I assume you can read

[17:33] <Cyberspirit> yeah vm software can be a mongrel like that
[17:33] <Cyberspirit> try other software if you can
[17:34] <peetaur2> I've also used vbox a bunch with very few issues ... what are you using?
[17:34] <RickyB98> when am i gonna choose whether to install desktop or not?
[17:36] <Cyberspirit> debian is pretty broken in that regard
[17:36] <Cyberspirit> i would follow a tutorial
[17:36] <mjt> broken in what regard?
[17:40] <Cyberspirit> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.html
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: no clear cut menu feature which will install a very nice desktop on any debian install at the time of installation without having
to have constant access to the internet to download every single little package that is required to make it happen <- my grief was relevant when "mistakingly" downloading CD-1 and assuming it contained a desktop ready to go.
[17:41] <themill> Cyberspirit: what does that actually mean?
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: i needed fast internet access, and when i attempted a desktop install on debian it took 2 days vs 2 hours for ubuntu
[17:41] <themill> (and yes, you can install debian without an internet connection)
[17:41] <Cyberspirit> mjt: i dont have fast internet access, not all of the time anyway
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> even 10mbit dsl is too slow for a debian desktop installation to complete in 1 day
[17:42] <mjt> heh. Install a Very Nice Desktop (tm)
[17:42] <themill> Cyberspirit: eh? that's nonsense.
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> no its not
[17:42] <Cyberspirit> it has some credence
[17:43] <themill> umm... it is. You can install debian without any network connection at all.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> themill you can install debian without internet access yes but not a decent desktop like what ubuntu has on a single 650mb cd
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> thats what i mena
[17:43] <themill> Cyberspirit: not true.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> mean
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> themill not easily?
[17:43] <themill> Cyberspirit: trivially.
[17:43] <formorer> wrong.
[17:43] <Cyberspirit> how then?
[17:44] <formorer> just download cd1 with gnome/kde/xfce <- bad advice, cd1 contains no desktop as we find out later on.
[17:44] <RickyB98> no, that was not about the drivers..
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> thats what i did
[17:44] <RickyB98> was about the EFI shizzem..
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> and i selected to install a desktop and it downloaded for a day <- because I was using CD-1
[17:44] <RickyB98> but i don't remember precisely
[17:44] <formorer> Cyberspirit: then you didn't downloaded the right cd1
[17:44] <Cyberspirit> mmm
[17:44] <mjt> RickyB98: one other possibility is to install one or another guest agent so, for example, cut-n-paste between host and vm works.
[17:44] <formorer> there are special cds for kde, gnome, xfce.
[17:44] <jmcnaught> Cyberspirit: i have 7mbit DSL and I can install Debian in under an hour. Also if you're installing Debian all the time, you can use
something like apt-cacher-ng on your network to speed things up.
[17:44] <themill> Cyberspirit: if you had downloaded the right CD1 then there would be nothing for the installer to download.
[17:45] <Cyberspirit> please point me to this 'special cd'
[17:45] <Cyberspirit> i'd like to install deb on my laptop here
[17:46] <themill> Cyberspirit: debian.org/CD
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.5.0/i386/iso-cd/
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> ok now point me to the special cd in this list
[17:47] <Cyberspirit> now that i've finally gotten through to the right area
[17:47] <themill> Cyberspirit: what do you mean "special cd"
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> well if i choose CD-1.iso it wont have the desktop on it will it? so i'll have to choose one which comes with a desktop
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> which is the one i've been choosing for the last 10 years btw
[17:48] <Cyberspirit> CD-1 is the one i've always grabbed
[17:48] <themill> Cyberspirit: which desktop are you actually asking about?
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> thats the thing
[17:49] <mjt> heh. "Nice Desktop(tm)" :)
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> i'm a windows user, i dont keep up on the latest thing, whats the best one?
[17:49] <themill> Cyberspirit: the one you like.
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> kde, lxde, xfce
[17:49] <Cyberspirit> is xfce even a desktop? thats the question i ask
[17:49] <jelly-home> Cyberspirit: it is.
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> suprised me, xfce sounded like a strange and obscure package name
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> ok i'll get kde
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> seeing as it reminds me of the desktop that i used 10 years ago
[17:50] <Cyberspirit> on mandrake
[17:51] <Cyberspirit> thats what i mean when debian hasnt got a refined desktop install process
[17:51] <themill> Cyberspirit: you're making it more complicated than it is.
[17:51] <Cyberspirit> all of that bullshitting around has been replaced in ubuntu with a single link on the ubuntu website
[17:52] <Cyberspirit> themill: newbiness and the associated anxiety that comes with the installation of a new OS is exactly what will put people off from
trying it out, look at me i've been using linux for 10 years and for the last 2 years have considered abandoning debian because i didn't even know debian had
a desktop distribution available
[17:52] <Cyberspirit> but now i know that it does
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> i ASSUMED in my right mind that the kde and other ones as listed there were for specific purposes, like for example development of the
kde desktop or something
[17:53] <themill> Cyberspirit: a new user wouldn't have made a pile of incorrect assumptions about debian... or would have asked google.
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> yes they wouldve
[17:53] <themill> does it say "kde development"?
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> no it doesnt
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> it doesnt say kde desktop either
[17:53] <Cyberspirit> so whats your point?
[17:53] <formorer> debian doesn't have a desktop distribution.
[17:54] <b0ngz> yes it does
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> and thats what i kept on hearing for the last 2 years
[17:54] <themill> Cyberspirit: did you look at the CD FAQ at the point where you had questions about CDs?
[17:54] <b0ngz> debian does
[17:54] <formorer> no.
[17:54] <b0ngz> yes it does, yes it does
[17:54] <formorer> no.
[17:54] <formorer> b0ngz: tell me where.
[17:54] <b0ngz> debian-desktop-x64
[17:54] <b0ngz> .iso
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> debian doesnt have a desktop distribution so therefore i shouldnt download this strange and mysterious kde iso
[17:54] <b0ngz> bro
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> from the mirror
[17:54] <Cyberspirit> anyway you guys got my point
[17:54] <peetaur2> I'm with the yes men on this one. I installed a debian and ended up with ugly gnome, which sounds like desktop to me.
[17:54] <formorer> this are the same packages available as in debian
[17:54] <themill> and did you look at the CD FAQ at the point where you had questions about CDs? <- which contains NO information in regards to "desktop" anywhere, which I found out later on.
[17:54] <formorer> they are just bundled on one cd.
[17:54] <AlexPortable> themill: the reason i want vpn is because of this reason
[17:55] * shingouz leans back and grabs the popcorn
[17:55] * b0ngz chuckles
[17:55] <formorer> this is not what one would call a distribution
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> themill: theres a cd faq?
[17:55] <themill> Cyberspirit: and there's even a link to it from the pages that describe the CDs.
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#stable
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> i dont see it anywhere <- honest
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> just some links to howtos <- this is where the faq should be linked to
[17:55] <Cyberspirit> i'm a nervous linux installer, im not going to know what a FAQ is or why i should care
[17:56] <themill> Cyberspirit: so you wouldn't even try reading them when you have questions. Good job. <- pissing users off for no reason, great job. I have read everything he has said so far...
[17:56] <Cyberspirit> here it is
[17:56] <Cyberspirit> https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> at the very bottom of the page
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> in a tiny teeny little link
[17:57] <themill> Cyberspirit: and at the top. And on the sides.
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> took me a while
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> lol
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> you really expect people to find and click on that < - a tiny little 3 character piece of text /outside/ of the main page but in its borders.
[17:57] <themill> Cyberspirit: well perhaps more reading of that and less hitting <enter> would help. <- trolling
[17:57] * Cyberspirit facepalms
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> no i'm good with enter
[17:57] <Cyberspirit> me and enter are good friends
[17:57] <petn-randall> Cyberspirit: We assume people can read, and know how to navigate web pages. That's also our user target.
[17:57] -ChanServ- You have been quieted on #debian by themill
[17:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +q *!*@*censored* <- ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY OPS!
[17:57] <formorer> Cyberspirit: instead of complaining, sending patches would be a lot of better. <- I ask myself where do i send these patches? I'm willing to be genuinely helpful.
[17:58] <themill> Cyberspirit: really, please just focus on solving real problems rather than annoying everyone. <- annoying this single user it seems and then him chucking a whinge when it doesn't go his way. very monarchical thinking here.
Session Close: Thu Jun 05 17:58:24 2014

Session Start: Thu Jun 05 18:41:01 2014
Session Ident: #debian
[18:41] * Now talking in #debian
[18:41] * Topic is 'openssl: /msg dpkg dsa2896 | wheezy released: /msg dpkg squeeze->wheezy | current point release: /msg dpkg 7.5 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg

paste | /msg bots  NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next (irc.oftc.net)'
[18:41] * Set by SynrG!~synrg@debian/developer/synrg on Sun Apr 27 11:00:31
[18:41] -ChanServ- [#debian] Welcome to #Debian. This is a discussion channel; if you have a question about Debian GNU/Linux, ask and we will try our best to

answer it. Newcomers should read the channel's guidelines by typing "/msg dpkg guidelines". Please do not paste in the channel; use #flood instead. Thank

you.
[18:41] #debian url is http://www.debian.org
[18:41] <Cyberspirit> themill: i took a look through that faq, nowhere does it mention any desktop environment
[18:41] <Cyberspirit> themill: might want to keep that in mind next time you vow me to read the faq
[18:47] <Cyberspirit> I also don't see where I can contribute or edit that page
[18:48] <anddam> thanks, I didn't know openssh provided SFTP
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> To report a problem with the web site, e-mail debian-www@lists.debian.org.
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> there we go
[18:51] <Cyberspirit> thanks for nothing i guess
Session Close: Thu Jun 05 18:51:07 2014

PULL YOUR FUCKING HEADS IN!