James Corbett Gladio Revisited Raw Draft TXT Dump

[MUSIC]

Female Voice [voice-over]: You're
listening to The Corbett Report,

CorbettReport.com.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to another edition of
The Corbett Report.

I'm your host James Corbett
of CorbettReport.com,

podcasting to you as always from
the sunny climes of western Japan

here on this first day of February, 2013.

Welcome to Episode 256 of The Corbett
Report podcast, "Gladio Revisited."

Now, I hope that most of the listeners
in the audience

will understand that "Gladio" in
today's title

refers to Operation Gladio,

a false-flag terror operation that
is commonly understood

to be a NATO stay-behind operation

that was formed in the wake of
World War II

as a bulwark against the possibility

of Soviet invasion in Western Europe.

And it is certainly something
that we have covered

here on the podcast in the past,

for example most notably in Episode 49
of the podcast

back from July of 2008,

in an episode entitled "Paperclip Nazis
and Stay-Behind Gladios."

And it is something we've covered

elsewhere on The Corbett Report besides.

And it is something that is being

increasingly covered
in the alternative media,

and I think that references to
Operation Gladio

are thankfully becoming more common,

because it is an exceptionally
important piece

of the entire War on Terror
paradigm history

that makes sense of much of that history

and puts it into the proper context
of the strategy of tension,

which is the underlying philosophical,

ideological basis for
false-flag terrorism:

why and how that entire idea operates.

So it is vitally important that people

come to an understanding
of Operation Gladio

and the admitted history
of this operation.

And it is heartening to see this

being referenced more and more
in the alternative media.

But I fear that there is something
of a dogma coming to surround

what Operation Gladio was and
its place in history

-- emphasis on history --

instead of its understanding
in its proper context and role

as something that is still ongoing today

and still forms the basis of the
War on Terror paradigm

that we are currently living through.

And it is my hope that today
on the podcast

we will at least start exploring

some of the ways in which
Operation Gladio is ongoing

and is still affecting the world
around us.

And we have to understand this vitally
important history to have a proper grasp

of what all of this War on Terror
is really all about.

So in order to start dissecting

the "official" alternative history
of Operation Gladio,

of course, once again it is important
to remember

that now Operation Gladio is now

a completely officially-admitted
operation,

and a lot of the history has been
declassified

and has been put out in various
parliamentary reports

-- most notably, of course,

in its original exposé
in the Italian Parliament.

But there is, as I say, a dogma
forming around it,

a nice short encapsulation of
Operation Gladio

that, I think, if not totally
gets it wrong,

at the very least it does miss out

very important key details
about the operation

and what's really behind it.

So first let's start by taking a look at
that idea of Operation Gladio

as it has been cemented in the minds

of the few who have actually bothered
to look into it.

And there is a couple of sources
that have become standards.

For example, one of the ones we
mentioned back in Episode 49

was the now-classic BBC2 1992
documentary Operation Gladio

that was directed by Allan Francovich.

And that is widely available online:

I will put a link, once again,

in the show notes to that,

as it is one of the essential
documentaries.

Even as it was coming out

just shortly after the exposure
of Operation Gladio,

it still is one of the baseline
documentaries

for an understanding, a
wide-overview understanding

of what the operation was about.

But if we are going for a wide-overview,

short, in-a-nutshell encapsulation,

popular understandings of an event,

hy not go to that source
for all things popular

-- and, usually, misconceptions
of events --

Wikipedia,

which has an entry on Operation Gladio

which gives the kind of
short-form synopsis

that I'm sure most of the listeners
are familiar with by now.

And in the Operation Gladio entry

on the Wikipedia page, it reads,

"Operation Gladio is the codename"

"for a clandestine NATO 'stay-behind'
operation"

"in Europe during the Cold War."

"Its purpose was to continue
anti-Communist actions"

"in the event of a Soviet invasion
and conquest."

"Although Gladio specifically refers
to the Italian branch"

"of the NATO stay-behind organizations,"

"'Operation Gladio' is used as"

"an informal name for all
stay-behind organizations,"

"sometimes called 'Super NATO.'"

Well, that is the absolute
short-form encapsulation

of what Operation Gladio was,

and this is usually followed up with

some of the incidents that form

some of the most spectacular examples

of what Operation Gladio did.

For example, of course,
the Bologna bombing,

and the murder of Aldo Moro,

and the Piazza Fontana bombing.

Some of the other spectacular incidents

that have been linked to Operation Gladio,

and lots of them in the Italian
context specifically:

that seems to have been the one

that has been the most exposed

and the most delved-into.

But it is important to note

that this is something that took place

in a number of different
European countries,

and as even Wikipedia goes on to note,

it was not only in some of the
European NATO-friendly countries,

but also in some neutral countries.

So it did take place in a
wide swath of Europe,

and although it is most commonly
now associated

with NATO as a stay-behind operation

-- i.e. these are forces that were
planted in various countries that would

stay behind in the event of a Soviet
takeover to act as a resistance --

the reality, once we start to peel
off the layers of that rhetoric,

is that in fact it wasn't started by NATO.

It actually predated NATO, and in fact

the idea that this is some sort

of passive stay-behind operation

that somehow got out of control,
or self-activated,

or however the dominant narrative put it,

that also is a misconstrual

of the actual reality on the ground.

And to Wikipedia's credit,

it at least later notes further on in
that synopsis,

"The role of the Central Intelligence
Agency (CIA)"

"in sponsoring Gladio, and the extent of"

"its activities during the Cold War era,"

"and its relationship to right-wing
terrorist attacks"

"perpetrated in Italy during the
"Years of Lead"

"(late 1960s to early 1980s)"

"and other similar clandestine operations"

"is the subject of ongoing debate
and investigation,"

"but never proved."

"Switzerland and Belgium have had
parliamentary inquiries into the matter."

Well, as I say: to their credit,

they at least raise the controversy there

in the opening paragraphs

of the Operation Gladio article.

So once again, I would suggest people use,

if not the Wikipedia page,

perhaps the BBC documentary,

as starting points to get a broad overview

of what Operation Gladio was,

its scale and scope.

And of course you might want to go back

and re-listen, or listen for
the first time,

to Episode 49 of this podcast,

where we did talk about some
of this history.

But in order to establish, really,

the roots of Operation Gladio

and some of the ways that it began
to unfold,

we're going to turn to a conversation
<br/>that I conducted quite recently

with Tom Secker of Investigating
the Terror.

And for those of you who have not
checked out Tom Secker or his work before,

I would wholeheartedly suggest you do so.

And you might start with some of
the conversations

we've had with Secker on this podcast
in the past.

Very enlightening conversations on a
host of topics

to do with the War on Terror paradigm

and predictive programming

and many other points, pieces of this
puzzle besides.

But in our latest conversation,

which took place just over a week ago,

we talked about Operation Gladio
and its roots,

and where it really came from.

And this is a very wide-ranging
conversation.

It's almost one hour long, so I would
suggest

-- I would really implore people --

to go and listen to the entire interview

where we get into a lot of the specifics

of what Operation Gladio actually did,

what was done in its name,

and a lot of the pieces of mystery
and puzzle

that still surround this operation.

But with Tom Secker, we started

by delving into the roots of the program,

how it was established,

and who was really behind it.

Well, I mean, it started during
World War II.

World War II obviously was a
massive conventional military war,

but it was also a massive
unconventional intelligence war.

And in fact, that's largely... I think

-- perhaps because of my biases
and interests --

I think that was how it was really
won and lost,

in a lot of respects.

And Gladio started out as simple
stay-behind units,

the idea being that when...

it was kind of inspired by when the Nazis
spread out from Germany

and seized Poland, Czechoslovakia,
France, Denmark, Norway, Holland;

the armies in a lot of those countries

decided that they weren't going to
fight them, basically.

That is either... there was no point
trying

to directly confront the Nazi war machine.

But what they did,

and what other countries on their side
of the conflict did,

was leave in stay-behind units,

secret military units that could
be activated

once the incoming, the invading army
had taken over.

So that's kind of where the idea

for a stay-behind army starts.

And interestingly enough,
Ian Fleming's brother

was in the Special Operations Executive

and was involved in setting up

the stay-behind armies during
World War II.

Anyway, towards the end of the war,

when it became relatively clear

that the Allies were going to win

and that the Axis powers
were going to lose,

the intelligence apparatus that
had been set up

-- particularly in Britain, but also
in America --

became convinced that the next
great threat,

the great post-war threat,

was going to come from Russia.

And this is sort of before the
Soviet Union even really was

the Soviet Union as we conceive of it,
I think.

But nonetheless, they thought very much

that the danger was that having
exhausted so much

defeating fascism, defeating the Nazis,

that they would leave themselves open

to a Soviet conquering,

a Russian conquering of Western Europe.

So at the end of the War,

when most of the troops

-- the winning troops,
the Allied troops --

went home and got on with their lives,

or as much as they could,

various units

-- both intelligence and military units --

were left in almost every
Western European nation

-- at least over a dozen Western
European nations, in any case.

And these were under the guidance

of the Special Operations Executive,

which is sort of the paramilitary arm
of MI6, or became that;

and the OSS, which became the CIA.

So that's where the operation began.

And it did, I think, begin quite
genuinely:

they genuinely -- rightly or wrongly --

conceived of a Russian threat,

and these units were actually left there,

at least in the start,

for the purpose of potentially defending

against that forthcoming invasion.

But as your tone indicates,

that of course isn't
where things left off.

And it developed a kind of life
of its own.

It kind of developed into
something different;

and it took different forms
in different countries.

And as I understand it, Italy perhaps was

the most advanced or most developed form

of this stay-behind operation

that kind of took on a life of its own

in the ensuing decades.

And I suppose that is because of

a number of factors, not least due to

the internal politics of each country.

But let's talk about NATO and how

it started to become involved with this;

because, as you say, this was

essentially an intelligence operation.

And as I understand it,

there was something to do
with NATO protocols;

and as countries signed on to NATO,

basically, part of what they
were signing on to

was basically a tacit understanding

that they wouldn't tackle
right-wing extremists

committing certain attacks
and spectacular events.

To what extent do we have that formalized?

To what extent do we know
about those types of protocols?

And to what extent was
NATO really involved

in furthering Operation Gladio?

Well, I think NATO was centrally involved

in turning Gladio from its original form

of these essentially defensive
stay-behind armies

into something more proactive.

I mean, the exact documentation on NATO's,

as you say, sort of, obligation,

its protocols to member states
as to what, I suppose,

the political formulation
of those countries would look like,

and in particular what the politics

of their security services would be:

I'm sure it is very
well-documented somewhere.

But it's not the easiest thing

to get your hands on NATO paperwork.

In fact it's almost impossible:

NATO have refused, to my knowledge, every

Freedom of Information request
on this topic.

But there are testimony

from NATO officials and from other people

involved in these circles around this time

-- diplomatic circles and so on --

who were saying that this is, in effect,

what the deal was.

That, as is so often the case
with these things,

the extent to which it was formalized:

fair question,

but it's kind of maybe beside the point.

The point is, were those nations
obliged to go along with this or not,

regardless of whether it was on paper

or whether it was just sort of
said in the wind.

So I think NATO was integrally
involved, in fact,

in changing Gladio from its original form

into its eventual form.

Because NATO is essentially

the Anglo-American establishment.

That's all it ever really was

-- or it's a kind of outgrowth of that.

Most of the member states of NATO

don't really have a say in anything
that it does.

They just kind of have to go
along with it.

And in particular if you look at,
for example,

the National Security Council's documents

in the immediate post-war period,

in the mid-to-late 40's,

they explicitly talk about how,
for example,

the CIA was the designated agency

for dealing with internal insurrections,
as they saw it:

i.e., political problems
in other countries.

Exactly what this connection
between CIA and NATO is,

to be honest, I'm not sure.

It's not something I have a massive
amount of information on.

There must be quite a lot of connections.

But I read Daniele Ganser's book on this,

and I recently read Richard Cottrell's
book on this,

and they only really manage to establish

a kind of Department of Defense-NATO
connection.

The CIA-NATO connection

is pretty much shrouded in secrecy.

So exactly where the lines of authority

are being drawn in this

is not at all clear.

What happened is relatively clear;

exactly who was responsible

a bit more, kind of, fuzzy.

But as you say, I think it probably is

a little bit of a formality

to establish the paperwork of it.

And in some ways, I think this
goes to show

that there is, in fact, some sort
of governing principle,

governing bodies, governing people
behind the scenes

that are not necessarily established

through paperwork that's documented,

but are demonstrably still behind
these types of operations.

Perhaps most notably,
in this particular instance,

with the French withdrawal from NATO:

which, of course, did not affect
in any way

the stay-behind operation
that was in France.

There were still the stay-behind
units there.

So I think we can see that there
is a kind of a disconnect

between whatever formal agreements
might have been functioning

and what individual countries might
have been actually doing on the ground.

And I think another example of that

is the fact that many of the leaders
of these countries

did not necessarily know about

the stay-behind operations
in those countries.

Perhaps you can speak to
the kind of disconnect

between the actual reality

and who knew what about

what was actually happening
in their own countries.

Well, I mean, there is a useful example

in the Portuguese Gladio,

in that it wasn't quite as
formally involved

with the local intelligence services

as it was in other countries,

in particular in Italy.

In Italy, you're talking about

military intelligence people setting up

-- actually creating from the ground up --

right-wing extremist militant groups

like Ordine Nuovo, Avanguardia Nazionale.

These were invented by people
like Pino Rauti,

who worked for the Italian
military intelligence.

That's kind of unambiguous.

In Portugal, it was a bit different.

I'm not convinced that there's
any evidence that I've seen

that the local Portuguese intelligence

actually knew what was going on.

It was largely run through an organization

called the Aginter Press

-- who were, as the name suggests,

they were a kind of radical
publishing press;

a radical right-wing publishing house.

But that in itself was a front
for a bunch of people

who have all kinds of OSS connections

or neo-Nazi connections,
and what have you.

One guy in particular,

the guy who set up the Aginter Press,

was a guy called Yves Guérin-Sérac.

He is ex-Vichy military intelligence
from World War II.

He's a Nazi collaborator.

So he set up this organization,

and it is used for not just propagating
right-wing ideology

-- or, what: extreme right-wing ideology -

but also for transshipment of the
various things

that you would need to run a secret army.

So we are talking explosives and guns,

but we are also talking people.

The Aginter Press, in particular,

was involved with shipping people
over to Latin America

so they could be trained in the
School of the Americas.

It links up to that extent.

And obviously some of these people then

end up in coups like the one in Chile.

So it's sort of... it's obviously
connected

directly to British and American military,

and British and American intelligence.

But I don't think...

I've never come across, for example,

a local Portuguese intelligence agent

who was working at a high level

in the Aginter Press.

I've never found any kind of connection
like that

in my reading on the topic.

So all of this suggests very much

that this is sort of not just an outgrowth

of the stay-behind armies
from World War II,

but I suppose also an outgrowth
from Project Paperclip

and the Western-Nazi
collaboration post-war,

because a lot of these people
then seem to turn up

in the early 1940s, 1950s Gladio gangs.

Once again, Tom Secker of
Investigating the Terror.

And once again, I ask you to go

and listen to the entire interview

so that you can get the bigger overview
of Operation Gladio

and the way that it unfolded
in Western Europe

and some of the questions

that still surround the operation.

Once again, Tom Secker:

just an absolute fount of information

on all sorts of topics like this,

and he has definitely done his homework

on Operation Gladio as well.

So it is a very interesting conversation.

But from that point,

I want to transition into, I think,

something that is often neglected

-- if not completely unknown to --

a lot of even the most diligent
alternative media researchers.

And that is the effects of
Operation Gladio

not in Western Europe,

as most of the focus of the scholarship

on Operation Gladio hitherto
has focused on,

but its effects in Central Asia
and the Caucasus region

up until the present day.

And this is just an
absolutely fascinating piece

of the Operation Gladio puzzle

that puts into perspective

the entire War on Terror paradigm

as it exists today;

not 30 years ago, in the context

of bombings that took place in Italy

or anything of that sort:

that is vitally important

for people to understand and expose

as documented examples
of false-flag terrorism

that we can now identify

as having come and sourced from NATO

and Western intelligence agencies

and their minions in various positions.

But it is important to understand

how this is effecting us today.

And there are lots of glimpses into this

that we have seen in the
last several years

for those who have been paying attention.

So I'm going to put some of
those links and sources

in today's documentation section

-- along with, of course, all the other
articles,

interviews, and videos that I
mentioned today --

but with some provisos and caveats.

Just like Wikipedia or any other
source like that,

there are good pieces of information
to be taken away,

but of course there is also misleading
pieces of information,

and some information is omitted altogether

that makes the entire picture
altogether different

than what it really is.

So for example,

I'll point people to an
interesting article

by Christopher Deliso from AntiWar.com

from February, 2008,

called "Deep State Coup Averted
in Turkey,"

which does have a good overview

of some of the ways that the Cold War

and NATO and the Deep State

came together through Operation Gladio

to effect what was happening in Turkey,

in the creation of the Deep State there

and some of the ultranationalist factions

that were energized through
the auspices of this operation.

But as Sibel Edmonds pointed out to me,
for example,

recently, when we were preparing
for our own interview on this subject,

although he does get some of the
background to this story correct,

he misses out entirely on the
current picture

and gets some of the things
just, frankly, wrong

when it comes to the present day and age.

So it does have some good background,

but it can't exactly be trusted
on all counts.

I'm gonna throw in another link

to something that is related
and deeply important

when we come to the Turkish Deep State

and how that relates to this
bigger picture,

and that's an article by Gareth Jenkins
from last year

talking about the Sledgehammer

and the politics of Turkish justice

and some of the events that are
happening right now in Turkey.

Once again, an interesting source
with lots of information

and some very thorough notes
on the situation.

But today we're really going
to get into this

with an extended feature interview
with Sibel Edmonds.

The audio of this interview

has been posted in its entirety
to CorbettReport.com.

And although I say this quite often
on the podcast,

I could not stress this more vehemently
this time:

if you never take my advice
on anything else ever again,

please just go and listen to

the full audio of this interview.

It is probably the single
most important interview

I have ever conducted at
The Corbett Report.

It is full of very important information

on exactly this topic, Operation Gladio;

how it extended into Central Asia
and the Caucasus;

and how it is still continuing
to operate there today

through a new version of this same
Operation Gladio:

a new form, a new Plan B that has emerged

from the Operation Gladio

that is still very deeply entwined
with world politics

and puts the entire War on Terror
into perspective.

Again, I can't stress this enough.

This has been covered, in bits and pieces,

time and time again by Sibel Edmonds

on BoilingFrogsPost.com.

So I will throw in links to some
of the articles

that she's put up over the years
on this subject,

including the New York Times exposé

on Imam Gülen's charter schools

and also an earlier article

talking about the Washington
Post's coverage

of the Fethullah Gülen Islamic network

and its CIA ties.

But again, all of these bits and pieces

are very difficult to put into
the bigger picture

when we are unfamiliar with

a lot of this information and its context.

So in our interview,

Sibel Edmonds did a brilliant job

of outlining this context

and putting it into place

so we could see how it developed.

And unfortunately, there's
no easy way to really excise

just significant chunks
from this interview.

The only way to do it

is to play the interview
in its full context.

So I'm not going to play
the entire interview,

which is an hour long,

but we are going to play
a significant chunk

of that interview on today's podcast.

Once again: strap yourself in,

get your notebooks ready,

because there is a ton of information
in this interview.

And please, please help me

to spread this information
around to other people

to get them informed about what
Operation Gladio is

-- still, today --

really all about.

So without further ado, I present to you

my recent interview with Sibel Edmonds

of BoilingFrogsPost.com.

Sure.

Turkey always was the most important
center, country,

in all this, Gladio operations,

before the fall of the Soviet Union.

It's interesting because when I go

and read what's available

to public online

-- which is very, very little on Gladio:
that's why I was ecstatic

when you had your interview on Gladio
week ago --

and what you see

is usually things like Italy.

It's, like, Gladio and Italy

and how it unfolded,

how it was disbanded,

et cetera, et cetera.

But you don't see much on Turkey,

and Turkey was the most important,

the most important

operations center for Gladio.

And obviously, it's because of,

A. Its geographic location:

Just take a look at Turkey on the map.

And if you're looking

for that period of time

before the fall of the Soviet Union,

from the Black Sea it goes eastern:

you're looking at all the former
Soviet blocs in there.

And then, again, its position

within the Middle East,

and the other side
being connected to Europe.

So Turkey always had the most position

within this Gladio operation

until... before the fall of
the Soviet Union.

And that you don't see.

There are very few articles

written out there scattered.

There's one good one by
Le Monde [Diplomatique]

which was concentrating mainly

on the actors you just mentioned:

Abdullah Çatlı and Susurluk incident.

And you have couple of authors

in Switzerland and in England
who have written about this.

Nothing: nothing here,
in the United States, on that.

So, I'll give you a little bit of history,

because you covered a lot of this

with your previous guest.

But this history is going to
concentrate more

on the character that we're
gonna be talking about

and the Turkish side on this:

Gladio operations,

until the fall of the Soviet Union.

And in Turkey,

there were two prime groups

that were working within Gladio network

and carrying out

some of the most important operations:

in Western Europe;

in Northern Europe;

and mainly in Eastern Bloc.

And that was:

1. The formal, official Turkish military.

And that is made up:

both Turkish military

and the Turkish military intelligence,

directly connected to NATO, Brussels,

and within the Gladio operations.

But then, beneath the military

-- Turkish official military --

you had the paramilitary force.

Who were these people?

And that's very, very interesting.
These people...

Again, you look at some of the articles,
<br/>and people talking about it:

Yeah, they are saying
"They are ultranationalists."

But what kind of jobs did they have?

Who were these people who were
recruited by Turkish military,

trained, and absorbed into NATO's...

-- US/NATO's --

Gladio operations?

Well, a lot of these people, actually:
in 1980s, they were in jail.

They had positions that were...

the best way to describe them

would be the Godfathers in Turkey.

"Babas."

That's how they refer to them in Turkey:

the babas, which means the Godfathers.

They were the top people

who ran blackmail,

heroin operations.

And even back then, it was...

Turkey has always been

the most important artery

in moving heroin into Europe,

whether it came

through the borders through Iran,

or it came via some Kurdish factions

coming through Iraq...

So Turkey has always been important.

And these babas ran...

-- and military did, too.
Turkish military did, too --

But they were also ultranationalists;

but they were
secularist ultranationalists.

They put Atatürk...

-- the father of Turkey,
the father of modern Turkey --

in, basically, the place of God.

And of course

Atatürk advocated secularism

-- forced secularism.

And I have to emphasize this:
forced secularism.

And these guys,

even when I was growing up in Turkey,

they were very easy to identify.

They usually wore this mustache

that really resembled the
Hitler mustache,

and they had salutes that were like...

for Grey Wolves, that was like this:

And their babas were in jail.

And these guys had informants all over:

not only in Turkey, but in elsewhere.

So, as part of Gladio's plan,

Turkish military, Turkish police,
Turkish intelligence forces:

they took all these notorious...

-- I mean, these are psychopaths,
sociopaths!

these people are mass-murderers --

they took them out of those prisons.

And they said, "You know what?"

"Now you are going to..."

"-- with your skills, with what you do,
with what you know --"

"you are going to serve the State."

And that is Turkey,

and the Great Turkishness.

And Great Turkishness is also being
protected by the West, because,

"The Communist is out there:"
"They're gonna take us over."

"Then we have these issues with
the Kurdish people..."

"And meanwhile, you can also
fill out your own pockets."

"You can still be big; you can still
be Godfather,"

"but your main role..."

" -- and this is why we are releasing you,
bringing you out -- is going to be"

"serving us for all these operations"

So these guys were removed,

they were sent to various centers,
including in Brussels.

And they received training,
both via Turkish military,

via US-NATO forces...

And they were given
diplomatic passports.

Not only Turkish passports,

but passports from various countries.

And they still moved...

worked in the area
where you move heroin;

but also weapons smuggling,

mass murders,
a lot of false flag attacks.

Not only inside Turkey,

but in other countries as well.

And again, your guest
talked about some of these:

the assassination attempts, the Pope,
et cetera, et cetera.

And they also filled out
their own pockets.

So, these were the characters.

Now, it's very interesting:

You'd say...
-- or, a lot of people would say --

"Well, this was before:"

"during Communism."

"And we also did things with mujahideens"

"and Bin Laden in Afghanistan."

And, also:

"It deals a lot with Turkish politics,"

"so why should that interest people
here in the United States?"

And... because this is as much

as they know, or they read, or they hear.

So, what happens after the fall
of the Soviet Union?

Well, the character you just mentioned,

Abdullah Çatlı:

he's one of the main foot-soldiers,

one of the main commandos

under the military

-- which is Turkish military --

...which is under NATO and
the United States.

One of the most notorious figures.

I mean, this guy was responsible

in and outside Turkey

of tens of thousands of murders.

Bombs...

-- in some cases they would just

storm a house with medical
students in Turkey

and they would cut everybody's heads.

And those people were accused of

advocating for socialism or communism.

This guy,

he actually ends up

on the list of most wanted...

-- INTERPOL's most wanted list, OK? --

for various reasons.

Murders...

international murders,
not only murders in Turkey.

We are looking at INTERPOL's
most wanted, right?

Heroin smuggling, weapons smuggling...

So he's on the top ten most wanted people;

and this is post-Soviet Union.

And he ends up in a jail,

in a high-security prison in Switzerland.

He gets arrested during one of his
movement's operations.

And when you look at

some of the reporting on this guy

-- including the newspapers, or the
articles written on the Grey Wolves --

it says: while he was in this

high-security prison in Switzerland

-- this is Abdullah Çatlı --

he escaped.

He actually escaped

by support of helicopter.

So you're in a high-security prison

in Switzerland

and you mysteriously escape

via helicopter.

And some more detailed stories

from very few reporters

who followed up and wrote on this:

and that was a NATO-owned helicopter!

I mean, this really sounds
like a movie plot,

something that Hollywood would make.

And so, yeah:

this is the most wanted INTERPOL guy.

It gets even stranger:

Same guy,

while still wanted after he escapes

-- NATO helicopter from high-security
Swiss prison --

he mysteriously ends up in England.

In London. OK?

And again, mysteriously,

in 1989, the government

-- UK government --

grants him citizenship!

Hah!

It's not even one year
since he enters the UK.

He is still the most wanted
on INTERPOL's list.

And then, within a year after that,

this same guy, Abdullah Çatlı,

flies over, comes to the United States
-- and this is around 1990, 1991 --

comes to Chicago,

and is mysteriously given

an American passport!

-- an American Green Card;
this is not passport yet --

And during all this time,

he is among the top ten most wanted
people by INTERPOL.

Now, the first question people
should ask...

-- especially those who say,

"Ah, this is about some..."

"during Cold War and Communism,"

"and it's Turkish internal politics..." :

Why the most wanted guy by Interpol

-- a notorious murderer, drug-runner --

ends up in England

of all the places,

and gets a citizenship?

Why he comes to the United States

and is given another citizenship?

So, that's the first questions

listeners should be asking.

And, why Chicago is where he settles?
-- and that's where he settles.

And when he settles there,

he has dozens

of entries and exits from Chicago.

And after the Susurluk scandal,

-- which, I'm gonna get into it --

it basically comes out,

with all those investigations
they had in Turkey

that from Chicago,

he carried out all these operations

in Central Asia, Caucasus,

Eastern Europe,

Xinjiang province of China.

So he kept flying...

-- while he's still most wanted
by INTERPOL.

We don't know how and why
he got all those citizenships

while he's most wanted,

and why he carried

four or five diplomatic passports.

Nobody gets into those questions.

And these diplomatic passports

are not, only, given to him

by government of Turkey.

So he... one of his trips...
-- again, this is very well-documented --

This is not conspiracy theory.

This is not some Top Secret

classified documents any longer,

because this stuff all came out

during this...

after this scandal in Turkey.

So he...

in 1996, 1995,

he is the one

who goes to Azerbaijan from Chicago.

Via Turkey: goes to Azerbaijan.

With a team of several people,

less than a dozen,

he carries out this

attempted assassination

against Aliyev.

This is the Aliyev Senior,

before his son became

the President of Azerbaijan.

And it was meant to be an "attempted,"

that would not succeed.

Because if you look at Azerbaijan's

position during that same time,

1994 to 1996,

before this assassination attempt,

you would see that Aliyev

was still siding with Russia.

It was still the old loyalties:

the old loyalties of,

"We were part of the Soviet Union,"

"and we are still siding with Russia."

Now, this is when the United States,
-- the West --

was trying by its proxy, Turkey...

-- Why Turkey? They speak Turkish.

What language do they speak in these
countries, including Azerbaijan?

Turkish.

They are Muslim:

What's the religion in Azerbaijan

and all these ex-Soviet blocs?

Muslims.

So: this was the ideal proxy

to go grab countries

like Tajikistan,

and Kyrgyzstan

and Azerbaijan,

and say, "OK: Say bye-bye to Russia."

"We want you to be one of us." Right?

Well, of course, Russia

was doing its part from the other side.

So during this period

when this assassination
attempt occurred,

Aliyev Senior

-- the President in Azerbaijan --

still was loyal to Russia.

And all these different attempts

to move him to the other side

had not been successful,

so they moved to plans

that included assassination attempt,

paired up with blackmails.

Because, again: during this time,

the doors, the borders were open

in Azerbaijan.

A lot of these Turkish babas,

Godfathers,

moved in there,

and they opened really lavish,
interesting casinos.

You'd say, "Casinos? Azerbaijan?"

Yeah!

And, guess what?

Several of Aliyev's family

were given advance offerings

in these casinos,

and they collected a lot of debt,

-- and this is people very close to
Aliyev Senior.

And they started getting death threats,
saying, "Well, if you don't pay off"

"these millions-and-millions dollars of
debt in your casino gambling debt,"

"we're gonna take you out."

Then comes the assassination attempt.

So, again: if people were to go
and look at the records

on this assassination attempt on Aliyev,

they would see Abdullah Çatlı's name.

They would see that Aliyev
came out and said,

"The people responsible for this"

"were NATO/US via Turkey."

And the Turkish President calling

and saying, "No, these were the thugs,"

"the mafia people: they have
nothing to do with us!"

-- all these denials.

Whatever happened, is...

Aliyev very quickly switched position

after this assassination attempt, OK?

You fast-forward, look at Azerbaijan:

Since 1996,

Azerbaijan's been the closest ally

of the United States and NATO.

In fact, they are becoming
a NATO member.

For the last eight years, NATO has been
there with a base, training them.

They've been passing the tests.

They went from purchasing

something like $25 million worth
of weapons from the United States,

today to something like $4...
three-and-a-half, $4 billions of...

four billion dollars of US weapons.

So: success! Gladio was successful.

It was... who carried it out?

Abdullah Çatlı.

After he finished, he just shook his hand

and said, "OK, mission accomplished."

Came back again to Chicago.

Now, I'm going to open a parenthesis
here and say, remember:

for the past 11, 12 years,

I've been talking about the center

of all these operations

that have to do with my
state secrets privilege,

and people involved,

was in Chicago.

I have been saying "Chicago"
so many times!

So I don't believe anyone is...

-- at least not your listeners, or mine --

who haven't heard this:

me saying, "Chicago, Chicago."

So: he went back to Chicago.

This was one of his trips.

His other trips included

going from the other side,

through the Pacific:

going to China.

And then, from there,

going to this area, Xinjiang.

This is extremely important.

Again, Xinjiang: Muslim population.

And they are referred to...

-- in Turkey, they don't call them
Xinjiang.

It's "[East] Turkestan,"

[East] Turkestan.
They speak Turkic dialect.

Guess what?

"Up there? A great place!"

"Imagine, they get their independence: "

"We can have our little mini base there!"

"You know how close we are to China?"

I mean, on one hand you can say,
"Yeah, there's Taiwan out there."

Well, this is going to be even
more important than Taiwan!

And then, look again:

the other important strategic location

for Xinjiang

-- for [East] Turkestan,
a.k.a. Uyghuristan --

You look out there: you see Pakistan;
you see Afghanistan.

This is a very important region.

This has been a very important
region, prize,

for the United States, for the West.

We've been...

We've been doing a lot of things there.

Every time you hear...

-- at least when I was working there,

during this period that

FBI was investigating these...

-- not operations there, but people here:

the criminals in the US,

who carried out the operations there.

Those terrorist attacks:

they were orchestrated

from a long distance.

You go to Turkey;

Then, from Turkey, you go to Brussels;

to England;

and then you go to the United States.

So, all the orchestration:

it's not some minorities or some Muslims
get together, suddenly they go and...

It doesn't happen.

It didn't happen that way,

at least during that period.

And this guy from Chicago

was sent to go and organize,

carry out a couple of terrorism,

uprising events:

turn around,

back to Chicago again.

Back to Chicago again.

So: NATO,

the Gladio operation,

via Turkish military, <br/>and Turkish

Godfather-ultranationalist-criminal-thug
paramilitary

continued until around 1996.

Towards the period...

-- like, 1994 to 1996 --

the decision-makers,

-- the top layers of NATO, the US...

-- what we usually refer to as
"shadow government," "the powers" --

they were having this debate.

They were having this...
two options in front of them.

Two plans: which one is better?

One is what they did

before the fall of the Soviet Union:

and that was using ultranationalism

-- fascism, OK? --

against the Soviet Union;

against Communism.

Versus, what they have already seen

as a very successful, successful plan:

1. They saw it in Afghanistan

with the mujahideens, Bin Laden group.

But then, recently...

-- and this is 1994, 1995, 1996 --

they were seeing its use again and again:

in the Balkans,

in the Kosovo region,

in Bosnia.

And this is when we have
all these mujahideen:

Bin Laden, Zawahiri...
-- think about it, you know? -

factions from Egypt,
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan:

bringing them to Turkey.

Train them; bring them over there.

It was, like:

"You know, these ultranationalists:
they haven't been very productive."

"And we think the mujahideen
Islamist factions"

"are gonna much more useful"

"in our main objective of taking over: "

"having more of these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side."

OK? "On our side."

So this is...
during this, sometimes we use them;

sometimes we use the fascist
Godfather ultranationalists.

But then, in nineteen... end of 1996,

Abdullah Çatlı -- the man we've been
talking about; the thug, who went through

Xinjiang and all this stuff --
he comes to Turkey for another mission

that he was gonna go and implement.

However: while he's in Turkey,

together with some beauty queen

and a few other colleagues...

they are in Turkey,

they are traveling in this black Mercedes,

and they have a car crash, and...

they die.

Everyone in the car -- except one guy --
dies. Right?

Well, before the Turkish police
or military

got to the bodies,

the local police

-- that wouldn't know anything about
who were these people --

and the local journalists

got to the scene.

And, lo and behold:

here is the world's most wanted man,

Abdullah Çatlı, the great Godfather,

with all his diplomatic passports
with him.

But, not only that:

together with him,

you have the Chief of Police of Turkey.

I mean, the top police guy.

You have incredibly important
legit political figures.

It was like, "WTF, woman!"

"What are they doing in the car
with this guy?" -- Died.

Basically, this was...

well, in Turkey,

-- even though it had been leaked
in little bits and pieces --

it was this huge exposure

of the thugs

-- criminal, ultranationalist fascists --

actually working with -- and for --

the Turkish government.
And for right now, I'm gonna keep it...

"Turkish government:"

that is, the Turkish military;

the Turkish...
the legit Turkish institutions, right?

So, all the drug-running they were doing,

they were all controlled

and managed by the state.

And all the killings, the terrorisms

that they're found responsible for:

again, they were executed for the state.

This was huge in Turkey.

It caused an uproar.

A lot of documents started leaking.

Just like "9/11 Commission,"

there was this huge commission

established in Turkey.

Nobody talked about anything else

but this Susurluk... they called it
"Susurluk Scandal"

because the car accident

took place in Susurluk.

Now:

there was this fear by the West

-- and this is the United States,
the Europeans --

like, "Uh-Oh!"

"Now, we know that a lot of these
commission members,"

"they are like ours: Thomas Kean, and..."

"but:"

"some of them...-- or, by default -- "

"a lot of other"-- excuse my language --

"crap may come out"

"about our roles, the stuff we did."

"We" being the ultimate bosses.

And guess what happened?

One of the Turkish Gladio handlers
in Turkey

was an ambassador,

United States Ambassador in Turkey
at the time.

This guy was Ambassador from 1992

until the Susurluk scandal:

no other guy than Marc Grossman:
the guy... I have been saying

for the past five [years],
"You've got to look at Marc Grossman."

So, with this fear that a lot of secrets
-- state secrets -- were going to get out

during this: investigations, and
journalists digging in...

-- some people were leaking;
some people were talking --

the United States right away
got their man out of Turkey:

Marc Grossman.

No reason cited.

He still had another one-and-a-half,
two years left.

No reason cited.

Guess who else was pulled?

Another guy who was handling
the Operation Gladio,

the Turkish militants

in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

This man, his name:

-- at the time, a Major --

Major Douglas Dickerson.

This is the man...

-- if you have read my book;
if you know my case --

was the one who was married

to this spy in the FBI.

Major Douglas Dickerson:

he still had one-and-a-half years left.

He was working for Marc Grossman
in Ankara.

His main task under NATO

was operations...

Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan:
There were three or four countries,

that he directed the Turkish paramilitary
Gladio operations in those countries.

Lo and behold: the same man

-- this is documented --

he is pulled off of his position

and immediately sent to a base
in Germany

-- this is American military base --
and from there to Brussels.

Hah! This is interesting!

Now, these characters

-- that've been talked about in my case
for 12 years --

were there in 1997.

Susurluk happens: they were pulled out.

So was the top military man...

-- and this was the top man
for the Turkish

so-called "counterterrorism"
operations commando --

was sent on a mission

to Washington, DC Turkish Embassy
-- and again, this is documented --

Right after Susurluk, they had
to get him out.

He was a chief guy in the military

overseeing these thugs and
these operations;

these false terror, false flag operations.

Not only in Turkey:

Central Asia, Caucasus.

A lot of Chechen operations;

Eastern Europe.

So, he was pulled.

He was sent to Washington, DC.

He never went back.

Again, nobody cited any reason.

They took all these important figures:

they took them to Brussels,

and they took them to Washington, DC.

And...

then it was

the decision-making time

for the "top guys in the world..."

-- For NATO, US, UK --

saying:

"Too much exposure."

"This chapter is closed."

"Gladio is not closed: "

"We are going to Plan B,"

"Gladio Plan B operations..."

"which... we have already prepared
for it some, to some extent."

"And that is: "

"we are not gonna use paramilitary;"

"we're gonna use Islamist factions."

"Who? a.k.a. mujahideens."

"a.k.a. al-Qaeda."

Once again, the incomparable Sibel
Edmonds:

famed FBI whistleblower,

host and founder of BoilingFrogsPost.com,

in an extended interview

on The Corbett Report earlier this week.

So once again, I will urge you to go
and get

the entire audio of that interview

available now for download on
CorbettReport.com

and please help spread this
information around

to others who are...

even those who are awake

to the false-flag War on Terror paradigm,

because this puts into place a lot
of the pieces

that make this entire story make
a lot more sense.

And hopefully even for those who
are not awake to this at all,

they will be able to understand

the pieces of this puzzle

that are being laid out here.

Now, if a lot of this information
was new to you

and a lot of these names and dates and
places are confusing and bewildering,

well, take that as a good sign.

It's a sign that we are encountering
new information,

information that has not been
rehashed a thousand times over

and that does add to the picture
that is being painted here

of the false flag war on terror

and what it is really all about,

and who are some of the main
players in this.

Again, some extremely, exceptionally
important information.

And if this leaves you with more
questions than answers,

I would say that at the very least
that's a sign

that we are getting closer
towards establishing

what it is we are actually looking for

in defining this War on Terror.

Now, of course there are still

many, many more questions to ask
about this:

the Deep State in Turkey

and how that plays into

the entire Operation Gladio;

how these actors have coordinated

and collaborated in the past;

what things are going on today

that we can identify that are related

to this deep state, and the actions

that are taking place behind the scenes;

and what is likely to play out from here.

A ton of information to think about,

to ponder, to ask questions about

to try to connect some of these
puzzle pieces together.

But of course we can't do all of
that in one podcast episode.

So, for those of you who have listened

to the whole Sibel Edmonds interview,

you will notice that we are going
to conduct

further interviews on this topic
in the future.

We're going to continue delving into this,

including some of the names and dates

and actors and people

that we identified in that interview,

and we're going to continue

delving into that in future interviews.

And one thing that I have asked is

for people to send in their
questions for Sibel

so that they can actually start
to identify

some of the things that they're
still confused about

or that they want outlined
in greater detail,

or some of the people and places

that they want explicated further.

And if you send those questions in

through the contact form
on CorbettReport.com,

I will collate them

and try to distill them down
to the essence

and ask them to Sibel
in our next interview

-- or interviews, perhaps --

on this very important subject.

So you are part of this conversation,

and we are going to delve
into this together

further from here.

But let's use, at least, the information

that we have in today's episode

and the information from the show notes
for today's episode

as the starting point for what

is probably the most essential part

of this entire War on Terror paradigm
and narrative

that's been created around us

and getting to the bottom

of what is really behind it.

So we're gonna leave the investigation
there today,

and again we've looked at so
much information

that I hope you will use this

and re-use this episode as a guide
along your quest

for finding out more information

about who these people are

and the way they fit together.

And once again, please send in
your questions for Sibel

to the contact form of CorbettReport.com,

and we will continue delving into
this in the future.

And on that note, let me remind you:

Corbett Report is listener-supported
media,

so I do appreciate and genuinely
thank

all of the listeners out there who
have supported,

either monetarily through subscribing
or buying a DVD,

or for those who have helped

to spread the word about this information.

Once again, I couldn't do it without
all of you.

So on that note,

we're going to leave it there for now,

but I will be back in the very
near future.

So until then, thank you all
for listening,

and take care.

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