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Sawsbuck Council Discussion

shnen
Apr 21st, 2012
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  1. <@DTC> jynx or sawsbuck?
  2. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> sawsbuck
  3. [15:30] <@Steamroll> BAMBI!
  4. [15:30] <+Luck> kk saucebuck
  5. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> hmm
  6. [15:30] <@Steamroll> base 100
  7. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> this one im on the fence on
  8. [15:30] <+cbb> bambi is amazing
  9. [15:30] <@Steamroll> is really good for it :P
  10. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> its fast, chlorophyll, SD
  11. [15:30] <+cbb> it has a great speed tier, great movepool, good attack
  12. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> yeah its basically one of the fastest mons in the tier w/ SD
  13. [15:30] <+cbb> amazing stab coverage
  14. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> BUT
  15. 01[15:30] <@NatCounciling> its frail
  16. [15:31] <@Steamroll> it 2hko's regi with horn leech :O
  17. [15:31] <+Luck> also can run LO and recover
  18. [15:31] <@DTC> I think Sawsbuck is potentially broken without sun support
  19. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> ^
  20. [15:31] <@Steamroll> it goes through absol
  21. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> oh yeah
  22. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> nature power
  23. [15:31] <+cbb> Sawsbuck is a HUGE offensive force
  24. [15:31] <+Keiran> I haven't actually played a Sawsbuck this round yet
  25. [15:31] <%Raseri> sawsbuck is amazingwith sap sipper
  26. [15:31] <+Keiran> o_o
  27. [15:31] <@DTC> I don't think chloro Sawsbuck is that bad
  28. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> i guess
  29. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> its really fast though
  30. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> like
  31. [15:31] <@DTC> The best Sawsbuck checks are Poison-types
  32. [15:31] <@DTC> lol
  33. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> REALLY fast
  34. [15:31] <+cbb> does sawsbuck even have a real counter assuming
  35. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> dtc nature power?
  36. [15:31] <+Luck> dtc
  37. [15:31] <+cbb> SD/Double-Edge/Horn Leech/Nature Power
  38. [15:31] <+Luck> bs nat ninja'd me
  39. [15:31] <+cbb> @ LO?
  40. [15:31] <%Raseri> hp ice tangela
  41. [15:31] <@DTC> Amoonguss
  42. [15:31] <+Luck> y
  43. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> yeah raseri
  44. [15:31] <+Luck> strong set
  45. [15:31] <@DTC> Golbat
  46. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> nah
  47. [15:31] <+Luck> amoongus
  48. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> how much does
  49. [15:31] <+Luck> dies to +2 double edge
  50. [15:31] <+Luck> lol
  51. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> frustration?
  52. 01[15:31] <@NatCounciling> oh right double edge
  53. [15:31] <+Luck> or takes like 80%
  54. [15:32] <@DTC> bambi needs lo too iirc
  55. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> yeah basically its POWERFUL
  56. [15:32] <@DTC> but it does like 95%
  57. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> dtc i think LO is the most common item
  58. [15:32] <@DTC> at least
  59. [15:32] <@DTC> I don't like lo double-edge
  60. [15:32] <+cbb> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Golbat (+Def): 72% - 85% (255 - 301 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  61. [15:32] <+cbb> nice counter
  62. [15:32] <@DTC> it kills bambi so fast
  63. 12[15:32] * Django (Mibbit@synIRC-F48161.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #nucouncil
  64. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> in other words
  65. [15:32] <@DTC> I mean, you have Horn Leech
  66. [15:32] <@DTC> But still
  67. [15:32] <+cbb> LO double-edge really wrecks face though
  68. [15:32] <+Luck> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Amoonguss (+Def): 96% - 114% (418 - 495 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 81% chance to OHKO.
  69. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> basically no defensive counters to sawsbuck?
  70. [15:32] <+cbb> and you can mostly recover with horn leech
  71. [15:32] <+Luck> another amazing counter
  72. [15:32] <+cbb> against one poke at least
  73. [15:32] <@DTC> drifblim
  74. [15:32] <@DTC> unless you run wild charge
  75. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> lol
  76. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> oh right driflbim
  77. [15:32] <+Luck> lol wild charge
  78. [15:32] <+cbb> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Weezing (+Def): 80% - 95% (270 - 319 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  79. [15:32] <+cbb> !!
  80. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> how much does horn leech do
  81. 01[15:32] <@NatCounciling> after sr?
  82. [15:32] <+cbb> yeah drifblim
  83. 12[15:32] * Djangoo_ (~chatzilla@synIRC-F48161.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #nucouncil
  84. [15:33] <+Luck> weezing isn't NU
  85. 11[15:33] * Django (Mibbit@synIRC-F48161.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  86. 05[15:33] * Djangoo_ is now known as Djangoo
  87. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> luck it is
  88. [15:33] <@DTC> shedinka counters sawsbuck
  89. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> k
  90. [15:33] <@DTC> !
  91. [15:33] <+Luck> I haven't seen any
  92. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> luck it is
  93. [15:33] <+Luck> lolk
  94. [15:33] <+cbb> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Horn Leech vs 4HP/0Def Eviolite Drifblim (Neutral): 57% - 67% (252 - 297 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  95. [15:33] <+Luck> shedinja #1
  96. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> and its ANNOYING
  97. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> cbb
  98. [15:33] <+cbb> thats the last bulk possible
  99. [15:33] <+Luck> yeah I got it
  100. [15:33] <+cbb> so it counters it at least once
  101. [15:33] <+cbb> !
  102. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> why is your item
  103. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> always eviolite
  104. [15:33] <+cbb> *least
  105. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> ?_?
  106. [15:33] <+cbb> because I
  107. [15:33] <+cbb> calc'd golbat first
  108. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> ok
  109. [15:33] <+cbb> but it doesnt use that unless it actually has an effect
  110. [15:33] <+cbb> I just couldn't be bothered to change items lol
  111. 01[15:33] <@NatCounciling> but i don't think most drifblim run lefties haha
  112. [15:34] <@DTC> Armaldo tanks Bambi really well
  113. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> ?
  114. [15:34] <+Luck> ???
  115. [15:34] <+cbb> yeah they're all flight gem right now
  116. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> how much does horn leech do?
  117. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> assuming +2 / jolly
  118. [15:34] <@Steamroll> what I do to nail bambi
  119. [15:34] <+cbb> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Horn Leech vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Battle Armor Armaldo (Neutral): 74% - 88% (264 - 313 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  120. [15:34] <+cbb> nice tank
  121. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> possibly sr
  122. [15:34] <@Steamroll> is sucker punch
  123. [15:34] <@DTC> 53.67 - 63.55%
  124. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> yeah i was about to say cbb
  125. [15:34] <+cbb> yeah well
  126. [15:34] <@Steamroll> sturdy sucker punch
  127. [15:34] <+cbb> the common sucker punchers
  128. [15:34] <@DTC> most people run physically defensive armaldo
  129. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> steamroll
  130. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> nature power
  131. [15:34] <@DTC> or 252 hp / 216 defense
  132. [15:34] <+cbb> die to nature power
  133. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> goes through sucker punch
  134. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> so yeah
  135. 01[15:34] <@NatCounciling> !
  136. [15:34] <+cbb> I have never seen
  137. [15:34] <+cbb> physically defensive armaldo
  138. 15[15:34] * DTC sets mode: +v Djangoo
  139. [15:34] <+cbb> I think
  140. [15:34] <@DTC> really? lol
  141. [15:34] <+Luck> sucker punch murkrow
  142. [15:34] <@DTC> I use it most of the time
  143. [15:35] <+cbb> unless emboar OHKO's them with head smash as well
  144. [15:35] <@Steamroll> Nat
  145. [15:35] <@DTC> we can't forget about hp ice/fire tangela
  146. 01[15:35] <@NatCounciling> yes?
  147. [15:35] <@Steamroll> you forget how many people
  148. 01[15:35] <@NatCounciling> forget that?
  149. [15:35] <@Steamroll> fall for SP golem
  150. 01[15:35] <@NatCounciling> sp?
  151. [15:35] <+Djangoo> Tangela is probably the best sawsbuck check
  152. [15:35] <@Steamroll> Sucker Punch >_>
  153. [15:35] <+cbb> rock type
  154. [15:35] <+Djangoo> and even it can lose
  155. [15:35] <+cbb> MUST HORN LEECH
  156. [15:35] <+cbb> etc
  157. 01[15:35] <@NatCounciling> oh haha
  158. [15:35] <@Steamroll> ^
  159. [15:35] <@Steamroll> exactly cbb
  160. [15:35] <+cbb> yeah if there was a huge rise in tangela
  161. [15:35] <+cbb> I'd run megahorn
  162. [15:35] <+cbb> probably
  163. [15:35] <@Steamroll> I always run megahorn
  164. [15:35] <@DTC> I'd use megahorn on a cb set
  165. [15:35] <+cbb> 4 attacks megahorn or whatever
  166. [15:35] <@DTC> or wild charge
  167. 01[15:35] <@NatCounciling> yeah
  168. [15:36] <+cbb> point is, it can hurt every single pokemon in the tier
  169. [15:36] <@Steamroll> I don't like wild charge tbh
  170. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> so basically
  171. [15:36] <+cbb> without giving up huge coverage
  172. [15:36] <+Luck> wild charge hits only
  173. [15:36] <+cbb> every
  174. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> tangela
  175. [15:36] <+Luck> drifblim I think
  176. [15:36] <+cbb> single
  177. [15:36] <+cbb> one
  178. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> is the only defensive check
  179. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> w/ sr up
  180. [15:36] <@DTC> Shelgon tanks it well
  181. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> but
  182. [15:36] <@DTC> Armaldo can take a hit even with SR
  183. [15:36] <+Luck> lol shelgon
  184. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> who uses shelgon
  185. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> ?
  186. [15:36] <+Djangoo> shelgon does nothing back
  187. [15:36] <%Raseri> me
  188. [15:36] <+Djangoo> apart from toxic
  189. [15:36] <+Djangoo> then die
  190. [15:36] <+Luck> research week
  191. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> outrage i guess
  192. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> or dragon claw
  193. [15:36] <+cbb> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Megahorn vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def): 74% - 87% (248 - 292 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  194. [15:36] <+cbb> strong
  195. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> cbb
  196. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> most common set from my experience
  197. [15:36] <@Steamroll> how many people
  198. [15:36] <+cbb> yeah I know
  199. [15:36] <@DTC> false, djangoo
  200. [15:36] <@Steamroll> run SD buck btw?
  201. 01[15:36] <@NatCounciling> sd / horn leech / de / nature
  202. [15:36] <@Steamroll> jw
  203. [15:36] <+cbb> nature/normal/horn leech
  204. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> so
  205. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> it would be better
  206. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> to calc double edge
  207. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> or frustration
  208. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> vs tangela
  209. [15:37] <+Djangoo> ?
  210. [15:37] <+cbb> I was just mentioning the fact
  211. [15:37] <@DTC> it toxic's, then protects
  212. [15:37] <@DTC> !
  213. [15:37] <+Djangoo> then dies
  214. [15:37] <+Djangoo> lolk
  215. [15:37] <+cbb> that it can kill _everything_ in the tier
  216. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> oh ok
  217. [15:37] <+cbb> with the right coverage move
  218. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> yeah but you can't run every coverage move
  219. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> :P
  220. [15:37] <+cbb> yeah lol
  221. [15:37] <+Luck> yeah I'm pretty sure bambi is broken
  222. [15:37] <+Luck> there's a difference nat
  223. [15:37] <+cbb> but that in return means that all checks are really shaky
  224. [15:37] <+Luck> you aren't giving up coverage
  225. 01[15:37] <@NatCounciling> megahorn over????
  226. [15:37] <+Luck> to put that extra move I mean
  227. [15:37] <@DTC> LO Double-Edge will kill you pretty fast
  228. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> that's why
  229. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> i use frustration
  230. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> n_n
  231. [15:38] <@DTC> Especially if you have no chance to use Horn Leech
  232. [15:38] <+Luck> hotn leech will give you back a lot of health btw
  233. [15:38] <@DTC> And you have to actually find time to set-up
  234. [15:38] <+Djangoo> the funny thing is
  235. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> i do
  236. [15:38] <+cbb> well if you really wanted to
  237. [15:38] <+Luck> horn***
  238. [15:38] <+Djangoo> you don't even need megahorn
  239. [15:38] <@DTC> I like SubSD because it can easily set-up
  240. [15:38] <+Djangoo> 252Atk Life Orb +2 Sawsbuck (Neutral) Return vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def): 47% - 55% (157 - 186 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 17% chance to 2HKO.
  241. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> most water-types can't do anything
  242. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> at all
  243. [15:38] <+Djangoo> if you can get an SD on the switch
  244. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> ^
  245. [15:38] <+Djangoo> tangela gets donked
  246. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> well
  247. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> sleep powdder
  248. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> hp ice
  249. [15:38] <+cbb> you can run CB
  250. [15:38] <+cbb> to get all the 2hkos
  251. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> notwithstanding
  252. [15:38] <@DTC> not sleep powder
  253. [15:38] <@DTC> hp ice/fire
  254. [15:38] <+Luck> sleep powder
  255. [15:38] <+cbb> CB only misses out on one pokemon
  256. [15:38] <+Luck> on sap slipepr sawsbuck
  257. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> why not sleep powder?
  258. [15:38] <+Luck> good one
  259. 01[15:38] <@NatCounciling> oh right
  260. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> haha forgot :P
  261. [15:39] <@DTC> I like when Tangela uses Sleep Powder on Sawsbuck
  262. [15:39] <+Djangoo> sap sipper is the better ability
  263. [15:39] <+cbb> drifblim without wild charge
  264. [15:39] <+Luck> sap slipper
  265. [15:39] <+Djangoo> imo
  266. [15:39] <+Luck> lol
  267. [15:39] <+cbb> tangela without megahorn
  268. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> i was talking about chloro
  269. [15:39] <@DTC> Also, that's something we never addressed: Sap Sipper
  270. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> yeahh
  271. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> so basically the most common sleep moves
  272. [15:39] <%Raseri> sap sipper is the best
  273. [15:39] <+Luck> you aren't supposed to run chloro outside of a sun team
  274. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> do shit
  275. [15:39] <+Luck> yeah
  276. [15:39] <@DTC> it's strong enough to do a ton of damage at just +1
  277. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> luck that's the thing
  278. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> it works on both sun and non sun
  279. [15:39] <+cbb> CB with +1 from sap sipper
  280. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> each is v threatening
  281. [15:39] <+cbb> WILL kill something
  282. [15:39] <+Luck> I know
  283. 01[15:39] <@NatCounciling> yeah cbb
  284. [15:39] <+cbb> unless the player fucks up
  285. [15:39] <+Luck> I was just pointing out that sap slipper is the main one imo
  286. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> outside of sun yeah :P
  287. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> so
  288. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> anyways
  289. [15:40] <+Luck> well
  290. [15:40] <@DTC> Bambi has trouble setting-up, but if it sets-up, you're going to be in a lot of trouble
  291. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> have we come to a consensus
  292. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> ?
  293. [15:40] <+Djangoo> with sap sipper its a lot easier to set up
  294. [15:40] <+Luck> I find it broken
  295. [15:40] <@DTC> Unless you're incompetent at Pokemon and set-up when the opposing team has Tangela or another check
  296. [15:40] <+cbb> also the CB set
  297. [15:40] <+cbb> is
  298. [15:40] <+cbb> amazing
  299. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> ok yeah
  300. [15:40] <@DTC> I'm not calling anything broken yet
  301. [15:40] <@DTC> But I'm concerned about bambi
  302. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> ^
  303. [15:40] <@Steamroll> ^
  304. [15:40] <+Djangoo> ^
  305. 01[15:40] <@NatCounciling> HA NINJA
  306. [15:41] <+Djangoo> am I doing it right?
  307. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> ....
  308. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> ok yeah
  309. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> anyways
  310. [15:41] <@Steamroll> anyways
  311. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> we'll discuss that again next meeting!
  312. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> next one!
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