NAS4Free plugin IRC discussion

(09:16:45 PM) cpengr: as I mentioned recently, I'm looking into possibly making an rutorrent extension for N4F. Word is it's recommended to put extensions in jails. I'm just reading up on them now.
(09:17:12 PM) cpengr: rutorrent needs a webserver to serve it up, and rtorrent will need disk space for the files it up/downloads...
(09:17:22 PM) cpengr: i figure most users will want the data somewhere on their main data partition, probably somewhere above the jail root.
(09:17:39 PM) cpengr: so it seems to me that the advantages of *not* putting rtorrent & rutorrent in a jail would be (1) easy access to storage (not via network share), and (2) ability to use N4F's built-in webserver. (The user could put rutorrent in a separate subdir under the www root dir.)
(09:17:53 PM) cpengr: what would be the disadvantages of /not/ using a jail? and/or why are my advantages listed above not such a big deal?
(09:19:02 PM) killermist: If bubulein is around, he'd be the one to ask about that.
(09:19:03 PM) jgornick [~jgornick@c-66-41-28-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(09:19:09 PM) ry: humm, probably for lack of experience but i still do not see the big deal with using jails on a fileserver
(09:19:19 PM) ry: cpengr, i'm curious to know what you come up with
(09:19:24 PM) ry: as for the "best practices"
(09:19:30 PM) ry: to jail or not to jail =)
(09:19:42 PM) ry: i'm going to track down some docs on solaris
(09:20:12 PM) ry: solaris has something very similar to jails, and a network virtualization stack "crossbow" to provide advanced network functionality to those "paravirtualized" systems
(09:20:40 PM) ry: maybe it'll shed some light on how i can use them for my needs, whatever those are
(09:20:50 PM) ry: i did see a few things i'd like to install on my NAS4free system
(09:22:53 PM) cpengr: @killermist, thanks.
(09:51:21 PM) cpengr: of the extensions that exist now, does anyone know which do and which don't use jails?
(09:52:51 PM) killermist: I'm not even really aware of what extensions exist.
(09:54:33 PM) cpengr: The only place I know to find them is http://forums.nas4free.org/viewforum.php?f=71
(09:55:07 PM) cpengr: But...it's a little strange to me, since there's no uniform installer interface...how do you define what is and what isn't an extension?
(09:57:32 PM) Shovelware left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]).
(09:57:56 PM) killermist: cpengr:   Wizard did it?
(09:58:19 PM) Shovelware [~chatzilla@host-68-169-137-65.MIDOLT2.epbfi.com] entered the room.
(09:59:10 PM) cpengr: what wizard?
(09:59:24 PM) killermist: Pop TV reference.
(09:59:50 PM) cpengr: oh, what show?
(09:59:56 PM) killermist: Anytime there is a "continuity error" that a fan wants explained, the answer is always "Wizard did it."
(10:00:01 PM) killermist: Simpsons.
(10:00:08 PM) cpengr: oh, heh
(10:01:05 PM) killermist: You're asking questions for which there is no coherent answer.
(10:01:25 PM) cpengr: bummer
(10:01:35 PM) cpengr: ...no coherent answer for any of them?
(10:03:11 PM) killermist: What makes one thing an "extension", another a "plugin", and something else an "unofficial tweak" is all user terminology.
(10:07:37 PM) cpengr: odd. do you know if there are any plans to have a more uniform extension / plugin installer?
(10:09:19 PM) MrJayLap left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
(10:23:34 PM) killermist: Probably not.
(10:24:57 PM) killermist: I think it was the one feature that IX was able to leverage to draw some of the FreeNAS 7 developers into the mess that is FreeNAS8.
(10:29:07 PM) cpengr: Any idea why not? Seems like a pretty compelling feature, IMHO.
(10:35:48 PM) cpengr: ...interesting: according to http://wiki.nas4free.org/doku.php?id=faq:0085 , it's the UI that defines makes something an "extension".
(10:40:00 PM) cpengr: i still think a consistent installer interface would be a good idea, though. making that kind of flexibility easy for users could help build the community, i think.
(10:51:19 PM) McFly [b84041cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.64.65.203] entered the room.
(10:52:50 PM) McFly: Hi everyone... curious... on nas4free - what user does transmission run as?
(10:54:34 PM) killermist: cpengr:  There is a fundamental concept you 're missing.  NAS4Free, as-is, is "good enough".  Anything that is "needed" as an add-on should be community supported/created, if created at all.
(10:54:59 PM) killermist: McFly:  Transmission runs as user transmission (UID999)
(10:55:43 PM) McFly: ty - i/m trying a chown now... its hard with my 7 month old on my  lap to concentrate! lol
(10:57:56 PM) McFly left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed).
(11:00:53 PM) McFly [b84041cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.64.65.203] entered the room.
(11:01:59 PM) cpengr: @killermist, what I'm suggesting is that add-ons be made easier to...add on.
(11:02:39 PM) McFly_ [b84041cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.64.65.203] entered the room.
(11:03:37 PM) McFly_: whew
(11:03:56 PM) KM0201: ?
(11:04:07 PM) killermist: cpengr:   I think it is unnecessary.
(11:04:17 PM) McFly_: key hitting, face grabbing fun while configuring transmission.
(11:04:33 PM) KM0201: lol
(11:05:00 PM) McFly left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(11:05:55 PM) killermist: The_Avengers_2012_-_dvdrip available.
(11:06:09 PM) killermist: ... oops.  Wrong tab.
(11:06:28 PM) ***bubulein think it should me just a nas, nothing less and nothing more
(11:08:16 PM) KM0201: i agree bubulein
(11:08:26 PM) KM0201: some of the plugins i see people wanting for OMV.. i'm like, 'wtf'
(11:08:34 PM) KM0201: you do know this is just a NAS, right?
(11:08:49 PM) killermist: Yes.  The NAS is supposed to be a NAS.
(11:09:44 PM) killermist: I think that the transmission client is a double-edged sword.
(11:10:24 PM) cpengr: @killermist, what do you mean about transmission?
(11:10:47 PM) bubulein: i would remove much more from n4f, but then there is a need for plugins - which result in much more work
(11:10:47 PM) killermist: It adds some much-needed "storage" abilities, but it drags in the "I want it to download, for me" crowd.
(11:11:17 PM) KM0201: i like the transmission plugin.
(11:11:48 PM) bubulein: KM0201: but currently it isnt a plugin
(11:11:56 PM) KM0201: oh ok
(11:11:59 PM) KM0201: i was speaking about omv.
(11:12:00 PM) killermist: Transmission is an asset.  But it draws in too many wanting sickbeard, and the other auto-downloader stuff.
(11:12:10 PM) KM0201: yup
(11:13:01 PM) KM0201: if dlna would work properly with n4f, i probably would have used it, but it never worked for me.. ever
(11:13:07 PM) KM0201: even when everyone else said it did.
(11:13:19 PM) killermist: Finding, via a tracker forum, precisely what you want to download, and then downloading just that, has merit.
(11:14:05 PM) bubulein: there are much more bigger problems in the current system which need to be fixed
(11:14:16 PM) bubulein: pamd for example
(11:14:21 PM) cpengr: Why would making n4f easier to customize be a bad thing? Personally, that is why I love e.g. Firefox--it's easy to find and install plugins to make it do what I want.
(11:14:35 PM) cpengr: well, "higher priorities" is a good answer
(11:15:31 PM) killermist: cpengr:  If the user is going to have to have another computer anyway, and that computer can be configured to do sickbeard/etc?  Why does the NAS need to do that?
(11:15:52 PM) cpengr: because the other computer isn't on 24/7.
(11:16:09 PM) killermist: Personally, I think Dropbox on the NAS would be more appropriate than sickbeard/similar.
(11:16:33 PM) bubulein: agree
(11:16:59 PM) bubulein: i think the fututre should be to act as a cache for the cloud
(11:17:25 PM) killermist: Squid might be an asset.
(11:17:31 PM) bubulein: would be nice if the nas would manage what to push into the cloud
(11:17:34 PM) killermist: But, might be hard to upkeep.
(11:18:03 PM) bubulein: killermist: i run squid for webcache, what i mean is a local-cache for my cloud data
(11:18:19 PM) killermist: NAS as an (optional) proxy for the network would be a positive thing, I think.
(11:18:33 PM) bubulein: primary my nas is a nas, but i have squid/havp as an addon
(11:18:36 PM) killermist: bi-directional squid.
(11:18:42 PM) bubulein: since i need much diskspace for squid
(11:19:08 PM) killermist: cache internet to local, and local to internet, both ways.
(11:19:30 PM) bubulein: something like this
(11:19:36 PM) killermist: I think netflix may be cacheproof.
(11:19:46 PM) killermist: But that's OK.
(11:20:11 PM) bubulein: well, i've to go to work, currently i have to work mysqlf to sponsore my nas a few new 2tb drives :)
(11:20:18 PM) bubulein: cu ladies
(11:20:21 PM) cpengr: so now you are suggesting more ideas for extensions, right? wouldn't it be useful to have a push-button installer?
(11:20:24 PM) bubulein: and may the source be with you
(11:20:53 PM) cpengr: peace, bubulein.
(11:20:59 PM) bubulein left the room (quit: Quit: bubulein).
(11:21:26 PM) killermist: cpengr:   If you really want a plugin structure, you may actually want FreeNAS8.
(11:21:34 PM) killermist: And I don't say that lightly.
(11:21:50 PM) killermist: Because to many, FreeNAS8 is like a death sentence.
(11:22:57 PM) KM0201: lol
(11:23:00 PM) cpengr: honestly, i like that n4f strives to be simple and lightweight, and that it seems like it's done "for the love" (vs. money).
(11:23:25 PM) cpengr: i just don't get the aversion to extension.
(11:23:50 PM) KM0201: cpengr: check out omv.. :)..
(11:23:53 PM) killermist: If simplicity is the highest priority, then extension is... anathema.
(11:23:53 PM) cpengr: if the answer was "it's in the plan, for later"--i get that.
(11:24:21 PM) cpengr: @killermist: please elaborate.
(11:24:38 PM) cpengr: and feel free to contrast with Firefox.
(11:25:19 PM) killermist: dictionary.reference.com/browse/anathema
(11:25:53 PM) killermist: Extension is directly inverse to simplicity.
(11:28:25 PM) cpengr: i'm talking about simplicity for the users. it's cheaper to have multiple services in one box. it can be easier too, depending..
(11:29:32 PM) cpengr: hmm..are you suggesting that the plugin architecture is actually a primary cause of the freenas "death sentence"?
(11:30:26 PM) KM0201: properly implemented, a plugin system is fine
(11:30:38 PM) KM0201: FN has a lot of problems beyond it's plugin system
(11:30:56 PM) killermist: IX took the developers seduced by the dark-side of plugins, and went off to do FreeNAS8.
(11:31:57 PM) killermist: When Plugins was made a priority, instead of simplicity, serious design flaws form.
(11:32:31 PM) cpengr: such as?
(11:33:33 PM) killermist: system requirement bloat, for one.
(11:35:04 PM) cpengr: does the plugin /architecture/ actually require notably more system resources? or is just the potential for plugins that leads them to suggest higher system requirements, "to be on the safe side"?
(11:35:18 PM) killermist: delay in adding more updated versions, for two (because a new version may break countless "official" (or not) plugins.
(11:37:45 PM) killermist: cpengr: I'm not sure what the actual cause of the requirement bloat was for FreeNAS8.
(11:37:50 PM) McFly_: KM0201: FN definitely has more problems than it's plugin system. haha -  I moved to N4F because of it's issues.
(11:38:07 PM) KM0201: McFly_: yup
(11:38:51 PM) cpengr: McFly_: can you elaborate on FN8's problems? i still like the feel of n4f better, but i can't totally put my finger on why.
(11:38:54 PM) KM0201: again, properly implemented, a plugin system is fine.
(11:38:59 PM) killermist: But, consider for just a moment that where NAS4Free and FreeNAS8 went opposed directions is precisely the example of what happens when plugins or simplicity are prioritized over everything else.
(11:39:59 PM) cpengr: @killermist: hmm, that release delay issue sounds like a real challenge. maybe having more developers could help remedy that? and maybe you could draw more developers by having a little plugin support? maybe..just a thought.
(11:40:59 PM) McFly_: cpengr: I'll be honest - I'm not very savvy in BSD, so I found FN8 to be overly complicated with the jails during upgrades. The plugin system is rather complicated unless you really want to learn jails, spend a while playing and then impliment... I have two kids - and this allows me to use ZFS pools, and a number of other nice features - without also spending hours on forums.
(11:41:33 PM) killermist: FreeNAS with more developers  does less with more, where between just zoon01 and daisuke, they consistently turn out a quality result regularly.
(11:42:53 PM) cpengr: and you think the primary cause of that difference is plugin support--or the mentality behind it?
(11:42:54 PM) McFly_: cpengr: I also have to agree with killermist... they are constantly developing, but I waited months for plugins, to find it was very complicated considering what "I" need - some love it though.
(11:43:40 PM) killermist: cpengr:   I think you may have nailed it.
(11:44:04 PM) killermist: Additionally, FreeNAS has to consider commercial viability.
(11:44:55 PM) killermist: Where all zoon01 and daisuke have to think about is, "How hard is this thing to implement, and then to upkeep?"
(11:45:49 PM) backspace: FWIMC: Silverstone Strider SFX 450W Gold is NOT a quiet PSU nor is it less power hungry than Corsair AX650W
(11:46:14 PM) McFly_: Yeah - which likely drives the features quite a bit. My work is all EMC SANs, so I won't be installing FN or N4F. They would balk at any more open source, as currently all of our open source is pretty unreliable. (Not the fault of open source, but the rep stands nonetheless)
(11:46:26 PM) killermist: backspace:  I am not sufficiently informed to argue that point.
(11:46:47 PM) backspace: I know. Therefor: "For who it may concern".
(11:47:32 PM) McFly_: haha - I just keep with my Corsair 750 and pay my electricity provider. I turn off lights before my cpus. :$
(11:47:44 PM) killermist: ... Oh.  That's what FWIMC means....
(11:47:59 PM) backspace: Yea. Gonna patent it so Apple don't sue me.
(11:48:07 PM) McFly_: haha
(11:48:50 PM) backspace: McFly_: Actually. I don't care if a machine cost me some money.
(11:49:03 PM) backspace: It's just for fun.
(11:49:22 PM) backspace: Making a machine running as low a possible.
(11:49:55 PM) McFly_: I'm somewhat conscious, but again, when you build a 32Gb, 8 core NAS... really... it's no longer necessary.
(11:50:35 PM) McFly_: at that point, it's simply an exercise in overkill. :$
(11:51:13 PM) backspace: He. I am going in the opposite direction.
(11:51:24 PM) backspace: Trying to go for Mini-itx and such.
(11:51:43 PM) backspace: As much POWER as possible in a sff.
(11:51:56 PM) KM0201: 32gb?.. is that RAM?
(11:52:05 PM) backspace: Disk space...
(11:52:09 PM) backspace: ;)
(11:52:18 PM) KM0201: lol, touche'
(11:52:24 PM) KM0201: how much disk space do you have McFly_ ?
(11:52:45 PM) cpengr: it's still not clear to me what why it would be difficult to have a basic framework for plugins. e.g. There'd be one more php page, where you browse to and upload the plugin to be installed, and the destination. Then there'd be a basic interface specification for the plugin, like standards saying the installer script must be named X, and standards for the php page (which already exist).
(11:52:47 PM) McFly_: haha = 32gb ram - AMD cpu w/ 4 sitcks.
(11:53:05 PM) KM0201: how much storage?
(11:53:12 PM) KM0201: you better have at least 10tb w/ that much ram
(11:53:22 PM) McFly_: 4 x 2tb / 6 x 1tb
(11:53:23 PM) backspace: AMD... is that something you wipe your ass with? *covering behind a wall*
(11:53:27 PM) backspace: =D
(11:53:37 PM) cpengr: but then...maybe that will lead to poorly-written plugins breaking stuff, and more support requests?
(11:53:39 PM) KM0201: man, my little NAS is simple.
(11:53:41 PM) McFly_: nice - it was on sale... but agreed, not powerful.
(11:54:44 PM) cpengr: and / or maybe (likely) i am overlooking other aspects that would need to be developed to support it.
(11:55:06 PM) McFly_: you have to admit, if I broke out the high end i7 it would still be crazy. haha
(11:55:25 PM) KM0201: i've got a simple, amd sempron 145, 1.6ghz fo rmy NAS
(11:55:29 PM) KM0201: 8gigs of ram
(11:56:40 PM) killermist: cpengr:  plugins lead to "problems with plugins", which instead of an exception where the plugin-maker just re-crafts the plugin, the whole system is held back because it may "break" "too many" user systems.
(11:56:56 PM) McFly_: I previously had a core2 quad (low end unit) but the mainboard died, so the sale on the board and CPU here in Canada sold it. The RAM was cheap also now... it's drives that suck nowadays.
(11:57:12 PM) KM0201: yup
(11:57:20 PM) KM0201: drives are not only expensive, but their quality is awful
(11:57:47 PM) KM0201: anyone who's not running with some sort of consistent backup on these newer drives, is going to pay (w
(11:58:27 PM) McFly_: I'm actually worse, I need backup because every computer here is ssd. So if I'm not careful - it's all my fault.
(11:59:39 PM) KM0201: indeedx
(09/03/2012 12:00:08 AM) killermist: "McFly, you bojo!  Those boards don't work on water!"
(12:00:33 AM) killermist: hehehe
(12:01:03 AM) cpengr: @killermist, that does sound like a challenging problem, and i don't know if there's really a way i could "have my cake, and eat it, too". but still, i can't help but think that Mozilla has done a great job of balancing it with Firefox. of course, I'm sure they have >> 2 devs..
(12:01:04 AM) KM0201: lol
(12:01:21 AM) ***KM0201 decides to watch "Back to The Future".. haven't saw the first one in a while.
(12:01:42 AM) KM0201: wiat, that as #2
(12:01:46 AM) cpengr: KM0201, II is my fave. :)
(12:01:53 AM) McFly_: I'd like to setup a sync to another site of all the important stuff (kids pics/documents) but setting up a remote box that eats bandwidth from family or work. Work would be fine with bandwidth, but it's the fairly security-concious nature of my work that leaves me pause on putting personal devices on.
(12:01:58 AM) KM0201: cpengr: same
(12:01:59 AM) McFly_: haha
(12:02:14 AM) cpengr: ^ hello ;)
(12:02:28 AM) killermist: cpengr:  Well, firefox also has a far more active community.
(12:02:36 AM) KM0201: "So why don't you make like a tree.. and get outta here"
(12:02:39 AM) McFly_: It was just a matter of time. ;)
(12:02:58 AM) cpengr: lol @ u 2
(12:03:04 AM) KM0201: "It's leave you idiot, make like a tree, and leave, you sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong"
(12:03:28 AM) backspace: Ah
(12:03:31 AM) backspace: Child hood.
(12:03:48 AM) backspace: I miss thee
(12:04:04 AM) KM0201: yup.. :(
(12:04:12 AM) McFly_: okay - I was a child... it didn't seem that long ago.
(12:04:19 AM) McFly_: I had to lookup the year.
(12:05:53 AM) cpengr: @killermist, yeah, they do. so do u think a plugin architecture is sustainable with some minimum ratio of developer activity to system complexity?
(12:06:54 AM) McFly_: I didn't think I was 5, but - I was. Hmm - it's strange that I remember those things. My son is three, I better always think of what he'll remember! haha
(12:07:22 AM) killermist: cpengr:  If, and only if, the developers can choose to not care how many systems they break by updating something that needs to update, maybe.
(12:07:58 AM) killermist: Plugins must exist in a grey fringe outside developer support.
(12:08:22 AM) McFly_: I agree with @killermist, they would need to be outside support - there is a really high chance of dirty plugins.
(12:08:22 AM) cpengr: that is acceptable. it has to be.
(12:08:44 AM) cpengr: for the plugins themselves.
(12:09:31 AM) McFly_: nobody can police the plugin "store", like a for profit vendor can
(12:09:51 AM) McFly_: As it stands, Firefox breaks plugins all the time.
(12:09:56 AM) killermist: To further this line of logic, I offer as exhibit all the plugins that regularly "fall off the map" because nobody updates them.
(12:10:04 AM) killermist: ... in firefox.
(12:10:31 AM) McFly_: It's the large community that drives the plugin updates - that's the only reason some stay forever.
(12:11:00 AM) killermist: I have a total of 2 reasons I continue to use Firefox.
(12:11:30 AM) killermist: 1.)  I kind of don't trust Chrome with the tracker forums I use.  They're kind of paranoid.
(12:13:10 AM) killermist: 2.)  In Pardus (http://pardus.at), the alliance I'm in has a very powerful extension that provides many features.
(12:13:15 AM) McFly_: Well, that and Google dumping money into Firefox. ;)
(12:13:53 AM) cpengr: i use several plugins in ff, and they have lasted. but the potential install base for n4f is much smaller, so i'd guess the potential developer and user interest is less, too.
(12:14:13 AM) cpengr: which means the community won't be as large
(12:15:08 AM) cpengr: but then again, there probably wouldn't be demand for anywhere near as wide a variety of plugins in n4f, as there is for ff.
(12:15:15 AM) McFly_: Nobody would want my BASIC plugin. :( - no tape to save it on my commodore.
(12:16:02 AM) cpengr: as a user, i am willing to accept the "grey area" of support for plugins.
(12:16:58 AM) McFly_: Firefly, MiniDLNA and Transmission are the most popular...
(12:17:51 AM) killermist: cpengr:  Consider that NAS4Free is already the junction of "what most users want" and "what most users would exert the ability to add".
(12:18:41 AM) McFly_: Couldn't I just install the additional software I needed?
(12:19:35 AM) McFly_: What is a program that auto-downloads? I've never used one (cut and paste works for me in transmission-remote) haha
(12:19:50 AM) killermist: Embedded is difficult to modify (with reason).  This is an asset, or a liability, depending on what you're looking to do (or not).
(12:20:16 AM) McFly_: aaah.
(12:21:12 AM) cpengr: @killermist, that's a compelling point (re - junction). however, what if n4f had more users, b/c of a little plugin support? and then it would take less effort to install, so perhaps more users would be interested?
(12:21:32 AM) McFly_: I just figured that I had it on a 8gb stick, I could (in theory) add the one major item I needed by hand.
(12:22:31 AM) killermist: cpengr:  I'm a fan of "organic growth".  This is one of the things that IX failed to realize.
(12:22:53 AM) cpengr: how so?
(12:23:11 AM) killermist: They acquired a name, and used that to continue to draw in users that were familiar with that name (for a time).
(12:23:24 AM) cpengr: oh, that.
(12:23:48 AM) killermist: They didn't realize that crap also turns off users.
(12:24:01 AM) cpengr: bait and switch crap, you mean?
(12:24:47 AM) killermist: And that quality (NAS4Free) has more longevity than a (previously trusted) name.
(12:26:03 AM) McFly_: I think (as I did) a lot of people expected FreeNAS would have a solid method, eventually, to install Transmission et al since they removed it on the creation of 8... and it to this day isn't nearly as easy as n4f.
(12:26:25 AM) cpengr: and that quality and longevity (and honesty) is a big part of why i've gravitated toward n4f over fn8.
(12:26:57 AM) cpengr: @killermist, are you saying "it's too early" for plugins for n4f? or that n4f should not (ever) have a plugin architecture? in your opinion.
(12:27:03 AM) killermist: I think one of the things that got zoon01 to "promote" me is that he knows that I don't sugar coat things.
(12:27:29 AM) cpengr: promoted to what position?
(12:27:34 AM) killermist: n4f should not (ever) have a plugin architecture? in my opinion.
(12:28:22 AM) killermist: It is so sufficiently open that adding tweaks/plugins/extensions is ... not hard.
(12:28:35 AM) killermist: Well, Op in the channel.
(12:28:48 AM) killermist: And trusted enough to edit the wiki.
(12:29:11 AM) cpengr: (@ == op, yes?)
(12:29:16 AM) killermist: Yes.
(12:30:07 AM) mode (+v cpengr) by killermist
(12:30:18 AM) mode (-v cpengr) by killermist
(12:30:47 AM) cpengr: did you just mute me?
(12:31:01 AM) killermist: No.  I just added voice, then removed.
(12:31:30 AM) killermist: This is a channel that doesn't require "voice" to speak.
(12:31:35 AM) cpengr: oic
(12:31:43 AM) killermist: voice is just a fairly trivial perk.
(12:31:44 AM) cpengr: demo :)
(12:32:01 AM) cpengr: so you liked me for a split second? haha
(12:32:13 AM) killermist: In some channels, voice is what "servers" get to indicate their "asset-ness".
(12:33:19 AM) killermist: In other channels, everyone gets voice automagically.  And the more annoying people get devoiced for a time to learn the error of their ways.
(12:33:36 AM) Shovelware left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]).
(12:33:42 AM) cpengr: ah, right
(12:34:59 AM) cpengr: "It is so sufficiently open that adding tweaks/plugins/extensions is ... not hard." But I'd say it's not easy, either. It requires digging in the forums, and jumping through hoops (e.g. union mounts).
(12:36:48 AM) cpengr: so as a user who wants to customize a bit, it's a bummer.
(12:37:14 AM) killermist: There is lots, and lots of documentation.
(12:38:05 AM) cpengr: which is surely better than not having it--but not as good as not having to look, because the installation is so easy.
(12:38:14 AM) cpengr: imo
(12:38:14 AM) killermist: And... there is the IRC channel.  Where, like a pinball paddle, I can deflect people to the most relevant information to what they're trying to do.
(12:38:55 AM) cpengr: most of the time, i guess. ;)
(12:39:07 AM) McFly_: haha
(12:39:48 AM) killermist: ... Maybe that's why zoon01 promoted me.  I'm a good pinball paddle.
(12:40:02 AM) McFly_: but km, how will I get help if you are gone? what about my "mission critical" home nas install? :P jk
(12:40:34 AM) killermist: You can ask questions.  I almost never leave the channel.
(12:41:05 AM) killermist: And often, on my return, I look back through the log, and answer any questions of people that are still in the channel.
(12:44:09 AM) McFly_: haha - I was more kidding, but that exceeded my expectation of an answer. :D
(12:45:20 AM) killermist: Sometimes free projects, just because they're free, draw a lot of effort.
(12:45:32 AM) McFly_: I consider an open source nas project to be far on my list of required support. Heck, my expensive vendors aren't good at times. :)
(12:46:31 AM) cpengr: killermist, what did you think of my "basic framework" idea for plugins? "e.g. There'd be one more php page, where you browse to and upload the plugin to be installed, and the destination. Then there'd be a basic interface specification for the plugin, like standards saying the installer script must be named X, and standards for the php page (which already exist)."
(12:47:56 AM) killermist: cpengr: If you're considering a plugin structure, zoon01 would be who to talk to about how to do it sanely.
(12:48:34 AM) killermist: There is also the possible problem of data storage.
(12:49:07 AM) killermist: The boot image and installed system are kept super-minimal for a reason.
(12:50:03 AM) cpengr: I did mention destination (where I quoted myself). Generally the user would install them to some place on his/her data store.
(12:51:48 AM) cpengr: does zoon01 come in the channel sometimes? is he open to tossing ideas around? (vs. presenting an idea with details already hashed out.)
(12:52:49 AM) killermist: He's from the Netherlands, so he's on mostly early-day US time.
(12:53:01 AM) McFly_: Curious, anyone used the Highpoint line of cards? I'd like to install a card that will take full advantage of sata 3 on my system - any luck with these units?
(12:54:22 AM) killermist: I thought cards didn't use the on-board abilities of the motherboard.
(12:54:28 AM) cpengr: good to know.
(12:55:32 AM) cpengr: killermist, thanks again for all the info.
(12:55:43 AM) cpengr: and your time.