* Now talking on #haskell-ops
* Topic for #haskell-ops is: [#haskell moderators : http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/IRC_channel/Management - Users are welcome to join for specific discussion but asked not to idle ]
* Topic for #haskell-ops set by glguy (Tue Dec 18 17:12:59 2012)
<vanila> im getting harassed by some guy from another channel
<vanila> Maior
<Saizan> vanila: seems like the problem got resolved by itself
<vanila> how?
<vanila> I put him on ignore for attacking me, did he leave or what
<vanila> ]
<Saizan> there's no attacking going on
<vanila> I can see that you're not going to help me
<Saizan> i believe you don't need any help from an op
<Saizan> vanila: any other request? otherwise users are asked to not idle on this channel
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<vanila> glguy, got a sec? was getting harassed by some guy from another channel
<glguy> in #haskell?
<vanila> yes
<glguy> What was the issue?
<vanila> being hostile, attacking me over some political disagreement several days ago in another channel
<vanila> talking about me and insulting me in public and refusing to resolve it in PM
<Saizan> glguy: vanila got called a troll after asking "why is haskell so slow?" and apparatently being unpleasant in other channels according to Maior
<vanila> http://pastebin.com/mMGxJQEz
<glguy> OK, but that was a single message from Maior, presumably there is some other series of messages in channel I missed?
<vanila> would rather Saizan not be involved in this
<byorgey> vanila: sorry, you don't get to choose which ops are involved.
<glguy> Well, Saizan's one of our finest moderators. We don't have a hierarchy for you to appeal through.
<glguy> The stuff I saw in the logs looked pretty mild, actually.
<vanila> I'm unhappy about the hostile treatement
<Saizan> vanila: being called a troll is not the nicest thing, we can agree. That exchange doesn't make Maior someone persecuting you though
<Saizan> vanila: also, coming to #haskell to ask "why is haskell so slow?" out of the blue would make most people think your intentions are not the most genuine
<vanila> would rather Saizan not be involved in this
<Saizan> vanila: so, as to save anyone's time, I will ask you again to leave, or I will have to ban you from this channel
<vanila> <vanila> I can see that you're not going to help me
<Saizan> vanila: last change to give any evidence you're being attacked, to me.
<Saizan> *chance
<vanila> glguy, byorgey help?
<glguy> You have to recognize that when you join #* and ask "Why is * slow" without any additional qualification, you'll probably be called a troll
<vanila> glguy, I didn't join and ask
<shapr> I would certainly back up Saizan's decision, whatever it may be.
<glguy> and a single response in channel is not a pattern of harrassment
<glguy> and now the exchange is over, so it's not even an ongoing issue
<vanila> shapr, When someone was saying how nice and friendly the channel was you mentioned something about the social norms being periodically enforced
<shapr> Yes, and this is a representative instance of that.
<vanila> shapr, I thought I get help from you guys over hostile treatment
<shapr> vanila: The rules for #haskell are "Be Nice, or Else"
<vanila> shapr, can you tell that to him then?
<shapr> From what I've seen, Saizan is dealing with your 'case', and I trust Saizan's judgement.
<shapr> If Saizan believes that you have done something ban-worthy, then I believe that is true.
<vanila> no he isn't, I've been trying to get a second opinion but he keeps pushing in
<shapr> vanila: I would suggest that you understand what Saizan felt was bad for the #haskell community and attempt to correct that.
<shapr> If you've already passed that point, have a nice life :-)
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<vanila> I don't understand what you just said but "have a nice life" is usually used as a sarcastic insult - kind of feel like you're making fun of me
<shapr> If you haven't passed that point, try communicating with Saizan, understanding his point, correcting the issue, and you might get to hang around more.
<shapr> vanila: No, I am pathologically sincere.
<vanila> oh are you threatening to ban me from the channel or something
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<Saizan> vanila: so, I can ask Maior about not calling people trolls, and you should try formulating questions less provocatively
<vanila> Saizan, I would happy to comply with that
<vanila> be happy to*
<shapr> vanila: if it's good for the community, I would certainly ban you from the channel. But Saizan is dealing with whatever is going on, and I trust his judgement.
<Saizan> vanila: ok, see you on #haskell then
<vanila> shapr, Pretty upset about all this, I feel you really dislike me
<shapr> vanila: You are imagining that.
<vanila> I'm getting it from the way you talk to me
<shapr> That's certainly your choice.
<byorgey> vanila: tone is very hard to convey over IRC.  I have met shapr in person and I can guarantee that he does not dislike you.
<vanila> It's like you're making fun of me, trying to provoke me
<shapr> vanila: Nope, I'm a nice guy who wants the #haskell channel to be a productive friendly community.
<shapr> vanila: questions like "Why is Haskell so slow?" are directly provocative.
<shapr> That question starts with the basic assumption that Haskell is slow.
<vanila> <rwbarton> haasn: for instance, just comparing "main = mapM_ print [1..10000000]" to a C program using printf, it is already only ~5 times slower
<vanila> <albeit> Why "already only"? Is that faster than you would expect?
<vanila> <vanila> Why is haskell so slow?
<shapr> Yes, that does not change what I said.
<vanila> I didn't want to be taken out of context
<vanila> I've seen research of compilers for strongly typed languages that are much faster than C - because of the typing
<shapr> So, you could say: Why is that bit of Haskell code 5 times slower than C?
<shapr> How you say things affects the way people understand what you say.
<vanila> I accept your criticism but please understand that the guy originally policing my language was doing it because of political disagreement in past discussions elsewhere
<shapr> You are still obligated to be nice on #haskell if you wish to participate.
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<vanila> Are you saying I wasn't being nice?
<vanila> I don't agree with that