17:24 <•lauren_istlare> Do you think it would be petty of us to ask people that are 'vacationing' from Eve i.e. skill queuing online in highsec while they continue to be part of the community (i.e. people like Gell, Moxy, Django) not to have a slot in group pos's?
17:27 <•robnik_w> honestly I'm inclined to just boot inactives and welcome them back when they're ready to play eve online again
17:28 <•robnik_w> i realize that's probably too harsh but that is the way I *want* to run things
17:28 <•lauren_istlare> the problem with booting them all together is they lose auth, and thus discuss
17:29 <•robnik_w> i think that's fine, that's what #public is for
17:29 <•lauren_istlare> django plays a lot of hero of the storm with annah and such, and they use the other channels on irc and ts
17:29 <•lauren_istlare> he would lose both of those.
17:29 <•robnik_w> well that seems like something we should fix with TS
17:30 <•robnik_w> our Other Games channel doesn't need to be auth'd
17:30 <•lauren_istlare> we could look into whether like an 'alumni' status is possible
17:30 <•robnik_w> yeah, i'd be okay with that. i'd rather purge down to 70 toons if I knew all of them were active rather than have a bunch of inactives in corp
17:31 <•lauren_istlare> our previous definition of inactive was - no kills and not in the community. If we shrunk that down to - no kills, it'd be far smaller.
17:32 <•robnik_w> each inactive is one more person leaking api keys, one more possible character sale, one more artificial inflation of our numbers that looks us unengageable, one more dude not paying attention to wardecs and gets popped, one more person making casual driveby bittervet comments in #discuss or whatever
17:33 <•robnik_w> i personally like PVP minimums v0v
17:33 <•robnik_w> the only two people entitled to stay in sound despite inactivity are PA and Xqu imo
17:33 <•robnik_w> errr, in RITES, that is
17:35 <•robnik_w> if we want to do legit pvp mimimums then let's think about it a bit and then send out a notice
17:35 <•lauren_istlare> Okay.
17:35 <•lauren_istlare> I'm gonna update my inactivity sheet anyway.
17:36 <•davdak_auscent> lauren_istlare: I made one yesterday if you want to put actual dates in
17:38 <•lauren_istlare> thanks. i'm just using your inactivity tab for logins, and doing kbs for the rest :)
17:38 <•robnik_w> like those dudes we fought on Sunday brought a bunch of T3s and bhaalgorns and two triage because they looked on our killboard and saw a 350-man alliance during primetime weekend. can't blame em. if they saw what we actually are (a 150-200 man alliance) then they might not have been so overly cautious. bloat is no good.
17:38 <•robnik_w> people overestimate you, compensate, and then you get dunked because you dont live up to expectations
17:39 <•lauren_istlare> rites is currently 60 mains. i'll tell you in a while how many of those are actually pvping
17:39 <•robnik_w> it should be about 40-45, which is pretty good i think
17:39 <•robnik_w> i dont think we have THAT many inactives
17:46 ⇐ •robnik_w quit  •  robnik_ → •robnik
18:38 <•robnik> ever get a final number lauren_istlare ?
18:38 <•lauren_istlare> i went to get dinner, i'm nearly done. i don't think you're gonna like it tho
18:53 <•lauren_istlare> robnik: 32
18:53 <•robnik> lauren_istlare, counting from when?
18:54 <•lauren_istlare> at least 1 kill since 1st September, just over 5 weeks ago
18:56 <•lauren_istlare> if you take it back to the 1st august, it goes up to 42. All the rest have no kills since july
18:56 <•lauren_istlare> or earlier
18:57 <•lauren_istlare> i have to say i'm pretty disappointed. i knew it had been quiet in eutz, but i didn't realise it was across the board.
18:59 <•lauren_istlare> the big question is, what should we do about it :/
19:00 <•robnik> we do our thing and purge on nov 1.
19:00 <•robnik> if we go down to 32 mains, so be it
19:00 <•robnik> 30 kills over 60 days, i think, is our pvp minimum
19:03 <•lauren_istlare> red is no pvp for over 2 months (july and before), orange for pvp in august (1 month), green for this month (september )
19:03 <•lauren_istlare> like, thats a lot of red :S
19:10 <•lauren_istlare> Okay so i want to boot vayren and errynn. The others are.. debatable
19:10 <•lauren_istlare> is that ok?
19:11 <•robnik> vayren is lordchaos' friend
19:11 <•lauren_istlare> vayren literally joined on 28th august, came to j*, and logged out. No kills, no communications, nothing for over a month
19:13 <•lauren_istlare> i could make a case that lorchaos basically did the same thing, by joining then going afk. But he got on one killmail before he went afk
20:01 <•lauren_istlare> i am sensing you do'nt want to kick people robnik :P
20:03 <•robnik> baby in one hand... kb in other... sry
20:04 <•robnik> will respond when she chills
20:04 <•lauren_istlare> np :)
20:06 <•robnik> alright so basically I think we should say that everyone's got until nov. 1 to get 30 kills between sept and oct, or face the purifying fire sword of the purgeoning
20:07 <•robnik> let's give folks a little advance notice. it'll ruffle some feathers, again, but we're a pvp corp and we keep picking up all these damn carebears
20:07 <•robnik> you can be incredibly casual and pick up 30 kills if you log in _at all_
20:07 <•robnik> esp over 2 months
20:08 <•robnik> if we go down to 30 mains, that's fine
20:09 <•lauren_istlare> so 30 killmails from the 60 day period of 1 sep to 1 nov ?
20:09 <•robnik> yes
20:09 <•robnik> or 20, or 40, whaever
20:09 <•robnik> i dont know exactly what th enumber needs to be
20:09 <•lauren_istlare> should we make exceptions for people that fly heavily in logi?
20:10 <•robnik> no, if they're worried about it they can bring dps drone
20:11 <•robnik> is 30 too much?
20:12 <•lauren_istlare> I just checked mine. I have between 200-300 per month, ~70 each on the two months I only logged in once a week
20:12 <•lauren_istlare> But then again, I'm not sure I'm a good measuring stick.
20:12 <•robnik> i'm looking
20:12 <•robnik> 30 might be too much
20:12 <•robnik> let's do 20
20:12 <•robnik> which is a total joke
20:12 <•robnik> but w/e
20:13 <•lauren_istlare> I definitely agree that, 'last kill' is not an accurate representation of activity. Because, people pop a shuttle and are safe for two months, in the current system :S
20:13 <•robnik> yes
20:13 <•lauren_istlare> I don't think 20 is too much. I would be happy to make exceptions for people that post in AFK within the last month though
20:14 <•lauren_istlare> Eg. (I will be busy this month because of work), is good for this month, but more than 2-3 months of that and i'll get ansy
20:14 <•robnik> 20 kills means that you'd need to have been on about 1.5% of RITES' total kills over the last two months
20:14 <•lauren_istlare> I like people that post in AFK thread
20:14 <•robnik> yes
20:14 <•lauren_istlare> Are you happy to include any killmails, including mtu's ?
20:15 <•robnik> yes
20:15 <•robnik> hell i'll include non-pve lossmails too
20:16 <•lauren_istlare> because it's extremely easy to scan a couple of mtu's down in Day and pop them. You get a suspect timer but /o\ but you can just warp to the hole.
20:16 <•lauren_istlare> Ah. I said 'killmails'. Are we including loss mails too :P
20:16 <•robnik> sure. i mostly just want folks participating
20:17 <•robnik> i dunno, maybe that's rewarding failure
20:17 <•lauren_istlare> Okay. Well this is an opportunity to plug the corp sma. They can, theoretically, borrow a slasher, go blow it up, get SRP, fit another, blow it up, get SRP etc, without having needed to make that initial outlay of isk
20:17 <•robnik> yep
20:20 <•lauren_istlare> I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I don't want to encourage people to blow up 20 slashers to fill their quota. On the other hand.. newbies might find it intimidating. We might be able to waylay that by not having hard requirements during their trial (which is gonna be their first 1-2 months).. and we pretty much do that already.
20:20 <•robnik> that's fine
20:20 <•lauren_istlare> i would also really like to hear what zyl and davdak_auscent have to say.
20:20 <•robnik> yes
20:21 <•lauren_istlare> like, i am quite happy with all of this, but i just want to get another set of eyes to look over anything we might have missed.
20:22 <•robnik> same here. some people are already pissed at a few changes and this will be one more thing to fuel the fire. but, honestly, I want people in RITES who are tough and proactive. we've let in some krabs and softies and it's not good, imo
20:23 <•lauren_istlare> i think we've evolving. we're not the same corp we were a year ago. There's always gonna be resistance against that, but i think we're going to a good place.
20:24 <•robnik> yep. tbf, xavier would not have tolerated some of the shit that's happened
20:24 <•davdak_auscent> i am still a little wary of hard limits, but i know it's better to have a well defined goal to avoid accusations of bias
20:25 <•lauren_istlare> yeah. i think after their first couple of months 'y is my irl friend', may not be a good reason as to why they get passed over a req everyone else is held to
20:26 <•lauren_istlare> we can also re-promote the whole, an inactivity boot is not a closed door. It's a door left open for whenever you come back to the game.
20:26 <•robnik> yes. thats cronyism of the worst kind
20:26 <•davdak_auscent> 20 kills in 2 months is pretty close to laughably easy, but we want to avoid people trying to circumvent the system
20:27 <•robnik> anyway I look at other successful corps and they all have pvp activity minimums. we don't want to be HRDX/PL/etc, but that doesn't mean there aren't some lessons to be learned from other well-run groups
20:28 <•davdak_auscent> i think 20 kills in 2 months is a good baseline, since we will very rarely want to grant exceptions
20:29 <•davdak_auscent> if we think that people are meeting that benchmark but still not satisfactorily active, we can bump it up
20:29 <•robnik> anyway come nov. 1, between alt drops due to wardec and the purgeoning, i would expect us to drop down to 80-90 toons. be ready for that. :)
20:30 <•davdak_auscent> it's kinda on my back burner's back burner
20:30 <•davdak_auscent> but i'd like to figure something out with zkillboard api