Sibel Edmonds Gladio B Part 1 Subtitles [EN] Raw TXT

♪ (Intro Music) ♪

Welcome. This is
James Corbett of CorbettReport.com.

It is the 30th of January, 2013
here in Japan;

and today I'm joined on the line
from the United States

by BoilingFrogsPost.com founder
and editor Sibel Edmonds,

our good friend who has been
on this podcast many times before.

So Sibel, thank you so much
for taking the time today.

Sure.

This is gonna be a very,
very interesting interview.

I've been looking forward to this...

to this interview.

Me, too. But it is a bit overwhelming.
It's almost intimidating,

because the topic we're talking about
is so large, so vast,

involves so many characters that

a lot of the audience probably
won't be familiar with,

that it's a bit daunting to know
where to even begin with this.

So I guess we should explain

that we're picking up from a conversation
that I had with Tom Secker

a week or two ago on The Corbett Report

talking about Gladio and the
history of Operation Gladio,

the NATO stay-behind operation.

So people who want more on the details
of Gladio itself and its history

as a historical entity in Europe might
want to check out that conversation.

But today we're going to be picking
up from that to talk about

specifically how Gladio unfolded,

and morphed into

what it currently is in Turkey.

And how it's operating...

-- well, how it's basically morphed
into a different type of operation,

but is using a lot of the same strategies
and methods to continue...

-- well, moving into different areas

such as false-flag terrorism
in the Islamic terrorism context,

and also drug-running.

It's, again, a huge subject to tackle.

So perhaps we should start

by talking about the way

that the NATO stay-behind
Gladio operation

was transported to Turkey,

and they way that it originally
started there, as a ultranationalist --

or, a way to puppeteer the
ultranationalists

in their terrorist movement.

Sure. One slight correction,

and that is:

the field of operation for Gladio,

well, is pretty much global,

with a large concentration...

-- main concentration in the last,
I would say, 15, 16 years --

Central Asia, Caucasus,
and the Balkans.

And it started with the Balkans.

So the field of operation actually
has nothing to do with Turkey itself.

There is really nothing;
because Turkey is where the powers

-- that being NATO, US,
United Kingdom --

where they want
-- these countries want -- to be.

That's for Turkey.

So the fields of operation

are basically Central Asia...

-- the former Soviet bloc
space, basically.

And the operations control centers...

of course, the main one,

the top layer being in the United States,

with major arteries connecting it

to United Kingdom; to Britain.

And you have Belgium;

and then you have Turkey.

So -- being in, maybe, the primary;

then the secondary;

and then the third layer being in Turkey

via Turkish actors there: both military

-- not nearly as much any longer --

but also by very large...

what they refer to as

the "Islamic factions,"

several different Islamic factions.

Well, I stand happily
corrected on that point.

And you're right to bring that out:
Of course the field of operations

is all over that Central Asia/Caucasus
region. And we have talked about this

a little bit in some of our previous
conversations. But today, let's hone in

on some of the characters and people
who have been connected to this.

And there are lots of things to talk about.
I'm not sure where you want to start,

but there are, of course, operations like
the Grey Wolves

and others that have been
in Turkey for decades;

that have done this type of
operation in the past,

and characters like Abdullah Çatlı

who has been involved in this

and who has been all over

in a very interesting life

that ended in the Susurluk scandal
in 1996

-- in quite an interesting fashion. I'm
not sure where you want to start

that story, but perhaps you could paint a
picture for the listeners about how this

really developed, and where it went
up until that point in the mid-1990s.

Sure.

Turkey always was the most important
center, country,

in all this, Gladio operations,

before the fall of the Soviet Union.

It's interesting because when I go

and read what's available

to public online

-- which is very, very little on Gladio:
that's why I was ecstatic

when you had your interview on Gladio
a week ago --

and what you see

is usually things like Italy.

It's, like, Gladio and Italy

and how it unfolded,

how it was disbanded,

et cetera, et cetera.

But you don't see much on Turkey,

and Turkey was the most important,

the most important

operations center for Gladio.

And obviously, it's because of,

A. Its geographic location:

Just take a look at Turkey on the map.

And if you're looking

for that period of time

before the fall of the Soviet Union,

from the Black Sea it goes eastern:

you're looking at all the former
Soviet blocs in there.

And then, again, its position

within the Middle East,

and the other side
being connected to Europe.

So Turkey always had the most position

within this Gladio operation

until... before the fall of
the Soviet Union.

And that you don't see.

There are very few articles

written out there scattered.

There's one good one by
Le Monde [Diplomatique]

which was concentrating mainly

on the actors you just mentioned:

Abdullah Çatlı and Susurluk incident.

And you have couple of authors

in Switzerland and in England
who have written about this.

Nothing: nothing here,
in the United States, on that.

So, I'll give you a little bit of history,

because you covered a lot of this

with your previous guest.

But this history is going to
concentrate more

on the character that we're
gonna be talking about

and the Turkish side on this:

Gladio operations,

until the fall of the Soviet Union.

And in Turkey,

there were two prime groups

that were working within Gladio network

and carrying out

some of the most important operations:

in Western Europe;

in Northern Europe;

and mainly in Eastern Bloc.

And that was:

1. The formal, official Turkish military.

And that is made up:

both Turkish military

and the Turkish military intelligence,

directly connected to NATO, Brussels,

and within the Gladio operations.

But then, beneath the military

-- Turkish official military --

you had the paramilitary force.

Who were these people?

And that's very, very interesting.
These people...

Again, you look at some of the articles,
and people talking about it:

Yeah, they are saying,
"They are ultranationalists."

But what kind of jobs did they have?

Who were these people who were
recruited by Turkish military,

trained, and absorbed into NATO's...

-- US/NATO's --

Gladio operations?

Well, a lot of these people, actually:
in 1980s, they were in jail.

They had positions that were...

the best way to describe them

would be the Godfathers in Turkey.

"Babas."

That's how they refer to them in Turkey:

the babas, which means the Godfathers.

They were the top people

who ran blackmail,

heroin operations.

And even back then, it was...

Turkey has always been

the most important artery

in moving heroin into Europe,

whether it came

through the borders through Iran,

or it came via some Kurdish factions

coming through Iraq...

So Turkey has always been important.

And these babas ran...

-- and military did, too.
Turkish military did, too --

But they were also ultranationalists;

but they were
secularist ultranationalists.

They put Atatürk...

-- the father of Turkey,
the father of modern Turkey --

in, basically, the place of God.

And of course

Atatürk advocated secularism

-- forced secularism.

And I have to emphasize this:
forced secularism.

And these guys,

even when I was growing up in Turkey,

they were very easy to identify.

They usually wore this mustache

that really resembled the
Hitler mustache,

and they had salutes that were like...

for Grey Wolves, that was like this:

And their babas were in jail.

And these guys had informants all over:

not only in Turkey, but in elsewhere.

So, as part of Gladio's plan,

Turkish military, Turkish police,
Turkish intelligence forces:

they took all these notorious...

-- I mean, these are psychopaths,
sociopaths!

these people are mass-murderers --

they took them out of those prisons.

And they said, "You know what?"

"Now you are going to..."

"-- with your skills, with what you do,
with what you know --"

"you are going to serve the State."

And that is Turkey,

and the Great Turkishness.

And Great Turkishness is also being
protected by the West, because,

"The Communist is out there:"
"They're gonna take us over."

"Then we have these issues with
the Kurdish people..."

"And meanwhile, you can also
fill out your own pockets."

"You can still be big; you can still
be Godfather,"

"but your main role..."

" -- and this is why we are releasing you,
bringing you out -- is going to be"

"serving us for all these operations"

So these guys were removed,

they were sent to various centers,
including in Brussels.

And they received training,
both via Turkish military,

via US-NATO forces...

And they were given
diplomatic passports.

Not only Turkish passports,

but passports from various countries.

And they still moved...

worked in the area
where you move heroin;

but also weapons smuggling,

mass murders,
a lot of false flag attacks.

Not only inside Turkey,

but in other countries as well.

And again, your guest
talked about some of these:

the assassination attempts, the Pope,
et cetera, et cetera.

And they also filled out
their own pockets.

So, these were the characters.

Now, it's very interesting:

You'd say...
-- or, a lot of people would say --

"Well, this was before:"

"during Communism."

"And we also did things with mujahideens"

"and Bin Laden in Afghanistan."

And, also:

"It deals a lot with Turkish politics,"

"so why should that interest people
here in the United States?"

And... because this is as much

as they know, or they read, or they hear.

So, what happens after the fall
of the Soviet Union?

Well, the character you just mentioned,

Abdullah Çatlı:

he's one of the main foot-soldiers,

one of the main commandos

under the military

-- which is Turkish military --

...which is under NATO and
the United States.

One of the most notorious figures.

I mean, this guy was responsible

in and outside Turkey

of tens of thousands of murders.

Bombs...

-- in some cases they would just

storm a house with medical
students in Turkey

and they would cut everybody's heads.

And those people were accused of

advocating for socialism or communism.

This guy,

he actually ends up

on the list of most wanted...

-- INTERPOL's most wanted list, OK? --

for various reasons.

Murders...

international murders,
not only murders in Turkey.

We are looking at INTERPOL's
most wanted, right?

Heroin smuggling, weapons smuggling...

So he's on the top ten most wanted people;

and this is post-Soviet Union.

And he ends up in a jail,

in a high-security prison in Switzerland.

He gets arrested during one of his
movement's operations.

And when you look at

some of the reporting on this guy

-- including the newspapers, or the
articles written on the Grey Wolves --

it says: while he was in this

high-security prison in Switzerland

-- this is Abdullah Çatlı --

he escaped.

He actually escaped

by support of helicopter.

So you're in a high-security prison

in Switzerland

and you mysteriously escape

via helicopter.

And some more detailed stories

from very few reporters

who followed up and wrote on this:

and that was a NATO-owned helicopter!

I mean, this really sounds
like a movie plot,

something that Hollywood would make.

And so, yeah:

this is the most wanted INTERPOL guy.

It gets even stranger:

Same guy,

while still wanted after he escapes

-- NATO helicopter from high-security
Swiss prison --

he mysteriously ends up in England.

In London. OK?

And again, mysteriously,

in 1989, the government

-- UK government --

grants him citizenship!

Hah!

It's not even one year
since he enters the UK.

He is still the most wanted
on INTERPOL's list.

And then, within a year after that,

this same guy, Abdullah Çatlı,

flies over, comes to the United States
-- and this is around 1990, 1991 --

comes to Chicago,

and is mysteriously given

an American passport!

-- an American Green Card;
this is not passport yet --

And during all this time,

he is among the top ten most wanted
people by INTERPOL.

Now, the first question people
should ask...

-- especially those who say,

"Ah, this is about some..."

"during Cold War and Communism,"

"and it's Turkish internal politics..." :

Why the most wanted guy by Interpol

-- a notorious murderer, drug-runner --

ends up in England

of all the places,

and gets a citizenship?

Why he comes to the United States

and is given another citizenship?

So, that's the first questions

listeners should be asking.

And, why Chicago is where he settles?
-- and that's where he settles.

And when he settles there,

he has dozens

of entries and exits from Chicago.

And after the Susurluk scandal,

-- which, I'm gonna get into it --

it basically comes out,

with all those investigations
they had in Turkey

that from Chicago,

he carried out all these operations

in Central Asia, Caucasus,

Eastern Europe,

Xinjiang province of China.

So he kept flying...

-- while he's still most wanted
by INTERPOL.

We don't know how and why
he got all those citizenships

while he's most wanted,

and why he carried

four or five diplomatic passports.

Nobody gets into those questions.

And these diplomatic passports

are not, only, given to him

by government of Turkey.

So he... one of his trips...
-- again, this is very well-documented --

This is not conspiracy theory.

This is not some Top Secret

classified documents any longer,

because this stuff all came out

during this...

after this scandal in Turkey.

So he...

in 1996, 1995,

he is the one

who goes to Azerbaijan from Chicago.

Via Turkey: goes to Azerbaijan.

With a team of several people,

less than a dozen,

he carries out this

attempted assassination

against Aliyev.

This is the Aliyev Senior,

before his son became

the President of Azerbaijan.

And it was meant to be an "attempted,"

that would not succeed.

Because if you look at Azerbaijan's

position during that same time,

1994 to 1996,

before this assassination attempt,

you would see that Aliyev

was still siding with Russia.

It was still the old loyalties:

the old loyalties of,

"We were part of the Soviet Union,"

"and we are still siding with Russia."

Now, this is when the United States,
-- the West --

was trying by its proxy, Turkey...

-- Why Turkey? They speak Turkish.

What language do they speak in these
countries, including Azerbaijan?

Turkish.

They are Muslim:

What's the religion in Azerbaijan

and all these ex-Soviet blocs?

Muslims.

So: this was the ideal proxy

to go grab countries

like Tajikistan,

and Kyrgyzstan

and Azerbaijan,

and say, "OK: Say bye-bye to Russia."

"We want you to be one of us." Right?

Well, of course, Russia

was doing its part from the other side.

So during this period

when this assassination
attempt occurred,

Aliyev Senior

-- the President in Azerbaijan --

still was loyal to Russia.

And all these different attempts

to move him to the other side

had not been successful,

so they moved to plans

that included assassination attempt,

paired up with blackmails.

Because, again: during this time,

the doors, the borders were open

in Azerbaijan.

A lot of these Turkish babas,

Godfathers,

moved in there,

and they opened really lavish,
interesting casinos.

You'd say, "Casinos? Azerbaijan?"

Yeah!

And, guess what?

Several of Aliyev's family

were given advance offerings

in these casinos,

and they collected a lot of debt,

-- and this is people very close to
Aliyev Senior.

And they started getting death threats,
saying, "Well, if you don't pay off"

"these millions-and-millions dollars of
debt in your casino gambling debt,"

"we're gonna take you out."

Then comes the assassination attempt.

So, again: if people were to go
and look at the records

on this assassination attempt on Aliyev,

they would see Abdullah Çatlı's name.

They would see that Aliyev
came out and said,

"The people responsible for this"

"were NATO/US via Turkey."

And the Turkish President calling

and saying, "No, these were the thugs,"

"the mafia people: they have
nothing to do with us!"

-- all these denials.

Whatever happened, is...

Aliyev very quickly switched position

after this assassination attempt, OK?

You fast-forward, look at Azerbaijan:

Since 1996,

Azerbaijan's been the closest ally

of the United States and NATO.

In fact, they are becoming
a NATO member.

For the last eight years, NATO has been
there with a base, training them.

They've been passing the tests.

They went from purchasing

something like $25 million worth
of weapons from the United States,

today to something like $4...
three-and-a-half, $4 billions of...

four billion dollars of US weapons.

So: success! Gladio was successful.

It was... who carried it out?

Abdullah Çatlı.

After he finished, he just shook his hand

and said, "OK, mission accomplished."

Came back again to Chicago.

Now, I'm going to open a parenthesis
here and say, remember:

for the past 11, 12 years,

I've been talking about the center

of all these operations

that have to do with my
state secrets privilege,

and people involved,

was in Chicago.

I have been saying "Chicago"
so many times!

So I don't believe anyone is...

-- at least not your listeners, or mine --

who haven't heard this:

me saying, "Chicago, Chicago."

So: he went back to Chicago.

This was one of his trips.

His other trips included

going from the other side,

through the Pacific:

going to China.

And then, from there,

going to this area, Xinjiang.

This is extremely important.

Again, Xinjiang: Muslim population.

And they are referred to...

-- in Turkey, they don't call them
Xinjiang.

It's "[East] Turkestan,"

[East] Turkestan.
They speak Turkic dialect.

Guess what?

"Up there? A great place!"

"Imagine, they get their independence: "

"We can have our little mini base there!"

"You know how close we are to China?"

I mean, on one hand you can say,
"Yeah, there's Taiwan out there."

Well, this is going to be even
more important than Taiwan!

And then, look again:

the other important strategic location

for Xinjiang

-- for [East] Turkestan,
a.k.a. Uyghuristan --

You look out there: you see Pakistan;
you see Afghanistan.

This is a very important region.

This has been a very important
region, prize,

for the United States, for the West.

We've been...

We've been doing a lot of things there.

Every time you hear...

-- at least when I was working there,

during this period that

FBI was investigating these...

-- not operations there, but people here:

the criminals in the US,

who carried out the operations there.

Those terrorist attacks:

they were orchestrated

from a long distance.

You go to Turkey;

Then, from Turkey, you go to Brussels;

to England;

and then you go to the United States.

So, all the orchestration:

it's not some minorities or some Muslims
get together, suddenly they go and...

It doesn't happen.

It didn't happen that way,

at least during that period.

And this guy from Chicago

was sent to go and organize,

carry out a couple of terrorism,

uprising events:

turn around,

back to Chicago again.

Back to Chicago again.

So: NATO,

the Gladio operation,

via Turkish military,
and Turkish

Godfather-ultranationalist-criminal-thug
paramilitary

continued until around 1996.

Towards the period...

-- like, 1994 to 1996 --

the decision-makers,

-- the top layers of NATO, the US...

-- what we usually refer to as
"shadow government," "the powers" --

they were having this debate.

They were having this...
two options in front of them.

Two plans: which one is better?

One is what they did

before the fall of the Soviet Union:

and that was using ultranationalism

-- fascism, OK? --

against the Soviet Union;

against Communism.

Versus, what they have already seen

as a very successful, successful plan:

1. They saw it in Afghanistan

with the mujahideens, Bin Laden group.

But then, recently...

-- and this is 1994, 1995, 1996 --

they were seeing its use
again and again:

in the Balkans,

in the Kosovo region,

in Bosnia.

And this is when we have
all these mujahideen:

Bin Laden, Zawahiri...
-- think about it, you know? --

factions from Egypt,
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan:

bringing them to Turkey.

Train them; bring them over there.

It was, like:

"You know, these ultranationalists:
they haven't been very productive."

"And we think the mujahideen
Islamist factions"

"are gonna much more useful"

"in our main objective of taking over: "

"having more of these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side."

OK? "On our side."

So this is...
during this, sometimes we use them;

sometimes we use the fascist
Godfather ultranationalists.

But then, in nineteen... end of 1996,

Abdullah Çatlı -- the man we've been
talking about; the thug, who went through

Xinjiang and all this stuff --
he comes to Turkey for another mission

that he was gonna go and implement.

However: while he's in Turkey,

together with some beauty queen

and a few other colleagues...

they are in Turkey,

they are traveling in this black Mercedes,

and they have a car crash, and...

they die.

Everyone in the car -- except one guy --
dies. Right?

Well, before the Turkish police
or military

got to the bodies,

the local police

-- that wouldn't know anything about
who were these people --

and the local journalists

got to the scene.

And, lo and behold:

here is the world's most wanted man,

Abdullah Çatlı, the great Godfather,

with all his diplomatic passports
with him.

But, not only that:

together with him,

you have the Chief of Police of Turkey.

I mean, the top police guy.

You have incredibly important
legit political figures.

It was like, "WTF, woman!"

"What are they doing in the car
with this guy?" -- Died.

Basically, this was...

well, in Turkey,

-- even though it had been leaked
in little bits and pieces --

it was this huge exposure

of the thugs

-- criminal, ultranationalist fascists --

actually working with -- and for --

the Turkish government.
And for right now, I'm gonna keep it...

"Turkish government:"

that is, the Turkish military;

the Turkish...
the legit Turkish institutions, right?

So, all the drug-running they were doing,

they were all controlled

and managed by the state.

And all the killings, the terrorisms

that they're found responsible for:

again, they were executed for the state.

This was huge in Turkey.

It caused an uproar.

A lot of documents started leaking.

Just like "9/11 Commission,"

there was this huge commission

established in Turkey.

Nobody talked about anything else

but this Susurluk... they called it
"Susurluk Scandal"

because the car accident

took place in Susurluk.

Now:

there was this fear by the West

-- and this is the United States,
the Europeans --

like, "Uh-Oh!"

"Now, we know that a lot of these
commission members,"

"they are like ours: Thomas Kean, and..."

"but:"

"some of them...
-- or, by default -- "

"a lot of other"
-- excuse my language --

"crap may come out"

"about our roles, the stuff we did."

"We" being the ultimate bosses.

And guess what happened?

One of the Turkish Gladio
handlers in Turkey

was an ambassador,

United States Ambassador in Turkey
at the time.

This guy was Ambassador from 1992

until the Susurluk scandal:

no other guy than Marc Grossman:
the guy... I have been saying

for the past five [years],
"You've got to look at Marc Grossman."

So, with this fear that a lot of secrets
-- state secrets -- were going to get out

during this: investigations, and
journalists digging in...

-- some people were leaking;
some people were talking --

the United States right away
got their man out of Turkey:

Marc Grossman.

No reason cited.

He still had another one-and-a-half,
two years left.

No reason cited.

Guess who else was pulled?

Another guy who was handling
the Operation Gladio,

the Turkish militants

in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

This man, his name:

-- at the time, a Major --

Major Douglas Dickerson.

This is the man...

-- if you have read my book;
if you know my case --

was the one who was married

to this spy in the FBI.

Major Douglas Dickerson:

he still had one-and-a-half years left.

He was working for Marc Grossman
in Ankara.

His main task under NATO

was operations...

Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan:
There were three or four countries,

that he directed the Turkish paramilitary
Gladio operations in those countries.

Lo and behold: the same man

-- this is documented --

he is pulled off of his position

and immediately sent to a base
in Germany

-- this is American military base --
and from there to Brussels.

Hah! This is interesting!

Now, these characters

-- that've been talked about in my case
for 12 years --

were there in 1997.

Susurluk happens: they were pulled out.

So was the top military man...

-- and this was the top man
for the Turkish

so-called "counterterrorism"
operations commando --

was sent on a mission

to Washington, DC Turkish Embassy.
-- and again, this is documented --

Right after Susurluk, they had
to get him out.

He was a chief guy in the military

overseeing these thugs and
these operations;

these false terror, false flag operations.

Not only in Turkey:

Central Asia, Caucasus.

A lot of Chechen operations;

Eastern Europe.

So, he was pulled.

He was sent to Washington, DC.

He never went back.

Again, nobody cited any reason.

They took all these important figures:

they took them to Brussels,

and they took them to Washington, DC.

And...

then it was

the decision-making time

for the "top guys in the world..."

-- For NATO, US, UK --

saying:

"Too much exposure."

"This chapter is closed."

"Gladio is not closed: "

"We are going to Plan B,"

"Gladio Plan B operations..."

"which... we have already prepared
for it some, to some extent."

"And that is: "

"we are not gonna use paramilitary;"

"we're gonna use Islamist factions."

"Who? a.k.a. mujahideens."

"a.k.a. al-Qaeda."

(Sibel): So... this is, again...
(James): OK, let's... so...

Just think about Bosnia.

OK, that's an incredible amount of
information; so just to be

absolutely clear: I think it is clear
that you're saying that the Susurluk

scandal and what happened to Çatlı
was not -- that was not something they

wanted to happen; that was not
something that was planned: He was not

taken out of the picture, but it was as a
as a result of his death that they

switched to Plan B. They weren't going
to switch to Plan B until that happened?

Nobody knows the answer to that,

because there are so many

questions surrounding this accident.

First of all, how this guy, unscratched,
walked out of the car, OK?

And there were also some questions
about -- that they may have been,

actually, dead before the accident.
Because there was this autopsy report

that their heads, a few of them,
were broken -- before the crash.

So, nobody knows who's responsible.

Was that staged? If so, which faction?

Is it something that...
OK, the top guy said,

"We want to eventually
eliminate these guys,"

"because they are in some ways out
of control: we want to go to Plan B?"

Was it someone else? We don't know.

And to this day...

you know how we scream about 9/11?

Well, in Turkey, since 1996,

people have been screaming "Susurluk."

Instead of "9/11" they say "Susurluk,"

because a lot of stuff
-- whether it's the Deep State... --

a lot of questions still remain

unanswered about it, and
that's one of them.

And that is: was it an accident?

We don't know. Nobody knows.

Were any of the other babas

similarly rubbed out

in interesting incidents?

One interesting character

who was, again, a huge figure, and...

-- we used to have a little summer
cottage, my husband and I, because

we went to Turkey every year
before all this,

FBI things, happened; whistleblowing.

And in this little, small
fishing-village city

-- which is now very fashionable; it
wasn't back then when we got it --

but, one of the babas had a few
hotels and casinos there.

While, actually, we were there

-- I was in Turkey, and this is
1999, 1998 --

he was assassinated, during
the daylight.

A lot of these Gladio babas were being
taken out. And in some cases,

they would get some other babas
[to] take out some other babas.

So, Godfather against Godfather.

Who was managing one Godfather against...?

But, a lot of them were taken out.

And again, now, this is when

we completely went to Plan B...

--"we:" United States, NATO --

and said, "We're gonna use mujahideen."

What happened to the ultranationalist
fascist guys? For a while...

some of the main ones were taken out;
some of the other ones were left alone.

They stayed rogue for a while,

tried to have their own thing.

It's like, "United States kind of
turned... is turning its back to us."

"We were [backed?]... And the
same thing is true with the state."

So things, for a while, were
kind of murky.

Then came the current Turkish regime,

the Islamic government in Turkey.

It's very interesting, because

in the United States, a lot
of things came up,

writings saying US was kind of worried

about this Islamic government in Turkey:

"What is gonna happen in Turkey?"

"Are they gonna end up being
another Iran?"

Et cetera, et cetera.

It was... it's so interesting:

it's like using reverse
psychology with people.

And you get to see that a lot
in the Middle East.

And that is... let's say US wants

to install a puppet regime there.

One of the first things that has to happen,

there needs to be this illusion

that US is worried about this regime

and that this regime is tough
on US or Israel

to get the support of the majority;

to be legitimized.

So in many cases, that's actually a tactic.

It's like, you write there,
you say you're concerned,

when this is your first choice:

this is what you want for Turkey.

-- "This is," being, US wanting
this government in Turkey. --

Since they went to Plan B,

that was always the plan.

It's like, "We want this so-called"

"'moderate Islamic' government there."

Now, after Çatlı's death,

when we completely...

the Gladio went to Plan B mode
for Central Asia/Caucasus

-- via Islam.

And these Islamic factions,

they already had a candidate
in mind, a leader.

And this man was this preacher,

this symbol of fanatic Islam in Turkey.

Now, they no longer call them fanatic.

Because he's supported by the US,

we call him a "moderate" Islamist.

And his name is Fethullah Gülen.

Now, Fethullah Gülen was preaching

in Turkey during these 1990s

against the secular government:

"In Turkey, we need to have a
government that reflects, more, people's"

"value: which is Islam. We have to go
back to our roots." It was a different

form of ultranationalists:
ultranationalists were like,

"We don't want to be part of the EU;
we want Turkish culture."

"In fact, all these Central Asian
countries there:"

"we want to get together with them,"

"take over them,"

"and make this great Turkic Republic."

Now, this preacher Fethullah Gülen
said the same thing;

but he didn't say "nation;"
he said "Islam..."

-- but the Turkish way of Islam --

together with Turkish language:

"We need to go and get"

"our other brothers in Central Asia,"

"Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan,"

"bring them together,"

"and be one great Islamic Turkey."

"-- Not fanatic, you know?"

"Moderate, Turkish way of Islamic..."

-- whatever is the
"Turkish way of Islamic."

Now, the military regime in Turkey

hated this guy, so he was wanted.
There were already some trials.

They wanted to put him in jail, OK?

He was going through all this period.

Accident happens: and he's wanted.

He's actually declared criminal,

terrorist,anti-secularist

by the Turkish government.

Yet, mysteriously, after Susurluk incident,

this guy, Fethullah Gülen,

- in a private Gulfstream --

ends up in the United States of America;

lands here in Washington, DC.

Hah! Why the United States?

"This is a great Turkic Republic,
Islamic..."

why are you coming to US?

He hasn't left the United States since.

This is since 1997.

First he was in Washington, DC area.

They gave him a lavish house

and let him set up his organization,

"Islamic" organization.

Currently, it's valued somewhere
above $20 billion dollars.

It's the
largest Islamic organization in the world,

headquartered in the United States. OK?

And I'm gonna come back again -- if we
have time -- to this character.

But he's here in Washington, DC area

and Pennsylvania.

Who is his next neighbor?

His next neighbor... [laughs]

This is... I'm laughing.

It's because nobody ever touches
these issues:

-- because they are told not to,
as far as mainstream media goes;

as far as alternative media goes,
it's like,

"Man, dude! This is so complicated!
I can't get into that."

Next to him is this guy called
Yusuf Turani.

Now, this is the guy

who used to be in Xinjiang...

-- Uyghuristan; Turkestan in China --

He was taken out of there;

he lived for a while in Turkey,

then he was...
he came to the United States.

He was given citizenship.

And the State Department brought him,

and they had a meeting

-- and this is in 1997 --

and they declared independent country

of [East] Turkestan

with the President of [East] Turkestan
in absentia.

Like, nobody knows this, right?

So you declare a country and a
President in a meeting,

at an oval table in the State Department.

We say, "We are declaring Xinjiang
[East] Turkestan;"

"and here is the President."

Now, he swears... his oath of office
is taken

inside the building, in the
State Department,

in Washington, DC, in 1997.

Well, he's part of the same
Gladio Plan B network, OK?

So through him...

-- because he's the leader in absentia,
president in absentia of this country that

really doesn't exist except in the eyes of
the United States: [East] Turkestan --

so, he was part of Plan B

and still is part of Plan B,

heading and carrying out operations;

through his people and network [that]
goes down in Xinjiang Province of China

Now, between 1997,

after he moved to the United States,

this guy...

-- this preacher Fethullah Gülen, right? --

opened up 350 mosques and madrasas

in Central Asia and Caucasus.

350, James -- in four years!

Nobody knows where the money's
coming from.

He says, "These are donations
from good-hearted Turkish people."

[laughs] That, it means...
-- let's take a look at it. If...

We don't even get that much... we don't
even collect that much tax in Turkey!

Even the government is unable, by force,
to collect that much tax.

So, we've got these $20 billion
dollars of net worth.

So, 350 mosques and madrasas.

But because he preaches modern Islam

-- you know, not the fanatic Islam --

he advocates teaching English
to all his students,

pupils in the madrasas.

These are boys with Qu'ran,
and they go like...

but they have to learn English.

And for the teaching of English

for his organizations that he owns,

-- these mosques and madrasas --

he needs to send English teachers

to Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan

and et cetera, right?

But for some reason, hundreds of

these English teachers that went
-- have been going --

from the United States to these countries

-- Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, et cetera --

they all have diplomatic passports!

Now, you taught English.

Were you given diplomatic passports

to teach English in Japan?

(James): [laughs]
(Sibel): No? [laughs]

This... again, people will say,
"Oh, this is some allegation." No!

And this is why I have had
articles trans--...

I have translated articles...

-- mainstream media in Europe
and in Turkey --

and it's there!

It's already been proven.

And they -- United States, the
State Department -- is not denying.

They are saying, "Because those
countries are backwards and dangerous,

"they need diplomatic protections."

Well,hah!

Anyhow, Plan B Gladio operations:

These are... I'm giving the examples

of what Plan B has been about.

And this was when we...

-- the United States, NATO --

started really closely working

with Bin Laden and Zawahiri.

And... again, from what we knew
in the FBI

with some of the trips that Zawahiri took,

the meetings with the high-level Turkish
people in Turkey,

several trips that Zawahiri took

and went to Azerbaijan between
1997 and 2001.

And while in Azerbaijan

he met with a lot of US officials.

It was sponsored,

and it held the meetings

in Turkish Embassy in Baku, Azerbaijan

with Zawahiri

Prince Bandar was there...

A lot of the stuff that we got:

I mean, Bin Laden seemed to be
number two:

It was all Zawahiri.

Believe me or not, it was
Ayman Zawahiri.

It was Zawahiri that came to Turkey

and then went from Turkey

to Albania, to Kosovo...

So, anyhow: we...

-- United States, together with Turkey:
Turkish military, faction of it --

started working very closely in
these countries

with Ayman Zawahiri,

Bin Laden,

Prince Bandar.

Lots of meetings took place,

and a lot of it was coordinated

via the Turkish proxy.

Well, these Turkish proxies

were being investigated by the FBI;

-- not for that reason;
for other reasons --

But inadvertently, we were getting

this information through the
recordings of...

whether it is, hypothetically speaking,

Turkish military being wiretapped,

or if it's a Turkish military attaché;

diplomatic institutions;

other various front organizations.

So, let's say you were...

via FISA, you were monitoring it

-- "you" being the FBI --

for... to see if there is

some espionage activities, et cetera.

But while you are monitoring them,

you are coming with mother-lodes

of information that has to do...
it's like, "Huh?" -- you know?

And another interesting thing

that I have to mention here is:

-- and nobody has ever
mentioned this in public --

Now, in the FBI, every single country

-- every single country except four --

were wiretapped, were monitored
under FISA.

And by this I mean

all their diplomatic arms.

Let's say, if it's a German embassy

and a German military attaché

in Washington, DC -- under FISA

Four countries... four countries...

Except four countries:

Four countries were exempt.

They could not be monitored

by the FBI under FISA,

-- that could be used in espionage
and even criminal activities.

You want to have a guess?

(James): Can I take a stab at it? I'm...
(Sibel): What countries?

(Sibel): A lot of people would say Israel.
It's not.

(James): It's not Israel?

(Sibel): OK, I'll help you...
(James): I guess Turkey is on that list...

(Sibel): Yep. It was, until I went...
I started the official Turkish division

(Sibel): for the FBI.
(James): Right

Prior to my employment with the FBI,

the Pentagon sent this
Lieutenant Colonel woman.

She was a Turkish-American woman;

NATO, Pentagon liaison.

They would send her every two or
three months

to come and randomly translate

certain things for the FBI.

Because certain things were
being recorded;

but FBI couldn't have an official division,

meaning they could never investigate

criminally or for espionage.

Turkey is one. All right: three more.

Oh no. [laughs] Well...

If it's going to play into what's happening
in Central Asia and the Caucasus,

it would have to be, perhaps, Pakistan?

No. We had a pretty good division
on Pakistan.

Because, you see, this included...

that's why I gave the example
of Germany:

because this included
European countries, too.

It was Turkey, Azerbaijan,
United Kingdom...

-- you would think, "English! What?" --
United Kingdom is exempt,

and for a reason. And
that reason... well...

and the fourth one is Belgium.

Nobody in the FBI is allowed...

because there are too much
sensitive stuff going on with Belgium

So these are the four.
No, Israel, we had a huge division;

and FBI was extremely frustrated.

They hated how investigations

were being stopped, et cetera.

But they... we had a huge division
there on Israel. [chuckles]

And we had so much crap on Israel;

they had huge amounts.

Unfortunately, it could never be used,
but they never... they still collect.

But no, not Israel. But it would be

Turkey, Azerbaijan, and UK, and
Belgium. And again, as I said...

-- the artery, at the beginning
of this interview --

it was United States, Belgium,
England, Turkey.

And... so, anyhow: Fethullah Gülen
still is here,

he's still in Turkey [sic], he has this
huge castle built in Pennsylvania.

We have... he has opened...

(James): Sorry... I just...
(Sibel): Yes.

Before we go on with that, I just want to
spell that out for the audience out there

in case they don't know. Of course, one
of the implications of this:

NATO's headquarters are in Brussels, in
Belgium. This is the head of NATO itself.

So again, just to spell that out for people

in case they didn't quite get
the implication of that.

Correct, absolutely.

And during the Susurluk
investigation, the...

some of the documents that
became public:

a special office in Pentagon

that was responsible for all this Gladio

-- false flag, false terrorism --
operations.

It... the exact division

was spelled out in documents.

I mean, they had a major office.

There is a major division
that oversees that.

And as I said, they work with
these thugs and criminals.

And the fact that

-- as people write
and talk about it --

it was not dismantled and just left there

after the end of the Soviet Union,

after the fall of the Soviet Union.

It went... it went forward
with the operations,

and in 1997 it went to Plan B.

And this is why, again,

[unintelligible] it's very interesting,

because during this three,
four years' period,

there were dozens and dozens
of joint operations

with individuals like Ayman Zawahiri
and...

-- meaning that, it was never called
"al-Qaeda;"

It was "mujahideen, headed by..."

And again, it's very interesting.

When, lately, these leaders [of] these
regimes we topple in these countries,

they are... they end up dead

so they cannot talk,

or they end up sick with heart attacks.
They can't talk, really, have trials.

We saw it with Gaddafi.

But again, one of the things
that took place

-- and again, Turkey behind the scenes
played a major role together with US --

was we in the United States
asked Mubarak

to release some of the top
fundamental[ist]

anti-regime figures from prison
in the 1990s.

And they came to Turkey,

and they became part of this movement.

When I say "anti-regime," it would be...

Mubarak had to release

some fundamental[ist]s who were
anti-Mubarak!

And... because the higher powers told him

that, "We need these people in Turkey,
and we have tasks for them."

You take a look and see

how many times he's been released,

people like Zawahiri.

Anyhow, we had these,

and then, 9/11 happened.

And this is when...

I kept saying -- these organizations,
OK? -- these things come together.

And people... people say, "Whoa! what
does it have to do with Turkey?"

"Turkey's an ally!"

Well, it would be crazy for someone
to come out and say,

"You know, you look at NATO..." [chuckles]

or, "A certain arm of NATO..."

Nobody would listen to this person.

Think about it!

A President -- ex-President of Italy --

can come out publicly

and talk about Gladio,

and talk about some of the operatives,

and talk about 9/11,

and it's not even mentioned!

How could two or three agents from the
FBI...

you get a couple of people in Pentagon...
if they were to come out...

and they were to come out
and tell people...

Let's say they are fearless, OK?

They say, "Execute me, put me in jail."

"I'm gonna tell the Americans
exactly what I know."

People would say, "He's crazy,"
or, "She's crazy."

They...
-- Americans, a lot of people in Europe --

they would not be willing to
digest information -- to them -- that big.

But the answer, yet, is so simple.

Well, let's spell this out for people.

Because you've talked about the
Plan A of Gladio

-- which is more, I think, what people
understand Gladio to have been,

talking about the ultranationalists --

But moving into the Plan B era

with the Islamization of the Central Asia
and Caucasus,

and working with people like Zawahiri:

I guess the question a lot of
people have is,

how is this Gladio?

Gladio was the stay-behind

to counter the Soviet threat.

So the idea is, well,

after the Soviet threat is gone,

what is Gladio's purpose?

So I guess the question is,
well, what is Plan B?

What is it actually attempting to achieve?
I think we've gotten

some indication with that: for example,
the Azerbaijani example,

trying to move the Azerbaijani
government into the US stable.

But are there other examples?
How is this actually being used?

And what is its purpose at this point?

OK, First, the fact that

even though the term
"stay behind" applies,

they are ex--... they're very proactive.

This is... think about this:

A lot of people say, "OK, Cold War, then,
was over, in 1991."

Cold War was never over.

It is not... it still continues.

Thewar over resources continues.

Not only that it did not end in 1990,

it actually accelerated, OK?

A lot of emphasis, attention today
is on Middle East.

Why? Middle East oil, right?

In less than a couple of decades,

the next Middle East we're
gonna be seeing

is going to be Central Asia.

Much worse, much bloodier,

with much worse ethnic divisions.

Divisiveness and conflicts there.

Because the amount of
natural resources they have

-- whether it's in oil, or gas,
or minerals --

it's... because it's towards the end of it,
what we see in Middle East.

they are almost done with...

OK: you still have the unexplored regions

within the Caspian Basin;

you still have Iran, yeah.

But the ultimate prize

has always been

Central Asia and Caucasus.

If you go back to Brzezinski,

if you go back to the old doctrine,

you would see that
it's that Eurasia,

It's not... Middle East is the past.

It's over: it's the finished chapter.

A lot... they like what they are seeing:

people -- we -- are stuck by watching,

observing Middle East,

and nobody's paying attention
what is happening,

how the countries are being set up

in Central Asia and Caucasus.

How we are already setting up

the religious factions there.

How we are setting up

the ethnic conflicts there.

You need to do this pre-preparation

for the coming assault
that's going for it.

It doesn't happen overnight, you know?

People are looking... Mubarak!

I remember, 1980, 1981:

I remember how it was discussed
in Iran, in Turkey,

of who killed Anwar Sadat?

It was... the biggest thing was,
it was Mubarak.

Who wanted Mubarak to implement that?

It was alwaysthe United States.

So... but today it's like,

"Oh yeah, this big bad guy Mubarak,
he's in jail."

It's... they don't know the context.

They are currently -- people --
missing the context

of what we are doing.

9/11 happens, OK? 9/11 happens.

We say -- our government says --
"Our partners did it!"

"While we were working with them,
carrying [out] joint operations"

"all over the place in Central Asia
and Caucasus,"

"they turned around and
they did this to us!"

It's... as I said: I said it
seems complicated,

it's too big to digest;
yet it's extremely simple.

And simplicity doesn't matter:

p eople don't want to digest,

no matter how simple it is.

Our partners...

-- look, we are partnering up in Syria:
it's nothing --

I'm talking about real partnership.

Operations carried out over resources,

trying to get these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side

so they won't be on Russia's side.

So they won't be on China's side.

Because, hey: "Communist China."

"Muslims should side with America,
because Islam works in our benefit."

"What do we have to get these people
through our proxy, Turkish NATO?"

Islam!

As long as they become fanatics,

as long as they're attached to Islam,
they're gonna say pooh-pooh

to China and Russia.
They're gonna side with us.

What happened in Afghanistan?

It was Islam. It's always been.

It's been the oldest trick for the UK.
It's been the number one big game:

it's played in the name of religion.

You use Islam to get what you want!

And I'm just amazed. I'm opening
newspapers...

I don't actually open newspapers
anymore.

I open them on my computer.
But I still do this motion.

I don't buy newspapers;

but, count: how many times

do you see the word "Islam"
and "Islamists?"

"Islamists carried out this;
Islamists did that;"

"Islamists... and this Islamist faction;
Islamists..."

If you look at some of the conflicts
with India and Pakistan, you don't see,

"Buddhists! Buddhists did that!" "The
Buddhists..." You don't see,

"Buddhists did this." It's a particular
group; but it's Islamists!

(James): Absolutely right.
(Sibel): So... but these Islamists...

I mean, we see the absolute
Islamization of the area

and the 350 madrasas

that Gülen has put into that region.

And with the English teachers being
sent over with diplomatic passports,

it all lines up exactly as you're saying.

But there's another huge piece
of this puzzle

that we haven't even touched on yet,
and that's the drug-running:

which, of course, is absolutely central
to a lot of the geostrategy of the region.

And of course, Turkey:
absolutely important

in terms of smuggling
for the heroin routes.

A lot of money rests on this.

This is such a huge backbone of the
international economy. And of course,

that's one of the things that we're not
allowed to ever talk about

or broach in the mainstream media,

because it is so central
to what's happening there.

So how does this fit in? Who are the
main players, and where do they fit

into this network that's been created?

Sure. First of all,

I have to first say: I know
the information I know

both through the work I did during a
short period of time with the FBI

that involved the top Turkish operators
and movements of heroin

-- and this is before 9/11 until
a few months after 9/11 --

but also my own research;

but also my own contacts and
sources in Turkey.

But as far as my work during my work
with the FBI goes

and the information that by default we
gathered, because some of these

Turkish actors under investigations who
were being monitored,

they were the major players with
bringing in heroin.

And it was, again, done
-- believe me or not --

it's like, "OK, Turkey, Eastern Europe:"
Nobody ever mentions the role

and the strategic importance of Brussels!
Brussels is extremely important in the

transportation and in the distribution of
heroin, but nobody would

want to think about... [scoffs] "Brussels?
European country? Belgium?"

"It just doesn't fit."

"We need to find countries
like Pakistan and Turkey:"

"Yeah, Midnight Express!
That makes sense."

" But UK? Belgium? That's not...
that doesn't."

But one false information that
is being put [out]

-- that I have to correct here --

by people is: "Taliban ended the opium
production, the poppies production,"

and that after 9/11 it started.

Of course, after 9/11 it went from
$5 billion worth,

or $1 billion dollar worth, to $50,
$100 billion:

increased tremendously.

But they never ceased producing.

And I know this first-hand;

and I know this through my work
with the FBI.

It is a known thing: they still did.

It was nothing like to this extent,

to the scale that it is today,

the production of the opium and heroin;

but it was there.

However, until 9/11,

the majority of that operation

-- and again, it was nothing compared
to what it is today --

the biggest share was actually
carried out...

-- both operations, taking it
to the labs --

by the Russians.

If I were to throw a number,

I would say it was... 70 to 80 percent

was under Russian control in 1990s.

It was Russian mafiya,

certain Russian military elements,

certain Russian intelligence elements.

they created, they had a lot of network
put in place,

even after they got out of Afghanistan,

and they continued that.

And something around...
-- again, don't quote me on the number --

if I were to throw a number, I would say
somewhere around 20 percent

was being smuggled through porous
borders region into Iran,

from Iran into Turkey,

some of them through Turkey...

Kurdish couriers into Iraq,

from Iraq to Turkey

where the lab processed it.

But, it was 20 to 80.

Now, that turned completely opposite
after 9/11.

We, the West, via Turkey...

-- Albanians and Turks --

the West became...

-- and this is the number one actor at
the top, being NATO --

the biggest shareholder,

the top people in this operation

that now you are seeing

$50, $100, $500 billion: pick your number.

And the Russians' share decreased,
and decreased,

and decreased, and decreased
-- to almost nothing.

I mean, they still have some,

there are some Russian...
but it's nothing.

And that's why, again, this was...

this is fact,
this is solid data pouring in:

who were the actors, how much of the
share it was, and how much it is now.

This is why I wonder sometimes why
Russia screams and says,

"All this heroin comes into Russia, and
we want to be part of this"

"eradication program that has increased
the poppy production into..."

whatever, $50 billion. I guess
we call it, now, "eradication,"

increasing the production.
I'm like, "maybe it's a code language!"

Russia says, "We want in on this!"

And maybe to pacify Russia we say,

"Yeah, we are eradicating, and the
production is going up."

"Come, we'll give you another 10 percent."

"Help us 'eradicate.'"

In quotes: "eradicate" poppies.

So, that's for the heroin portion of it.

And while we are at this,

on this topic of Russia...

-- and I want to mention this,
and I find this mind-boggling --

the... our operations

-- Gladio operations; US, NATO via
these Turkish paramilitary groups...

and later via the Islamist groups --

a lot of it had to do with

what we were doing with the Chechens

and the Chechen movement
in the Chechnya

carrying out terror attacks in Russia.

A lot of it within Russian borders.

Now... then we're going
to get into Ergenekon.

And I don't know how much
time we have;

it may be part two for this interview.

Because a lot of these former

ultranationalist fascist militaries

who used to fight Russia

or counter the Soviets on Gladio's side,

after they were, basically, thrown out,

started being assassinated.

They were thrown out by NATO
and they lost their protection;

and these are the military fascists
in Turkey. The ones who survived,

they had to get themselves to Russia.
And they defected to Russia.

They went and they sought political
asylums. You will see

several Turkish generals who've been
in Russia in the past three or four years.

With all the trials against the
Turkish generals,

Ergenekon in Turkey,

and with some of these people

being assassinated mysteriously,

including some of the
paramilitary groups.

In order to defect, in order to get the
asylum; in order to settle

and get the Russian
government's protection,

of course, they have to give

-- I'm sure, I'm certain --

a lot of information

to the Russian government and to FSB.
And even in late 1990s, as they were

-- the Russian forces there --
as they were capturing and killing

some of these terrorists
-- their terrorists --

they were confiscating passports

-- diplomatic passports, Turkish
passports --

from so-called "Chechens"
who'd either received training in Turkey

or actually these were part of the
Turkish military/paramilitary groups

fighting and leading Chechens inside
Russia to carry out terror attacks.

And the mystery remains that:

why Russia has remained so quiet
and silent on this?

And what is the game there? Or is this
actually a game-changer? I don't know.

(James): And that's an extremely
important point in all of this
(Sibel): I don't know the answer.

Because this goes right into this
geostrategy surrounding the greater

conflict that's going on right now.
This, of course, touches on China

-- with [East] Turkestan, or Xinjiang --

and Russia and its share in the heroin
trade. This goes right to the heart

of that greater geopolitical conflict we
see shaping up. So I certainly hope

that we can get a second part of this
interview, because this is absolutely,

truly fascinating stuff; but we've already
been talking for an hour, and we've laid

a lot of information out on the table
already today. So perhaps we can have

a second part to this interview; and if
there are listeners out there

with some questions or comments
that they want to make,

they can send that to me, and
I will bring that

into our second conversation on this.
But for now, thinking about

what we've talked about so far:
-- we've covered, again, a lot of ground --

Is there anything you'd like to say
to sort of wrap up

what we've talked about today,
or the situation...

Yes

...that some of these actors are in today,
like Fethullah Gülen?

Yeah. One last thing I have...
and I'm gonna get into those,

-- because they get to be
really deep topics --

on our next... during our next interviews.
But I have been asked by some sources,

some people, to go to Russia to meet
with some of these people

And I know that there are people

-- both in Turkey, but also in Russia --

who have some very important documents,

and they have some very
important information

that they have tried to get to me
in person, but they can't.

Now I know, hopefully,

that some of this will get to them,

and it would be good for them to know

that there are people,

there are journalists outside
the United States,

outside me that they can trust

and they can contact.
They can be interviewed.

If they don't wish to be interviewed,
they can send information.

There are ways. You can do it through
encrypted way

-- I don't know how much you can
trust that --

but... or documents can come
through "6-7-7-7-8-10 STOP"

But I want them to know that it is good
to have other sources

outside the US who are
tackling these issues;

and they can reach out

to journalists like James Corbett

-- and knowing that this information
would get out.

And again, those people in Russia:

I hope some of you are watching this,

and I hope some of you will help us

to peel off more layers of this operation.

Absolutely. Well, again, we've talked
about so much already today,

and there's a lot of information
for people to digest.

So I will include in the links,

in the show notes for this interview,

some of the links to some of the articles
that you've written on Boiling Frogs Post

surrounding some of these topics, and
some of the other articles that other

people have written, so that people can
start delving into this in a little bit more,

deeper detail. And I will be putting out
a podcast episode that will encapsulate

at least some of what we've
talked about today

-- and with Tom Secker last week --

this Friday. So people can look
forward to that.

On that note, I think we will wrap this
conversation up here.

Again, we have been talking for
quite a while already.

So Sibel, thank you so much
for laying this out for us today,

and I'm very much looking forward
to our next conversation.

And thank you for tackling this,

this topic, which is extremely important.

In my prelude, I called it the "master key"

to understanding a lot of things,
including 9/11.

and I'm glad you're holding that key.

Thank you.

Thank you.

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