A chat

Conversation with cjwatson on Wed 07 Mar 2012 18:24:59 GMT:
(18:24:59) cjwatson: 17:13 <phillw> G3 ppc - alternate, installs with a hack, G3 desktop more problematical, ubiquity bug raised for the kernel being installed into the wrong directory on Intel-Mac, re-writing of theme not yet
(18:25:03) cjwatson:                complete (affects all lubuntu)
(18:25:08) cjwatson: hey, do you happen to have the bug numbers to hand for the installer problems?
(18:25:33) cjwatson: I'd be happy to take a look
(19:04:25) phillw: hi colin, the lads are still discussing it. But the 'rough' idea is for ubiquity to 'learn' it is a G3 and put in the xorg.conf file ONLY for that one. doing so manually from alternate iso has so far had a 100% success rate, it is harder to do from desktop. Is there any milage in this being further pursued?
(19:05:27) phillw: I'll go and dig out the bug for ubiquity putting the kernel in the wrong place, but it is a known bug, with a work-around.
(19:11:30) phillw: http://pastebin.com/7QtFyTBJ
(19:18:25) phillw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lubuntu-software-center/+bug/944587
(19:18:49) phillw: I'm struggling to find the bug report for the kernels in the wrong place.
(19:29:12) phillw: Guided partitioning bug, you already have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-base/+bug/856826


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(22:18:57) cjwatson: I very much recommend that you drop the idea of having the installer fiddle with xorg.conf and instead look at improving X's autodetection; there is a great deal more mileage in the latter approach
(22:19:32) cjwatson: thanks for the other links; I'll have a look when I'm next at a proper computer
(22:21:50) cjwatson: hah, I was actually writing parted tests this afternoon to try to nail down 856826
(22:22:11) cjwatson: is that the "kernels in the wrong place" bug, or are you referring to something else?
(22:23:26) phillw: I think it is, the annoying thing for me (and I'm sure for you) is that they discuss something, complain about it but when asked to file a bug & let me know the bug number it all goes deathly silent :(
(22:24:30) phillw: for getting X to autodetect, none of us have even the faintest idea where to even start. We're not coders.
(22:25:27) cjwatson: ask the X people :)
(22:26:02) cjwatson: #ubuntu-x should be able to help
(22:26:19) phillw: he he ... X-Files .... Was a decent series when it started.
(22:27:27) phillw: okies, I'll give it a go - but I do not have a Mac, so it is going to be tortuous!
(22:28:24) cjwatson: fair enough, but it is the right approach
(22:29:12) cjwatson: there's no infrastructure for creating an xorg.conf in certain circumstances in the installer, and it's not needed for any other hardware that I've heard of these days so I'm very unkeen on creating any
(22:29:16) phillw: I will see what can be achieved. I know we were really short of time, so realistically we are now looking at 12.10 :/ That option was a 'hack' for 12.04
(22:30:04) cjwatson: it's a bug fix; if it can be explained promptly and with clarity I don't see why it shouldn't be possible for 12.04
(22:31:56) phillw: colin, would not someone like http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1220329 be better placed for that? I know he does a heck of a lot for ppc
(22:32:36) phillw: I'll do it, but he has a good understanding of it & access to the kit needed to test.
(22:33:12) cjwatson: sure, I meant you plural rather than you specifically
(22:33:46) phillw: okies, I'll go ask :)
(22:33:51) cjwatson: I don't know rsavage myself but I'll take your word for it
(22:33:57) phillw: the royal "you"
(22:34:03) cjwatson: heh
(22:35:08) phillw: in UK we have the Royal "we" which when HRH The Queen uses it, means "I". I guess the royal "you" means "and any one else you can get to help"
(22:35:50) cjwatson: I'm from the UK too
(22:36:32) phillw: Good, one less reason for words to get confused :)
(22:38:10) phillw: so, what exactly should I ask on #ubuntu-x I'm an admin and wiki guy, it took pcman about three stressful days (for him) to teach me how to get the stuff i needed for ./configure and make onto my computer!
(22:38:52) cjwatson: point them to a clear bug report identifying how X is failing to autodetect hardware
(22:40:45) phillw: thanks, I'm sure we can manage that. I know some of the guys on PPC are 'shoulders sloped' because these things have gone on for so long. I think the new guys who have come in via lubuntu have given it a shot in the arm. It is, after all, the whole reason behind lubuntu ... up to date O/S for old kit :)
(22:41:00) cjwatson: and ask if there's any more information you can supply or if they can offer guidance on fixing it (best done by somebody with the hardware though)
(22:41:44) phillw: so it it will bug-report <package> --- which package?
(22:41:50) cjwatson: xorg
(22:42:31) phillw: Thank you so much for time, I know from the thread on ppc that you are the friend for ppc.
(22:43:03) cjwatson: fwiw the presence of you folks (plural again) working on and visibly testing powerpc is actively making it easier to advocate within Canonical for keeping the powerpc archive and images in place
(22:44:26) phillw: As I mentioned to kate, earlier, I am drilling them into using http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ and RAISING BUGS instead of just griping about things.
(22:45:23) cjwatson: yeah, it really seriously helps - even if bugs don't get fixed it means we can point to them and say "look, users"
(22:45:42) phillw: I'll pass the word along to them :)
(22:46:24) cjwatson: I was talking with my boss' boss today and he specifically mentioned being impressed at the enthusiasm level around Lubuntu
(22:46:57) cjwatson: makes it a lot easier to keep the flavour ecosystem going
(22:48:27) phillw: New we are, but an enthusiastic group as well. On our own liittle lubuntu-qa area we have a decent number set of numbers. I've pretty much kidnapped it for mac testing, as the i686 and amd64 builds just happen - if there is a gripe on them, it hits the general mailing list!
(22:48:41) phillw: -number
(22:50:24) phillw: for Mac stuff, they're certainly not adverse to testing against ubuntu-ppc so we can find out if it is lubuntu specific, or a general bug in the base build. This, I am sure, helps track bugs down.
(22:56:40) cjwatson: Yep.  I expect it'd be fairly rare for architecture-specific bugs to also manage to be flavour-specific.
(22:57:25) cjwatson: Particularly anything around boot or installation probably won't be.