and since precisionAI shouldn't affect spotting, I suspect the game update fucked something up
[22-Dec-14 9:59:54 PM] Alwarren: Very well possible -_-
[22-Dec-14 9:59:56 PM] Variable: I have a headache from all of this...
[22-Dec-14 10:00:55 PM | Edited 10:01:34 PM] Variable: Kydoimos also mentioned that his AI became blind on one of his foggy missions. there WAS fog on outlawz' mission, right?
[22-Dec-14 10:01:28 PM] Alwarren: I can'T remember. I do think so yes
[22-Dec-14 10:01:56 PM] Variable: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[22-Dec-14 10:02:08 PM] Alwarren: Eh?
[22-Dec-14 10:02:19 PM] Variable: I'm in pain
[22-Dec-14 10:02:32 PM] Alwarren: Argh... yeah -_-
[22-Dec-14 10:02:39 PM] Variable: I want to find a reasonable setting, why is this so hard?
[22-Dec-14 10:02:56 PM] Variable: it's like everything works against people who'd like to play with AI
[22-Dec-14 10:03:14 PM] Alwarren: Yeah, I get the impresson the AI is on the backburner :(
[22-Dec-14 10:06:20 PM] Variable: I need a vacation
[22-Dec-14 10:06:35 PM] Alwarren: From work or from Arma?
[22-Dec-14 10:06:42 PM] Variable: From Arma
[22-Dec-14 10:06:50 PM] Alwarren: THAT actually worries me (worry)
[22-Dec-14 10:07:59 PM] Variable: me too
[22-Dec-14 10:08:26 PM] Variable: Everything is a struggle
[22-Dec-14 10:08:47 PM] Alwarren: Tell me about it, not only do I play this game, I also make mods and missions...
[22-Dec-14 10:09:11 PM] Alwarren: Quite frankly, I feel quite left alone by BIS in a lot of respects.
[22-Dec-14 10:09:35 PM] Alwarren: Shit. Now I feel depressed
[22-Dec-14 10:13:15 PM] Varanon: I can tell you why it is a struggle ATM: There is so many things broken, it's not enjoyable anymore... AI, damage model, detection (need I say submarines)
[22-Dec-14 10:13:17 PM | Edited 10:13:29 PM] Variable: Sorry about that, it's just that the frustration level is critical. scenario breaking bugs, inability to have a proper ai settings, and all this shit with the first aid scripts and never ending game bugs. it keeps piling up
[22-Dec-14 10:13:32 PM] Alwarren: If I had enough money to sustain myself for a while, I would actually try to build my own Milsim game.
[22-Dec-14 10:13:36 PM] Varanon: It's just too much broken stuff, and no prospect of getting them fixed
[22-Dec-14 10:13:54 PM] Varanon: I haven't touched Arma 3 in weeks, only joine one or two coop nights
[22-Dec-14 10:14:11 PM] Varanon: I don't even feel inclined to do any missions, nor CUP work anymore
[22-Dec-14 10:14:28 PM] Phantom: [Monday, December 22, 2014 10:06 PM] Variable:

<<< I need a vacationtime to return to Arma 2 instead of vacation just yet? :O
[22-Dec-14 10:14:38 PM] Alwarren: Forget it.
[22-Dec-14 10:14:41 PM] Phantom: it does frustrate me when i create something that once works
[22-Dec-14 10:14:45 PM] Alwarren: Nobody makes missions for Arma 2 anymore.
[22-Dec-14 10:14:46 PM] Phantom: just to have things go fubar
[22-Dec-14 10:15:20 PM] Alwarren: Unless you want to spend your evenings with Sander missions, that isn't a solution.
[22-Dec-14 10:15:29 PM] Variable: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-AI-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2841595&viewfull=1#post2841595
"I can't help but think this, along with other AI failings, is what has all but destroyed coop. With a few big exceptions (7th cav mostly), pure coop is dead. In A1/A2 there were way more servers doing coop. Of course, that was pre-wasteland/DayZ, but you'd expect there'd still be a lot of those players around, yet I look at the lists now and what is there? 100 or so players on coop on a good night and 1500 on PvP every other."
[22-Dec-14 10:15:42 PM] Variable: I can't help thinking that this guy is right
[22-Dec-14 10:15:47 PM] Varanon: Don't even start with Arma 2 anymore
[22-Dec-14 10:15:49 PM] Phantom: 2 man lonely dudes :O make a quick stuff and hop on, i do know a guy who has arma 2 but not 3 but i play sometimes
[22-Dec-14 10:15:57 PM] Variable: this post is resonating in me for a couple of days now
[22-Dec-14 10:16:38 PM] Varanon: Yeah, becasue of all hte live shit
[22-Dec-14 10:16:45 PM] Alwarren: Plainly, I have the impression that BIS doesn't care. As long as Battle Royale and Arma 3 Life mods sell copies, coop is just a nuissance because they always complain about AI.
[22-Dec-14 10:16:55 PM] Varanon: Altis Life here Altis life there... you don'T even hear anything else anymore
[22-Dec-14 10:17:07 PM] Varanon: Check Twitch, you only see this Life bullshit
[22-Dec-14 10:17:23 PM] Varanon: And of course (and apologies to any BI devs here), BI looks at this and says "screw core Arma"
[22-Dec-14 10:17:52 PM] Alwarren: That's how it looks like from my view as well.
[22-Dec-14 10:18:12 PM] Variable: times are a changing
[22-Dec-14 10:18:13 PM] Varanon: Which is of course a kick in the nuts of those people that even made Arma what it is today
[22-Dec-14 10:18:18 PM] Varanon: Fuck changing times
[22-Dec-14 10:18:55 PM] Variable: we are dinosaurs
[22-Dec-14 10:18:58 PM] Alwarren: Maybe I am old-fashioned, but all those roleplayer servers with their gangsta fantasies can go fuck themselves.
[22-Dec-14 10:18:59 PM] Variable: we need to go
[22-Dec-14 10:19:06 PM] Varanon: Probably
[22-Dec-14 10:19:12 PM] Varanon: Fuck this shit
[22-Dec-14 10:19:19 PM] Alwarren: Problem: No alternative
[22-Dec-14 10:20:08 PM] Alwarren: You might play DCS if you are into hardcode sims, you might play Battlefield if you are into run-and-gun shit, you play Inflitration if you like it more tactical, but for what we like to play, there is simply no replacement.
[22-Dec-14 10:20:33 PM] Alwarren: It's just being driven into the ground by a company that doesn't care about the people that followed their games for ten years.
[22-Dec-14 10:20:59 PM] Variable: maybe I'll master Wargame
[22-Dec-14 10:21:13 PM] Alwarren: Well not my type of game TBH.
[22-Dec-14 10:21:19 PM] Alwarren: I don't like strategy games.
[22-Dec-14 10:21:24 PM] Varanon: I can play that once in a while, and then meh
[22-Dec-14 10:21:27 PM] Alwarren: I don't like run-and-gun.
[22-Dec-14 10:21:36 PM] Alwarren: I don't like hardcore sims too much.
[22-Dec-14 10:21:55 PM] Varanon: There is no alternative to Arma, and it just pains me to see Arma run being run aground right now
[22-Dec-14 10:22:04 PM] Phantom: I like tactical shooters :O such as rainbow six (old school) and old school ghost. Arma to me is unique though
[22-Dec-14 10:22:13 PM] Varanon: Come on, guys, at least fix the glraingly obvious bugs
[22-Dec-14 10:22:18 PM] Alwarren: I don't like Player vs. Player.
[22-Dec-14 10:22:30 PM] Alwarren: I am a coop man.
[22-Dec-14 10:22:38 PM] Varanon: Phantom, for me, the thing is: it must be Coop, and I must be able to make my own missions for it
[22-Dec-14 10:22:44 PM] Phantom: same here
[22-Dec-14 10:22:44 PM] Varanon: That leaves NO alternative
[22-Dec-14 10:22:53 PM] Varanon: There just isn't anything out there
[22-Dec-14 10:23:54 PM] Phantom: i thought u guys were talking of splitting off to diff games :O
[22-Dec-14 10:24:16 PM] Phantom: but well, in the end its a depressing rant of "now what" it seems i guess
[22-Dec-14 10:24:18 PM] Varanon: No... we are talking about how Coop is dying in Arma
[22-Dec-14 10:24:23 PM] Varanon: And that there is no alternative to Arma
[22-Dec-14 10:24:30 PM] Varanon: So basically, our game is dying
[22-Dec-14 10:24:48 PM] Alwarren: Hardly. I don't want to split off to different games. I want a game like Arma, just without the game-breaking shit that is piling up.
[22-Dec-14 10:24:51 PM] Phantom: reason why i looked into Arma was for the ultimate coop experience too :/ ... im a coop guy, i dont like pvp
[22-Dec-14 10:25:06 PM] Variable: me neither
[22-Dec-14 10:25:33 PM] Alwarren: And that is the point. There is nothing that allows larger groups to play coop.
[22-Dec-14 10:25:44 PM] Varanon: I'm still hoping BI get their acto together and at least fix some of the glaringly obvious bugs
[22-Dec-14 10:26:22 PM] Alwarren: Personally, I think they stopped caring. They get more sales with Altis Life and Battle Royale. Who cares about a handful of coop players.
[22-Dec-14 10:26:31 PM] Varanon: Hell, and why did we ever use that damn issue tracker to provide feedback ? I asked whether they could bring back the GPS on the map screen over one year ago, and I was told it was an easy fix, but hell, even those easy fixes aren't fixed
[22-Dec-14 10:27:26 PM] Alwarren: You know what this is like? Neverwinter Nights. At one point they just abandoned persistent worlds, because (and they had the balls to say that to people's faces) "persistant worlds don't sell games, pretty graphics do"
[22-Dec-14 10:27:50 PM] Varanon: Yeah, and they said that literally
[22-Dec-14 10:27:57 PM] Phantom: How was leaving never winter nights?
[22-Dec-14 10:28:02 PM] Varanon: And BI is heading for the Life servers
[22-Dec-14 10:28:39 PM] Alwarren: Phantom, there was a time I poured HOURS upon hours into NWN. When NWN 2 came out and skullfucked all the veteran players, I felt betrayed.
[22-Dec-14 10:29:39 PM] Alwarren: I felt left alone. Just like I feel now about Bohemia. DayZ is their main focus, Life Mods and similar shit sells copies, so the rest isn't even taken care of. Single player players will have the same problem.
[22-Dec-14 10:29:54 PM] Alwarren: They don't get any support anymore. Single player is probably declared dead, as well as coop
[22-Dec-14 10:29:59 PM] Varanon: Yeah, come on, even single player suffers from this
[22-Dec-14 10:30:21 PM] Alwarren: Don't like Altis LIfe? Don't like Battle Royale? Don't like WasteOfTimeLand? Well too bad. Those sell copies.
[22-Dec-14 10:30:40 PM] Varanon: But you notice how much BI values single player, seeing that there was no single player content to speak of in the release
[22-Dec-14 10:31:25 PM] Varanon: Ah, damn it, I should stop ranting, I'm frustrated right now
[22-Dec-14 10:31:27 PM] Variable: While it is clear that this is where BIS is going, I'm not completely certain that this is a policy. maybe it's just going there without them paying attention to it
[22-Dec-14 10:31:47 PM] Varanon: Well, how loud should anyone scream then to make them aware
[22-Dec-14 10:31:48 PM] Alwarren: How much more can we do than rub it into their faces all the time?
[22-Dec-14 10:31:55 PM] Varanon: Because every COOP player is screaming
[22-Dec-14 10:32:07 PM] Variable: Maybe another petition
[22-Dec-14 10:32:42 PM] Alwarren: I doubt that will avail to much. We can try, but I am not sure that it will actually move anything.
[22-Dec-14 10:33:38 PM] Alwarren: This really feels like being a one-legged in an ass kicking contest.
[22-Dec-14 10:36:19 PM] Variable: If this is was a policy, I'd really understand, I can't blame them for supporting what's becoming their player base if that's the case. But just say it up front. It would be respectful
[22-Dec-14 10:36:45 PM] Varanon: True
[22-Dec-14 10:37:17 PM] Alwarren: The horrible part is that it wouldn't take too much to make the coop players happy.
[22-Dec-14 10:37:34 PM] Varanon: Well, for starters, fix the AI bugs
[22-Dec-14 10:37:37 PM | Edited 10:37:43 PM] Variable: yeah, it's like Moses and mount Nevo
[22-Dec-14 10:37:40 PM] Varanon: Those are the most pesky bugs
[22-Dec-14 10:37:41 PM] Alwarren: Just a few basic fixes to the AI, and a few basic fixes to the rest
[22-Dec-14 10:38:38 PM] Alwarren: We'Ve already pointed out the most glaring issues with the AI on the forum, and Ondrej obviously read them. If those were fixed, things would look different.
[22-Dec-14 10:38:50 PM] Alwarren: But instead of getting fixed, more appear in every patch
[22-Dec-14 10:39:39 PM] Variable: My favorite new one - they sometimes jump now when you shoot them. have you noticed that?
[22-Dec-14 10:39:55 PM] Varanon: No O.o
[22-Dec-14 10:40:06 PM] Alwarren: No haven't seen that... I saw a guy floating in mid-air yesterday, though.
[22-Dec-14 10:40:31 PM | Edited 10:40:38 PM] Variable: they make the jump animation that is not "officialy" in the game
[22-Dec-14 10:40:40 PM] Alwarren: ...
[22-Dec-14 10:40:46 PM] Alwarren: Never saw that one.
[22-Dec-14 10:40:46 PM] Varanon: faceplam
[22-Dec-14 10:40:50 PM] Variable: you know, with both legs in the air
[22-Dec-14 10:41:04 PM] Alwarren: Yeah... probably the same issue as with getting out of the rubber boat
[22-Dec-14 10:41:38 PM] Alwarren: The rubber boat could be easily fixed, just needs to move the get-out points a bit away from it.
[22-Dec-14 10:41:50 PM] Alwarren: I could do that in under a minute.
[22-Dec-14 10:41:54 PM] Alwarren: Well everybody could.
[22-Dec-14 10:43:03 PM] Variable: ok, I better avoid this now, or else I'll ruin this evening even more
[22-Dec-14 10:43:13 PM] Alwarren: yeah
[22-Dec-14 10:43:44 PM] Variable: I asked Matt if he's following that, I hope we can hear back from him