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log with symph

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  1. [21:29] <aldaron> hola
  2. [21:29] <Symphonyx64> hi
  3. [21:30] <aldaron> [20:36:30] <&aldaron> because a.) showdown is the official simulator b.) any argument they have is based on server faults c.) previous is made utterly irrelevant by the fact that by chosing to play on a non official sim, they open themselves to risk
  4. [21:30] <aldaron> [20:36:35] <&aldaron> its pretty cut and dry logic
  5. [21:30] <aldaron> [20:37:28] <&aldaron> due to showdown's "rejoin battle" feature, any "lagged out" issues due to ANY reason are irrelevant
  6. [21:30] <Symphonyx64> I saw that
  7. [21:30] <aldaron> cause its probably about that :P
  8. [21:31] <Symphonyx64> Unfortunately, I cannot grant you the win based on that.
  9. [21:31] <aldaron> what is the justification for that?
  10. [21:32] <Symphonyx64> Because if you look at ST9 for example, you can play BW2 on PO 2 if both players agree
  11. [21:32] <Symphonyx64> and all the risks of playing on a certain simulator falls on the players
  12. [21:32] <aldaron> exactly
  13. [21:32] <aldaron> it fell on poppy
  14. [21:32] <aldaron> he lagged out
  15. [21:32] <aldaron> thats his fault becase as you said, "all the risks of playing on a certain simulator falls on the players"
  16. [21:33] <aldaron> i would say the same if hugendugen lagged out on po2
  17. [21:33] <Symphonyx64> okay so hugendugen can exercise his options for d/c
  18. [21:33] <Symphonyx64> recreate the match, same teams, etc
  19. [21:34] <Symphonyx64> there wont be any free win
  20. [21:34] <aldaron> um
  21. [21:35] <aldaron> you are aware poppy timed out right
  22. [21:35] <aldaron> "Timer Clause: If a player exhausts the timer, he/she loses."
  23. [21:35] <aldaron> straight from the standard official bw tournament rules -_-
  24. [21:35] <aldaron> The battle ended by timeout.
  25. [21:36] <Symphonyx64> where did you get that from
  26. [21:36] <aldaron> get what from
  27. [21:37] <Symphonyx64> "Timer Clause: If a player exhausts the timer, he/she loses."
  28. [21:37] <aldaron> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3476717
  29. [21:37] <Symphonyx64> Disconnections and Timer Clause: In live tournaments with short time constraints such as the Smogon Tour, if a player disconnects or times out, the opponent may take the win. In other tournaments, if a player disconnects and contends that they could still win, the optimal solution is to recreate the exact situation the disconnection occurred at during the battle. If this is not feasible due to unreasonable battle length, highly improba
  30. [21:37] <Symphonyx64> circumstances, or some other reason, the player who did not disconnect may choose to rematch with either the same teams or (the option to use) new teams. Timing out is still classified as a loss, unless the reason for timing out is a disconnection. If there is any suspicion that a disconnect was carried out deliberately to take advantage of this rule in any way, we reserve the right to exercise a harsh punishment.
  31. [21:38] <Symphonyx64> Lag falls under that catagory
  32. [21:39] <aldaron> where does it say lag falls under that category?
  33. [21:39] <aldaron> also even if lag does (and i am not admitting it does), how can you prove 100% without a doubt it was lag that caused the time out
  34. [21:41] <aldaron> also if you want precedence for how a time out has been applied in a team tournament before, in the recent wcop, sogeking and roxou were playing, roxou timed out, and soge took the win, they didnt replay, i dont see why we would replay in spl
  35. [21:44] <Symphonyx64> in that situation, roxou was seeking advice and running damage calcs
  36. [21:44] <Symphonyx64> there was no lag
  37. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:39:25] <aldaron> also even if lag does (and i am not admitting it does), how can you prove 100% without a doubt it was lag that caused the time out
  38. [21:44] <Symphonyx64> thats what I have to decide
  39. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:13] <&JabbaTheGriffin> Timing out is still classified as a loss, unless the reason for timing out is a disconnection.
  40. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:15] <&JabbaTheGriffin> that is in the rules
  41. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:19] <&JabbaTheGriffin> you cannot simply ignore that
  42. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:47] <&JabbaTheGriffin> honestly i don't even care if he had slight lag
  43. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:57] <&JabbaTheGriffin> if you're lagging a bit, don't let yourself fall under 30 seconds
  44. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:41:59] <&JabbaTheGriffin> that's common sense
  45. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:42:12] <&JabbaTheGriffin> (also "lag" can't be proven"
  46. [21:44] <aldaron> [21:42:14] <&JabbaTheGriffin> )
  47. [21:44] <aldaron> for what other people think
  48. [21:45] <aldaron> lag never lets you get under 30 seconds
  49. [21:45] <aldaron> with just lag
  50. [21:45] <aldaron> do you honestly believe
  51. [21:45] <aldaron> just lag
  52. [21:45] <aldaron> got poppy under 30 seconds?
  53. [21:45] <aldaron> po2 has 5 minutes start + boost on move
  54. [21:45] <aldaron> there were 47 turns to that battle
  55. [21:46] <aldaron> there is no way there wasn't "advice given" during a 47 turn battle where the timer gets below 30 seconds
  56. [21:46] <aldaron> its not "just lag" (as if lag is proveable in the first place)
  57. [21:49] <aldaron> if the issues here is "lag," you have to do 3 things: a.) show me where lag even applies in the rules b.) prove without a doubt that it was lag that caused the dc c.) prove that no advice was given / damage calcs done d.) justify with blue's ruling with roxou / sogeking shouldnt apply in the absence of 100% irrefutable proof for c
  58. [21:49] <aldaron> i think it's quite clear all of a - d can't be done with any certainty
  59. [21:49] <aldaron> just the idea that pure lag and only lag could get you below 30 seconds is highly doubtful
  60. [21:53] <aldaron> this is after all spl, saying a team was giving a player advice is far more likely that claiming a player "lagged out" of a 47 turn battle due SOLELY to lag
  61. [21:56] <aldaron> its noteworthy that poppys timer was really high until about 4 turns left in the game and then he started taking forever when he realized he was in trouble, its not like it was a consistent issue as in he was > 4m almost all game
  62. [22:02] <Symphonyx64> Okay
  63. [22:02] <Symphonyx64> So poppy was not lagging the whole time, only until he made his move when he had 30 seconds left
  64. [22:02] <Symphonyx64> still havent come to a decision tho
  65. [22:02] <Symphonyx64> hang tight
  66. [22:04] <aldaron> since this feels like a courtroom, let me make my "final argument" once again:
  67. [22:05] <aldaron> remember, their entire argument stands on "lag," meaning they have 4 responsibilities to force a rematch: a.) prove absolutely that lag falls under that category in the rules b.) prove WITHOUT A DOUBT it was only lag that caused the dc c.) prove no advice was given at all d.) in absense of c, why blue's decision regarding sogeking / roxou doesn't apply as precedent
  68. [22:06] <aldaron> and about b, the way poppy didnt lag throughout the match and then only "lagged" when he was in trouble
  69. [22:06] <aldaron> is highly suspicious
  70. [22:06] <aldaron> at the least it shows it wasnt _only_ lag
  71. [22:06] <Symphonyx64> others were also reporting lag in the chat
  72. [22:07] <aldaron> was hugen?
  73. [22:07] <aldaron> since the issue is about the battlers' unique connection to the server
  74. [22:07] <aldaron> (which is different than a standard user on po)
  75. [22:07] <Symphonyx64> Hugen was not
  76. [22:07] <Symphonyx64> according to him anyways
  77. [22:07] <aldaron> (a battler has a different connection to the server in a po2 battle than a user watching)
  78. [22:08] <aldaron> so its more likely two battlers have similar scenarios than a battler and a user watching
  79. [22:19] <aldaron> btw, poppy posted this: gg
  80. [22:19] <aldaron> fun match
  81. [22:20] <aldaron> before it was delayed
  82. [22:20] <aldaron> deleted *
  83. [22:20] <aldaron> meaning poppy himself accepted it
  84. [22:20] <aldaron> just limitless / kg playing games
  85. [22:28] <aldaron> btw blue's decision with sogeking and roxou applies now right? since you said [21:44:10] <Symphonyx64> in that situation, roxou was seeking advice and running damage calcs
  86. [22:28] <aldaron> and poppy just admitted to running damage calcs
  87. [22:28] <Symphonyx64> yea poppy was running damage calcs
  88. [22:28] <aldaron> so this is pretty clear right :P
  89. [22:29] <aldaron> since blue's decision is a direct precedent
  90. [22:29] <Symphonyx64> But there was no lag whatsoever,roxous was just lazy
  91. [22:29] <Symphonyx64> poppy was facing lag
  92. [22:29] <Symphonyx64> but that doesnt mean roxou wouldnt have faced lag if he made a move
  93. [22:43] <aldarOFF> where do we stand?
  94. [22:43] <aldarOFF> im an old man i have to go to work tomorrow :P
  95. [22:43] <Symphonyx64> Same place where we left off
  96. [22:43] <Symphonyx64> no decision
  97. [22:43] <Symphonyx64> :P
  98. [22:44] <aldarOFF> ugh
  99. [22:44] <Symphonyx64> no you are a responsible man for working