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Sarashu
Jul 11th, 2015
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  1. Jul 11 01:13:44 <Django> just for information purposes, i suppose haha
  2. Jul 11 01:13:48 <Rin> do i assume my imagined 'dislikers' to not react against/include my physical appearance in some way? or is that just in 'neutral'
  3. Jul 11 01:14:47 <Sy> I wonder if Goku in particular is such a big boost or all cores will be like that
  4. Jul 11 01:14:50 <iro> !!!!!!!!!!!
  5. Jul 11 01:14:52 <iro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPV7SHQ1fXI
  6. Jul 11 01:14:58 <Sy> well, I'll find out by accumulating more
  7. Jul 11 01:15:02 <iro> an angel put a rip of the audio up
  8. Jul 11 01:15:08 <Rin> *smiles*
  9. Jul 11 01:15:10 <iro> i'm so stoked right now
  10. Jul 11 01:15:15 <Jiyu> is your physical appearance generally dislikeable?
  11. Jul 11 01:15:42 <Rin> somewhat, moreso in combination with various other things
  12. Jul 11 01:16:16 <Jiyu> try it in the neutral
  13. Jul 11 01:16:24 <Rin> k
  14. Jul 11 01:16:47 <Jiyu> combine with things like your dresses/fishnets but when thinking about 'people without direct prejudices'
  15. Jul 11 01:17:37 <Jiyu> for instance, there are a lot of people who won't stress you ABOUT wearing what you wear, but they won't understand it or appreciate it or think you look particularly good in it, right?
  16. Jul 11 01:18:36 <Rin> if i look like this and carry on within others' 'expectations' of a male my age, it's mostly fine, but when i start to combine it with 'flamboyant', or 'motherly, i like that!', or dancing, or irrelevant stuff, i see myself as becoming a lot more dislikable
  17. Jul 11 01:18:40 <Rin> than either on their own
  18. Jul 11 01:18:57 <Mika> django....unchained
  19. Jul 11 01:18:58 <Jiyu> k, adjust then according to whatever point you can handle
  20. Jul 11 01:19:01 <Rin> k
  21. Jul 11 01:20:50 <Rin> do i stay at 'positive' level until i can successfully defend everything, or just until i fill out all i can defend at the moment?
  22. Jul 11 01:21:08 <Sy> oh, btw Jiyu, I think my earlier semantics argument with Django might've counted for my training in explining stuff peoperly (even though I was really bad at it).
  23. Jul 11 01:21:14 <Liesl> their a thing up on earlier
  24. Jul 11 01:21:20 <Marie> I used their laptop at this game
  25. Jul 11 01:21:21 <Jiyu> mhm, Sy
  26. Jul 11 01:21:35 <Jiyu> I don't understand the question, Rin
  27. Jul 11 01:21:50 <Rin> like, the dress thing, i have heavy negativities around that
  28. Jul 11 01:21:53 <Jiyu> oh, sorry
  29. Jul 11 01:22:00 <Rin> though i guess it IS just against random people...
  30. Jul 11 01:22:02 <Jiyu> right but the dress thing isn't actually positive about you
  31. Jul 11 01:22:12 <Sy> I wish I'd stop getting angry at people and thinking mean stuff in such arguments... getting hot-headed is fine, but not like that
  32. Jul 11 01:22:13 <Jiyu> I thought you were asking if you should do that now, in which case it'd be no
  33. Jul 11 01:22:15 <Sy> oh well
  34. Jul 11 01:22:31 <Sy> at least it goes away instantly after the argument
  35. Jul 11 01:22:47 <Jiyu> at best, dresses are neutral-disliked in normal company
  36. Jul 11 01:22:54 <Jiyu> and neutral-neutral in here
  37. Jul 11 01:23:10 <Rin> meh, then i don't even know what counts as 'positive'
  38. Jul 11 01:23:29 <Jiyu> things that definitely improve you
  39. Jul 11 01:23:35 <Rin> oh
  40. Jul 11 01:23:42 <Jiyu> but are not necessarily things other people like
  41. Jul 11 01:23:45 <Jiyu> for example
  42. Jul 11 01:23:47 <Jiyu> once again
  43. Jul 11 01:23:55 <Jiyu> "I like taking care of animals and plants!"
  44. Jul 11 01:23:59 <Jiyu> "mk whatever."
  45. Jul 11 01:24:02 <Sy> I love what happened a few weeks ago in the sub
  46. Jul 11 01:24:18 <Sy> I met a former classmate, someone I got along with fairly well
  47. Jul 11 01:24:26 <Jiyu> you said this sort of thing bothers you emotionally, right?
  48. Jul 11 01:24:32 <Jiyu> when you care about something good and no one else does?
  49. Jul 11 01:24:46 <Sy> and she saw me reding a Harry Potter book. I just do that, I've lost count of how many times I read them
  50. Jul 11 01:25:01 <Rin> vaguely?
  51. Jul 11 01:25:02 <Sy> I'm aware people are prejudiced against them, esp for my age
  52. Jul 11 01:25:06 <Sy> and she was too
  53. Jul 11 01:25:18 <Sy> avoided reading them, only saw some of the movies
  54. Jul 11 01:25:22 <iro> Mika, what is your power level?
  55. Jul 11 01:25:32 <Sy> so I started talking enthusiasrtically about it
  56. Jul 11 01:25:40 <Mika> 3 mil
  57. Jul 11 01:25:47 <iro> seems about right
  58. Jul 11 01:25:51 <Sy> she liked Hermione and I told her how much cooler Hermione gets later
  59. Jul 11 01:25:59 <Sy> and by the end of the conversation
  60. Jul 11 01:26:13 <Sy> she was finding reasons NOT to read the books herself
  61. Jul 11 01:26:15 <Sy> hehe
  62. Jul 11 01:26:28 <Rin> oh, that's positive-neutral...
  63. Jul 11 01:26:29 <Liesl> I don't register was the diablost + searing wave is not matter what should me
  64. Jul 11 01:26:51 <Rin> but that i think hurts me on a more general level
  65. Jul 11 01:27:26 <Sy> and I remembered how I'd have reacted years ago when faced with the same prejudice
  66. Jul 11 01:27:28 <Sy> "
  67. Jul 11 01:27:32 <iro> In a way, Mika feels similar to Bell back then to me
  68. Jul 11 01:27:35 <iro> not sure in what way
  69. Jul 11 01:27:51 <Rin> like "they don't care about you..."
  70. Jul 11 01:27:55 <Sy> I'd have cowered back in my shell instead of going "hey you should totally check out this awesome thing"
  71. Jul 11 01:28:00 <Jiyu> that's precisely the point, Rin
  72. Jul 11 01:28:08 <Jiyu> I don't care about you
  73. Jul 11 01:28:11 <Jiyu> there's no 'you' to care about.
  74. Jul 11 01:28:15 <Jiyu> So why would I?
  75. Jul 11 01:28:32 <Jiyu> I care FOR you, it's an action I take
  76. Jul 11 01:29:30 <Rin> but i think it's a demon
  77. Jul 11 01:29:42 <Jiyu> that's ok you can fight demons related to this.
  78. Jul 11 01:29:46 <Rin> k
  79. Jul 11 01:30:12 <Jiyu> that's kind of what part of the defending is about, right?
  80. Jul 11 01:30:20 <Jiyu> not only defending your right to be certain ways
  81. Jul 11 01:30:28 <Jiyu> You already have lots of ways to do that, some unhealthy
  82. Jul 11 01:31:12 <iro> maybe i'm just arrogant, but my instincts tell me 3 mil is a low bar
  83. Jul 11 01:31:32 <Sy> but yeah, that story popped in my head as a fortunate example of cured anxiety
  84. Jul 11 01:31:42 <Sy> iro, yes ans no
  85. Jul 11 01:32:01 <Sy> 3 mil is a point where you can take care of yourself pretty well, I heard
  86. Jul 11 01:32:03 <Jiyu> a low bar?
  87. Jul 11 01:32:10 <Sy> but there are big issues above that
  88. Jul 11 01:32:18 <Jiyu> the Dalai lama is about 120 million
  89. Jul 11 01:32:22 <iro> seems like, if you weren't fucked up as a kid, 3 mil is just a naturally state to be in as an adult
  90. Jul 11 01:32:26 <Sy> oh wow
  91. Jul 11 01:32:27 <Jiyu> Alexander the Great, from history, we estimate at 12 million
  92. Jul 11 01:32:31 <Sy> can I meet him
  93. Jul 11 01:32:44 <Mika> huh?
  94. Jul 11 01:32:49 <Mika> how ~_~
  95. Jul 11 01:32:54 <Jiyu> how to which?
  96. Jul 11 01:33:00 <Mika> i guess when aristotle is literally your fucking teacher
  97. Jul 11 01:33:05 <Marie> teacher antics annoy them
  98. Jul 11 01:33:06 <Jiyu> y'think?
  99. Jul 11 01:33:09 <Mika> its kinda hard not to ~_~
  100. Jul 11 01:33:29 <Mika> that and he had this whole 'nah imma keep going' thing ~_~
  101. Jul 11 01:33:35 <Mika> so ok i guess i can see it a bit
  102. Jul 11 01:33:53 <Mika> something something caesar weeping infront of a statue of alexander
  103. Jul 11 01:33:59 <Sy> imma be Sy the Great
  104. Jul 11 01:34:02 <Sy> btu first
  105. Jul 11 01:34:03 <Mika> ha
  106. Jul 11 01:34:04 <Marie> found weeping infront of justice cards of any reason
  107. Jul 11 01:34:06 * Sy is now known as Sy[Isaac]
  108. Jul 11 01:34:07 <Mika> alright.
  109. Jul 11 01:35:07 <Sy[Isaac]> hmm
  110. Jul 11 01:35:13 <Jiyu> but actually yes
  111. Jul 11 01:35:22 <Jiyu> adults should be about 3 million by age 20
  112. Jul 11 01:35:28 <Jiyu> 6 million by age 26 or so
  113. Jul 11 01:35:33 <Sy[Isaac]> looking "around", there's plwnty of direction to go to find cores
  114. Jul 11 01:35:48 <Jiyu> but the world is hostile so I don't think anyone would ask that of people anymore
  115. Jul 11 01:36:00 <Mika> anymore?
  116. Jul 11 01:36:39 <Jiyu> Greece, Persia, Egypt, China, ruling or citizen classes
  117. Jul 11 01:36:51 <Mika> hum
  118. Jul 11 01:36:56 <Kyuukei> oh, Rin
  119. Jul 11 01:37:09 <Kyuukei> in terms of music, you might like the Japanese group Flow (they are one of my favorites)
  120. Jul 11 01:37:14 <Kyuukei> Aluto is also good
  121. Jul 11 01:37:16 <Rin> k, ty
  122. Jul 11 01:37:26 <Rin> Jiyu, i'm struggling with "<Jiyu> there's no 'you' to care about."
  123. Jul 11 01:37:29 <Kyuukei> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUH9S44D1BM
  124. Jul 11 01:37:41 <Jiyu> do you feel like there's a 'you' to care about?
  125. Jul 11 01:37:56 <Jiyu> by the time you pass this point, nearly everything about the current you will be vaporized
  126. Jul 11 01:37:57 <iro> what were the specifics of 6ml's capabilities again?
  127. Jul 11 01:38:02 <Jiyu> so it's not like it matters
  128. Jul 11 01:38:07 <Rin> k
  129. Jul 11 01:38:29 <Rin> then... how the fuck am i supposed to defend something about myself...
  130. Jul 11 01:38:47 <Jiyu> at 6m you are fully merged with your Symbol-Self and basically immune to all effects below 'despair' and 'betrayal' in terms of taking lasting damage
  131. Jul 11 01:38:47 <Gem> in such as me
  132. Jul 11 01:39:23 <iro> what exactly is symbol-self?
  133. Jul 11 01:41:05 <Jiyu> right now you are mostly a product of your brain functions and complexes
  134. Jul 11 01:41:19 <Jiyu> there's the underlying self where your preferences come from
  135. Jul 11 01:41:30 <Jiyu> that gets filtered through that
  136. Jul 11 01:41:44 <Jiyu> the symbol-self is that
  137. Jul 11 01:42:09 <iro> why is it 'symbol'?
  138. Jul 11 01:42:55 <iro> a symbolic self sounds quite static
  139. Jul 11 01:43:02 <Jiyu> correct
  140. Jul 11 01:43:04 <Jiyu> completely static
  141. Jul 11 01:43:26 <Mika> or if your vinu static in more than one way lol
  142. Jul 11 01:43:30 <iro> this is the point where i didn't agree with you back then
  143. Jul 11 01:43:33 <Jiyu> yep
  144. Jul 11 01:43:40 <Jiyu> and I don't expect you will now, you're still too small
  145. Jul 11 01:43:48 <Jiyu> therefore, not much point in discussing it
  146. Jul 11 01:43:48 <Vinu> I am static in many ways.
  147. Jul 11 01:43:58 <Vinu> bzzt.
  148. Jul 11 01:44:07 <iro> not so sure about that
  149. Jul 11 01:44:23 <Jiyu> I am though. However if you feel like thinking through it by yourself it might work
  150. Jul 11 01:44:32 <iro> i have had experience that shook my material view of existence
  151. Jul 11 01:44:42 <Jiyu> it's just that your complexes ARE based around things like 'resisting change induced by the thoughts of others'
  152. Jul 11 01:44:52 <Jiyu> and your element amplifies that
  153. Jul 11 01:44:59 <Jiyu> so talking to ME won't help.
  154. Jul 11 01:45:44 <iro> mm, you realize that was quite a long time ago right?
  155. Jul 11 01:45:52 <Jiyu> and?
  156. Jul 11 01:45:59 <iro> that simply isn't true now
  157. Jul 11 01:46:18 <Jiyu> ok
  158. Jul 11 01:46:23 <Jiyu> so then there's nothing to discuss anyway
  159. Jul 11 01:46:48 <Jiyu> <iro> why is it 'symbol'?
  160. Jul 11 01:46:49 <Jiyu> a symbolic self sounds quite static
  161. Jul 11 01:46:49 <Jiyu> <Jiyu> correct
  162. Jul 11 01:46:49 <Jiyu> completely static
  163. Jul 11 01:46:55 <Jiyu> should be enough, right?
  164. Jul 11 01:46:55 <Gem> I be because there is why
  165. Jul 11 01:46:58 <iro> yep
  166. Jul 11 01:47:11 <Jiyu> then why did you ask it?
  167. Jul 11 01:47:22 <iro> hm
  168. Jul 11 01:47:40 <iro> i'm not sure whether it's actually static
  169. Jul 11 01:48:29 <Jiyu> ah
  170. Jul 11 01:50:04 <iro> it's not based on some 'i don't want to be in a definite state', but rather, if it's actually what it is, how can it be static as if it were material?
  171. Jul 11 01:50:33 <iro> seems quite counter-intuitive
  172. Jul 11 01:50:47 <Jiyu> The concept of a flaming longsword standing in a sand dune
  173. Jul 11 01:50:50 <Jiyu> will always be that.
  174. Jul 11 01:50:54 <Jiyu> there is no reason for it to change
  175. Jul 11 01:51:54 <iro> there are no variables in a concept, huh
  176. Jul 11 01:52:01 <iro> i can see it i suppose
  177. Jul 11 01:52:10 <Jiyu> if it varied it would BE a different concept
  178. Jul 11 01:52:27 <Jiyu> it's not to say that one thing couldn't change into another, but moreso to say that it's not 'turtles all the way down'
  179. Jul 11 01:52:32 <Rin> is this vaporization thing like death?
  180. Jul 11 01:52:48 <Sy[Isaac]> I love that expression
  181. Jul 11 01:52:49 <Jiyu> no Rin, it's more like how a caterpillar isn't a butterfly
  182. Jul 11 01:52:52 <Sy[Isaac]> /isaac
  183. Jul 11 01:53:36 <Jiyu> at some point, if an entity stops responding to external impetus by changing
  184. Jul 11 01:53:41 <Jiyu> it will only change due to some internal drive
  185. Jul 11 01:54:01 <Jiyu> assuming the internal drives of entities have a point where they stop being random and shifty
  186. Jul 11 01:54:08 <Jiyu> THAT point, having no 'deeper drive'
  187. Jul 11 01:54:10 <Jiyu> doesn't change.
  188. Jul 11 01:55:17 <Jiyu> that's about where 6 million is
  189. Jul 11 01:55:56 <iro> it's not very interesting then
  190. Jul 11 01:56:05 <iro> whats the method so i can get this out of the way?
  191. Jul 11 01:56:11 <Jiyu> get what out of the way?
  192. Jul 11 01:56:18 <iro> fusing
  193. Jul 11 01:56:30 <Jiyu> fusing?
  194. Jul 11 01:56:44 <iro> 'merging with the symbol-self'
  195. Jul 11 01:56:54 <Jiyu> get it out of the way?
  196. Jul 11 01:57:03 <iro> it's just a step right?
  197. Jul 11 01:57:06 <Jiyu> nope
  198. Jul 11 01:57:12 <Jiyu> it is the ultimate form
  199. Jul 11 01:57:24 <Jiyu> everything after that is... difficult to explain to someone who hasn't done it.
  200. Jul 11 01:58:00 <iro> ultimate seems kinda too-far of a term to use, but since i haven't, i'll take your word for it
  201. Jul 11 01:58:13 <Jiyu> in terms of 'forms'
  202. Jul 11 01:58:15 <Jiyu> it's ultimate
  203. Jul 11 01:58:20 <Jiyu> the form doesn't change after that, by definition
  204. Jul 11 01:58:24 <iro> mm
  205. Jul 11 01:58:26 <Jiyu> just gets bigger
  206. Jul 11 01:58:35 <iro> ah
  207. Jul 11 01:58:40 <Marie> ah found a replacement
  208. Jul 11 01:59:21 <iro> i should finish destroying this old friend i've been carrying around first
  209. Jul 11 01:59:25 <iro> or is it that i have to?
  210. Jul 11 01:59:35 <iro> hm
  211. Jul 11 02:00:02 <iro> i guess for me, i don't see these things as linear, but perhaps merging wouldn't be possible in an oblivion
  212. Jul 11 02:00:18 <Jiyu> Things are linear by their nature
  213. Jul 11 02:00:33 <iro> true
  214. Jul 11 02:00:36 <Jiyu> one will always progress to two, and then to three
  215. Jul 11 02:00:45 <Jiyu> whether we dislike the terms one, two, and three
  216. Jul 11 02:00:49 <Jiyu> doesn't change that
  217. Jul 11 02:01:07 <Jiyu> and people disagreeing on the labels also won't
  218. Jul 11 02:01:31 <iro> is that a jab at me? heh
  219. Jul 11 02:01:44 <Jiyu> 'jab'?
  220. Jul 11 02:01:49 * Django has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  221. Jul 11 02:01:59 <iro> i remember looking down on you giving labels to these things
  222. Jul 11 02:02:04 <iro> forgive me for assuming
  223. Jul 11 02:02:10 <Jiyu> oh, in that sense yes
  224. Jul 11 02:02:25 <Jiyu> but I usually think of 'jab' as an 'intentional' thing
  225. Jul 11 02:02:29 <iro> ah
  226. Jul 11 02:02:33 * Django (~cgiirc@PM-bvivvi.ph.cox.net) has joined
  227. Jul 11 02:02:35 <Jiyu> in the sense of 'trying to provoke an emotion'
  228. Jul 11 02:02:44 <Jiyu> If you are wrong about something
  229. Jul 11 02:02:53 <Jiyu> I will remind you about that whenever it is relevant to conversation
  230. Jul 11 02:03:07 <Django> trying to scroll up and read only to be automatically scrolled back down off new text! i really need to remember mIRC..
  231. Jul 11 02:03:25 <Django> heh
  232. Jul 11 02:03:30 <Rin> do you have auto logs Django
  233. Jul 11 02:03:34 <Jiyu> it comes from the fact that
  234. Jul 11 02:03:44 <Jiyu> there are people who dislike labels and resist the labeling systems of others
  235. Jul 11 02:03:46 <Liesl> I just weird part is a story without a deep snow for are going to stop joking
  236. Jul 11 02:03:54 <Jiyu> but offer no alternative that would lead to clear communication
  237. Jul 11 02:04:03 <iro> i just don't care about that anymore
  238. Jul 11 02:04:14 <Jiyu> usually due to their perception that the other side of the argument is more interested in the labels than in the thing itself
  239. Jul 11 02:04:21 <iro> mm
  240. Jul 11 02:04:27 <Django> i have a technology handicap, i know what those words mean but i have no idea what it means, haha
  241. Jul 11 02:04:36 <Jiyu> but this is a divergence
  242. Jul 11 02:04:39 <Rin> one sec
  243. Jul 11 02:04:41 <Jiyu> you don't see these things as linear
  244. Jul 11 02:04:45 <Jiyu> they are linear
  245. Jul 11 02:04:51 <Jiyu> that's all
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