DQ of Thoctar

Only logs are from #judges4you and PMs.

Logs from judges for you are edited to show only the discussion ongoing between me and his match, as there were other rulings coming in and out throughout.

[18:37:59] <pankill> whatever opponent load wrong deck we played a whole game and now he say he needs to load right deck
[18:38:01] <pankill> what happens
[18:38:43] <@moscowdemon> pankill, I have you listed as winning 2-0
[18:38:54] <pankill> it is wrong list
[18:39:08] <pankill> cause we played game and he left i thought he left rage quiting
[18:39:14] <pankill> i told him to play g2
[18:39:18] <pankill> and we report result to you
[18:39:25] <pankill> and if you load wrong deck it is a gl
[18:39:26] <@moscowdemon> You should inform me of this when it happens.
[18:39:39] <pankill> i did not knew he loaded wrond deck
[18:39:41] <pankill> we played whole game
[18:39:44] <pankill> then he left
[18:39:46] <@moscowdemon> Unfortunately, I can't penalize him since the problem wasn't caught before the game began.
[18:39:47] <Thoctar> me play only g1
[18:39:59] <@moscowdemon> but Thoctar, can you explain to me WHY you played the whole game?
[18:40:34] <Thoctar> cause i was joined 2 tourneys at a time
[18:41:09] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, but you knew you had the wrong deck loaded?
[18:41:28] <Thoctar> nop
[18:41:41] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, so you had no clue you had the wrong deck loaded?
[18:41:54] <pankill> moscow he is obv lying you know if you have the correct deck since the time you draw starting hand
[18:42:21] <@moscowdemon> pankill, please wait patiently.
[18:42:22] <Thoctar> nop, any clue i'm sorry that's why i drop g1
[18:42:27] <pankill> i remember in top4 trial loading wrong deck coming instantly in judges and isuing a game loss for me
[18:42:38] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, but you said to your opponent you had the wrong deck?
[18:43:08] <Thoctar> yep after i drop g1 i tell him by chat
[18:43:43] <pankill> after we played whole game one he told me that in magic-league chat is the correct phrase
[18:44:03] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, but you played the whole game, you must have known it was the wrong deck, as you TOLD your opponent this.
[18:44:12] <@moscowdemon> It is not good to lie to me about this Thoctar, I need the truth.
[18:44:19] <Thoctar> i play 3 turns i think
[18:44:23] <Thoctar> 3 or 4 turns
[18:44:26] <pankill> we played
[18:44:31] <pankill> a game he casted primeval titan
[18:44:35] <pankill> so around 6 turn
[18:44:40] <pankill> and you keep on lying
[18:44:46] <pankill> it is ridicoulous
[18:44:46] <Thoctar> the truth is: i play 4 turns aprox
[18:44:48] <@moscowdemon> pankill, do you have logs?
[18:44:56] <Thoctar> please pankill dont judge me thankxs
[18:45:18] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, I am going to check your logs. If it is more than 3 turns, you realize what that means right?
[18:45:40] <pankill> no i do not i have closed the aplication
[18:45:41] <Thoctar> i  play 4 turns aprox, then i realise i was playing the same deck in other mws windows..so..one of them is not the one i submit
[18:45:44] <pankill> and it is mroe than 3 turns y
[18:46:01] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, and what did you do when you noticed this?
[18:46:14] <Thoctar> i'm telling u i play 4 games aprox, not even 10!
[18:46:30] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, what did you do when you noticed you had the wrong deck loaded?
[18:46:33] <pankill> closed the aplication moscow that what he did
[18:46:50] <Thoctar> cause i was playing 2 tourneys (modern and t2) at a time with the same deck
[18:47:00] <Thoctar> so...something was wrong
[18:47:01] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, just answer what I am asking.
[18:47:36] <Thoctar> i notice that i was playing with a wrong deck, maybe at 4 or 5 turn
[18:48:10] <Thoctar> if u check the logs and the deck i submit u can see that
[18:49:34] <Thoctar> i load a wrong deck, i tell him after i drop the g1 and i'm telling u right now....
[18:50:27] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, so you noticed you had the wrong deck, and simply left the game?
[18:50:45] <Thoctar> left the game and tell him the situation by chat
[18:51:16] <Thoctar> i load a t2 deck in a mdoern tourney
[18:51:24] <@moscowdemon> Why didn't you just tell him in the game chat?
[18:51:28] <pankill> if he gave you full logs i thought at the end he types gg and leaves game
[18:51:42] <pankill> this is why i thought he ragquited and reported 2-0
[18:51:50] <pankill> he can do that also so i leave ap and dont have logs
[18:52:05] <Thoctar> but if i leave the mwsplay i lost g1, but not the match
[18:52:21] <@moscowdemon> So how much time is in the round now?
[18:52:29] <Thoctar> jsut don't know why he reported 2-0 when i quit mws play
[18:52:36] <pankill> i think the point is no the gl or math loss but why you do that and we have to w8 30 mins for something as simple as that
[18:52:43] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, I can see his reasoning for believing you conceded the match.
[18:52:59] <@moscowdemon> pankill, how much time is remaining in your round?
[18:53:14] <Thoctar> if i concede the match i just need to tell me ggs
[18:53:21] <Thoctar> or "i concede"
[18:53:30] <pankill> well ggs with disconnect
[18:53:37] <@moscowdemon> Also, was there over 5 minutes from after he left the game before he contacted you again?
[18:53:38] <pankill> is like tsaying that
[18:54:00] <pankill> yes because i was out of channel thought game was over and went to toilet
(During all this, Alpha_n1 joined and parted over some period of time, I PM him asking why he joined, I will include his logs after.)
[18:54:05] <Thoctar> nop, i contact him inmediatly
[18:54:06] <pankill> then loged in channel and saw chat go g2
[18:54:27] <Thoctar> lol..u left the chat room
[18:54:29] <pankill> saw his wisper
[18:54:30] <@moscowdemon> So now what I need are timestamps from your logs. If one of you has it.
[18:54:53] <Thoctar> this guy has it, i close mwsplay
[18:54:57] <@moscowdemon> If either of you have timestamps on your PMs, please pastebin them or screenshot them.
[18:55:07] <pankill> i told you i close mws play when i saw you disconecting
[18:55:19] <Thoctar> so..how can i contact u?
[18:55:30] <Thoctar> u report 2-0 andu u close
[18:55:39] <@moscowdemon> If you guys aren't going to talk to me, we are going to have problems.
[18:55:40] <pankill> contact me from what saying gg and disconecting?
[18:55:49] <@moscowdemon> STOP ARGUING
[18:56:04] <pankill> i do not argue with him
[18:56:16] <@moscowdemon> pankill: copy and paste your PMs with Thoctar on www.pastebin.com and link me to them
[18:56:33] <Thoctar> i noticed i was playing with a wrong deck y close mwsplay and i open it again, and trying to contact him in the chat room but he run away
[18:56:36] <pankill> are there saved somewher in pc cause i hace closed wintow
[18:56:45] <@moscowdemon> pankill, are you using mIRC?
[18:57:03] <pankill> really my knowledge of pc are lacing i do not even know what mirc is
[18:57:11] <@moscowdemon> pankill, how do you get onto IRC here
[18:57:33] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, he ran away? How long did he leave IRC>
[18:57:53] <pankill> jave if i get your question
[18:57:58] <Thoctar> i close mwsplay, open the chat room and he wasn't there
[18:57:59] <pankill> java*
[18:58:11] <pankill> y thoctar you made a story stick with it
[18:58:12] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, how long was he gone?
[18:58:22] <pankill> 5 mins i told you
[18:58:23] <Thoctar> like 3 minutes
[18:58:27] <@moscowdemon> pankill, I don't believe java has a log database.
[18:58:38] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, so he left the chatroom for 3 minutes?
[18:58:49] <Thoctar> he was left like 3-5 minutes
[18:58:56] <Thoctar> then he came back
[18:59:04] <Thoctar> and i told him the situation
[18:59:11] <@moscowdemon> What happened from there?
[18:59:18] <pankill> you told me he talks to tc and i asked him to come judges
[18:59:29] <pankill> he*
[18:59:36] <Thoctar> i was playing 2 tourneys with the same deck, i noticed something was wrong
[18:59:51] <@moscowdemon> So what is the exact mini you guys are in?
[19:00:12] <Thoctar> modern 2
[19:00:13] <pankill> modern #tourney
[19:00:15] <pankill> 3
[19:00:20] <@moscowdemon> pankill, did you ever upload the game logs like I asked?
[19:00:30] <pankill> 2*
[19:00:51] <pankill> i told you again i closed the ap after game cause i thought he quited i always close add when i end a match
[19:01:06] <@moscowdemon> Alright, well you should turn on auto-save logs in the options.
[19:01:14] <@moscowdemon> so from now on, you are able to upload logs.
[19:01:28] <pankill> done
[19:01:39] <pankill> did not even know there was that option:(
[19:02:03] <pankill> but that is not the point i would not even care for ml or gl if he was mannered enouph it is jist a mini
[19:02:21] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, you need to learn how to answer a question. This should not take 20 minutes to figure out. Don't beat around the bush, just answer the judges straight forward. Now I must ask, please answer to me in PM, what decks are you playing in the modern and standard mini?
(He then PMs me, I will provide logs after. I also have PMs with pankill)
[19:03:00] <Thoctar> man, i'm from uruguay i'm talking my best english, doing my best effor, try to understand, ty
[19:03:04] <@moscowdemon> pankill, can you also PM me with what cards were played in your game 1?
[19:03:27] <pankill> from me or from opponent?
[19:03:32] <@moscowdemon> pankill, your opponent
[19:06:41] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, didn't you notice your opponent was playing a modern deck?
[19:06:52] <Thoctar> not really
[19:07:14] <@moscowdemon> So you just blindly play magic without even caring what the opponent is doing?
[19:07:17] <Thoctar> that's the whole truth, i loaded a wrong deck...that's all
[19:07:38] <@moscowdemon> You didn't even notice the opponent playing affinity cards
[19:08:04] <Thoctar> not at the first time, when i notice i drop g1
[19:09:06] <Thoctar> when i realise that, i drop g1, i close mwsplay
[19:09:31] <pankill> well i thought something was wrong cause now i remembered he casted a titanic growth but then i thought he just plays a bad deck
[19:09:47] <pankill> dunno how he does not get the idea we are playing wrong format
[19:09:52] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, did you play any ramp spells in the match against pankill?
[19:10:22] <Thoctar> can't remember that right now
[19:10:54] <@moscowdemon> pankill, you said Thoctar cast a Primeval Titan?
[19:11:07] <pankill> yes he did
[19:11:13] <pankill> and a lanowar elf t1
[19:11:29] <@moscowdemon> pankill, so assuming this is correct: it was turn 5 that the titan was cast?
[19:11:33] <Thoctar> a llanowar elf yes but primeval not, i dont have the mana to play it
[19:11:54] <pankill> moscow i can not be 100 percent sure but t4 or t5 i dont remember any other ramp spell
[19:11:58] <@moscowdemon> pankill, you are positive your opponent cast a Primeval Titan?
[19:12:04] <pankill> 100 percent sure
[19:12:06] <pankill> about that
[19:14:42] <Thoctar> so?
[19:16:37] <Thoctar> ok...i close this window?
[19:17:07] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, since neither of you have logs of anything, I have to determine a ruling using only what I have been told by you both. I am determining that you have commited Cheating - Fraud. You have been lying and changing your story over and over as we go. This is unacceptable. The penalty for Cheating - Fraud is a Disqualification. This comes with a ban length to be determined by the conduct director. pankill, your report of 2-0 will stand.
[19:17:56] <Thoctar> lol...cheating?' i tell u over and over again that i load a wrong deck so i quit the game. point
[19:18:04] <Thoctar> that's the whole story
[19:18:37] <Thoctar> so pelase don't tell me that i'm a cheater when i'm addmiting that i play with a wrong deck
[19:19:19] <Thoctar> so please don't tell me i'm a cheater
[19:21:04] <Thoctar> please i need an answer
[19:21:21] <pankill> point is thoctar and you have to understand that i did not want to issue you a match loss or even a ban period but when you behave like this and you lying obviously
[19:21:35] <pankill> i cant believe som1 does not play a whole match without knowing he load wrong deck
[19:22:09] <Thoctar> i'm not lying i'm telling u i play with a wrong deck u can check it cause u are the TC of the 2 tourneys i was playing ,pelase check
[19:22:22] <&niknight> thoctar: the issue is when you pointed it out
[19:22:38] <Thoctar> at 4-5 turn i tell u before omg
[19:22:56] <&niknight> the fact that you actually played 4 or 5 turns means that you knew earlier, but refused to say anything
[19:23:08] <&niknight> that is cheating
[19:23:49] <pankill> i do not have game logs but i am telling you the truth he said gg and left the programm also
[19:23:54] <Thoctar> so, pelase dont tell me i'm a cheater when i admit i was playing with a wrong deck and i realise at 4-5 turn
[19:24:13] <&niknight> the infraction you committed is defined as cheating
[19:24:14] <&niknight> so no
[19:25:33] <Thoctar> mosco pelase, i not deserve a ban. i'm not cheating, i'm not lying, i'm telling u the true
[19:25:43] <Thoctar> i admit i play with a wrong deck
[19:26:24] <&niknight> thoctar: the final decision is made by the conduct director
[19:27:44] <Thoctar> pelase i just can speak in english cause i'm from urtuguay and i'm telling the true i play with a wrong deck i admit that
[19:28:32] <&niknight> thoctar: we are done here, please /part
[19:29:14] <Thoctar> thanks but u are wrong, u can't accept u are wrong
[19:29:47] <Thoctar> i want to talk 1c1 with a judge please, i need a revision
[19:30:05] <&niknight> thoctar: I am the judge director. I am the highest authority on all things judge related.
[19:30:15] <&niknight> I agree with the ruling given.
[19:30:19] <Thoctar> ok, i want to talk to u in private
[19:30:32] <Thoctar> i want to defend my position
[19:30:34] <&niknight> thoctar: I'm not going to let you whine in private
[19:30:37] <@moscowdemon> Thoctar, this matter is over. You can email the conduct director (email on site) if you wish to state your case to him. But you need to /part here now.
[19:30:40] <&niknight> you had a chance to do so, and didn't.

He then continues with asking about how long he will be banned, etc, niknight gives him the "it is conduct director's call" It is very repetitive of him, so not worth the space.

PMs with Alpha_n1

[18:50:17] <Alpha_n1> yeah
[18:50:21] <Alpha_n1> thotcar
[18:50:23] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:44 [Thoctar] It is now turn 2 (Thoctar)
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:44 [Thoctar] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:45 [Thoctar] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:45 [Thoctar] Thoctar draws a card
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:46 [Thoctar] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:47 [Thoctar] Thoctar plays Sacred Foundry from Hand
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:49 [Thoctar] Thoctar's life total is now 18 (-2)
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:50 [Thoctar] Thoctar taps Sacred Foundry
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:50 [Thoctar] Thoctar plays Steppe Lynx from Hand
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:51 [Thoctar] It is now the End Phase, Cleanup Step
[18:50:24] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:52 [Thoctar] <Thoctar> End my turn
[18:50:25] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:58 [Alpha_n1] <Alpha_n1> that's t?
[18:50:26] <Alpha_n1> 0:01:01 [Alpha_n1] <Alpha_n1> that's t2?
[18:50:27] <Alpha_n1> 0:01:10 [Thoctar] <Thoctar> fail...
[18:50:28] <Alpha_n1> 0:01:15 [Thoctar] <Thoctar> wrong deck lol
[18:50:29] <Alpha_n1> 0:01:21 [Thoctar] <Opponent is requesting a new game>
[18:50:30] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:00 [Thoctar] Thoctar shuffles library
[18:50:31] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:00 [Alpha_n1] <> 1-0 for me ok?
[18:50:32] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:00 [Thoctar] <Thoctar> Let's do this
[18:50:33] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:00 [Thoctar] Thoctar draws 0 cards
[18:50:34] <Alpha_n1> 0:00:00 [Thoctar] <Thoctar> ok thats it
[18:50:45] <Alpha_n1> he played a sacred foundry on the standard mini, and didn't want to conceed the game
[18:50:55] <moscowdemon> It seems like he did.
[18:50:56] <Alpha_n1> but he ended up conceding and it was fine
[18:50:58] <Alpha_n1> :)

PMs with Thoctar
I asked for his deck types, so to demonstrate it wasn't similar.
[19:03:48] <Thoctar> pankill was playing an affinity deck
[19:03:51] <Thoctar> artifacts
[19:04:02] <moscowdemon> what were YOU playing
[19:04:11] <Thoctar> monogreend
[19:04:24] <Thoctar> the same deck i submit in standrd 3
[19:04:42] <moscowdemon> So you are playing the same monogreen deck in both standard and modern?
[19:04:50] <Thoctar> u can check that, same decks in modern 2 and standard 3
[19:04:57] <Thoctar> yep
[19:05:13] <Thoctar> but in modern 2 i submit w/r deck

PMs with pankill
I asked for cards played, to confirm with Thoctar's PMs
[19:03:50] <pankill> he playe t1 lanowar elfs t2 strangle geist
[19:03:57] <pankill> the 2/1 haste guy
[19:04:06] <moscowdemon> ok, ty :)
[19:04:11] <pankill> he played only forest and at some point he cast a prime titan
[19:04:14] <pankill> i dont remember anything else
[19:04:50] <moscowdemon> ok ty

My belief and stance in this case is that he was well aware he was playing with the wrong deck, but didn't point it out until it became useful to him (such as him beginning to lose the game). Alpha_n1 also points out that Thoctar was double queueing and had loaded the wrong deck initially there as well.