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(17:43) < mod6> i can understand with return codes: i.e. 0 = no error, so its state is balanced = Return OK. or 1 = Error, the state was unbalanced = Return Non-Zero.  But what about with conditionals or what no. Does While(0)
                { stuff; } or if(0) { // true stuff } else { // false stuff } seem strange and counter intuitive?
(17:43) < mod6> s/no/not
(17:44) < kakobrekla> i have seen error = -1
(17:44) < racnul-haldec> it won't really be an issue if we have %true and %fals.
(17:44) < mtp> i don't even know how to represent a while loop in urbit
(17:44) < racnul-haldec> do we?
(17:44) < mtp> we have .y and .n
(17:44) < mod6> sure, kakobrekla; this is normal. -1 is non-zero, so error.
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(17:45) < mtp> > `@ud`.n
(17:45) < mtp> 1
(17:45) < racnul-haldec> that works
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(17:45) < mod6> i don't know how to loop in hoon at all, but just because i don't doesn't mean i wont have to test conditions at some point. which means that im asking for bugs because the convention is flipped.
(17:46) < mtp> but the convention isn't flipped
(17:46) < mtp> sh -c "true; echo $?"
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(17:47) < mod6> are you trying to tell me that inany other language that "while(0) { // will get you here? }"
(17:47) < racnul-haldec> it's different from basically every other programming languange
(17:47) < mtp> except for shell
(17:47) < mod6> but ask yourself "why did we make this different?" did you make it different for troll sake or just because it makes more sense?
(17:47) < mtp> mod6' no, i'm trying to tell you that /your/ convention is flipped, not hoon's
(17:48) < mod6> so what you're saying is that every other way that anyone has ever done anything is wrong. and this is actually correct?
(17:48) < racnul-haldec> well the shell is written in C, and 0 is false in C, so... there?
(17:48) < mtp> and i didn't make it different, so your premise is invalid, therefore monkeys and bananas
(17:48) < mtp> racnul-haldec' 0 is true if you're comparing strings
(17:48) < mtp> :)
(17:48) < mtp> also vere is written in c, therefore,
(17:48) < racnul-haldec> touche
(17:48) < mtp> mod6' no, but further words on my part will just confuse you
(17:49) < mod6> hhah apparently.
(17:49) < mod6> im not smart enough for this.
(17:50) < mtp> try learning it
(17:50) < mod6> lol i am!
(17:50) < mtp> i started with learning how to pronounce the symbols
(17:50) < mod6> and im like O_O wtf?!
(17:51) < mtp> other suggestions i've heard: try writing an adder; try running the code; try reading the kernel
(17:51) < mod6> if im having a hard time making heads or tails of the mnumonics, i was hoping to rely on some sort of math based convention to get me past the symbolic wackyness
(17:51) < mod6> mtp: ok. learn by doing on this one then huh.
(17:52) < mtp> you said it, not me