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iavatus

Joo? No, Jos!

iavatus
Nov 23rd, 2015
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  1. Nov 24 08:39:37 <promo> *hear omg
  2. Nov 24 08:41:04 <iavatus> So, Jos. hate to be a one-note pony about this, but well. Being noisy about it is the only way that stuff seems to get done. We've had, precisely zero response from GAB, about any of this. About the bannings, about the atrocious behaviour of PD in Axioms and other cases, about this latest drama (not-so-fondly referred to as the Raperman Cycles), about one member of staff and his cronies bullying and harassing other members of
  3. Nov 24 08:41:04 <iavatus> staff. About all this stuff, to be honest.
  4. Nov 24 08:42:09 <iavatus> The only responses, have been to blame me, and the people who are noisy about this, for making it difficult for them to get stuff done, or whatever other flimsy excuses.
  5. Nov 24 08:42:16 <iavatus> I quote "The demands that we codify everything has turned into the case that no specific rule exists banning this and the law of unintended consequences has arisen from the recent vilification our dept has gotten on the forum"
  6. Nov 24 08:42:21 <promo> Yeah, it was kinda hard to explain to my friend who just started playing
  7. Nov 24 08:43:18 <iavatus> I'm terribly sorry, but blaming us for bringing to light and attention, one departments bad behaviour? And trying to pin all the problems on that? That's simply unacceptable, unprofessional
  8. Nov 24 08:44:08 <iavatus> Me, I log into this game to have fun. To have to kick arse loudly to stop bullying, harassment, bad behaviour? That's not fun, that's work, and disgusting.
  9. Nov 24 08:44:52 <promo> :(
  10. Nov 24 08:44:54 <iavatus> So, there's my stance, and soap box. Sorry if you just wanted to come in and chill, but, well. This is 2 months later, and there's been no real action or communication.
  11. Nov 24 08:47:36 <iavatus> I could go further into point, counterpoint, argument, discussion, and debate. But, the other side refuses to come to the table, refuses to listen, refuses to act in good faith. It's hard to come to a reasonable solution, when every statement is seen through a lens of "Dirty cheating lying player, who must never know the hidden rules because they'll find ways to get around them"
  12. Nov 24 08:47:44 <joo> jos is now regretting that he wished for more activity.
  13. Nov 24 08:48:07 * You are now known as Ivy-CanOfWorms
  14. Nov 24 08:48:21 * Smierdzacy is now known as Czyscioszek
  15. Nov 24 08:50:00 <promo> :/
  16. Nov 24 08:50:11 <jos> :)
  17. Nov 24 08:50:20 <jos> one sec, need to read back now ;-)
  18. Nov 24 08:51:09 * Darci ([email protected]) has joined
  19. Nov 24 08:51:59 <jos> Ivy-CanOfWorms: for me the problem is that I am not really engaged anymore at all with the game
  20. Nov 24 08:52:29 <jos> to give a fair assessment and solid response, I would have to spend hours delving into old debates, discussing it with different people, reading PD case files, etc. etc.
  21. Nov 24 08:52:38 <jos> I genuinely don't have time for that at all
  22. Nov 24 08:52:49 <Ivy-CanOfWorms> Unfortunately, I understand and appreciate that.
  23. Nov 24 08:52:51 <jos> so I really am not sure what to do
  24. Nov 24 08:52:59 <Ivy-CanOfWorms> And yes, wouldn't ask you to jump in on my say-so.
  25. Nov 24 08:52:59 <wiro> Maybe you should find someone who does, but I imagine finding an objective party is difficult
  26. Nov 24 08:53:18 <Ivy-CanOfWorms> But, how about the other parties, that you know, who have gone through all this, that you trust, that might have the time to do so
  27. Nov 24 08:53:21 * You are now known as Ivy
  28. Nov 24 08:53:29 <jos> yes, the people that are a bit more distanced are usually so because they are too busy with other things themselves
  29. Nov 24 08:54:00 <Ivy> TBH, it's a game. It should come second to RL :D
  30. Nov 24 08:54:18 <Darci> What? Cantr is Lyfe. Lol
  31. Nov 24 08:54:21 <jos> I've read that quote five times now, but I don't understand it, btw :)
  32. Nov 24 08:54:47 <Ivy> Neither do I. It's an odd quote, but that is it in entirety and context.
  33. Nov 24 08:54:54 <Ivy> Imagine how I felt!
  34. Nov 24 08:54:59 <jos> :)
  35. Nov 24 08:55:26 <Ivy> But, what I guess he's saying, is that all these mean words on the forum, made it difficult to step in and fix a problem?
  36. Nov 24 08:55:37 <joo> Let me see if I can guess who wrote it. Was it Alladinsane?
  37. Nov 24 08:55:40 <Ivy> I don't particularly understand how that makes sense, but it's the only reason.
  38. Nov 24 08:56:33 <Ivy> I dunno. There's some serious problems in staff, and rooting them out would take a shitload of time.
  39. Nov 24 08:56:41 <promo> I feel like getting bogged down in getting upset over 'name-calling' does nothing and just wastes time without dealing with the problem
  40. Nov 24 08:56:52 <promo> Never, not once, has asking someone to "just calm down" worked.
  41. Nov 24 08:57:35 <Ivy> I'd like to ask of you, to spend the time, but it's nearly a bottomless pit of time, dealing with this sort of thing.
  42. Nov 24 08:57:35 <jos> yes, Ivy, and the staff members that are accused of the most wrongdoing - whether reasonable or not - are also the ones that put most effort and time in their staff role
  43. Nov 24 08:57:44 <wiro> There's a lot I have to say about P. and F., but Seko got kicked out for doing that in a public channel. I'm not sure how that was ever justified, but other staff members didn't see the problems I did with treating someone like that and then acting surprised when they respond.
  44. Nov 24 08:57:50 <jos> so you'd want to be really very certain that something is going wrong before you would take very serious action
  45. Nov 24 08:57:59 <jos> but it's nearly impossible to prove things properly
  46. Nov 24 08:58:05 <Ivy> Yes, that's one claim. That the person involved does a lot. However, that exact same person, has *driven* away staff.
  47. Nov 24 08:58:17 <wiro> On that note, seko is one of the most active staff members, and that wasn't taken into consideration when they bullied her and then kicked her out for getting pissed off.
  48. Nov 24 08:58:27 <Ivy> So, in net, that's about even, at the most optimistic.
  49. Nov 24 08:58:31 <Ivy> Most likely, a loss.
  50. Nov 24 08:58:44 <promo> I applied to RD
  51. Nov 24 08:58:54 <Ivy> I left RD, over this. So I could state my opinions, not as a staff member, but as a player.
  52. Nov 24 08:58:57 <Darci> Seko is the biggest loss to staff in as long as I can remember.
  53. Nov 24 08:59:14 <Ivy> I've applied to PD, but apparently "This Department handles very delicate and sensitive information that needs to be treated with the utmost confidentiality and respect since affects the game of the players, and your behavior in recent events against the staff has been the reason to conclude in a lack of confidence on you to handle this information from a viewpoint totally objective and confidential."
  54. Nov 24 08:59:23 <Darci> Hearin she was bullied out was so surprising to me. But there's proof in that.
  55. Nov 24 08:59:41 <Ivy> Unfortuantely, the PD department does not behave in a delicate manner, a sensitive manner, a respectful manner, nor an objective manner.
  56. Nov 24 08:59:42 <jos> who wrote that, Ivy?
  57. Nov 24 09:00:22 <joo> That was an impressive run-on sentence.
  58. Nov 24 09:00:32 <Ivy> It wasn't too bad, was it?
  59. Nov 24 09:00:44 <Ivy> And, it even made sense!
  60. Nov 24 09:01:03 * carrot has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  61. Nov 24 09:01:18 <Ivy> So again, my apologies for going on, and on about this.
  62. Nov 24 09:01:29 <Ivy> Nobody should have to deal with this. But we, as players, do.
  63. Nov 24 09:02:11 <Ivy> Frequently. ANy time we *possibly* infringe any of the rules, we are treated like we're guilty, and have to prove innocence.
  64. Nov 24 09:02:22 <Ivy> Without communication, guidelines, or respect.
  65. Nov 24 09:02:34 <Darci> Ivy I think you missed his question
  66. Nov 24 09:02:48 <Ivy> No, I Pm'd the answer :3
  67. Nov 24 09:02:56 <Darci> Ah.
  68. Nov 24 09:02:59 <Ivy> Cause, y'know, a degree of privacy.
  69. Nov 24 09:03:07 <Darci> Mmhm
  70. Nov 24 09:03:21 <promo> I think an open discussion without fear of reprisal could be good
  71. Nov 24 09:03:30 <promo> I know that's why some people are afraid to speak
  72. Nov 24 09:03:42 <promo> Because they know their opinions will be held against them
  73. Nov 24 09:03:46 <jos> oh, I didn't see the PM - sorry :) ... I'll check now
  74. Nov 24 09:04:08 <promo> And what Ivy got, to me is insane, because PD needs to be incredibly diverse viewpoints
  75. Nov 24 09:04:19 <Darci> Promo, that's exactly right. It took me forever to speak out.
  76. Nov 24 09:04:22 * Masterpiece has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  77. Nov 24 09:04:26 <Darci> And I paid for it.
  78. Nov 24 09:04:38 <Ivy> Heh. That's the thing that gets me. It's a forum, for a game.
  79. Nov 24 09:04:55 <Ivy> Not something to get angry, or miffed about, or hold grudges.
  80. Nov 24 09:06:18 * Darci is now known as Rebs
  81. Nov 24 09:08:43 * Marian ([email protected]) has joined
  82. Nov 24 09:09:37 <jos> anyway, I'll try later this week to have another look at where the discussion stopped ... there was a discussion in the GAB on the issue, but I don't know whether any conclusions were reached
  83. Nov 24 09:09:52 <jos> it's a very complicated situation, though
  84. Nov 24 09:10:11 <wiro> what about the seko case? that's not as complicated as far as I know
  85. Nov 24 09:10:23 <Rebs> ^
  86. Nov 24 09:11:07 * You are now known as iavatus
  87. Nov 24 09:11:14 <wiro> two people pushing someone until they responded, then saying "ha, you said something back, off you go" and then summarily booted in the behind
  88. Nov 24 09:11:46 <jos> I'll look into it later ...
  89. Nov 24 09:12:03 <jos> if I can find the time :)
  90. Nov 24 09:12:09 <jos> ok, I'm off now ... nice chatting to you guys!
  91. Nov 24 09:12:16 <Rebs> Bye Jos.
  92. Nov 24 09:12:17 <joo> Goodbye.
  93. Nov 24 09:12:22 * jos has quit (...)
  94. Nov 24 09:12:23 <iavatus> o/ jos.
  95. Nov 24 09:12:25 <iavatus> Bugger!
  96. Nov 24 09:12:28 <Rebs> Well then.
  97. Nov 24 09:12:31 <wiro> :)
  98. Nov 24 09:12:40 <wiro> :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))splat
  99. Nov 24 09:12:49 <Rebs> Yeah
  100. Nov 24 09:12:49 <iavatus> Foooof! Well, that was unexpected, indeed.
  101. Nov 24 09:12:53 <joo> There was your chance.
  102. Nov 24 09:13:03 <Rebs> How'd that happen?
  103. Nov 24 09:13:16 <iavatus> THE PLANETS ALIGNED
  104. Nov 24 09:13:20 <joo> How did he come in here? He does, occasionally.
  105. Nov 24 09:13:23 <iavatus> And thus, he had a moment to jump in.
  106. Nov 24 09:13:46 <joo> Usually when he is feeling nostalgic for the atmosphere of IRC, apparently.
  107. Nov 24 09:13:56 <joo> Only this time, he got more of the atmosphere of the forum.
  108. Nov 24 09:14:38 <iavatus> *snorts* Atmosphere of IRC is about that of a graveyard.
  109. Nov 24 09:15:30 <iavatus> Damn it. I hate being noticed by the higher ups, means I have to act with decorum, and dignity and less snarkiness. Like, snarking at people.
  110. Nov 24 09:15:48 <Rebs> How much did I miss.
  111. Nov 24 09:15:58 <wiro> so uh i guess we go back to being quiet now
  112. Nov 24 09:16:05 <wiro> :>
  113. Nov 24 09:16:17 <iavatus> uhhh, not a huge amount. Mostly me getting on the soapbox, and loudly yelling.
  114. Nov 24 09:16:25 <Rebs> Same old, then.
  115. Nov 24 09:16:33 <joo> Heh.
  116. Nov 24 09:16:33 <iavatus> Unless there was even more before I rocked up :3
  117. Nov 24 09:16:36 <Rebs> Only with jos in the stands.
  118. Nov 24 09:17:37 <Rebs> Well I'm going back to bed before work. Just heard he was here and thought I'd pop in.
  119. Nov 24 09:17:44 <iavatus> Heh. Night!
  120. Nov 24 09:18:07 * Rebs has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  121. Nov 24 09:19:24 <wiro> pop in more like crash
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