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Pokemon Distros and Area Concepts

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  1. [10:06:32 AM] EJ: Since we’re taking our sweet ass time getting mapping and programming done
  2. [10:06:43 AM] EJ: Convince me why reopening pokemon distribution for the next demo is a bad idea
  3. [10:06:57 AM] Kyrox: huh?
  4. [10:07:03 AM] EJ: For example
  5. [10:07:07 AM] EJ: Rocano goes in Tremol Mines
  6. [10:07:09 AM] EJ: Coal pokemon
  7. [10:07:11 AM] EJ: Coal mine
  8. [10:07:23 AM] EJ: Intended to be perfect for foliat players and Foster
  9. [10:07:33 AM] EJ: That was a factor in having Tremol be a coal mine place
  10. [10:08:01 AM] Kyrox: wait, haven't we reopened that already?
  11. [10:08:04 AM] EJ: Nope
  12. [10:08:10 AM] EJ: Apparently, it’s more work
  13. [10:08:18 AM] Kyrox: wtf
  14. [10:08:20 AM] EJ: Yet, we’re not doing anything that prevents work
  15. [10:08:28 AM] EJ: We have issues with low level evolutions
  16. [10:08:33 AM] EJ: We have a problem with route diversity
  17. [10:08:34 AM] Kyrox: we're trying to balance the game, we need to do that
  18. [10:08:44 AM] EJ: Furthermore
  19. [10:08:52 AM] EJ: We can get creative with routes and pokemon
  20. [10:08:59 AM] Kyrox: who thinks it's a bad idea?
  21. [10:09:06 AM] EJ: Aside from the usual characters
  22. [10:09:09 AM] EJ: Thread usually poops on it
  23. [10:09:44 AM] EJ: But we could get some interesting routes
  24. [10:10:16 AM] EJ: Pueblant evolves at 18, throw it near some early ruins or a trade
  25. [10:10:24 AM] EJ: How do we get Chayan whom evolves at 25?
  26. [10:10:33 AM] EJ: Magnitogre is popular for an OW encounter
  27. [10:10:49 AM] EJ: Another thing I was thinking about
  28. [10:11:03 AM] EJ: At what point is champ supposed to be decided as being involved in plot or not
  29. [10:11:18 AM] EJ: Because I haven’t seen anything that would dictate the champ being involved in plot
  30. [10:11:35 AM] Kyrox: I hope it's not
  31. [10:11:56 AM] EJ: That’s why we’re waiting to do the champ concept though
  32. [10:12:04 AM] EJ: So I’m hoping some people can elaborate these things for me
  33. [10:12:15 AM] EJ: and convince me why we shouldn’t redo route distributions
  34. [10:12:51 AM] EJ: We can actually work on things instead of circlejerking over the usual bs
  35. [10:12:54 AM] EJ: Because as it stands
  36. [10:12:58 AM] EJ: We dont have many artists left
  37. [10:13:06 AM] EJ: Otherwise the threads would have been filled with designs for gym leaders
  38. [10:14:06 AM] empty: Route distro not being reopened is usually supported by the "Fuck you, it was surveyed." argument, which is one you heavily espouse.
  39. [10:14:18 AM] EJ: It was surveyed yeah
  40. [10:14:20 AM] EJ: But I mean
  41. [10:14:29 AM] EJ: Are we able to survey it again
  42. [10:14:43 AM] EJ: And as I understand it, wasn’t Nondell the only submission for that?
  43. [10:14:45 AM] EJ: I’m asking
  44. [10:14:47 AM] EJ: Not arguing
  45. [10:14:47 AM | Edited 10:14:55 AM] empty: "We don't resurvey things."
  46. [10:15:45 AM] Kyrox: it was confirmed for previous demo
  47. [10:15:54 AM] EJ: So it’s not the end all
  48. [10:16:03 AM] empty: I don't remember if the submission itself was made by Nondell but I think he handled the whole thing. The one that won was made predominantly by two people, in two rounds, with thread feedback.
  49. [10:16:09 AM] Kyrox: but it's always susceptible to changes due to balance issues
  50. [10:16:20 AM] Kyrox: foliat is an issue
  51. [10:16:38 AM] empty: We can't do shit until the demo is released unless you genuinely want to redo it correctly.
  52. [10:16:51 AM] EJ: Personally
  53. [10:16:57 AM] EJ: I genuinely want to redo it correctly
  54. [10:17:16 AM] EJ: Rocano is also a big factor
  55. [10:17:28 AM] empty: Which is a good thing that we should do, but you have to realize that makes you a hypocrite.
  56. [10:17:29 AM] EJ: That’s a fire type that changes the name of the game for the ice gym and the steel gym
  57. [10:17:29 AM] Kyrox: maybe not reopening it all
  58. [10:17:35 AM] EJ: But that’s why I ask
  59. [10:17:46 AM] Kyrox: but a survey where people can submit issues would be great
  60. [10:17:48 AM] EJ: Because I’m not sure why we didn’t
  61. [10:17:54 AM] Kyrox: and then a follow up
  62. [10:17:59 AM] Kyrox: where we decide
  63. [10:18:30 AM] EJ: I have an idea
  64. [10:18:37 AM] EJ: Rather than do this dance
  65. [10:19:02 AM] EJ: Why not derive a list of early game candidates
  66. [10:19:17 AM] Kyrox: what?
  67. [10:21:12 AM] Kyrox: don't bully the dunk, empty, he's sensitive today
  68. [10:23:12 AM] empty: Issues that we didn't address when we confirmed that list: There are pokemon who are very intertwined with specific locations. There are pokemon designed to fit into a certain part of the game progression. The idea that pokemon location and everything that entails (evo levels, base exp, specific moves in the set intended to enhance game experience at first encounter, trainer usage) being fluid and changeable is contrived and false from a practical development standpoint. The evo levels we currently have are fucked. Day, dawn and night exist and need to be utilized. Pokémon distribution needs to take balance (foliat users, presence of a steel gym nearby, etc.) into account.
  69. [10:23:16 AM] empty: We did it shitty.
  70. [10:23:32 AM] empty: But it was done and it'll be hard to convince people to redo it.
  71. [10:24:46 AM] EJ: People don’t know intended locations either
  72. [10:24:54 AM] EJ: Which leads me to why we should hammer through this shit
  73. [10:25:08 AM] EJ: Or at least hammer down intangibles like that
  74. [10:25:11 AM] empty: To be fair the number of pokemon who are location dependent is relatively small.
  75. [10:25:21 AM] empty: but they do exist
  76. [10:25:30 AM] EJ: We also have a deficiency of creativity
  77. [10:25:35 AM] EJ: And a lack of subareas
  78. [10:25:46 AM] EJ: Like alpint
  79. [10:26:05 AM] empty: Route 7. Chopped trees route. It'd be fun.
  80. [10:26:24 AM] EJ: Remember the forest in BW/B2W2 where Zoroark lived in that van
  81. [10:26:29 AM] Kyrox: [10:23 AM] empty:
  82.  
  83. <<< Pokémon distribution needs to take balance (foliat users, presence of a steel gym nearby, etc.) into account.right after programming, that's the top priority, so there's zero problem
  84. [10:26:37 AM] EJ: and there was that secondary area where you could find different mons
  85. [10:26:43 AM] EJ: or the lower area to the Dreamyard
  86. [10:26:53 AM] EJ: We don’t have anything like that
  87. [10:27:02 AM] Kyrox: [10:25 AM] EJ:
  88.  
  89. <<< And a lack of subareasjesus christ dunky, we want to make it smaller, not larger
  90. [10:27:08 AM] empty: The bureaucratization and segmentation of the game development doesn't allow us to take that as a top priority kyrox. That is a problem.
  91. [10:27:14 AM] EJ: Rustled Forest could have a secondary area where you find the Green Forusk
  92. [10:27:17 AM] EJ: Shit like that
  93. [10:27:32 AM] empty: This stuff should be heavily intertwined with map creation and area concept development, but it isn't.
  94. [10:27:52 AM] EJ: Which I think, moving forward
  95. [10:27:54 AM] EJ: We should do
  96. [10:28:02 AM] EJ: You know what’s great about mangroves and cenotes and fire swamps
  97. [10:28:07 AM] EJ: Instead of a generic forest
  98. [10:28:10 AM] EJ: or a generic surf route
  99. [10:28:17 AM] EJ: we can put all kinds of pokemon there
  100. [10:28:22 AM] EJ: >fire swamp
  101. [10:28:26 AM] EJ: oh shit low level wispern
  102. [10:28:34 AM] EJ: Do you know how biodiverse mangrove forests are
  103. [10:28:42 AM] empty: Not very?
  104. [10:28:46 AM] EJ: Ohhhhhh no
  105. [10:28:50 AM] EJ: Diverse as fuck
  106. [10:28:51 AM] EJ: birds
  107. [10:28:54 AM] EJ: otters
  108. [10:28:55 AM] EJ: small mammals
  109. [10:28:58 AM] EJ: all kinds of reptiles
  110. [10:29:01 AM] EJ: fish out the wazoo
  111. [10:29:05 AM] EJ: monkeys
  112. [10:29:15 AM] EJ: mangrove forests are incredibly diverse
  113. [10:29:37 AM] empty: Oh shit. Fire swamp is the perfect place to first put monkezuma line
  114. [10:29:45 AM] empty: next to jungle of course
  115. [10:29:53 AM] EJ: Who is to say that the route east of Staccato doesn’t take place along the cliffside filled with seabirds and small animals, then turns to surfing
  116. [10:30:00 AM] EJ: Yeah
  117. [10:30:04 AM] Kyrox: just open a last demo distribution BALANCE ISSUES survey already
  118. [10:30:22 AM] EJ: Chayan is a gift pokemon
  119. [10:30:24 AM] EJ: Randomized gender
  120. [10:30:24 AM] empty: What "last demo"?
  121. [10:30:35 AM] Kyrox: current demo
  122. [10:30:39 AM] EJ: You want more balance?
  123. [10:30:43 AM] EJ: Route south of Legato
  124. [10:30:47 AM] Kyrox: so we fix it on the next one
  125. [10:30:51 AM] EJ: Mangroves connected to fire swamp
  126. [10:30:56 AM] EJ: oh shit nigga, look, monkeys
  127. [10:31:02 AM] EJ: birds
  128. [10:31:17 AM] EJ: We need to get creative with shit
  129. [10:31:22 AM] EJ: Otherwise people will be breeding to get their faves
  130. [10:31:29 AM] empty: We can't fix balance until we actually finish the demo and at that point it is extremely difficult and arguably too late. Plus balance only encompasses a narrow range of the issues we have
  131. [10:31:39 AM] EJ: So moving forward
  132. [10:31:46 AM] EJ: We need to be really fucking awesome with our ideas for routes
  133. [10:31:59 AM] EJ: We missed an opportunity with that route east of Dronia
  134. [10:32:23 AM] empty: 9?
  135. [10:32:26 AM] EJ: mhm
  136. [10:32:30 AM] empty: why?
  137. [10:32:31 AM] EJ: the second part with the campgrounds
  138. [10:32:33 AM] EJ: that’s fine
  139. [10:32:34 AM] Kyrox: have we changed last demo distribution already or not?
  140. [10:32:38 AM] empty: oh, 10
  141. [10:32:40 AM] EJ: but the early part, it’s just forests and streams
  142. [10:32:55 AM] empty: We changed last demo with nondell's this demo.
  143. [10:33:00 AM] EJ: mhm
  144. [10:33:18 AM] Kyrox: I mean for the upcoming demo
  145. [10:33:22 AM] EJ: Too late man
  146. [10:33:30 AM] Kyrox: have we?
  147. [10:33:39 AM] empty: yeah, Nondell's shitty one
  148. [10:33:43 AM] EJ: well
  149. [10:33:44 AM] EJ: not shitty
  150. [10:33:50 AM] EJ: it’s really the only one we have
  151. [10:33:57 AM] Kyrox: please link
  152. [10:34:09 AM] EJ: look at the routes on the wiki
  153. [10:34:14 AM] empty: that we decided independently of everything else, without taking anything anything else into account, before the maps were made
  154. [10:34:23 AM] EJ: at the time
  155. [10:34:28 AM] EJ: we thought maps would go faster
  156. [10:34:30 AM] EJ: speaking of
  157. [10:34:40 AM] EJ: why haven’t we started mapping other routes or andante gym
  158. [10:36:11 AM] EJ: I know how we can get Cobrascet early on
  159. [10:36:32 AM] EJ: down by Dronia docks
  160. [10:36:38 AM] EJ: we put some Cobrascet pots
  161. [10:36:41 AM] EJ: some red herring pots
  162. [10:36:44 AM] EJ: actually
  163. [10:36:47 AM] EJ: all red herring pots
  164. [10:36:53 AM] EJ: and one cobrascet pot
  165. [10:36:54 AM] empty: Andante Gym: No tiles, nobody who maps gives a shit about gyms. Other routes: We still have waterfall cave, downward cave and route 9 to retiles. We still have dacapo-quaver to post demo change. We still have 4,5,6,7 to continuity check. We still have quaver-andante to limbo space adjust. We still have andante to runoff. We still have 3 other maps to survey at all.
  166. [10:37:24 AM] EJ: how can we get that going
  167. [10:37:32 AM] empty: It is going.
  168. [10:38:11 AM] Kyrox: at what pace?
  169. [10:38:17 AM] empty: "Doing maps." isn't a simple process. It is by far one of the most consuming processes around.
  170. [10:38:51 AM] EJ: Never said it was
  171. [10:38:59 AM] Kyrox: I know
  172. [10:39:03 AM] EJ: Just looking to see if there’s anything that can be done to speed up the process
  173. [10:39:07 AM] empty: It's moving along and has been moving along for around 8 months now. The biggest issue is starting to officialise a process for stuff. Content is less of an issue.
  174. [10:39:23 AM] EJ: At the rate we are going now
  175. [10:39:27 AM] EJ: When do you anticipate being done
  176. [10:39:55 AM] empty: i.e we have almost every map done updating for the last demo but none of it has been put through a procedure
  177. [10:40:03 AM] empty: Probably 2 months
  178. [10:40:29 AM] EJ: what can we do in the meantime
  179. [10:40:33 AM] EJ: make map and area concepts?
  180. [10:41:17 AM] empty: With regards to maps? You could map house interiors, which we put through the process of "QB makes them then sends them to Pawter."
  181. [10:41:21 AM] empty: They're easy as fuck
  182. [10:41:44 AM] EJ: to someone who can’t map
  183. [10:41:53 AM] EJ: also >mac
  184. [10:42:01 AM] Kyrox: contrary to majora's belief, advancing in several fileds is productive
  185. [10:42:09 AM] Kyrox: >mac
  186. [10:42:13 AM] EJ: Dude
  187. [10:42:14 AM] empty: Try to win over the project to reopen encounters.
  188. [10:42:20 AM] EJ: I got it through school
  189. [10:42:27 AM] EJ: And it’s the first laptop I’ve had since May 2013
  190. [10:42:36 AM] EJ: Empty
  191. [10:42:39 AM] EJ: I had an idea
  192. [10:42:46 AM] EJ: What if the sea route north of dronia was cold
  193. [10:42:49 AM] EJ: and had icebergs
  194. [10:43:14 AM] empty: It's a nice idea but we don't really have cold climate water pokemon
  195. [10:43:24 AM] EJ: well
  196. [10:43:36 AM] EJ: our surfing pokes aren’t much anyways
  197. [10:43:43 AM] EJ: glocto is kinda warm
  198. [10:43:52 AM] Kyrox: [10:42 AM] empty:
  199.  
  200. <<< Try to win over the project to reopen encounters.no, if they have been voted for the next demo, no
  201. [10:43:59 AM] EJ: we can asspull nurshary like greenland shark
  202. [10:44:05 AM] EJ: no slugs
  203. [10:44:06 AM] empty: It'd be nice for Lavoon/glocto and a good way to introduce and integrate an Ahab sidequest.
  204. [10:44:22 AM] EJ: also draggar
  205. [10:44:42 AM] EJ: plus we could use ice flows instead of sand for land
  206. [10:44:50 AM] EJ: and icebergs instead of rocks to stymie progress
  207. [10:44:57 AM] Kyrox: Important question!
  208. [10:45:25 AM] Kyrox: how are we going to handle levels on sidequests?
  209. [10:45:37 AM] empty: White lavoon sidequest with Ahab to the sunken ship on route 8 is a good way to tie together sidequests/popular NPCs/a location we have with no concept (sunken ship)/ pokemon distributions. It's the kind of integrity in planning we need
  210. [10:45:49 AM] empty: poorly and not directly at all kyrox
  211. [10:45:53 AM] Kyrox: are they going to be only doable at a certain point?
  212. [10:46:00 AM] EJ: well
  213. [10:46:07 AM] EJ: think back to regular games with sidequests
  214. [10:46:11 AM] EJ: they either scale in leveling
  215. [10:46:14 AM] EJ: or stay the same level
  216. [10:46:27 AM] Kyrox: how would we scale?
  217. [10:46:27 AM] EJ: if you go back to the dreamdery ranch
  218. [10:46:31 AM] EJ: at 8 badges
  219. [10:46:39 AM] EJ: and help with a farmer who is having sleep issues
  220. [10:46:47 AM] EJ: would you expect a level 70 Macabra
  221. [10:46:50 AM] EJ: or Dreamdery
  222. [10:46:58 AM] EJ: It’s been around since you beat Foster
  223. [10:47:16 AM] empty: It's been hitting the gym in your absence.
  224. [10:47:28 AM] EJ: But what if it lost all its gains
  225. [10:47:37 AM] EJ: Wait
  226. [10:47:38 AM] EJ: It’s on a farm
  227. [10:47:39 AM] EJ: nvm
  228. [10:47:42 AM] EJ: It’s got squats and oats
  229. [10:47:52 AM] empty: Tbh Macabra is the most gainsless pokemon we have. It's stickman the mon.
  230. [10:48:03 AM] EJ: Carnibal beats it
  231. [10:48:07 AM] EJ: It’s stickman the concept
  232. [10:48:10 AM] EJ: the mon
  233. [10:48:11 AM] Kyrox: can we please focus on the actual issue?
  234. [10:48:22 AM] EJ: I’m in favor of non-level scaling
  235. [10:48:24 AM] empty: Why? We can't fix it.
  236. [10:48:38 AM] Kyrox: ?
  237. [10:48:45 AM] EJ: I.e. if you come back later
  238. [10:48:49 AM] EJ: the levels remained the same
  239. [10:48:52 AM] EJ: then again
  240. [10:48:55 AM] EJ: it’d really depend on the sidequest
  241. [10:49:16 AM] empty: Ooh, I know what you could do. Start surveying dreamdery ranch sidequest
  242. [10:49:30 AM] EJ: I’d prefer if someone else take the reigns on that
  243. [10:49:36 AM] EJ: All bullshitting aside
  244. [10:49:40 AM] Kyrox: that's why pokémon don't have sidequests
  245. [10:49:48 AM] EJ: I’m a bit spread thin to be taking on long survey chains
  246. [10:49:51 AM] EJ: Well that’s not accurate
  247. [10:49:54 AM | Edited 10:49:57 AM] EJ: They do have sidequests
  248. [10:50:00 AM] EJ: Shoal Cave
  249. [10:50:05 AM] EJ: Mt. Mortar
  250. [10:50:14 AM] EJ: Iron Island
  251. [10:50:18 AM] empty: I'd hazard to say most sidequests are mon-centric
  252. [10:50:20 AM] EJ: MooMoo Milk Farm
  253. [10:50:32 AM] EJ: Snorlax near Vermillion City
  254. [10:51:05 AM] SNS: Sea Mauville best sidequest
  255. [10:51:22 AM] EJ: Shit like that
  256. [10:51:26 AM] EJ: In any case
  257. [10:51:34 AM] EJ: Most people haven’t submitted many sidequests
  258. [10:51:46 AM] EJ: Would it be better if we submitted route concepts?
  259. [10:53:15 AM | Edited 10:53:20 AM] empty: I'd personally like a completely non binding route concept process where we vote conceptualize and develop concepts for routes and end up with a top 3 and a wealth of discussion to act as a background for mapping in the future. An impetus to develop the region. Nonbinding though
  260. [10:54:21 AM] SNS: If we did that idea
  261. [10:54:51 AM] SNS: Theres nothing really stopping us from just sending it out right now, right?
  262. [10:55:02 AM] SNS: After we ironed out the survey that is
  263. [10:55:15 AM] EJ: Nothing holding back at all
  264. [10:55:15 AM] empty: It'd be nice to get the project back to the creativity phase and I think it'd help.
  265. [10:55:20 AM] EJ: amen
  266. [10:55:21 AM] EJ: AMEN
  267. [10:55:23 AM] EJ: AFUCKINGMEN
  268. [10:55:27 AM] SNS: Fuck it Im game
  269. [10:55:29 AM] EJ: creativity phase was fun
  270. [10:55:32 AM] EJ: creativity phase was exciting
  271. [10:55:37 AM] EJ: we bring that back
  272. [10:55:39 AM] EJ: ho boy
  273. [10:55:42 AM] EJ: HOOOOOOOOOOO BOYYYYYY
  274. [10:55:49 AM] empty: Nothing stopping it at all but I'd like it to be much more than a survey. Get people to actually discuss shit instead of just submit shit
  275. [10:56:04 AM] SNS: Yeah of course
  276. [10:56:27 AM] Kyrox: :)
  277. [10:56:34 AM] EJ: REV UP THOSE HEADCANONS
  278. [10:56:36 AM] EJ: WE’RE POSTING EM
  279. [10:56:41 AM] EJ: fyi
  280. [10:56:44 AM] EJ: this is how fire swamp came to be
  281. [10:56:49 AM] SNS: We come up with a system, hopefully as autism-proof as possible, then submit it to the thread and tell them to talk about it and submit stuff
  282. [10:57:36 AM] empty: Encourage full discussion too. Full concepts including preliminary blurbs a la the gyms, suggested mon encounters, types of trainers on the route, potential sidequests, probably map features, surrounding lore, etc.
  283. [10:58:03 AM] EJ: route 12 is hotels and stores and all tourists
  284. [10:58:09 AM] EJ: minimal pokemon, maybe in the background
  285. [10:58:19 AM] empty: Route 12 is fireswamp*
  286. [10:58:27 AM] EJ: the one next to the day care
  287. [10:58:28 AM] EJ: ?
  288. [10:58:42 AM] EJ: what if southern route 11 was fire swamp
  289. [10:58:50 AM] EJ: people built the cycling road to go over it and avoid getting lost
  290. [10:59:05 AM] empty: That could work too. It's gotta be one of 11, 12, 17 or underwater cave though
  291. [10:59:17 AM] EJ: I think 11 works for early game diversity
  292. [10:59:39 AM] EJ: Also think about how we could tie Vivace in
  293. [10:59:42 AM] empty: Wait nvm I meant, 12, 16, 17 underwater cave
  294. [11:00:14 AM | Edited 11:00:21 AM] EJ: “People who got lost in the Fire Swamp ended up in this cave. Over time, a settlement grew here. Eventually, this place became a safe haven for all who got lost in the Fire Swamp"
  295. [11:00:35 AM] EJ: Then the Cycling Road got built and it went to shit because muh monies
  296. [11:01:04 AM] EJ: Route 15 could be Savannah/Veldt/Sahel
  297. [11:01:14 AM] EJ: Perfect to find Smashiary and Baboom and other mons
  298. [11:01:21 AM] empty: We need to tie in the ecological harmony of the old cities and traditional towns to set them in contrast against the new growth that goes against the wills of Quetzar. It kinda perpetuates the false noble savage ideal of pre-Columbian new world but that's what the game is.
  299. [11:01:39 AM] EJ: Staccato is built into the cliffs
  300. [11:01:43 AM] empty: I'd tie in Vivace in that manner to the mushrooms in route 11.
  301. [11:01:52 AM] empty: Then Ossia into fireswamp in route 16
  302. [11:02:07 AM] EJ: Here’s my issue with that
  303. [11:02:12 AM] EJ: Ossia is gym 5
  304. [11:02:29 AM] EJ: Where we going to find Wisperns and shit at low levels
  305. [11:02:33 AM] EJ: That’s my issue
  306. [11:02:37 AM] EJ: I’m fine with it though
  307. [11:02:47 AM] empty: We won't. Change the evo levels. They're shit and were done blindly.
  308. [11:02:56 AM] EJ: wait aminute
  309. [11:02:59 AM] EJ: what the fuck is route 22
  310. [11:03:09 AM] Kyrox: [11:02 AM] empty:
  311.  
  312. <<< We won't. Change the evo levels. They're shit and were done blindly.
  313. [11:03:28 AM] Kyrox: yeah, lvl 80 champ can only be good
  314. [11:03:30 AM] EJ: Just going to say
  315. [11:03:31 AM] empty: Nobody knows. It's just on the map
  316. [11:03:50 AM] empty: Better question is where is route 23?
  317. [11:04:15 AM] EJ: Jungle Temple turning into a Necropolis with a cave path turning into Necropolis tombs to pop out at route 17 and super fast surf routes
  318. [11:04:33 AM] empty: and route 20
  319. [11:04:53 AM] EJ: route 20 is east of Calando
  320. [11:05:00 AM] EJ: Route 21 is north of lake temple
  321. [11:05:07 AM] empty: Majora holding the region map up as God really becomes extra retarded when you consider it was so rushed there's no route 23.
  322. [11:06:28 AM] EJ: what do you guys think about savannah/sahel/veldt for route 15
  323. [11:06:33 AM] EJ: dry and rocky
  324. [11:06:36 AM] EJ: yet still sustainable for life
  325. [11:06:58 AM] EJ: a nice transition area from west-east for jungle to desert
  326. [11:07:19 AM] empty: I see it as a transitional zone that's gotta haul a lot of ass to bridge desert and jungle in a close area. Sahel might do it
  327. [11:08:45 AM] empty: But I see it as from S-N as continuation of canyons, dry grassland, generic tree area, then who the hell knows for the far north.
  328. [11:09:04 AM] EJ: I’m thinking how meteoroligistically it’d work
  329. [11:09:18 AM] EJ: maybe moisture comes from the southwest and moves in a northeast pattern
  330. [11:09:21 AM] empty: Spoiler: It doesn't.
  331. [11:09:31 AM] EJ: hits mountains and then curves west
  332. [11:09:38 AM] EJ: so the west and central are moist and warm
  333. [11:09:49 AM] EJ: north is mountains and colder
  334. [11:09:54 AM] EJ: southeast is desert
  335. [11:10:25 AM] empty: You'd have to magic in a mountain range between route 15 and the desert and then magic in an ocean underneath the visible map. Then an air flow could approach from the "south east".
  336. [11:10:59 AM] EJ: I have an idea
  337. [11:11:14 AM] EJ: Route 15 is the result of older deforestation
  338. [11:11:21 AM] EJ: It’s literally the Sahel
  339. [11:11:29 AM] EJ: Vivace was built on the back of Route 15
  340. [11:11:33 AM] EJ: They cut down that jungle
  341. [11:11:37 AM] EJ: erosion kicked in
  342. [11:11:45 AM] EJ: Sahel
  343. [11:11:46 AM] Kyrox: for all it matters, this could be off-topic
  344. [11:11:54 AM] EJ: well considering it’s route concept building
  345. [11:11:57 AM] EJ: more on-topic really
  346. [11:12:01 AM] EJ: pitch in spaniard
  347. [11:12:07 AM] EJ: your country also has an abundance of biomes
  348. [11:12:49 AM] Kyrox: I could draw an "accurate" weather map for any shit you come up with, it's ok
  349. [11:12:53 AM] empty: "Abundance": Dry lands, orchard lands and beach lands.
  350. [11:13:06 AM] Kyrox: pfft
  351. [11:13:30 AM] EJ: What if route 15 was a gorge
  352. [11:15:06 AM] empty: That's the current south headcanon for me. I even made a map for it (it's shit though).
  353. [11:15:20 AM] EJ: Southeast being arid sounds cool
  354. [11:15:24 AM] EJ: southwest being jungle is awesome
  355. [11:15:31 AM] EJ: northcentral being full of black people
  356. [11:15:37 AM] EJ: Route 22 is literally Compton
  357. [11:15:48 AM] EJ: CJ from Grove Street guides you on a ferry to cross the river
  358. [11:15:58 AM] EJ: “ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FOLLOW THE DAMN FERRY CJ”
  359. [11:16:03 AM] EJ: ACTUALLY
  360. [11:16:03 AM] EJ: OH SHIT
  361. [11:16:20 AM] EJ: FERRY STATION AND RIVER BOAT TRIPS FOR ROUTE 22 TO OSSIA
  362. [11:16:25 AM] EJ: RIVER BOAT GAMBLING
  363. [11:17:10 AM] EJ: Don’t bring up shitbat
  364. [11:17:14 AM] EJ: it’s over and in the past
  365. [11:17:17 AM] Carson Daly: On 1/24/15, at 2:04 PM, Jabberwock xeno wrote:
  366. > So apparently maruno wants me to say publically that I won't seriously debate the nurshary thing anymore
  367.  
  368. hahahahahahahahahahahahahah what
  369. [11:17:24 AM] EJ: we’re thinking up route concepts now and being productive and having fun
  370. [11:17:28 AM] Carson Daly: sry haven't been on since yesterday afternoon but this is hysterical
  371. [11:17:45 AM] EJ: What else do you guys think
  372. [11:18:20 AM] empty: For general area concepts in the region?
  373. [11:18:24 AM] EJ: yeah!
  374. [11:18:34 AM] Dewdneym: savanna yes
  375. [11:18:36 AM] Dewdneym: hell yes
  376. [11:18:54 AM] Dewdneym: as long as we dont have any more green grassland or mountainous routes
  377. [11:18:56 AM] empty: Not much right now, we can leave the process for that mainly. I'll go make a mockup of what a hopeful end product is.
  378. [11:19:04 AM] EJ: come on man
  379. [11:19:06 AM] EJ: let’s hear headcanon
  380. [11:19:07 AM] Kyrox: savanah where?
  381. [11:19:12 AM] Dewdneym: well except for 22
  382. [11:19:13 AM] EJ: On 1/25/15, at 10:18 AM, Dewdneym wrote:
  383. > as long as we dont have any more green grassland or mountainous routes
  384.  
  385. YES
  386. [11:19:13 AM] empty: central route 15
  387. [11:19:21 AM] Dewdneym: 22 kinda has to be mountainous
  388. [11:19:32 AM] EJ: 22 being like
  389. [11:19:39 AM] EJ: maybe kinda appalachian backwoodsy
  390. [11:19:55 AM] EJ: very little development
  391. [11:19:58 AM] EJ: rural
  392. [11:20:01 AM] EJ: woodsy and damp
  393. [11:20:04 AM | Edited 11:20:08 AM] EJ: mountainous
  394. [11:20:14 AM] empty: It's going to be route 5 on steroids. Snowy mountain ascent covered in ace trainers and snowboarders/skiers. Fucking trees everywhere.
  395. [11:20:15 AM] Kyrox: 22 damp
  396. [11:20:16 AM] Kyrox: yeah
  397. [11:20:25 AM] empty: Like that route to snowpoint in sinnoh
  398. [11:20:27 AM] EJ: So then why not make it like Colorado
  399. [11:20:36 AM] empty: Since we have jack with regards to true tree routes.
  400. [11:20:43 AM] EJ: lower levels are red for iron deposits
  401. [11:20:46 AM] EJ: pine trees
  402. [11:20:49 AM] EJ: very hiker friendly
  403. [11:20:51 AM] EJ: higher you go
  404. [11:20:53 AM] EJ: MORE SNOW
  405. [11:20:55 AM] EJ: SO MUCH SNOW
  406. [11:21:00 AM] EJ: step one, you fall ins now
  407. [11:21:03 AM] EJ: wait
  408. [11:21:11 AM] empty: Fuck it, my mockup for the process is going to be route 22.
  409. [11:21:17 AM] EJ: what if we have snow routes
  410. [11:21:20 AM] EJ: where it’s just all snow
  411. [11:21:24 AM] EJ: and you walk in
  412. [11:21:27 AM] EJ: and fall through the snow
  413. [11:21:29 AM] EJ: like entirely
  414. [11:21:34 AM] EJ: and you find the real route beneath the snow
  415. [11:21:46 AM] EJ: like trainers have dug tunnels through the heavy snow
  416. [11:22:47 AM] EJ: but it’s not snow cave
  417. [11:22:57 AM] EJ: just
  418. [11:23:01 AM] EJ: straight shot snow tunnels at times
  419. [11:23:07 AM] EJ: sparse trainers
  420. [11:23:08 AM] EJ: come up
  421. [11:23:11 AM] EJ: near mountains
  422. [11:23:14 AM] EJ: trainers and mons
  423. [11:23:23 AM] EJ: but just like shitload of snow that you can beeline through
  424. [11:23:36 AM] EJ: short burst of trainers and mons
  425. [11:23:40 AM] EJ: MORE SNOW
  426. [11:23:42 AM] EJ: beeline through snow
  427. [11:23:54 AM] EJ: short burst of trainers
  428. [11:23:56 AM] EJ: beeline through snow
  429. [11:24:00 AM] Dewdneym: when you said "fall in snow" i got triggered
  430. [11:24:00 AM] EJ: hell, make this upwards cave
  431. [11:24:06 AM] Dewdneym: fucking route 217
  432. [11:24:12 AM] EJ: not like that qb
  433. [11:24:17 AM] Dewdneym: i know
  434. [11:24:17 AM] EJ: I mean like you literally
  435. [11:24:20 AM] EJ: go through snow
  436. [11:24:21 AM] Dewdneym: i realised after
  437. [11:24:28 AM] EJ: like 50 feet of snow
  438. [11:24:52 AM] EJ: and a zipline from the top to the bottom
  439. [11:24:57 AM] EJ: so you can go back to the start if you want
  440. [11:25:38 AM] swimapper: My ideal Upwards Cave has always had a lot of different sectors to it like BW2's victory road
  441. [11:25:49 AM] swimapper: Like you've got a little forest
  442. [11:25:50 AM] EJ: That’s my idea for victory road
  443. [11:25:55 AM] EJ: only glacier national park
  444. [11:25:57 AM] swimapper: and some alpine shit
  445. [11:25:58 AM] EJ: but let’s hear it man
  446. [11:26:00 AM] swimapper: maybe some ruins
  447. [11:26:05 AM] swimapper: you know, the works
  448. [11:26:24 AM] swimapper: And victory road would be glaciers and ice and HOLY FUCK SNOW
  449. [11:27:16 AM] EJ: my thing for victory road
  450. [11:27:20 AM] EJ: some dive routes
  451. [11:27:33 AM] EJ: you’re diving in the glacier and traveling through the glacier via dive routes
  452. [11:27:48 AM] EJ: get to some areas with pockets with trees and ground and people
  453. [11:27:55 AM] EJ: pop in and out
  454. [11:28:01 AM] EJ: get past the glacier and hit the mountains
  455. [11:28:16 AM] EJ: where you’re traveling along narrow paths and ziplining across massive chasms
  456. [11:28:59 AM] EJ: swim
  457. [11:29:07 AM] EJ: what’s your headcanon for route 15 and route 22
  458. [11:29:50 AM] Kyrox: wild pokémon and trainers on it
  459. [11:29:55 AM] Kyrox: that'd be great
  460. [11:30:09 AM] Dewdneym: hue
  461. [11:30:16 AM] Kyrox: for real
  462. [11:30:18 AM] Dewdneym: is 12 close enough to the water for me to have muh beach route
  463. [11:30:29 AM] swimapper: I
  464. [11:30:31 AM] swimapper: 'd say so
  465. [11:30:44 AM] swimapper: fuck why does the apostrophe have to be so close to enter
  466. [11:30:55 AM] Kyrox: well, 12 could be beach route
  467. [11:30:57 AM] Dewdneym: it
  468. [11:30:58 AM] Dewdneym: 's the worst
  469. [11:31:10 AM] Kyrox: so it's not just another 15
  470. [11:32:52 AM] swimapper: But anyways I always wanted 15 to be all torn up going along the mountains that would separate it and the desert
  471. And 22 would be straight up Louisiana bayou shit, like so far as having a shrimp shack on stilts in the middle of it with a bunch of windboats parked outside
  472. [11:33:19 AM] Dewdneym: ayyy
  473. [11:33:40 AM] Dewdneym: 11 is gonna be an ancient aztec bridge
  474. [11:34:59 AM] swimapper: http://seriesandtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/history-irt-deadliest-roads-s02e03-lisa-devil-bridge.jpg
  475. Like this is what im picturing for the overall theme of 15.
  476. Cliffs to your right, cliffs to your left, jungle down below
  477. [11:35:35 AM] Kyrox: where the fuck is 11?
  478. [11:35:41 AM] swimapper: Cycling road yo
  479. [11:36:01 AM] Kyrox: oh right
  480. [11:37:11 AM] Kyrox: and we don't need subareas
  481. [11:37:32 AM] Kyrox: with all the redundant routes we have, those will be the sub areas
  482. [11:38:27 AM] Kyrox: and with redundant I mean not plot needed
  483. [11:44:13 AM] Nimble: oh yay
  484.  
  485. I have to re-write the cycling road now . -.
  486. [11:44:49 AM] Kyrox: why?
  487. [11:51:47 AM] empty: So for submissions I'm thinking the categories are concept, encounterable mons, encounterable trainers, potential sidequests and lore. Anything else? I'm making a template so I want it complete.
  488. [11:55:34 AM] Kyrox: >lore
  489. [11:55:39 AM] Kyrox: >for a route
  490. [11:55:50 AM] Kyrox: oh god, it never ends
  491. [11:56:22 AM] swimapper: No route will have more lore than Route 13
  492. [11:56:37 AM] swimapper: With all those dive spots, it's bound to have the DEEPEST LORE
  493. [11:57:18 AM] Kyrox: heh
  494. [12:01:45 PM] empty: These are for any area. And it's intended to provide an enriching and cohesive approach to game design. Lore is anything an NPC would say about the past of a place or its place in the world.
  495. [12:02:40 PM] Kyrox: that would be the concept
  496. [12:03:50 PM] empty: Nope
  497. [12:04:41 PM] empty: I'm treating it more like the concept is whatever you see or experience.
  498. [12:25:56 PM] EJ: I could agree with this
  499. [12:26:02 PM] EJ: concept is what the route is
  500. [12:26:05 PM] EJ: lore is what happened
  501. [12:26:54 PM] EJ: Route 113 in Hoenn’s concept is that its covered in ash from Mt. Chimney
  502. [12:27:03 PM] EJ: It’s lore would be that people make flutes and glass from the ash
  503. [12:41:13 PM] empty: Well this took really fucking long to do compared to what I expected
  504. [12:42:10 PM] empty: Filled out for route 8 and sunken ship: http://i.imgur.com/4ggiOnA.png
  505. [12:42:55 PM] Dewdneym: yeee
  506. [12:43:33 PM] empty: It was just an example but I'm actually hype for route 8 after making that
  507. [12:43:46 PM] Dewdneym: i think captain ahab would be a better fit in the big ol 13 or 14
  508. [12:43:53 PM] Dewdneym: but i have no reasoning for that
  509. [12:48:34 PM] EJ: That’s fucking awesome man
  510. [12:48:40 PM] EJ: I know how we get good rod and super rod btw
  511. [12:48:51 PM] EJ: Good Rod is gotten when you surf to the mangrove tree and talk to the fisherman inside
  512. [12:48:54 PM] EJ: he’s all
  513. [12:48:58 PM] EJ: man you must really want to fish to come here
  514. [12:49:01 PM] EJ: to get super rod
  515. [12:49:09 PM] EJ: while on route 8, you’re diving about
  516. [12:49:18 PM] EJ: you find a tiny dive spot while already diving
  517. [12:49:25 PM] EJ: you come up in a fisherman’s shack via his ice fishing hole
  518. [12:49:36 PM] EJ: he’s so suprised that you wanted to fish at his super secret spot he gives you the super rod
  519. [12:53:41 PM] empty: Template: http://i.imgur.com/jzuOB23.png
  520. [12:54:44 PM] empty: So, I'm going to introduce this whole spiel to the thread. template, introduction to the idea and pastebin of this discussion?
  521. [12:55:01 PM] Dewdneym: doit
  522. [12:55:16 PM] Dewdneym: >tfw we will never move route 13 to andante
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