Nixon Haldeman Talk Watergate, Teddy Kennedy January 3 1973

Introduction and majority of transcript from Stanley Kutler's Abuse of Power; some transcript material is taken from John Dean's The Nixon Defense; and the transcript material on Teddy Kennedy is taken from Chris Matthews' Kennedy & Nixon.

Audio is taken from the following file, starting at 12:57 and ending at 24:07:
http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/forresearchers/find/tapes/tape831/831-006b.mp3

Clip with audio accompanied by transcript is on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvFzZanU4Lo

JANUARY 3, 1973: THE PRESIDENT AND HALDEMAN, 11:30 A.M.-1:00 P.M., OVAL OFFICE
The President's chief aide is similarly anxious to cast blame and undermine others. He tells Nixon that Colson knew about Watergate, a question that had constantly preyed on Nixon's mind for the previous six months. Jeb Magruder is a subject of concern. "Liddy we're taking care of in one way," Haldeman says. "We've got to be very careful to take care of Magruder the right way, in the other way." More impor-tantly, Haldeman underlines the dangers of campaign treasurer Hugh W. Sloan, Jr. revealing money disbursements from the Republican campaign, money that eventually bought silence from Hunt. Nixon wanted to know: "What are we doing to take care of him?" Again, high praise for John Dean: "He's in it, in a sense, himself, because of what he's trying to do," Haldeman notes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I wonder if we shouldn't extend Colson by a couple of months. Is he interested? Has he announced he's leaving?

HALDEMAN: Oh yeah.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, nobody said.

HALDEMAN: He's announced- he's setting himself into motion pretty well, and I think it's better to let-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Well, he'll help from the outside-

HALDEMAN: I tell you- I found out some things that John [Ehrlichman] thinks were, even though he's [Colson] going to be missed, there was more to his involvement in some of this stuff than I realized.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Really?

HALDEMAN: Yes.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Which part?

HALDEMAN: Watergate.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Colson? Does he know?

HALDEMAN: I think he knows.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Does he know you know?

HALDEMAN: I don't think he knows I know.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What do you mean, through Hunt or what?

HALDEMAN: Yeah, through Hunt and Liddy. And if Liddy decides to pull the cord, Colson could be in some real soup. Liddy can do it under oath and then Colson is in a position of having perjured himself. See, Colson and Mitchell have both perjured themselves under oath already...

PRESIDENT NIXON: You mean Colson was aware of the Watergate bugging? That's hard for me to believe.

HALDEMAN: Not only was aware of it, but was pushing very hard for results, and very specifically that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Who was he pushing?

HALDEMAN: Magruder and Liddy. And that's why we've got to be awful careful to take—Liddy we're taking care of in one way. We've got to be very careful to take care of Magruder the right way, in the other way.

PRESIDENT NIXON: How can you do that?

HALDEMAN: I don't know. But I'm going to make sure he has the feeling that he's—John Dean's been doing a superb job of just patting on him, covering all facets.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What about Magruder? What does he need, a job of some sort, or what?

HALDEMAN: Well, either a job or ample recognition so he can go out into something outside. And he doesn't know what he wants to do. He doesn't know what he should do...But the main thing is he's got to feel in his own mind and in his own heart, really, that he's—

PRESIDENT NIXON: That we're going to back him up.

HALDEMAN: That we're on his side. And I've told him that. I've told him solidly—

PRESIDENT NIXON: He's working on the Inauguration, isn't he?

HALDEMAN: Oh, yes. He's the director of the inaugural and is doing all the running of that thing. So that gives him an ongoing base through the [January] 20th.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Does Mitchell know that Colson was involved, and does Colson know that Mitchell was involved?

HALDEMAN: I think the answer is yes to both of those, although I'm sure Colson assumes that Mitchell is involved if he doesn't know it directly as a fact. And I'm not positive if Mitchell knows that Colson was involved. See, Mitchell's involvement was early and then he backed out. Again, it's a question—

PRESIDENT NIXON: I can see Mitchell, but I can't see Colson getting into the Democratic office.

HALDEMAN: The stupidity.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What the Christ was he looking for?

HALDEMAN: They were looking for stuff on two things. One, on financial.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Yeah.

HALDEMAN: And the other on stuff that they thought they had on what they wore going to do at Miami to screw us up, because apparently—a Democratic plot. And they thought they had it uncovered. Colson was salivating with glee at the thought what he might be able to do with it. And they were very reluctant, the investigator types were reluctant, to go in there. They were put under tremendous pressure that they had to get that stuff. None of this—I don't know any of this firsthand. I can't prove any of it, and I don't want to know it. As I pointed out, if I ever get called in I be ignorant, which I am. But Hunt also knows. See, if Hunt decided to talk he could really screw Colson. But apparently there's no real danger of that. There doesn't appear to be any great danger of Liddy flipping, and I think we're okay on Magruder. The other one that's a problem is Sloan, and he doesn't know enough, apparently, to matter, although he suspects a lot, and if they start him wandering along his suspicions he could make a lot of news, if not any illegal.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What are we doing to take care of him?

HALDEMAN: Well, they're trying to keep him taken care of.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Has he got a job?

HALDEMAN: Yeah.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What is Magruder going to do?

HALDEMAN: Give John Dean a lot of credit for being a damn effective operator in this one, without bothering anybody with the details, just sort of living with it hour by hour. He's got an interest in that. He's in it, in a sense, himself because of what he's trying to do.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What about Magruder? What can we do there?

HALDEMAN: Who?

PRESIDENT NIXON: Magruder.

HALDEMAN: Well, he's intrigued with the Bicentennial Commission and that is something we could give him without any problem. He'd be perfectly adequate to handle, not as the president, but as—

PRESIDENT NIXON: Executive director or something.

HALDEMAN: The problem with it is it's a politically visible spot and I'm not sure its something you want to—

PRESIDENT NIXON: No, no.

HALDEMAN: —get him into.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I wouldn't put him in-

HALDEMAN: He doesn't want anything and wouldn't consider anything until after the trial and the thing is all over with. He doesn't even want to be thought that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What's the present plan for the trial?

HALDEMAN: I'm not sure what the dates are.

PRESIDENT NIXON: Do we know whether they're going to plead guilty or what?

HALDEMAN: They're apparently going to plead guilty, but they're still playing with them, their maneuvers, you know, their civil rights and all that sort of stuff.

PRESIDENT NIXON: What's that?

HALDEMAN: They're still playing with their civil rights maneuvers and all that sort of stuff.

PRESIDENT NIXON: All in all, it's better for them to plead guilty, frankly.

HALDEMAN: I would think so.

PRESIDENT NIXON: And then the Congress goes after it, I guess, persecuting...you know, men who have paid the price.

HALDEMAN: There's apparently some question as to what the Congress is going to do...still. Indications are that the Kennedy staff have faded away in their activity.

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's on Segretti.

HALDEMAN: They may have turned it over to either Jackson or Ervin, either one is going to pick it up. It may all just go away, we may be worrying about something that just doesn't...exist. But I think your position has been right...that we need to get pretty clean of the potential problems...

(20:20)

PRESIDENT NIXON: That's right.

HALDEMAN: Just in case. And it's too damn bad- Colson is a substantial loss here- No question. Chapin is a substantial loss.

PRESIDENT NIXON: To everyone, then.

HALDEMAN: In areas that we don't have good people to uh- I mean, they're both guys with peculiar talents that we don't have-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Colson will be, as you say, very effective on the outside.

HALDEMAN: Yes he will.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He'll make his niche. Be very helpful and hardworking. Find a way to be back in and out of the White House...

HALDEMAN: That's right.

PRESIDENT NIXON: He said that there’s only one thing he’s asking for is, at the end, he would like to take a trip, a little trade fair or something.

HALDEMAN: Send me a note on that.

PRESIDENT NIXON: There's no problem. That could be so low-profile, in a way- He hasn't asked for anything before.

HALDEMAN: And he's very interested to take some kind of- He wants to take that (unintelligible) which we didn't have. (unintelligible) Some kind of-

PRESIDENT NIXON: Boy, I feel for these fellows, because Bob, they were part of what they thought was a good cause, you know, they are being punished. I think that's what I was pushing, I thought I was pushing-

HALDEMAN: Mitchell did not push, apparently. Mitchell just- His thing, apparently, was an awareness of machinery, rather than an initiative. Mitchell at the point that was going on, Mitchell was not taking a very active role at all.

PRESIDENT NIXON: But Colson was. Colson was pushing Magruder. That's what it was.

HALDEMAN: Yeah. It gets down to this...undeniable specifics. Specific meetings, times, and places. That sort of thing.

PRESIDENT NIXON: But the point is, whether he was pushing...on the question of perjury and so forth, whether he was pushing to get information, or whether he was pushing to get information through bugging.

HALDEMAN: Well. It's clear he was very specific with his own men. [On this] Particular...

PRESIDENT NIXON: ...venture.

HALDEMAN: Venture. And the other one, of course, on Teddy. And the other one, I guess, on Teddy.

PRESIDENT NIXON: You mean the tail on him and that sort of thing?

HALDEMAN: Apparently they tried … I don’t know the details. They tried or did bug him, too. The tail was something else.

PRESIDENT NIXON: I see.

HALDEMAN: Incidentally, you know, in order to keep completely clean on that, I have never had a report-

(redacted)

HALDEMAN: ...on his Kennedy assisgnment.

(redacted)

HALDEMAN: ...some day, somebody may come and talk to him about that.