[09:20:57] <randomg> hmmm
[09:21:06] <randomg> i still want emps nerfed
[09:21:18] <randomg> i've been playing WF more and they still seem OP
[09:21:40] <randomg> http://www.crunchy.com/?q=content/unable-connect-using-name-gmail-accountsish
[09:31:05] <Zed> randomg: How
[09:31:09] <randomg> ?
[09:31:12] <Zed> OP
[09:31:28] <randomg> the second jump is just too high
[09:31:40] <Zed> Why does a class w/o any invinc frames not deserve mobility to dodge things
[09:32:00] <randomg> it does
[09:32:07] <Zed> You're just being a butthead about it because WF is vertical mobility king
[09:32:11] <Zed> :(
[09:32:30] <randomg> i don't think they should be removed
[09:32:37] <randomg> just cut the second jump in half
[09:32:58] <randomg> i want to see blasts get 2,3,4 air pops
[09:32:58] <Zed> Makes a) no sense
[09:33:10] <zxcv> why do I even grind FF for HP
[09:33:14] <Zed> And would b) take too much dev time to calculate the jump height
[09:33:15] <zxcv> I instadie 100% of the time...
[09:33:29] <Zed> As in, implement it
[09:34:18] <randomg> how so zed
[09:34:26] <randomg> it already has varying jump heights
[09:34:32] <randomg> jump 2 != jump 1
[09:34:48] <randomg> i want emps nerfed for DW as well
[09:34:51] <zxcv> FF open for boss
[09:35:30] <randomg> i want an upward warp
[09:35:36] <randomg> and i want whip climbing
[09:35:48] <randomg> if anything, they should share wall jump/slide boots
[09:36:00] <Zed> I still don't see any valid reason for emps to be nerfed
[09:36:15] <Zed> Wall jumps are practically useless when mobility is *needed*
[09:36:47] <Zed> Slide is 100% useless in a side-scroller
[09:39:39] <randomg> i don't think so
[09:39:49] <randomg> game is not purely a sidescroller
[09:39:55] <randomg> it's closer to a beat em up
[09:39:56] <Zed> But mainly
[09:40:14] <Zed> Literally every level is mostly horizontal
[09:41:14] <randomg> on a macro level, sure
[09:41:23] <randomg> but each encounter is basically boxed
[09:41:32] <randomg> fire forest, base, cave
[09:41:35] <randomg> yard for sure
[09:41:43] <randomg> would all benefit from wall jumps
[09:42:14] <Zed> Wouldn't
[09:42:17] <randomg> i dno't understand why moderately nerfed emps
[09:42:25] <randomg> combined with double or triple blasts
[09:42:29] <randomg> would not be advantageous
[09:42:37] <Zed> If anything, make emps rarer again
[09:42:53] <randomg> or give them % jmp and scale them properly
[09:43:02] <randomg> like every other item
[09:43:17] <randomg> who gives a shit about jump height on emps
[09:43:22] <randomg> or move speed
[09:43:36] <randomg> make second jump 25-100% of first jump
[09:43:43] <randomg> as a rollable
[09:43:46] <Zed> Nobody does on the properly scaled hyrsts and equipoise, either
[09:43:58] <Zed> You only look for the bonuses that aren't mobility stats
[09:43:59] <randomg> nobod cares about hyrsts or equipoise period
[09:44:07] <Zed> I do
[09:44:08] <randomg> maybe hyrsts for crit
[09:44:47] <randomg> any equipoise is outclassed by any emp
[09:44:50] <randomg> it's not even close
[09:45:06] <randomg> 2% crit or get out of jail free?
[09:45:09] <randomg> i know which i'm picking
[09:46:52] <Zed> Which would be completely fine if they wouldn't drop next to every strands run
[09:47:08] <Zed> They are supposed to be a straight upgrade to equipoise, as most other equips are
[09:47:29] <randomg> making cool stuff rarer is a shit solution
[09:47:34] <randomg> it's always been a shit solution
[09:47:41] <randomg> and it always will be a shit solution
[09:47:59] <randomg> we should have a teleporting grenade like toaster that drops at .1% from sprite world
[09:48:00] <randomg> err
[09:48:03] <Zed> With this, I feel like it's a perfect solution
[09:48:07] <randomg> then you can try it and die immediately
[09:48:08] <Zed> You don't need the air jump
[09:48:20] <randomg> you guys say you need it every day for strands
[09:48:27] <randomg> it's not hella useful elsewhere
[09:48:29] <Zed> You can live off - and we did until the loot patch - of equipoise just fine
[09:48:50] <zxcv> running wurm for HP now
[09:48:53] <zxcv> cave open left
[09:49:24] <Zed> Getting a pair of empyreals should feel rewarding; as you said, it boosts survivability by a ton
[09:49:25] <randomg> and we ran strands how often?
[09:49:40] <Zed> Never, because there wasn't any loot
[09:50:01] <Zed> Literally not a single chest besides miniboss and boss
[09:50:25] <randomg> and because it killed everyone...
[09:50:43] <randomg> if loot is rare poeple will hoard it instead of learn to use it
[09:50:50] <randomg> maybe not you, but in general
[09:51:01] <Zed> I'm not saying make it rare-rare
[09:51:02] <randomg> you will already see implants getting hoardded
[09:51:20] <Zed> But do not let it stay get-one-every-one-rare
[09:51:31] <Zed> *every-run
[09:51:54] <Zed> randomg: That largely depends on the implant
[09:52:01] <Zed> And I feel that's completely justified
[09:52:23] <Zed> Games without anything to attain or be proud of get stale real quick
[09:52:53] <randomg> deeds
[09:52:56] <randomg> more bosses/more deeds
[09:53:03] <Zed> Deeds are just a number
[09:53:11] <randomg> deeds are all that matter
[09:53:23] <randomg> how you approach the boss should be a function of what dungeons youve run on the way
[09:53:24] <Zed> Do you feel special about your [5] anymore?
[09:53:31] <Zed> No, you don't
[09:53:32] <randomg> no, but i sure want my six
[09:53:39] <Zed> Other people will get it
[09:53:50] <randomg> but i don't give a shit if someone else has bolt
[09:53:50] <Zed> And you'll start not caring after a few days of having attained it
[09:53:52] <randomg> or maxed poly
[09:53:58] <randomg> or whatever
[09:54:02] <randomg> if i get one i don't care if i die with it
[09:54:07] <randomg> if you make that shit super rare
[09:54:13] <Zed> After all, it doesn't do anything
[09:54:13] <randomg> i'll just quit beacuse i already have a job
[09:54:23] <randomg> i want to fight bosses, not the RNG
[09:54:33] <randomg> if i've conquered the content why would i play anymore?
[09:54:57] <randomg> if i beat strands miniboss once i don't want to fight it 50 more times to get emps
[09:55:02] <randomg> that's fucking *boring*
[09:55:11] <randomg> and it's why realm turned to shit
[09:55:32] <Zed> People still do it
[09:55:35] <randomg> why not have it drop 25% emps fairly often, which are enough to pull your ass out of the fire
[09:55:46] <randomg> and then get hype when you get 75s or 100s, like AP
[09:55:47] <Zed> Because grinding is compelling if there's something in for you at the end
[09:56:13] <randomg> do you want compelling or do you want fun?
[09:56:20] <randomg> crack is compelling
[09:56:40] <Zed> I get the best of both worlds playing StarBreak atm
[09:57:13] <randomg> agree
[09:57:21] <Zed> Rebuilding after death is fun, shooting for rare stuff and server first kills is compelling
[09:57:27] <randomg> agree
[09:57:41] <randomg> i suppose we have different ideas of what rare should be
[09:57:55] <Zed> I already said I don't want them to be rare-rare
[09:58:13] <Zed> But as it is, every hippie that enters a strands and leeches has empyreals
[09:58:30] <Zed> They are OP for how common they are, I completely agree
[09:59:19] <randomg> so instead of making them rare overall, why not make them worse to start?
[09:59:30] <randomg> you can still get used to jumping twice, just not that well
[09:59:39] <randomg> do you still get hype if you find 100% soidal?
[09:59:46] <randomg> even though soidal is common?
[09:59:51] <Zed> I don't
[10:00:04] <randomg> why not?
[10:00:10] <randomg> b/c the sprite is the same?
[10:00:26] <Zed> Because idgaf about soidal w/o double shot for anything but securon
[10:00:30] <randomg> okay
[10:00:33] <randomg> double shot
[10:00:37] <randomg> whatever the chic stat is
[10:00:41] <Zed> Hype, because rare
[10:00:46] <randomg> (for me, 100% ap abiding is this)
[10:00:49] <Zed> and useful
[10:01:16] <randomg> so the fact that base, crappy soidals drop does not stop you from being hype about *really* good soidals, which are very rare
[10:02:08] <Zed> I do get your point, don't misunderstand
[10:02:38] <randomg> i know
[10:02:41] <randomg> i'm not tryign to condescend
[10:02:42] <Zed> But getting those base, crappy equipment drops takes away from the fun for me
[10:02:52] <randomg> it does now, because you're jaded
[10:03:04] <Zed> I'd rather get nothing at all than having to leave a shitty equipment drop behind
[10:03:26] <randomg> that's why i think the tiers should scale up as you go through
[10:03:27] <Zed> Which is why I'm actually growing more fond of EC chests - as crazy as that might sound
[10:03:40] <randomg> b/c shop?
[10:03:42] <Zed> Yes, better loot chance in later screens
[10:04:16] <Zed> Or maybe a base loot quality for specific drop locations and dungeon difficulties
[10:04:51] <Zed> semi-reintroduce item tiers, make harder dungeons have a slim chance of dropping gear from previous dungeons but with a guaranteed decent modifier
[10:05:23] <Zed> Purely for example, if you were to nerf/change empyreals
[10:05:39] <Zed> If they drop from yard, make them have guaranteed 50%
[10:05:46] <Zed> Strands 25%
[10:06:21] <Zed> (Not quite sure where I'm going with this, kind of just rambling on while trying to play at the same time lol)
[10:06:26] <randomg> i get what your'e saying
[10:06:43] <randomg> but if the weapons are truly different
[10:06:56] <randomg> item tiers force a certain playstyle at the highest level
[10:07:01] <randomg> adn that's what i want to fundamentally avoid
[10:07:09] <randomg> if everyone wants emps
[10:07:13] <randomg> and only emps
[10:07:16] <randomg> emps are broken
[10:07:27] <randomg> and equipoise shouldn't be in the game at all if that is going to stay the case
[10:07:56] <randomg> if this is a roguelike your playstyle should be a function of your journey
[10:08:10] <randomg> elevated emps should be, on par, equal with elevated equipoise
[10:08:18] <randomg> more useful in some situations, less in others
[10:09:12] <randomg> experimental necre should be just as useful, situationally, as an experimental poly
[10:09:17] <randomg> etc
[10:09:20] <randomg> and just as rare
[10:09:49] <randomg> i should be hype to see 'exp' pop up in a weapon description no matter what
[10:09:50] <Zed> Idea: Give equipoise a sprint when pressing shift
[10:10:39] <randomg> i'm into that
[10:10:54] <Zed> Also, I fully agree
[10:10:57] <randomg> as much as you don't like them(and shouldn't)
[10:11:04] <randomg> i'd also like knuckles/spike shoes
[10:11:05] <Zed> But weapon/equipment balance is really hard to figure out
[10:11:18] <randomg> i see a ton of utility
[10:11:24] <Zed> As in, if all weapons are sidegrades
[10:11:47] <Zed> There would be little to no incentive to go to harder levels to obtain their respective weapons
[10:11:54] <Zed> Unless they fit your playstyle
[10:11:57] <randomg> i don't think there should be harder levels
[10:12:04] <randomg> (wait before you crucify me)
[10:12:11] <Zed> Yeah, go ahead
[10:12:13] <randomg> i think that at base, all levels should be equivalent
[10:12:19] <randomg> i think as you go from the base level
[10:12:20] <randomg> through elite
[10:12:23] <randomg> to whateverthefuck
[10:12:28] <randomg> the experience should get harder
[10:12:39] <randomg> you should able to pull three to four deeds per level
[10:12:50] <randomg> bronze/silver/gold, whatever
[10:12:58] <randomg> right now, damage normalized
[10:13:02] <randomg> no level is harder than another
[10:13:05] <randomg> it's all artificial
[10:13:22] <randomg> but elite FF is noticably more dangerous than regular FF
[10:13:45] <randomg> i should be aiming for 6 platinum deeds
[10:13:55] <Zed> That's because of the unnatural spike in normalized damage
[10:14:04] <randomg> as you go to the harder dungeons you'll pull the better versions of loot
[10:14:07] <Zed> And the "you're going to get hit" attack patterns in there
[10:14:15] <randomg> yes
[10:14:28] <randomg> i don't claim this is easy to fix
[10:14:32] <randomg> but to do anythign less is a cop out