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 [12/6/2015 8:30:47 PM] Hoeloe: has anyone made a pumpernickel boss?
 [12/6/2015 8:30:58 PM] Hoeloe: thinking of maybe doing so at some point
 [12/6/2015 8:31:18 PM] Wasabi: Wait I'll show you my idea, super quick sketch
 [12/6/2015 8:35:32 PM] Wasabi: http://imgur.com/TmkGgx7
 [12/6/2015 8:36:02 PM] Wasabi: pupil turns into mouth, legs turn into clawed arms
 [12/6/2015 8:36:40 PM] Wasabi: then floating or spidering around
 [12/6/2015 8:38:56 PM] Wasabi: but yeah just an idea
 [12/6/2015 8:39:13 PM] Hoeloe: I like the idea of his legs stretching and spidering about
 [12/6/2015 8:39:13 PM | Edited 8:39:25 PM] rockatrockabutt: That should totally be a second form
 [12/6/2015 8:39:40 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: a little One Winged Pumpernickel
 [12/6/2015 8:40:23 PM] Chaoxys _: I now want to hear a remix of sepheroth's theme but have it chant "pumpernickel" in the bg
 [12/6/2015 8:40:42 PM] Hoeloe: we should have original final boss music tho
 [12/6/2015 8:40:49 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: PUMP ER NICK
 [12/6/2015 8:40:57 PM] SAJewers: all the uncles and eow bosses should
 [12/6/2015 8:41:10 PM] Wasabi: original boss music that chants pumpernickel
 [12/6/2015 8:41:11 PM] Hoeloe: yeah
 [12/6/2015 8:41:16 PM] Rednaxela: [Sunday, December 6, 2015 8:39 PM] Hoeloe:
 
 <<< I like the idea of his legs stretching and spidering aboutI'm reminded of Mimi from one of the Paper Marios now
 [12/6/2015 8:41:16 PM] Hoeloe: yes
 [12/6/2015 8:41:23 PM] rockatrockabutt: PUUUUUUMP  EEEEER
 NIIIIICK EEEELLL
 DEEEEEENNNIIIISS
 [12/6/2015 8:41:29 PM] Wasabi: Yeah that was half the idea red haha
 [12/6/2015 8:42:06 PM] Wasabi: I really liked mimi's transformation
 [12/6/2015 8:42:59 PM] rockatrockabutt: I'm tempted to whip up a tune using a bunch of samples of other final boss themes
 [12/6/2015 8:44:18 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: we should totally have PUM•PER•NIC•KEL chanting in the background though
 [12/6/2015 8:44:22 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: of the song
 [12/6/2015 8:45:19 PM] rockatrockabutt: all the popular chanting and choir and timpani and orchestral stuff, sample all of it and use it to make some weird twisted kind of... like, I don't know the proper genre name
 
 Also halfway through it suddenly cuts to ragtime piano with an old-timey radio filter, and then from that to like death metal or something
 [12/6/2015 8:45:37 PM] Wasabi: omg yesssss
 [12/6/2015 8:45:41 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: that would be super neat
 [12/6/2015 8:45:44 PM] Wasabi: Chaotic Jukebox
 [12/6/2015 8:45:58 PM] Chaoxys _: Then make it into a dance remix for good messure
 [12/6/2015 8:46:13 PM] Wasabi: OMG
 [12/6/2015 8:46:17 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: oh rocky
 [12/6/2015 8:46:18 PM] Wasabi: Schroedinger's Jukebox
 [12/6/2015 8:46:22 PM | Edited 8:46:29 PM] rockatrockabutt: ya pichu?
 [12/6/2015 8:46:44 PM | Edited 8:46:50 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: you could use some sick electric guitar heavy metal chaotic solos as the transitioning section into the loop
 [12/6/2015 8:47:15 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: like it goes completely out of control
 [12/6/2015 8:47:19 PM] Wasabi: death metal ragtime is my favourite genre
 [12/6/2015 8:47:22 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: hahaha
 [12/6/2015 8:47:55 PM] Wasabi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tds0qoxWVss
 [12/6/2015 8:48:13 PM] Chaoxys _: I'm more of a ska/polka/heavy metal guy myself
 [12/6/2015 8:48:25 PM] Hoeloe: what we could do
 [12/6/2015 8:48:33 PM] Hoeloe: it have multiple people work on the track for pumpernickel
 [12/6/2015 8:48:46 PM] Hoeloe: like, everyone has distinct styles
 [12/6/2015 8:48:48 PM] Hoeloe: and so if we get people to do like a few instruments
 [12/6/2015 8:48:49 PM] Wasabi: omg yessss
 [12/6/2015 8:48:59 PM] Wasabi: that'd be so neat
 [12/6/2015 8:49:04 PM] Hoeloe: would have to be well managed though
 [12/6/2015 8:49:23 PM] Wasabi: I mean well you and rocky will do one
 [12/6/2015 8:49:27 PM] Chaoxys _: Would an acapella part be possible
 [12/6/2015 8:49:28 PM] rockatrockabutt: I'm all for that idea, but yeah, who'd get to do the ragtime part?
 [12/6/2015 8:49:29 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: I’m not great at music but I could attempt a thing
 [12/6/2015 8:49:29 PM] Wasabi: We just need other musicmaker peeps
 [12/6/2015 8:49:48 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: bwarch?
 [12/6/2015 8:50:02 PM] Wasabi: ragtime would be fun
 [12/6/2015 8:50:03 PM] rockatrockabutt: I'll ask him next chance I get
 [12/6/2015 8:50:16 PM] rockatrockabutt: which is right now
 [12/6/2015 8:52:01 PM] Wasabi: I'd do music but finding instruments and stuff seems like it'd be really hard
 [12/6/2015 8:54:29 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qSRRoUaMh6 attempting some kind of pandamona voice
 [12/6/2015 8:54:34 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: I
 [12/6/2015 8:54:38 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: hello enter key
 [12/6/2015 8:55:14 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: I’m going for a more nasally, sorta “little creature trying to sound evil” voice I guess?
 [12/6/2015 8:55:54 PM] Wasabi: it reminds me a lot of freedom planet for some reason
 [12/6/2015 8:58:00 PM] rockatrockabutt: Bwarch said no :c
 [12/6/2015 8:58:10 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: :(
 [12/6/2015 8:58:14 PM] Wasabi: awh dang
 [12/6/2015 8:58:16 PM] Chaoxys _: I like what you are going for, although I'm curious if you can make it a tad bit higher or maybe a bit shrill?
 [12/6/2015 8:58:34 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: sure thing
 [12/6/2015 8:58:44 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: shrill and high is my specialty™
 [12/6/2015 8:59:34 PM] Chaoxys _: Not sure if that would actually improve it, I'm just curious as I think it would fit with what you sound about her trying to sound evil.
 [12/6/2015 8:59:46 PM] SnoruntPyro: if you guys ever need hilariously bad singers I volunteer to voice that
 [12/6/2015 8:59:58 PM] Chaoxys _: Like when a tiny dog tries to sound tough, but has a sharp yap instead
 [12/6/2015 9:00:01 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: if you guys ever need regular singers I volunteer to voice that
 [12/6/2015 9:00:06 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: yeah I get what you’re saying
 [12/6/2015 9:00:33 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: I know of a character whose voice I’m thinking of but I can’t for the life of me remember their name
 [12/6/2015 9:00:39 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: or like anything about them
 [12/6/2015 9:00:42 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: I just remember the voice
 [12/6/2015 9:01:42 PM] rockatrockabutt: any lines of dialogue we could google or anything like that?
 [12/6/2015 9:01:59 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: oh you know what
 [12/6/2015 9:02:05 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: maybe I’m thinking of clown man?
 [12/6/2015 9:02:24 PM] SnoruntPyro: I could totally see panda with clown man's voice
 [12/6/2015 9:02:39 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: well it’s not what I was thinking of
 [12/6/2015 9:02:44 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: upon listening
 [12/6/2015 9:02:46 PM] rockatrockabutt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxOXGZ7aX6k
 [12/6/2015 9:02:47 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: but that would kinda work
 [12/6/2015 9:03:40 PM] rockatrockabutt: you know what clown man's voice reminded me of?
 [12/6/2015 9:03:41 PM] Chaoxys _: I think something like that would be fitting
 [12/6/2015 9:03:49 PM] rockatrockabutt: Sonic from that one OVA
 [12/6/2015 9:03:58 PM] rockatrockabutt: STRANGE, ISN'T IT
 [12/6/2015 9:04:18 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: yeeeahhhhh
 [12/6/2015 9:04:19 PM] Chaoxys _: It's weird. I've never watched the OVA, but I was going to guess "Sonic from the old cartoon"
 [12/6/2015 9:04:29 PM] Chaoxys _: One of the lines he said made me thing of sonic for some reason
 [12/6/2015 9:04:57 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: also I think I was thinking of MMPU Roll
 
 ...
 
 [12/7/2015 1:53:19 PM] Duvi: You missed Kood's pet's introduction, you missed how Pumpernickel and Broadsword leave the story and the EoW8 takes place in  the R.E.T.C.O.N.
 [12/7/2015 1:54:21 PM] Duvi: and you missed me fixing Frenzy Citadel
 [12/7/2015 1:54:32 PM] Duvi: so it's approved now, due to the changes
 [12/7/2015 1:55:01 PM] retchthehaycook: Not EOW8, but a true final level accessible from the hub after EOW8
 [12/7/2015 1:56:06 PM] retchthehaycook: Where the RETCON goes from a mini-hub area to a full-fledged level that has you going into the machine's inner workings to get to the core
 [12/7/2015 1:56:24 PM] SAJewers: couldn't that just be W9?
 [12/7/2015 1:57:00 PM] retchthehaycook: Isn't W9 supposed to be the postgame zebraspace or equivalent?
 [12/7/2015 1:57:05 PM] Duvi: the boss of W9 is Serac, too
 [12/7/2015 1:57:12 PM] SAJewers: W9 is a cannon world
 [12/7/2015 1:57:15 PM] Duvi: and she's supposed to appear in all 4 of the games
 [12/7/2015 1:58:03 PM] retchthehaycook: gimme a sec to quote the post
 [12/7/2015 2:00:20 PM | Edited 2:00:50 PM] retchthehaycook: You get back from W8 and suddenly there's alarms everyone's panicking.  You can go around the hub one last time, then you enter the RETCON as a level.
 
 The level starts with the same layout as the hub form but various branching sections previously accessible are blocked off by debris/lockdown security/some other thing, so you eventually have to move through the inner workings of the machine to get to the core, where Pumpernickel is fought in the raw chaos form Wasabi proposed further up.to sum up the rest, you get the ending where Broadsword sacrifices himself to save the krew, leaving him and pumpernickel trapped in a pocket of spacetime but Demo and company are safe and the universe isn't destroyed.  Roll credits, reload save file, move on to W9
 [12/7/2015 2:01:20 PM] Duvi: and Serac now doesn't just hate you
 [12/7/2015 2:01:23 PM] Duvi: she DESPISES you
 [12/7/2015 2:01:32 PM] Duvi: her only mission in life becomes to avenge her husband
 [12/7/2015 2:01:38 PM] SAJewers: i thought we planned for Broadsword to be part of the main cast in Ep3?
 [12/7/2015 2:01:46 PM] SAJewers: and how does W9 fit into all this?
 [12/7/2015 2:01:55 PM] Duvi: Serac's torture realm
-[12/7/2015 11:34:51 PM] Wasabi: I'd assume it'd be in/near enough to the machine to do your idea
+
 [12/7/2015 2:02:40 PM] Duvi: turns out this device is a lie
 [12/7/2015 2:03:05 PM] Duvi: but she traps the main cast in an attempt to put them through the exact pain her husband is going through that very moment
 [12/7/2015 2:04:07 PM] Duvi: of course, you guys beat up serac, escape somehow, roll final final credits, get post-postgame stuff, end of episode 2
 [12/7/2015 2:04:20 PM] SAJewers: and how does this set up Ep3?
 [12/7/2015 2:06:32 PM] Duvi: So what I imagine is, Serac has a prototype of Wind's stasis device and attempts to freeze the main cast in time
 [12/7/2015 2:07:00 PM | Edited 2:07:15 PM] retchthehaycook: Whatever happens, it should involve Papi Earthquake as the last chicken wing
 [12/7/2015 2:12:02 PM] Duvi: and I imagine Serac having stolen this prototype from Grandpa Wind before it's complete because, hey, she only needs to freeze THESE goons in time
 [12/7/2015 2:12:43 PM] Duvi: so basically, after you beat her up, Wind comes in, angrily takes it back, spits a fireball at her, and leaves
 [12/7/2015 2:20:50 PM] Duvi: So as for the Elder and Uncle designs, I like all of them but one, and it's the one raocow famously had no opinions on
 [12/7/2015 2:21:56 PM] Duvi: Pumpernickel's design doesn't really fit the character we set up, the visual theme of any of the cyclopes, and it doesn't exactly look that good
 [12/7/2015 2:21:59 PM] SAJewers: the main thing I'm concerned with is how W9 fits into Ep2's plot
 [12/7/2015 2:22:15 PM] SAJewers: and how it will give us a starting point for Ep3
 [12/7/2015 2:22:48 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: you are beginning to be punished for your ep2 hubris
 [12/7/2015 2:22:57 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: that's what w9 does
 [12/7/2015 2:23:01 PM] Duvi: That's easy, SAJ
 [12/7/2015 2:23:23 PM] Duvi: Serac is trying to torment the main cast on their way to finishing them off, and she's using a device she stole from Wind
 [12/7/2015 2:23:34 PM] Chaoxys _: Wait, I just realized, I've never even seen pumpernickle's design. Is it really that unfitting?
 [12/7/2015 2:23:44 PM] retchthehaycook: http://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.php?t=13539&start=1025#p223230
 [12/7/2015 2:23:51 PM] Duvi: Pumpernickel is kind of like a headless turtle with a ruby on his back?
 [12/7/2015 2:24:07 PM] Duvi: it's super unfitting imho
 [12/7/2015 2:24:26 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: the ruby is the eye
 [12/7/2015 2:24:34 PM] Duvi: yeah I gathered that much
 [12/7/2015 2:24:46 PM] Duvi: OH
 [12/7/2015 2:24:52 PM] Duvi: I thought it was in a glass case
 [12/7/2015 2:24:57 PM] Duvi: like Science's eyeball
 [12/7/2015 2:25:25 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: it may well be, but let's say it's a sclera
 [12/7/2015 2:25:30 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: actually let's keep it ambiguous
 [12/7/2015 2:26:00 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: sclera sclera sclera
 [12/7/2015 2:26:07 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: English has so many specific words
 [12/7/2015 2:26:08 PM] Duvi: Like, I'd be willing to do all the spritework for a different design of Pumpernickel
 [12/7/2015 2:26:09 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: I like them a lot
 [12/7/2015 2:26:12 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: wish I knew them
 [12/7/2015 2:26:16 PM] retchthehaycook: http://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14371&p=242644&hilit=pumpernickel#p242644
 [12/7/2015 2:26:35 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: oh
 [12/7/2015 2:26:36 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: huh
 [12/7/2015 2:26:45 PM] retchthehaycook: http://talkhaus.raocow.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=14371&hilit=pumpernickel&start=825#p319329
 [12/7/2015 2:26:45 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: you made pumpernickel's feet be that way
 [12/7/2015 2:26:56 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: I assumed he was kind of wide and facing forwards in that picture
 [12/7/2015 2:27:02 PM] Chaoxys _: http://i.imgur.com/4pjieV8.png
 [12/7/2015 2:27:07 PM | Edited 2:27:12 PM] retchthehaycook: yeah, only realizing now that I may have misinterpreted the image :D
 [12/7/2015 2:28:50 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: anyway, I say staying true to raocow's design is like... important
 [12/7/2015 2:29:08 PM] retchthehaycook: yeah
 [12/7/2015 2:29:28 PM] Duvi: yeah, but 1: he doesn't think so
 2: he specifically doesn't care about Pumpernickel
 and 3: pumpernickel looks JANK
 [12/7/2015 2:29:34 PM] retchthehaycook: except now I know my interpretation isn't completely true to it either >_<
 [12/7/2015 2:30:31 PM] Chaoxys _: Honestly, I like the concept for his design, but I think it could use some tweaking
 [12/7/2015 2:30:37 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: 2. he didn't give him a personality writeup, true
 3. big lebowski quote I think
 [12/7/2015 2:31:40 PM] Duvi: alright, so unless we're gonna argue "because original design" because it's not like every other ABCD was raocow's design
 [12/7/2015 2:31:57 PM] Duvi: I propose we either scrap or retool Pumpernickel
 [12/7/2015 2:32:08 PM] Duvi: and if need be, I'll do 100% of the spritework
 [12/7/2015 2:32:23 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: I'm against that notion
 [12/7/2015 2:32:34 PM] SAJewers: let's stick with what raocow gave us
 [12/7/2015 2:32:52 PM] Chaoxys _: Why not ask raocow's opinion on the matter?
 [12/7/2015 2:33:02 PM] retchthehaycook: I'll ask raocow through PM or patreon if he could whip up new reference images of pumpernickel- yeah, was just saying that
 [12/7/2015 2:33:10 PM] retchthehaycook: from different angles and stuff
 [12/7/2015 2:33:14 PM] Duvi: he'd probably answer "I have no opinions on that dude"
 [12/7/2015 2:33:22 PM] retchthehaycook: still worth a try
 [12/7/2015 2:33:27 PM] SAJewers: IMO what he drew is what we go with
 [12/7/2015 2:34:18 PM | Edited 2:34:24 PM] retchthehaycook: but we're not 100% clear on how to interpret what he drew
 [12/7/2015 2:34:54 PM] Hoeloe: I always saw him as wide
 [12/7/2015 2:35:25 PM] Hoeloe: like a big wide turtle thing with an eye on top
 [12/7/2015 2:35:56 PM] SAJewers: looks to me in that reference image they're all facing front
 [12/7/2015 2:36:19 PM | Edited 2:36:35 PM] retchthehaycook: yeah, that was a stupid mistake on my part when making the cinematX sprites
 [12/7/2015 2:37:09 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: so it seems I agree with Hoeloe
 [12/7/2015 2:37:11 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: alright
 [12/7/2015 2:37:42 PM] Hoeloe: I think pumpernickel would look good sort of side on - but maybe a little smaller than in rocky's sprite - less long at least
 [12/7/2015 2:38:47 PM] retchthehaycook: so if those aren't back legs, what are they?
 [12/7/2015 2:38:59 PM] Hoeloe: oh I think they are back legs
 [12/7/2015 2:39:00 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: they are?
 [12/7/2015 2:39:21 PM] Hoeloe: pumpernickel is a quadruped turtle thing with a big eye on top
 [12/7/2015 2:39:23 PM] Hoeloe: in my view
 [12/7/2015 2:39:25 PM] retchthehaycook: that was part of duvi's objection to his design
 [12/7/2015 2:39:29 PM] SAJewers: he's like Science
 [12/7/2015 2:39:41 PM] retchthehaycook: yeah, he could be a UFO or something
 [12/7/2015 2:40:13 PM | Edited 2:40:25 PM] retchthehaycook: which is why I think we should try asking raocow for another image at a different angle or something
 [12/7/2015 2:40:24 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/00/8f/52/008f52f7dc2ae27006b9dbda17d3d386.jpg
 [12/7/2015 2:40:44 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: my proposal is to keep the dome status inconsistent
 [12/7/2015 2:40:54 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: sometimes it's sclera, sometimes it's glass
 [12/7/2015 2:41:04 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: part of his whatever ability he has
 
 ...
 
 [12/7/2015 7:17:52 PM | Edited 7:18:10 PM] retchthehaycook: So I PMed raocow about Pumpernickel and this was the response:
 
 "He's basically a big headless turtle with like an eye sticking out of the top"
 [12/7/2015 7:18:47 PM] retchthehaycook: and also awesome job, chaoxys
 [12/7/2015 7:19:13 PM] Wasabi: So you were right with your design rocky
 [12/7/2015 7:19:27 PM] ♀Lily {Pichu}: that is awesome
 [12/7/2015 7:19:31 PM] Wasabi: 4 legs ahoy!
 [12/7/2015 7:20:06 PM] Chaoxys _: Now I want to design him standing like gamera for fun
 [12/7/2015 7:20:15 PM] retchthehaycook: I was right in that he has 4 legs, wrong in that it's not a glass dome around a jewel and he's wide, not long
 [12/7/2015 7:20:32 PM] Wasabi: Oh I thought it was an eye
 [12/7/2015 7:20:36 PM] Wasabi: in your sprite
 [12/7/2015 7:21:47 PM] Wasabi: It looks like one
 [12/7/2015 7:22:48 PM] retchthehaycook: I s'pose it does, but even so I'm going to need to make some tweaks
 
 ...
 [12/7/2015 11:30:00 PM | Edited 11:30:28 PM] retchthehaycook: Also, may I suggest that Demo and company have to return to the RETCON after each world in order to progress the story and open up the next world?  On one hand, it could get repetitive, but on the other the final level being the RETCON itself would be part of a pattern, and it could tie into the worlds split up into two parts.
 [12/7/2015 11:30:09 PM] retchthehaycook: Perhaps the krew returns from the city/factory world early and come back to learn Rewind had stolen a crucial component of the RETCON, so then they need to go to the second half of the wait a second that's world 7 now nvm
 [12/7/2015 11:33:01 PM] Wasabi: well yeah it's the hub town
 [12/7/2015 11:33:12 PM] Wasabi: I thought we already talked about that?
 [12/7/2015 11:33:16 PM] retchthehaycook: I thought the RETCON was a separate mini-hub area
 [12/7/2015 11:33:25 PM] Wasabi: It's like the spaceship
 [12/7/2015 11:33:38 PM] retchthehaycook: with the main hub being the Chronotron town/city around it
 [12/7/2015 11:33:38 PM] Wasabi: Well it's chronotown with RETCON in it
 [12/7/2015 11:33:39 PM] retchthehaycook: ah
 [12/7/2015 11:33:43 PM] retchthehaycook: yeah
 [12/7/2015 11:33:44 PM] Wasabi: But you'd arrive through retcon
 [12/7/2015 11:33:46 PM] Wasabi: Cause
 [12/7/2015 11:33:50 PM] Wasabi: that's the time thing
 [12/7/2015 11:34:11 PM | Edited 11:34:36 PM] retchthehaycook: ah, okay, I figured there'd be a separate spacetime portal
 [12/7/2015 11:34:26 PM] retchthehaycook: maybe nearby, but not part of the machine itself
 [12/7/2015 11:34:51 PM] Wasabi: I'd assume it'd be in/near enough to the machine to do your idea
 
 ...
 
 [1/2/2016 7:02:49 PM] raucouschao: Hoeloe, since you're doing the w8 Pumpernickel battle will you be doing the final battle as well?
 [1/2/2016 7:03:04 PM] SAJewers: ...that is the final battle?
 [1/2/2016 7:03:48 PM] raucouschao: there's going to be the final level in the R.E.T.C.O.N. after W8
 [1/2/2016 7:04:01 PM] SAJewers: ???
 [1/2/2016 7:04:28 PM] SAJewers: I don't recall any of this
 [1/2/2016 7:04:52 PM] FrozenQuills: I think the story page mentioned this
 [1/2/2016 7:05:39 PM] SAJewers: well, what I'm working on this is basically the final level
 [1/2/2016 7:05:54 PM] SAJewers: like "final level" in ep1
 [1/2/2016 7:06:55 PM] raucouschao: http://pastebin.com/HVZfradz
 [1/2/2016 7:06:58 PM] SAJewers: could we not make the retcon thing world 9's castle?
 [1/2/2016 7:07:36 PM] raucouschao: ...wait, wrong chat logs, sorry
 [1/2/2016 7:08:15 PM] raucouschao: hm, maybe I didn't archive that particular discussion
 [1/2/2016 7:08:31 PM] raucouschao: but it was mentioned in the forum
 [1/2/2016 7:08:41 PM] raucouschao: and brought up a few times after that
 [1/2/2016 7:08:41 PM] SAJewers: I do not recall this at all
 [1/2/2016 7:10:08 PM] FrozenQuills: http://asmbxt.wikia.com/wiki/Story/A2XT_Episode_2#R.E.T.C.O.N.
 [1/2/2016 7:10:35 PM] FrozenQuills: this was discussed in the chat a few weeks ago
 [1/2/2016 7:10:41 PM] FrozenQuills: I forget if SA was there
 [1/2/2016 7:11:40 PM] Hoeloe: it was discussed a few times and i'm pretty sure SA was there for at least one of them
 [1/2/2016 7:12:01 PM] SAJewers: well, i was not planning around that
 [1/2/2016 7:12:38 PM] raucouschao: You edited the story page to remove all instances of "krew", you should've seen that stuff at the time.  And you asked about it when it was brought up one time, and I quoted a previous post about it.
 [1/2/2016 7:12:48 PM] raucouschao: http://pastebin.com/YCreDw4v
 [1/2/2016 7:13:46 PM] SAJewers: i was just spellchecking, not actually reading it
 [1/2/2016 7:14:06 PM] Hoeloe: still there was that chatlog where this entire thing was discussed with you present
 [1/2/2016 7:14:18 PM] raucouschao: which I just posted
 [1/2/2016 7:14:42 PM] SAJewers: i do not remember that at all
 [1/2/2016 7:14:47 PM] SAJewers: odd
 [1/2/2016 7:15:12 PM] Hoeloe: the idea was basically that you have a pumpernickel w8 boss, then return to the hub, which doubles as a mini level itself before a second phase endboss
 [1/2/2016 7:15:31 PM] Hoeloe: it's all part of the same sequence, really
 [1/2/2016 7:15:41 PM] SAJewers: oh, ok then
 [1/2/2016 7:15:45 PM] Hoeloe: just tied into the overall plot in a cool way
 [1/2/2016 7:15:51 PM] SAJewers: so this changes very little then of what i was doing
 [1/2/2016 7:15:58 PM] Hoeloe: yeah, more or less
 [1/2/2016 7:16:14 PM | Edited 7:16:25 PM] raucouschao: Yeah, we can still have like a Bowser's/King Charles' final castle-type level as the EOW8 level
 [1/2/2016 7:16:15 PM] SAJewers: the idea i was going for was akin to ASMT's final castle
 [1/2/2016 7:16:31 PM] SAJewers: ok, good then
 [1/2/2016 7:16:33 PM] Hoeloe: it's basically just rather than fighting pumpernickel at the EOW8 level and the game being done, you fight him there, then get a second round afterwards with a more dramatic conclusion
 [1/2/2016 7:16:39 PM] FrozenQuills: [Saturday, January 2, 2016 7:16 PM] SAJewers:
 
 <<< the idea i was going for was akin to ASMT's final castlethat'd be rad
 [1/2/2016 7:16:46 PM] FrozenQuills: I was thinking the same
 [1/2/2016 7:16:50 PM] SnoruntPyro: oh, does this mean the whole castle will be a massive colab relay thing?
 [1/2/2016 7:16:54 PM] SnoruntPyro: that would be awesome
 [1/2/2016 7:16:55 PM] SAJewers: i have it mostly done up, just doing my screen now
 [1/2/2016 7:16:57 PM] SAJewers: yeah
 [1/2/2016 7:17:07 PM] SAJewers: 3 floors, 4 doors each, 1 person per door
 [1/2/2016 7:17:08 PM] SnoruntPyro: should we make a talkhaus thread for this?
 [1/2/2016 7:17:12 PM] SAJewers: like asmt/a2mt
 [1/2/2016 7:17:37 PM] SAJewers: yeah, I'll make one in a bit
 [1/2/2016 7:17:45 PM] Hoeloe: the way I see the final "level" thing in the hub going is literally just turning up in the hub to find it all chaos, with some talking NPCs, and you just walk up to the RETCON, enter a door, and you're straight into the boss
 [1/2/2016 7:18:03 PM] SAJewers: probably make it for all boss levels, to keep it separate from the bosses themselves
 [1/2/2016 7:18:05 PM] Hoeloe: the transition solely there to tie the story into the gameplay itself in a cool way
 [1/2/2016 7:18:15 PM] SAJewers: ok cool
 [1/2/2016 7:18:33 PM] raucouschao: straight to the boss?  I was thinking it'd be one last level through the inner workings of the RETCON
 [1/2/2016 7:18:36 PM] FrozenQuills: will the castle "sections" be individual level files?
 [1/2/2016 7:18:47 PM] Hoeloe: and the whole "broadsword saving the day and being trapped in a pocket universe with pumpernickel" happens within the RETCON
 [1/2/2016 7:18:47 PM] SAJewers: no, individual sections
 [1/2/2016 7:18:52 PM] Hoeloe: we could do that rocky
 [1/2/2016 7:19:03 PM] FrozenQuills: it might make collaboration a bit easier if that was allowed but ok
 [1/2/2016 7:19:06 PM] Hoeloe: I don't honestly know which would work better
 [1/2/2016 7:19:16 PM] SnoruntPyro: the final level should be in space, like a space castle, to climax the sky world
 [1/2/2016 7:19:17 PM] Hoeloe: I feel like it would lose some of the tension to have a full level in the middle
 [1/2/2016 7:19:28 PM] raucouschao: It could be a short level
 [1/2/2016 7:19:29 PM] SAJewers: pyro: got the intro set up already
 [1/2/2016 7:19:41 PM] Hoeloe: i mean, you're still pumped up from phase one, don't want to lose the pace
 [1/2/2016 7:19:44 PM] SAJewers: rocky: maybe do something like the computer sublevel in asmt's final castle
 [1/2/2016 7:19:46 PM] SnoruntPyro: well you can change the background to a space background
 [1/2/2016 7:20:05 PM] SnoruntPyro: also i agree with hoeloe here
 [1/2/2016 7:20:18 PM] raucouschao: yeah, the way I imagined it, he's literally tearing through the machine to get to the core
 [1/2/2016 7:20:34 PM] raucouschao: You enter the level through the hole he tore in the side of it
 [1/2/2016 7:20:36 PM] Hoeloe: yeah, but there is also such a thing as "too much"
 [1/2/2016 7:20:48 PM] raucouschao: and that's a fair concern
 [1/2/2016 7:20:49 PM] Hoeloe: if there weren't a world 8 castle i'd be 100% on board
 [1/2/2016 7:20:59 PM] Hoeloe: but since we've already established that there is
 [1/2/2016 7:21:07 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: so yeah, short level section in between
 [1/2/2016 7:21:17 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: some torn-up machine
 [1/2/2016 7:21:18 PM] raucouschao: I'm not saying "this is the way it has to be", just elaborating on the original idea
 [1/2/2016 7:21:18 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: or
 [1/2/2016 7:21:23 PM] Hoeloe: a short level, maybe autoscroll or with a time limit idk
 [1/2/2016 7:21:24 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: or
 [1/2/2016 7:21:29 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: Maybe design it like
 [1/2/2016 7:21:34 PM] Hoeloe: it has to maintain the tension, which would be hard
 [1/2/2016 7:21:47 PM] Hoeloe: if we can't keep the tension very high, then it's best not to have anything there at all
 [1/2/2016 7:21:51 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: "this would have been a much longer level, but it has had a big hole torn through it which makes for a shortcut"
 [1/2/2016 7:22:24 PM] SAJewers: maybe something like these sublevels from asmt? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x25LlloXMaM
 [1/2/2016 7:23:04 PM] Hoeloe: idk i feel like it needs to be incredibly tense
 [1/2/2016 7:23:07 PM] SnoruntPyro: did you choose the music for the w8 castle yet, sajewers?
 [1/2/2016 7:23:10 PM] Hoeloe: most levels aren't?
 [1/2/2016 7:23:11 PM] SAJewers: yep
 [1/2/2016 7:23:25 PM] Hoeloe: autoscroll or a timer would help with that as it adds pressure
 [1/2/2016 7:23:52 PM] SAJewers: main reason why i'm starting this, i found maybe the perfect song for a final level
 [1/2/2016 7:24:44 PM] Hoeloe: i'm not saying we shouldn't have a level btw
 [1/2/2016 7:24:54 PM] Hoeloe: just that if we do, we need to be VERY careful not to kill the pacing
 [1/2/2016 7:24:59 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: it just needs to be a fitting one
 [1/2/2016 7:25:04 PM] SAJewers: i don't care either way
 [1/2/2016 7:28:09 PM] raucouschao: some ideas:
 - Minimal actual danger, but elements that convey a sense of urgency like the alarms, visible damage, scripted events like stuff falling in the foreground tense music, etc.
 - maybe the usual entrances of some of the rooms of the RETCON hub are blocked off by rubble or a security system something, but Pumpernickel tears new entrances through the walls, so the path to the core includes one or more sections of the hub during the level
 [1/2/2016 7:28:31 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: I like these
 [1/2/2016 7:28:34 PM] Hoeloe: definitely on the last point
 [1/2/2016 7:28:53 PM] Hoeloe: the ending sequence of Fable (the original) is a good reference for that
 [1/2/2016 7:29:05 PM] Hoeloe: the first point could be done too
 [1/2/2016 7:36:31 PM | Edited 7:36:52 PM] raucouschao: And as for the final battle, which sparked this whole discussion, the idea was that Pumpernickel would have a new, more chaotic form.  Maybe he's feeding on the time energy from the RETCON's core, or his outer shell was damaged in the EOW8 fight and what's left is a heart of pure chaotic energy, or he changes form simply because he felt like it/because he can/because he thought the game needed a more climactic final battle, or something.
 
 iirc Wasabi proposed a design, and I think he and Duvi were going to work on it.
 [1/2/2016 7:38:17 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: oh man
 [1/2/2016 7:38:28 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: Duvi actually getting to redesign Pumpernickel
 [1/2/2016 7:38:30 PM] Maciej B. // Minnakht: everyone is happy
 [1/2/2016 7:41:48 PM] raucouschao: Not sure what the status is on that though
 [1/2/2016 7:48:54 PM | Edited 7:50:08 PM] raucouschao: http://imgur.com/TmkGgx7
 
 This was it
 [1/2/2016 7:48:55 PM] SAJewers: while we're at it, who has claimed which boss and who has claimed which boss level?
 [1/2/2016 7:49:15 PM] FrozenQuills: we probably need a post/new thread for that
 [1/2/2016 7:49:30 PM] SAJewers: Gonna make a post in the boss thread
 [1/2/2016 7:50:02 PM] SAJewers: or should we have separate threads for each boss?
 [1/2/2016 7:50:45 PM] raucouschao: Separate threads for each boss would help keep discussion more organized
 [1/2/2016 7:51:30 PM] SAJewers: ok, then whoever's claimed a boso, make a thread
 [1/2/2016 7:51:49 PM] SAJewers: boss*
 [1/2/2016 8:13:18 PM] Wasabi: Hrmmm
 [1/2/2016 8:18:43 PM] raucouschao: Hey, wasabi!  You and duvi still working on the graphics for Pump's final form?
 [1/2/2016 8:20:25 PM] Wasabi: Heya
 [1/2/2016 8:20:45 PM] Wasabi: I have no idea, I thought that was duvi hating his normal form and wanting to change it
 [1/2/2016 8:21:20 PM] Wasabi: My hrmm is in relation to the W2 boss
 [1/2/2016 8:22:19 PM] raucouschao: he did, then when he was asking if there was any spritework or anything he could do I told him you were working on Pump's final form and he seemed to be interested in helping you with that
 [1/2/2016 8:22:53 PM] Wasabi: Ohhh okay cool I'm down with that then :)
 [1/2/2016 8:26:05 PM | Edited 8:26:33 PM] raucouschao: That said, it'd be cool if you guys could work particles and/or openGL poly stuff into the design.  Probably won't be able to make him completely out of programmed effects since I believe we still can't layer ogl stuff with the player/NPCs, but yeah
 [1/2/2016 8:26:46 PM] Wasabi: I mean if he's fighting Broadsword that's not a big deal
 [1/2/2016 8:27:54 PM] SAJewers: question: is broadsword v pumpernickel in w8 or at retcon?
 [1/2/2016 8:28:02 PM] Wasabi: Retcon
 [1/2/2016 8:28:48 PM] Hoeloe: btw, i gave spinjumps a trail for fun and thought it looked cool
 [1/2/2016 8:28:49 PM] Hoeloe: http://i.imgur.com/7MMtUzi.webm
 [1/2/2016 8:29:23 PM] raucouschao: I agree with that opinion
 [1/2/2016 8:29:38 PM] Hoeloe: doesn't mean broadsword can't be involved in the w8 level
 [1/2/2016 8:29:58 PM] Hoeloe: but just not the main focus - and should sweep in at the end as a heroic "GO SAVE YOURSELVES!" moment