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Hillary's Nonsensical Gun Control Spiel During Final Debate

No, that's what you pretend it means. But here's the thing... we don't believe you.

Because we see gun "control" efforts as part of a unified set of political forces. And those forces do things like ban standard-capacity magazines.

See, a ban on standard capacity magazines has nothing to do with felons. It's a law that literally can't effect felons. Because a low-capacity magazine is nothing but a standard magazine with a blocking rivet driven into it to limit its capacity. Anyone can remove that rivet, armed with nothing but five minutes, an electric drill, and a willingness to break the law.

It's a law that only effects, can only effect, people who care about laws. Who want to behave themselves. It inconveniences and disadvantages them a great deal, while effecting felons not one tiny bit.

This is just one example of what gets sold as "common sense" gun laws. I could give you a list of five more, equally ridiculous, off the top of my head.

So the problem is that anti-gun forces have burned all trust we have otherwise had for them. That's why we're no longer willing to negotiate. Because you are not negotiating in good faith.

If you want to get us back to the bargaining table, here's what it will take:

    Repeal all magazine capacity limits.
    Repeal all bans on semi-automatic rifles
    Repeal all make and model based handgun restriction lists.
    Repeal all bans and restrictions on sound suppressors.
    Establish a nationwide "shall issue" policy for carry permits.
    Restore second amendment rights to individuals with non-violent criminal records.

(I can explain in detail why each of these is important, and justified.)

Then we can talk about tightening background check procedures, and we'll work with you. But until and unless you are ready to repeal some of the crap that has already been sold as "common sense", we're not buying.
Taco Trucks Are Actually Registering Citizens to Vote in Texas and Arizona

Whatever it takes to prevent you from getting it. Goalposts will be moved if necessary.

Look how many mods there are. Look how many have been mods for less than a year.

Do you think that a hypothetical entity, with millions of dollars to spend, would be incapable of getting mod rights?

What constitutes "proof" when the jury and the defendant are indistinguishable?
Saw this on FB thought it was fabulous

He got a fucking packed RNC floor to cheer wildly for statements about protecting the rights of LGTBQ Americans.

That makes him pretty much the most pro-gay candidate the republicans have ever had.
SERIOUS: What makes Mr. Donald Trump the optimal candidate for the upcoming presidency?

One thing that might matter to you in particular is that he got a packed Republican National Convention to cheer wildly for a statement about protecting the rights of LGBTQ Americans.

This shows that he has both the desire and the ability to make gay rights a bipartisan issue.
What are the stances you disagree with Trump on? (Trump supporters only lol)

I do think that stop-and-frisk is unconstitutional, even if the courts happen to disagree with me.

I think that putting people on a list and denying them their civil rights without due process is stupid.

I don't give a crap about abortion.
BREAKING: TWO POLICE OFFICERS GUNNED DOWN IN FORT WORTH, TX

That is precisely not the problem. We need to disrespect "authority". That's what America is all about. No kings, masters, or gods.

But police aren't "authorities". They are civilians with the full time job of helping and protecting their own communities. These animals taking out their personal frustrations on the police don't realize that, because they were not properly taught how to respect the rights of other human beings.
Dumbest SJW - Trump hat is Hate Speech! Take it off NOW!

Or you could come down here. It's warmer and we have a bill of rights.
LGBT lives are on the line this election.

He got an entire RNC open floor to cheer wildly for a declaration about protecting the rights of LGBTQ Americans from violence.

I seriously wonder what OP is smoking. Trump is the most gay-friendly republican ever. And the modern DNC seems to be devoted to yelling "Islamophobe" whenever gays say that they would like to not be murdered, please.

Yeah, there are some Jesus freaks who don't want gays to get married, but that fight is over. The biggest threat to gays from the right is that they don't want to punish someone for refusing to bake a cake.

I think it's a higher priority to protect gays from another Omar Mateen, or being thrown off a building, than it is to punish people for having backwards ideas in their private lives.
Man write a well-reasoned opinion piece about not dating feminists. Predictably, every single comment is "you're so fat and ugly nobody would date you anyway". So only handsome men get an opinion?

Men's rights guys don't demand that women be attracted to them.

It's people job to be attractive, not everyone else's to be attracted.
Wash. Attorney General proposes ban on assault weapons, high-capacity magazines

Those are the ones who are fleeing the symptoms. Others are fleeing the cancer itself, and they know.

California is cursed with the twin afflictions of Los Angeles and San Francisco, and together, they can wag the dog. It's easy to say that people who support a free society outnumber those who don't, so all we need to do is get off our asses, but in California that isn't true. The sheep are perpetually scared, and they swarm the voting booths, demanding to have their rights trampled.

Californians cannot defend themselves with the soap box or the ballot box. And the ninth circuit court is looking dicier every year.
Preacher tries to deliver homophobic speeches at university, comparing homosexuality to bestiality, but gets drowned out by lesbian student playing bagpipes

    Like most people, you became more bitter and conservative as you got older. I'm so impressed.

Snark isn't an argument either, son.

    I'm quite capable of making judgements all on my own; I don't need someone to tell me what's bigoted

Then extend the same courtesy to others.

You don't seem to understand the why of the principle of free expression.

There's no one thing that made western civilization great, but if I had to pick one, it would be the principle that people need to be allowed to say whatever they want. Almost every significant advance in culture, moral reasoning, art, and even science, once began as an unacceptable or shocking idea.

The very reason you and I are able to have this conversation in a subreddit called /r/atheism is that, for example, Thomas Jefferson was once free to say "it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg". If he had not, and others like him had not, then atheism would not have ever entered the mainstream, and in societies without the principle of free expression, you and I, with our non-mainstream atheist opinions, would be dead or in jail.

You are chopping at the base of the wall which protects you, just because it also happens to protect someone neither of us likes very much.

    P.S. I like your sneer quotes around "hate speech," as if yelling that gays are immoral and deserve no rights somehow doesn't count as hate speech to you.

You misunderstand. "Hate speech" isn't a thing to me. Speech that is deemed "hateful" is not some special exception to the First Amendment, or the right of free expression which it reiterates. To me, the words "hate speech", as a special category of speech that is somehow exempted from the protections of a free society, is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen.

To paraphrase Jefferson, what injury does it do you for some idiot to call you faggot? It neither picks your pocket, nor breaks your leg. Dismantling, or eroding, the fundamental foundations of the our society's greatness to protect some snowflake's feelings is simply ludicrous, and I can only conclude that people who want to do so don't really understand free expression, or why it is important.
Preacher tries to deliver homophobic speeches at university, comparing homosexuality to bestiality, but gets drowned out by lesbian student playing bagpipes

Impugning the source ain't an argument, son.

Of course I have controversial opinions. So do you, unless you're one of those people who allows others to select his opinions for him. Once upon a time, my controversial opinions were atheism, and pro-gay-rights. Now it's antifeminism and pro-second-ammendment.

What you seem to be too young to understand is that shit changes. What is deemed unspeakable changes from one generation to the next, and sometimes from one decade to the next. Opinions go from "hate speech" to "self evident truth" in public view, or vice versa, and sometimes back again.

And sing me no songs of "only intolerance is intolerable", because anything can be construed as intolerant of something else. Taking a stand for gay rights used to be called religious intolerance.

There are really only two opinions someone can have on freedom of expression.

    You are allowed to say what you like, however horrific, and only when and where horrific words translate into horrific actions is it just to intervene and stop you.

    The majority is currently right about everything and will never change its mind, so saying anything it finds shocking is always unnecessary and wrong.

If you don't have the first view, then whatever view you do have, however nuanced you may think it is, really boils down to the second.
Preacher tries to deliver homophobic speeches at university, comparing homosexuality to bestiality, but gets drowned out by lesbian student playing bagpipes

They're too young to have any historical perspective. They don't remember a time when things like atheism and gay rights were the "offensive" opinions. When they were the "hate speech".

And when people like me spoke out for atheism and gay rights, lots of people called us ugly names, but they never blew bagpipes, or air horns, or tried to get us thrown out of places. Because hardcore free speech was part of their values, too... the people who hated every word we said.

Sometimes I think I have more in common with the jesus freaks who hated me back then, than I do with these young millenial left-wing fascists, who are okay with suppressing people's freedom to express themselves, so long as they are the ones deciding what should be suppressed.

They just fundamentally don't know how to do a free society. Here they are saying ridiculous things like "The right to speak does not imply the right to be heard." It never ceases to amaze me what silly things people will come up with to rational their bad behaviour.
Who's the real hero?

You're probably okay anyway.

I'm talking about a larger phenomenon. Remember how Al Franken, the actor and comedian turned senator, said that conservatives love America like a five year old loves mommy... thinking she can do no wrong, and hating everyone who criticizes her?

There may be some like that, but there's a corresponding phenomenon that hasn't been talked about.

Liberals love America like an angry rebellious fifteen year old loves mom... angry that she isn't perfect, but not yet adult enough to realize that perfection isn't possible, constantly shouting and berating her for falling short of expectations and standards he invented in his own head.

This is a problem because a country is a fellowship of interests. In order for it to be strong, secure, prosperous, and just generally successful, people have to work together. But to work together, people have to trust each other.

And ya'll are making that very difficult for us. Because liberals, as a group, articulate their criticism of America constantly, and with great enthusiasm, and their allegiance seldom, and with lukewarm enthusiasm. It really makes us wonder about your commitment to the welfare of this group we're in together. It's like being in a relationship with a girl who constantly criticizes you, just kinda lies there in bed, and never, ever, tells you she loves you. Eventually, you're going to cheat on her, followed by a quick break-up.

Now, I get that pasting American flags all over everything isn't everyone's favorite way of expressing themselves. Hell, it isn't mine. I prefer to express, and feel, my patriotism as a desire to work with other Americans for all of our mutual benefit. My commitment is more to the Bill of Rights than the flag.

But whether you like principles or flags, the problem conservatives have with liberals isn't our policy disagreements. It's that we've lost trust in your commitment the nation and its people. We feel like your policy stances are more important to you than your nationality, and that you would throw under the bus any number of your own countrymen in the name of abstract principles like "multiculturalism" or "free trade".

In other words, you've laid it on way too thick. You have ideas, and concerns. We get that already. But before we can work together, we need to know that you even want to work together. Because we're not going to just vanish into thin air if you keep calling us stupid, and evil, and selfish.
Educate me on the 2nd Amendment

    It is against the supreme law of the land (the constitution). The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    It transforms the relationship between adult citizen and elected, representative state into a relationship between population of untrusted teenagers and state bureaucracy of custodial adults.

    It disarms the most law-abiding and trustworthy, while least affecting the most lawless and untrustworthy.

    It removes the ability of the most vulnerable portions of the population to defend themselves against the most predatory. Remember that neither the police nor the state have any legal obligation whatsoever to defend you.

    It punishes the prosocial 99.999...% for the actions of violent sociopaths. The latter are unaffected by it.

    A disarmed population can be deprived of any other rights at all, at any time the state becomes controlled by those who do not represent that population. Some would say this has already happened. Others would say it hasn't. But any sensible person knows that it can happen.

    Few people think the rule of law will break down where they are, in their lifetime. Almost no one expects a civil war, invasion, famine, natural disaster, or riot. But they happen, and that means they happen to people to thought "It can't happen here". Ask the Koreans of Los Angeles if calling the police is a substitute for a rifle.

    My guns have never killed anyone, and never will unless that person forces me to with their own actions. My guns make society safer. I am not a statistic. I am not a national average. I am not bunch of numbers that you can can game. When you want me, personally, to give up my personal weapons, but cannot give me a good reason why my personal guns are a problem, and just keep showing me tweaked statistics, that doesn't pass the laugh test.

    Gun control laws make no sense, because they are written by people who know nothing about firearms. One of the sponsors of an anti-gun, bill banning, among other things, rifles with barrel shrouds, was once famously asked what a "barrel shroud" was. "Is it the shoulder thing that goes up?", she asked.

    Gun control laws tend to ban the weapons most useful for defense, while ignoring those most useful for offense.

What's your opinion on separation of Church and State? Also, what's your opinion on female priests?

Is English not your first language? I am unable to discern the precise meaning of that sentence.

Is religious establishments having influence in government a threat? Yes. Is it more of a threat from the right? Yes.

But it's a small threat compared to the huge threat from the left... not only to the second amendment, but also to the first.

Freedom of religion is only ONE right guaranteed by the first amendment. The others are the right to speak, the right to publish, the right to assemble, and the right to petition.

The left is busily trying to remove the first two.

There are other amendments as well that the left is trying to dismantle.

    The right to due process is guaranteed by the fifth amendment.
    The sixth amendment guarantees the right to a public trial, the right to confront witnesses, and the right to counsel.
    The seventh amendment guarantees the right to trial by jury.
    The eighth amendment forbids cruel and unusual punishments.
    The ninth amendment forbids courts from construing the constitutional enumeration of a right as evidence of the absence of other natural rights.
    The tenth amendment guarantees that states and communities have the power to regulate themselves according to their own community standards.
    The thirteenth amendment forbids slavery or involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crimes (and subject to due process).
    The fourteenth amendment guarantees equal protection of the law to all.

That's quite a list.