gundam

4 27 23:18:41 <jpBrett> yeah
4 27 23:18:45 <jpBrett> i would offer to play but
4 27 23:18:48 <jpBrett> red is sad
4 27 23:21:32 <Lostconfused>    I just want to know why I get such a shitty connection with randoms
4 27 23:21:47 <jpBrett> probably becaues randoms are in japan?
4 27 23:21:48 <jpBrett> o_O
4 27 23:22:06 <Enron>   that's pretty much the reason, lol
4 27 23:22:11 <Lostconfused>    are english JP tags that common?
4 27 23:22:18 <Enron>   uh
4 27 23:22:19 <Enron>   yeah
4 27 23:22:29 <Enron>   all the tags are in english
4 27 23:22:34 <Kyouji>  PSN names don't have JPN characters
4 27 23:22:36 <Lostconfused>    thats crazy
4 27 23:22:39 <jpBrett> .........
4 27 23:22:41 <Enron>   every now and again you'll get in a USA room
4 27 23:22:41 <jpBrett> ............................
4 27 23:22:43 <Kyouji>  you didn't know that?
4 27 23:22:44 <Kyouji>  lol
4 27 23:22:47 <jpBrett> ............................................................
4 27 23:22:47 <Lostconfused>    I am sorry
4 27 23:22:49 <Lostconfused>    I am not insane
4 27 23:22:50 <Kyouji>  brett's having an aneurysm
4 27 23:22:53 <Enron>   he's lost.  and confused
4 27 23:22:54 <Lostconfused>    no
4 27 23:22:59 <Lostconfused>    I am actually fairly normal
4 27 23:23:00 <Kincaido>        lol
4 27 23:23:03 <Kyouji>  lol
4 27 23:23:04 <Lostconfused>    that's why I didn't assume
4 27 23:23:06 <Lostconfused>    something insane
4 27 23:23:08 <jpBrett> so did you think like....there were thousands of random people in america playing this game all the time?
4 27 23:23:18 <Kyouji>  Lost is stealth trolling us all.
4 27 23:23:20 <Lostconfused>    not really
4 27 23:23:20 <Enron>   i think the matchmaking tries to pair up players by region, no
4 27 23:23:36 <Lostconfused>    again
4 27 23:23:36 <Enron>   because a lot of times ill get dumped in a room with AMERICA or NORTH AMERICA in the title
4 27 23:23:49 <Lostconfused>    I think you are all missing the point of how totally insane that is
4 27 23:24:18 <Lostconfused>    maybe you know you live in crazy land and that kind of stuff is taken for granted
4 27 23:24:19 <Enron>   usually you can tell the jp players though, because they wont have english words in their psns
4 27 23:24:32 <jpBrett> usually you tell
4 27 23:24:32 <Lostconfused>    but in a rational reasonable world, which clearly is quiet a small part this shit is insane
4 27 23:24:33 <jpBrett> by the lag.
4 27 23:24:37 <Enron>   well, that too
4 27 23:24:44 <Enron>   sometimes you don't lag though
4 27 23:24:51 <jpBrett> what?
4 27 23:25:02 <jpBrett> what the hell are you talking about lmao
4 27 23:25:21 <Enron>   ive been in plenty of games with randoms where there wasn't any lag
4 27 23:25:26 <jpBrett> yeah
4 27 23:25:27 <jpBrett> because
4 27 23:25:27 <Enron>   despite my connection being red or yellow
4 27 23:25:29 <jpBrett> they were not in japan.
4 27 23:25:47 <tenkai>  are you confusing lag and input delay
4 27 23:25:57 <jpBrett> what is difficult about this concept.
4 27 23:26:34 <MechaX>  Input Delay in this game is pretty normal for about a half a second. Lag is something that JPN players have, given how there are plenty of rooms up where EVERYONE is red, provided that there is a JPN player with a crazy connection
4 27 23:26:47 <Enron>   yeah, im well aware of what lag is
4 27 23:27:01 <Enron>   and i have experienced it many times
4 27 23:27:02 <MechaX>  what's the problem here again?
4 27 23:27:07 <Enron>   im not sure
4 27 23:27:26 <Enron>   not sure why this is turning into an argument
4 27 23:27:28 <jpBrett> LJFKL:SJEFSJEFKJ
4 27 23:27:32 <jpBrett> its not turning into an arguement
4 27 23:27:36 <jpBrett> you're just hurting my head right now
4 27 23:27:47 <Enron>   uhm, ok
4 27 23:27:54 <Enron>   ?
4 27 23:28:00 <Enron>   i mean, i dont know what to say
4 27 23:28:07 <Enron>   do i apologize?
4 27 23:28:10 <Lostconfused>    I think I Broke Brett
4 27 23:28:17 <Enron>   send flowers?
4 27 23:28:18 <Lostconfused>    and then everything went down hill from there
4 27 23:28:19 <Enron>   bake cake?
4 27 23:28:22 <jpBrett> me: you can tell if they are in japan by the lag (to them)
4 27 23:28:26 <jpBrett> you: sometimes you don't lag though
4 27 23:28:49 <Enron>   right. you dont always lag 100% in a room with jp players
4 27 23:28:56 <jpBrett> ..
4 27 23:29:01 <jpBrett> yes you fucking do.
4 27 23:29:21 <Enron>   ive been in plenty of games where the connections were all red, and not experienced any lag.
4 27 23:29:29 <Enron>   then again, ive been in tons of games where the connections were red
4 27 23:29:31 <jpBrett> was the GAME CONNECTION RED?
4 27 23:29:33 <Enron>   and it was a slide show
4 27 23:29:37 <Enron>   yep
4 27 23:29:43 <Enron>   it happens, man.
4 27 23:29:43 <jpBrett> then it was lag.
4 27 23:29:47 <jpBrett> by definitely it is lag
4 27 23:29:53 <MechaX>  No, Enron is actually right about that. There are some JPN players with better connections than most. And even then, red connection is a pretty poor indicator of what is going on under the hud.
4 27 23:30:00 <jpBrett> okay
4 27 23:30:03 <jpBrett> i will make it very
4 27 23:30:04 <jpBrett> very
4 27 23:30:04 <jpBrett> clear
4 27 23:30:08 <Enron>   breet
4 27 23:30:09 <Enron>   er
4 27 23:30:10 <Enron>   sorry
4 27 23:30:11 <MechaX>  Especially when Donkey is always red but has the capacity to host despite being across the continent
4 27 23:30:11 <Enron>   Brett
4 27 23:30:13 <Enron>   seriously
4 27 23:30:16 <jpBrett> if your game does not have a blue connection, your game has lag
4 27 23:30:17 <jpBrett> if your game does not have a blue connection, your game has lag
4 27 23:30:17 <jpBrett> if your game does not have a blue connection, your game has lag
4 27 23:30:18 <jpBrett> if your game does not have a blue connection, your game has lag
4 27 23:30:18 <jpBrett> if your game does not have a blue connection, your game has lag
4 27 23:30:26 <Enron>   why are you so hostile
4 27 23:30:28 <Enron>   :/
4 27 23:30:35 <jpBrett> because i dont understand how you dont understand this concept yet play this game
4 27 23:30:38 <jpBrett> its extremely simple
4 27 23:30:50 <Kincaido>        popcorn.gif
4 27 23:30:53 <jpBrett> mechax: we are NOT talking about slowdown.
4 27 23:31:00 <jpBrett> we are talking about input delay.
4 27 23:31:18 <Lostconfused>    its probably not noticeable enough to people unless it gets really bad
4 27 23:31:38 <MechaX>  Ah. Well, that's a different story entirely.
4 27 23:31:45 <jpBrett> yes.
4 27 23:31:46 <jpBrett> I realize that.
4 27 23:32:07 <Enron>   we never seem to have a problem with overseas players here
4 27 23:32:13 <Enron>   except for poor dunpeal
4 27 23:32:15 <jpBrett> okay Enron, I will correct myself because I think you misinterpreted what I wrote
4 27 23:32:21 <jpBrett> You can tell whether they are jp based on your connection speed to them.
4 27 23:32:41 <jpBrett> connection speed inherently changes the delay setting, or, in this context, "lag", of the game
4 27 23:33:27 <jpBrett> so it is literally impossible for you to either a) have a game that is set at an input delay and then claim there is none, or b) have a game with players of X connection speed and play at a game input delay higher than the lowest common denominator (barring glitches)
4 27 23:33:57 <Enron>   how bad does it have to be to be noticeable
4 27 23:34:05 <jpBrett> well
4 27 23:34:07 <jpBrett> thats subjective
4 27 23:34:13 <jpBrett> but we're not takling about noticeable or not
4 27 23:34:18 <jpBrett> it is there whether you notice it or not
4 27 23:34:26 <jpBrett> i play on blue constantly so
4 27 23:34:34 <jpBrett> yellow has obvious delay to me and i notice it
4 27 23:34:39 <jpBrett> but if you play only on yellow you wont feel it
4 27 23:34:45 <jpBrett> similarly if you play only red you'll never feel it
4 27 23:35:05 <MechaX>  The game inherently has input delay even in the single player, so for people who aren't on blue connection, you won't notice it too much unless you're using a "weighty" unit to boost dash with.
4 27 23:35:19 <tenkai>  ???
4 27 23:35:45 <jpBrett> how did you determine this?
4 27 23:36:08 <MechaX>  Think of it this way; compare it to ANY fighting game and then test the movement of exvs in single player
4 27 23:36:14 <jpBrett> ...
4 27 23:36:17 <tenkai>  ........
4 27 23:36:23 <MechaX>  you push a button, the reaction comes out a half second later
4 27 23:36:25 <jpBrett> we play fighting games
4 27 23:36:28 <jpBrett> competitively
4 27 23:36:28 <jpBrett> do you?
4 27 23:36:33 <Enron>   oh here it goes
4 27 23:36:36 <Enron>   see brett
4 27 23:36:36 <jpBrett> because if you did you should know what the phrase "start up" is.
4 27 23:36:43 <jpBrett> lag =/= startup
4 27 23:36:44 <Enron>   i knew this was why you were getting hostile
4 27 23:36:51 <Enron>   you and a couple of others
4 27 23:36:59 <Enron>   think we are all idiots
4 27 23:37:06 <Enron>   since we aren't "pros"
4 27 23:37:10 <jpBrett> stop being defensive, please
4 27 23:37:19 <Enron>   i was just waiting for you to come out with it
4 27 23:37:21 <Shouta>  I would recommend you stop being hostile then
4 27 23:37:22 <MechaX>  I realize that, but what I am saying is that the start-up as I found it is slightly more noticeable in exvs
4 27 23:37:25 <Enron>   defensive?
4 27 23:37:39 <Enron>   we aren't the ones being condescending in here :/
4 27 23:37:43 <jpBrett> mechax: once again, startup and input delay are completely different
4 27 23:37:51 <jpBrett> input delay implies there is delay compared to something else
4 27 23:38:00 <jpBrett> what else would you be comparing to, unless you have access to a dev build or something
4 27 23:38:08 <jpBrett> you can say the game has a lot of startup
4 27 23:38:11 <jpBrett> that is perfectly fine
4 27 23:38:48 <jpBrett> Enron: i don't really have anythign against you, neither do I think poorly of you if you are a new player or not
4 27 23:38:50 <MechaX>  That is my main point; comparing longer start-up in combination with input delay on yellow/red connections
4 27 23:38:56 <jpBrett> i spend half my time explaining the game to newer people and playing with new people
4 27 23:39:11 <Enron>   do you always say things like this to them?
4 27 23:39:12 <Enron>   [02:36] <jpBrett> we play fighting games
4 27 23:39:12 <Enron>   [02:36] <jpBrett> competitively
4 27 23:39:12 <Enron>   [02:36] <jpBrett> do you?
4 27 23:39:26 <Enron>   anyways i dont want to fight
4 27 23:39:29 <jpBrett> enron
4 27 23:39:33 <jpBrett> i was just talking to mechax
4 27 23:39:35 <jpBrett> i admit i got mad
4 27 23:39:37 <Enron>   i know i suck at this game
4 27 23:39:38 <Enron>   lol
4 27 23:39:40 <jpBrett> because he was saying something implying he knew something
4 27 23:39:46 <jpBrett> and using terminology that didnt make sense
4 27 23:39:55 <jpBrett> so yes, I apologize for losing my temper for a split second
4 27 23:40:02 <jpBrett> but it wasn't directed at you anyways
4 27 23:40:08 <jpBrett> though i dont mind if you are trying to come to mechax's defense
4 27 23:40:23 <MechaX>  You spammed your reply about six times when talking to enron further up, dude.
4 27 23:40:34 <MechaX>  How is that NOT condescending?
4 27 23:40:36 <Enron>   im not. ive just noticed from some of the chatters in here over the last few months
4 27 23:40:44 <Enron>   there tends to be an
4 27 23:40:46 <Enron>   attitude
4 27 23:40:56 <jpBrett> enron
4 27 23:40:56 <Enron>   i guess would be the best way to describe it
4 27 23:40:58 <jpBrett> i don't even think i've
4 27 23:40:59 <jpBrett> ever spoken to you
4 27 23:41:00 <jpBrett> before
4 27 23:41:00 <Enron>   from some of the better players
4 27 23:41:01 <jpBrett> in this irc
4 27 23:41:02 <jpBrett> lmao.
4 27 23:41:10 <Enron>   to us play for fun guys
4 27 23:41:20 <tenkai>  i don't get it
4 27 23:41:23 <tenkai>  what does this have to do with
4 27 23:41:24 <tenkai>  discussing
4 27 23:41:29 <tenkai>  whether the game has input lag or not
4 27 23:41:30 <tenkai>  let's do that
4 27 23:42:10 <jpBrett> mechax
4 27 23:42:12 <jpBrett> just to clarify
4 27 23:42:26 <Enron>   it doesn't have anything to do with it.  however, i have noticed it and so has mechaX apparently.
4 27 23:42:26 <jpBrett> input delay means
4 27 23:42:32 <Enron>   anyways im done talking about it
4 27 23:42:36 <jpBrett> you're comparing two different states of the game
4 27 23:42:40 <jpBrett> and saying one is more delayed than the other
4 27 23:42:40 <Enron>   not trying to start anything
4 27 23:42:46 <jpBrett> what i was saying was
4 27 23:42:55 <jpBrett> there is input delay between a blue connection and a yellow connection
4 27 23:43:00 <jpBrett> you are saying training mode has input delay
4 27 23:43:04 <jpBrett> what are you comparing it to
4 27 23:43:37 <MechaX>  I get that the terminology was not "correct," but you don't get what I meant by it?
4 27 23:43:45 <jpBrett> you are saying it has more startup
4 27 23:43:47 <jpBrett> thats fine
4 27 23:43:51 <jpBrett> but then you wrote:
4 27 23:43:59 <jpBrett> MechaX: That is my main point; comparing longer start-up in combination with input delay on yellow/red connections
4 27 23:44:07 <jpBrett> and i don't actually understand what that means
4 27 23:44:50 <MechaX>  Longer start-up compared to other games, and input delay based on connection speeds? I really don't know how to break that down any more than that
4 27 23:45:38 <jpBrett> "compared to other games"
4 27 23:45:41 <jpBrett> was what i was looking for
4 27 23:45:43 <jpBrett> thanks for clarifying
4 27 23:47:15 <jpBrett> also you probably meant comparatively longer startup?
4 27 23:47:30 <jpBrett> because that previous sentence looked like you wanted to compare longer startup WITH input delay
4 27 23:47:37 <jpBrett> rather than them being two reasons for a point I don't have a problem with
4 27 23:47:46 <jpBrett> not trying to be condescending, just explaining why I didn't understand you
4 27 23:48:25 <jpBrett> your point makes sense, and I really cant say much because I have barely any experience playing in lag
4 27 23:48:43 <Kyouji>  the joys of Japanese internet
4 27 23:48:51 <Kyouji>  with local players
4 27 23:49:38 <Shouta>  I'm pretty sure you guys are talking about different thigns in the first place
4 27 23:50:08 <Shouta>  Enron and Mech are talking the unplayable, slideshow lag that you get with a lot of games
4 27 23:50:44 <haly>    the newtyping
4 27 23:50:52 <jpBrett> lol
4 27 23:51:02 <MechaX>  Well, actually when Brett clarified he was talking about input delay itself, I switched gears from the slideshow lag slowdown to input itself.
4 27 23:51:07 <haly>    and i think you're talking about the intrinsic lag in all networked games
4 27 23:51:17 * XeRo は IRC から離れました ()
4 27 23:51:22 <Kyouji>  haly, feed me missiles
4 27 23:51:22 <jpBrett> mechax and I are on the same page and we pretty much finished that convo
4 27 23:51:46 <haly>    :3
4 27 23:51:46 <jpBrett> shouta: I am in the wrong because I usually don't associate the word lag with something I usually hear described as "slowdown"
4 27 23:52:33 <Enron>   kyouji: he'll feed them to you all right.
4 27 23:52:35 <Enron>   RIGHT IN THE BACK.
4 27 23:52:39 <Shouta>  well slowdown would be correct, but because that sort of thing occurs as a result of poor latency, lag is the term used most of the time
4 27 23:52:54 <Shouta>  At least in most games
4 27 23:53:03 <Kyouji>  Enron:  =/
4 27 23:53:07 <MechaX>  "Lag", "slowdown", and "framerate drop..." just a lot of terms that really get blurred together a lot of the time
4 27 23:53:11 <Enron>   i never notice this "slowdown" i guess because i don't play any fighting games at all
4 27 23:53:14 <Enron>   except for this one
4 27 23:53:24 <Enron>   ive got nothing to compare it to
4 27 23:53:49 <Shouta>  Gundam has a good netcode because it runs well and also because it doesn't cause all that stupid slowdown when the latency drops below optimal
4 27 23:54:01 <Enron>   i just know when I hit a button and 2 seconds later it happens, accompanied by a freeze
4 27 23:54:03 <MechaX>  I can't speak much for FGs at the competitive level, especially since Smash Bros Melee (lol) was the only game I actually played at a serious competitive level
4 27 23:54:14 <Enron>   like whenever dunpeal plays with us, lolz.
4 27 23:54:27 <haly>    fountain of lags
4 27 23:54:34 <MechaX>  And that was more due to glitches in the engine and what not... but that's another story. but yeah, dunpeal internet...
4 27 23:54:49 <jpBrett> it doesn't cause all that stupid slowdown when the latency drops below optimal <- ?
4 27 23:54:52 <MechaX>  Deceptive green connection on dunpeal's part, slideshow matches
4 27 23:55:13 <Shouta>  Brett: Frame drops, desynch, etc
4 27 23:55:47 <jpBrett> so then...
4 27 23:55:57 <Shouta>  in FPS, it can cause characters to jump around and the like
4 27 23:56:08 <jpBrett> ....okay.
4 27 23:56:12 <jpBrett> I guess you're right
4 27 23:56:20 <Enron>   warping soldiers~
4 27 23:56:28 <Shouta>  Gundam only gets that bad at the absolute worst red
4 27 23:56:29 <Enron>   like every other game of rogue spear online
4 27 23:56:31 <Enron>   back in the day
4 27 23:56:41 <jpBrett> hrmmmmmm
4 27 23:56:46 <jpBrett> I'd like to disagree with you about that...
4 27 23:56:58 <Shouta>  You get input various levels of input lag below blue/green but it's still a playable game even at yellow
4 27 23:57:11 <jpBrett> considering I experience "that stupid slow down" even in blue.
4 27 23:57:12 <Enron>   ive only ever played one game competitively, come to think of it
4 27 23:57:13 <Shouta>  It's not as good as it could be but it's far better than other games in similar conditions
4 27 23:57:18 <Enron>   and that was nearly 15 years ago
4 27 23:57:22 <Shouta>  Really?
4 27 23:57:25 <jpBrett> Yes.
4 27 23:57:31 <Shouta>  I've never had that kind of slowdown on blue
4 27 23:57:38 <Shouta>  especially when I was in Japan
4 27 23:57:42 <MechaX>  Well... you get outliers like Donkey who are always in the red and often hosts, but rarely gets slowdown and minimal delay
4 27 23:57:44 <jpBrett> That's pretty lucky of you.
4 27 23:57:56 <Shouta>  Hikari Fiber powah
4 27 23:57:56 <jpBrett> I agree with the netcode being good, it is.
4 27 23:58:01 <jpBrett> actually I'm on hikari fiber.
4 27 23:58:13 <Shouta>  Hrm
4 27 23:58:15 <Shouta>  Wonder why then
4 27 23:58:16 <jpBrett> I'm just saying these things happen.
4 27 23:58:52 <Shouta>  I mean, I played like 500 matches on the home version before I came back to the US and didn't have anything slowdown-wise
4 27 23:59:03 <jpBrett> Well
4 27 23:59:05 <Shouta>  I've also only had slowdown a handful of times here
4 27 23:59:09 <jpBrett> It doesn't happen ALL the time
4 27 23:59:10 <jpBrett> I'm just saying
4 27 23:59:12 <jpBrett> It happens.
4 27 23:59:13 <Enron>   dat dunpeal
4 27 23:59:21 <Shouta>  yes, I blame dunpeal lol
4 27 23:59:22 <jpBrett> and 500 on the first beginning part of release isn't a lot to go by
4 27 23:59:25 <jpBrett> but w/e
4 27 23:59:32 <jpBrett> I'm not really disagreeing with you per se
4 27 23:59:39 <jpBrett> just saying those things do exist, though infrequently
4 27 23:59:49 <jpBrett> its not like its just immune to random disconnects or slow down
4 27 23:59:57 <Shouta>  Well, 500 at the start has plus/minus from a comparison standpoint
4 28 00:00:39 <Shouta>  but yeah, definitely not immune from it
4 28 00:01:04 <jpBrett> Anyways Enron
4 28 00:01:11 <jpBrett> I'm sorry if I upset you
4 28 00:01:20 <Kyouji>  Shouta, found the next game you ought to play.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzIoUR8j3yE
4 28 00:01:21 <jpBrett> And really there's not reason to have to tell me your competitive life story
4 28 00:01:40 <jpBrett> nor am I even calling you inexperienced or w/e, I haven't even played any games with you...
4 28 00:01:46 <Enron>    <jpBrett> And really there's not reason to have to tell me your competitive life story - see?
4 28 00:01:51 <Enron>   the apology was fine
4 28 00:01:57 <Enron>   until you threw that in there
4 28 00:01:58 <jpBrett> !?
4 28 00:02:06 <Shouta>  lol
4 28 00:02:10 <Shouta>  Enron's not good with words at times either
4 28 00:02:12 <jpBrett> ......okay.
4 28 00:02:14 <Enron>   can we just
4 28 00:02:15 <MechaX>  *pulls up a folding chair*
4 28 00:02:16 <Enron>   stop talking