Sun Council Discussion

[16:42] <@DTC> ok so let's discuss about weather now
[16:42] <+cbb> not at absol
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> hmmm!
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> weather!
[16:42] <+cbb> also I'm mad again
[16:42] <%shnen> weather
[16:42] <+cbb> not anymore
[16:42] <%Raseri> ban hail
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> tough one
[16:42] <@DTC> Rain or sun?
[16:42] <@DTC> Which one should we discuss first?
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> both?
[16:42] <%Raseri> sandstorm
[16:42] <@DTC> I'm thinking sun
[16:42] <+cbb> Sun
[16:42] <%shnen> rain and sun are close but not enough to go over the edge
[16:42] <%shnen> imo
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> ok sun
[16:42] <%Raseri> sun is a bitch
[16:42] <+cbb> Sun basically
[16:42] <@DTC> Okay so do we think sun as a playstyle is broken
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> eh
[16:42] <%Raseri> no
01[16:42] <@NatGeo> pretty close anyways
[16:42] <%shnen> I've used sun and seriously it was underwhelming
[16:42] <@DTC> With great abusers like Victreebell, Sawsbuck, Exeggutor, and Charizard?
[16:42] <+cbb> turns so many things from just good into unstoppable monsters
[16:43] <%shnen> to me anyway
01[16:43] <@NatGeo> it tips a lot of pokemon out of balance
01[16:43] <@NatGeo> yeah waht cbb said
[16:43] <%shnen> I was most likely using it wrong
[16:43] <+Djangoo> I thinks its broken with 8 turns
[16:43] <+Luck> tangela for sun abuser
[16:43] <+Luck> !
[16:43] <@DTC> I don't like using sun but it's a bitch to fight against
[16:43] <+cbb> sawsbuck and charizard are really hard to stop
[16:43] <%shnen> but it's not unbeatable at all
[16:43] <+cbb> and even harder to stop under sun
01[16:43] <@NatGeo> 8 turns is a lot
[16:43] <@DTC> nothing is unbeatable
[16:43] <%Raseri> ^
[16:43] <+cbb> yeah 8 turns
[16:43] <+Djangoo> well technically 7
01[16:43] <@NatGeo> what's your opinion on heat rock?
[16:43] <+Djangoo> but yeah
[16:43] <+Djangoo> it would be manageable with heat rock
[16:43] <@DTC> I wouldn't mind banning Heat Rock
[16:43] <+Djangoo> without*
[16:43] <+cbb> give stuff like sawsbuck JUST enough time to kill enough stuff even with predicted switches
[16:43] <%shnen> eh
[16:43] <%Raseri> neither would i
01[16:44] <@NatGeo> yeah if we didn't have heat rock
[16:44] <@DTC> Sun would pretty much disappear without heat rock
[16:44] <%shnen> I don't think it's bannable
[16:44] <+Djangoo> yeah its so much easier to predict for 3-4 turns
[16:44] <+Djangoo> then 6-7
[16:44] <@DTC> other than maybe sunny day lo eggy or something
01[16:44] <@NatGeo> i think weather
01[16:44] <@NatGeo> would be manageable
[16:44] <%shnen> although I'm very conservative with banning
01[16:44] <@NatGeo> ^
[16:44] <%shnen> I don't think most things are bannable
[16:44] <@DTC> I don't like running a bunch of weather checks
01[16:44] <@NatGeo> ^
[16:44] <@DTC> Like Altaria needs Cloud Nine to appropriately check Charizard
[16:44] <@DTC> Which is generally inferior to Natural Cure
[16:45] <%shnen> HP Ice charizard is the best anyway
[16:45] <@DTC> And it can hurt get hit by HP Ice (albeit bad to be locked into)
[16:45] <%shnen> speaking of which QC guys
[16:45] <%shnen> SET]
[16:45] <%shnen> name: Solar Power
[16:45] <%shnen> move 1: Fire Blast
[16:45] <%shnen> move 2: Air Slash
[16:45] <%shnen> move 3: Solarbeam / Focus Blast
[16:45] <%shnen> move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
[16:45] <%shnen> item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
[16:45] <%shnen> ability: Solar Power
[16:45] <%shnen> nature: Timid / Modest
[16:45] <%shnen> evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[16:45] <@DTC> Victreebell and Eggy are also monster sweepers
[16:45] <%shnen> is this the best set
[16:45] <%shnen> or should I change it a bit
[16:45] <@DTC> deslash hp grass
[16:45] <@DTC> not sure about using focus blast
[16:45] <+cbb> yeah hp grass is
[16:45] <+cbb> useless
[16:45] <+cbb> especially in sun
[16:45] <+Djangoo> separate specs and scarf
[16:45] <@DTC> move focus blast to ac imo
[16:45] <+Djangoo> they are completely different
[16:45] <%shnen> then I have to write 4 sets
[16:46] <%shnen> D:<
[16:46] <@DTC> wait, 4?
[16:46] <@DTC> don't you only have to write 2
[16:46] <@DTC> + choice scarf maybe
[16:46] <%shnen> superjocke kept bugging me to put SD on
[16:46] <@DTC> that's superjocke's problem
[16:46] <+cbb> sd is
[16:46] <+cbb> shit
[16:46] <+Djangoo> ^
[16:46] <%shnen> and the thing is why not
05[16:46] -blizzard.nl.eu.synirc.net:@#nucouncil- DTC invited Steamroll into the channel.
[16:46] <%shnen> if I put it on
[16:46] <%shnen> and it gets rejected
[16:46] <+Djangoo> unless they run Outrage too!!!
[16:46] <%shnen> no harm done
[16:46] <+Keiran> scarf, specs, lo, subroost,
12[16:46] * Steamroll (~Steamroll@I.aint.got.no.worries.cause.I.aint.in.no.hurry.at.all) has joined #nucouncil
[16:46] <@DTC> steamroll
[16:46] <@DTC> should SD be included on Zard?
[16:46] <%shnen> nah I'm doing LO roost
[16:46] <@DTC> the zard analysis
[16:47] <@DTC> Also, we're discussing sun atm
[16:47] <%shnen> steamroll also said it should
[16:47] <+Keiran> flame charge
[16:47] <%shnen> iirc
[16:47] <+cbb> FLAME CHARGE
[16:47] <%shnen> shush
[16:47] <+cbb> and cb
[16:47] <+cbb> !
[16:47] <@DTC> is scarf charizard actually good?
[16:47] <@DTC> I've never seen or used it
[16:47] <%shnen> I used it
[16:47] <%shnen> it's good
[16:47] <+Djangoo> yeah I used it a bit
[16:47] <+Djangoo> its better in sun
[16:47] <+Keiran> Outspeeding like everything is boss
[16:47] <@DTC> ok, put it as like the last set or something
[16:48] <@DTC> or before subroost
15[16:48] * NatGeo sets mode: +o Steamroll
[16:48] <@DTC> imo do: specs - lo roost - scarf - subroost
[16:48] <%shnen> I've had the most success with subroost actually funnily enough
09[16:48] * shnen was kicked by Steamroll (don't speak for me)
12[16:48] * shnen (shnen@fight.the.good.fight) has joined #nucouncil
[16:48] <@DTC> really?
15[16:48] * DTC sets mode: +v shnen
[16:48] <+shnen> LO roost has sub slashed on it
[16:48] <+shnen> move 1: Fire Blast
[16:48] <+shnen> move 2: Air Slash
[16:48] <+shnen> move 3: Roost
[16:48] <+shnen> move 4: Substitute / Focus Blast
[16:49] <+Luck> scarf zard isn't amazing but if you need a fast revenge killer with a lot of firepower and don't mind SR weakness is one of the best
01[16:49] <@NatGeo> ye
[16:49] <+Luck> ok that made no sense
[16:49] <@DTC> why use sub on lo charizard?
[16:49] <+cbb> it did not
[16:49] <+cbb> zebra is best scarfer
[16:49] <@Steamroll> lol
[16:49] <+cbb> js
[16:49] <+shnen> what
[16:49] <+Luck> remind the last part
[16:49] <+Luck> >remind
[16:49] <+shnen> subroost with LO is the best set
[16:49] <+Luck> remove***
[16:49] <@DTC> ok then
[16:49] <+cbb> I never used it but from what I've seen
[16:49] <@DTC> I hate lo + sub though
[16:49] <+shnen> I hated focus blast when I tried that but eh
[16:49] <+cbb> subroost LO is mad good
[16:49] <+cbb> js
[16:49] <@DTC> especially on something with a 4x weakness to sr
[16:49] <@DTC> but eh, that's my problem
[16:49] <@DTC> lol
[16:49] <+shnen> it also lets you get into blaze
[16:49] <+cbb> soooo
[16:49] <@DTC> anyways
[16:49] <+shnen> and fucking
[16:49] <+cbb> sun done??
[16:49] <+shnen> nuke stuff
[16:50] <@DTC> let's go back into sun
[16:50] <@DTC> So what is the general consenus?
[16:50] <+shnen> yeah there's more to discuss on sun
[16:50] <@DTC> spelled that wrong but w/e
[16:50] <+shnen> sorry for derailing
[16:50] <+Djangoo> sun is broken with 8 turns imo, should be manageable without heat rock
[16:50] <+shnen> so steamroll what are your thoughts on SD zard then
[16:50] <+cbb> ENSLAVE HEAT ROCK
01[16:50] <@NatGeo> :<
[16:50] <+cbb> etc
[16:50] <+shnen> if you don't want me to speak for you
[16:50] <@DTC> let's discuss a bit more on why you think it's broken
01[16:50] <@NatGeo> heat rock?
[16:50] <+shnen> I don't believe it to be broken
[16:50] <+Djangoo> the thing is
[16:50] <@DTC> do you think sun sweepers are noticeably better than normal sweeprs?
[16:50] <+Djangoo> no
[16:50] <+shnen> I've always found it to be managable
01[16:51] <@NatGeo> with the weather boost possibly
[16:51] <+Djangoo> without sun they are just as good
[16:51] <+cbb> charizard is
[16:51] <@DTC> no, I mean not them without weather
[16:51] <+Djangoo> but with the doubled speed they beomce that much harder to beat
[16:51] <@DTC> I mean normal sweepers outside the weather
[16:51] <+shnen> so like
[16:51] <@DTC> ok I think I'm explaining this terribly
[16:51] <@DTC> lol
[16:51] <+cbb> you mean
[16:51] <+Djangoo> yeah dtc are you on drugs
[16:51] <+shnen> the differences between
[16:51] <+cbb> is charizard better than magmortar??
[16:51] <+shnen> things like byss and jynx
[16:51] <@DTC> Morning Sun Rapidash is fun
[16:51] <+cbb> oh that was
[16:51] <+cbb> a shitty
[16:51] <+shnen> compared to sun sawsbuck
[16:51] <+shnen> ?
[16:51] <+cbb> comparison
[16:51] <+Djangoo> well like victrebell and eggy are not sweeping without sun up
[16:52] <@DTC> I usually use sunny day on eggy
[16:52] <+cbb> and yes I think charizard in sun is the best special attacker in the tier
01[16:52] <@NatGeo> i agree with this statement mostly
[16:52] <+shnen> yeah
[16:52] <+shnen> at least scarf cinccino beats it
[16:52] <+shnen> B)
[16:52] <@DTC> alright -- do you think that the support required to run these sun sweepers is worth it?
[16:53] <+shnen> that's my problem
[16:53] <+shnen> when I tried it it wasn't for me
[16:53] <+cbb> I wish I had used a sun team myself
[16:53] <+shnen> most likely my team was shit
[16:53] <+shnen> but eh
[16:53] <+cbb> but from what I've seen
[16:53] <+Djangoo> its not that hard to throw together 3-4 sweepers and some weather setters
[16:53] <+shnen> it's all the experience I have
[16:53] <+shnen> that's what I tried django
[16:53] <+Djangoo> not to mention stuff like volbeat exists
[16:53] <+shnen> it failed
[16:53] <+cbb> the 8 turns really let stuff like charizard and sawsbuck wreck everything
01[16:53] <@NatGeo> what djangoo said
[16:53] <+cbb> and I mean
[16:53] <+cbb> everything
[16:53] <+shnen> I used both volbeat and illumise
[16:53] <@DTC> LO Eggy is scary as well
01[16:53] <@NatGeo> basically 3 extra turns per setup
[16:53] <+Luck> lo eggy in sun
[16:53] <+shnen> so I was pretty much guarenteed to get sun up
01[16:53] <@NatGeo> is pretty scary
[16:53] <+Djangoo> yeah shnen don't use both lol
[16:53] <+Luck> stupidest shit ever
[16:54] <+shnen> but even then
[16:54] <+cbb> the 3 extra turns are
[16:54] <+cbb> HUGE
[16:54] <+Luck> use regirock as sun setter
[16:54] <+Luck> it's brilliant
[16:54] <+Djangoo> yeah I can predict most of the time for like 4 turns
[16:54] <@DTC> probo is also a good sun setter
[16:54] <+Djangoo> then something dies
[16:54] <+shnen> I also tried regi later
[16:54] <+Djangoo> because the predictions are 50/50
[16:54] <@DTC> but I like Regi's physical bulk
[16:54] <+shnen> but yeah I fail at playing sun
01[16:54] <@NatGeo> my team was
[16:54] <+shnen> I feel liek giving it another shot now actually
01[16:54] <@NatGeo> volbeat / illumise / zard / buck / victreebel / filler
[16:54] <@DTC> yeah, playtest it some more
[16:54] <+shnen> that was my team natgeo
[16:54] <+shnen> it sucked
[16:54] <+Djangoo> running both bugs is pointless imo
[16:55] <+shnen> badly
[16:55] <@DTC> yeah I agree with django
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> lol shnen
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> i used
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> ludicolo
[16:55] <+cbb> regirock over illumise
[16:55] <+cbb> !
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> as the fillet
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> *filler
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> it was actually decent
[16:55] <@DTC> My biggest beef with Charizard when I used it on a sun team
[16:55] <+shnen> ludicolo the best fillet
[16:55] <@DTC> Were those fucking Rapidash's
01[16:55] <@NatGeo> true
[16:55] <@DTC> And it was a bit challenging to get in
[16:56] <@DTC> But when it got in, it was incredibly dangerous
01[16:56] <@NatGeo> to sun yeah
[16:56] <@DTC> It's much more scary if you can get sr off the field as well
[16:56] <+Djangoo> well rapidash has died down a bit isnce no more research week
[16:56] <+cbb> incredibly dangerous as in
01[16:56] <@NatGeo> :(
[16:56] <+cbb> one KO per switch in??
[16:56] <+cbb> unless altaria??
[16:56] <+cbb> *cloud nine altaria
[16:56] <@DTC> ok so let's discuss rain