---» z1haze ([email protected]) has Joined #computercraft
 <z1haze> hello, im trying reallly hard to detect movement events and block break events for turtles so that more server will start allowing full use of computercraft so it doesnt bypass protections
 <z1haze> are there honestly no events created from turtle movements or turtle block breaks?
 <z1haze> also, are turtles run by a fake player? computercraft? i think at one point it was
 »» Katielyn|away is now known as Katielyn
 »» Cranium[Away] is now known as Cranium
 <+Cranium> there are no forge block break events in this version. iirc, there were plans for forge to add block break events, but at the tune cc updated, they weren't implemented
 <+Cranium> not sure if they exist at this time in forge
 <+Cranium> at the time*
 »» Adam01 is now known as Adam01|Away
 <+Cranium> but computercraft has no support for bukkit events
 <z1haze> what is the reason for this?
 <z1haze> its limiting its own success
 <@AmandaC> because it’s not a bukkit plugin
 <ShadowKatStudios> CC is closed source and has a release cycle of about once a year is why, too.
 <Alissa> We've bever supported Bukkit, that I recall.
 <+Cranium> bukkit tends to cause serious problems with a majority of mods it interacts with
 <z1haze> i understand that. but that being said. this restricts servers from using computer craft due to its lack of support for grief prevention
 <ShadowKatStudios> z1haze, check out OpenComputers next time.
 <+Cranium> Alissa: 1.47 was the last bukkit version
 »» @AmandaC baps ShadowKatStudios
 <z1haze> Im not trying to cause any trouble, I just know there are tons of servers and thousands of players who would love to see computer craft unrestricted in servers
 <@AmandaC> z1haze: the plan is to hook into an existing one, when one comes about for Forge
 <z1haze> all we need is a simple event created on turtle actions
 <z1haze> that wouldnt be hard at all for you to do
 <+Cranium> that's a fair point, but the devs don't want to have to support a buggy platform
 <ShadowKatStudios> Not happy with competition, AmandaC?
 <Caitlyn> Blood PRed Blockbreak events into forge late in 1.6, and afaik they've been in 1.7 for ages
 <@AmandaC> ShadowKatStudios: bear. poke. don’t.
 <ShadowKatStudios> z1haze: Like I said, release cycle of once a year.
 »» @AmandaC sighs
 »» @AmandaC wanders off
 »» AmandaC gives channel operator status to Cranium
 <z1haze> how about a patch?
 <@AmandaC> Cranium: have fun, keep the kids in line
 <ShadowKatStudios> glhf
 <z1haze> when was the last release? considering its january now
 <@Cranium> competition is fine, ShadowKatStudios, but the oc community hasn't exactly been welcoming
 <z1haze> I would be more than happy to make the mod/plugin that adds in protections for factiosn and griefprevention
 <z1haze> i just need something to hook into
 <ShadowKatStudios> Oct 9
 <ShadowKatStudios> Nor has the CC community, Cranium.
 <@Cranium> z1haze: you're welcome to modify your own installation, as long as you don't redistribute the modified files
 <z1haze> its obfuscated
 <z1haze> obviously
 <z1haze> lol i cant compile it
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 <Temia> Maybe a fork of OC is in order
 <Caitlyn> You can decomp/deobf cc with little issue, and recomp is pretty straight forward.
 <Caitlyn> but you still can't distro it
 <Temia> Because holy crap no kidding about OC's community.
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 <z1haze> ok thank you would be able to explain how to go about the decompile and deobfuscate
 <Caitlyn> BON.
 <ShadowKatStudios> I miss the purpose of an OC fork, why not just- ah. Funny, considering who started the mutual... dislikre.
 «--- awweaver ([email protected]) has Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 <ShadowKatStudios> dislike*
 <Temia> moo? .-.
 <z1haze> because my issue is i can decompile it, but im still getting the obfuscated minecraft stuff... can you tell me the software or function to do this?
 <z1haze> jd gui is what ive used
 <z1haze> and all of the minecraft functions are still obfuscated
 <Caitlyn> Bearded Octo Nemesis, no I'm not kidding
 <Caitlyn> that's what it's called
 <Caitlyn> it deobfuscates mods
 <Ender> sounds like a github generated name
 <z1haze> oh haha
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 <Caitlyn> Ender, it is
 <z1haze> so that decompiles and deopfuscates?
 <Caitlyn> If you can find it BON2 is better... but I can never remember who made it...
 <Caitlyn> And googling BON2 is next to useless
 <z1haze> so theres a version 2?
 <Caitlyn> https://github.com/Parker8283/BON2/releases
 <Caitlyn> I lied.
 <Caitlyn> BON2 github worked :P
 <z1haze> google is a wonderful thing
 <z1haze> so just to clarify, this will decomile and deobfuscate
 <Caitlyn> Yes.
 <Caitlyn> well, it'll deobf
 <Caitlyn> IDK if it still decomps
 <Caitlyn> but decomp is easy
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 <ImMe> Thefuckisthisshit
 ---» Dashkal ([email protected]) has Joined #computercraft
 <ImMe> srsly
 <ImMe> the fuck is this shit
 <z1haze> Caitlyn im trying to avoid any legal issues here - legally am I allowed to create and redistribute a mod that would inject into the cc?
 <@Cranium> there's a cc api
 <Caitlyn> You can not distro any CC code.
 <ImMe> z1haze: the fuck is this
 <@Cranium> but yeah, no to distro cc code
 <Caitlyn> If you write a coremod that hooks into CC... I don't think there is anything "bad" about that... but I doubt people will be happy..
 <z1haze> right but I want to inject my own code for create events
 <z1haze> i just want to beenfit the community
 <@Cranium> I don't think that would cause a problem...
 <ImMe> http://media.giphy.com/media/NpxCApHPckxz2/giphy.gif
 <@AmandaC> ImMe: having fun?
 <ImMe> AmandaC: I'm just asking what this is
 <@Cranium> was about to call for you
 <ImMe> I aint getting no response
 <@Cranium> you're not telling us what you're asking about
 <@AmandaC> ImMe: this is a channel for a Minecraft mod called ComputerCraft.
 <ImMe> Thanks
 <@AmandaC> Cranium: I have you a hat, at least temporarily. :P
 <@AmandaC> anyway, I’m going back to redesigning ddna.net
 <@Cranium> what about a hat?
 <@Cranium> oh
 »» Temia would honestly be tempted to fork OC to make a version more in line with CC's principles, herself. After all, changing the direction is what forking's all about <.<
 <@Cranium> :/
 <z1haze> im going to figure this out :P
 <z1haze> in a good mood now.. just its something ive not quite done before, injecting etc
 <Temia> OpenOffice vs. LibreOffice, etc.
 <SkySom> That's not the best example afaik.
 <@Cranium> I'd certainly be interested in seeing what you come up with, z1haze
 <Temia> It isn't, but it's the one I have off the top of my head
 <z1haze> me too
 <Temia> I've been dealing with outfitting a laptop for an educational environment, office software may have been on my mind for a while :P
 <Temia> (getting a combination of a decent eBook reader and DRM-free textbooks has been more of one admittedly, and also a dismal failure)
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 <ShadowKatStudios> Cranium, care elaborating on what's wrong with the OC community?
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 <ShadowKatStudios> ...
 «--- Ender ([email protected]) has Left #computercraft (Leaving)
 <ShadowKatStudios> *continues waiting*
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 »» Caitlyn sneezes
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 <ShadowKatStudios> So you won't elaborate, Cranium?
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 <DJZ> Hey Leo_Verto
 <+Leo_Verto> hey
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 <DJZ> do you have any recommendations for TKL mechs, Leo_Verto
 «--- CompanionCube ([email protected]) has Quit (Ping timeout: 200 seconds)
 <+Leo_Verto> some ducky maybe?
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 <+Leo_Verto> they have tkl versions of most of their boards
 ---» lexteam ([email protected]) has Joined #computercraft
 <+Leo_Verto> which span across all the price classes
 <ShadowKatStudios> ... Still waiting, Cranium
 <@Cranium> sorry, was in a meeting
 <@Cranium> and I'm not elaborating
 <ShadowKatStudios> ._.
 <@Cranium> because I'd rather not get into a long heated discussion while I'm at work
 <ShadowKatStudios> We will finish this another time then.
 <@Cranium> let's not
 <@Cranium> you seem intent on starting an argument
 »» ShadowKatStudios just wants to know why everyone here hates us so much
 <ShadowKatStudios> And sorry, I have an argumentative disposition.
 <@Cranium> we actively try to distance ourselves from arguing about it.
 <@Cranium> we know there's discord, but want to just let it go
 <ShadowKatStudios> <insert snowman comment here>
 »» Cruor is now known as Cruor|Away
 <@Cranium> so as far as the rivalry is concerned, it's best not to discuss ur, seeing as how it usually only causes trouble to do so
 <@Cranium> s/ur/it
 <DJZ> Leo_Verto, i was thinking a cm storm quickfire rapid
 <Temia> Really, it'd be best if there was a way we could establish a contiguous level of cooperativity between the two communities
 <ShadowKatStudios> I'm just curious as to why everyone here hates us, but whatever.

* Loaded log from Tue Jan 13 15:19:30 2015

»» Now talking on #computercraft
»» Topic for #computercraft is: ComputerCraft: http://www.computercraft.info/ | Latest release: 1.65 for Minecraft 1.7.10 | Buy Dan's new game: http://dan200.itch.io/redirection | It should go without saying: Don’t be a dick. | Don't ask to ask. Be patient.
»» Topic for #computercraft set by [email protected] at Fri Dec 26 18:26:17 2014
<Temia> I've seen a bit of elitism out of some members of the OC community, myself .-.
<+Leo_Verto> are we referring to the debate on CC/OC?
<+Leo_Verto> oh we are
<Temia> The argumentativeness you displayed is also fairly common
<DJZ> yeah
<ShadowKatStudios> reminder: spheres in Minecraft are impossible
«--- Weylyn (~Weylyn@2001:983:874b:1:cd6e:d6e8:b619:91d8) has Quit (Quit: Leaving)
<Temia> But then again internet.
<ShadowKatStudios> Welcome to 4chan..?
<Temia> SKS: We'll do it Mario 64 style -- circular sprites! :V
<+Leo_Verto> DJZ, have you decided on switches yet?
<Temia> 4chan is hardly the ideal standard to hold to for the internet in any case.
<ShadowKatStudios> Indeed.
<DJZ> mx reds
<Temia> That's actually what I'm afraid of now if I do fork OC for a simpler implementation -- further divisiveness, borne from both communities digging their heels in stubbornly when I try to make a bridge .w.;
<Temia> I mean I'd leave it wholly compatible with OpenOS in any case but if there isn't already a CC VM available for OC I'd like to work that into the design too.
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: sphere aren't really more impossible than in most other games
<+Leo_Verto> DJZ, hmm the lightest switch afaik, you'll be bottoming out most of the time
<Temia> or just a CC compatibility layer or whatever
<+Leo_Verto> but they trigger even at a light tap, if that's what you're looking for
»» Katielyn is now known as Katielyn|away
<ShadowKatStudios> The CC API isn't hugely different, really.
<DJZ> anyway
<DJZ> what's wrong with oc
<Inari> nothing :p
<+Leo_Verto> does OC provide integration with mods or do they provide integration with OC?
<Temia> Recipe overcomplexity that defies the Minecraft crafting philosophy
<ShadowKatStudios> You tell me, I can't get an answer from anyone here
<Inari> Leo_Verto: both
<Temia> That's my main problem with OC itself
»» Katielyn|away is now known as Katielyn
<+Leo_Verto> OC is too greg for me to use in survival
<Temia> The other problem I had was already addressed as of build 313, apparently
<Temia> Yeah. Greg.
<Temia> That is exactly the word that sums it up.
<ShadowKatStudios> So change the recipes
<Temia> That doesn't change much in multiplayer servers is the thing
<Temia> If you change them in SSP you may as well just toss your own determined materials cost into a fire and then /give one
<ShadowKatStudios> So the admins should change the recipes?
<Temia> I admit I haven't looked into the mod in too much detail, but is it actually possible to redefine the crafting recipes without the use of an external tweaking mod?
<ShadowKatStudios> Yeah.
<Caitlyn> yes.
<Temia> alright then!
<DJZ> i didnt even know it existed before today
<Temia> That's my other main problem dropped, it's only just a slight annoyance that there's no widely-accepted EASY MODO recipe list yet .-.
<ShadowKatStudios> Reminder: OC looks so hard because CC is unbelieveably easy
<Temia> No, OC looks hard because Minecraft Vanilla is reasonably simple :P
<Dashkal> Most mods look 'hard' by that metric...
<DJZ> lmao
<ShadowKatStudios> Look at other mods, though.
<DJZ> true
<Temia> Not really.
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: the "Reminder" part is unnecessary :p
<DJZ> should i learn dvorak or not
<ShadowKatStudios> omg all mods are greg!!!!1!!one1
<Temia> If all mods are IndustrialCraft and Gregtech, then I don't know what game you're playing <_<
<+Leo_Verto> CC is great for introducing people - especially younger ones - to programming, as shown by CCedu
<+Leo_Verto> OC is really only viable if you already have sufficient knowledge
<Temia> But yeah, I've seen reasonable mod recipe implementation in things like TE, MFR (though it admittedly has a notable difference in material tiers), and so on
<DJZ> Leo_Verto,
<Temia> Admittedly, if we're teaching children how to code, I think a Raspberry Pi is a better investment .-.
<ShadowKatStudios> So why is CC better for introducing people?
<DJZ> ^^^
<ShadowKatStudios> They're both lua
<Inari> i think the issue i have with CC (and partially OC too) is that it ends up being pretty useless for MC itself in the end
<+Leo_Verto> Temia, I disagree, programming in CC can show immediate results
<+Leo_Verto> you write a line of code, run it and something happens
<Temia> So can Python
<Temia> :P
<+Leo_Verto> a turtle moves, in the same world you're operating in
<+Leo_Verto> Minecraft already attracts children like no other game
<Inari> component.robot.move
<Temia> Okay, that degree of interaction is a little less plausible
<ShadowKatStudios> Speak for yourself, Inari, I like my intelligent storage system using drones
<Inari> well robots are lightly more complex sadly ;D
<Temia> (even if Python does have a turtle drawing API!)
<ShadowKatStudios> So why is CC better than OC for that?
»» TacoBell is now known as batman|batcave
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: thats never going to be used by anyone and probably took more time to make than just using something else xD
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: for turtles, you can program them as they run
<ShadowKatStudios> You can program robots as they run?
<ShadowKatStudios> Besidss, you can spawn preconfigured robots
<@AmandaC> You don’t want to start a child off with a very limited system, memory and disk severely crippled in use
<Gopher> skk: really? Because accessibility. You just plonk down a computer/turtle and start coding. OC has a huge amount of setup first, even if you're using creative mode.
<Gopher> I mean, I enjoy both mods
<Temia> But yeah. I just don't like mindless busywork in my recipes, really. CC has its tiering complaints due to its recipe simplicity (at least include some iron or something) and OC practically requires a factory mod or else you'll be stuck doing several overlapping recipes one by one
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: how? @ robots as they run
<Gopher> but on that specific application? cc definitely has the advantage
<Dashkal> Odd use case to argue.  For an EDU style environment, I'd just rejigger the recipes in OC.
<ShadowKatStudios> A screen and a keyboard, Inari
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: the robot screen is very small
<ShadowKatStudios> You can run full OpenOS on a robot
<Inari> not sure if robots can have keyboards
<Dashkal> I'd probably just nuke the crafint gpart entirely and set up a vending machine.
<ShadowKatStudios> They can, inari.
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: leaves the issue of the screen being too small :D
<ShadowKatStudios> And a T1 OC screen is slightly smaller than a CC screen
<Inari> Temia: you can actually reconfigure the recipes
<ShadowKatStudios> So..?
<Temia> Yeah, that's been mentioned
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: the robots i've seen had a 10x2 screen
<Inari> orso
<Temia> I'm just talking a comparison of default configs
<Temia> Neither is really ideal IMO :p
<ShadowKatStudios> Inari: Those are drones, silly
<Inari> ShadowKatStudios: were with robots too :p
<Dashkal> Inari: 10x2?  Drones.  Intended to be weaker than robots.  Use robots.
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<Inari> then again
<Temia> That said, I might demo a simplified recipe system to some old CCers and see how they feel about it.
<Inari> i never put a screen onone i guess
<ShadowKatStudios> Nope, robots have a 40x15 screen and can have keyboard and CC stuff
<Inari> Temia: recipes dont matter much btw
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<Inari> if you're gonna use it for education you'll just spawn in the stuff mostly
<Temia> Oh, I'm not the one arguing for education use.
<ShadowKatStudios> They come with a screen, you just need a GPU and keyboard.
<Gopher> I'm a bit baffled that we seem to be arguing specifically the merits of educational use of cc versus oc
<Gopher> cc was designed in part with that in mind, but afaik oc was, y'know, not?
<Temia> We've been jumping around a lot.
»» Inari hands Temia a pogo stick
<Gopher> I would think that woudl be one very specific special case where the oc side would say "ok, granted, moving on..."
<Gopher> and that's assumign you see any virtue in arguing the relative merits /at all/
»» Temia passes it to Jesus.
<Gopher> which, tbh, I don't
<ShadowKatStudios> damnit, tablet died
<Inari> http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/1f88d78bfcdf499490af5ce34155d007/l.jpg ;o
<Temia> Honestly, if we can agree that both systems have their strengths and weaknesses and call it good, that's it.
<+Leo_Verto> I kinda feel like these discussions always end in OC users trying to prove OC better in every single aspect
<Temia> We can all go home happy
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<ShadowKatStudios> So why does everyone here hate us, then?
<ShadowKatStudios> That's all I came to find out.
<Temia> Hasn't that already been answered?
<Inari> Leo_Verto:  i'd be fine with FTB acknowleding OC ;D
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<Gopher> because by all appearances you set out to make a mod to directly challenge and displace comptuercraft? lol
<+Leo_Verto> ohh, dat prejudice tho
<Temia> Albeit each answer has been argued to the point of banging one's head against the wall
<Gopher> I mean, really, that one should be bloody obvious XD
<ShadowKatStudios> Gopher: Did Linux displace Windows? Not yet.
<Temia> Linux largely displaced System V though :V
<Gopher> nothing objectively wrong with it, but that's not gonna stop people from having ruffled feathers
<ShadowKatStudios> *cough* Cloudy *cough*
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<Temia> Which is really sort of what Linux set out to do
<DJZ> God damn it!
<DJZ> Everyone shut up
<Temia> It just kind of ended up in a katamari of GNU nonsense
<DJZ> This isn't #ocvscc
<@AmandaC> Linux is a fork of Unix which was made as a college project by Linus. It was not designed with the sole purpose of displacing DOS. :P
<Temia> (I wonder if anyone's done BSD/Linux...)
<Gopher> skk, I said "by all appearances."
<Gopher> People react to appearances, not realities.
<Gopher> That will never, ever change.
<@AmandaC> wait no
<@AmandaC> Minix, not Unix
<Inari> i cuqesiton if OC was "made to displace CC"
<Temia> Well, System V wasn't exactly interesting to Linus either
<Gopher> Though I must say, skk
<Inari> doesnt make sense to me
<Inari> more like, someoen wanted more from their computers
<Inari> so they made a mod that fits better for htem
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»» NyanServ gives voice to immibis
<Gopher> I can think of no motive for you to come to #cc and have this argument if your goal is not to displace cc by convincing everyone oc is superior in every way :P
<ShadowKatStudios> OC was made so you could have proper OSes and all that wasted creativity
<Temia> ARGH
»» Mast3rPlan is now known as Mast3rPlan|Away
<Temia> Okay, guys?
<Gopher> an impression strongly reinforced by your need to argue even on the specific educational context
<Temia> We're all human
<Temia> There is no underlying diabolical motive
<ShadowKatStudios> Gopher: I came here because someone asked about protection on a server
<Inari> Gopher: eh, the main point i saw is that people here tend to be overyl sensitive when it comes to OC
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<@AmandaC> Inari: my main problem is this: “How do I do X in CC” “You don’t use OC” which frequently comes from some people who pop in here. That’s not an answer.
»» Temia adds a comma
<Inari> haha
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<ShadowKatStudios> http://xkcd.com/386/ Relevant
<Inari> well, yeah
<@AmandaC> Inari: that’s like “How do I use a screwdriver?” “You don’t use a hammer”
»» Inari hands Temia another comma
»» Temia passes it to Amanda
»» @AmandaC chews on it before losing interest, and going back to contemplating how to fluff up a website some more
<Temia> Proper formatting is what separates "I helped my uncle Jack" etc etc.
»» ShadowKatStudios pokes the AmandaC in a similar way someone would poke a bear
»» @AmandaC sighs
<@AmandaC> !kickban ShadowKatStudios I gave you a chance. Come back in an hour
»» NyanServ sets ban on *!*@chocolate.paranoidlabs.org
»» NyanServ has kicked ShadowKatStudios from #computercraft ((AmandaC) I gave you a chance. Come back in an hour)
<@AmandaC> someone remind me to lift that