Lyra tries to threaten Faerzen

[23:48]  * snuffshotMartyr began pestering visceralVanguard [VV]
[23:48] <@snuffshotMartyr> Good news and bad news
[23:48] <@snuffshotMartyr> Good: Rules-lawyering works
[23:48] <@snuffshotMartyr> Bad: I'm pretty sure it's playing with me, letting me think I've won and waiting to drop the penny
[23:51] <visceralVanguard> That does seem likely.
[23:51] <visceralVanguard> In fact, that is almost certainly the case.
[23:51] <@snuffshotMartyr> Yeah
[23:52] <visceralVanguard> From what you have said, it does seem to like to play coy and be mildly deceptive.
[23:52] <@snuffshotMartyr> But that's okay.  I can deal with that
[23:52] <visceralVanguard> What do you mean by rules lawyering works?
[23:52] <visceralVanguard> And what do you mean by you can deal with that?
[23:52] <@snuffshotMartyr> I made up some BS about the technical wording we used, said it didn't get a say in what happened at all
[23:53] <@snuffshotMartyr> Now it's humoring me, letting me decide what I think my payment should be
[23:53] <@snuffshotMartyr> And that buys me time, which is the *real* goal for this whole thing
[23:53] <@snuffshotMartyr> One disaster at a time, right?
[23:53] <visceralVanguard> It probably just wants to hear what you have to say so that it can chuckle condescendingly and then tell you what is actually going to happen.
[23:53] <visceralVanguard> Yeah, I suppose that is a way to go about this.
[23:54] <@snuffshotMartyr> Exactly, yeah
[23:54] <visceralVanguard> I am on my way to talk to the white queen or some other higher up officer and get their take on what the black queen's motives are
[23:54] <@snuffshotMartyr> Good, good
[23:54] <@snuffshotMartyr> Just make sure they don't take action
[23:54] <visceralVanguard> To try and find out where you might be held, what she intends to do with you, and if her killing you is a danger at the moment
[23:54] <visceralVanguard> Why do you say that?
[23:54] <@snuffshotMartyr> Hah
[23:55] <@snuffshotMartyr> Her killing me isn't an issue
[23:55] <visceralVanguard> How do you know that?
[23:55] <@snuffshotMartyr> I've got the upper hand right now.  Outside influence would screw me over more than anything
[23:55] <visceralVanguard> The upper hand?
[23:55] <@snuffshotMartyr> Eeyup
[23:55] <visceralVanguard> You are stuck in a cage and cannot move.
[23:55] <@snuffshotMartyr> Eeyup
[23:55] <visceralVanguard> That hardly seems like the upper hand.
[23:55] <@snuffshotMartyr> D'you know what zugzwang is?
[23:56] <visceralVanguard> I haven't the slightest clue
[23:56] <@snuffshotMartyr> It's a chess term
[23:56] <@snuffshotMartyr> It means you're in a good position, but now it's your turn, and any move you make will screw you over
[23:57] <@snuffshotMartyr> Think of it this way
[23:57] <visceralVanguard> I can see that being applicable at the moment, except replace "good" with "not atrocious"
[23:57] <@snuffshotMartyr> Not me.  The queen
[23:57] <visceralVanguard> Oh
[23:57] <@snuffshotMartyr> SHE's in zugzwang
[23:57] <visceralVanguard> I see
[23:57] <visceralVanguard> Why?
[23:57] <@snuffshotMartyr> Everything to lose and nothing to gain
[23:57] <@snuffshotMartyr> I'm in a cage, yeah, but that's as bad as it can get for me
[23:58] <visceralVanguard> What is preventing her from killing you?
[23:58] <@snuffshotMartyr> Hard to say for sure
[23:58] <visceralVanguard> If she wants us to fail in this game, that seems a rather effective way to hinder our progress
[23:58] <@snuffshotMartyr> Maybe its because even she isn't that stupid
[23:58] <visceralVanguard> Stupid?
[23:58] <@snuffshotMartyr> Admittedly, she's pretty dumb
[23:58] <visceralVanguard> Why would it be stupid to kill you?
[23:58] <@snuffshotMartyr> Dude
[23:59] <@snuffshotMartyr> It might suck, but Derse is still a political campaign
[23:59] <@snuffshotMartyr> You can't just kill your rival nobles
[00:00] <@snuffshotMartyr> That's not a thing you can do
[00:00] <visceralVanguard> I'm not sure I see why
[00:01] <visceralVanguard> From what I've gathered from other Derse dreamers, the Dersites don't think highly of the players who dream on Derse
[00:01] <visceralVanguard> You're political rivals
[00:01] <visceralVanguard> You have opposite goals when it comes to this game
[00:01] <visceralVanguard> Eliminating you furthers her goals and makes both her and the general populace happier
[00:01] <visceralVanguard> I see no negatives from this
[00:02] <@snuffshotMartyr> Here's one
[00:02] <@snuffshotMartyr> If I don't need to spend a third of my time on Derse, I can fight back more effectively from my other two bodies.
[00:02] <@snuffshotMartyr> Here's two
[00:03] <@snuffshotMartyr> The cardinal sin of politics is killing your opponents.  Because it means you couldn't manage subterfuge and had to resort to muscling your way into position.
[00:03] <@snuffshotMartyr> That's not a good thing to portray when you're at war.  Using your army for personal gain?
[00:04] <visceralVanguard> I don't think it's personal in this case though
[00:04] <@snuffshotMartyr> Hmm?
[00:09] <visceralVanguard> It is my understanding that the whole kindgom of Derse exists to try and make us fail
[00:09] <visceralVanguard> That is the purpose of the war, in some regards
[00:09] <visceralVanguard> It would just be another avenue towards victory
[00:10] <visceralVanguard> Not just personally, but for the kingdom as a while
[00:10] <visceralVanguard> I am not certain about this, and that is why I would like to speak to the white queen, or some other knowledgeable officer
[00:10] <@snuffshotMartyr> I didn't get that vibe, but I can't really prove it either way
[00:10] <visceralVanguard> But it is a possibility
[00:10] <@snuffshotMartyr> Let's leave that one until you can talk to her for now
[00:10] <visceralVanguard> At this point, we're both guessing, and I would prefer that not be the case
[00:10] <visceralVanguard> I agree
[00:11] <@snuffshotMartyr> Third reason.  The queen is vain.
[00:11] <@snuffshotMartyr> If I get killed, my last memory will be knowing I had her in such a bad position that she needed to kill me
[00:11] <@snuffshotMartyr> I have a solid feeling that isn't a thing she'll stand for
[00:12] <visceralVanguard> But again, that isn't necessarily the case
[00:12] <visceralVanguard> We will need to see
[00:12] <visceralVanguard> You make it sound like a situation of desperation for her to kill you
[00:12] <@snuffshotMartyr> Yeah
[00:12] <visceralVanguard> As though she has no choice
[00:12] <@snuffshotMartyr> She's in zugzwang, remember?
[00:12] <@snuffshotMartyr> Everything else turns out even worse
[00:12] <visceralVanguard> But as we discussed, it is entirely possible that she isn't and that you simply think she is
[00:13] <visceralVanguard> Again, why I would like to discuss this with Prospit authorities
[00:13] <visceralVanguard> But I agree for now, drastic action on either of our parts would be inadvisable
[00:13] <@snuffshotMartyr> Thank you
[00:13] <@snuffshotMartyr> I said it to Tarane and Alex, so I'll say it to you too
[00:13] <visceralVanguard> I would hardly say "we have things under control"
[00:13] <visceralVanguard> But I agree acting brashly is unwise
[00:14] <@snuffshotMartyr> If you rescue me, I'll strangle you in your sleep, then kill myself too
[00:14] <@snuffshotMartyr> So don't.  Deal?
[00:14] <visceralVanguard> I see no reason why that is beneficial to you to carry out, other than to use a threat right now
[00:14] <@snuffshotMartyr> Threat is right
[00:14] <visceralVanguard> And I am saddened that you find it necessary to threaten me
[00:14] <visceralVanguard> When I gave you my word
[00:14] <@snuffshotMartyr> I absolutely need to know for a fact, *for myself*, that there will be no miraculous rescue
[00:15] <visceralVanguard> Until I find out more information, there will be no miraculous rescue
[00:15] <visceralVanguard> I give you my word
[00:15] <@snuffshotMartyr> Thank you
[00:15] <@snuffshotMartyr> And I'm sorry for implying I can't trust you
[00:16] <visceralVanguard> It's okay, we've hardly even met
[00:16] <@snuffshotMartyr> I just need to know that anything that looks like a rescue is going to result in death
[00:16] <visceralVanguard> And even then, it was under conditions of dubious consent
[00:16] <@snuffshotMartyr> You coulda done a lot worse
[00:17] <visceralVanguard> As I said, after hypothetical rescue is carried out, I see no benefit in you carrying through with said threat. The deed is done and all you are doing is hurting yourself.
[00:17] <visceralVanguard> But again, I give you my word.
[00:17] <@snuffshotMartyr> It's a game theory thing
[00:17] <@snuffshotMartyr> I have to eliminate the possibility of a rescue that I survive
[00:18] <visceralVanguard> Oh, I completely understand game theory, believe me
[00:18] <@snuffshotMartyr> If I back out after the fact, that means the rescue could conceivably happen in the first place
[00:18] <visceralVanguard> What I am saying is that that tactic only works if your threat is seen as credible and strong, and I do not think it would actually come to that if it would require it.
[00:18] <visceralVanguard> I will keep you posted
[00:18] <visceralVanguard> I am at the castle now
[00:18] <@snuffshotMartyr> Thank you
[00:18] <visceralVanguard> Talk to you later
[00:18] <@snuffshotMartyr> And good luck
[00:19]  * visceralVanguard [VV] bid farewell to snuffshotMartyr [SM]