<Jroksl> I was at Twitch and a discussion about Feminism was brought up and then they claimed that "Fake Feminists control games" "Christina Hoff Sommers is a true feminists" "We already achieved equality" "Anita Saarkasian is a fraud and if she disabled comments then there's something fishy about her" and such
<Jroksl> First of all, who is Christina Hoff Somers?
<Jroksl> fuzzyhorns, jacobian Lee- LennyKitty morganq tristan3 ArrowLance morganq IRIXUser Astarte modulus
<morganq> what
<morganq> why do yo uwant me to explain anti-feminists to you?
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<Jroksl> Well I never 'heard' of her (or maybe I've seen her name somewhere but I don't remember) till now
<morganq> i dunno bud
<morganq> i was reading stormfront today and i saw people talking about race and they said some people were race traitors and that all sub-humans deserve to die
<morganq> Jroksl, Jroksl pls explain
<Jroksl> So she's another one of those anti-feminist tools? and the guy there said "She's a woman for you"...manipulative shitheads
<Jroksl> Well...thing is I don't visit stormfront but when I go to Twitch streams or game forums, this shit is almost unavoidable
<fuzzyhorns> what's going on
<LennyKitty> Thats why I dont hang around the gaming community
<Jroksl> Like as if the entire gaming community is the Stormfront equlivent for women
<LennyKitty> If I do its with lets players streams of people who dont talk or allow politics or are not reactionary
<morganq> the gaming community isn't as bad as stormfront. i would say it's about half as bad
<Astarte> the gaming community is as bad as your average white north american male
<telmac> Astarte: that's probably not true
<morganq> no, it's definitely worse
<Astarte> ok
<riddim> gaming "community"
<riddim> and that hoff summers fool is just an anti feminist conservative who claims 2 b feminist and liberal so she can say bigoted shit
<riddim> she's employed by the heritage foundation if that gives u a clue
<riddim> basically she's like a house slave claiming that slavery's ok that all the white ppl use as a figurehead
<Jroksl> and worse they even claim "We already reached equality"
<riddim> just reactionaries being reactionary dude, don't put 2 much weight in what they have 2 say
<Jroksl> and they claim "Fake Feminists exist"
<riddim> y would u listen 2 a gamer about feminism anyway lol, that's like asking a capitalist his opinion on communism
<Jroksl> I guess it's not worth reasoning with them
<riddim> gamergate is good enough reason 2 abandon these fools, they're just a hate group at this point
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<diegoviola> most governments are marxist these days right? except a few (USA, etc)
<diegoviola> is that correct?
<Jroksl> riddim: speaking of GamerGate this post had troubled me is there any refuation of this?: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?p=789956#p789956
<GameOver> Title: ZDoom View topic - Gamergate discussion. (at forum.zdoom.org)
<riddim> r u trolling dude
<Jroksl> No I'm not
<diegoviola> riddim: me? nope
<riddim> gamergate has nothing 2 do w ethics in game journalism lol
<Jroksl> Well I mean there's something else in that post that bothered me about "Ethan" and such
<Jroksl> or anything else in that post
<riddim> diego there is no marxist gov really left, arguments can b made 4 cuba and china tho
<diegoviola> riddim: do you know Brazil?
<diegoviola> riddim: and PT (Worker's Party)?
<diegoviola> they're marxists, afaik
<riddim> they're revisionist afaik
<riddim> there may b marxists in the party tho
<Jroksl> riddim: well never mind
<riddim> jroksl i'm reading that forum post
<Jroksl> okay
<Jroksl> So, what do you have to say about it?
<riddim> the guy w the nordic shit who claims 2 b ml is a joke
<riddim> "i also believe in mixing it w capitalism"
<riddim> fuck that dude
<coluna_gabriel> diego there are some marxists in PT
<coluna_gabriel> but PT is one among more than 10 parties forming the government
<coluna_gabriel> the only left parties in government are pt and pc do b, there others are all bourgeois
<riddim> dude this is just some reactionary rhetoric here jroksl, what r u having an issue w?
<riddim> game journalism has always been a joke and still is but harassing women and allying themselves w hardcore conservatives, outright nazis, and sending death threats 2 random women does nothing 2 help it
<Jroksl> riddim: Well the other things like "regardless of Eran's intent in going public about Zoe. Eran isn't the movement's leader, and his intent does not necessarily reflect what the movement is about." and "
<Jroksl> Incidentally, I've seen an increase in the number of video game related articles where the writer mentions if they personally know or have financial ties to subjects in the article. So in a sense, gamergate is, slowly, doing what it's out to do."
<Jroksl> Which I wonder if there's any refuation of these points at all?
<riddim> gamergate even recently allied w jack thompson, the lawyer who tried 2 ban violent games, and was disbarred 4 being so unethical
<riddim> how hypocritical can they get
<Jroksl> Yeah I guess that throws their "Ethics" claim out of the window there
<riddim> jroksl gamergate inflates every thing they possibly can 2 seem like they're doing something. recently their biggest victory, getting intel 2 pull ads from some game site, got pulled out from under the…
<riddim> …m as intel brought the ads back
<riddim> they're collapsing in on themselves, and honestly it's pretty funny 2 watch outside of the anti feminism and death threats
<Jroksl> So they haven't done much anyways? I think all it is protecting the status quo
<riddim> many previous leaders have left and denounced it as a failure and esp w that jack thompson shit the mental gymnastics they have 2 do 2 justify their bs is insane
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<riddim> yeah it's just neckbeards mad that women r in games now and ppl r critiqing some games as art, and w that comes some harsh realizations
<riddim> look who they attack, not the corrupt journalists, but mainly female devs and ppl who aren't journalists or devs like anita sarkessian
<Jroksl> Which shows their motives there
<Jroksl> I guess GamerGate is a bunch of neckbeards who have a imaginary "Golden Age of Gaming" that never really existed
<Jroksl> Just like real reactionaries...like they are
<Jroksl> Because they envision that games are "for white males like them"
<riddim> they've gotten support from many outright neo nazis, reactionaries of all stripes r using this as a recruiting tool
<riddim> obv u c this w the cultural marxist bs
<Jroksl> Well for one thing, our society insitutionlizes the gender/racial/etc binaries which is what it's all coming from
<Jroksl> Because I realize the binaries seperate the ones who own and control and have privledge and those who do not (women, PoC, etc)
<Jroksl> *the means of production
<Jroksl> riddim: I wonder if there's any feminist streamers or anyone that points out and makes fun of the sexism/racism/etc in the games?
<riddim> anita ofc lol
<Jroksl> Well I know her though
<Jroksl> of course I wonder if there's others on Twitch for example
<Jroksl> or Hitbox
<Jroksl> or maybe there aren't none for a very good reason?
<Jroksl> but if so, then it's pretty bad
<riddim> i really don't care about modern games, last game i bought was mgs4
<riddim> but this gamergate bs just pisses me off
<riddim> i hope we can c a progressive element in gaming come out of all this
<riddim> or reactionary bs in the mainstream can b stopped 4 good
<Jroksl> Well sadly, being pessmatic I am I don't see any of those happening because the reactionaries have too much power and plus they're part of the status quo which they'll fiercly protect
<Jroksl> Since if you ever noticed, women are leaving the gaming industry and not only that also engineering which is bad news
<Jroksl> Not to mention I've read to many accounts of women being chased out and lost interest of game making
<Jroksl> Which any of those are not helping making the future of gaming being progressive
<riddim> i think these reactionaries can only hold back progress 4 so long. society as a whole is getting less socially regressive
<riddim> this will have 2 b reflected in popular media or it will begin 2 die off
<Jroksl> That's funny, I thought society is actually getting more and more regressive or rather it stayed the same that way for hundreds of years
<Jroksl> rather I think "regressive" "progressive" terms should be abannonded but instead look what our society is predominated with that causes it in the first place
<Jroksl> in order to change society for example, then you pretty much have to be a iconclast or something
<Jroksl> I mean you have to change the entire superstructure of society itself
<riddim> economically we're getting more regressive 4sure
<riddim> but ppl r def less racist or bigoted against gays 4 example than they were 20 years ago
<Jroksl> Maybe that's what causing it because the reactionaries are getting 'richer'?
<Jroksl> But homophobia still exists
<riddim> there r definitely more ppl becoming extreme in their reaction
<Jroksl> Of course we should focus on one country as well
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<Jroksl> *shouldn't focus on one country I mean
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<Jroksl> When you talk about being 'progressive' and such since what really matters is the society's superstructure (for example, the US and the West are deeply rooted in Christianity
<Jroksl> which is where 90% of our troubles come from
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<Jroksl> Just like Iran is predominated/rooted in Islam hence the hijabs, and such
<Jroksl> or Saudi Arabia
<Jroksl> for examples
<riddim> don't blame this all on religion
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<Jroksl> Since the point is that reforms don't work which often attributed to "progressivness" but if you take to abortion/pro-choice into account in the United States especially state laws passing abortion resrictions and the possible threat of Roe vs Wade being repealed, it shows that they're not permanantly guareented which is my argument comes from that "progressive" doesn't really exist
<Jroksl> Since rather it comes from what the United States for example is predomianted with and also how it's system is set up
<Jroksl> For example the "Liberal & Conservative" defination in the US falls under a christian basis
<Jroksl> Well what I mean what is "liberal" in the US is "Conserative" in a another
<ziggy-prime> WTF am I reading
* ziggy-prime stares in disgust at the channel backspit
<Jroksl> hrm
<Jroksl> Well my main point that "Conservatives" are really trying to uphold the superstructure of what society is founded under (US being Protestant christianity for example)
<Jroksl> Hence the GOP's main ideology is
<Jroksl> While the "Liberals" (Democrats) are just trying to do "reforms" or "modicafitions" to our already "established" society
<Jroksl> If I'm getting all of this right
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<ziggy-prime> what is the democrats are reforming?
<uf> Hi
<ziggy-prime> hi
<uf> I'm going to a protest tomorrow :D
<ziggy-prime> why
<Jroksl> riddim: Well it appears to me that it all comes from religion but enlighten me if you think otherwise
<uf> My government wants to cut funding to the state broadcaster
<ziggy-prime> what government is that?
<Jroksl> Since everything has a string of where things come from
<uf> the current government is neo-liberal
<uf> the liberal party of australia
<uf> they are center right according to wikipedia
<ziggy-prime> have fun at the demo
<uf> anyhow lots of unions are coming
<uf> not just students but workers too
<ziggy-prime> Thats nice
<ziggy-prime> how novel
<uf> and union staff
<uf> well the unions aren't quite as left as the students
<uf> but the students are happy to join in the rally
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<riddim> jroksl capitalism couldn't function if it followed the abrahamic religions word 4 word. usury being banned and all
<uf> Islam bans usury too
<uf> but the Torah doesn't
<uf> Jews can charge interset
<riddim> torah does 4 other jews
<uf> interest*
<uf> ah non jews can't be charged interest?
<Jroksl> riddim: Well then again, I heard that the Protestant model of Christianity was the origin of modern day capitalism
<riddim> afaik jews aren't supposed 2 do usury 2 ppl of their own tribe
<uf> reformers will reform
<Jroksl> like Puritianism and Calavanism
<uf> America has all the Christian sects that I don't even know about.
<uf> these
<riddim> i'm not denying religion is a big part of our societies foundation
<Jroksl> Because it is
<Jroksl> that's what I was trying to explain
<uf> Religion is the opiate of the masses
<uf> mr marx said
<riddim> and i'm not supporting reformism either, i was just mentioning how social attitudes r changing
<riddim> ofc 2 truly abolish racism and sexism, etc we need 2 abolish capitalism
<uf> capitalism has an ugly agenda
<uf> to divide and conquer the proles
<Jroksl> riddim: if social attidudes are changing then how do you explain the existence of gamergate, neo nazis, conspiracy nuts, etc?
<uf> they are just insane
<uf> no logic
<riddim> jroksl, reactionaries last push as even liberal society leaves their bs largely behind
<Jroksl> My point is, your talk of "social change" maybe just wishful thinking while the reality has it that things haven't change since Capitalism has founded, because I betchya like minded people like ourselves said the same thing
<riddim> acting like the major progress we've had in regards 2 women's rights, racial issues, etc is reductionist as fuck
<riddim> acting like they haven't done anything i mean
<riddim> when capitalism was founded i would b in literal chains dude
<Jroksl> Also the very concept of "Rights" is bourgise as well
<riddim> i agree
<Jroksl> Since it stems from "Divine Right to Kings"
<Jroksl> So what you talk of "Women Rights" "Racial Issues" are just results from a very corrupt system
* ziggy-prime slaps his forhead and winces
<riddim> thru intense struggle we've made some change even w/o outright abolishing capitalism
<Jroksl> However my main point though that those "Changes" are not permanantly gureenteed unless we outright abolish capitalism
<riddim> ofc
<riddim> we're not liberals here
<Jroksl> Because they can be rolled back at any time
<Jroksl> Since in the end the ones who are permanatly gureented are wealthy white males
<Jroksl> Which is where the main problem with Capitalism lies
<riddim> but don't let perfect b the enemy of good, accelerationism isn't gonna help us out, it could just as easily lead 2 fascism
<ziggy-prime> Jroksl, i thought the main problem with capitalism was capitalism
<Jroksl> ziggy-prime: Well it is duh
<ziggy-prime> duh
<Jroksl> Because Capitalism = Wealthy White Hetrosexual Abled Bodied Protestant Christian Males
<telmac> riddim: what do you mean reductionist
<telmac> does it have some weird sense here
<riddim> minimizing the outcomes of those struggles
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<morganq> calculating the economic plan is easier than calculating what bundle of goods a given economic agent will buy at the market given their indifference curves
<morganq> this gives me pleasure
<Hartigan> freed NK prisoner: "I was prepared for the 'torture' but instead of that I was killed with kindness, and with that my mind folded and the plan fell apart"
<Hartigan> nobody can "prepare" for torture, certainly not a civilian suburban kid fresh out of high school
<Hartigan> http://www.nknews.org/2014/11/matthew-millers-excellent-adventure-in-north-korea/
<GameOver> Title: Matthew Miller’s excellent adventure in North Korea | NK News - North Korea News (at www.nknews.org)
<riddim> sounds like some older comedy movie
<morganq> lol
<morganq> bill and ted's
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<Hartigan> ugh reactionaries trashing the cultural marxism article on wikipedia
<uf> what do you expect?
<uf> the internet is full of capitalists
<Hartigan> last time i looked at it at least the first paragraph of the article was sane
<uf> what is cultural marxism
<uf> trying to get one culture shared?
<uf> I'm confused
<morganq> it's a conspiracy theory
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<Hartigan> uf: "race mixing is communism"
<Hartigan> that's it
<Hartigan> when someone crows about cultural marxism you're just seeing this play out in the present day  http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/race_mixing_communism2.jpeg
<Hartigan> sorry for the link ot a fascist site, it's the first thing that came up
<riddim> i am communism embodied!
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<uf> So it's race mixing leading to new cultures, combined cultures, etc?
<morganq> riddim, true
<morganq> uf, it's a rather broad theory
<morganq> that there's academics and others trying to do lots of things to fuck up society
<morganq> like social programs, feminism, anti-racism etc
<morganq> it's standard reaction but they've decided to label their boogeyman "cultural marxism"
<uf> social programs, feminism and anti-racism is reaction?
<morganq> no
<morganq> those are things they complain about and label "cultural marism"
<morganq> +x
<uf> oh
<uf> I play on some game servers where people use the c*** word and call each others n******
<uf> I tell them to stop but they don't
<morganq> indeed they don't
<uf> I told some who are in my city to join in the protest tomorrow but they said they would be, well I better not say
<uf> so right wing academics call socialist programs cultural marxism
<uf> like social welfare?
<morganq> not right wing academics, the conspiracy theorists.
<uf> social healthcare?
<uf> Oh, that.
<morganq> i don't know really, i haven't listened to their manifesto
<riddim> i wouldn't exactly call them academics lol
<morganq> manifestos
<morganq> they make youtube videos
<morganq> denouncing the cultural marxism which is sweeping their country
<uf> is the military industrial complex true?
<uf> I heard of this conspiracy theory
<riddim> youtube u is college 4 these ppl
<morganq> sure i wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory
<morganq> the military industrial complex is just a phenomenon, not a conspiracy
<morganq> lol youtube u
<morganq> YTU
<uf> youtube is full of cranks
<uf> like full
<morganq> yes
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<uf> especially the illuminati theorists
<uf> and the libertarians
<riddim> i watched a video the other day about satanic messages in seinfield it was great
<uf> Don't tread on me
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<uf> there are some parodies of those videos you known
<uf> know*
<uf> so all the left leaning things that aren't quite economic or political are cultural marxism
<uf> at least those three examples
<riddim> yeah, plenty of lumimaty videos make fun of conspiracy theorists
<uf> lol
<uf> So I'm going to this protest tomorrow and it should be huge as it contains a few big unions
<uf> the local groups that are revolutionary are tiny compared to the worker's unions
<morganq> jacobian, just saw you on video~~
<morganq> watching the cybersocialism thing
<Hartigan> uf: "cultural marxism" is anything a reactionary old fart sees wrong with the world
<Hartigan> except thanks to gamergate it's not just old farts anymore, it's their kids too
<nuit_> hey mates
<nuit_> yes cultural marxism is a conspiracy theory
<nuit_> starting in the late 80s i think
<uf> lol?
<uf> also gamergate - your opinoins
<Hartigan> it's anything that takes a white middle class man's candy away
<Hartigan> uf: no opinion, i'm barely aware that it exists
<uf> tl;dr a girl sleeps around and get promoted and good reviews
<uf> that's what I heard
<uf> sex power
<riddim> goddamn i just went over it
<uf> and her game gets onto steam
<riddim> gamergate is just neckbeards hating on women
<uf> likely
<riddim> quinn supposedly had sex w some dude who mentioned her game in a article about 50 games and this was b4 they supposedly had sex
<riddim> no reviews or shit like that
<aeth> if you hate GamerGate, you can always follow GamerGhazi
<riddim> regardless of if she fucked some dude it's no excuse 4 the hate and death threats she got which by chance never got 2 the supposed corrupt journalisr
<riddim> journalist
<aeth> https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/
<GameOver> Title: Mocking GamerGate, the Right Wing Gamer Babies' Playpen (at www.reddit.com)
<aeth> "Actually it's about ethics in Star Trek journalism"
<riddim> gamerghazi is pretty cool but i couldn't deal w reading about the bs 4 long
<riddim> just let the shit die
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<aeth> What does ##marxism think about Die Linke?
<uf> they are dem soc
<uf> you must have a revolution man
<uf> not democracy
<uf> well the revolution guarantees full democracy
<aeth> this is the top non-meme on /r/socialism right now: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30124725
<GameOver> Title: BBC News - German leftists agree historic deal to rule in Thuringia (at www.bbc.com)
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<nuit_> hey i stepped on my ipad
<nuit_> can it be fixewd
<riddim> did u just break the screen
<riddim> or is it fucked worse
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<nuit_> well
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<nuit_> externally its not broken
<nuit_> but the screen is white with black bits
<nuit_> and wont change
<riddim> hmmm. well it could just b the screen which can b fixed
<riddim> if it's internal stuff than u prob fucked
<riddim> try hooking it up 2 ur computer and c if it is recognized
<nuit_> yeah
<nuit_> it is
<nuit_> bnut the screen doesnt change
<riddim> try doing a hard reset
<riddim> if it shows up on ur itunes still and the hard reset doesn't fix the screen than it just needs a screen replacement
<riddim> u could try restoring it from itunes as well if the hard reset doesn't work
<nuit_> well the screen stayed the same
<nuit_> but itunes recognized it
<nuit_> i guess i just need a new screen then
<riddim> yeah that sucks but it could b worse
<riddim> i used 2 make decent money replacing screens 4 ppl when iphones just came out. u just had 2 buy the screens on ebay and get the right tools
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<Hartigan> <3  http://tinotonatini.tumblr.com/post/89729825176/huey-freeman-for-president
<GameOver> Title: killer kung-fu wolf !@#&! (at tinotonatini.tumblr.com)
<riddim> if i remember right that's from the christmas episode of boondocks
<riddim> where huey tries 2 have his play about black jesus