Thoughts on missing, but existing SM TASing resources

4n6 - Today at 1:04 AM
man that's some nice new stuff you guys found
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:04 AM
lavakiller and faster mainstreet entry
a few variations for the latter
and a frame saved before bt
but wont make it into 13% i guess
4n6 - Today at 1:15 AM
so you guys managed to save a frame before BT nice I understand not going back for 1 frame though
sniq - Today at 1:19 AM
7 frames
(before big pink)
but with cost of 1 super missile
not too good idea
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:19 AM
hm?
something new or?
sniq - Today at 1:19 AM
killing metal bat with super reduces processing
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:20 AM
ah interesting
sniq - Today at 1:20 AM
his death sounds wont play
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:20 AM
ok... question
for things like this etc you are saving the input files up to those variied parts, right?
or something like that
sniq - Today at 1:20 AM
usually yes
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:21 AM
ok for other small stuff where its not clear if it could speed things up
pls at least write it down in some .txt notes or something k?
sniq - Today at 1:21 AM
for you to beat my tas later?
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:21 AM
>_> yes?
nah... but every kind of improvement thats found would be good to have?
and not be lost again
just so someone later will/has to find it
does it really matter?
sniq - Today at 1:24 AM
improvements like what?
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:24 AM
well the things we did talk about
sniq - Today at 1:24 AM
each is implemented
except bt frame
ceres frame*
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:24 AM
and variations where its not known if it can help
sniq - Today at 1:24 AM
and metal bat super kill
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:24 AM
like skree
there was the 1 lag frame before kraid that you eliminated
like there is taco´s old inputs and your new ones
with 1 less lag frame but i guess if one wanted to "use" some lag frame in anyways, one could just make more lag during pb explosion anyways
sniq - Today at 1:26 AM
lag is obvious enough
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:26 AM
idk what kraid lag patterns you tested
sniq - Today at 1:26 AM
is it really needed to write down
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:26 AM
and drop patterns from kraid
yeah not that
so: no it isnt
but what else was there?
you should know best
hmm i dont think there wasn´t any more at kraid lair(edited)
hm i dont think there was some variation at speedbooster farming either
sniq - Today at 1:31 AM
sure if you can get rng to behave perfectly without delaying a single frame
wont happen probably
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:31 AM
well in pre lavadive room there were a few different options?
well one could waste a super or missile
to kill some enemy
and change rng
sniq - Today at 1:31 AM
not for 13%
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:31 AM
and get better drops to get ammo back or something?
sniq - Today at 1:32 AM
each drop is manipulated to be perfect already in the run
cant get better ammo back
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:32 AM
kk
sniq - Today at 1:33 AM
and for lavadive theres 3 variations all equally fast
difference is the cost of hp
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:33 AM
yeah that shouldnt matter
sniq - Today at 1:33 AM
newest diagonal spark is best
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:34 AM
bec one cold also take the fastest and just get more damaged
regarding hp
or idk what else would be different
sniq - Today at 1:34 AM
i just said all 3 are equally fast
just the newest strat costs 50 hp less or more
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:34 AM
yes but least hp one is used
sniq - Today at 1:34 AM
might have been 70 or something
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:34 AM
kk
and you got those?
sniq - Today at 1:35 AM
which?
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:35 AM
well the 3 options
sniq - Today at 1:35 AM
yes but the previous 2 dont make sense anymore
they are equally fast but cost more hp
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:35 AM
yeah i understand
well only thing is.. equally fast doesnt necessary mean same rng
bec could be longer transition or something
and since they all take same frame count
well if it wasnt as much for the hp difference
then having a few different options with same frame count but different rng
could be interesting to have
but since the hp difference is so large
not really anymore
sniq - Today at 1:37 AM
total control of rng with the use of 2 pauses
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:37 AM
yeah true
ok then those other 2 options arent as relevant anymore really
hmm
and after that...
i guess the sidehopper in wasteland, taking his drop or not
i guess now not needed anymore?
sniq - Today at 1:38 AM
cant skip it for 13%
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:38 AM
could use the inputs from where you didnt take them
sniq - Today at 1:38 AM
it is needed
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:39 AM
if you have them still
sniq - Today at 1:39 AM
costs less than 10 frames to get
5-7 if i remember right
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:39 AM
kk
but you dont need to farm as much anymore later
sniq - Today at 1:39 AM
dont make me laugh ed
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:39 AM
bec not as much hp needed, bec of new glasstube strat
sniq - Today at 1:40 AM
you dont know whats coming in maridia
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:40 AM
i do?
sniq - Today at 1:40 AM
hp is needed to do faster strats
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:40 AM
like test tas
yes but..
i mean compared to current tas up to ridley
sniq - Today at 1:40 AM
i hope you udnerstand delaying 5 frames to collect 20 hp does save 30 frames for faster strats later
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:40 AM
120hp more
thats what i mean
sniq - Today at 1:40 AM
this includes acidball and getting hit by ridley
and doing double kago
and so on
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:41 AM
yes
nothing remaining after?
sniq - Today at 1:41 AM
and spike spark
and whatever d-boosts
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:41 AM
hm ok
so basically 120hp wont change much
sniq - Today at 1:41 AM
it does
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:41 AM
bec hp will be used on norfair escape
sniq - Today at 1:41 AM
120 hp more to play with for fsater strats
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:41 AM
i mean for maridia
yes thats what im saying
sniq - Today at 1:42 AM
this includes ridley damage to reduce lag
and more d-boosts
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:42 AM
i know
well ok and the ridley part and prev room stuff will need to be redone anyways
well ok
sniq - Today at 1:42 AM
and finally the goal is to be left with 01 health at everest
or as close to that as possible
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:42 AM
yeah
also regarding a potential later tas of it with the known improvements. idk if i´d ever start tasing myself or if someone else would like to improve it, but it´d be nice in any case if some notes on potential useful promising time savers are there
at least thats what i´d do
its like... when id make some tas... for rooms there are different room strats etc
sometimes one cant test everything
but for the things that i´d test, if they are close enough together so that both could be part of thr "optimal tas" (or some better tas)
but its not clear which
and if i made inputs for both
i´d provide them on tasvid for others when i´d put the submission text if the ywanna play around
and i´d also be good for the submission itself
so that people can see that someone really not just tried 1 strat and kept it like that
but put more thought into rooms and ammo+hp managemenet and lag etc
its like... a bonus to your work and the tas
and if then someone would actually use my stuff to make an improvement
then i´d be nice to see that some more of the things i tested and resources that i provided could be put to use
it is like... reducing redundance
bec so many people probably have only provided the final strat for e.g. climb room for their tas
but did maybe test different ways to climb the room
and now every new taser
that wants to try his best in this room would also have to test those worse strats again
bec he isnt quite sure yet
but if the prev taser had provided more of the resources that he anyways had
bthen the new tasers wouldnt need to redundantly test things that have been tested beore already
and i´m sure at least 5 tasers had to check the same climb room variations redundantly so far
just bec previous tasers onyl submit the final product and not further resources which also can be very helpful
to get a better overview and comparison
and then as last part, if one would also provide alternative potentially useful room starts
they could be useful for other tas branches of the game
so idk...
its like every taser kinda has to restart from bottom
instead of having various input script resources already from former tasers
ißm sure e.g. that cpadolf must have a lot of unused good alternate room starts
and we´d jhave to find or figure out those ourself again
just bec he deleted them or kept them or w/e
=/
antimatterhorse - Today at 1:53 AM
copy paste this to tasvideos
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:53 AM
i guess i should actually
in some better format ofc
sniq - Today at 1:53 AM
book format best format
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:54 AM
bec i´d like the tasing in general with resources etc to evolve
and not always restart
its like.. you could quickly know if climbing wall in climb room is better or using ledge grab platform climb
if there were some input files for both (especialy also the worse strat) provided
bec then other people coudl see and confirm that it actually is worse
and in some cases i could even imagine
that given some "worse but alternate strat"
if someone else sees it
he could have an idea to improve it
and it could turn into the better strat, who knows
(if its sufficiently close/not too bad)
and idk why people dont do this
idk how it is with other games
like what people provide for resources
but if it is like this everywhere
that all the "almost good strats" are wasted or not provided and kinda lost
sniq - Today at 1:56 AM
it is quickly known by looking at vertical speed ram address due to walljumps having lower speed though
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:56 AM
then thats bad imho
yes in some cases
but sometimes not
you know from own experience when you had to redo rooms
when you found better strat bec of some detail
in previous rooms
antimatterhorse - Today at 1:57 AM
it is hard to find a game with more information available and resources than sm
sniq - Today at 1:57 AM
what did i find hmm
earthquake pb
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:57 AM
well door lag reduction
yeah that, some small things
sniq - Today at 1:57 AM
small mistake with door by taco
small mistake at dachora bomb wall
that was all
then kraid decided to die 6 frames faster for unknown reason
but i never found anything related to walljumps
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 1:59 AM
i mean... lets take cpadolf again. he made 100% tas, and i heavily doubt the 1st strat that he used for rooms was always the fastest so that he never had to make an alternate strat that then turned out to be faster by a bit
so if he already made the a bit worse strat beforehand
and then the better one but not by too much
i mean he already put the work into this and could easily provide it somewhere
Aran;Jaeger - Today at 2:00 AM
but if he doesnt, someone else later will have to do same test again, which is redundant and takes time and motivation
so why not provide it when its already there
thats basically the idea when i mean that you should keep or make notes of still promising alternate strats
when they are close to best strat
i could imagine that maybe just a few but still, that some more people would try out sm tasing if such things would be provided for existing tases
imagine if cpadolf had put some list of strats, maybe even late improvements that he didnt wanna build in anymore
if he´d made such list and some new taser would then have the motivation
to try out those things to improve it
i´m sure cpadolf would also like it if his stuff gets used for the new tas
bec thats then like... it is like cpadolf would partially have "indirectly" worked on the new tas aswell
not just his own older tas
or helped for the work on the new tas by providing resources