Steelskittles: MM2 !
Steelskittles: is there a reason you haven't stamped Skarm yet
+Melee Mewtwo: oh yeah
+Melee Mewtwo: wante dot talk with you
+Melee Mewtwo: refresh my memory real quick, why was sr slashed with whirl and not spikes?
+Melee Mewtwo: was it to had defog + sr on the same set?
+Melee Mewtwo: also I feel like
Steelskittles: Uh
Steelskittles: Defog/SR on the same set wasn't intended iirc
+Melee Mewtwo: also, does the phys def investment cover anything that the spdef spread doesn't?
+Melee Mewtwo: I know we agreed it wasn't a very good spread but
+Melee Mewtwo: idk
+Melee Mewtwo: i still feel like its good enoguh for a set details mention
+Melee Mewtwo: unless you miss something by opting for it
Steelskittles: I'd have to run a bunch of calcs
+Melee Mewtwo: it just seems like the phys def investment is cushion for stuff like ekiller
+Melee Mewtwo: like the special is cushion for support arc switch ins
Steelskittles: I mean most QC is opposed to having Sdef as main-set material
Steelskittles: I"m sure I can find something significant though
+Melee Mewtwo: oh yeah I agree to that
+Melee Mewtwo: but theres also um
+Melee Mewtwo: set details mention
Steelskittles: Yeah
+Melee Mewtwo: but yeah
+Melee Mewtwo: besides the iffy spread
+Melee Mewtwo: baack to the slashing
+Melee Mewtwo: why was sr slashed with wind if it wasn't to have defog + sr?
+Melee Mewtwo: cause spikes + sr is very bad
Steelskittles: Wait oh
Steelskittles: Yeah that is an issue
Steelskittles: I could slash defog and whirlwind
Steelskittles: And move spikes to the last slot as it really is niche
+Melee Mewtwo: where did you get the slashing form in the first place?
Steelskittles: Firebarn
+Melee Mewtwo: I mean if defog + sr isn't supposed to be a thing
+Melee Mewtwo: then sr should be slashed after defog and spikes
+Melee Mewtwo: did fireburn explain the slashing or?
+Melee Mewtwo: oh i see what happened
+Melee Mewtwo: his set
+Melee Mewtwo: didn't have spikes before
+Melee Mewtwo: so sr was just tacked on
+Melee Mewtwo: cause defog was supposed to be the main move
+Melee Mewtwo: hmmmm
+Melee Mewtwo: 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 129-153 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+Melee Mewtwo: that's really good lol
Steelskittles: Yeah I mentioned 12 Atk
Steelskittles: That's freaking insane though lol
+Melee Mewtwo: i'm also wondering about shed shell
+Melee Mewtwo: imor
+Melee Mewtwo: I think you need to do those calcs to see what that spread gives you
+Melee Mewtwo: if its just cushion
+Melee Mewtwo: 1. spdef becomes set details mention worhty rather tahn OO
+Melee Mewtwo: 2. shed shell becomes very appealing to escape gar since lefties isn't as importatn
Steelskittles: Eh I mean
Steelskittles: Brave Bird 2HKOs Mgengar anyway
Steelskittles: And is so much less situational
Steelskittles: You really should be running rocky helm skarm in 90% of scenarios, anyway
+Melee Mewtwo: nah brave bird
+Melee Mewtwo: only 2HKos
+Melee Mewtwo: have to call teh switch in both times
+Melee Mewtwo: plus it eats a slot
+Melee Mewtwo: rock helm is nice but
+Melee Mewtwo: its not that important besides mega kanga which you pretty much handle anyways
+Melee Mewtwo: its a lux item
+Melee Mewtwo: skarm looks like he wants his moves
+Melee Mewtwo: a lot more than his items
Steelskittles: It does yeah
Steelskittles: But I wouldn't really describe it as luxury
Steelskittles: it gets chip damage on so much more than Kanga
+Melee Mewtwo: it does but skarm
+Melee Mewtwo: beats them anyways
+Melee Mewtwo: it doesn't need thte item to stop those threats
+Melee Mewtwo: that's why its lux
+Melee Mewtwo: or am I wrong?
+Melee Mewtwo: last gen the bulk was only really worth it for
+Melee Mewtwo: exca
+Melee Mewtwo: which isn't a thing anymore
+Melee Mewtwo: so what does that spread actually help skarm check?
Steelskittles: Again I need to run calcs
+Melee Mewtwo: could you do that?
Steelskittles: I am atm
+Melee Mewtwo: okay thanks
Steelskittles: I mean it makes the difference between +4 Ekiller 2HKOing and 3HKOing
+Melee Mewtwo: between which spreads?
+Melee Mewtwo: max def and impish max spdef?
+Melee Mewtwo: (spdef doesn't use careful btw)
Steelskittles: Max Def and Impish as opposed to Max Sdef, Max HP
+Melee Mewtwo: which arceus?
+Melee Mewtwo: lo or silk or lum?
Steelskittles: 252+ Atk Silk Scarf
Steelskittles: Not sure if that is significant enough
+Melee Mewtwo: hmm yeah and the other ones as well have a chance to 2HKO that's reduced
Steelskittles: Okay.
+Melee Mewtwo: umm
+Melee Mewtwo: okay yeah
+Melee Mewtwo: ummmm
Steelskittles: So... no set details?
+Melee Mewtwo: thinking about it
Steelskittles: I mean another thing to consider is that the Sdef doesn't necessarily prevent any 1-2HKOs either, to my knowledge
+Melee Mewtwo: no its just for
+Melee Mewtwo: support arceus switch ins
Steelskittles: Yeah
+Melee Mewtwo: you can trade status then be much more annoying with roost stall
+Melee Mewtwo: phys def takes like 60% so
+Melee Mewtwo: it doesn't want to stay in at all
+Melee Mewtwo: butt
+Melee Mewtwo: that only works with
+Melee Mewtwo: toxic plus spikes
Steelskittles: How much does Supportceus Judgment do to Sdef Skarmory? I forget
+Melee Mewtwo: you can also just hit the arc with toxic as it comes in
+Melee Mewtwo: 50%
+Melee Mewtwo: give or take some percent
Steelskittles: Oof
+Melee Mewtwo: 44 to 52%
+Melee Mewtwo: 0 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Skarmory: 150-177 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
Steelskittles: Yeah I mean
Steelskittles: This is assuming that SR is off the field
+Melee Mewtwo: 0 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 204-240 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+Melee Mewtwo: i don't mean you switch in
Steelskittles: And also assuming that Skarm hasn't suffered any previous dam-- oh
+Melee Mewtwo: I mean
+Melee Mewtwo: it switches in on you
+Melee Mewtwo: as you spike
+Melee Mewtwo: you can then toxic it
+Melee Mewtwo: it can't force you out
+Melee Mewtwo: as easily
+Melee Mewtwo: that's what I like about it
Steelskittles: Yeah okay, I get that
+Melee Mewtwo: I think its good enough to deserve a set details mention
+Melee Mewtwo: but with a warning
+Melee Mewtwo: of getting 2HKo'd by ekiller
+Melee Mewtwo: and I think
+Melee Mewtwo: shed shell
+Melee Mewtwo: should probably get first item slash
Steelskittles: eh I guess
Steelskittles: Shed Shell anything is just so situational though
Steelskittles: It eases prediction versus Mgengar, but that is literally all it does whereas Rocky Helmet provides plenty of valuable chip damage and Leftovers boosts longevity, esp. for Sdef
Steelskittles: I would put it on OO
Steelskittles: *in
+Melee Mewtwo: yeah but mega gengar is huge?
+Melee Mewtwo: oops no "?"
Steelskittles: I guess kinda
+Melee Mewtwo: I mean
+Melee Mewtwo: its like chansey
+Melee Mewtwo: would be cool mon but utter mega gengar bait
Steelskittles: I mean, it isn't instant death if it switches in on you
Steelskittles: You can still force it into plenty of 50/50s that are MGengar's trademark
+Melee Mewtwo: shed shell lets you get past a massive drawback to skarm
+Melee Mewtwo: shed shell just lets it double fuck things it already handles
+Melee Mewtwo: nad the 50/50s are only if
+Melee Mewtwo: you give up a moveslot
+Melee Mewtwo: for brave bird
Steelskittles: or Whirlwind
Steelskittles: oh wait BB and WW
+Melee Mewtwo: bb and ww?
+Melee Mewtwo: means no defog or spikes
+Melee Mewtwo: you are just using some wall
+Melee Mewtwo: no support that's pretty lame
Steelskittles: I miss-spoke
+Melee Mewtwo: oh
Steelskittles: I mean, Mgengar can't switch in on Brave Bird or Whirlwind
+Melee Mewtwo: it can switch in on whirlwind
+Melee Mewtwo: unless too much hazards
+Melee Mewtwo: you can pretty much spam
+Melee Mewtwo: and your skarm can't do anythign
+Melee Mewtwo: but wind
+Melee Mewtwo: once mega gengar is there
+Melee Mewtwo: if mega gengar does get in
+Melee Mewtwo: it tautns and that's that
Steelskittles: Again it does require you to predict, but it is a situational item that has one purpose versus a situational move that has several targets
+Melee Mewtwo: amoongus isn't a large target
+Melee Mewtwo: and mmx isn't bothered by brave bird much
+Melee Mewtwo: with bulk up and drain punch recovery
+Melee Mewtwo: and you also
+Melee Mewtwo: hae to take into mind that hte situational move
+Melee Mewtwo: comes at the price of a crucial one
Steelskittles: I need to run more calcs
+Melee Mewtwo: whereas the situational item
+Melee Mewtwo: comes from at the price of a luxury one
Steelskittles: 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 216-254 (61.1 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Steelskittles: This uh
Steelskittles: Minds it a lot
+Melee Mewtwo: mmx is going to be boosted as skarm comes in
+Melee Mewtwo: brb getting a drink
Steelskittles: mm
Steelskittles: I thought BB would be strong enough to break Gliscor's substitutes but it only does like 24% max... lol
Steelskittles: 252 HP / 184 + Def is standard Glissy right
Steelskittles: Anyway it still is nice to prevent you from being Taunt/struggle bait in a lastmon scenario
Steelskittles: 12 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Steelskittles: Good for switchins
Steelskittles: Another thing to consider is that Brave Bird can be used to get chip damage on MKanga/Ekiller and kill them faster, which makes it less difficult to not run Whirlwind
Steelskittles: If any of this is relevant enough let me know
+Melee Mewtwo: um blaze is
+Melee Mewtwo: how much is hte chip damage on ekiller?
+Melee Mewtwo: don't think its that much to justify it
Steelskittles: on Kanga it is 25-31%
Steelskittles: Ekiller uh
Steelskittles: 12 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 93-111 (20.9 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
Steelskittles: 12 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 93-111 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
Steelskittles: more realistic
+Melee Mewtwo: umm 1/6 = ummmmm
+Melee Mewtwo: 18% right?
Steelskittles: Yeah
Steelskittles: +1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 139-165 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Steelskittles: 12 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 146-174 (41.3 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Steelskittles: (146, 146, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 158, 162, 164, 164, 168, 168, 170, 174)
+Melee Mewtwo: if he bulks up again?
Steelskittles: So with Rocky Helm you will win
Steelskittles: Uh
+Melee Mewtwo: how much does bb do?
+Melee Mewtwo: like instead of attackign afert you are in
+Melee Mewtwo: he goes for a seocnd boost
Steelskittles: +2 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Steelskittles: 12 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 110-132 (31.1 - 37.3%) -- 74.1% chance to 3HKO
Steelskittles: Okay that is pretty lame
+Melee Mewtwo: yeah mmx willl win
+Melee Mewtwo: get some annoying chip damage but he'll come out of that
Steelskittles: Also, do you know why the default MMX set is 0- Atk Special
+Melee Mewtwo: cause honko calc is dum
+Melee Mewtwo: it'll fix once we have analysess up
Steelskittles: mmkay
Steelskittles: I mean after the chip damage MMX is going to die to whatever scarfmon or Prio you have
Steelskittles: Again Rocky Helmet helps significantly versus this thing
Steelskittles: Thoughts?
+Melee Mewtwo: sorry was watching hbox
+Melee Mewtwo: idk if it helps significantly
+Melee Mewtwo: but it helps
+Melee Mewtwo: I still think mega gengar is too big
+Melee Mewtwo: so either shed shell needs to be first slash
+Melee Mewtwo: or brave bird does
Steelskittles: Ugh I'm just not sure either really deserve first slash
+Melee Mewtwo: also about sr
+Melee Mewtwo: mega gengar is a huge threat
Steelskittles: I would lean toward BB
Steelskittles: And still stick Shed Shell in OO or maybe Set Details
Steelskittles: What about SR?
+Melee Mewtwo: nah shed shell is worth a slash imo
+Melee Mewtwo: but yeah about sr
+Melee Mewtwo: um
+Melee Mewtwo: idk feels like a waste or skarmer unless you go defog plus sr cause then
+Melee Mewtwo: you can clear hazards
+Melee Mewtwo: and replace but
+Melee Mewtwo: i bet
+Melee Mewtwo: your opponent ill have skarm forced out after it's defogged
+Melee Mewtwo: so would be better ot have sr on antoher mon
Steelskittles: Okay
Steelskittles: So I am thinking
Steelskittles: Roost slot 1
Steelskittles: Toxic/Taunt slot 2
Steelskittles: Defog/SR slot 3
+Melee Mewtwo: um toxic should have
Steelskittles: Brave Bird/Whirlwind/Spikes slot 4
+Melee Mewtwo: same slash as hazards
+Melee Mewtwo: taunt should be used with taunt
Steelskittles: Wait why
+Melee Mewtwo: and I don't liek that cause it says
+Melee Mewtwo: sr plus spikes on same set
+Melee Mewtwo: I think sr is set details
Steelskittles: ugh right
+Melee Mewtwo: but what I mean is
+Melee Mewtwo: I think if you go for defog
+Melee Mewtwo: taunt is probably going to be more useful in general than toxic
+Melee Mewtwo: whereas if you use spikes/sr
+Melee Mewtwo: you always want toxic
+Melee Mewtwo: basically I'm thinking
+Melee Mewtwo: roost
+Melee Mewtwo: Toxic / Taunt
+Melee Mewtwo: Defog / Spikes / Sr?
+Melee Mewtwo: brave bird / whirl
+Melee Mewtwo: or whirl / brave bird if shed shell
Steelskittles: Okay
+Melee Mewtwo: err oops
+Melee Mewtwo: taunt / toxic
+Melee Mewtwo: if defog is first
+Melee Mewtwo: toxic / taunt
+Melee Mewtwo: if spikes / sr(?) / defog
Steelskittles: Wait what
+Melee Mewtwo: basicallyl
+Melee Mewtwo: taunt / toxic
+Melee Mewtwo: if defog / hazards
+Melee Mewtwo: but toxic / tuant
+Melee Mewtwo: if hazards / defog
Steelskittles: Okay.
Steelskittles: Erm
+Melee Mewtwo: sorry did that makes ense or?
Steelskittles: Yeah I think I got it
Steelskittles: I literally got no sleep last night so sorry if I'm kind of slow today, lol
Steelskittles: Oh also
+Melee Mewtwo: no that's fine
Steelskittles: Could you give this alt Driver and take Steelskitty's away?
+Melee Mewtwo: jsut making sure i made sense
Steelskittles: Yeah okay
+Melee Mewtwo: you can have tem on both
Steelskittles: thanks
Steelskittles: Okay, I have to leave but will update this the moment I can get on tomorrow