Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B Part 2 Subtitles [EN] Raw WebVTT

WEBVTT

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♪ (intro music) ♪

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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome.

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This is James Corbett of
CorbettReport.com.

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It is currently the 8th of February, 2013
here in the Land of the Rising Sun,

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and tonight we are joined once again

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on the line from the western
United States

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by our old friend Sibel Edmonds

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of BoilingFrogsPost.com.

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And for those of you who missed

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our recent conversation with Sibel

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on Operation Gladio

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and how that relates
to the current war on terror,

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I would wholeheartedly suggest

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you go and re-acquaint yourself,
or acquaint yourself, with that interview.

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A ton of fascinating information

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in that first interview,

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and this is the second interview

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in what promises to be a series
of interviews on this subject

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as we continue exploring deeper

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into Operation Gladio Plan B

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and how that ties in to the current
War on Terror.

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So Sibel, thank you once again
for your time tonight.

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Sure.

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Well, let's pick up

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where we left off last time.

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We really did cover quite a bit
about the ultranationalists

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and how that was used
in Operation Gladio in Turkey

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in the 1960s, 70s, 80s,

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and how that leads into the
current time-frame.

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And we talked a bit about
the current era, the War on Terror.

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But let's start getting more
into that specifically.

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And there's a couple of news stories
that have just occurred

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in the last couple of weeks

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that might provide a good starting point
or an entrée to this conversation.

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And I want to start with the recent
bombing, in Ankara, of the US Embassy.

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And people might have followed this story,

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but some of the details that have
come out are

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-- or at least the way they're being
framed in the mainstream media --

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are quite interesting.
For example,

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we have this from <i>The Times of Israel</i>
from last week:

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"Turkey: Embassy bombers cling
to Cold War ideology."

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And it says,
"Some speculate that the DHKP-C"

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"targeted the old 'imperialist' nemesis
of leftist radicals everywhere"

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"in efforts to oust Assad."

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And this article starts by saying,

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"Long before al-Qaeda,"

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"when the Cold War gripped the world,"

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"leftist terrorists staged
spectacular attacks"

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"in a doomed campaign
to overthrow governments"

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"and impose their vision
of a socialist utopia."

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"The bulk of these extremist groups
eventually drifted into oblivion,"

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gutted by police pressure, internal rifts,

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and an ideology undercut
by Communism's fall.

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"In Turkey, one cult-like group
didn't get the memo."

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And it goes on to talk about
how this group

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-- the Revolutionary People's
Liberation Party Front, or the DHKPC --

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is responsible for this bombing.

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Sibel, what do you make of this bombing

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and how it's being framed right now

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in terms of this Cold War ideology
leftover of the socialist radicals?

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It's very interesting,

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because you can't really get to the
bottom of what's going on there.

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As you said, with all these
conflicting reports

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that is coming out on this attack.

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And as far as Turkey and Turkish media

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and the Turkish government goes,

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whenever they say "left"

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and "the communists"

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and "these groups"

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and "these cults,"

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they're always talking about Russia.

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And another way they framed
this latest incident was

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tie it, again, to Syria and to Assad.

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Because these people are very pissed
off, they are very angry:

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the Turkish government's support
of the United States

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and the foreign influence there to Assad.

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And, well, let's see:

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they are Communist,

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they are leftist,

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they are pro-Assad.

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And so... and then we have had
one superpower

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-- or former superpower --

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who has been stepping in and saying,

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"No, you can't attack Syria,"

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and has been an obstacle

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to some of our plans for Syria.

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And that is, who? Russia.

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So... so it starts coming all together,

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and in a way maybe it's an
indirect message

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-- because I'm sure they get the direct
message through different channels --

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to Russia, saying:

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"OK, well, we're gonna have
some of these incidents,"

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"and you're gonna start looking
really bad internationally."

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And so that's what it looks like.

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The <i>most important</i> thing
in terms of timing on this

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is the recent report

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-- the mainstream media is not
really playing it big yet,

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not in the United States.

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It's <i>huge</i> in Turkey, and it's very big

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in the rest of the Middle East.

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All these Arabic publications:

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from Egypt, to Saudi Arabia,

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to even Pakistan.

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And that is: the recent arrest

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-- and immediate <i>release</i> of --

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Bin Laden's son-in-law.

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Well, this guy, Bin Laden's son-in-law,

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since 2000 actually has been

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most wanted internationally.

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And if you recall, Bin Laden

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really never directly claimed

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responsibility for 9/11.

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It has never been this clear claim

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of responsibility for 9/11.

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On the other hand, this guy,

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Bin Laden's son-in-law...

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-- who's supposed to be among top five
al-Qaeda leaders and number two

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spokesperson for so-called al-Qaeda:
and this is Bin Laden's son-in-law --

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he is the one who did the
highest number

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of these so-called videos that
kept popping up

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between 2001, 9/11, and 2008.

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At least six or seven videos

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came out that this guy
was saying, "OK, we did great,"

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and in some ways claiming
responsibility for 9/11,

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and then coming and threatening
over Iraq and everything.

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So this guy has been wanted,

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and the rumor has been

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-- or had been until recently --

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that he was in Iran, of all places.

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Now you have to remember,

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Iran has <i>never, ever</i> had good relations

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-- or <i>any</i> relationship --
with al-Qaeda.

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There were certain geographic
locations in Iran

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that had a high level of activities,

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but that area is considered
the no-man's zone:

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and that is Sistan and Baluchistan.

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And that is shared by Pakistan as well.

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And we know that Khalid Sheikh
Mohammed has been active there,

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including Bin Laden,

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Bin Laden's son-in-law.

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On and off, this region
has been very important.

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And this region <i>also</i> has been very
important for the United States.

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We have been doing <i>a lot</i> of things
in Baluchistan.

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Baluchistan, just like Xinjiang
that I mentioned,

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is <i>another</i> area that you don't
hear much report.

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All we know as Americans, in general,

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is that there are all these
terror incidents;

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there are people who want
independence;

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Pakistan: they're abusing them, they're
oppressing them, and...

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And so, anyhow:

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Baluchistan, Sistan, but not Iran.

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You're looking at Sunni factions

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-- and these are the Wahhabis;
this is Bin Laden.

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You're looking... Iran's Shias.

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Iran and Bin Laden and...

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-- or, so-called al-Qaeda --

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they've never had <i>anything</i> jointly.
<i>Nothing.</i>

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In fact, during the time
when I was in the FBI after 9/11,

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we -- the United States --
we tried very hard

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to find <i>something</i> to link Iran to 9/11.

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And they couldn't.
They couldn't even make it up:

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I mean, it was that far-fetched.

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However, the rumor has been

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-- and I have no idea how it started:
usually we don't have any idea

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how these things start; it just gets to
be placed out there, then it circulates --

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was that Bin Laden's son-in-law
went to Iran; he was arrested in Iran;

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and Iran is holding several key
al-Qaeda members,

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in either prisons
or some sort of house arrest in Iran.

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Never confirmed;
never a shred of evidence.

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Anyhow, in October

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-- uh, in February,

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that would be on February 2nd or 3rd,

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here is the headline saying,

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"Bin Laden's son-in-law was arrested
in Turkey by Turkish authorities."

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And he was...
-- and this is Bin Laden's son-in-law --

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he was staying at this five-star hotel

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only two blocks from the
Presidential Palace.

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In a way, hiding there, in a five-star...

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-- it's a penthouse room,
according to the Turkish media.

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And how did this happen?

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So, you have Bin Laden's son-in-law

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-- one of the top five al-Qaeda leaders
most wanted,

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or wanted by the international
community --

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and he is in this penthouse
in this hotel

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in capital city of Turkey,

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two blocks from the Presidential Palace.

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And the story that Turkish government
fed to the media was,

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"This is how it happened:" They...

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-- this is "they" being the
Turkish government --

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they got a call from the CIA.

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And CIA said,

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"We want to give you a very
important information!"

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"Bin Laden's son-in-law,"

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"our most wanted guy, he..."
-- maybe with a backpack or something,

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the guy who was staying in a
five-star hotel --

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"he crossed the border..."
(laughs) "from Iran,"

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"recently entered Turkey."

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"In fact, we know where he's staying: "

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"here is the name of his hotel,
and his room number."

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And Turkish authorities, they said,
"Whoo!"

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So they stormed the hotel room,

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the penthouse unit

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two blocks from the Presidential Palace.

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They took this guy and questioned him;

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interrogated him.

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<i>Temporarily</i>, they held him.

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And again, it's very interesting:

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it's not a regular criminal
or terrorism-related police station;

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it's in a totally different

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political, intelligence-related station

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that they held him.

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Then they said they don't have any
evidence indicating that this guy

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-- Bin Laden's son-in-law,
the internationally most wanted guy,

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al-Qaeda's number four or number five --

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has done anything against Turkey,

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or has threatened Turkish security
in any way.

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And because of that, they were
going to release him.

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Then the articles -- these newspapers in
Turkey -- they are saying,

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"Well, the US said,
'But, we want him!'"

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"'We want him in Guantánamo!'"

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"'I mean, this guy: imagine
how much information he has on 9/11!'"

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"'As you know, we've never been able
to have anyone in court.'"

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"'They're either dead or they
have disappeared.'"

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"'Not a single person!'"

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"'So we want him.
Give this guy to us.'"

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And Turkey said,

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"Uh, sorry, we don't have this
extradition treaty with you."

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"And as we said, this guy
hasn't done anything to us."

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"'So we are not gonna give him,
hand him to you."

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And the CIA and the State Department,
the US Government, said,

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"Oh, OK." Hmm...
"We are not happy, but fine."

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Now, as I said...

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Definite... and keep in mind,
this is the same CIA that has

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abducted citizens from other countries
that they have nothing to do with

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-- including, famously, Italy and
other places --

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and flown them halfway across the world
to torture them.

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Exactly.

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But they won't do that with
this person, apparently.

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First of all, it's Turkey.
And Turkey has been

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one of our <i>top</i> allies in detaining

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-- most of them innocent --
people.

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Putting them in these black sites
and torturing them.

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Taking them into Guantánamo.

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<i>Since when</i> we are paying attention

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to some sorts of international rules

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like extradition treaties?

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After all, as you said,

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we had our Gulfstream

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with our CIA psychopaths with ski masks

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landing in Sweden and saying,

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"We want that guy, that guy, that guy."
And Sweden says, "Yes."

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And they just put chains
around their ankles

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and they hand them over.

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No evidence sought.

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This is what we've been doing.

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And then we -- basically, it's out

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that 99% of people in Guantánamo, we
have <i>no</i> evidence against these people.

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They had <i>nothing</i> to do with al-Qaeda.

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Now yet, based on our <i>own claim</i>,

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this is one of the <i>top</i> al-Qaeda people.

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Basically it was, what? Bin Laden,
Zawahiri,

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Mullah Omar from the Taliban side.

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This guy is number four or number five,
and is wanted.

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Turkey says,
"We're not gonna give him to you."

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And none of our rendition stuff
applies to this:

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<i>We don't want this guy.</i>

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<i>Why</i> don't we want this guy?

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And that is the question that people
should be asking.

00:12:22.257 --> 00:12:24.640
But then again: where is it?

00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:28.265
-- the news and analysis of this incident
here in the United States

00:12:28.265 --> 00:12:31.939
for people to even look at and then
ask the question?

00:12:31.939 --> 00:12:33.874
But again: again, very important,

00:12:33.874 --> 00:12:36.252
because you are looking at,
again, Turkey.

00:12:36.900 --> 00:12:42.048
You're looking at a high-level, now,
so-called "al-Qaeda" leader.

00:12:42.498 --> 00:12:45.450
And as we get into the topics

00:12:45.450 --> 00:12:47.230
from where we left last time,

00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.236
you keep seeing this same pattern.

00:12:50.236 --> 00:12:52.525
You're gonna keep seeing the
same pattern <i>again</i>.

00:12:52.525 --> 00:12:55.205
<i>Another</i> top guy that we declared later

00:12:55.205 --> 00:12:58.020
as top al-Qaeda financier and terrorist,

00:12:58.020 --> 00:13:00.999
and that was Yasin al-Qadi.

00:13:01.269 --> 00:13:03.638
And the name, people may recognize it

00:13:03.638 --> 00:13:07.547
via P-Tech and the P-Tech incident.

00:13:07.547 --> 00:13:10.163
Well: Yasin al-Qadi, after 9/11

00:13:10.163 --> 00:13:11.941
-- without being touched --

00:13:11.941 --> 00:13:15.664
he left the United States, went for a while -- for about six to eight months --

00:13:15.664 --> 00:13:18.341
and lived in Albania. He has
Albanian passport.

00:13:18.341 --> 00:13:20.786
From Albania, he went to Turkey.

00:13:21.306 --> 00:13:25.548
And while he was in Turkey,
he still operated.

00:13:25.548 --> 00:13:27.959
He was totally, completely operational.

00:13:27.959 --> 00:13:30.162
And the United States did
the same thing.

00:13:30.162 --> 00:13:33.781
They asked Turkey, they said,
"We want this guy. We want al-Qadi."

00:13:33.781 --> 00:13:37.334
"Look, he is wanted; his financial
network is wanted."

00:13:37.334 --> 00:13:39.075
And same thing: Turkey said,

00:13:39.075 --> 00:13:42.098
"Oh, sorry. There is nothing here
that indicates"

00:13:42.098 --> 00:13:45.699
"he has done anything criminal or
terrorist-related here in Turkey."

00:13:45.699 --> 00:13:47.322
"We're not gonna give him to you."

00:13:47.322 --> 00:13:50.941
And so he very nicely settled there

00:13:50.941 --> 00:13:53.003
with all his operations and networks,

00:13:53.003 --> 00:13:54.909
and he's been operational.

00:13:54.909 --> 00:13:57.288
And now, currently, he is in the
United Kingdom.

00:13:57.288 --> 00:14:01.616
Because he basically brought these
lawsuits against the United Nations,

00:14:01.616 --> 00:14:03.079
and finally...

00:14:03.079 --> 00:14:05.915
-- a few months ago, or a year ago --

00:14:05.915 --> 00:14:07.936
United Nations said,

00:14:07.936 --> 00:14:11.590
"OK, well, fine: he's not
really a terrorist."

00:14:11.880 --> 00:14:15.149
"Nobody has anything evidence
or anything, either,"

00:14:15.896 --> 00:14:17.805
"for the arguments of terrorist or not."

00:14:17.955 --> 00:14:20.974
But again, you're looking at Turkey.
And when you start looking,

00:14:20.982 --> 00:14:22.886
you're gonna see a lot of
these characters.

00:14:22.886 --> 00:14:26.982
We're gonna see a lot of these people
ending up in Turkey

00:14:26.982 --> 00:14:30.229
and being protected in Turkey
with <i>our</i> OK.

00:14:30.229 --> 00:14:34.277
Because, as we said: take a look
at the recent reports

00:14:34.277 --> 00:14:36.453
and see how Turkey has been

00:14:36.453 --> 00:14:39.357
very, very readily complying

00:14:39.357 --> 00:14:41.328
with all these illegal practices

00:14:41.328 --> 00:14:43.654
of black sites, rendition.

00:14:43.774 --> 00:14:47.860
And you will see that on one hand
they've been doing it

00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:48.861
-- but why? --

00:14:48.861 --> 00:14:51.758
with the so-called "important" characters.

00:14:51.808 --> 00:14:54.980
Turkey has been a great haven
for these people,

00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:59.034
to go and continue their network
and their operations.

00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.619
Well, let's focus in on that al-Qadi case
for a little bit

00:15:02.619 --> 00:15:04.573
because it is such a fascinating story.

00:15:04.573 --> 00:15:07.146
And of course, immediately
in the wake of 9/11,

00:15:07.146 --> 00:15:09.275
the US was putting together its list

00:15:09.275 --> 00:15:10.893
of specially-designated terrorists

00:15:10.893 --> 00:15:13.879
and specifically looking at
financiers of terrorism.

00:15:13.881 --> 00:15:17.144
And al-Qadi made that list
in October of 2001.

00:15:17.144 --> 00:15:19.894
So immediately after 9/11,
he's put on that list.

00:15:19.894 --> 00:15:23.132
And as you indicate, in the last
four to five years

00:15:23.132 --> 00:15:25.279
he's managed to clear himself
from blacklists

00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.544
in Switzerland, the European Union,
the United Kingdom,

00:15:28.654 --> 00:15:31.564
and has managed to fend off lawsuits

00:15:31.564 --> 00:15:33.264
from 9/11 victims' family members

00:15:33.264 --> 00:15:34.983
for any culpability -- so far.

00:15:34.983 --> 00:15:37.032
But he has not yet been removed

00:15:37.032 --> 00:15:39.434
from the US specially-designated
terrorists list.

00:15:39.434 --> 00:15:42.526
And part of the investigation
that <i>put</i> him on that list

00:15:42.536 --> 00:15:46.382
goes back to an FBI investigation
from the late 1990s

00:15:46.382 --> 00:15:48.343
called Operation Vulgar Betrayal,

00:15:48.343 --> 00:15:50.802
which was led by a couple of agents

00:15:50.802 --> 00:15:53.021
that were in that FBI Chicago office.

00:15:53.631 --> 00:15:57.032
I don't know what you're <i>able</i> to say
about those investigations,

00:15:57.032 --> 00:15:59.809
but perhaps you can tell us
a little bit about that story.

00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:02.094
Sure. The agents

00:16:02.094 --> 00:16:04.933
-- Robert Wright and also John Vincent --

00:16:04.933 --> 00:16:08.825
they became members of
our organization,

00:16:08.825 --> 00:16:11.051
National Security Whistleblowers
Coalition.

00:16:11.051 --> 00:16:14.521
And because Robert Wright
was still working...

00:16:14.521 --> 00:16:16.350
-- he is <i>still</i> working with the FBI --

00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:17.360
and during this time,

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.105
-- this would be 2003, 2004 --

00:16:19.105 --> 00:16:22.673
he was under a lot of retaliation
and punishment for what he did

00:16:22.683 --> 00:16:26.722
by coming and <i>exposing</i>
this terrorist network,

00:16:26.722 --> 00:16:29.295
including their investigation;

00:16:29.295 --> 00:16:31.893
and the <i>fact</i> that the United States
government

00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:37.462
-- this wasn't the FBI itself, but
entities such as the White House,

00:16:37.462 --> 00:16:40.767
and the State Department,
and the CIA --

00:16:40.767 --> 00:16:46.229
they were forced to shut down
this very, very important investigation

00:16:46.229 --> 00:16:48.470
that, again, would have led us

00:16:48.470 --> 00:16:53.069
to all the actors and the evidence

00:16:53.069 --> 00:16:55.631
that were involved, later, in 9/11.

00:16:56.001 --> 00:16:58.623
So, this guy was under retaliation,

00:16:58.623 --> 00:17:00.262
so he couldn't become, officially,

00:17:00.262 --> 00:17:02.402
a member of my organization,
our organization,

00:17:02.402 --> 00:17:04.253
National Security Whistleblowers
Coalition.

00:17:04.253 --> 00:17:07.315
But his partner... because these two
guys, they did all this...

00:17:07.315 --> 00:17:11.303
they chased these bad guys together
in Chicago Field Office

00:17:11.943 --> 00:17:13.865
-- and that would be John Vincent --

00:17:13.865 --> 00:17:17.524
he, by then, was retired;
and <i>he</i> joined our organization,

00:17:17.524 --> 00:17:21.737
and he and I had a lot
of discussions on this,

00:17:21.737 --> 00:17:25.271
and we worked together on all this:
whistleblowers on 9/11-related issues.

00:17:25.271 --> 00:17:31.009
And again, John Vincent was one of
many, many high-level agents

00:17:31.449 --> 00:17:34.174
who went to the 9/11 Commission.

00:17:34.174 --> 00:17:35.076
And they said,

00:17:35.076 --> 00:17:37.994
"Let us present you with the evidence"

00:17:37.994 --> 00:17:40.820
"of all the things that hasn't
been out yet."

00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:42.882
"that is related to 9/11."

00:17:43.342 --> 00:17:46.856
And like many others,
he had been excluded.

00:17:46.856 --> 00:17:48.435
Same thing with Agent Wright:

00:17:48.435 --> 00:17:53.019
the FBI said the 9/11 Commission
is <i>not allowed</i> to question him.

00:17:53.019 --> 00:17:55.900
So he was never interviewed by 9/11.

00:17:55.900 --> 00:18:00.569
And he's a very key guy,
with a <i>key</i> operation,

00:18:00.569 --> 00:18:04.120
and a key investigation
of that operation.

00:18:04.120 --> 00:18:05.984
And same thing with John Vincent.

00:18:05.984 --> 00:18:07.734
So this is happening,

00:18:07.734 --> 00:18:10.861
and as I said, I keep saying,
"Chicago," and "Chicago."

00:18:10.861 --> 00:18:12.625
Because with Plan B, with Gladio,

00:18:12.625 --> 00:18:15.905
a lot of the operational

00:18:15.905 --> 00:18:21.151
and logistic aspects of Gladio Plan B

00:18:21.151 --> 00:18:24.122
was being conducted <i>from Chicago</i>.

00:18:24.502 --> 00:18:27.529
Chicago is the top, the best,

00:18:27.529 --> 00:18:30.443
the easiest city for money laundering,

00:18:31.263 --> 00:18:37.910
Because of <i>huge</i> level of corruption
within the local...

00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:39.525
the state government, Illinois,

00:18:39.525 --> 00:18:42.316
but also Chicago political figures.

00:18:42.316 --> 00:18:44.431
And again, it came out that
Dennis Hastert

00:18:44.431 --> 00:18:47.175
-- very little of it has come out --

00:18:47.175 --> 00:18:49.671
but it is the easiest place to...

00:18:50.171 --> 00:18:53.063
for these operations, it's a very
good base in the US.

00:18:53.063 --> 00:18:55.595
And I want to emphasize:
one thing that I realized

00:18:55.595 --> 00:19:00.574
from some of the questions <i>I</i> got
on Gladio Plan B was that...

00:19:00.574 --> 00:19:04.979
how does it even...
how can we even claim

00:19:04.979 --> 00:19:09.669
that US is involved with this,
Gladio operations,

00:19:09.669 --> 00:19:11.878
because it was Italian?

00:19:12.568 --> 00:19:17.115
We... the United States,
has an <i>office</i> in the Pentagon.

00:19:18.175 --> 00:19:20.544
This office has a number,
has a specific name.

00:19:20.544 --> 00:19:23.682
It's not called the
"Gladio Plan B Office,"

00:19:23.682 --> 00:19:27.511
but it is a <i>designated section</i>
in the Pentagon

00:19:27.511 --> 00:19:32.973
that <i>only</i> deals with these
Plan B operations for Gladio,

00:19:32.973 --> 00:19:35.674
which is the... via Turkish actors,

00:19:35.674 --> 00:19:38.196
and all the stuff we are doing
in Caucasus.

00:19:38.196 --> 00:19:41.104
And before that, <i>that same office</i>

00:19:41.104 --> 00:19:44.378
-- physical office, section of Pentagon --

00:19:44.378 --> 00:19:47.910
dealt with the <i>previous</i> operations
of Gladio.

00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:52.788
Not only until 1989:
all the way up to 1995, 1996.

00:19:52.788 --> 00:19:56.096
So there is actually
a <i>physical division</i>: an <i>office</i>.

00:19:56.145 --> 00:19:59.036
So it's not some <i>assumption</i>,
or some <i>conclusion</i>:

00:19:59.036 --> 00:20:02.322
<i>There is an office.</i>
There is a <i>division</i>, OK?

00:20:03.429 --> 00:20:05.147
Now, with Chicago:

00:20:05.887 --> 00:20:09.094
this is when I was working with the FBI,

00:20:09.094 --> 00:20:12.694
and you said October for Qadi
leaving the United States.

00:20:12.694 --> 00:20:14.264
And again: he left;

00:20:14.264 --> 00:20:17.472
a lot of Bin Laden family members,
business associates:

00:20:17.472 --> 00:20:19.307
<i>they</i> left, without being questioned.

00:20:19.307 --> 00:20:21.147
Qadi was not questioned either.

00:20:22.707 --> 00:20:27.172
Starting from the two, three days
after 9/11,

00:20:27.172 --> 00:20:31.354
we had this quota that we had to meet,
the FBI had to meet.

00:20:31.354 --> 00:20:34.359
And that was to round up as many
people as possible

00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.053
-- immigration violation, even
the tiniest one --

00:20:37.053 --> 00:20:39.972
to show in the newspaper all the
arrests we were making

00:20:40.362 --> 00:20:42.507
and interrogations that we were
conducting.

00:20:42.507 --> 00:20:47.442
And these were nobody. This was some
guy who violated a traffic rule.

00:20:47.442 --> 00:20:50.088
and they realized his Green Card
was expired. (claps)

00:20:50.088 --> 00:20:53.977
"He's -- he may be involved in 9/11.
We're gonna interrogate him."

00:20:53.977 --> 00:20:57.047
And taking all the resources
away from the FBI,

00:20:57.047 --> 00:21:01.085
while you had all these top people
with Bin Laden last names;

00:21:01.085 --> 00:21:04.203
Bin Laden's known associates; Qadi:

00:21:04.203 --> 00:21:07.666
nobody ever questioned them;
nobody ever detained them.

00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:11.237
They just had their first-class tickets,
or they had their private jets,

00:21:11.237 --> 00:21:13.764
and they just were out of here when
they wanted.

00:21:14.074 --> 00:21:16.213
Nobody touched them. OK?

00:21:16.213 --> 00:21:18.385
That's another very important side of,

00:21:18.385 --> 00:21:23.311
aspect of all this 9/11 enigma.

00:21:23.311 --> 00:21:27.153
So, this is when they are chasing

00:21:27.153 --> 00:21:33.692
-- in mid- to late-1990s, John Vincent
and Agent Robert Wright --

00:21:33.692 --> 00:21:35.904
they are chasing Qadi

00:21:35.904 --> 00:21:38.214
under Counterterrorism Division.

00:21:38.214 --> 00:21:40.457
They were with Counterterrorism
Division.

00:21:40.457 --> 00:21:43.919
But a lot of the work also involved...

00:21:43.919 --> 00:21:48.328
-- because it spilled over to the
White-Collar Crime Division

00:21:48.328 --> 00:21:50.734
for the FBI Chicago Field Office.

00:21:50.734 --> 00:21:54.093
Because a lot of Qadi and
these terrorists

00:21:54.673 --> 00:21:56.218
-- so-called terrorists --

00:21:56.218 --> 00:21:57.616
they were also involved

00:21:57.616 --> 00:21:59.579
in a massive amount of
money laundering,

00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:02.018
and there were a lot of financial
aspects of it.

00:22:02.018 --> 00:22:05.072
So you have Chicago Counterterrorism
involved with this;

00:22:05.072 --> 00:22:09.208
you have Chicago White-Collar Crime
Division involved with this.

00:22:09.208 --> 00:22:11.799
Meanwhile, I'm in Washington, DC.

00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.071
The main operation I'm translating
for has to do

00:22:15.071 --> 00:22:19.419
with the Washington, DC Field Office's
Turkish counterintelligence,

00:22:19.419 --> 00:22:21.123
Agent Dennis Saccher.

00:22:21.123 --> 00:22:24.544
Again, if you read... if you have read my
book, or if you read my book,

00:22:24.544 --> 00:22:27.866
you will see all the detailed
description of this.

00:22:27.866 --> 00:22:31.726
However, because I was the <i>only one</i>
translating

00:22:31.726 --> 00:22:34.730
for Turkish and Turkic languages,

00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:37.896
I also worked with field agents

00:22:37.896 --> 00:22:42.628
from other cities and towns

00:22:42.628 --> 00:22:45.994
-- and that included Chicago in Illinois.

00:22:45.994 --> 00:22:52.256
And that became my second-biggest
case that I was working with;

00:22:52.256 --> 00:22:54.821
and that was with Agent Joel Roberts.

00:22:54.821 --> 00:22:57.198
And this guy, he was not with

00:22:57.198 --> 00:22:59.218
the Counterterrorism Division
in Chicago.

00:22:59.218 --> 00:23:04.333
He had <i>his</i> case that he's been chasing
since 1996 in Chicago,

00:23:04.333 --> 00:23:08.317
but that was under <i>Turkish</i>
Counterintelligence,

00:23:08.317 --> 00:23:11.117
with targets that were... [laughs]
-- included --

00:23:11.123 --> 00:23:13.166
the person we discussed here:

00:23:13.166 --> 00:23:15.965
Abdullah Çatlı, who was living
in Chicago,

00:23:15.965 --> 00:23:17.405
and Çatlı's associates.

00:23:17.405 --> 00:23:19.932
These are all NATO Plan B,

00:23:19.932 --> 00:23:23.274
Gladio Plan B operatives that

00:23:23.274 --> 00:23:26.205
were doing a lot of things in Chicago,

00:23:26.205 --> 00:23:27.923
and they had their base in Chicago.

00:23:27.923 --> 00:23:30.560
And we discussed that:
they went to Xinjiang from there;

00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:33.135
they went to Azerbaijan
for assassination attempt.

00:23:34.625 --> 00:23:38.579
So while these agents in Chicago
for Turkish Counterintelligence

00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:41.361
-- they are chasing these
Turkish terrorists,

00:23:41.361 --> 00:23:45.826
narcotics, criminal, espionage
entities --

00:23:45.826 --> 00:23:47.801
a lot of that overlaps

00:23:47.801 --> 00:23:52.898
with what Agent Wright and John
Vincent were chasing with al-Qadi,

00:23:52.898 --> 00:23:56.353
and these were the mostly
Arabic-speaking

00:23:56.353 --> 00:24:01.657
and Saudi Arabia-rooted individuals
who have...

00:24:01.657 --> 00:24:03.398
again, there were a bunch of things.

00:24:03.398 --> 00:24:04.883
There were financial crimes,

00:24:04.883 --> 00:24:07.323
terrorism-related, et cetera.

00:24:07.323 --> 00:24:12.986
In Washington, DC, again, it was
certain diplomatic targets with Turkey.

00:24:12.986 --> 00:24:14.686
Those overlap.

00:24:14.686 --> 00:24:19.682
So the most important thing
for people to get in this is:

00:24:19.695 --> 00:24:23.218
we are not even looking at
one big investigation,

00:24:23.218 --> 00:24:25.293
all these agents working together.

00:24:25.503 --> 00:24:28.087
They were chopped up and divided.

00:24:28.807 --> 00:24:32.788
But because I worked in the
central place,

00:24:32.788 --> 00:24:35.375
and even other field offices

00:24:35.375 --> 00:24:37.675
-- whether it's someone
in Illinois, Chicago,

00:24:37.675 --> 00:24:39.069
or someone from New Jersey --

00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:41.388
they were sending <i>their</i> material
to me

00:24:41.388 --> 00:24:44.841
-- or the Turkic portion of it,
or Turkey-related portion of it --

00:24:44.841 --> 00:24:49.109
I was in this position to see
all the dots being connected,

00:24:49.109 --> 00:24:51.017
and going to my agent and saying...

00:24:51.017 --> 00:24:53.069
-- to Dennis Saccher in
Washington DC --

00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:57.975
and saying, "You may want to talk with
this guy, Robert Wright,"

00:24:57.975 --> 00:24:59.991
"or Joel Roberts in Chicago,"

00:24:59.991 --> 00:25:04.656
"because they have the other pieces
of what you're working on."

00:25:04.656 --> 00:25:08.646
And that's exactly what took place
with some of these investigations,

00:25:08.646 --> 00:25:10.252
these agents, while I was there.

00:25:10.252 --> 00:25:14.284
Because I was the central person,
they started connecting the dots.

00:25:14.284 --> 00:25:17.732
So I'll leave it here before I make
things more complicated.

00:25:17.982 --> 00:25:21.046
All right. Well, let's focus on...

00:25:22.176 --> 00:25:24.944
the national aspect of this.

00:25:24.944 --> 00:25:27.383
Of course, you were looking specifically
at Turkic,

00:25:27.383 --> 00:25:30.047
Turkish diplomatic targets of the FBI,

00:25:30.047 --> 00:25:31.857
and that was related to some of this.

00:25:31.857 --> 00:25:34.638
But you mentioned that al-Qadi
had an Albanian passport.

00:25:34.638 --> 00:25:36.429
Is that particularly relevant?

00:25:36.429 --> 00:25:38.096
Uh, <i>yes</i>. It is.

00:25:38.096 --> 00:25:40.414
Because -- <i>absolutely</i>.

00:25:40.414 --> 00:25:43.565
Because... same whether it's
Abdullah Çatlı,

00:25:43.565 --> 00:25:45.361
whether it's al-Qadi,

00:25:45.361 --> 00:25:50.492
whether it was some of these
other Turkey... Turkish <i>NATO operatives</i>

00:25:50.492 --> 00:25:54.280
that we were monitoring within the FBI.

00:25:55.280 --> 00:25:58.298
In... between early 1990s

00:25:58.298 --> 00:26:00.774
till about 1996, '97,

00:26:00.774 --> 00:26:05.367
the biggest focus of these operatives
was on the Balkans.

00:26:05.367 --> 00:26:07.664
And we know what was happening
during this time:

00:26:07.664 --> 00:26:09.572
we had Bosnia, we had Kosovo.

00:26:09.572 --> 00:26:13.906
I mean, this was when these
<i>mujahideen</i>s were being mysteriously...

00:26:13.906 --> 00:26:15.919
-- nobody ever gets into the details --

00:26:15.919 --> 00:26:18.457
they cross the borders and
they end up in the Balkans.

00:26:18.457 --> 00:26:20.391
How do they end up in the Balkans?

00:26:20.391 --> 00:26:23.722
Coming from Pakistan, Egypt,

00:26:23.722 --> 00:26:27.025
Saudi Arabia, via Turkey

00:26:27.025 --> 00:26:29.764
into this region and fighting.

00:26:29.764 --> 00:26:32.583
So... and this was...

00:26:32.583 --> 00:26:34.638
when I say they are all connected,

00:26:34.638 --> 00:26:36.765
Abdullah Çatlı and Qadi,

00:26:36.765 --> 00:26:39.220
well, a lot of the focus

00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:42.651
during that early portion of mid-1990s

00:26:42.651 --> 00:26:44.688
<i>was</i> on the Balkans.

00:26:44.688 --> 00:26:46.933
And this was when these individuals

00:26:46.933 --> 00:26:50.237
<i>were</i> going to that region
and coming back,

00:26:50.237 --> 00:26:53.894
and the networks were <i>bringing</i>
these <i>mujahideens</i>

00:26:53.894 --> 00:26:56.896
-- not al-Qaeda, they were
not called al-Qaeda --

00:26:56.906 --> 00:26:59.295
from those regions into...

00:26:59.295 --> 00:27:02.940
And if you look at...
later, to Fethullah Gülen,

00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:04.752
and <i>madrasas</i> and mosques by him,

00:27:04.752 --> 00:27:08.837
again, you will see Fethullah Gülen
<i>all over</i> this region.

00:27:08.837 --> 00:27:10.403
Same thing.

00:27:10.403 --> 00:27:12.386
And another interesting aspect is,

00:27:12.386 --> 00:27:14.670
this is the period of time where

00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:18.906
a lot of Albanians poured
into the United States.

00:27:19.436 --> 00:27:24.142
And this was when they started
really establishing themselves

00:27:24.142 --> 00:27:27.374
as the most ferocious

00:27:27.374 --> 00:27:31.946
and strongest mafias in
the United States.

00:27:32.136 --> 00:27:35.589
And again, a lot of <i>their</i> activities

00:27:35.589 --> 00:27:37.648
were centered in
-- where? --

00:27:37.648 --> 00:27:39.463
Chicago.

00:27:39.463 --> 00:27:44.830
Because the network that brought
the heroin to Europe,

00:27:44.830 --> 00:27:46.827
it was Turkish-Albanian network.

00:27:46.827 --> 00:27:49.139
So this is...
once it comes out of Turkey,

00:27:49.139 --> 00:27:52.453
it goes into the Balkans; it goes through
Brussels; it goes to Egypt; but then

00:27:52.453 --> 00:27:56.244
it comes to the United States. United
States is a <i>huge</i> market for heroin.

00:27:56.244 --> 00:27:59.435
And if you look at this particular period,

00:27:59.435 --> 00:28:02.327
you would see the top mafia operators

00:28:02.327 --> 00:28:04.319
in the United States were Albanians.

00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:05.861
And this was when Italians said,

00:28:05.861 --> 00:28:10.358
"Well, even we don't -- or won't --
mess with these Albanians."

00:28:10.358 --> 00:28:12.677
Well, who are these Albanians, exactly?

00:28:12.677 --> 00:28:14.685
And how were they able to bring...

00:28:14.685 --> 00:28:17.112
and how come every time we...

00:28:17.112 --> 00:28:20.442
-- the FBI, together and sometimes
jointly with DEA --

00:28:20.442 --> 00:28:22.026
there would be an operation,

00:28:22.256 --> 00:28:24.764
they would go completely untouched?

00:28:25.694 --> 00:28:27.152
Untouched, whether...

00:28:27.152 --> 00:28:31.102
when the actors involved were Turkish,
or they were Albanians.

00:28:31.102 --> 00:28:34.546
Now, with Turkish actors,
we had several incidents

00:28:34.546 --> 00:28:36.109
while I was in the FBI.

00:28:36.109 --> 00:28:39.124
There would be a joint sting operation,

00:28:39.534 --> 00:28:43.847
They're gonna have a bust: and this is
FBI and DEA, joint operations.

00:28:43.847 --> 00:28:46.286
They know the location,
they know the actors,

00:28:46.286 --> 00:28:48.686
and 9:30 AM, they're gonna be there.

00:28:48.686 --> 00:28:50.497
They're gonna bust these guys, right?

00:28:50.497 --> 00:28:52.769
They get into their SUVs and the vans

00:28:52.769 --> 00:28:56.373
-- and this includes my agents,
some of the agents <i>I</i> work with --

00:28:57.143 --> 00:28:59.327
they're gonna meet their DEA counterparts

00:28:59.327 --> 00:29:01.369
and make the bust, right?

00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:03.424
15 minutes before the bust,

00:29:03.424 --> 00:29:04.773
while they are on the way,

00:29:04.773 --> 00:29:08.672
they get a call from the top tier,
top layer in the FBI

00:29:08.672 --> 00:29:10.171
saying, "Operation finished."

00:29:10.171 --> 00:29:13.320
"Over.
Come back to the office,"

00:29:13.320 --> 00:29:15.177
"and get the DEA's guys off this."

00:29:16.447 --> 00:29:20.309
And the agents would be absolutely <i>livid</i>,

00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:23.261
saying, "What!" and "Why?"

00:29:23.261 --> 00:29:28.711
"Well, it's because the State Department
told us they have diplomatic immunities,"

00:29:28.711 --> 00:29:31.016
"and it will be a diplomatic incident."

00:29:31.456 --> 00:29:34.935
Now, the first question people
should ask is:

00:29:34.935 --> 00:29:37.515
how in the world did the CIA

00:29:37.515 --> 00:29:39.375
and the State Department in each case,

00:29:39.375 --> 00:29:43.958
how did they find out about the fact
that we were monitoring them

00:29:43.958 --> 00:29:46.195
and there would be a
sting operation, right?

00:29:46.195 --> 00:29:48.601
And this is, again, another topic

00:29:48.601 --> 00:29:50.204
that is not really talked about,

00:29:50.204 --> 00:29:52.267
and that is Colleen Rowley.

00:29:52.267 --> 00:29:55.541
And one of the things, maybe,
we will do for this video:

00:29:55.541 --> 00:29:58.107
I will find that interview...

00:29:58.107 --> 00:29:59.695
-- or, the article --

00:29:59.695 --> 00:30:01.536
where Colleen Rowley came and said,

00:30:01.536 --> 00:30:06.601
"I'm not joking: I believe, in FBI,
there were so many moles;"

00:30:06.601 --> 00:30:10.622
"and some of these moles were
<i>al-Qaeda-related</i> moles:"

00:30:10.622 --> 00:30:14.536
"because that's the <i>only explanation</i>
I have been able to come up with."

00:30:14.536 --> 00:30:16.452
And this is Colleen Rowley's, OK?

00:30:16.452 --> 00:30:19.083
-- senior FBI, currently retired --

00:30:19.083 --> 00:30:20.350
<i>her</i> quote.

00:30:20.790 --> 00:30:23.888
Well, that was the thing:
we had the moles;

00:30:23.888 --> 00:30:28.460
and people immediately assumed
they would be Russian moles...

00:30:28.460 --> 00:30:31.726
I mean, even with this Jan Dickerson
case: Turkish moles?

00:30:31.726 --> 00:30:34.649
These are the moles who work
for foreign governments.

00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:37.320
That's not... that was not the case.

00:30:37.320 --> 00:30:40.164
Or in <i>these</i> cases, that was not the case.

00:30:40.164 --> 00:30:43.029
Because in <i>these</i> cases, we had moles

00:30:43.029 --> 00:30:45.236
-- whether within the management,
within the...

00:30:45.236 --> 00:30:48.965
whether within the headquarters,
or within the translation divisions --

00:30:48.965 --> 00:30:51.216
that were placed there strategically

00:30:51.216 --> 00:30:53.318
by the State Department and the CIA.

00:30:53.318 --> 00:30:57.543
CIA wanted to know at any given
moment what FBI was doing,

00:30:57.543 --> 00:31:00.461
how much they had, and what they
were planning to do.

00:31:01.011 --> 00:31:02.008
On the other hand,

00:31:02.008 --> 00:31:03.764
if you look the other way and say,

00:31:03.764 --> 00:31:07.274
"How many people from the FBI
had penetrated the CIA?"

00:31:07.274 --> 00:31:10.043
you would get this:
Zilch. Zero.

00:31:10.043 --> 00:31:12.784
So, right: there's a sting operation --

00:31:13.314 --> 00:31:17.532
-- maybe maximum of six, seven,
ten people know about this --

00:31:17.532 --> 00:31:20.821
and the top-layer guy in the FBI says,

00:31:20.821 --> 00:31:22.888
"You're coming back to the headquarters."

00:31:22.888 --> 00:31:25.190
"We are calling off the operations.
They have..."

00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:27.074
-- the targets that you're
about to bust --

00:31:27.074 --> 00:31:30.283
"they have diplomatic immunities."
"Who said that?" "State Department."

00:31:30.283 --> 00:31:32.515
"How does State Department know?"

00:31:32.515 --> 00:31:36.152
There is nothing there.
No explanation on that.

00:31:38.242 --> 00:31:40.565
How many DEA agents know about this?

00:31:40.565 --> 00:31:43.549
I would say at least a dozen of DEA
agents today

00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:47.108
would tell you about several incidents
where the State Department, CIA

00:31:47.108 --> 00:31:49.011
would come and prevent their operations,

00:31:49.011 --> 00:31:51.468
when they would get close in the
sting operations.

00:31:52.101 --> 00:31:53.815
They would tell me about cases

00:31:53.815 --> 00:31:55.515
where the CIA, State Department,

00:31:55.515 --> 00:31:59.048
would actually go <i>tip off the targets</i>

00:31:59.048 --> 00:32:02.195
that the DEA was after, or the FBI.

00:32:02.415 --> 00:32:04.057
There are dozens of cases:

00:32:04.057 --> 00:32:06.470
not only within the Turkish department,
but in...

00:32:06.470 --> 00:32:10.316
-- and I do have many DEA,
former DEA agents --

00:32:10.316 --> 00:32:12.229
it's a norm. It would...

00:32:12.229 --> 00:32:15.303
if you were to ask senior DEA agents,

00:32:15.303 --> 00:32:19.013
the biggest enemies you have
in doing your job

00:32:19.135 --> 00:32:22.964
-- preventing you from going
after the big guys or doing real busts;

00:32:22.964 --> 00:32:25.294
I'm not talking about street-level
drug dealers --

00:32:25.294 --> 00:32:28.396
they would tell you,
"Yeah, State Department; a.k.a. CIA."

00:32:29.415 --> 00:32:31.170
I can <i>guarantee</i> you that.

00:32:31.170 --> 00:32:34.108
And same thing was the case
with the FBI.

00:32:34.108 --> 00:32:40.030
So basically, that was what was
happening with...

00:32:40.030 --> 00:32:41.403
whether it was narcotics...

00:32:41.403 --> 00:32:43.475
when I all along kept saying...

00:32:43.475 --> 00:32:46.928
Look, as a whistleblower, they try
to portray you

00:32:46.928 --> 00:32:50.000
as someone who has... who's disgruntled.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.203
And you're going after your bosses

00:32:52.203 --> 00:32:55.873
who fired you or didn't promote you.

00:32:55.873 --> 00:32:57.491
If you look at my case

00:32:57.491 --> 00:32:59.228
-- I mean, in the book, you will see

00:32:59.228 --> 00:33:02.542
some stupid little bureaucrat
like Mike Feghali --

00:33:02.542 --> 00:33:04.656
and my answer is saying
he was a nobody.

00:33:04.656 --> 00:33:07.964
He was a little guy with some
bureaucratic psychosis, OK?

00:33:08.764 --> 00:33:13.030
I kept saying that the people who
came with the state secrets privilege,

00:33:13.030 --> 00:33:15.191
-- the people who prevented
our investigations --

00:33:15.191 --> 00:33:18.052
were State Department, CIA.
State Department, CIA:

00:33:18.052 --> 00:33:20.051
well, <i>they</i> didn't fire me!

00:33:20.051 --> 00:33:22.547
If you look at some of
the individuals' names

00:33:22.547 --> 00:33:24.369
that kept coming out during my case...

00:33:24.369 --> 00:33:27.342
-- Marc Grossman: well, what did
Marc Grossman do to me?

00:33:27.342 --> 00:33:30.245
I have never met this guy face-to-face.

00:33:30.245 --> 00:33:32.891
And you would think, why would somebody...

00:33:32.891 --> 00:33:37.310
-- he didn't fire me; he didn't demote
me; he didn't have anything to do

00:33:37.310 --> 00:33:41.809
with all the torture I was put through
in the FBI before I was fired --

00:33:41.809 --> 00:33:43.988
why in the world I would name people

00:33:43.988 --> 00:33:47.416
like Dennis Hastert or Marc Grossman?

00:33:47.416 --> 00:33:50.501
Yet if I want to go and get revenge

00:33:50.501 --> 00:33:54.086
-- or if I'm after revenge
or I'm disgruntled --

00:33:54.086 --> 00:33:57.123
I'll be going after the guys
like Muellers, and...

00:33:57.123 --> 00:33:59.966
or, even beneath them, Feghali.

00:33:59.966 --> 00:34:03.183
But all along I've been saying, with 9/11

00:34:03.183 --> 00:34:05.981
-- before, after, during --

00:34:05.981 --> 00:34:07.614
we were the FBI.

00:34:07.614 --> 00:34:11.898
I know FBI does a lot of bad things now
with civil liberties-related issues.

00:34:11.898 --> 00:34:14.229
But when it comes to terrorism
and criminal stuff,

00:34:14.229 --> 00:34:16.642
it was always the State Department
and the CIA.

00:34:17.172 --> 00:34:20.059
You were putting a lot on the line by

00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:23.110
even bringing up these people
and doing this.

00:34:23.110 --> 00:34:27.732
So for people who are on
the outside of this looking in,

00:34:27.732 --> 00:34:30.414
what are the ways that they can start

00:34:30.414 --> 00:34:32.857
to put some of these pieces together

00:34:32.857 --> 00:34:34.924
from the sources that are
already out there?

00:34:34.924 --> 00:34:37.138
Because a lot of these pieces
<i>are</i> on the table

00:34:37.148 --> 00:34:39.354
and all they need to do is
to be put together.

00:34:39.354 --> 00:34:42.119
So how do we start linking names
like this from the outside

00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.764
with the publicly-available information
that we have?

00:34:44.764 --> 00:34:47.603
As you said, with research.

00:34:47.603 --> 00:34:50.066
For example, one of the things
I tried to do...

00:34:50.066 --> 00:34:51.964
that's how we actually ended up

00:34:51.964 --> 00:34:56.153
organizing ourselves as National
Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

00:34:56.153 --> 00:34:58.629
What brought us together was,

00:34:58.629 --> 00:35:00.724
I took that [9/11] commissioners' report.

00:35:00.724 --> 00:35:05.183
And I said, "This is <i>bull!</i> "

00:35:05.783 --> 00:35:09.350
And so many facts had been
intentionally omitted,

00:35:09.350 --> 00:35:10.916
the ones that were given to them.

00:35:10.916 --> 00:35:13.491
Or people were prevented by
the Commission themselves:

00:35:13.491 --> 00:35:16.200
"Don't give us this fact. We are not
gonna interview you."

00:35:16.200 --> 00:35:20.278
<i>Time Magazine</i>'s Woman of the Year,
Colleen Rowley, right?

00:35:20.278 --> 00:35:23.485
With Moussaoui, Zacarias Moussaoui
case:

00:35:23.485 --> 00:35:27.182
2002, she became well-known.

00:35:27.182 --> 00:35:30.830
Well, this was even before
9/11 Commission had <i>started</i>.

00:35:30.830 --> 00:35:33.671
9/11 Commission didn't interview
Colleen Rowley.

00:35:33.671 --> 00:35:36.003
They said they were not going to
interview her.

00:35:36.233 --> 00:35:39.453
And, as you said, Robert Wright;
John Vincent.

00:35:39.453 --> 00:35:41.093
So what I did was:

00:35:41.093 --> 00:35:44.145
during my own case, I started meeting

00:35:44.145 --> 00:35:46.054
and coming across these high-level

00:35:46.054 --> 00:35:48.971
-- not like me, I was just a language
specialist in the FBI

00:35:48.971 --> 00:35:50.781
for six, seven months --

00:35:51.011 --> 00:35:54.857
these were the people with the FBI
for 25 years, 20 years:

00:35:54.857 --> 00:35:57.673
high-level agents, <i>senior</i> agents,

00:35:57.673 --> 00:36:00.292
whether it's DEA or the FBI.

00:36:00.292 --> 00:36:05.677
Well, initially it was
10, 11, 12, 13 of us,

00:36:05.677 --> 00:36:10.207
and before long there were like 70,
65-70 of us.

00:36:10.517 --> 00:36:14.920
I said, "I'm going to go, I'm gonna say
there is a press conference."

00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:16.755
"I'm gonna throw this in the trash can."

00:36:16.755 --> 00:36:20.643
And I'm gonna tell the media that
I went to them; I took them documents;

00:36:20.653 --> 00:36:25.098
I took them specific file information;
I took them names of witnesses

00:36:25.098 --> 00:36:27.330
including informants, because
they have clearance

00:36:27.330 --> 00:36:29.926
-- and these are the 9/11
Commission investigators,

00:36:29.926 --> 00:36:31.702
they all had Top Secret clearance --

00:36:31.702 --> 00:36:34.641
meaning that was when, inside a SCIF,

00:36:34.641 --> 00:36:36.774
I could give them detailed information.

00:36:36.774 --> 00:36:39.542
I would never, right now, talk about
some informant's name.

00:36:39.542 --> 00:36:41.041
That would be nefarious,

00:36:41.041 --> 00:36:44.834
Even if that person is a scumbag,
I'm gonna cause his death, or her death:

00:36:44.834 --> 00:36:45.885
I'm not gonna do that.

00:36:45.885 --> 00:36:50.330
I did it with 9/11 Commissioners,
because I went inside the SCIF;

00:36:50.330 --> 00:36:53.296
and the protocol says,
"Look, they have clearance."

00:36:53.296 --> 00:36:55.470
I can even give them the phone number,

00:36:55.470 --> 00:36:58.435
the address of the informants
and everything.

00:36:58.435 --> 00:37:02.237
So I did. It's not here;
it says, "deferred to the IG."

00:37:02.237 --> 00:37:04.981
IG investigation was <i>already</i>
completely classified.

00:37:05.861 --> 00:37:07.546
Well, all these agents joined me.

00:37:07.546 --> 00:37:09.715
They said, "We want to do the
same thing."

00:37:09.715 --> 00:37:11.648
So during that press conference

00:37:11.648 --> 00:37:14.315
they all came and they stood
right next to me

00:37:14.315 --> 00:37:16.096
and they did the same thing.

00:37:16.096 --> 00:37:17.725
These are the senior agents:

00:37:17.725 --> 00:37:21.299
FBI, DEA, Pentagon.

00:37:22.589 --> 00:37:26.528
So that's... and I released the report

00:37:26.528 --> 00:37:28.202
-- people can go and research --

00:37:28.202 --> 00:37:30.791
and it lists their names. Whether...

00:37:30.791 --> 00:37:33.157
there's Tony Shaffer with Able Danger

00:37:33.157 --> 00:37:35.184
that nobody has an answer to this day;

00:37:35.184 --> 00:37:38.383
whether it's John Vincent
and Agent Wright;

00:37:38.383 --> 00:37:40.339
whether it's Colleen Rowley:

00:37:40.339 --> 00:37:41.772
they're all on that list.

00:37:41.772 --> 00:37:43.245
People who came and said,

00:37:43.245 --> 00:37:47.115
"It's a huge cover-up. All this
information has been omitted."

00:37:47.115 --> 00:37:52.070
And this information <i>includes</i> moles
in the FBI

00:37:52.070 --> 00:37:54.168
from the CIA and the State Department.

00:37:54.168 --> 00:37:58.204
It <i>includes</i> the terabytes of data
being destroyed.

00:37:58.204 --> 00:38:00.564
It... and these people would testify
under oath.

00:38:00.564 --> 00:38:02.618
As I said, these are not disgrunt--...

00:38:02.618 --> 00:38:06.760
Agent Vincent: he <i>retired</i> from the FBI.

00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.888
Nobody fired him. So nobody can come
and accuse this guy of,

00:38:09.888 --> 00:38:13.252
"He's disgruntled because he's saying
that," or, "He's a whack-job."

00:38:13.252 --> 00:38:14.673
Well, he's highly-decorated.

00:38:14.673 --> 00:38:17.887
If he's a whack-job and you
decorated him highly,

00:38:17.887 --> 00:38:20.804
there's something really wrong
with you. (laughs)

00:38:21.054 --> 00:38:22.300
So, it's out there.

00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:23.878
They can go, they can see.

00:38:23.878 --> 00:38:26.167
And a lot of these cases include...

00:38:26.167 --> 00:38:30.051
<i>not</i> "the lack of imagination."

00:38:30.051 --> 00:38:32.179
(laughs)
-- that's what they said --

00:38:32.179 --> 00:38:35.446
Or, "they couldn't connect the dots."

00:38:35.446 --> 00:38:39.628
Or, "there were these walls and the
information was not being sh--";

00:38:39.628 --> 00:38:43.535
"It was all bureaucratic incompetence,
bungling."

00:38:43.815 --> 00:38:46.933
Did we have tons of bureaucratic bungling?

00:38:46.933 --> 00:38:48.070
Oh, yeah!

00:38:48.070 --> 00:38:51.681
Did any of these have <i>anything</i> to do
with bureaucratic bungling?

00:38:51.681 --> 00:38:53.761
Oh, no! <i>Absolutely</i> no.

00:38:53.761 --> 00:38:54.931
And they would tell you,

00:38:54.931 --> 00:38:57.986
"Yes, there were State Department,
the CIA."

00:38:58.416 --> 00:39:01.739
And even with the White House, it gets
very interesting;

00:39:01.851 --> 00:39:04.641
because I know "the evil Bush"
we talk about a lot.

00:39:04.641 --> 00:39:06.409
A lot of these...

00:39:06.859 --> 00:39:10.356
-- that includes Agent Wright's case,
John Vincent's case --

00:39:10.546 --> 00:39:13.525
took place in late 1990s, mid-1990s.

00:39:13.525 --> 00:39:17.372
So you're looking at the Clinton
administration <i>and</i> Bush administration.

00:39:17.372 --> 00:39:20.602
You're looking at a Democrat,
and you're looking at a Republican.

00:39:20.882 --> 00:39:23.794
And so, it's not partisan.

00:39:24.334 --> 00:39:29.766
It doesn't go only through two evils,
Cheney and Bush. It...

00:39:31.628 --> 00:39:35.864
And this is very important
to talk about briefly here.

00:39:35.864 --> 00:39:37.328
When I'm talking about this...

00:39:37.328 --> 00:39:42.591
-- Gladio Plan B, these cases, Clinton,
Bush administration --

00:39:42.591 --> 00:39:44.929
one of the biggest reasons I believe

00:39:44.929 --> 00:39:47.651
a lot of people don't get it, and don't
<i>want</i> to get it...

00:39:47.651 --> 00:39:53.391
-- and this is in the United States; with
most of our foreign viewers, that doesn't

00:39:53.391 --> 00:39:57.772
seem to be the case as much; but
especially with the United States --

00:39:57.772 --> 00:40:02.366
is, we are conditioned to look at things

00:40:02.366 --> 00:40:08.540
as very classic "black hat guys,
and the guys in white hats."

00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:15.381
Now, you get these guys in black hats
versus other guys in black hats?

00:40:15.391 --> 00:40:18.278
It just doesn't go through.

00:40:18.278 --> 00:40:22.501
It just... this automatic wall comes up,
and they're like,

00:40:22.501 --> 00:40:25.568
"Uh, well, because... what the Russians
are doing is really bad;"

00:40:25.568 --> 00:40:27.999
"And here's what Israel is doing,
and it's really bad;"

00:40:27.999 --> 00:40:30.644
"And here's US. Here are these... the
State Department?"

00:40:30.644 --> 00:40:33.946
"Democrats? Republicans? Clinton? Bush?"

00:40:33.946 --> 00:40:34.874
"<i>No!</i>"

00:40:34.874 --> 00:40:39.463
That doesn't fit our paradigm.
Because we have to say,

00:40:39.463 --> 00:40:43.335
"PNAC, Bush and Cheney, versus
the good Democrats,"

00:40:43.335 --> 00:40:46.756
"and they were the ones that did...
-- now, <i>that's</i> simple. That's easy."

00:40:46.756 --> 00:40:51.342
"I can go for that. I can <i>really</i> put
my support behind that."

00:40:52.562 --> 00:40:54.991
Including, like what you were
talking about with...

00:40:54.991 --> 00:40:56.392
and this is Common Cause,

00:40:56.392 --> 00:40:59.526
the NGO that was set up here,

00:40:59.526 --> 00:41:01.673
the website during the
Bush administration.

00:41:01.673 --> 00:41:03.107
It was Soros-funded.

00:41:03.107 --> 00:41:06.150
It becomes very easy. And it's like,

00:41:06.150 --> 00:41:07.784
"Give me the black hat guys"

00:41:07.784 --> 00:41:09.467
"and tell me these are the white,"

00:41:09.467 --> 00:41:11.011
"and I can follow you."

00:41:11.231 --> 00:41:12.230
If you come

00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.820
-- whether you're Sibel Edmonds
or if you're Colleen Rowley --

00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:15.884
and you say,

00:41:15.884 --> 00:41:17.886
"Yeah, but it involved this
administration,"

00:41:17.886 --> 00:41:19.771
"this administration, this
administration;"

00:41:19.771 --> 00:41:24.132
"Democrats and Republicans;
Allies and non-allies,"

00:41:24.922 --> 00:41:26.905
then I'm gonna say it's crazy.

00:41:26.905 --> 00:41:30.120
Then I'm gonna say it doesn't make
sense to me.

00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:32.256
And it's <i>always</i> been this way.

00:41:32.256 --> 00:41:35.539
And you have covered in your program

00:41:35.539 --> 00:41:38.068
these episodes on education:

00:41:38.068 --> 00:41:40.695
it is framed that way from the
beginning for us.

00:41:40.695 --> 00:41:42.801
I mean, even with the test-taking.

00:41:42.801 --> 00:41:45.499
One quick example would be,

00:41:45.499 --> 00:41:48.376
Watergate incident and what
happened with Nixon.

00:41:48.376 --> 00:41:50.869
There is this classic narrative.

00:41:50.869 --> 00:41:52.820
And we have some good guys,

00:41:52.820 --> 00:41:55.725
we have guys that we believe
they have white hats.

00:41:55.725 --> 00:42:00.449
I mean, Bob Woodward was there,
<i>Washington Post:</i> they were fantastic.

00:42:00.449 --> 00:42:02.533
They carried a lot of these.

00:42:02.533 --> 00:42:04.751
It makes it very sexy;

00:42:04.751 --> 00:42:06.467
it makes it very Hollywood-ish.

00:42:06.467 --> 00:42:09.695
Imagine a Hollywood movie when you
don't have guys with white hats?

00:42:09.695 --> 00:42:11.574
They're all black hat guys?

00:42:11.574 --> 00:42:14.649
So, you want to give a test?
This is the classic you give them.

00:42:14.649 --> 00:42:16.181
And there's one answer.

00:42:16.181 --> 00:42:17.774
Because with those tests,

00:42:17.774 --> 00:42:19.393
and multiple-options tests,

00:42:19.393 --> 00:42:21.341
they can't say, "This, however..."

00:42:21.341 --> 00:42:23.561
You can't put a "however" or "but."

00:42:24.451 --> 00:42:28.967
You can't start bringing in some
critical-thinking elements and say,

00:42:29.527 --> 00:42:31.862
"All right, now, it's interesting: "

00:42:31.862 --> 00:42:34.106
"because look at <i>Washington Post</i> "

00:42:34.106 --> 00:42:37.688
"before Watergate and long
after Watergate: "

00:42:37.688 --> 00:42:40.234
"why there was such an
aberration there?"

00:42:41.324 --> 00:42:43.179
What has -- really --
Bob Woodward done?

00:42:43.179 --> 00:42:47.606
He's been the mouthpiece of White
Houses from Bush to Obama

00:42:48.156 --> 00:42:50.586
and he has millions of dollars.

00:42:50.586 --> 00:42:55.111
I went to his house in Georgetown:
he was one of the first reporters I...

00:42:55.111 --> 00:42:58.632
I got introduced to during my case:
before, even, my case came out.

00:42:59.082 --> 00:43:02.342
His kids are going to private schools:
<i>he is the system.</i>

00:43:02.342 --> 00:43:04.995
He is the CIA's <i>darling</i>, OK?

00:43:05.505 --> 00:43:09.118
And, <i>Washington Post</i> :
Iran-Contra, what did they do?

00:43:09.219 --> 00:43:11.853
They had their opportun-- ...

00:43:11.853 --> 00:43:14.226
if it was was the <i>Washington Post</i>
and reporters,

00:43:14.226 --> 00:43:16.567
it happened during this time with
Watergate.

00:43:16.567 --> 00:43:19.105
It didn't happen before;
it didn't happen after.

00:43:19.105 --> 00:43:22.415
You see... because the classic way is,

00:43:22.415 --> 00:43:25.125
you get people like Gary Webb
and Iran-Contra.

00:43:25.125 --> 00:43:28.546
If you're a good reporter, you do your
job, that's what happens to you.

00:43:28.546 --> 00:43:32.293
Not become a multimillionaire
scumbag Bob Woodward.

00:43:32.923 --> 00:43:36.177
And then, looking at it this way

00:43:36.177 --> 00:43:37.290
-- from this angle --

00:43:37.290 --> 00:43:38.545
that makes you think and say,

00:43:38.545 --> 00:43:40.818
"Really, let's look at Watergate."

00:43:40.818 --> 00:43:44.803
And based on some of the documents
that have been, already, public;

00:43:44.803 --> 00:43:47.109
based on some people who
have already talked:

00:43:47.109 --> 00:43:49.933
Is it what they tell us it was about?

00:43:49.933 --> 00:43:52.198
Was it true that there were
some elements

00:43:52.198 --> 00:43:54.633
saying they wanted to see Nixon gone?

00:43:54.633 --> 00:43:55.680
OK, they really...

00:43:55.680 --> 00:43:58.744
Well, they wanted to get caught, at any
rate. I think that much is apparent from

00:43:58.744 --> 00:44:02.532
...or someone in that operation wanted
to get caught, at some point.

00:44:02.532 --> 00:44:06.748
And absolutely, they were handed
that story on a golden platter.

00:44:06.748 --> 00:44:10.271
Unfortunately, we're running out of time;
and we've lost your video feed,

00:44:10.271 --> 00:44:12.703
unfortunately, for those watching
the video of this.

00:44:12.703 --> 00:44:16.360
So I hope you people will put up
with the frozen image.

00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:17.919
But Sibel, let's...

00:44:17.919 --> 00:44:21.630
in the final few minutes we have here
with you today, why don't we get to some

00:44:21.630 --> 00:44:24.824
of the questions and comments that
came in from our last conversation?

00:44:24.824 --> 00:44:27.168
We've had a lot of feedback from
people about it,

00:44:27.168 --> 00:44:30.679
and I want to address some of these
people's questions and concerns.

00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.151
For example, we had...

00:44:32.151 --> 00:44:34.138
from someone called Errol E.:

00:44:34.138 --> 00:44:38.850
he wrote in to take issue with some
of the things

00:44:38.850 --> 00:44:41.664
that we brought up in the
last conversation,

00:44:41.664 --> 00:44:43.991
including his contention that the idea

00:44:43.991 --> 00:44:48.469
to implement the Islamist cults as actors
of Gladio did not come up

00:44:48.469 --> 00:44:51.514
<i>after</i> the Susurluk scandal, but was
long prepared beforehand.

00:44:52.014 --> 00:44:54.451
And I was wondering if you could
address that idea:

00:44:55.131 --> 00:44:57.717
is there something <i>to</i> the fact that this
was something

00:44:57.717 --> 00:45:00.301
that had already been in existence
before Susurluk?

00:45:00.301 --> 00:45:04.925
And if so, then what was, really, the
changing incident there?

00:45:04.925 --> 00:45:06.161
What really took place?

00:45:06.581 --> 00:45:11.080
Of course! I mean, first you can start
with 1980s in Afghanistan,

00:45:11.080 --> 00:45:15.556
With <i>mujahideens</i> and our partnership
with al-Qaeda...-- not al-Qaeda, actually:

00:45:15.556 --> 00:45:17.616
because there's no such thing,
"al-Qaeda" --

00:45:17.616 --> 00:45:19.627
with <i>mujahideen</i> and Bin Laden,
back then.

00:45:19.627 --> 00:45:22.591
Then you're looking at all the
religious cults

00:45:22.591 --> 00:45:24.620
-- even in Iran, OK?

00:45:24.620 --> 00:45:25.952
That's another thing,

00:45:25.952 --> 00:45:27.882
and that is for another program.

00:45:27.882 --> 00:45:31.442
People, they say, "OK, Iran,
Islamic Revolution,"

00:45:31.442 --> 00:45:33.573
but it's so much more into...

00:45:33.573 --> 00:45:36.777
I was there;
my father was right in the thick of it.

00:45:37.218 --> 00:45:39.028
It's not the story presented here.

00:45:39.028 --> 00:45:41.330
First of all, there <i>was</i> no
"Islamic Revolution."

00:45:41.330 --> 00:45:42.847
The initial revolution in Iran

00:45:42.847 --> 00:45:44.676
was actually carried out, organized,

00:45:44.676 --> 00:45:47.615
mainly by Social Democrats
and the leftists

00:45:47.615 --> 00:45:48.560
-- the <i>Hezb-e Tudeh</i>.

00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:50.235
But I'm not gonna get into that.

00:45:50.235 --> 00:45:52.264
We have been doing that...

00:45:52.804 --> 00:45:55.489
before us, the United Kingdom,

00:45:55.489 --> 00:45:57.226
the Brits have been doing this.

00:45:57.226 --> 00:46:00.992
This has been a classic approach, using...

00:46:00.992 --> 00:46:03.444
-- and especially by the British Empire --

00:46:03.444 --> 00:46:04.869
using <i>religion.</i>

00:46:05.439 --> 00:46:07.284
So that part of it is not new.

00:46:07.284 --> 00:46:09.337
And even some of these elements

00:46:09.337 --> 00:46:12.274
early on in 1990s, sure.

00:46:12.274 --> 00:46:14.385
But they were not prioritized,

00:46:14.385 --> 00:46:19.635
and they did not become NATO's
-- Gladio's -- adopted new plan.

00:46:19.635 --> 00:46:22.891
That is: were they being used by the
CIA? Yes.

00:46:22.891 --> 00:46:28.494
Were they being used by the British
intelligence agencies? Absolutely.

00:46:28.494 --> 00:46:30.714
But it was not prioritized.

00:46:30.714 --> 00:46:32.923
And again, we have Gladio

00:46:32.923 --> 00:46:35.310
-- and this is <i>specifically</i> Gladio --

00:46:35.310 --> 00:46:40.671
going through the military
and ultranationalist factions.

00:46:40.671 --> 00:46:45.309
It was after Susurluk when
<i>NATO, Gladio</i> adapted.

00:46:45.309 --> 00:46:47.357
Because before that it was...

00:46:47.357 --> 00:46:50.971
they were being implemented,
but <i>not by NATO</i>.

00:46:50.971 --> 00:46:53.359
And it was not part of Gladio's operation.

00:46:53.389 --> 00:46:55.493
It wasn't, <i>absolutely</i> it wasn't.

00:46:55.493 --> 00:46:57.933
<i>That</i> became <i>after</i> Susurluk incident.

00:46:59.313 --> 00:47:01.760
Then we have a question in from John S.

00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:03.847
And he writes:
"When Dickerson and Grossman"

00:47:03.847 --> 00:47:05.901
"were yanked home out of Turkey
following Susurluk,"

00:47:05.901 --> 00:47:09.611
"it may seem very obviously linked to
that scandal, and I'm sure it totally is."

00:47:09.611 --> 00:47:11.530
But how do we know? Or <i>do</i> we know?

00:47:11.530 --> 00:47:14.693
"Again, how much is reasonable
conjecture and logical conclusion,"

00:47:14.693 --> 00:47:18.091
"and how much is something more than
that: information statements, documents,"

00:47:18.091 --> 00:47:19.921
"links to Gladio, et cetera?"

00:47:19.921 --> 00:47:23.056
(Sibel): Sure. And again, part of
this question

00:47:23.056 --> 00:47:26.027
is caused by... partly by the fact

00:47:26.027 --> 00:47:28.938
of all the secrecy and classification.
That's one.

00:47:28.949 --> 00:47:31.844
But then, for people not knowing the
whole picture

00:47:31.844 --> 00:47:35.278
because they haven't looked at this case,
they haven't looked at this book...

00:47:35.278 --> 00:47:40.124
because you start with Grossman
and with Dickerson.

00:47:40.124 --> 00:47:45.160
However, later, they...
-- at least Grossman --

00:47:45.160 --> 00:47:47.741
was part of the FBI's investigations.

00:47:47.741 --> 00:47:51.648
And even though he was, first, number
three guy in the State Department,

00:47:51.648 --> 00:47:53.627
and ended up being number two guy,

00:47:53.627 --> 00:47:56.770
his job actually was with NATO

00:47:56.770 --> 00:47:59.535
and these operations in Central Asia
and Caucasus.

00:47:59.535 --> 00:48:01.111
And they don't know that.

00:48:01.111 --> 00:48:03.881
The other thing that this question

00:48:03.881 --> 00:48:05.692
-- the person who asked the questions --

00:48:05.692 --> 00:48:08.235
is disregarding is...
with Dickersons, though,

00:48:08.235 --> 00:48:10.706
he was sent to NATO, <i>then</i> to the
United States.

00:48:10.706 --> 00:48:12.073
When my case case came out,

00:48:12.073 --> 00:48:14.074
when he was under investigations,

00:48:14.074 --> 00:48:16.318
when the court case was still proceeding

00:48:16.318 --> 00:48:17.329
-- my court case --

00:48:17.329 --> 00:48:19.709
and the Congress was at the beginning,

00:48:19.709 --> 00:48:22.281
initial stage of its investigations:

00:48:23.641 --> 00:48:25.980
even though the judge had banned him,

00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:27.781
Dickerson got on the plane

00:48:27.781 --> 00:48:29.655
and he said he has a new job,

00:48:29.655 --> 00:48:30.588
he's going to NATO.

00:48:30.588 --> 00:48:35.269
So he was sent to NATO Brussels:
he escaped, while under investigation.

00:48:35.269 --> 00:48:37.081
And this was completely supported

00:48:37.081 --> 00:48:39.681
by the Pentagon's Gladio division.

00:48:39.681 --> 00:48:40.629
And then he went

00:48:40.629 --> 00:48:44.490
-- and this would be end of August,
early September 2002 --

00:48:44.490 --> 00:48:46.463
where did he end up? Brussels.

00:48:46.463 --> 00:48:48.495
Where did he end up? NATO Brussels.

00:48:48.495 --> 00:48:50.896
Not only that. One of the things...

00:48:50.896 --> 00:48:55.162
-- again, if they had read my books,
they wouldn't even have this question --

00:48:55.162 --> 00:48:57.593
one of the things that happened is...

00:48:57.593 --> 00:48:59.320
first thing that happened,

00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:03.836
before the FBI was stopped and <i>I</i>
became the target of retaliation,

00:49:03.836 --> 00:49:06.798
there was a damage assessment
on the espionage

00:49:06.798 --> 00:49:09.922
to see how much information
-- intelligence --

00:49:09.922 --> 00:49:13.529
we had lost due to the spies in the FBI.

00:49:14.482 --> 00:49:18.509
How much documents, and
informants' safety, et cetera.

00:49:18.509 --> 00:49:21.932
Well, the top one, two, three, four...

00:49:21.932 --> 00:49:25.413
the top <i>four</i> targets of the FBI within
this period

00:49:26.033 --> 00:49:29.491
-- even though they still had more
official time left

00:49:29.491 --> 00:49:34.217
from their official positions overseas --

00:49:34.217 --> 00:49:37.806
they were removed. And they were
sent... -- not to Turkey:

00:49:37.806 --> 00:49:39.385
they were sent to NATO.

00:49:39.385 --> 00:49:41.414
I would ask them to look at

00:49:41.414 --> 00:49:43.437
this very important guy, for example,

00:49:43.437 --> 00:49:46.762
in Turkish consulate in Chicago

00:49:46.762 --> 00:49:48.304
and Chicago consul.

00:49:48.304 --> 00:49:49.530
Where did he end up?

00:49:49.530 --> 00:49:53.418
Again, he had more left
-- more time left -- in his term.

00:49:53.418 --> 00:49:57.586
However, he was given a very high-level
position in NATO in Brussels.

00:49:57.586 --> 00:50:01.670
So you're looking at criminal top targets
who ended up in NATO

00:50:01.670 --> 00:50:03.872
-- including Dickersons.

00:50:04.712 --> 00:50:09.408
And so, that is not to take one or two
or three incidents

00:50:09.408 --> 00:50:11.444
and say, "These people are there."

00:50:11.444 --> 00:50:13.581
That's one. And the second thing is:

00:50:13.581 --> 00:50:16.452
FBI's operations
-- counterintelligence --

00:50:16.452 --> 00:50:18.283
has <i>already established that</i>.

00:50:18.613 --> 00:50:20.362
<i>I</i> didn't call it Plan B.

00:50:23.482 --> 00:50:26.656
The file that has to do with Grey Wolves

00:50:26.656 --> 00:50:29.356
turned into Gladio Plan B operations.

00:50:29.356 --> 00:50:30.502
And this is why...

00:50:30.502 --> 00:50:35.345
this was the reason these investigations,
operations, had to be stopped

00:50:35.345 --> 00:50:37.354
by the State Department and Pentagon.

00:50:37.354 --> 00:50:41.297
And this was why they didn't want
any of these to proceed in courts.

00:50:41.297 --> 00:50:44.210
Because they didn't want
anyone to know

00:50:44.210 --> 00:50:46.671
that this was the operation...

00:50:46.671 --> 00:50:48.107
they were carrying it out.

00:50:48.107 --> 00:50:50.146
Including their operations together

00:50:50.146 --> 00:50:52.280
with Bin Laden and the <i>mujahideen</i>:

00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.117
part of the NATO operation.

00:50:55.717 --> 00:50:57.850
OK, time for one more quick question.

00:50:57.850 --> 00:50:59.279
We have a question from Emery:

00:50:59.279 --> 00:51:02.878
"How does Sibel consider the
Ergenekon trials in light of Gladio?"

00:51:02.878 --> 00:51:06.599
"What does she make of the claim
that it is a US-backed operation"

00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:08.821
"to replace the secular
nationalist establishment"

00:51:08.821 --> 00:51:11.209
"with a more pliant Islamic
capitalist establishment,"

00:51:11.209 --> 00:51:13.314
"using the Gülen movement?"

00:51:14.234 --> 00:51:17.761
Uh, 100 percent, I believe.

00:51:17.761 --> 00:51:20.921
And anyone who knows and who
understands

00:51:20.921 --> 00:51:24.091
and who is analyzing this objectively
would tell you:

00:51:24.091 --> 00:51:28.697
Ergenekon is completely, 100 percent,
a US plan -- a US-backed plan.

00:51:28.703 --> 00:51:30.879
Look, I will give a very quick example.

00:51:30.879 --> 00:51:35.213
In 1997, this <i>same</i> administration,
Turkish regime,

00:51:35.213 --> 00:51:37.509
the Turkish government, AKP government

00:51:37.509 --> 00:51:41.045
-- which, these are all Gülen's guys:
Erdoğan and Gul;

00:51:41.045 --> 00:51:43.572
the Islamic, current Islamic people --

00:51:43.902 --> 00:51:46.295
<i>they won</i> the election.

00:51:46.295 --> 00:51:49.811
And... in 1997, their party won
the majority,

00:51:49.811 --> 00:51:52.773
both popular and... everything, right?

00:51:52.777 --> 00:51:56.199
However, this was not exactly
during the time

00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:59.295
the United States had <i>switched</i>
from the military secularists.

00:51:59.295 --> 00:52:01.313
So the military in Turkey said,

00:52:01.313 --> 00:52:04.065
"Too bad! They have the majority
of votes,"

00:52:04.065 --> 00:52:07.305
"but we're not gonna let them
get into power."

00:52:07.305 --> 00:52:10.495
So you know what they did, right?
The Turkish military shut down AKP.

00:52:10.495 --> 00:52:12.387
They took Erdoğan; they put him in jail.

00:52:12.387 --> 00:52:14.036
They said, "Vote doesn't matter."

00:52:14.036 --> 00:52:17.890
"If you vote and it's not our guy who gets
the majority, we'll put them in court."

00:52:17.890 --> 00:52:20.881
The military in Turkey can never,
ever, ever do anything...

00:52:20.881 --> 00:52:22.153
-- they can't even pee --

00:52:22.153 --> 00:52:24.776
without the permission from
the United States.

00:52:25.456 --> 00:52:27.555
Same thing... I mean, this is no different

00:52:27.555 --> 00:52:31.228
from the military under... in Egypt
under Mubarak.

00:52:31.378 --> 00:52:34.521
The military regimes we install,
they are not answerable

00:52:34.521 --> 00:52:37.592
to the Presidents or the kings
that we have installed.

00:52:37.592 --> 00:52:41.038
They are answerable to the United
States: as simple as that.

00:52:41.038 --> 00:52:42.747
Same thing with the Iran revolution

00:52:42.747 --> 00:52:45.151
-- and I'm not gonna call it
"Islamic Revolution."

00:52:45.151 --> 00:52:47.893
Shah's military, they all put
their guns down...

00:52:47.893 --> 00:52:50.496
-- and I hate the Shah. He tortured
my father, OK?

00:52:50.496 --> 00:52:53.540
Who told them to put down their guns?

00:52:53.540 --> 00:52:55.473
Suddenly, boom! They put their...

00:52:55.473 --> 00:52:57.788
and they told Shah he was on his own.

00:52:57.788 --> 00:52:59.377
He escaped, and before he died,

00:52:59.377 --> 00:53:02.452
Shah said, "It was the United States'
wish."

00:53:02.452 --> 00:53:05.174
They said to the military,
"Don't support or protect him."

00:53:05.804 --> 00:53:09.169
So, when the United States believe
you're fair game and it's over,

00:53:09.169 --> 00:53:10.280
it's over, babe!

00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:13.751
Now in this case, the military in 1997,
they said,

00:53:13.751 --> 00:53:17.557
"You're not allowed with the green lights
from the United States." What changed?

00:53:17.557 --> 00:53:21.200
Five years later, the same party
-- the same man --

00:53:21.200 --> 00:53:23.127
gets the same number of votes.

00:53:23.127 --> 00:53:26.092
And, lo and behold!
Nobody puts them in jail.

00:53:26.092 --> 00:53:27.296
They get into power.

00:53:27.296 --> 00:53:30.430
And starting within the first two,
three years,

00:53:30.430 --> 00:53:32.063
they start picking the top...

00:53:32.063 --> 00:53:35.188
-- not top <i>military</i> guys.
<i>Military</i> got divided:

00:53:35.188 --> 00:53:40.988
those who were willing to go along with
the US NATO Operation Plan B,

00:53:40.988 --> 00:53:43.375
including this administration;

00:53:43.375 --> 00:53:48.085
<i>and</i> the segment that was still
ultranationalist and secularist.

00:53:48.085 --> 00:53:51.569
And the United States gave the green
light, saying, "Go after them."

00:53:51.859 --> 00:53:54.444
Without the United States giving the
green light

00:53:54.444 --> 00:53:56.467
saying, "Yes, you can do it,"

00:53:56.467 --> 00:53:58.172
no way you would see that!

00:53:58.172 --> 00:54:01.093
And again, what kind of aberration are
we talking about?

00:54:01.093 --> 00:54:05.788
Between 1997 and 2002,
the military got enlightened, and...

00:54:05.808 --> 00:54:08.296
(laughs) and we had a real democracy.

00:54:08.296 --> 00:54:11.769
This time, the ones who got the majority
in fact came into power.

00:54:11.769 --> 00:54:15.323
That's the difference five years make.

00:54:15.323 --> 00:54:18.877
Makes such a huge... (laughs)

00:54:18.877 --> 00:54:23.652
Well, Sibel, I'm afraid time flies when
you're having fun and kicking butt

00:54:23.668 --> 00:54:25.907
-- and we have had a lot of fun today.

00:54:25.907 --> 00:54:28.657
So unfortunately, time is just about up.

00:54:28.657 --> 00:54:30.903
And once again, this is a conversation

00:54:30.903 --> 00:54:34.632
that is not going to end anytime soon, I
think; we have a lot more to discuss.

00:54:34.632 --> 00:54:37.730
But is there any final things that you'd
like to leave people with

00:54:37.730 --> 00:54:40.201
from what we've talked about today?

00:54:40.201 --> 00:54:42.802
Uh, one quick final note.

00:54:42.802 --> 00:54:46.249
And that's... it's so disheartening;
it's very disappointing.

00:54:46.249 --> 00:54:49.022
Because, as I said: in the United States,

00:54:49.022 --> 00:54:51.046
people are so conditioned

00:54:51.046 --> 00:54:54.478
to frame their minds around
this "white hat, black hat."

00:54:54.478 --> 00:54:56.230
And things are set up this way;

00:54:56.230 --> 00:54:58.729
and when things are outside
that paradigm,

00:54:58.729 --> 00:55:01.134
they just cannot <i>absorb</i> it.

00:55:01.134 --> 00:55:03.948
And one of the unfortunate things and
disheartening things

00:55:03.948 --> 00:55:07.100
that I have observed with some of the
comments is... it's...

00:55:07.100 --> 00:55:10.122
and this <i>destroyed</i> the
9/11 Truth Movement.

00:55:10.122 --> 00:55:13.552
There are people who are <i>eating</i>
each other within the movement.

00:55:13.552 --> 00:55:15.466
It's like, "It's LIHOP!" "It's MIHOP!"

00:55:15.466 --> 00:55:17.484
"If it's LIHOP, it can't be MIHOP,"

00:55:17.484 --> 00:55:19.650
or "If it's MIHOP..."
<i>Hop, hop!</i>

00:55:19.652 --> 00:55:22.553
It's... and they get into some semantics,

00:55:22.553 --> 00:55:24.429
and they get into some...

00:55:24.429 --> 00:55:26.743
and they are <i>self-destroying.</i>

00:55:26.743 --> 00:55:31.809
I don't know how much of it is caused by
planted elements,

00:55:31.809 --> 00:55:33.480
to have this division.

00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:37.009
I don't know how much of it is the
natural course of...

00:55:39.860 --> 00:55:42.181
I think it's devolving in some ways.

00:55:42.181 --> 00:55:45.673
But I am attributing a lot of this
with this...

00:55:45.673 --> 00:55:49.866
I guess, decades of
<i>systemic conditioning</i>,

00:55:49.866 --> 00:55:52.956
for people to say,
"This is how you view the world;"

00:55:52.956 --> 00:55:55.715
"this is how you view things; this is how
you answer."

00:55:55.715 --> 00:55:59.124
"Buts" and "howevers," or "this and
also:"

00:55:59.124 --> 00:56:03.813
we don't... we want to get rid of these.
The answer is either A, B, C, D:

00:56:03.813 --> 00:56:06.963
LIHOP; MIHOP; No/Nothing;
Israel...

00:56:06.963 --> 00:56:11.143
And they need to, first, <i>put that away</i>.

00:56:11.143 --> 00:56:16.376
Open it up, take in the entire picture;
critically think about it.

00:56:16.376 --> 00:56:22.564
And if they want to refuse a certain
theory or certain explanation, that's fine.

00:56:23.004 --> 00:56:24.915
But it's very disheartening.

00:56:24.915 --> 00:56:27.383
and I'm hoping that we will get

00:56:27.383 --> 00:56:30.094
more and more people with open minds

00:56:30.094 --> 00:56:32.515
watching this thing and thinking.

00:56:32.515 --> 00:56:35.927
And first, get rid of all the
old conditionings.

00:56:35.927 --> 00:56:37.437
And I know it's hard to do,

00:56:37.437 --> 00:56:40.733
but it's very disheartening -- especially
for some of the journalists

00:56:40.733 --> 00:56:42.601
and people who've been trying
very hard.

00:56:42.601 --> 00:56:46.767
I know many whistleblowers have given
up because they got <i>disgusted</i>:

00:56:46.767 --> 00:56:53.410
of being attacked, and their major
revelations being completely obscured

00:56:53.410 --> 00:56:56.397
by some <i>stupid</i>
-- excuse my language --

00:56:56.397 --> 00:56:59.279
<i>really idiotic</i> semantics and details.

00:56:59.279 --> 00:57:04.100
And so, again, I encourage people
to put everything aside.

00:57:04.100 --> 00:57:05.950
Absorb, and do your own research.

00:57:05.951 --> 00:57:09.775
Because there's <i>plenty</i> out there
to see with this regard,

00:57:09.775 --> 00:57:11.835
with what we are discussing today.

00:57:11.835 --> 00:57:13.964
And that would be it for me for this
evening.

00:57:13.964 --> 00:57:16.298
Well, I think that's very well-put,

00:57:16.298 --> 00:57:19.196
and it's an apt description
of this conversation we're having.

00:57:19.196 --> 00:57:22.176
Because I hope that this starts
to give people a view

00:57:22.176 --> 00:57:24.274
of the broader, broader, <i>broader</i> picture;

00:57:24.274 --> 00:57:26.015
because this is such a large thing

00:57:26.015 --> 00:57:28.583
that it can't be put into one of those
little boxes

00:57:28.583 --> 00:57:32.755
that, I think, makes it a neat little story
to tie everything together.

00:57:32.755 --> 00:57:35.379
I think there's a <i>lot</i> of different
elements involved here.

00:57:35.379 --> 00:57:38.416
It's a <i>lot</i> more complicated than many
people are giving credit for.

00:57:38.416 --> 00:57:42.149
So I think we're going to have to continue
delving into this, piece by piece.

00:57:42.149 --> 00:57:45.606
So that's going to do it for this
particular version of the conversation.

00:57:45.606 --> 00:57:48.898
Once again, I do appreciate all the
comments and feedback I'm getting in

00:57:48.898 --> 00:57:52.573
via the website; and as we continue this
conversation with Sibel, we will again

00:57:52.573 --> 00:57:56.247
attempt to get to some of your questions
and comments. So keep them coming in,

00:57:56.247 --> 00:57:58.589
and keep spreading the word
about this information,

00:57:58.589 --> 00:58:01.696
but we'll leave it there for now. Sibel Edmonds, BoilingFrogsPost.com:

00:58:01.696 --> 00:58:03.403
thank you, as always, for your time.

00:58:03.403 --> 00:58:04.550
And thank you, James.

00:58:04.550 --> 00:58:07.137
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