17:55:11 @GreXX was opped (+o) by @ChanServ
17:55:11 <PabloAngello_> hey GreXX
17:55:15 PabloAngello_ → PabloAngello
17:55:16 <@GreXX> Hey guys
17:55:22 <fivekbtc> Heya Grexx
17:55:27 <fivekbtc> nice seeing ya
17:55:29 <fivekbtc> heya pabloangello
17:55:32 <@GreXX> Had a good talk with Brad last night, did he get a chance to talk to anyone?
17:55:39 <PabloAngello> GreXX, I noticed no forging since yesterday morning
17:55:39 <fivekbtc> Hmm whos brad haha
17:55:43 <PabloAngello> I have 3 nodes working all the times
17:55:47 <PabloAngello> time*
17:56:09 <@GreXX> Sory meant Brian lol
17:56:21 <fivekbtc> who's brian
17:56:26 <fivekbtc> Vagnavs right?
17:56:28 <@GreXX> yeah
17:56:38 <fivekbtc> I must've missed it, perhaps karmacoma24 has a pastebin?
17:56:47 <@GreXX> No it was a PM
17:56:49 <@GreXX> on here
17:56:57 <fivekbtc> Aha I see
17:57:06 <fivekbtc> I haven't seen him on here today
17:57:18 <fivekbtc> enlighten us!
17:57:51 <@GreXX> Just filled him in on some backstory and some of the reasons we are where we are and where that is.
17:57:57 <@GreXX> I'll be happy to talk in here today to all of you.
17:58:06 <@GreXX> I'm hoping after our meeting in a bit I can get a few of the others on as well.
17:58:14 <PabloAngello> nice
17:58:26 <fivekbtc> This is cool
17:58:33 <karmacoma24> Excellent! :o)
17:58:33 <@GreXX> Pablo, you haven't forged a block since yesterday you said?
17:58:36 <PabloAngello> you may announce it in the Crypti thread on btt so others could join irc discussion
17:58:51 <karmacoma24> Good idea
17:58:54 <PabloAngello> GreXX, yes, but wait a moment I will check now (last check was few ours ago)
17:58:58 <fivekbtc> I think personally for me, I hope for some healthy discussion, because I am a bit confused about a few things, and maybe a developer here will have the 100% accurate picture of everything I think
17:59:17 <@GreXX> Yeah, I'm trying to be here as much as I can, but I'm going to try to be here for a bit today to help answer questions and kind of just openly talk
17:59:20 <fivekbtc> so we can cover all grounds!
17:59:35 <fivekbtc> I appreciate this
17:59:43 <@GreXX> I have a 100% accurate picture, but sometimes I have to be selective about what gets put out.
17:59:53 <@GreXX> That's the job of a communications director!
18:00:21 <@GreXX> However I was pretty candid last night with Vag and intend to be here as well
18:00:36 <fivekbtc> and yeah, what pabloangello says but I don't think we got the same version, I've kept my windows computer on with that wallet and forging enabled, but I haven't forged a single block ever sadly, and I think it was Wulfcastle who had the same experience
18:01:08 <PabloAngello> GreXX, Just noticed forged just a few
18:01:20 <Barie> hey Grexx :)
18:01:22 <PabloAngello> almost 2 days and only 5-7 XCR is weird
18:01:27 <PabloAngello> with 3 nodes
18:01:53 <Barie> grexx, how's work on 0.18 coming along?
18:02:23 <fivekbtc> yep I get this, but Wulfcastle was showing me a few contradictions about the CMBs in thread, so figured, maybe there needs to be some clarifications about it not sure
18:05:11 <@GreXX> Hey if I dont respond for a minute its because I have like 7 convos going
18:05:20 <@GreXX> i'm here tho and will get to all questions
18:05:32 <@GreXX> Pablo, the script was down for a bit
18:05:59 <@GreXX> we are going to re-code it to be more consistent (it tends to crash right now after a while)
18:06:05 <@GreXX> It is back up now however.
18:06:14 <@GreXX> Boris is also working on fixing the Top Accounts right now
18:06:21 <@GreXX> It's been broke far too long
18:07:17 <fivekbtc> You thinking of doing what Wulfcastle suggested?
18:07:22 <@GreXX> 0.18 is coming along. I don't want to get into the details of the entire situation but it was not in testing as of last night and we mandated that Boris have it in testing this morning.
18:07:23 <fivekbtc> about the blockchain explorer
18:07:35 <@GreXX> I will try to get a link to everyone in order to help test today.
18:07:53 <fivekbtc> so in 2 days there'll be some answers on 0.1.8 if it's working or not?
18:07:55 <@GreXX> 5k, the block explorer, as mentioned, would be open sourced and put on Git once the new version was out.
18:07:59 <@GreXX> That is still my plan to have that pushed.
18:08:09 <fivekbtc> Good stuff
18:08:46 <fivekbtc> there'll be public testing of stuff from now on or no? I saw this is what Wulfcastle brought up, not really my forte but I can see how this could be good?
18:09:43 <@GreXX> There has been previously
18:09:55 <@GreXX> Boris usually comes here and solicits help testing new versions
18:10:06 <@GreXX> The problem is that it's been so long between releases no one remembers
18:10:20 <fivekbtc> this is true
18:10:28 <@GreXX> Boris is currently working on fixing Top Accounts and getting the NDA to a new dev we may be hiring today.
18:10:50 <fivekbtc> We've not seen so much positivty flowing since the network was back up, I hope this changes soon!
18:10:57 <fivekbtc> I see, who's this developer
18:11:29 <fivekbtc> obviously I don't care for name, maybe you cant say, but maybe a broad explanation of his credentials
18:11:31 <@GreXX> Let me get back to something else 5k
18:11:41 <@GreXX> Do you and Wulf have your windows boxes set to a time server?
18:11:54 <@GreXX> As in is your clock accurate to the second?
18:12:18 <fivekbtc> can you dumb this down a little bit, time server?
18:12:25 <@GreXX> I know that when we originally tested the windows version, we were seeing issues where nodes we ran on testnet that were out of sync time wise, by a minute, were unable to forge.
18:12:30 <@GreXX> It was mentioned in the release notes and announcement
18:12:42 <karmacoma24> This would make sense...
18:12:43 <@GreXX> OK, that means it probably isn't.
18:13:26 <fivekbtc> how does one do this
18:13:30 <@GreXX> Essentially, because the network is basing everything on time, if your clock is out of sync and you are reporting the previous minute or next minute during a block, the network sees it as an attack or malformed packet and negates you as a forger.
18:13:34 <fivekbtc> I time the explorer and set my pc time to it?
18:13:55 <karmacoma24> fivekbtc: i can show you later if you want
18:14:04 <fivekbtc> yeah, ok sure
18:14:25 <fivekbtc> I think this is def your forte to do karmacoma24, so lets discuss other things then
18:14:35 <fivekbtc> and forget I've been having this easy answer in front of me for weeks lol
18:14:43 <karmacoma24> lol
18:15:01 <@GreXX> I am on a mac so I can't see the windows, but you should be able to go into settings and select a server or add one to sync with
18:15:25 <@GreXX> That was one of the issues we got stuck on in testing for days with the windows wallet so don't feel bad.
18:15:36 <@GreXX> We didn't think about it at first either
18:16:21 <fivekbtc> Haha ok ok, so
18:16:29 <fivekbtc> This new developer
18:16:38 <@GreXX> Ah yes
18:16:52 <fivekbtc> Any comment you can make here? Kinda curious since you set out announcements for job hiring few months back I recall
18:17:04 <@GreXX> So we finally got everyone to sign off on hiring temp help through a freelancer / contractor until we can setup a more permanent situation (Belarus office)
18:17:09 <@GreXX> So we put out some ads yesterday
18:17:28 <@GreXX> Boris interviewed a developer this morning who has done quite a bit of great work. He reviewed is Git and open source projects and was very encouraged
18:17:34 <@GreXX> So we are progressing with the hiring on a fast track
18:18:28 <@GreXX> Well last time we posted the job, we received a ton of candidates. 30+. But many members of the team wanted to setup something more long term and were dead set on getting an office and collaborative team setup for R&D and centrally located.
18:18:37 <fivekbtc> Say he signs this NDA today, when does he start working
18:18:38 <@GreXX> Which as I mentioned to Brian last night, would have been a great solution.
18:18:52 <@GreXX> But items outside of our control have continued to push that date.
18:19:06 <@GreXX> Keep in mind we are uprooting boris and moving him to Belarus to work in this office.
18:19:20 <@GreXX> He is a Russian citizen, so there was a lot more involved than I think was anticipated.
18:19:33 <@GreXX> He signs the NDA, we finalize the terms at our meeting, and then he starts.
18:19:39 <fivekbtc> yeah, russians have a harder time leaving russia than one can expect
18:19:49 <fivekbtc> bit OT but how does one sign an NDA on the net
18:20:02 <fivekbtc> is this NDA legally binding?
18:21:41 <@GreXX> In certain areas yes. Its more of a formality in my mind.
18:22:01 <@GreXX> I mean ultimately we all know how those things can go.
18:22:03 <fivekbtc> well ok
18:22:22 <fivekbtc> Anyway, when's Crypti going to Belarus and whos going with him
18:23:55 <@GreXX> Boris and Arman. We are awaiting legal documents for Boris to be able to go, which they are telling him hopefully the 18th.
18:24:24 <@GreXX> But we arne't waiting anymore. We will hire interim devs (who could be long term if they are great and affordable).
18:24:30 <fivekbtc> Arman?
18:24:36 <@GreXX> We need extra dev help and theirs no way to continue pushing that.
18:24:40 <@GreXX> Arman, yes.
18:24:50 <fivekbtc> Who's Arman
18:25:02 <fivekbtc> okay, that's good
18:25:06 <@GreXX> Arman started this project with Boris and financed all development prior to launch.
18:25:17 <@GreXX> He is the one who brought SyRenity on, who brought Mike and I with him.
18:25:31 <@GreXX> We originally came on as consultants to help design and conduct the launch process for them
18:25:35 <fivekbtc> Aha, a.m investor in OP
18:25:44 <@GreXX> But the team worked out great so we stayed together.
18:25:59 <fivekbtc> Ah, ok
18:26:00 <@GreXX> Plus we had a lot of time and energy put into Crypti and believe in it and wanted to continue
18:26:01 <fivekbtc> So
18:26:09 <fivekbtc> That's cool
18:26:12 <@GreXX> Yes, Arman is the original investor
18:26:22 <fivekbtc> So, where are you on working with this designer
18:26:29 <@GreXX> He will also be in charge of marketing once we have something to market.
18:26:41 <@GreXX> The logo is done and the site design is on rendition 4 or 5
18:26:43 <fivekbtc> Ok ok
18:26:51 <@GreXX> I am continuing to make tweaks and we are working on some custom graphics
18:26:59 <fivekbtc> Rendition 4 or 5 means?
18:27:03 <@GreXX> It's going well in my mind.
18:27:07 <fivekbtc> Ah ok
18:27:23 <@GreXX> Meaning she works it up, I comment on what I don't like and changes, and then she works on that and gets me the new versoin
18:27:27 <@GreXX> version
18:27:40 <@GreXX> So we have worked through quite a bit so far and I'm feeling really good about it.
18:27:46 <@GreXX> But we still have some things I want to do.
18:27:50 <@GreXX> So its not done yet
18:28:50 <@GreXX> But I am feeling good about it.
18:29:03 <fivekbtc> so, to conclude thus far 0.1.8 is in testing, if no bugs release on monday, logo done, design coming along, boris on the 18th gets to know if he can go or not, developer probably start today/tomorrow (?) developing about to speed up, NRP script recoded. correct so far?
18:29:17 <@GreXX> Yup
18:29:19 <@GreXX> sounds about right
18:29:30 <fivekbtc> okay cool
18:29:35 <fivekbtc> so where do we stand on PoT?
18:29:40 <@GreXX> NRP will be re-coded by the new dev or Boris. Seb wrote the current version but we need something more stable.
18:29:58 <fivekbtc> Ok
18:30:27 <@GreXX> Well PoT has been a huge headache and the brunt of our problems.
18:30:45 <@GreXX> As you know, we had a plan, completely laid out, and it was a catastrophic failure.
18:30:55 <@GreXX> So since then I feel like it has kind of been a scramble to find our way.
18:31:00 <@GreXX> We have 5 or 6 proposal solutions.
18:31:17 <fivekbtc> Agreed, its only to accept this and move on
18:31:18 <@GreXX> but doing a modified DPOS (as I mentioned here last week) seems to be the front runner and best choice
18:31:33 <fivekbtc> Okay, so you're going with that one most likely
18:31:38 <@GreXX> We know we need to scrap PoT and find a different solution, at least in regards to how we have discussed it and built it to now.
18:31:46 <@GreXX> i.e. scrap whatever we thought and start from scratch
18:31:51 <@GreXX> so that is what we did with the new proposals
18:32:04 <@GreXX> You guys have heard seeral of them explained a bit in some previous announcements and posts.
18:32:19 <fivekbtc> yeah, I think it's time for that too
18:32:32 <fivekbtc> so, how long would that take you, if you'd go with DPOS
18:32:49 <@GreXX> Well if we can hire 2 more developers, a lot less time.
18:32:55 <@GreXX> Boris is burnt out.
18:33:00 <fivekbtc> a kinda ballpark here is just fine
18:33:09 <fivekbtc> yeah, I can imagine he has too much on his table
18:33:30 <@GreXX> I mean i'll be honest, he worked some crazy 20 hour days before when we were on a roll and you have to consider how that all effected him as well.
18:33:35 <fivekbtc> so this new developer will surely speed things up, maybe boris works better if he doesnt have fire behind him too, I know I work like this anyway
18:33:40 <@GreXX> i.e. having to start over and acknowledge it woudln't work.
18:33:45 <@GreXX> It wasn't easy for any of us.
18:33:52 <fivekbtc> yep
18:33:53 <fivekbtc> well
18:34:09 <@GreXX> Right, so we are working on that and as mentioned, have finally got everyone to agree to hire temp devs
18:34:10 <fivekbtc> accepting failure is a strong move, sometime it needs to be done
18:34:14 <@GreXX> to get things moving ASAP
18:34:19 <fivekbtc> everything cant work out perfectly from the bat
18:34:22 <fivekbtc> or how one thought about it
18:34:30 <fivekbtc> this is good
18:34:30 <fivekbtc> so
18:34:41 <@GreXX> Well, there is a difference between bugs, and finding out your fundamental principles are too hard for anyone to figure out
18:34:50 <fivekbtc> Where are we on the custom blockchains? I mean, for me, this is probably the main thing about XCR
18:35:06 <@GreXX> So we had worked on it previously at launch because we had a stable (we thought) working client.
18:35:18 <fivekbtc> maybe along the lines, this can be figured out, who knows, but does not seem right to dwell over it now, just look ahead!
18:35:26 <@GreXX> Then our plan was for Boris to immediately start on getting custom chains to market after these database, loading, and memory issues were fixed
18:35:28 <fivekbtc> yeah
18:35:40 <@GreXX> Some of those optimizations are in the next release, but the initial loading time is still long.
18:35:48 <@GreXX> We know the solution to it, but need to have the time to do it.
18:36:08 <fivekbtc> okay, so how long will that take you?
18:36:11 <@GreXX> Between fixing the block explorer, working on getting to Belrus, and some other things, its been too hard to get it all juggled with 1 dev.
18:36:17 <@GreXX> So again, devs is the answer here.
18:36:35 <@GreXX> IF we get the right devs, it won't take long to finish the optimization pieces.
18:36:47 <fivekbtc> yep, maybe this new developer can work on the initial loading time - Crypti goes on CMBs
18:37:00 <fivekbtc> okay so cool
18:37:00 <@GreXX> They need to re-factor the code, do some changes to how it stores the IDs for the new database so it isn't loading 8 bytes per ID, etc.
18:37:06 <@GreXX> blah blah tech stuff
18:37:16 <fivekbtc> so this will take you?
18:37:30 <@GreXX> Bottom line, we believe we know how to get the right optimizations in place to speed things up and get the current version good.
18:37:35 <fivekbtc> because I agree the client must be stable before anything else
18:37:52 <@GreXX> With new devs it shouldn't take long, but I'm weary of a time table until they are in place and we can get them working.
18:38:33 <@GreXX> But, once the new devs are set working on optimizations, we can have Boris focus on Custom Chains (although the trip, if and when it happens will delay it somewhat).
18:38:55 <fivekbtc> yeah so well
18:39:16 <@GreXX> Is 5k the only one with questions? ;-)
18:39:24 <fivekbtc> let's say this: this new developer starts working on the opt tomorrow, and boris on custom chains, how long will a stable client take?
18:39:43 <@GreXX> I can tell you that with new devs and a larger team, progress will be much more fruitful, consistent, and progressive.
18:40:11 <fivekbtc> well, ofcourse..
18:40:15 <@GreXX> But i'm not comfortable with an exact timeline. Those tend to just get me yelled at by you guys louder. ;-)
18:40:51 <karmacoma24> i'm letting fivekbtc take the lead here... listening in though with great interest.
18:41:04 <fivekbtc> I'm just more looking for a ball park here on a stable client
18:45:33 <fivekbtc> not an exact timeline of it, because I'm not tech enough, or got insight so I don't know what we're talking here
18:46:00 <@GreXX> I would say a good dev could probably make the changes quickly.... hold on
18:46:24 <@GreXX> Boris is working on a few things and then wants to make a detailed plan for dev map
18:46:34 <@GreXX> He said once he has it all done he'll get back to me
18:46:36 <fivekbtc> When can this be expected?
18:46:36 <@GreXX> He's working on all of it now
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> Ok, I think this is important too
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> because of the general confusion
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> anyway
18:46:41 <@GreXX> So i'll try to get you a timeline (rough as always) after that
18:46:46 <@GreXX> Well we will be setting up a trello boad I believe for the new devs
18:46:46 <fivekbtc> Say the client is stable, right
18:48:00 <@GreXX> I have brought up the possibility of making it public and will bring it up in the meeting today
18:48:00 <fivekbtc> Ok ok
18:48:00 <fivekbtc> Anyway, say the client is stable, what's the next step?
18:48:02 <@GreXX> Custom chains
18:48:11 <@GreXX> but let me be clear
18:48:21 <@GreXX> we did have major discussions about the algorithm / system change last week
18:48:38 <@GreXX> and once we started talking about DPOS, everyone sort of started to get excited that we might have an answer
18:48:48 <@GreXX> and I think that is where some of the confusion originated in the messages
18:48:58 <@GreXX> I think some thought once we talked about that we were gonig to start development
18:49:00 <@GreXX> and forgot that we set chains as priority
18:50:18 <@GreXX> so it will be re-clarified.
18:50:21 <@GreXX> My goal is to make chains priority 1 once we are stable
18:50:22 <@GreXX> but I will update after todays discussions
18:50:24 <@GreXX> in regards to exactly what its looking like
18:50:24 <@GreXX> As I mentioned last night
18:50:31 <fivekbtc> I agree with this, because we are looking at ETH and XCP, what they're doing, and even what theyre doing to one another with code
18:50:31 <@GreXX> I have been contemplating some possible pivot points as well, that I think need to be considered and have been having some discussions with SyRenity
18:50:39 <fivekbtc> It seems very apparent that CMBs needs to be out sooner than soon
18:50:45 <fivekbtc> so I hope this belarus business comes along quickly
18:50:51 <fivekbtc> and this new developer too
18:51:15 <fivekbtc> but I think you need to give rough timelines, and maybe even give a shot at real timelines too, shows confidence when you have it
18:51:22 <fivekbtc> I think once you hit one of these deadlines you set for yourself
18:51:33 <fivekbtc> it'll be good on all of you
18:51:35 <@GreXX> For starters, I am contemplating and trying to research and reason through the possibility of converting XCR to an XCP asset and running custom chains as a secondary consensus and verification feature on top of XCP using the new turing solution.
18:52:29 <@GreXX> This market is small and narrowing quickly and I don't know how much room exists for another alt chain to really gain ground.
18:53:13 <fivekbtc> This would mean?
18:53:14 <fivekbtc> I see
18:53:15 <@GreXX> The top tier has begun to materialize and take shape to a point where there just really isn't a ton of room to move as an altcoin anymore
18:53:15 <fivekbtc> Maybe this is true, but what would this mean to holders of XCR?
18:53:15 <@GreXX> Starting a chain from scratch and forcing people to buy into an all new ecosystem with much less in regards to services is an uphill battle.
18:53:44 <@GreXX> Not only that, but those other devs have shown extensive ability to quickly copy and turn around features from others that are useful
18:53:46 <@GreXX> look at XCP
18:56:04 <karmacoma24> GreXX: you mean this? http://www.coindesk.com/counterparty-ignites-debate-ethereum-software-integration/
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19:03:02 <@GreXX> yes
19:03:45 <@GreXX> So as mentioned, no matter how great custom chains is, we are trying to to get people to buy in to a new ecosystem from scratch with no secondary services
19:04:00 <@GreXX> all it takes is for 1 established team to integrate a custom chains solution and then what?
19:04:18 <@GreXX> So if we can develop it as a secondary 3rd party feature of a current existing ecosystem
19:04:25 <@GreXX> then we come out ahead I think
19:04:30 <@GreXX> the question is feasability
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19:06:56 <@GreXX> starting meeting, will be a bit pre-occupied.
19:07:20 <@GreXX> Still here though
19:07:32 <karmacoma24> okay thanks GreXX much appreciated!
19:07:47 <@GreXX> Just ask any questsions and i'll try to answer as I go
19:07:56 <karmacoma24> :o)
19:07:57 <@GreXX> or propose ideas if you have some  :-)
19:08:06 <fivekbtc> yea, I'd like an ETA om cmbs!
19:08:07 <fivekbtc> ok so
19:08:18 <fivekbtc> what will this mean for holders of XCR
19:08:23 <fivekbtc> if youd do it like this
19:09:47 <fivekbtc> I mean, what would the value of holding XCR be
19:21:07 <fivekbtc> also XCP is 10 mins blocktimes no? XCR got 1 mins, there's some different use in this
19:42:16 <fivekbtc> I think the best way would still be to do CMBs on your own, then make half a dozen reference implementations, not sure how good XCP would be, you'd put whole XCR in the palm of XCP, and hope their platform work, also I think their stuff take like a day or two to load, imagine with XCR in it too, not sure
19:42:37 <fivekbtc> your guys decisions I suppose, but if you were to release all of this <1 month you could still battle top 15
19:43:15 <fivekbtc> but sure, youd launch an empty service, but youd have to set the path yourselves for how it should be used or how it could be used
19:44:08 <fivekbtc> but I think with XCP, I'm not sure where this leaves all your investors, I don't think for the better, but what do you think yourself?
19:47:48 <@GreXX> I think that XCP is a very strong contender at this point.
19:47:53 <@GreXX> Their valuation and network use is high.
19:48:05 <@GreXX> But i'm not just considering that
19:49:05 <@GreXX> ultimately I would like XCR to be independant of XCP, BTSX, etc, but be available to use as a secondary consensus and verification / security model for everyone. This conversation would takes hours / days and require in depth explanation of quite a bit.
19:49:17 <@GreXX> At the end of the day, there are a lot of options still open
19:49:34 <@GreXX> Right now these are things I am researching, not directions we are taking
19:49:59 <@GreXX> BTC is huge, XCP is getting bigger, Ripple has a lot of money, and BTSX is smart
19:50:24 <@GreXX> If any one of those networks simply copies what we are doing, I think their network strength is very strong and hard to overcome
19:50:32 <@GreXX> So our tenant of doing it easier and better still persists
19:50:46 <@GreXX> Companies have always come to market late and dominated by being more intuitive
19:51:01 <@GreXX> So this is our focus.. the best user experience possible
19:51:05 <fivekbtc> maybe
19:51:27 <fivekbtc> but ETH duplicated XCP in 400 lines of code
19:51:37 <fivekbtc> actually, why not build on top of ETH instead if anything?
19:51:44 <@GreXX> XCP instituted Eths entire system in a few days
19:52:05 <@GreXX> but right, there are multiple options
19:52:18 <@GreXX> I don't actually want to build on top of any particular one but rather find a way through turing to tie into both
19:52:41 <@GreXX> which we may be able to do with our own stand alone block chain / XCR / custom chains
19:52:54 <@GreXX> and use turing to interface all 3
19:53:13 <@GreXX> But this is all still theoretical as eth doens't exist and XCP implementation is still testnet based and early
19:53:47 <fivekbtc> yeah well so
19:54:13 <fivekbtc> most importantly for those reading this later; where would this leave the current holders of XCR?
19:54:32 <@GreXX> So the point is, if we have the system built and functioning, we can still beat others to cross chain implementation if possible.
19:54:36 <fivekbtc> I can't determine myself, since I don't comprehend these systems thoroughly
19:54:38 <@GreXX> Probably much better off
19:55:00 <fivekbtc> better off than now or better off than playing solo?
19:55:04 <@GreXX> you would immediately be part of a much stronger ecosystem with volume and considerable money involved and XCR would still be the fuel for the custom block chains system
19:55:13 <@GreXX> so anyone building a custom chain would still be paying in XCR
19:55:25 <@GreXX> It would immediately probably make the price higher
19:55:28 <@GreXX> but long term I can't predict
19:55:43 <@GreXX> If we can gain the traction, we are always better off with our own stand alone product that we control
19:55:45 <@GreXX> I think that is a given
19:56:05 <@GreXX> So it comes down to whether or not we can gain the traction and carve out a space next to XCP and BTSX and ETH
19:56:13 <@GreXX> which from the beginning we have felt like we could
19:56:28 <@GreXX> but obviously you do begin to question some of your resolve in situations like ours.
19:58:53 <@GreXX> Thats why I prefaced this with "these are angles I am researching and not actual dev goals atm" because these are like contigencies if you will.
20:00:11 <fivekbtc> yeah, well, personally I'd rather you do something than nothing so I'm with you on this one
20:00:20 <fivekbtc> perhaps I'm leaning more towards ETH than XCP if any
20:00:29 <fivekbtc> but then again I dont know ur system, or no1 has evalued them yet
20:00:38 <fivekbtc> so this is obviously your forte
20:01:15 <fivekbtc> but I just feel, as always, investors should be first prio in mind
20:01:27 <@GreXX> Right, I think we continue to focus on developing our own, and then if we are having trouble gaining traction, we can pivot to a 3rd party platform when they are released, if that makes sense.
20:01:30 <fivekbtc> so this is what I ask about, to determine what kind of value it would have to us holding XCR
20:01:49 <fivekbtc> yeah, this makes more sense
20:01:52 <@GreXX> If we have our base, the option to interface with a program on top of XCP and Eth with our chain is more likely
20:02:20 <@GreXX> So build the tech and be ready for several possibilities essentially
20:02:22 <fivekbtc> Try to build your own image, then look at these things to increase traction, even, doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing
20:02:28 <@GreXX> I like to plan ahead though and don't want us to be left out to dry
20:02:28 <fivekbtc> yeah
20:03:04 <fivekbtc> I already said time was at the essence I still think this is, with ETH, btsx, XCP, so new devs are good stuff really
20:03:22 <fivekbtc> rather sooner than later I guess but
20:03:35 <@GreXX> btw the wallet is reloading because I think Boris fixed top accounts just now
20:03:48 <fivekbtc> cool cool
20:03:53 <karmacoma24> nice
20:03:54 <@GreXX> Boris is also briefing and talking to new Dev right now
20:04:02 <@GreXX> we have all agreed to hire him and NDA is signed contract being worked now
20:04:20 <fivekbtc> I am really curious about the ETA on CMBs later, (after opt is done taken into consideration.)  Atleast a ballpark
20:04:23 <fivekbtc> ah, then I see he is busy
20:04:37 <fivekbtc> I'm sure you guys are like 10 people, you'll figure out the best course to go
20:05:01 <@GreXX> We have 8 foundation members plus Seb and new dev
20:05:01 <fivekbtc> but let's always remember the investors in these stressful times
20:05:11 <fivekbtc> like superstars and their fans right?
20:05:12 <@GreXX> Trust me, I bring you guys up at least 10 times a day
20:05:19 <@GreXX> some by name
20:05:39 <@GreXX> for you louder folks (looking at you 5k and Wulf)
20:05:46 <fivekbtc> Haha, ok, just making sure, this is good
20:07:19 <fivekbtc> I just feel like investors and developers relation is much like superstars and fans anyway, I like this one, without the fans there is no superstar, but sometimes they forget, but anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out the best outcome just making sure!
20:07:21 <fivekbtc> anyway
20:07:34 <fivekbtc> I was wondering about this also
20:07:54 <fivekbtc> The BTER fee at 1%, Poloniex and Cryptsy, has been coming up for some time
20:07:54 <fivekbtc> I think about a month
20:08:25 <fivekbtc> Action needs to made in these regards, I noticed you talk Poloniex talked with Boris along the steps, and they did not fix this, which is weird, BTER did it in under an hour I recall
20:08:42 <fivekbtc> so I was wondering perhaps someone else in your team can set up the communication with Poloniex
20:08:52 <fivekbtc> and Boris hands them the instructions and walk them through it
20:08:56 <fivekbtc> is this possible?
20:08:59 <karmacoma24> well said fivekbtc...
20:09:38 <fivekbtc> since I realise Boris is busy you know, and a lot of things are top prios, but maybe something can be done here
20:10:16 <@GreXX> It's not a matter of not understanding Boris, the Poloniex Dev seems incompentant to me. I'm not bashing anyone but he is basically asking Boris to implement and help fix their shit system.
20:10:32 <@GreXX> I mean you are correct, BTER was actually done with implementation in a matter of minutes once they started.
20:10:44 <@GreXX> Something to do with how Poloniex system is built just is haywire
20:10:56 <@GreXX> and they can say i'm full of shit all they want, but i've never seen anything like it
20:11:14 <@GreXX> Boris has been in touch with their dev several days this week and still they havent been able to fix it.
20:11:46 <@GreXX> Cryptsy on the other hand has been not responding to Boris
20:11:47 <karmacoma24> yeah i think we can all agree poloniex has it's own peculiar way of doing things...
20:11:54 <@GreXX> So we have asked SyRenity to get in touch with them.
20:12:12 <@GreXX> To see if it will make a difference as he is the one that worked with them to get it working in the beginning
20:12:28 <@GreXX> Cryptsy probably put it low on the totem pole due to lack of volume would be my guess.
20:12:36 <@GreXX> But SyRenity is going to try and address it himself.
20:13:07 <karmacoma24> any timeframe on that?
20:13:07 <@GreXX> As far as BTER goes, I know he said he would contact Lin and discuss it, we even agreed to offer him 10 BTC if need be to get it removed, but I am not sure where it stands and will ask for an update.
20:13:26 <@GreXX> Should be ASAP Karma, I will remind him before the meeting is over about both issues.
20:13:36 <karmacoma24> ok
20:14:15 <@GreXX> I agree that this is unacceptable and know how it seems.
20:14:24 <@GreXX> All I can do is go back and try to push to get it fixed.
20:14:30 <@GreXX> Actions louder than words, you know.
20:14:49 <karmacoma24> yeah for sure...
20:14:57 <@GreXX> Please just keep in mind I relay all of your issues and constantly work to help resolve whatever I can. At the end of the day, I can't program and can only relay what I get back.
20:15:15 <@GreXX> But I continue to push, sometimes with colorful language.
20:15:47 <@GreXX> I mentioned to someone the other day, if you could see some of our internal conversations you would see my military side coming out
20:15:49 <@GreXX> ;-)
20:16:04 <karmacoma24> lol
20:17:39 <fivekbtc> ok so
20:17:59 <fivekbtc> the poloniex and cryptsy markets were never huge on XCR
20:18:21 <fivekbtc> but, I estimate like maybe 300 or 400k coins in both these exchanges are stuck in limbo
20:18:38 <fivekbtc> and this is leaving some out to dry, as this is not much, but, to some I reckon it might be
20:18:58 <fivekbtc> it's an issue, but as you say, you can only do what you can do to get them to fix this
20:19:18 <@GreXX> I assure you I am pushing it
20:19:27 <fivekbtc> I know Vern is slow on the response side, but then again there are a massive amount of currencies there and since market is small, its probably not on the top of the list
20:19:30 <@GreXX> and SyRenity will be addressing this to keep Boris freed up for his other tasks
20:19:41 <@GreXX> and to spin up the new dev
20:20:10 <fivekbtc> but it's essential to the eco of xcr, to keep a flow later for arbitrage and transactions made, once its of a more stable nature and hopefully bigger too
20:20:44 <fivekbtc> well, I need not remind of this, you all know this, we can only hope Cryptsy responds and Poloniex fixes this somehow, I'm sure nobody likes having their cash stuck in limbo regardless of how much it is
20:20:55 <fivekbtc> hmm
20:21:04 <fivekbtc> so I think, we can expect a stable client hopefully monday
20:21:19 <fivekbtc> and the new developer on the side of fixing it further so boris can focus on CMBs
20:21:52 <fivekbtc> I think what you can do, not sure, set up some contacts with altcurrency journalists
20:22:04 <fivekbtc> I think Node did a pretty good job, they got some exposure through marketing
20:22:39 <fivekbtc> I'm thinking, I was speaking to Crypti earlier, that after the opt issues are done for and client is stable, CMBs should be under a month
20:22:41 → PabloAngello_ joined ([email protected])
20:22:50 <fivekbtc> although I am not sure of this
20:24:03 <fivekbtc> I think you should stick your neck out once more, I know Boris is working this roadmap with rough estimates
20:24:10 <fivekbtc> by that I mean
20:24:14 <fivekbtc> after opt issues are done
20:24:58 <@GreXX> Well Nodes price went up because they put out there forging (which is drastically different than what they proposed) and then people had to go buy 500,000 node to forge
20:25:02 <@GreXX> so it jumped the price.
20:25:22 <fivekbtc> provide a CMB deadline, set up all marketing contacts needed, get a plan for it and see it through
20:25:36 ⇐ PabloAngello quit ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20:25:37 <@GreXX> Right 5k, so remember previously we had said 3-4 weeks tentaive for CMB development
20:25:47 <fivekbtc> I think if Boris goes to Belarus the 18th, and you get working with the new developer and see what he can do
20:26:03 <fivekbtc> in about a week or so, you should be able to provide a good estimate for this
20:26:46 <fivekbtc> to offer my own opinion, I think boris should work on CMBs, then when it's out, work on it, and maybe by this point you have another developer who can do half a dozen reference implementations for cmbs, and boris can stay on it
20:27:04 <fivekbtc> Node did a good job on the marketing front
20:27:19 <fivekbtc> once a stable client, and CMBs are up, marketing would be a good move
20:27:44 <fivekbtc> since bottom line forgers are what makes network work, and more of these always good for network security
20:28:12 <@GreXX> Its always been our plan to market at the launch of CMBs
20:28:19 <@GreXX> We just havent been able to get there
20:28:54 <fivekbtc> 500k for forging is cool, creates some value in this network, the instant transactions is cool, but its more of a payment processor than a good investment to me, but I can see it have some use for sure
20:29:02 <@GreXX> And the outline you just referenced above is exactly what I am communicating is our plan as of right now
20:29:18 <@GreXX> No, its a currency built for merchants and commerce and they are tying up millions in forging fees and taking it out of circulation
20:29:40 <@GreXX> Its not instant transactions either
20:29:43 <fivekbtc> I rarely see investing in cryptocurrencies as actually investing in currencies, it seems more to me like buying a piece of software per say, atleast when it comes to alts they rarely see real world use
20:29:50 <@GreXX> all currencies technically have instant transactions
20:29:56 <@GreXX> they still require the same timeframe for actual confirmation
20:30:11 <PabloAngello_> so will there be any update in next few days?
20:30:14 PabloAngello_ → PabloAngello
20:30:33 <fivekbtc> okay, I haven't fully researched on Node as much as I know about XCR so
20:30:36 <karmacoma24> hello PabloAngello :o)
20:30:43 <PabloAngello> karmacoma24, hello ;)
20:30:50 <PabloAngello> I have read some of above conversation
20:30:52 <PabloAngello> but not all
20:30:56 <fivekbtc> I had them in thought for a project I had, but their network needs to have some uptime and show stability for like a year before something can be based on it
20:31:16 <fivekbtc> hmm PabloAngello, I think I've asked all I want to know
20:32:14 <fivekbtc> 0.1.8 on monday if it passes testing, boris belarus 18th if he can go there, new developer joining today gonna speed it up, after stable client code cmbs pref 3-4 weeks to make this reality
20:32:36 <fivekbtc> poloniex/cryptsy worked on, bter too, but non responsive exchanges, but XCR team will try harder
20:32:39 <PabloAngello> what will be fixed/added in 0.1.8?
20:33:07 <karmacoma24> PabloAngello: hopefully stability and memory usage
20:33:15 <karmacoma24> new db engine
20:33:23 <@GreXX> Its an entirely new database structure that is the first component of the optimization for memory usage, load times, and several other performance fixes.
20:33:58 <PabloAngello> GreXX, so 0.1.8 will bring better forging ok, what next? Another 3-4 weeks of whole community waiting for some update/features added at last?
20:34:08 <PabloAngello> morale is low
20:34:54 <PabloAngello> GreXX, you can speak with enthusiasts like us here, but crypti community is bigger than we here, any plan to calm it?
20:35:19 → Wulfcastle joined ([email protected])
20:35:34 <Wulfcastle> Hey all
20:35:50 <karmacoma24> hello Wulfcastle :o)
20:36:33 <Wulfcastle> Hey karmacoma24 :), is GreXX online?
20:36:45 <karmacoma24> yes, would you like a pastebin?
20:36:45 <@GreXX> YEah
20:36:51 <@GreXX> Been running my mouth for hours Wulf
20:36:53 <@GreXX> you missed it all
20:36:55 <@GreXX> ;-)
20:37:23 → Vagnavs joined ([email protected])
20:37:27 <Wulfcastle> What happened?
20:37:40 <@GreXX> Pablo, what will calm the concern and raise morale is action. Considerable and measurable action towards our goals.
20:37:54 <@GreXX> The only thing that can prove that this project is serious is for us to act like it and deliver as such.
20:37:57 <Wulfcastle> karmacoma24, yes please that would be great :)
20:38:08 <karmacoma24> ok just a sec...
20:38:14 <@GreXX> There is no opportunity to waive a magic wand and fix it all with words.
20:38:36 <@GreXX> Words can go so far, as we can see, but my words need to be backed by something tangible.
20:38:46 <@GreXX> Which we have not delivered.
20:38:49 <Vagnavs> Hey guys
20:38:58 <Wulfcastle> Hey Vagnavs
20:39:02 <@GreXX> Hey Vag
20:39:52 <karmacoma24> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/BjFTId4Y
raw | line numbers | syntax (BjFTId4Y: 442 lines) delete | close
17:55:11 @GreXX was opped (+o) by @ChanServ
17:55:12 <PabloAngello_> hey GreXX
17:55:15 PabloAngello_ → PabloAngello
17:55:17 <@GreXX> Hey guys
17:55:22 <fivekbtc> Heya Grexx
17:55:27 <fivekbtc> nice seeing ya
17:55:30 <fivekbtc> heya pabloangello
17:55:32 <@GreXX> Had a good talk with Brad last night, did he get a chance to talk to anyone?
17:55:39 <PabloAngello> GreXX, I noticed no forging since yesterday morning
17:55:40 <fivekbtc> Hmm whos brad haha
17:55:44 <PabloAngello> I have 3 nodes working all the times
17:55:47 <PabloAngello> time*
17:56:10 <@GreXX> Sory meant Brian lol
17:56:21 <fivekbtc> who's brian
17:56:26 <fivekbtc> Vagnavs right?
17:56:28 <@GreXX> yeah
17:56:39 <fivekbtc> I must've missed it, perhaps karmacoma24 has a pastebin?
17:56:48 <@GreXX> No it was a PM
17:56:50 <@GreXX> on here
17:56:57 <fivekbtc> Aha I see
17:57:07 <fivekbtc> I haven't seen him on here today
17:57:19 <fivekbtc> enlighten us!
17:57:51 <@GreXX> Just filled him in on some backstory and some of the reasons we are where we are and where that is.
17:57:57 <@GreXX> I'll be happy to talk in here today to all of you.
17:58:06 <@GreXX> I'm hoping after our meeting in a bit I can get a few of the others on as well.
17:58:15 <PabloAngello> nice
17:58:27 <fivekbtc> This is cool
17:58:33 <karmacoma24> Excellent! :o)
17:58:34 <@GreXX> Pablo, you haven't forged a block since yesterday you said?
17:58:36 <PabloAngello> you may announce it in the Crypti thread on btt so others could join irc discussion
17:58:52 <karmacoma24> Good idea
17:58:55 <PabloAngello> GreXX, yes, but wait a moment I will check now (last check was few ours ago)
17:58:59 <fivekbtc> I think personally for me, I hope for some healthy discussion, because I am a bit confused about a few things, and maybe a developer here will have the 100% accurate picture of everything I think
17:59:18 <@GreXX> Yeah, I'm trying to be here as much as I can, but I'm going to try to be here for a bit today to help answer questions and kind of just openly talk
17:59:21 <fivekbtc> so we can cover all grounds!
17:59:35 <fivekbtc> I appreciate this
17:59:44 <@GreXX> I have a 100% accurate picture, but sometimes I have to be selective about what gets put out.
17:59:54 <@GreXX> That's the job of a communications director!
18:00:22 <@GreXX> However I was pretty candid last night with Vag and intend to be here as well
18:00:36 <fivekbtc> and yeah, what pabloangello says but I don't think we got the same version, I've kept my windows computer on with that wallet and forging enabled, but I haven't forged a single block ever sadly, and I think it was Wulfcastle who had the same experience
18:01:08 <PabloAngello> GreXX, Just noticed forged just a few
18:01:20 <Barie> hey Grexx :)
18:01:22 <PabloAngello> almost 2 days and only 5-7 XCR is weird
18:01:28 <PabloAngello> with 3 nodes
18:01:54 <Barie> grexx, how's work on 0.18 coming along?
18:02:24 <fivekbtc> yep I get this, but Wulfcastle was showing me a few contradictions about the CMBs in thread, so figured, maybe there needs to be some clarifications about it not sure
18:05:11 <@GreXX> Hey if I dont respond for a minute its because I have like 7 convos going
18:05:20 <@GreXX> i'm here tho and will get to all questions
18:05:33 <@GreXX> Pablo, the script was down for a bit
18:06:00 <@GreXX> we are going to re-code it to be more consistent (it tends to crash right now after a while)
18:06:05 <@GreXX> It is back up now however.
18:06:15 <@GreXX> Boris is also working on fixing the Top Accounts right now
18:06:21 <@GreXX> It's been broke far too long
18:07:17 <fivekbtc> You thinking of doing what Wulfcastle suggested?
18:07:23 <@GreXX> 0.18 is coming along. I don't want to get into the details of the entire situation but it was not in testing as of last night and we mandated that Boris have it in testing this morning.
18:07:23 <fivekbtc> about the blockchain explorer
18:07:35 <@GreXX> I will try to get a link to everyone in order to help test today.
18:07:53 <fivekbtc> so in 2 days there'll be some answers on 0.1.8 if it's working or not?
18:07:55 <@GreXX> 5k, the block explorer, as mentioned, would be open sourced and put on Git once the new version was out.
18:08:00 <@GreXX> That is still my plan to have that pushed.
18:08:10 <fivekbtc> Good stuff
18:08:47 <fivekbtc> there'll be public testing of stuff from now on or no? I saw this is what Wulfcastle brought up, not really my forte but I can see how this could be good?
18:09:44 <@GreXX> There has been previously
18:09:55 <@GreXX> Boris usually comes here and solicits help testing new versions
18:10:06 <@GreXX> The problem is that it's been so long between releases no one remembers
18:10:21 <fivekbtc> this is true
18:10:29 <@GreXX> Boris is currently working on fixing Top Accounts and getting the NDA to a new dev we may be hiring today.
18:10:50 <fivekbtc> We've not seen so much positivty flowing since the network was back up, I hope this changes soon!
18:10:58 <fivekbtc> I see, who's this developer
18:11:30 <fivekbtc> obviously I don't care for name, maybe you cant say, but maybe a broad explanation of his credentials
18:11:31 <@GreXX> Let me get back to something else 5k
18:11:42 <@GreXX> Do you and Wulf have your windows boxes set to a time server?
18:11:55 <@GreXX> As in is your clock accurate to the second?
18:12:19 <fivekbtc> can you dumb this down a little bit, time server?
18:12:25 <@GreXX> I know that when we originally tested the windows version, we were seeing issues where nodes we ran on testnet that were out of sync time wise, by a minute, were unable to forge.
18:12:31 <@GreXX> It was mentioned in the release notes and announcement
18:12:42 <karmacoma24> This would make sense...
18:12:43 <@GreXX> OK, that means it probably isn't.
18:13:27 <fivekbtc> how does one do this
18:13:30 <@GreXX> Essentially, because the network is basing everything on time, if your clock is out of sync and you are reporting the previous minute or next minute during a block, the network sees it as an attack or malformed packet and negates you as a forger.
18:13:35 <fivekbtc> I time the explorer and set my pc time to it?
18:13:55 <karmacoma24> fivekbtc: i can show you later if you want
18:14:05 <fivekbtc> yeah, ok sure
18:14:25 <fivekbtc> I think this is def your forte to do karmacoma24, so lets discuss other things then
18:14:35 <fivekbtc> and forget I've been having this easy answer in front of me for weeks lol
18:14:44 <karmacoma24> lol
18:15:01 <@GreXX> I am on a mac so I can't see the windows, but you should be able to go into settings and select a server or add one to sync with
18:15:26 <@GreXX> That was one of the issues we got stuck on in testing for days with the windows wallet so don't feel bad.
18:15:36 <@GreXX> We didn't think about it at first either
18:16:22 <fivekbtc> Haha ok ok, so
18:16:30 <fivekbtc> This new developer
18:16:39 <@GreXX> Ah yes
18:16:52 <fivekbtc> Any comment you can make here? Kinda curious since you set out announcements for job hiring few months back I recall
18:17:05 <@GreXX> So we finally got everyone to sign off on hiring temp help through a freelancer / contractor until we can setup a more permanent situation (Belarus office)
18:17:10 <@GreXX> So we put out some ads yesterday
18:17:29 <@GreXX> Boris interviewed a developer this morning who has done quite a bit of great work. He reviewed is Git and open source projects and was very encouraged
18:17:35 <@GreXX> So we are progressing with the hiring on a fast track
18:18:29 <@GreXX> Well last time we posted the job, we received a ton of candidates. 30+. But many members of the team wanted to setup something more long term and were dead set on getting an office and collaborative team setup for R&D and centrally located.
18:18:38 <fivekbtc> Say he signs this NDA today, when does he start working
18:18:39 <@GreXX> Which as I mentioned to Brian last night, would have been a great solution.
18:18:53 <@GreXX> But items outside of our control have continued to push that date.
18:19:06 <@GreXX> Keep in mind we are uprooting boris and moving him to Belarus to work in this office.
18:19:20 <@GreXX> He is a Russian citizen, so there was a lot more involved than I think was anticipated.
18:19:33 <@GreXX> He signs the NDA, we finalize the terms at our meeting, and then he starts.
18:19:40 <fivekbtc> yeah, russians have a harder time leaving russia than one can expect
18:19:49 <fivekbtc> bit OT but how does one sign an NDA on the net
18:20:03 <fivekbtc> is this NDA legally binding?
18:21:41 <@GreXX> In certain areas yes. Its more of a formality in my mind.
18:22:01 <@GreXX> I mean ultimately we all know how those things can go.
18:22:03 <fivekbtc> well ok
18:22:22 <fivekbtc> Anyway, when's Crypti going to Belarus and whos going with him
18:23:56 <@GreXX> Boris and Arman. We are awaiting legal documents for Boris to be able to go, which they are telling him hopefully the 18th.
18:24:25 <@GreXX> But we arne't waiting anymore. We will hire interim devs (who could be long term if they are great and affordable).
18:24:31 <fivekbtc> Arman?
18:24:37 <@GreXX> We need extra dev help and theirs no way to continue pushing that.
18:24:41 <@GreXX> Arman, yes.
18:24:51 <fivekbtc> Who's Arman
18:25:02 <fivekbtc> okay, that's good
18:25:07 <@GreXX> Arman started this project with Boris and financed all development prior to launch.
18:25:18 <@GreXX> He is the one who brought SyRenity on, who brought Mike and I with him.
18:25:31 <@GreXX> We originally came on as consultants to help design and conduct the launch process for them
18:25:36 <fivekbtc> Aha, a.m investor in OP
18:25:45 <@GreXX> But the team worked out great so we stayed together.
18:25:59 <fivekbtc> Ah, ok
18:26:00 <@GreXX> Plus we had a lot of time and energy put into Crypti and believe in it and wanted to continue
18:26:01 <fivekbtc> So
18:26:10 <fivekbtc> That's cool
18:26:12 <@GreXX> Yes, Arman is the original investor
18:26:22 <fivekbtc> So, where are you on working with this designer
18:26:29 <@GreXX> He will also be in charge of marketing once we have something to market.
18:26:42 <@GreXX> The logo is done and the site design is on rendition 4 or 5
18:26:44 <fivekbtc> Ok ok
18:26:52 <@GreXX> I am continuing to make tweaks and we are working on some custom graphics
18:27:00 <fivekbtc> Rendition 4 or 5 means?
18:27:03 <@GreXX> It's going well in my mind.
18:27:08 <fivekbtc> Ah ok
18:27:24 <@GreXX> Meaning she works it up, I comment on what I don't like and changes, and then she works on that and gets me the new versoin
18:27:27 <@GreXX> version
18:27:41 <@GreXX> So we have worked through quite a bit so far and I'm feeling really good about it.
18:27:47 <@GreXX> But we still have some things I want to do.
18:27:50 <@GreXX> So its not done yet
18:28:51 <@GreXX> But I am feeling good about it.
18:29:04 <fivekbtc> so, to conclude thus far 0.1.8 is in testing, if no bugs release on monday, logo done, design coming along, boris on the 18th gets to know if he can go or not, developer probably start today/tomorrow (?) developing about to speed up, NRP script recoded. correct so far?
18:29:18 <@GreXX> Yup
18:29:20 <@GreXX> sounds about right
18:29:31 <fivekbtc> okay cool
18:29:35 <fivekbtc> so where do we stand on PoT?
18:29:40 <@GreXX> NRP will be re-coded by the new dev or Boris. Seb wrote the current version but we need something more stable.
18:29:59 <fivekbtc> Ok
18:30:27 <@GreXX> Well PoT has been a huge headache and the brunt of our problems.
18:30:46 <@GreXX> As you know, we had a plan, completely laid out, and it was a catastrophic failure.
18:30:55 <@GreXX> So since then I feel like it has kind of been a scramble to find our way.
18:31:01 <@GreXX> We have 5 or 6 proposal solutions.
18:31:18 <fivekbtc> Agreed, its only to accept this and move on
18:31:19 <@GreXX> but doing a modified DPOS (as I mentioned here last week) seems to be the front runner and best choice
18:31:34 <fivekbtc> Okay, so you're going with that one most likely
18:31:38 <@GreXX> We know we need to scrap PoT and find a different solution, at least in regards to how we have discussed it and built it to now.
18:31:47 <@GreXX> i.e. scrap whatever we thought and start from scratch
18:31:51 <@GreXX> so that is what we did with the new proposals
18:32:05 <@GreXX> You guys have heard seeral of them explained a bit in some previous announcements and posts.
18:32:19 <fivekbtc> yeah, I think it's time for that too
18:32:33 <fivekbtc> so, how long would that take you, if you'd go with DPOS
18:32:50 <@GreXX> Well if we can hire 2 more developers, a lot less time.
18:32:56 <@GreXX> Boris is burnt out.
18:33:00 <fivekbtc> a kinda ballpark here is just fine
18:33:09 <fivekbtc> yeah, I can imagine he has too much on his table
18:33:30 <@GreXX> I mean i'll be honest, he worked some crazy 20 hour days before when we were on a roll and you have to consider how that all effected him as well.
18:33:36 <fivekbtc> so this new developer will surely speed things up, maybe boris works better if he doesnt have fire behind him too, I know I work like this anyway
18:33:41 <@GreXX> i.e. having to start over and acknowledge it woudln't work.
18:33:45 <@GreXX> It wasn't easy for any of us.
18:33:53 <fivekbtc> yep
18:33:54 <fivekbtc> well
18:34:09 <@GreXX> Right, so we are working on that and as mentioned, have finally got everyone to agree to hire temp devs
18:34:10 <fivekbtc> accepting failure is a strong move, sometime it needs to be done
18:34:14 <@GreXX> to get things moving ASAP
18:34:19 <fivekbtc> everything cant work out perfectly from the bat
18:34:22 <fivekbtc> or how one thought about it
18:34:30 <fivekbtc> this is good
18:34:31 <fivekbtc> so
18:34:42 <@GreXX> Well, there is a difference between bugs, and finding out your fundamental principles are too hard for anyone to figure out
18:34:51 <fivekbtc> Where are we on the custom blockchains? I mean, for me, this is probably the main thing about XCR
18:35:06 <@GreXX> So we had worked on it previously at launch because we had a stable (we thought) working client.
18:35:19 <fivekbtc> maybe along the lines, this can be figured out, who knows, but does not seem right to dwell over it now, just look ahead!
18:35:27 <@GreXX> Then our plan was for Boris to immediately start on getting custom chains to market after these database, loading, and memory issues were fixed
18:35:29 <fivekbtc> yeah
18:35:40 <@GreXX> Some of those optimizations are in the next release, but the initial loading time is still long.
18:35:48 <@GreXX> We know the solution to it, but need to have the time to do it.
18:36:09 <fivekbtc> okay, so how long will that take you?
18:36:11 <@GreXX> Between fixing the block explorer, working on getting to Belrus, and some other things, its been too hard to get it all juggled with 1 dev.
18:36:17 <@GreXX> So again, devs is the answer here.
18:36:35 <@GreXX> IF we get the right devs, it won't take long to finish the optimization pieces.
18:36:47 <fivekbtc> yep, maybe this new developer can work on the initial loading time - Crypti goes on CMBs
18:37:00 <fivekbtc> okay so cool
18:37:01 <@GreXX> They need to re-factor the code, do some changes to how it stores the IDs for the new database so it isn't loading 8 bytes per ID, etc.
18:37:06 <@GreXX> blah blah tech stuff
18:37:16 <fivekbtc> so this will take you?
18:37:30 <@GreXX> Bottom line, we believe we know how to get the right optimizations in place to speed things up and get the current version good.
18:37:35 <fivekbtc> because I agree the client must be stable before anything else
18:37:52 <@GreXX> With new devs it shouldn't take long, but I'm weary of a time table until they are in place and we can get them working.
18:38:34 <@GreXX> But, once the new devs are set working on optimizations, we can have Boris focus on Custom Chains (although the trip, if and when it happens will delay it somewhat).
18:38:55 <fivekbtc> yeah so well
18:39:17 <@GreXX> Is 5k the only one with questions? ;-)
18:39:25 <fivekbtc> let's say this: this new developer starts working on the opt tomorrow, and boris on custom chains, how long will a stable client take?
18:39:44 <@GreXX> I can tell you that with new devs and a larger team, progress will be much more fruitful, consistent, and progressive.
18:40:12 <fivekbtc> well, ofcourse..
18:40:15 <@GreXX> But i'm not comfortable with an exact timeline. Those tend to just get me yelled at by you guys louder. ;-)
18:40:51 <karmacoma24> i'm letting fivekbtc take the lead here... listening in though with great interest.
18:41:04 <fivekbtc> I'm just more looking for a ball park here on a stable client
18:45:34 <fivekbtc> not an exact timeline of it, because I'm not tech enough, or got insight so I don't know what we're talking here
18:46:00 <@GreXX> I would say a good dev could probably make the changes quickly.... hold on
18:46:24 <@GreXX> Boris is working on a few things and then wants to make a detailed plan for dev map
18:46:35 <@GreXX> He said once he has it all done he'll get back to me
18:46:36 <fivekbtc> When can this be expected?
18:46:36 <@GreXX> He's working on all of it now
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> Ok, I think this is important too
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> because of the general confusion
18:46:39 <fivekbtc> anyway
18:46:42 <@GreXX> So i'll try to get you a timeline (rough as always) after that
18:46:46 <@GreXX> Well we will be setting up a trello boad I believe for the new devs
18:46:46 <fivekbtc> Say the client is stable, right
18:48:01 <@GreXX> I have brought up the possibility of making it public and will bring it up in the meeting today
18:48:01 <fivekbtc> Ok ok
18:48:01 <fivekbtc> Anyway, say the client is stable, what's the next step?
18:48:02 <@GreXX> Custom chains
18:48:11 <@GreXX> but let me be clear
18:48:21 <@GreXX> we did have major discussions about the algorithm / system change last week
18:48:38 <@GreXX> and once we started talking about DPOS, everyone sort of started to get excited that we might have an answer
18:48:49 <@GreXX> and I think that is where some of the confusion originated in the messages
18:48:59 <@GreXX> I think some thought once we talked about that we were gonig to start development
18:49:01 <@GreXX> and forgot that we set chains as priority
18:50:19 <@GreXX> so it will be re-clarified.
18:50:21 <@GreXX> My goal is to make chains priority 1 once we are stable
18:50:23 <@GreXX> but I will update after todays discussions
18:50:24 <@GreXX> in regards to exactly what its looking like
18:50:25 <@GreXX> As I mentioned last night
18:50:32 <fivekbtc> I agree with this, because we are looking at ETH and XCP, what they're doing, and even what theyre doing to one another with code
18:50:32 <@GreXX> I have been contemplating some possible pivot points as well, that I think need to be considered and have been having some discussions with SyRenity
18:50:40 <fivekbtc> It seems very apparent that CMBs needs to be out sooner than soon
18:50:45 <fivekbtc> so I hope this belarus business comes along quickly
18:50:52 <fivekbtc> and this new developer too
18:51:15 <fivekbtc> but I think you need to give rough timelines, and maybe even give a shot at real timelines too, shows confidence when you have it
18:51:22 <fivekbtc> I think once you hit one of these deadlines you set for yourself
18:51:33 <fivekbtc> it'll be good on all of you
18:51:36 <@GreXX> For starters, I am contemplating and trying to research and reason through the possibility of converting XCR to an XCP asset and running custom chains as a secondary consensus and verification feature on top of XCP using the new turing solution.
18:52:29 <@GreXX> This market is small and narrowing quickly and I don't know how much room exists for another alt chain to really gain ground.
18:53:13 <fivekbtc> This would mean?
18:53:14 <fivekbtc> I see
18:53:15 <@GreXX> The top tier has begun to materialize and take shape to a point where there just really isn't a ton of room to move as an altcoin anymore
18:53:15 <fivekbtc> Maybe this is true, but what would this mean to holders of XCR?
18:53:15 <@GreXX> Starting a chain from scratch and forcing people to buy into an all new ecosystem with much less in regards to services is an uphill battle.
18:53:44 <@GreXX> Not only that, but those other devs have shown extensive ability to quickly copy and turn around features from others that are useful
18:53:46 <@GreXX> look at XCP
18:56:03 <karmacoma24> GreXX: you mean this? http://www.coindesk.com/counterparty-ignites-debate-ethereum-software-integration/
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19:03:02 <@GreXX> yes
19:03:45 <@GreXX> So as mentioned, no matter how great custom chains is, we are trying to to get people to buy in to a new ecosystem from scratch with no secondary services
19:04:00 <@GreXX> all it takes is for 1 established team to integrate a custom chains solution and then what?
19:04:18 <@GreXX> So if we can develop it as a secondary 3rd party feature of a current existing ecosystem
19:04:25 <@GreXX> then we come out ahead I think
19:04:30 <@GreXX> the question is feasability
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19:06:55 <@GreXX> starting meeting, will be a bit pre-occupied.
19:07:20 <@GreXX> Still here though
19:07:32 <karmacoma24> okay thanks GreXX much appreciated!
19:07:47 <@GreXX> Just ask any questsions and i'll try to answer as I go
19:07:56 <karmacoma24> :o)
19:07:57 <@GreXX> or propose ideas if you have some  :-)
19:08:05 <fivekbtc> yea, I'd like an ETA om cmbs!
19:08:06 <fivekbtc> ok so
19:08:18 <fivekbtc> what will this mean for holders of XCR
19:08:22 <fivekbtc> if youd do it like this
19:09:47 <fivekbtc> I mean, what would the value of holding XCR be
19:21:08 <fivekbtc> also XCP is 10 mins blocktimes no? XCR got 1 mins, there's some different use in this
19:42:17 <fivekbtc> I think the best way would still be to do CMBs on your own, then make half a dozen reference implementations, not sure how good XCP would be, you'd put whole XCR in the palm of XCP, and hope their platform work, also I think their stuff take like a day or two to load, imagine with XCR in it too, not sure
19:42:37 <fivekbtc> your guys decisions I suppose, but if you were to release all of this <1 month you could still battle top 15
19:43:16 <fivekbtc> but sure, youd launch an empty service, but youd have to set the path yourselves for how it should be used or how it could be used
19:44:08 <fivekbtc> but I think with XCP, I'm not sure where this leaves all your investors, I don't think for the better, but what do you think yourself?
19:47:48 <@GreXX> I think that XCP is a very strong contender at this point.
19:47:53 <@GreXX> Their valuation and network use is high.
19:48:05 <@GreXX> But i'm not just considering that
19:49:06 <@GreXX> ultimately I would like XCR to be independant of XCP, BTSX, etc, but be available to use as a secondary consensus and verification / security model for everyone. This conversation would takes hours / days and require in depth explanation of quite a bit.
19:49:17 <@GreXX> At the end of the day, there are a lot of options still open
19:49:34 <@GreXX> Right now these are things I am researching, not directions we are taking
19:50:00 <@GreXX> BTC is huge, XCP is getting bigger, Ripple has a lot of money, and BTSX is smart
19:50:24 <@GreXX> If any one of those networks simply copies what we are doing, I think their network strength is very strong and hard to overcome
19:50:32 <@GreXX> So our tenant of doing it easier and better still persists
19:50:47 <@GreXX> Companies have always come to market late and dominated by being more intuitive
19:51:01 <@GreXX> So this is our focus.. the best user experience possible
19:51:06 <fivekbtc> maybe
19:51:28 <fivekbtc> but ETH duplicated XCP in 400 lines of code
19:51:37 <fivekbtc> actually, why not build on top of ETH instead if anything?
19:51:45 <@GreXX> XCP instituted Eths entire system in a few days
19:52:06 <@GreXX> but right, there are multiple options
19:52:19 <@GreXX> I don't actually want to build on top of any particular one but rather find a way through turing to tie into both
19:52:41 <@GreXX> which we may be able to do with our own stand alone block chain / XCR / custom chains
19:52:54 <@GreXX> and use turing to interface all 3
19:53:13 <@GreXX> But this is all still theoretical as eth doens't exist and XCP implementation is still testnet based and early
19:53:48 <fivekbtc> yeah well so
19:54:13 <fivekbtc> most importantly for those reading this later; where would this leave the current holders of XCR?
19:54:32 <@GreXX> So the point is, if we have the system built and functioning, we can still beat others to cross chain implementation if possible.
19:54:36 <fivekbtc> I can't determine myself, since I don't comprehend these systems thoroughly
19:54:39 <@GreXX> Probably much better off
19:55:01 <fivekbtc> better off than now or better off than playing solo?
19:55:05 <@GreXX> you would immediately be part of a much stronger ecosystem with volume and considerable money involved and XCR would still be the fuel for the custom block chains system
19:55:13 <@GreXX> so anyone building a custom chain would still be paying in XCR
19:55:25 <@GreXX> It would immediately probably make the price higher
19:55:29 <@GreXX> but long term I can't predict
19:55:43 <@GreXX> If we can gain the traction, we are always better off with our own stand alone product that we control
19:55:46 <@GreXX> I think that is a given
19:56:06 <@GreXX> So it comes down to whether or not we can gain the traction and carve out a space next to XCP and BTSX and ETH
19:56:13 <@GreXX> which from the beginning we have felt like we could
19:56:29 <@GreXX> but obviously you do begin to question some of your resolve in situations like ours.
19:58:54 <@GreXX> Thats why I prefaced this with "these are angles I am researching and not actual dev goals atm" because these are like contigencies if you will.
20:00:11 <fivekbtc> yeah, well, personally I'd rather you do something than nothing so I'm with you on this one
20:00:20 <fivekbtc> perhaps I'm leaning more towards ETH than XCP if any
20:00:29 <fivekbtc> but then again I dont know ur system, or no1 has evalued them yet
20:00:39 <fivekbtc> so this is obviously your forte
20:01:15 <fivekbtc> but I just feel, as always, investors should be first prio in mind
20:01:28 <@GreXX> Right, I think we continue to focus on developing our own, and then if we are having trouble gaining traction, we can pivot to a 3rd party platform when they are released, if that makes sense.
20:01:30 <fivekbtc> so this is what I ask about, to determine what kind of value it would have to us holding XCR
20:01:49 <fivekbtc> yeah, this makes more sense
20:01:52 <@GreXX> If we have our base, the option to interface with a program on top of XCP and Eth with our chain is more likely
20:02:21 <@GreXX> So build the tech and be ready for several possibilities essentially
20:02:23 <fivekbtc> Try to build your own image, then look at these things to increase traction, even, doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing
20:02:28 <@GreXX> I like to plan ahead though and don't want us to be left out to dry
20:02:29 <fivekbtc> yeah
20:03:05 <fivekbtc> I already said time was at the essence I still think this is, with ETH, btsx, XCP, so new devs are good stuff really
20:03:22 <fivekbtc> rather sooner than later I guess but
20:03:36 <@GreXX> btw the wallet is reloading because I think Boris fixed top accounts just now
20:03:48 <fivekbtc> cool cool
20:03:53 <karmacoma24> nice
20:03:55 <@GreXX> Boris is also briefing and talking to new Dev right now
20:04:03 <@GreXX> we have all agreed to hire him and NDA is signed contract being worked now
20:04:21 <fivekbtc> I am really curious about the ETA on CMBs later, (after opt is done taken into consideration.)  Atleast a ballpark
20:04:23 <fivekbtc> ah, then I see he is busy
20:04:38 <fivekbtc> I'm sure you guys are like 10 people, you'll figure out the best course to go
20:05:01 <@GreXX> We have 8 foundation members plus Seb and new dev
20:05:02 <fivekbtc> but let's always remember the investors in these stressful times
20:05:12 <fivekbtc> like superstars and their fans right?
20:05:13 <@GreXX> Trust me, I bring you guys up at least 10 times a day
20:05:19 <@GreXX> some by name
20:05:39 <@GreXX> for you louder folks (looking at you 5k and Wulf)
20:05:46 <fivekbtc> Haha, ok, just making sure, this is good
20:07:19 <fivekbtc> I just feel like investors and developers relation is much like superstars and fans anyway, I like this one, without the fans there is no superstar, but sometimes they forget, but anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out the best outcome just making sure!
20:07:22 <fivekbtc> anyway
20:07:35 <fivekbtc> I was wondering about this also
20:07:54 <fivekbtc> The BTER fee at 1%, Poloniex and Cryptsy, has been coming up for some time
20:07:54 <fivekbtc> I think about a month
20:08:25 <fivekbtc> Action needs to made in these regards, I noticed you talk Poloniex talked with Boris along the steps, and they did not fix this, which is weird, BTER did it in under an hour I recall
20:08:43 <fivekbtc> so I was wondering perhaps someone else in your team can set up the communication with Poloniex
20:08:53 <fivekbtc> and Boris hands them the instructions and walk them through it
20:08:57 <fivekbtc> is this possible?
20:09:00 <karmacoma24> well said fivekbtc...
20:09:39 <fivekbtc> since I realise Boris is busy you know, and a lot of things are top prios, but maybe something can be done here
20:10:17 <@GreXX> It's not a matter of not understanding Boris, the Poloniex Dev seems incompentant to me. I'm not bashing anyone but he is basically asking Boris to implement and help fix their shit system.
20:10:33 <@GreXX> I mean you are correct, BTER was actually done with implementation in a matter of minutes once they started.
20:10:45 <@GreXX> Something to do with how Poloniex system is built just is haywire
20:10:57 <@GreXX> and they can say i'm full of shit all they want, but i've never seen anything like it
20:11:14 <@GreXX> Boris has been in touch with their dev several days this week and still they havent been able to fix it.
20:11:46 <@GreXX> Cryptsy on the other hand has been not responding to Boris
20:11:47 <karmacoma24> yeah i think we can all agree poloniex has it's own peculiar way of doing things...
20:11:54 <@GreXX> So we have asked SyRenity to get in touch with them.
20:12:12 <@GreXX> To see if it will make a difference as he is the one that worked with them to get it working in the beginning
20:12:29 <@GreXX> Cryptsy probably put it low on the totem pole due to lack of volume would be my guess.
20:12:37 <@GreXX> But SyRenity is going to try and address it himself.
20:13:07 <karmacoma24> any timeframe on that?
20:13:08 <@GreXX> As far as BTER goes, I know he said he would contact Lin and discuss it, we even agreed to offer him 10 BTC if need be to get it removed, but I am not sure where it stands and will ask for an update.
20:13:27 <@GreXX> Should be ASAP Karma, I will remind him before the meeting is over about both issues.
20:13:36 <karmacoma24> ok
20:14:15 <@GreXX> I agree that this is unacceptable and know how it seems.
20:14:25 <@GreXX> All I can do is go back and try to push to get it fixed.
20:14:31 <@GreXX> Actions louder than words, you know.
20:14:50 <karmacoma24> yeah for sure...
20:14:57 <@GreXX> Please just keep in mind I relay all of your issues and constantly work to help resolve whatever I can. At the end of the day, I can't program and can only relay what I get back.
20:15:16 <@GreXX> But I continue to push, sometimes with colorful language.
20:15:47 <@GreXX> I mentioned to someone the other day, if you could see some of our internal conversations you would see my military side coming out
20:15:49 <@GreXX> ;-)
20:16:05 <karmacoma24> lol
20:17:40 <fivekbtc> ok so
20:18:00 <fivekbtc> the poloniex and cryptsy markets were never huge on XCR
20:18:22 <fivekbtc> but, I estimate like maybe 300 or 400k coins in both these exchanges are stuck in limbo
20:18:39 <fivekbtc> and this is leaving some out to dry, as this is not much, but, to some I reckon it might be
20:18:58 <fivekbtc> it's an issue, but as you say, you can only do what you can do to get them to fix this
20:19:18 <@GreXX> I assure you I am pushing it
20:19:27 <fivekbtc> I know Vern is slow on the response side, but then again there are a massive amount of currencies there and since market is small, its probably not on the top of the list
20:19:31 <@GreXX> and SyRenity will be addressing this to keep Boris freed up for his other tasks
20:19:41 <@GreXX> and to spin up the new dev
20:20:10 <fivekbtc> but it's essential to the eco of xcr, to keep a flow later for arbitrage and transactions made, once its of a more stable nature and hopefully bigger too
20:20:45 <fivekbtc> well, I need not remind of this, you all know this, we can only hope Cryptsy responds and Poloniex fixes this somehow, I'm sure nobody likes having their cash stuck in limbo regardless of how much it is
20:20:55 <fivekbtc> hmm
20:21:05 <fivekbtc> so I think, we can expect a stable client hopefully monday
20:21:20 <fivekbtc> and the new developer on the side of fixing it further so boris can focus on CMBs
20:21:52 <fivekbtc> I think what you can do, not sure, set up some contacts with altcurrency journalists
20:22:05 <fivekbtc> I think Node did a pretty good job, they got some exposure through marketing
20:22:40 <fivekbtc> I'm thinking, I was speaking to Crypti earlier, that after the opt issues are done for and client is stable, CMBs should be under a month
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20:22:51 <fivekbtc> although I am not sure of this
20:24:04 <fivekbtc> I think you should stick your neck out once more, I know Boris is working this roadmap with rough estimates
20:24:11 <fivekbtc> by that I mean
20:24:14 <fivekbtc> after opt issues are done
20:24:58 <@GreXX> Well Nodes price went up because they put out there forging (which is drastically different than what they proposed) and then people had to go buy 500,000 node to forge
20:25:02 <@GreXX> so it jumped the price.
20:25:22 <fivekbtc> provide a CMB deadline, set up all marketing contacts needed, get a plan for it and see it through
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20:25:37 <@GreXX> Right 5k, so remember previously we had said 3-4 weeks tentaive for CMB development
20:25:48 <fivekbtc> I think if Boris goes to Belarus the 18th, and you get working with the new developer and see what he can do
20:26:03 <fivekbtc> in about a week or so, you should be able to provide a good estimate for this
20:26:46 <fivekbtc> to offer my own opinion, I think boris should work on CMBs, then when it's out, work on it, and maybe by this point you have another developer who can do half a dozen reference implementations for cmbs, and boris can stay on it
20:27:04 <fivekbtc> Node did a good job on the marketing front
20:27:20 <fivekbtc> once a stable client, and CMBs are up, marketing would be a good move
20:27:44 <fivekbtc> since bottom line forgers are what makes network work, and more of these always good for network security
20:28:13 <@GreXX> Its always been our plan to market at the launch of CMBs
20:28:19 <@GreXX> We just havent been able to get there
20:28:55 <fivekbtc> 500k for forging is cool, creates some value in this network, the instant transactions is cool, but its more of a payment processor than a good investment to me, but I can see it have some use for sure
20:29:02 <@GreXX> And the outline you just referenced above is exactly what I am communicating is our plan as of right now
20:29:18 <@GreXX> No, its a currency built for merchants and commerce and they are tying up millions in forging fees and taking it out of circulation
20:29:40 <@GreXX> Its not instant transactions either
20:29:44 <fivekbtc> I rarely see investing in cryptocurrencies as actually investing in currencies, it seems more to me like buying a piece of software per say, atleast when it comes to alts they rarely see real world use
20:29:50 <@GreXX> all currencies technically have instant transactions
20:29:57 <@GreXX> they still require the same timeframe for actual confirmation
20:30:12 <PabloAngello_> so will there be any update in next few days?
20:30:14 PabloAngello_ → PabloAngello
20:30:33 <fivekbtc> okay, I haven't fully researched on Node as much as I know about XCR so
20:30:37 <karmacoma24> hello PabloAngello :o)
20:30:44 <PabloAngello> karmacoma24, hello ;)
20:30:51 <PabloAngello> I have read some of above conversation
20:30:52 <PabloAngello> but not all
20:30:56 <fivekbtc> I had them in thought for a project I had, but their network needs to have some uptime and show stability for like a year before something can be based on it
20:31:17 <fivekbtc> hmm PabloAngello, I think I've asked all I want to know
20:32:14 <fivekbtc> 0.1.8 on monday if it passes testing, boris belarus 18th if he can go there, new developer joining today gonna speed it up, after stable client code cmbs pref 3-4 weeks to make this reality
20:32:37 <fivekbtc> poloniex/cryptsy worked on, bter too, but non responsive exchanges, but XCR team will try harder
20:32:40 <PabloAngello> what will be fixed/added in 0.1.8?
20:33:08 <karmacoma24> PabloAngello: hopefully stability and memory usage
20:33:15 <karmacoma24> new db engine
20:33:23 <@GreXX> Its an entirely new database structure that is the first component of the optimization for memory usage, load times, and several other performance fixes.
20:33:59 <PabloAngello> GreXX, so 0.1.8 will bring better forging ok, what next? Another 3-4 weeks of whole community waiting for some update/features added at last?
20:34:09 <PabloAngello> morale is low
20:34:54 <PabloAngello> GreXX, you can speak with enthusiasts like us here, but crypti community is bigger than we here, any plan to calm it?
20:40:10 <Vagnavs> Thanks
20:40:12 <Wulfcastle> Thanks :)
20:40:19 <karmacoma24> no prob...
20:40:55 <@GreXX> haha I just realized I shortened your name to Vag
20:41:00 <@GreXX> that has some bad conotations
20:44:40 <@GreXX> It will probably take them a while to get caught up
20:49:21 <fivekbtc> so this new dev
20:49:29 <fivekbtc> anything you can say about this
20:49:49 <fivekbtc> if not, atleast when he signs
20:49:55  ↔ Wulfcastle nipped out
20:51:29 <fivekbtc> I'm sure a lot of people would chin up a bit if they know it's someone good who's previously done a lot of work! including myself as it would mean times are really a changing I guess!
20:51:30 <Wulfcastle> Okay I'm still reading through the PastBin, but I got a few questions here GreXX
20:52:03 <@GreXX> I can't post his information. He is not a crypto dev, but a real programmer
20:52:19 <@GreXX> Maybe once he's fully hired we can discuss him doing an introduction
20:52:36 <@GreXX> I will be having a meeting with Boris, SyRenity, and the new dev later today I think
20:53:18 <@GreXX> We will do some kind of introduction
20:53:26 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX, reading though a quote of yours from earlier today :"For starters, I am contemplating and trying to research and reason through the possibility of converting XCR to an XCP asset and running custom chains as a secondary consensus and verification feature on top of XCP using the new turing solution."
20:53:56 <Wulfcastle> I'm guessing that you are making a push to convert XCR to a XCP Asset?
20:54:19 <@GreXX> I go into this considerably more throughout the course of the conversation Wulf
20:54:29 <@GreXX> There are quite a few sections where I expand.
20:55:04 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX, in my opinion, that would quite simply be the death of Crypti
20:55:17 <@GreXX> Continue reading please.
20:55:31 <@GreXX> There is a lot more to that comment
20:56:03 <@GreXX> While I don't actually agree with you on that, you've only read a small portion of the conversation on that.
20:58:23 <Vagnavs> Okay I'm updated
20:58:37 <Wulfcastle> I've read through all of it I believe. Here is the reasoning behind my opinion. What you would essentially be doing is locking Crypti down to a single platform, that being XCP. Now that means that the only people using Crypti would be those that are already making use of XCP. What happens if XCP declines in popularity?
20:59:54 <Wulfcastle> That leads then to a decline in the amount of users using Crypti. You are essentially putting the whole project in the hands of XCP.
21:00:29 <Wulfcastle> The only reason XCP has gotten anywhere in the past few months is as a result of their joint venture with Overstock.com
21:03:16 <Wulfcastle> What happens if Ethereum, BlockStream, BitShares replace XCP? Again Crypti would then be dead in the water.
21:03:18 <@GreXX> What happens if BTC declines, or Crypti itself, etc etc? So if you read the entire thing, then you would see that I said I am researching in essence contingencies.
21:03:35 <@GreXX> That my ultimate goal would be to have our own system that can interface through a turing solution with both XCP and Eth later on
21:03:49 <@GreXX> Which is part of why I continually talk about Crypti in essence partially being its own supernet
21:04:17 <@GreXX> Their joint venture with Overstock and their announcement that they instituted Turing solution from Etheruem into XCP
21:04:23 <@GreXX> so basically its ethereum with slower blocks now
21:04:28 <@GreXX> or in testing at least
21:06:19 <@GreXX> The point was we still develop it now, but be prepared that if XCP or someone else continues to rise and we gain no traction, we be prepared to pivot before they or someone else can push to copy or reproduce our functions on their chains.
21:07:14 <Vagnavs> Can Boris come online and answer some questions? I know his English is not very good. But could answer with yes or no
21:07:58 <@GreXX> Hes extremely busy right now.
21:08:24 <@GreXX> I don't think thats going to happen, hes briefing and working with the new dev right now... hes barely in our meeting
21:08:24 <Vagnavs> Okay well perhaps when he has some free time
21:08:25 <fivekbtc> I think mainly XCR should do it's own thing with CMBs then make half a dozen reference implementations, and consider ETH to increase traction down the line, as opposed to only use it as a way to gain tractions, I think CMBs will be enough to get interest, if marketing is done in a good way, and you get good developers to pitch in
21:08:29 <Wulfcastle> Okay, so unless XCR gains no traction, Crypti will remain an independant network as it currently is?
21:08:49 <@GreXX> Yes Wulf
21:09:01 <@GreXX> we would only pivot if its not working or we hurt other major hurdles
21:09:18 <Wulfcastle> Ah okay. Thanks for that clarification.
21:09:23 <@GreXX> and it may not be a pivot, it may be additional markets at that point if we get a strong foothold
21:09:44 <@GreXX> and as I mentioned with that talk as well wulf, this is all my research and proposals and ideas, not anything decided by or voted on by the team
21:09:53 <@GreXX> these are things I am preparing contingencies and working through
21:10:08 <@GreXX> to think ahead and prepare for worst case or not so good case scenarios
21:10:20 <Vagnavs> I'd suggest setting up a free base camp account
21:10:53 <Vagnavs> Have the team sign up and then can see the progress
21:11:37 <@GreXX> We will possibly have a public trello board
21:11:51 <@GreXX> not final yet but thats what we are pushing
21:11:52 <Vagnavs> How about the web design?
21:12:06 <@GreXX> I also commented on that earlier I believe
21:12:26 <Wulfcastle> Okay, second question. Do you have any time frame on v0.1.8? It was supposed to be out last week, but it hasn't even entered testing yet.
21:12:37 <@GreXX> That is also in the paste
21:12:45 <@GreXX> Ok theres no way you read it all!
21:13:07 <@GreXX> We had a lengthy discussion about new version too in tehre somewhere
21:13:11 <@GreXX> is it not a complete paste?
21:13:20 <Vagnavs> I see it
21:13:34 <karmacoma24> it is complete...
21:13:39 <Wulfcastle> Wait hold on, lemme check
21:13:58 <Vagnavs> 18:29:04 <fivekbtc> so, to conclude thus far 0.1.8 is in testing, if no bugs release on monday, logo done, design coming along, boris on the 18th gets to know if he can go or not, developer probably start today/tomorrow (?) developing about to speed up, NRP script recoded. correct so far?
21:13:58 <Vagnavs> 18:29:18 <@GreXX> Yup
21:14:24 <@GreXX> thats a short piece where he summed it
21:14:31 <@GreXX> but we break it down more if you go to that section wulf
21:15:07 <Wulfcastle> Okay thanks, must have missed that section :P
21:18:16 <@GreXX> No worries
21:18:18 <Wulfcastle> 3rd Question. What happened to the introductory video that was supposed to be made about Crypti? I remember it being mentioned a looong while back, but no update on it since
21:18:21 <@GreXX> Just don't want to type it all out again
21:18:31 <Wulfcastle> Sure no prob
21:19:02 <@GreXX> Yeah, so we have had a script since before launch
21:19:17 <@GreXX> We were waiting for the new site design to start and get ready for the video I guess?
21:19:22 <@GreXX> I honestly don't have a good answer on that one
21:19:41 <@GreXX> We had a studio picked out and a script written
21:19:53 <@GreXX> so it came up the other day that we need to review the script to get it ready for the new site launch
21:20:03 <@GreXX> So we haven't forgotten about it, but we never started production.
21:20:10 <@GreXX> Which may be a good thing because it would need to be reproduced now
21:22:06 <fivekbtc> I think how XCP is going is actually good for XCR, now people got their eyes open for this kind of tech
21:22:52 <fivekbtc> And when they realize the difference is a $100k mcap coin, and a $18mm one, it's a good day for us, anyone can see this upside potential
21:23:05 <fivekbtc> but that being said, once out, the developing of this platform needs to be swift..
21:23:11 <Wulfcastle> Yeah it's probably best to finish off the website design first as well, that way you could replicate Christine's visual style used and the website can set a consistent visual style for the introductory video.
21:23:28 <fivekbtc> as you say, someone can replicate it fast, just like someone can replicate XCP or ETH, so, time for CMBs is sooner than later
21:24:04 <fivekbtc> this ETA I hope Boris can shed some light on, and that he can work full time on this and the other dude can solve the client part of things
21:24:39 <fivekbtc> but I like your train of thought Grexx, thinking outside the box with XCP/ETH, maybe its good, maybe it isnt, but good thinking, that you might have to adapt to stay viable here
21:25:11 <fivekbtc> I think in a room of 8-10 people or what foundation+devs are, a lot of good ideas come out of it, brainstorming sessions are good
21:25:30 <fivekbtc> the only downside I can think of is maybe the decisionmaking isnt
21:25:43 <fivekbtc> but when the time comes I hope for fast decisions
21:26:35 <fivekbtc> and that we stop dwelling over PoT for now, and focus on this, set an ETA for CMBs see it through and maybe bring a more positive atmosphere all around so some innovation can take place
21:27:36 <@GreXX> So I have been trying to develop a community team for a while
21:27:43 <fivekbtc> I hope for some clarifications on the technical side of things soon too, so we can get a better grasp of what CMBs really is, when the time for that is right thats up to you to decide
21:27:52 <@GreXX> I am proposing changes to the structure of Crypti away from a foundation and to a more structure accountability system
21:28:03 <@GreXX> Part of that is bringing in the community team as a division within the organization
21:28:35 <@GreXX> Which in turn would mean bringing that teams key members in to weekly meetings to help relay information, gauge impact, and put in ideas from a community perspective
21:29:16 <Wulfcastle> Sounds interesting. But would the foundation members approve of it?
21:30:24 <Vagnavs> These foundations turned out to be more work than they're worth
21:30:31 <Vagnavs> Turn
21:30:42 <Wulfcastle> i.e. Generally community based teams will work harder, but also can sometimes be loose cannons
21:30:55 <Vagnavs> Couple coins been involved with, power struggle
21:31:44 <@GreXX> The foundation structure is slow and overly complicated
21:31:53 <fivekbtc> yeah Vagnavs, it just becomes very ineffective to make decisions on the con side, but to come with ideas on the pros side
21:32:09 <@GreXX> We have addressed it initialy in todays meeting and tomorrow will be reviewing my proposal and trying to come to a final decision soon
21:32:16 ⇐ Barie quit ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 240 seconds
21:32:25 <Vagnavs> Okay
21:32:41 <Vagnavs> It's hard to tell who's running the ship here
21:33:00 <@GreXX> correct
21:33:06 <@GreXX> Even internally
21:33:10 <@GreXX> it can be an issue
21:33:32 <fivekbtc> Wulfcastle said this too, it's sometimes contradicting statements, etc, very confusing at times
21:34:02 → Barie joined ([email protected])
21:34:30 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX Yes, there was a contradiction between one of your statements and BitSeed's regarding Custom Blockchains
21:34:36 <fivekbtc> I think it does good to be more transparent with everything, rather than lock it down to a foundation, and then keep the final decisions to the core developers, from what I gather from most communities, core developers should have total authority, as people generally respect them more over this
21:34:48 <@GreXX> Hmm in regards to what Wulf?
21:35:50 <@GreXX> Just curious as Mike and I are usually on the same wavelength
21:37:07 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX, you mentioned (in the latest developer update on the blog) that Custom Blockhains are not affected by the PoT algorithm, which is why you guys were prioritizing CMB's over PoT. BitSeed on the other hand mentioned about a month ago, that PoT had to be fixed before CMB's could be implemented as "changes to the PoT algorithm would affect everything downstream"
21:37:59 <Wulfcastle> Here's BitSeed's Statement : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.msg9038692#msg9038692
21:38:14 <@GreXX> I think that was from a direction perspective. I think he was considering that if we changed the entire system we might need to re-calculate how we progress.
21:38:36 <@GreXX> But the custom block chains solution could be built on the current temporary solution, PoT, anything we developed really
21:38:43 <PabloAngello> again much written
21:38:51 <PabloAngello> I'm working dont have time to read everything
21:38:54 <PabloAngello> tl;dr ?: p
21:38:58 <@GreXX> I think this was clarified in our meeting shortly after when we determined we would change
21:39:12 <@GreXX> to focusing on Custom chains
21:39:22 <@GreXX> and Boris clarified that the 2 were not directly dependant on one another
21:39:26 <Wulfcastle> Okay, thanks for clearing that up too
21:39:39 <fivekbtc> How many guys are in on making decisions?
21:39:47 <@GreXX> All 8
21:39:59 <@GreXX> with SyRenity as tie breaker
21:40:19 <fivekbtc> who are these 8?
21:40:41 <Wulfcastle> The foundation members, fivekbtc
21:41:06 <fivekbtc> yeah, I have a hard time keeping check what they do and who they are, I know most but probably forget someone
21:41:36 <@GreXX> Myself, Boris, Arman, SyRenity, Mike, Eric, William, and Max
21:41:37 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX, is SyRenity still around. Haven't seen him in the BCT Thread in ages
21:41:51 <@GreXX> I actually brought that up with him in the last couple days
21:41:57 <@GreXX> He's around a lot
21:42:21 <@GreXX> But keep in mind, as I mentioned, SyRenity, Mike, and I were brought on as consultants to help design and launch Crypti
21:42:35 <Wulfcastle> Is SyRenity not a developer?
21:42:42 <@GreXX> But its not the only thing any of us were obligated to or working on when this started
21:42:49 <@GreXX> Just like Crypti isn't just one project
21:43:10 <@GreXX> SyRenity had another project he has been working on for over a year and a half
21:43:10 <fivekbtc> I think 8 is a worrysome number, in terms of quick decisions, all of these 8 has to be online at the same time too and discuss every single bit of XCR?
21:44:30 <@GreXX> precisely
21:45:02 <@GreXX> So anyways as I was saying, the team of SyRenity, Mike, and I had other projects we were developing that all got stopped to launch Crypti and then we were asked to stay on and form what is the core team for Crypti post launch
21:45:04 <Vagnavs> Probably need a shakeup
21:45:38 <@GreXX> As Mike often mentions the Coinbox project and some others
21:45:55 <fivekbtc> but aren't atleast half of these guys non-tech guys making influencing tech direction?
21:46:03 <@GreXX> Not necessarily
21:46:28 <Wulfcastle> @GreXX, thanks for clearing up all those questions.
21:46:34 <Wulfcastle> Cheers everyone!
21:46:40 <@GreXX> you have to go ?
21:46:55 <Vagnavs> Will you be back?
21:47:27 <Wulfcastle> Yeah man, going out now. I might be back in a few hours though, if you're still online
21:48:07 <Vagnavs> Okay
21:48:14 ⇐ Wulfcastle quit ([email protected]) Quit: Bye!
21:49:00 <fivekbtc> I agree, this foundation of 8 people isn't good, the people in it are good people sure, but having 8 people discussing and having to decide over every single bit of XCR business isn't good
21:49:13 <fivekbtc> on the techside, shouldn't boris be the single decidor of all things
21:49:38 <@GreXX> No, I would strongly disagree with that sentiment
21:50:00 <@GreXX> He can program sure, but he didn't design any of the systems or implementations
21:50:05 <fivekbtc> also if I can be blunt here, what did you do between the network went up (early october) to now?
21:50:36 <fivekbtc> hmm
21:50:59 <fivekbtc> well, I can only see one the one side 8 people deciding over every single thing is gonna be leading this to be very ineffective, and on the other it leads to many ideas coming up
21:51:11 <@GreXX> We did 6 renditions to try to fix the forking which was fixed and then fix consensus, and then rebuilt the entire network to the current version, released an explorer, a faucet, designed 6 new proof implementations no one has built before
21:51:23 <@GreXX> Do you mean me personally or the foundation as a whole /
21:51:27 <Vagnavs> Yes too many cooks in the kitchen
21:51:47 <@GreXX> 5k, I completely agree and have acknowledged multiple times that its slow and a problem
21:51:51 <@GreXX> and that I have proposed to change it
21:51:52 <fivekbtc> nah, I meant whole xcr team
21:52:01 <fivekbtc> well, that's the problem hehe..
21:52:34 <@GreXX> We also half finished the new website, lol
21:52:37 <fivekbtc> you've proposed it, a week or two ago? then you discuss it, in a week or two maybe, then you decide, in a week or two. (i'm exaggerating) just on top of my head here
21:52:53 <@GreXX> well this issue I am pushing faster
21:52:53 <@GreXX> but yes
21:53:11 <@GreXX> For isntance we first proposed having to re-do PoT, scrap it and start something new from scratch, what, 2 months ago?
21:53:22 <@GreXX> Then we put together proposals and discussed them for a month and a half
21:53:34 <@GreXX> we still dont have a final answer nor have we started to break code on a new design
21:53:37 <@GreXX> case in point
21:53:52 <fivekbtc> I think if XCR is going to have any future, 8 people isnt gonna cut it, if by looking at history, not much has been made lol
21:53:53 <@GreXX> Trust me, I get it
21:54:05 <@GreXX> We've actually built quite a bit
21:54:17 <@GreXX> considering we built 2 completely new implementaiton systems no one had built before from scratch
21:54:19 <@GreXX> and both worked
21:54:23 <@GreXX> to an extent
21:54:53 <@GreXX> I don't know if you've ever built a crypto currency from scratch but its actaully quite a bit of work.
21:54:58 <@GreXX> We've now technically built 2
21:55:09 <@GreXX> Just neither one is really what we wanted to build
21:55:12 <@GreXX> :-/
21:55:30 <fivekbtc> well, could you explain peoples roles in this foundation and how they are eligible to vote on tech decisions
21:57:29 <fivekbtc> and when you say we, isn't it boris and syrenity who made this currency, and the rest handled other sections (designs, coinbox, website) etc?
21:58:24 <@GreXX> coinbox isnt a part of Crypti
21:58:27 <@GreXX> its a separate project
21:58:42 <@GreXX> And I think you misunderstand the difference between designing something and coding it
21:59:07 <@GreXX> IF I give Karma a reference document with algorithms and a roadmap to how to build something right now, I bet he could build it.
21:59:22 <@GreXX> Does that mean it is his and he understands it better than anyone?
21:59:35 <@GreXX> and should be solely responsible for it?
21:59:58 <@GreXX> Have you ever been in a startup or a small business?
22:00:28 <@GreXX> If you make product decision without input from multiple facets of your business, you miss things, you make horrible decisions, and you don't have the whole picture
22:00:50 <@GreXX> A marketing expert doesn't understand how code works, but a coder doesn't understand what the people want or market demand for features
22:01:04 <fivekbtc> yeah I run my own business, and I do need input here and there
22:01:17 <fivekbtc> but if it were 8 people deciding on every bit of my business, it would be dead now
22:01:35 <@GreXX> Well you guys voted to do it this way
22:01:42 <@GreXX> The community wanted input, seats on the board, and a foundation
22:01:58 <@GreXX> they also wanted vested stake, escrow, and many other things that ended up a disaster
22:02:12 <@GreXX> We tried to take community input and be a coin built by the community and it actually caused one hell of a headache in many instances
22:02:21 <@GreXX> These were things voted on by the initial investors in the pre-sale
22:02:30 <@GreXX> or at least, many of them were
22:02:45 <fivekbtc> that was couple months ago
22:02:48 <fivekbtc> anyway
22:02:57 <@GreXX> Also, many, many corporations run with a board that makes decisions
22:03:02 <fivekbtc> I was umm, asking the questions above
22:03:03 <@GreXX> It works in certain industries and busines models
22:03:18 <@GreXX> but not in the startup culture in an industry that moves at this pace
22:03:41 <fivekbtc> I agree, and definitely not when everyone is on different timezones and can only come together on saturdays
22:04:05 <@GreXX> Boris and SyRenity didn't make this coin and i'm not sure where you get that from.
22:04:21 <@GreXX> Boris programmed it and SyRenity was nominatd to run the team as project manager / CEO in a sense
22:04:43 <@GreXX> I take quite a bit of offense to that
22:04:44 <fivekbtc> I phrased it as a question if you take a look at it
22:05:06 <fivekbtc> No need, because it was not intended to
22:06:10 <fivekbtc> there isn't a whole lot of transparency outside of the foundation, so it's hard to know a lot of things!
22:06:23 <fivekbtc> anyway -> well, could you explain peoples roles in this foundation and how they are eligible to vote on tech decisions
22:06:26 <Vagnavs> I'll be just around
22:07:15 <Vagnavs> It is a difficult structure
22:07:54 <@GreXX> Boris is lead programmer
22:07:58 <@GreXX> SyRenity is project lead
22:07:59 <fivekbtc> I'm thinking, maybe something we can take from this going forward is that, the foundation bit does not work effectively for all sections of XCR, which was what I was aiming to say
22:08:00 <@GreXX> Arman is Marketing Lead
22:08:08 <@GreXX> Mike is research lead
22:08:18 <@GreXX> I am Community Relations, PR, and Design lead
22:08:26 <@GreXX> Max and William are community advisors
22:08:39 <@GreXX> Eric is Quality Control / Test
22:08:40 <fivekbtc> Okay so
22:09:10 <fivekbtc> Perhaps switch to a little more independent model, where everyone decides on their own section of work
22:09:33 <@GreXX> The structure I have laid out provides for divisions based on product / task with each having a project manager
22:09:38 <@GreXX> that reports to a COO and CEO
22:09:54 <@GreXX> Each PM responsible for their invididual division or project
22:10:12 <@GreXX> and a more aggresive model of lack of results means you're fired.
22:11:06 <fivekbtc> I don't think any piece of business can survive if every tiny bit has to be decided in a group of 8
22:11:46 <fivekbtc> You can bring up big decisions to that, sure..
22:13:05 <@GreXX> I agree, we are working on changing it
22:13:23 <fivekbtc> but I think if you look at the history of XCR, and going forward, the foundation structure has done more bad than good. I base this on the fact that almost nothing has been done, and looking forward, it will probably be the same with the same structure
22:13:26 <fivekbtc> hmm
22:13:35 <fivekbtc> well, maybe there needs to be nothing said more to this regard then
22:13:44 <fivekbtc> but, when are you doing it is the question I guess?
22:15:10 <fivekbtc> if Syrenity is project leader, he should be the total authority along with Boris I think
22:15:20 <fivekbtc> instead of voting on things, just telling everyone what they should be doing
22:15:29 <fivekbtc> its a more effective way of doing things since time is at the essence
22:16:11 <@GreXX> Well, all I can say is that I put out the timeline to make this change if we make it, and its hard to understand what the structure should be or who should do what roles without having been a part of the organization
22:16:35 <fivekbtc> if you do not change the underlying problem of effectivity, then even if you deliver cmbs in 3 or 4 weeks time i don't see you becoming any more efficient in doing things unless syrenity takes some sorta control here
22:16:47 <fivekbtc> else its just gonna be 8 people all with *somewhat* different views of what xcr should be
22:16:51 <fivekbtc> this is very bad
22:17:33 <fivekbtc> I don't think so, I'm just voicing my opinion so I don't speak for everyone
22:17:47 <fivekbtc> but this foundation is not the effective way of doing things
22:18:07 <@GreXX> SyRenity is currently the Lead
22:18:22 <@GreXX> and is responsible for day to day operations
22:18:54 <fivekbtc> Then he should decide on all decisions, maybe Boris too
22:19:03 <@GreXX> Wow
22:19:50 <@GreXX> Ok, we have discussed this and I laid out what we are planning to do to fix it, we are having the same conversation over and over.
22:20:48 <@GreXX> If you think that Mike, Myself, and the other team members shouldnt have a say in the organization or its decisions, then that is your opinion.
22:21:09 <fivekbtc> Nah, that's not what I am saying
22:21:25 <fivekbtc> I'm saying someone should take the lead
22:21:39 <fivekbtc> maybe you can still make bigger decisions in 8, but not all
22:22:30 <karmacoma24> one question: we've had a really good insight into your vision of crypti's future, which btw i really like. how does it differ from the other foundation members?
22:22:31 <PabloAngello> looks like I forget 160 XCR in a few hours : | with 3 nodes
22:23:01 <@GreXX> Depends on the member Karma
22:23:03 <@GreXX> ;-)
22:25:16 <@GreXX> Case in point, we had 6 items I think to address today in our meeting
22:25:17 <karmacoma24> nice one PabloAngello ;o)
22:25:21 <@GreXX> we are on item like 3
22:25:44 <fivekbtc> I was mostly focusing on making the effectivity better since it's an underlying issue we've witnessed, this isn't weird really, there's always a starting single authority in nearly every business, in startups you need dictatorship, and when you actually have big things to decide, a board is made
22:26:28 <fivekbtc> else it's pretty much sitting discussing not much to discuss about, decisions needs to be made swiftly in the start
22:26:32 <fivekbtc> thats my view anyway
22:26:44 <karmacoma24> ok, so who did the majority of the design/algo work (not programming)? just curious...
22:27:05 <@GreXX> 5k I know that and have already discussed it in depth and acknowledge it. I just would argue about some of your presumptions.
22:27:16 <karmacoma24> i always looks to who did the most graft...
22:27:38 <@GreXX> I designed, documented, and came up with the idea for the system, Mike helped me with most of the Algos and gave them to Boris, and then Boris coded them.
22:27:54 <@GreXX> scratch that, mike basically wrote all the algos
22:27:55 <karmacoma24> when i was a cyclist, it was the guy on the front of the peloton digging into a headwind...
22:27:57 <@GreXX> hes our resident engineer
22:28:13 <@GreXX> hes finds ways to make my crazy ideas function
22:30:09 <karmacoma24> hmm, ok my respect to you, mike and boris then... ;o)
22:31:21 <fivekbtc> maybe, I'm sure you get my point anyway.. I know you all did your work in XCR, and you like it like I do, but on the same way, presumptions or not, if you want this to become a reality this foundation should stop for a while, and someone need to make a few quick calls, tell everyone what to do for now, then it can resume, I don't mind whoever it is in the foundation who would be doing it,
22:32:05 <fivekbtc> but I think, this currency is worth about $1000 now, so some dictatorship would do it good
22:32:07 <fivekbtc> if you catch my drift
22:33:24 <fivekbtc> well, I think thats all my questions anyway!
22:33:34 <fivekbtc> Thanks for a healthy discussion Grexx
22:33:50 <karmacoma24> good job fivekbtc
22:34:03 <karmacoma24> thanks again GreXX
22:34:35 <Vagnavs> Yeah thanks Greg
22:35:16 <Vagnavs> I'm a bit out of words
22:35:35 <@GreXX> Well Karma, we all had inputs on all aspects
22:36:26 <@GreXX> but thats the general pipeline structure
22:36:35 <@GreXX> Yeah guys, np, thanks for still being here to talk to
22:36:35 <@GreXX> lol
22:37:19 <karmacoma24> don't worry we diehard...
22:37:39 <@GreXX> Well me too
22:37:46 <@GreXX> I promise i'm as passionate about this project as anyone
22:38:01 <@GreXX> Every minute I have outside of my military job and my kids and wife is spent trying to fix this
22:39:43 <@GreXX> Or some like right now I multitask, lol
22:40:01 <@GreXX> meeting with you guys, the team, and trying to keep my children from lighting my house on fire
22:40:12 <karmacoma24> lol
22:44:41 <fivekbtc> yeah we in this together, it's all good, my only underlying sentiment was that going forward some kind of leadership could be better than 8 for now until we're up to speed!
22:44:59 <fivekbtc> karmacoma24, you can compile this?
22:45:27 <karmacoma24> yeah sure
22:45:53 <fivekbtc> looking forward to ETA on CMBs later, and some info on this new developer, it's exciting, other than that I think we summed up everything, atleast what I wanted to know
22:46:03 <fivekbtc> got some more clarity on the situation for now!!
22:46:57 <karmacoma24> for sure. very exciting stuff. much more clarity than ever before...
22:46:58 <@GreXX> Plus, keep in mind that I will continue to try to be here to talk
22:47:30 <@GreXX> I will do a real update once all of the new specifics and everything are compiled
22:49:28 <karmacoma24> that will be great...