03[08:30:28] * basedtc ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:31:03] <NcTn> http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1412856832687.jpg
03[08:32:31] * Zero_1343 ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:33:05] <DepressionFries> kek
[08:35:14] <IamDong> i am dong
[08:35:23] <NcTn> https://i.imgur.com/iPqih8R.jpg
[08:35:58] <NcTn> https://twitter.com/GennaBain/status/520190617906081792
[08:35:59] <@BenedictArnold> @GennaBain: "Well I think he's feeling better. @Totalbiscuit is awake and complaining about Metalopolis." (https://archive.today/OIcXf)
[08:36:42] <Underdose> IamDong: tell us more
[08:37:33] <%fotts> Should we tweet this to Burch? NcTn ?
[08:37:46] <Underdose> don't tweet to anyone ever
[08:37:50] <Underdose> irc traitor
[08:38:04] <NcTn> wat
[08:38:26] <DepressionFries> :o?
[08:38:47] <Underdose> hashtags will make people forget channels ever existed
[08:39:01] <DepressionFries> lol who cares
00[08:39:02] <DoktorSleepless> NcTn: Admittedly, that segment was fucking hilarious.
[08:39:46] <DepressionFries> Underdose: now, it will make people think irc channels are made of hashtags :b
[08:39:53] <Underdose> ᶠᶸᶜᵏᵧₒᵤ DepressionFries you should care, your irc privileges are at risk
[08:40:07] <Problematic> Underdose: can you imagine an episode of CSI where the key to solving the murder is trying to find a hashtag but it's actually an irc channel
[08:40:13] <Problematic> and it takes them 45 minutes to figure it out
[08:40:17] <DepressionFries> dun dun dun
[08:40:27] <Underdose> DepressionFries, I would like to inform you that you've now officially been added to my permanent ignore list. Reasons for this may fall under many categories including: Judaism, Homosexuality, The lulz, Unlicensed Promotion of Hashtags and Attempted Thinking. Was it worth it to make your "witty" comments and snide in-jokes to your #burgersandfries pals about me if it means you are now disappeared from my online experience? Have a nice li
[08:40:50] <DepressionFries> kek
[08:40:56] <Problematic> Underdose: he also eats guinea pigs and fucks alpacas
[08:42:07] <Underdose> ic
[08:42:13] <basedtc> is this the dark heart of the gamergates
[08:42:15] <Underdose> i bet you'd love that
[08:42:18] <Underdose> Problematic, I would like to inform you that you've now officially been added to my permanent ignore list. Reasons for this may fall under many categories including: Judaism, Homosexuality, The lulz, Inciting Twitter Murders and False Accusations. Was it worth it to make your "witty" comments and snide in-jokes to your #burgersandfries pals about me if it means you are now disappeared from my online experience? Have a nice life, Problemas
03[08:42:25] * BobbyBobDole ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
09[08:42:25] * Synthovine ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[08:42:37] <DepressionFries> underdose is gay
[08:42:41] <Problematic> problemas
[08:42:47] <Underdose> basedtc, I would like to inform you that you've now officially been added to my permanent ignore list. Reasons for this may fall under many categories including: Judaism, Homosexuality, The lulz, and Chipping In.. Was it worth it to make your "witty" comments and snide in-jokes to your #burgersandfries pals about me if it means you are now disappeared from my online experience? Have a nice life, nobody.
[08:42:58] <Underdose> my this channel is getting better by the second
[08:43:06] <Underdose> irc is great
[08:43:14] <DepressionFries> Underdose: enjoys sucking cock
[08:43:36] <Underdose> DepressionFries enjoys fantasising about me in homerotic situations
[08:43:38] <basedtc> how do you join gamergate is there a hat i need to buy or something
[08:43:42] <Underdose> i guess i should be flattered
[08:43:45] <DepressionFries> oooh wasn't I gnored?
[08:43:51] <DepressionFries> lol
[08:43:54] <Underdose> people actually use ignore?
[08:44:01] <meklu> I've seen it happen
[08:44:01] <DepressionFries> snowflakes do
03[08:44:15] * Tile121 ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:44:16] <meklu> even on a channel I'm an op on...
[08:44:24] <Underdose> meklu, I would like to inform you that you've now officially been added to my permanent ignore list. Reasons for this may fall under many categories including: Judaism, Homosexuality, The lulz, And Seeing it Happen. Was it worth it to make your "witty" comments and snide in-jokes to your #burgersandfries pals about me if it means you are now disappeared from my online experience? Have a nice life, typo.
[08:44:27] <meklu> that's pretty much the only one to be honest
[08:44:27] <DepressionFries> shamefur dispray meklu
[08:44:45] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "Last few hours of my epic 24-hour AMA http://t.co/BFkrWDpJAG #GamerGate" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520193177215844352)
[08:44:45] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/QLLvx
[08:45:15] <Underdose> http://yhbt.yhl.googlepages.com/ig.txt format /ig nick insult reasons
[08:45:22] <Underdose> works with all good irc clients
[08:45:22] <meklu> someone said they didn't feel feminism was striving for equality; they were called an ebil misogynist and put on someone's ignore list...
[08:45:25] <Underdose> ie: only irssi
[08:46:09] <meklu> it's a gaming channel and I can't recall how that segwayed itself into the conversation in the first place
03[08:46:20] * Big_Boss ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
03[08:46:20] * GeorgeWashington sets mode: +o Big_Boss
[08:46:31] <Standard> 3 hours to go.
[08:46:31] <Underdose> meklu: drama wants to be free
[08:46:34] <%fotts> I feel like I should ban a bitch
[08:46:55] <meklu> Underdose: indeed
[08:46:55] <@Big_Boss> vee is getting raided
[08:46:58] <Underdose> fotts: don't ban yourself, we still love you despite the self-depreciation
[08:47:15] <%fotts> which one Big_Boss
[08:47:18] <@Thidran> *arc https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzcZ6YiCYAE_LMv.jpg:large
[08:47:20] <@BenedictArnold> submitted: https://archive.today/69CCh
[08:47:26] <@Big_Boss> the 8chang one
[08:47:44] <NcTn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7FqXi7SydA
[08:47:49] <NcTn> new tyrone
[08:47:53] <@Big_Boss> i dont think a single guy raiding it can be called a raid
[08:48:15] <@Big_Boss> but he's been posting literally who and that one shitty comic since last night.
03[08:48:28] * Bluuuuuuu ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:48:55] <NcTn> hahaha
[08:49:24] <basedtc> so u guys like Milo
[08:49:25] <Underdose> imgboards :/
[08:49:46] <Moltar> basedtc he's a big guy
[08:49:56] <NcTn> i like him when he is helping us
[08:49:57] <NcTn> otherwise
[08:50:04] <NcTn> he has some pretty stupid opinions
[08:50:11] <Underdose> please explain this milo
[08:50:25] <Underdose> i don't want to visit your cancerous website
[08:50:44] <Moltar> uwotm8?
[08:51:28] <Bluuuuuuu> so the thunderclap thing is fixed now_
[08:51:37] <NcTn> https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/520194136591568896
[08:51:38] <@BenedictArnold> @Totalbiscuit: "https://t.co/13yHAKGIIq" (https://archive.today/cvptn)
[08:51:54] <Bluuuuuuu> ?
[08:52:12] <NcTn> sc2 refrence
[08:52:32] <@Thidran> Mm?
[08:52:46] <@Thidran> Personally, Milo's okay, but he has his issues.
11[08:52:50] * @Thidran shrugs.
[08:53:01] <@Thidran> Just like me, you, and everyone else.
03[08:53:01] * Retrieving #burgersandfries modes...
[08:53:02] <Underdose> what is #burgersandfries policy regarding ascii art; is it ok if it's over in a few seconds?
[08:53:12] <Bluuuuuuu> cant find any mention of #NYS on the thunderclap
[08:53:18] <NcTn> no
[08:53:20] <NcTn> i mean
[08:53:22] <NcTn> you can try
[08:53:36] <NcTn> “I support ethics in gaming journalism, creative freedom and inclusiveness. I'm #GamerGate and #NotYourShield
[08:53:37] <Underdose> well
03[08:53:37] * Falis ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:53:40] <NcTn> ar u blind bluuuu?
[08:53:44] <NcTn> R U BLIND/
[08:53:58] <Underdose> depending on how you define it there is one-line ascii art
[08:53:58] <Bluuuuuuu> in the large info dump i mean
[08:54:00] <Underdose> like
[08:54:03] <Underdose> █▄▄ ███ █▄▄ █▄█▄█ █▄█ ▀█▀
[08:54:06] <Moltar> I think Milos best quality is his sense of humor, and it happens to be the thing that pisses off SJWs the most
[08:54:06] <Bluuuuuuu> no explanation vid
[08:54:20] <Underdose> u can paste that onto twatter if you like
[08:54:24] <Underdose> just don't use hashtags
[08:54:39] <Moltar> he wears his feelings and insecurities on his sleeve and that kind of honesty is admirable and shows good character imo
[08:54:49] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "@willardfoxton Me too." (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520195713524072448)
[08:54:50] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/DCBLp
09[08:54:53] * Falis ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[08:55:01] <Moltar> but because of that brashness, he's prone to putting his foot in his mouth from time to time
09[08:55:45] * Yarn ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[08:55:52] <Moltar> I don't hold it against him though, I'd rather he just be himself than sanitize himself to conform to what's considered 'good PR'
[08:56:05] <@Thidran> Agreed.
[08:56:23] <@Thidran> He's a hot blooded type.
[08:56:33] <@Thidran> But occasionally makes mistakes. Gotta be careful on that.
03[08:56:36] * Sebtoast ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:56:59] <@Thidran> Key here though is he does learn from 'em.
[08:57:08] <Moltar> some people really go overboard with the self-censoring calls when he puts his foot in his mouth
[08:57:26] <IamDong> i am dong
03[08:57:26] * merrickx12 ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[08:57:31] <@Thidran> Just the nature of the beast Moltar.
[08:57:47] <Moltar> the more we try to censor ourselves to be more PC, the more we become like the SJWs
[08:58:09] <@Thidran> The only area where I'd stop 'em was when he leaked the emails and left certain contact bits if I recall correctly.
09[08:58:14] * merrickz ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[08:58:16] <@Thidran> It happens though.
[08:59:08] <Moltar> well yeah that was a genuine error though
[08:59:11] <basedtc> "the SJWs" lol
[08:59:12] <Moltar> not an opinion
11[08:59:15] * @Thidran nods.
[08:59:17] <stealthsuit> We cannot be PC
[08:59:25] <stealthsuit> I'll say things now to break political correctness
[08:59:25] <@Thidran> That's important stuff.
[08:59:30] <@Thidran> tone policing as a whole is dumb.
[08:59:48] <stealthsuit> Shit-stomping faggots, bitchy trannies, goddamn niggers, stupid fucking kikes and fuck the gooks.
[08:59:49] <@Thidran> I'm mainly stepping in whenever it looks like someone's beginning to rage though.
[09:00:04] <@Thidran> Only because it defeats the purpose of letting them flail at you.
[09:00:27] <stealthsuit> Yup
[09:00:30] <Bluuuuuuu> lol https://twitter.com/Ectocooler_hi_c/status/519845892955074560
[09:00:31] <@BenedictArnold> @Ectocooler_hi_c: "#GamerGate @misterbrilliant isn't so brilliant at covering up his own lies.  Seriously, these fucks man...so dumb http://t.co/5YitSIG7LR" (https://archive.today/vyhg7)
[09:00:57] <basedtc> wait so is gamergate's cause to just say whatever you want?
[09:01:03] <Moltar> basedtc if you want to join in the conversation you can feel free.  Most people here are reasonably minded to disagreement, I think.  You don't have to sit at the back passing snide remarks
[09:01:05] <basedtc> I don't get how "Shit-stomping faggots, bitchy trannies, goddamn niggers, stupid fucking kikes and fuck the gooks. " is helping the cause
09[09:01:06] * IamDong ([email protected]) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[09:01:33] <Moltar> basedtc the invisible hand
03[09:01:38] * Synthovine ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:01:42] <basedtc> ditto holding Milo up, he seems to be covering this opportunistically (why aren't other conservative voices supporting GG?)
[09:01:46] <Moltar> shitposting will find its rightful place in the shitter
[09:01:56] <Moltar> the best posts will be pushed to the top through natural selection
[09:02:02] <basedtc> do you really believe that?
[09:02:13] <Moltar> it's worked for gamergate thus far
[09:02:21] <basedtc> how so
[09:02:29] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "RT @AntDeRosa: "Buzzfeed is really an ad agency with some journalistic window dressing.” - @sullydish http://t.co/73glKDA0fN" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520197639728812032)
[09:02:29] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/dl3Kf
[09:02:33] <Moltar> because that's what's been happening this whole time
[09:02:42] <Makarios> Adam Baldwin?
[09:02:50] <Moltar> and our message has for the most part stayed on course
[09:02:50] <@Thidran> https://twitter.com/ross_lumbus/status/520197252485111808
[09:02:51] <@BenedictArnold> @ross_lumbus: "@Captain_Chaox @Relyt22 @RandomCallsign @RustledBonquers @xvszero #Gamergate My wood? Is this a sex thing? Are you hitting on me? :)" (https://archive.today/IcHc4)
[09:02:59] <Makarios> The sure as hell isn't a prog
[09:02:59] <Makarios> He
[09:03:03] <@Thidran> based: They are.
[09:03:07] <Rupang> kinky
[09:03:11] <Moltar> the opposition keeps trying to obfuscate our motives and ambitions
[09:03:16] <Moltar> but it's not working very well
[09:03:17] <basedtc> which are?
[09:03:28] <basedtc> genuinely curious what you think your ambitions are
[09:03:28] <@Thidran> Bloggers.
03[09:03:47] * Char_Aznable ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:03:48] <Moltar> ethical standards in video game journalism, no more ideological nepotism and cronyism
[09:03:52] <@Thidran> ^
[09:04:14] <@Thidran> It seems that video game journalists are aiming to drag everything down with 'em in the process.
[09:04:17] <@Thidran> Which I find amusing.
[09:04:25] <@Thidran> Hell, they did the samson option yesterday against youtubers.
[09:04:29] <Moltar> journalists having positions of power over their readers and using that position to censor those who disagree with them
[09:04:38] <basedtc> what does censor mean, hiding comments?
[09:04:40] <basedtc> that's not censorship
[09:04:40] <@Thidran> No.
[09:04:43] <Underdose> how about people voice their opinions without having to tailor it to other people's bias
[09:04:48] <@Thidran> It means hitting up unrelated sites to shut people down.
[09:04:49] <Underdose> and we all get along blisfully
[09:04:56] <@Thidran> I stepped in whenever 4chan itself was getting censored.
[09:05:10] <@Thidran> It wasn't just one or two spots.
[09:05:21] <@Thidran> It effected almost all major gaming news sites, reddit, 4chan, and tumblr.
[09:05:34] <Underdose> censored is an ugly word, the chinese version is better
[09:05:39] <Moltar> basedtc blackballing them from inclusion into the industry, threatening their livelihoods, acts of violence (syringe to milo)
[09:05:41] <Moltar> etc..
[09:05:47] <Underdose> 15:03:01 <@Thidran> I stepped in whenever 4chan itself was getting harmonised.
[09:05:48] <Underdose> see?
11[09:05:54] * @Thidran grins at Underdosed.
[09:06:12] <@Thidran> But yes, we do have goals in sight.
[09:06:19] <@Thidran> And options for them to even accept.
[09:06:23] <@Thidran> Or not as required.
[09:06:51] <basedtc> so what does ethical games journalism look like
[09:06:53] <NcTn> http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-most-influential-people-of-all-time?page=1
[09:06:54] <NcTn> kek
[09:06:58] <NcTn> when u see it
[09:07:00] <NcTn> nr 7
[09:07:01] <Underdose> basedtc: zero punctuation
[09:07:02] <@Thidran> Gimme a moment.
[09:07:05] <NcTn> 6
[09:07:10] <Underdose> 100% ethical, 100% of the time
[09:07:15] <@Thidran> http://www.afjonline.com/ethics.cfm Option one.
[09:07:16] <Moltar> basedtc you've seen that tweet by leigh alexander where she flat out admits to killing someone's career because she didn't like them and none of her colleagues called her out on it?  That type of censorship
[09:07:26] <@Thidran> http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
[09:07:28] <@Thidran> Option 2.
[09:07:28] <Underdose> in the future it will only be possible to do game journalism with a british accent
[09:07:43] <@Thidran> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12224-The-Official-Ethics-Policy-of-The-Escapist
[09:07:45] <@Thidran> Option 3.
[09:07:49] <Standard> Ahaha, Hotwheels
[09:07:55] <basedtc> most of the publications you are blackballing abide by SPJ
00[09:07:59] <DoktorSleepless> Hitler is STILL #1. Holy fucking shit.
[09:08:03] <@Thidran> At this point, they have three options to pick and choose from to cobble together.
[09:08:05] <@Thidran> And no they don't.
[09:08:08] <basedtc> yes they do!
[09:08:12] <@Thidran> Not even close.
[09:09:00] <Underdose> hitler was a nobody
[09:09:09] <Underdose> the japs killed more than he did in ww2
[09:09:10] <Moltar> http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
03[09:09:14] * flameninja ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:09:15] <Moltar> yeahh..... nahh bro
[09:09:15] <Underdose> and stalin killed more than both combined
[09:09:18] <@Thidran> Showed that Moltar.
[09:09:21] <Moltar> not even close lmao
[09:09:22] <Underdose> he was only 3rd place
[09:09:23] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "It's raining and cold so I've cancelled my meetings, ordered a takeaway and opened a bottle of Malbec" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520199377651249152)
[09:09:23] <@Thidran> They have three options.
[09:09:24] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/qSTqa
[09:09:29] <Moltar> not even fucking close
[09:09:33] <basedtc> I mean the gaming industry has forced publications to operate within a context of access journalism forever, why are you not going after the publishers?
09[09:09:45] * BrownElfTrapMaid ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[09:09:49] <basedtc> hell, GameInformer is owned by GameStop and was one of the most popular for a long time
[09:09:50] <@Thidran> You think we aren't?
11[09:10:00] * @Thidran grins toothily.
[09:10:03] <basedtc> I haven't seen any GG messaging directed at game companies
[09:10:23] <@Thidran> Then you haven't been paying attention. Journalists are the primary bit though, considering the obvious.
[09:10:25] <basedtc> I'd love to see it if it exists
[09:10:36] <@Thidran> Why? Take the latest media blitz.
[09:10:42] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "@laurakfillault Did I mention I'm wrapped in a blanket and gently drifting in and out of sleep" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520199708212740096)
03[09:10:42] * DTrig is now known as DTrig-Sleeping
[09:10:43] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/47tZe
[09:10:53] <@Thidran> 12+ articles focusing on youtubers getting brand deals from companies.
[09:10:57] <Moltar> basedtc I don't see the publishers as responsible for the ideological cronyism and nepotism.
[09:10:58] <DepressionFries> wut
[09:11:01] <DepressionFries> they removed ebola-chan
[09:11:09] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "@laurakfillault Sorry not sorry" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520199822486552576)
[09:11:10] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/xz4mj
[09:11:19] <basedtc> I don't get the relevance
[09:11:24] <Moltar> basedtc yeah AAA related corruption has been there since forever and everyone knows about it and hates it
[09:11:32] <@Thidran> based: They are attacking youtubers in the same vein that they attacked us.
[09:11:45] <@Thidran> Which is going to throw more fuel to the fire long term.
[09:11:57] <basedtc> who is attacking youtubers
[09:12:02] <@Thidran> The gaming journos.
[09:12:02] <basedtc> trying to follow
[09:12:04] <Moltar> basedtc but these problems of ideological cronyism and ideological nepotism are relatively new, and IMO are infinitely more toxic to the industry
[09:12:07] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "@laurakfillault Enjoy your day!" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520200067446493184)
[09:12:08] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/yj0iE
[09:12:10] <Underdose> then become a good game journalist
[09:12:18] <basedtc> what is an example of ideological nepotism moltar, coverage of indie games?
[09:12:24] <@Thidran> No.
[09:12:29] <basedtc> cultural criticism?
[09:12:33] <@Thidran> Only allowing games in if it fulfills a specific slant.
[09:12:45] <basedtc> what do you mean only allowing games in
[09:12:47] <@Thidran> Note, we've already fought against this a decade ago.
[09:12:52] <@Thidran> Selective coverage.
[09:12:54] <basedtc> last I checked sites like Kotaku and Polygon cover all the big blockbusters
[09:13:04] <@Thidran> I'm not talking blockbusters.
[09:13:26] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "@laurakfillault Oooh good idea. I'll book something. Just found a firm that sends people to your house, it's the best." (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520200396401561600)
[09:13:27] <%fotts> Talking about Jack Thompson again?
[09:13:27] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/nhV20
[09:13:28] <basedtc> what do you think these journalists should not be covering
[09:13:33] <@Thidran> fotts: It really applies.
[09:13:38] <@Thidran> based: Their friends.
[09:13:41] <@Thidran> Their lovers.
[09:13:48] <@Thidran> The people they financially support.
[09:13:48] <Moltar> basedtc it's not the cultural criticism in itself, it's the behavior of the cartel which coerces a very specific brand of cultural criticism on its audience and excludes from the agenda any debate or questions about this type of cultural criticism
[09:13:50] <basedtc> wasn't the zoe quinn thing debunked
03[09:13:50] * basedtc was kicked by GeorgeWashington (Watch your language!)
[09:13:56] <@Thidran> It was not.
03[09:14:07] * basedtc ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:14:08] <@Thidran> Hahaha.
[09:14:09] <basedtc> not sure what I said
[09:14:10] <basedtc> lol
[09:14:11] <@Thidran> It was not.
[09:14:23] <@Thidran> See, the original claim was debunked yes(No reviews).
[09:14:29] <@Thidran> But what those jokers didn't realize is...
[09:14:35] <@Thidran> The guy's boss confirmed the romantic relationship.
[09:14:43] <%fotts> Maya Kramer, and Robert Arnott still gave her those rewards regardless of how intimately related they were
[09:14:55] <%fotts> Nathan Grayson?
[09:14:56] <@Thidran> What his dispute was is that it didn't happen during the same time frame that the articles were written.
[09:15:10] <@Thidran> (Which, by the way, STILL rate as a CoI because of him being friends with her beforehand).
[09:15:13] <basedtc> right, if it happened afterward how could there be any conflict
[09:15:15] <@Thidran> Yes, Nathan Grayson.
[09:15:20] <@Thidran> Because he was friends with her.
[09:15:26] <@Thidran> Sleeping with someone just makes it even more obvious.
[09:15:27] <%fotts> He went official two days after the article, but was with her a month before, if you look at the Convention Vlogs, Thidran basedtc
[09:15:37] <@Thidran> fotts: Ayup.
[09:15:41] <@BenedictArnold> @thunderf00t: "@femfreq is best described as the entitlement temper-tantrum of a privilged white feminist cos some game devs make games for a male audience" (https://twitter.com/thunderf00t/status/520200964268371969)
[09:15:42] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/bW8I0
[09:16:09] <%fotts> The best part is that most of the 5 Guys were there, too!
[09:16:14] <@Thidran> Mmhmm!
[09:16:16] <@Thidran> That shit was hilarious.
[09:16:16] <Moltar> lol I had a 4 hour debate with some SJW yesterday who failed to understand that sexual relationships and monetary exchange between journalist+subject compromise journalistic integrity regardless of whether it was a transactional arragement or not
[09:16:18] <meklu> "well, they weren't reviews" has been a point parroted by many
[09:16:32] <@Thidran> meklu: Intentionally.
[09:16:40] <meklu> quite.
[09:16:40] <@Thidran> That's the "build a strawman to knock it down" tactic.
[09:16:55] <%fotts> Also she slept with her boss, a married man, which is against what she believes (A, one should not cheat, B, sanctity of marriage)
[09:16:58] <meklu> minutiae are so much fun
[09:17:12] <basedtc> so you guys think this example of conflict of interest represents a systemic problem with people who cover games
[09:17:20] <%fotts> Yes
[09:17:21] <@Thidran> It became it, yeah.
[09:17:25] <Moltar> yup
09[09:17:29] * AdmiralSlug ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[09:17:31] <basedtc> ok
[09:17:34] <Moltar> not unique to games, of course
[09:17:39] <@Thidran> Before the gamers are dead issue, we found what was it?
[09:17:44] <@Thidran> At least a dozen separate instances?
[09:17:47] <Moltar> but games are our industry and we care about them
[09:17:48] <%fotts> Hell, Dewrito Pope is a saint compared to these ass bags
[09:17:53] <@Thidran> fotts: No.
[09:18:00] <@Thidran> No he's not, but he does a different form of corruption.
[09:18:05] <@Thidran> Just keep that in mind.
[09:18:18] <%fotts> Yeah, tie-in deals that were too tied-in
[09:18:25] <%fotts> Also, bumping metacritic scores
[09:18:29] <@Thidran> Ayup.
[09:18:32] <@Thidran> The money shit.
[09:18:39] <Makarios> Remeber Patricia Hernandez? She was one of the most blalant ones
[09:18:44] <@Thidran> Yep.
[09:18:46] <%fotts> Getting promo's from sponsors is ok, but when it gets in the way of integrity, you are out the door
[09:18:52] <@Thidran> Wrote for Christine Love and Anna Anthropy.
[09:18:55] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "The Vatican has turned its back on Latin http://t.co/QekQb41R2M" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520201773231783936)
[09:18:55] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/TToZL
[09:19:01] <%fotts> She lived with her subjects, Makarios
[09:19:01] <@Thidran> fotts: Nope.
[09:19:03] <@Thidran> Not okay.
11[09:19:10] * %fotts shrugs
[09:19:24] <Makarios> She was her landlord afair
[09:19:25] <%fotts> So only ads are ok?
[09:19:39] <@Thidran> fotts: Promos are fine if you're doing giveaways for example.
[09:19:44] <Makarios> And she was romantically involved with Anna Antrophy i think
[09:19:50] <Moltar> basedtc what's your connection to this whole issue?  I'm not asking you for your identity, but if you wouldn't mind explaining a bit about where you're coming from, I think it would help for the sake of empathy and understanding
[09:19:51] <@Thidran> But keeping them for yourself/ A no no.
[09:20:02] <%fotts> hah
[09:20:05] <@Thidran> But that's just me.
[09:20:13] <%fotts> May as well be the investors in polytron, at that point, Thidran
11[09:20:27] * @Thidran grins at fotts.
[09:20:29] <@Thidran> Yep.
[09:20:38] <%fotts> Fuck them
[09:20:45] <%fotts> And OIG
[09:20:47] <@Thidran> Can't wait for the incoming lawsuit.
[09:20:48] <Moltar> basedtc like what do you view as the most positive and negative aspects of gamergate and why do you agree or disagree with those aspects
[09:20:52] <%fotts> Cameralady makes me proud
[09:20:57] <@Thidran> Heh.
[09:21:00] <basedtc> Moltar I write for The Verge :)
[09:21:08] <Moltar> ok
[09:21:29] <@Thidran> Fair enough.
[09:21:34] <basedtc> I'm a journalist, I wrote the piece last night that everyone is angry about
[09:21:37] <basedtc> happy to reveal my identity
[09:21:41] <basedtc> just want to talk to some folks
[09:21:42] <@Thidran> Understandable.
[09:21:52] <basedtc> thanks for speaking with me
[09:21:53] <@Thidran> Because you're likely on the outside looking in.
[09:22:01] <@Thidran> Everyone's welcome here since it's a public room.
[09:22:06] <Moltar> basedtc would you mind verifying that through a tweet or something?  have to be skeptical
[09:22:07] <basedtc> well I've been a PC gamer for two decades for what it;s worth
[09:22:25] <Moltar> hey, me too
[09:22:26] <basedtc> sure Moltar I'll tweet "420" in a minute
[09:22:33] <Moltar> ok
[09:22:39] <%fotts> Well I can't really juxtapose that slant piece with being a gamer for 20 years
[09:22:41] <@Thidran> Moltar: Under which name so I can pick it up?
[09:22:47] <@Thidran> fotts: It's a narrative.
[09:22:58] <@Thidran> I know how it goes, especially if your boss is telling you to write specifically.
[09:22:58] <basedtc> https://twitter.com/chillmage/status/520202769731706880
[09:23:00] <@BenedictArnold> @chillmage: "420" (https://archive.today/yzcqO)
[09:23:04] <%fotts> I guess I expect people to be a bit more honest
[09:23:16] <%fotts> say shoe on head, basedtc
[09:23:19] <@Thidran> Journalism in general is fucked.
[09:23:24] <basedtc> on twitter? that'd be pretty random
[09:23:30] <@Thidran> That's one lesson ya'll need to understand.
[09:23:39] <NcTn> https://twitter.com/Kingofpol/status/520183692187435008
[09:23:39] <basedtc> I'll put it in my profile
[09:23:40] <@BenedictArnold> @Kingofpol: "@leighalexander if you feel so inclined to judge my knowledge on subjects lets debate this properly on my show, healthy and progressive." (https://archive.today/ijO7H)
[09:23:41] <%fotts> it's the trial by fire, basedtc
[09:23:43] <@Thidran> Alright.
[09:23:48] <basedtc> lol
[09:23:55] <%fotts> shoe on head or gtfo
[09:24:03] <@Thidran> Let me know when it's ready.
[09:24:23] <basedtc> https://twitter.com/chillmage
[09:24:30] <basedtc> ok my profile location now says "shoe on head"
[09:24:38] <meklu> confrimed
[09:24:45] <@Thidran> Alright.
[09:24:46] <@Thidran> https://archive.today/gYq2E
[09:24:48] <@Thidran> Confirmed.
[09:24:53] <basedtc> p. good location tbh
[09:25:25] <%fotts> So you live with the old lady that lives in a shoe
[09:25:29] <%fotts> on your own head
[09:25:31] <Char_Aznable> I'm surprised we haven't just flagged down the spammers in the hashtag like man in black
[09:25:32] <%fotts> *arc http://i.imgur.com/HBjP9Y9.png
[09:25:33] <@BenedictArnold> submitted: https://archive.today/neo6O
[09:25:45] <@Thidran> Char: Indeed.
[09:25:55] <basedtc> well just to be clear my boss didn't tell me to write that piece, I stand behind it fully
[09:25:58] <@Thidran> He's giving us some pretty good help.
[09:26:00] <%fotts> *arc https://twitter.com/chillmage
[09:26:01] <@BenedictArnold> submitted: https://archive.today/gYq2E
11[09:26:03] * @Thidran rubs his chin.
[09:26:07] <@Thidran> Alright then.
[09:26:17] <%fotts> It'd be dishonest to do so, Char_Aznable
11[09:27:02] * @Thidran goes to pull up the relevant article.
[09:27:13] <@Thidran> Stop supporting Gamergate...
[09:27:24] <stealthsuit> Wait
[09:27:29] <stealthsuit> You're THAT TC?
[09:27:30] <%fotts> Remember Tyrone ;_;7 http://youtu.be/a7FqXi7SydA
09[09:27:31] * Hakubi ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[09:27:32] <Moltar> basedtc just gonna read your piece again so it's fresh in my mind
[09:27:34] <stealthsuit> Oh my god
[09:27:35] <@Thidran> He is.
[09:27:43] <%fotts> calm yo tits, stealthsuit
[09:27:44] <@Thidran> Hey, he's willing to stand up for his article.
[09:27:50] <stealthsuit> No, I'm surprised
[09:27:52] <@Thidran> Give him respect for his guts.
[09:28:02] <stealthsuit> He's willing to directly engage us
[09:28:02] <stealthsuit> That's gutsy
[09:28:04] <Moltar> don't gang up on him, be kind
[09:28:05] <@Thidran> Indeed.
[09:28:06] <%fotts> It's been a while since we had someone of import on the channel
03[09:28:22] * merrickz ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:28:23] <%fotts> Man, we need Sargon, and Nero in this channel
09[09:28:29] * ayylmao1488 ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
[09:28:33] <Moltar> as opposed to all those of expor
09[09:28:34] * merrickx12 ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[09:28:34] <Moltar> t
[09:28:45] <DepressionFries> fotts you have me :o
[09:28:49] <%fotts> Becaur Impor is superior nation, Moltar
[09:29:05] <%fotts> Literally, who? DepressionFries
[09:29:07] <@Thidran> In the meantime, I'm rereading this article.
[09:29:07] <stealthsuit> So uh, welcome to our cathedral of misogyny.
[09:29:07] <stealthsuit> No
[09:29:07] <stealthsuit> Republia!
[09:29:08] <stealthsuit> Forever.
[09:29:15] <basedtc> lol
[09:29:22] <%fotts> That guy makes so many good games
[09:29:46] <%fotts> I haven't beaten Republia Times
[09:29:52] <NcTn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqGGNf5fv8k
[09:29:53] <stealthsuit> It was costly
[09:29:54] <NcTn> irc theme
[09:29:58] <%fotts> I can't defame the Republia Gov't fast enough
[09:30:13] <basedtc> well I'm not going to *stay* here because I imagine you all would find that to be a chilling effect, but if you want to talk to me I'll be here for a bit
[09:30:37] <stealthsuit> No dude, you're welcome to hang out
[09:30:44] <stealthsuit> You'll hear a lot of expletives, though, this is a free speech zone
09[09:30:51] * flameninja ([email protected]) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[09:30:59] <%fotts> You'll hear swearing because it's a free speech zone
[09:31:10] <stealthsuit> Jinx?
[09:31:12] <basedtc> fuck shit piss cunt cock motherfucker tits
[09:31:14] <@Thidran> Nah, that's fine based.
[09:31:18] <basedtc> is that the secret handshake
[09:31:19] <@Thidran> You're welcome to visit whenever.
[09:31:27] <%fotts> We don't let hot button words shut down discussion
[09:31:29] <@Thidran> Because we're a public room.
[09:31:42] <@Thidran> Been waiting actually, since so few accepted the invitation.
[09:31:52] <%fotts> Aw
[09:31:56] <%fotts> Gwen and Cmaera isn't here
[09:32:15] <meklu> The secret handshake is a mere /join
[09:32:24] <stealthsuit> Yup
[09:32:28] <%fotts> or click the irc url
[09:32:31] <meklu> all else is extra courtesy :)
[09:32:58] <stealthsuit> Also, don't say anything that has the letters r, a, p and e
[09:33:06] <stealthsuit> in that order
[09:33:06] <stealthsuit> or x and d
[09:33:08] <@Thidran> Alright, what would you like to talk about based, if anything more?
[09:33:08] <stealthsuit> or a, y, y.
[09:33:14] <Moltar> basedtc your article just seems like an aggregation of inflammatory stereotypes, buzzwords, and attitudes.  So, I guess, congrats for summing up the anti-GG rhetoric.  You didn't do a bad job with that.
[09:33:25] <Makarios> also mentioning the Zoo Queen
[09:33:36] <stealthsuit> We don't talk about Lw here
[09:33:57] <%fotts> I can say rape because I'm a hop
[09:34:09] <stealthsuit> Lucky you
[09:34:16] <@Thidran> Yeah, had to start restricting more as more shills popped in and trolled a lot.
[09:34:17] <@Thidran> Got old.
[09:34:18] <%fotts> shut up you merchant
[09:34:28] <stealthsuit> :(
[09:34:32] <stealthsuit> what do I sell?
[09:34:34] <@Thidran> Gameovergate was pretty annoying as a result.
[09:34:35] <%fotts> Don't be sad
[09:34:41] <%fotts> Araf is a merchant, too
[09:34:57] <%fotts> Hah, there's been what 6 of those counter-movements? Thidran ?
[09:34:57] <stealthsuit> Would you come into my room, I will show you all my wares~
[09:34:59] <DepressionFries> fotts is a rabbi
[09:35:03] <basedtc> Moltar I'll be very clear with a TL;DR (from my personal standpoint and not professional): from a strategic point of view gamergate has virtually no credibility because it's been punching down from the beginning. IMO you're going after the wrong people
[09:35:08] <@Thidran> Something like that.
[09:35:13] <Araf> fotts: sup?
[09:35:19] <Araf> Oy vey!
[09:35:22] <Araf> Its anotha shoah
03[09:35:23] * pereba ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:35:27] <%fotts> We just need a jew to say that they are okay with jew slurs, Ara
[09:35:29] <stealthsuit> basedtc: To be honest I think you're viewing us from the wrong lens here
[09:35:30] <%fotts> araf*
[09:35:33] <stealthsuit> WE're not punching down
[09:35:38] <stealthsuit> we're punching up
[09:35:39] <@Thidran> He thinks we're a top down style of movement.
[09:35:47] <%fotts> Top down?
[09:35:48] <Moltar> basedtc you're set on the whole gamergate is hypocritical because we're ignoring AAA related corruption in media?
[09:35:51] <Araf> Fucking shabbo goy
[09:35:54] <@Thidran> Organization, leaders...
[09:35:55] <@Thidran> That sort of thing.
[09:35:59] <@Thidran> We're bottom up.
[09:36:01] <@Thidran> Like ants.
[09:36:06] <stealthsuit> Hierarchy fosters the lie
[09:36:07] <%fotts> How can the bottom, the gamers, punch down at the industry, who is above us? basedtc
[09:36:07] <basedtc> I don't think it's hypocritical I just think it's misguided
[09:36:13] <basedtc> the industry is not above you fotts
[09:36:19] <basedtc> consumers drive the industry
[09:36:27] <%fotts> But they are not at the top
[09:36:27] <basedtc> their preferences are reflected in what they get out of it
[09:36:37] <stealthsuit> But consumers are the passive agent of the relation, basedtc
[09:36:42] <basedtc> and for the vast majority of gaming history those preferences have been embodied by dudes
[09:36:46] <%fotts> YOu have the pyramid of power/representation backwards, basedtc
[09:36:52] <@Thidran> Mm, not exactly.
[09:36:56] <@Thidran> It has been off and on.
[09:36:57] <Standard> Attacking the people who have the power to censor, spread propaganda and misrepresent you is punching down, clearly.
[09:36:59] <@Thidran> With women coming along over the years.
[09:37:01] <Moltar> basedtc you don't think there's any creedence to the idea of ideological cronyism and ideological nepotism between game journos, PR, academics, and indie devs?
[09:37:23] <basedtc> sure I think journalists are too cozy with the indie scene but to say that's the critical problem in games journalism is laughable
[09:37:24] <@Thidran> If anything, it has improved in recent years(Before the media blitz at least.)
[09:37:41] <basedtc> games journalism is bullshit, it's based totally on access with corporate representation and there's no way around it
[09:37:46] <@Thidran> There is.
[09:37:48] <basedtc> journalists have less power than you think in the scheme
[09:37:53] <@Thidran> But I don't think that they're going to like it.
[09:38:01] <stealthsuit> It's going to cost money to get around it.
[09:38:06] <stealthsuit> Thing is.
[09:38:07] <@Thidran> Why do you think we're planning on holding out until the holidays?
11[09:38:15] * @Thidran grins mischievously.
[09:38:25] <Moltar> basedtc I notice you're forgoing the ideological problems entirely and just looking at 'closeness' regardless of the motivations and nature of that closeness
[09:38:34] <stealthsuit> You know what games journalism needs?
[09:38:36] <stealthsuit> A Hunter S Thompson.
[09:38:46] <@Thidran> It could help actually, yeah.
09[09:38:50] * Rupang ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: My computer goes Zzzzz)
03[09:39:05] * Rupang ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:39:15] <stealthsuit> Someone who will say what they mean, and not give a fuck about the consequence. Who will go to the events and make notice of all of them. No filter, no expectation of saying nice things. Gonzo journalism.
[09:39:20] <meklu> basedtc: so you're saying you'd prefer to have people going after the Activision/EA/Ubisoft level of developers?
[09:39:30] <basedtc> yes!
03[09:39:36] * Rupang ([email protected]) has left #burgersandfries
[09:39:36] <basedtc> not really I'd prefer
[09:39:45] <basedtc> I don't have a big dog in this fight personally
03[09:40:04] * TheBaconFromHell ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:40:07] <meklu> I'd say that much of this controversy seems to have sparked from there being a seemingly anti-gamer backlash upon calling out rotten behaviour
[09:40:10] <%fotts> We don't like being misrepresented, is all, basedtc
[09:40:14] <%fotts> Or lied to
[09:40:16] <TheBaconFromHell> Arcon
[09:40:21] <%fotts> I think other people can at least agree on that
09[09:40:26] * haegarr (~haegarr@DE04B25:2EBA8A11:69D6502E:IP) Quit (Quit: Help M***CARRIER LOST***)
03[09:40:33] * ghosts ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:40:41] <basedtc> yeah well it's going to be very difficult to control your image based on Gamergate's origins and the level of anger and harassment that's come out of it, whether any of you have been involved in that or not
[09:40:46] <TheBaconFromHell> thidran?
[09:40:47] <@Thidran> Oh.
[09:40:55] <@Thidran> The private SA spat that went public?
[09:41:00] <basedtc> which is actually the biggest point I wanted to make in my piece
[09:41:08] <meklu> in the Dewritos Pope case there was no media pushback upon the accusations
03[09:41:10] * SnaxBot|93437 ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:41:11] <TheBaconFromHell> yeah heres further proof Ive never taken a deal - http://i.imgur.com/kD5Gmkg.png
[09:41:12] <basedtc> I wasn't saying that all GG supporters are angry militants, not even close to what I was saying
09[09:41:17] * SnaxBot|93437 ([email protected]) Quit
[09:41:18] <basedtc> but the well is poisoned
[09:41:23] <Underdose> games journalism will become less of a force when the market flips and stores like steam become the de-facto standard for purchasing; user ratings and reviews will carry more influence because it will be available at time of purchase
[09:41:29] <@Thidran> Not really, because otherwise we wouldn'tve lasted so long.
[09:41:30] <GreyFoxx> based: Show me a "well" that isn't
[09:41:34] <Underdose> tbh it will be better
[09:41:36] <basedtc> that's an equivocation
[09:41:48] <stealthsuit> I think there's a mischaracterization of this movement to begin with
[09:41:48] <stealthsuit> basedtc: Have you read the actual timeline?
[09:41:48] <stealthsuit> The harrassment started from the other side
[09:41:48] <stealthsuit> This would not have blown up if it hadn't been for the Streisand Effect.
[09:41:48] <@Thidran> You performed a conflation.
09[09:41:56] * Falz ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[09:41:56] <basedtc> gamergate's trolls have been extremely loud compared to other movements
[09:41:56] <Underdose> true and visible user scoring will make gamecorp meddling harder
[09:42:00] <GreyFoxx> As soon as you have more than 1 person in any group/movement, SOMEONE is going to do or say something others disagree with
[09:42:10] <GreyFoxx> and then outsides will use that 1 to blame the entire crowd
[09:42:14] <%fotts> ALso, they'll become less relevant when industry heads like TB gain larger viewerships, and the Nintendo directly communicate with their audiences, basedtc
03[09:42:16] * haegarr ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:42:18] <@Thidran> Oop.
[09:42:23] <@Thidran> Okay people, ease off.
[09:42:27] <@Thidran> So he can catch up.
[09:42:31] <%fotts> If anything, the Journalists are getting desperate with their slant pieces
[09:42:37] <Moltar> basedtc just to clarify, are you saying that the ideological homogenity between journos/pr/indies and issues of nepotism and cronyism therein are not as problematic as AAA-related corruption?  Or are you saying that those problems don't exist at all?
[09:42:41] <haegarr> ease off of who?
[09:42:45] <TheBaconFromHell> I like Ketchup
[09:42:48] <@Thidran> Just a moment.
03[09:42:51] * Thidran sets mode: +m
[09:42:57] <@Thidran> Keep in mind, he's one man.
[09:43:02] <%fotts> I don't recall many trolls in the movement to begin with
[09:43:05] <@Thidran> If it's more than three or four at a time...
[09:43:09] <@Thidran> Then he won't be able to catch up.
[09:43:12] <@Thidran> Unmuting.
03[09:43:15] * Thidran sets mode: -m
[09:43:26] <haegarr> who are we easing off of?
[09:43:34] <TheBaconFromHell> basedtc,
[09:43:36] <meklu> our lovely guest here
[09:43:36] <basedtc> I don't think there is ideological homogeneity, not to the extent that's being alleged. if anything the homogeneity historically has been to try to cover games from the bullshit "perspective from nowhere" and only focus on mechanical things instead of cultural criticism
[09:44:04] <basedtc> to be fair games have only recently started to become widely accepted as art so cultural criticism is also developing
11[09:44:18] * TheBaconFromHell googles the big word
03[09:44:29] * LucidMewZZZ ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:44:29] <Drybones> Guys I'm off to work in 30 minutes. Is there anything else to be done on my site?
[09:44:49] <TheBaconFromHell> add bacon.
[09:45:17] <Moltar> basedtc so you don't think the thunderous denouncement of anyone who dissents to that ideology is symptomatic of a problem to do with homogeneity?
[09:45:21] <stealthsuit> How about artistic instead of cultural criticism?
[09:45:21] <stealthsuit> You know the implications of cultural criticism.
[09:45:21] <stealthsuit> Not all of us want to be told how sexist a game is
[09:45:21] <stealthsuit> In fact, any such reporting just makes me ignore the article
[09:45:21] <%fotts> The large issue is that it's extremely rare for the "critics" to become so homogenised (same opinion across Vox, Kotaku, Polygon, Gamasutra, etc), and outright censor/ignore/attack its core demographic.
[09:45:33] <basedtc> stealthsuit the obvious response is not to read it
[09:45:42] <haegarr> Drybones: say that haegarr is a god :D
09[09:45:48] * Tile121 ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[09:46:00] <stealthsuit> Shouldn't games journalists be able to provide a balanced response or increase the political diversity of their staff, then?
[09:46:09] <%fotts> But when it's industry wide, and it causes wide spread defamation? basedtc ? Need I remind you of the creator of Cards Against Humanity
[09:46:13] <stealthsuit> Maybe I want to read a review that doesn't sound exactly like all the other ones.
[09:46:17] <basedtc> fotts I think that's a conspiracy theory, it's like charges of "liberal media" -- inclusivity is a prevailing perspective now it doesn't constitute cronyism
[09:46:17] <%fotts> Or the group behind dragon's crown
[09:46:50] <MirrorTrap> wtf is cards against humanity
[09:47:06] <Moltar> basedtc so you don't think the thunderous denouncement of anyone who dissents to that ideology is symptomatic of a problem to do with homogeneity?
[09:47:07] <@Thidran> It's a card game where you play offensive cards to varying situations.
[09:47:19] <basedtc> "objective" game reviews in the sense of not saying anything about its cultural import are not objective, they are just as political because they protect the status quo
[09:47:24] <%fotts> there was inclusivity regardless, but by spamming those slant pieces, more and more people will take them at face value, regardless of the validity. Saying the industry and community are sexist with no substantive evidence infact scares women away from the industry and community, slowing down the march.
09[09:47:29] * LucidMew_ ([email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03[09:47:37] * xenodora ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:47:47] <%fotts> It's how political campaigns works
[09:47:54] <@Thidran> The problem with the slant is you don't hold up positive examples.
[09:47:59] <TheBaconFromHell> sorry guys, I cant handle the big words. I defined Homoegeneous and he/she could of used "group of people with the same beliefs"
[09:48:05] <basedtc> like this comment that was just made in kotakuinaction is one of the reasons people are reacting to GG: "i'm tired of white feminists trying to change stuff because they're butthurt about a little thing "
[09:48:05] <@Thidran> If you don't do that right, people only see the negative.
[09:48:24] <haegarr> if I may say something
[09:48:32] <basedtc> the industry is sexist! there's a ton of evidence!
[09:48:35] <haegarr> I just want to respond to the cultural criticism piece
[09:48:36] <%fotts> You do need to realise it's mostly white men speaking on behalf of women about feminism, basedtc
11[09:48:36] * @Thidran checks the guy out.
[09:48:55] <basedtc> yeah and that's sad I wish I had more female colleagues
[09:49:00] <%fotts> Seems kind of counterintuitive, no?
[09:49:00] <basedtc> but it doesn't invalidate an argument
[09:49:16] <%fotts> It's invalidated because they ignore women that disagree with them
[09:49:16] <basedtc> you know, a lot of women are afraid to speak out online about things
[09:49:19] <@Thidran> Ahh, random troll.
[09:49:33] <@Thidran> At least he's not spamming the other room, so that helps.
[09:49:37] <stealthsuit> basedtc: Max Temkin is a feminist, yet he got thrown under the bus because people didn't get their facts straight
[09:49:39] <@Thidran> based: I know, and most guys are too.
[09:49:42] <Moltar> basedtc it's a poorly worded comment.  Perhaps it would better written as "I'm tired of white feminists trying to coerce change because they're butthurt about little things'
[09:49:43] <@Thidran> Know why?
[09:49:45] <stealthsuit> To the point where he had to apologize for being accused of rape
03[09:49:45] * stealthsuit was kicked by GeorgeWashington (Watch your language!)
03[09:49:50] * stealthsuit ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:49:50] <TheBaconFromHell> idk what you are saying basedtc, I spoke with a couple female developers.
[09:50:03] <%fotts> Same here
[09:50:08] <basedtc> and?
[09:50:10] <TheBaconFromHell> I think everyone here did.
[09:50:14] <@Thidran> Bacon: He might not fully appreciate what happens whenever you become a public face.
[09:50:20] <TheBaconFromHell> none of them were afraid to speak out.
[09:50:28] <basedtc> that's... anecdotal
[09:50:29] <@Thidran> Some aren't, some are.
[09:50:39] <basedtc> "not all female developers"
[09:50:42] <%fotts> Also Roberta Williams, and the Video Series made by TFYC want to talk to you. Also the lead designer for Bayonetta, and the Executive at FromSOFT
[09:51:00] <%fotts> Also the women from the Women of GamerGate Streams
[09:51:01] <TheBaconFromHell> one said that they wanted to make more female protagonists however demographics and sales and such wouldn't allow it.
[09:51:03] <@Thidran> based: Alright, here's one bit to think on...you might think that harassment is a gendered issue due to the methods trolls have been using...
[09:51:11] <basedtc> nobody is saying women are not part of gamergate
[09:51:21] <@Thidran> But what you might not notice is the trolls tailor their insults to derive the most pain.
[09:51:37] <@Thidran> What women have shown the trolls is apparently their gender gives them the most pain.
[09:51:42] <@Thidran> And thus, gendered insults by them.
[09:52:14] <%fotts> Also, tell me of this evidence of sexism, basedtc
[09:52:22] <basedtc> thebaconfromhell doesn't that indicate sexism
[09:52:25] <MirrorTrap> same thign with white, gay, straight, whatever
[09:52:30] <@Thidran> He might be taking trolls seriously.
[09:52:33] <basedtc> that demographics and sales wouldn't support making more female protagonists
[09:52:36] <@Thidran> Remember, trolls are the worst of the bunch.
[09:52:42] <Moltar> basedtc I think you'd agree that journalists are obligated to report in the interests of their readers (in our industry's case: consumers).  I think fundamentally, one of the main differences between ourselves and you is the idea of 'the consumers' best interests'.
[09:52:48] <%fotts> Look at Dota2, and Lol, basedtc
[09:52:49] <basedtc> that doesn't just speak to sexism in the games industry, it speaks to the sexism of its audience
[09:52:56] <@Thidran> Oh boy...
[09:53:02] <%fotts> Costume sales at Vindictus
[09:53:08] <stealthsuit> Female protagonists have been made since games started
[09:53:16] <MirrorTrap> stealthsuit your'e wrong
[09:53:16] <%fotts> Also the people who main as women in the FGC, and fighting games in general
[09:53:20] <MirrorTrap> there are none
[09:53:21] <MirrorTrap> even now
00[09:53:22] <DoktorSleepless> The thing is, a lot of games with female protags in recent years haven't been very good.
[09:53:24] <stealthsuit> MirrorTrap: I'm not, actually
[09:53:25] <MirrorTrap> these days they don't have any
[09:53:27] <Moltar> basedtc but don't you find it strange that, as journalists, you're arguing with consumers about what is best for them?  As if you'd know better than us?  What right do you think you have to decide this?
[09:53:33] <basedtc> you guys are cherry picking examples and not seeing the forest
[09:53:39] <MirrorTrap> i mean, i went to gamestop and didn't see any women around the entire block of that area
[09:53:43] <MirrorTrap> it's like they're not allowed
[09:53:50] <MirrorTrap> and also when you go inside they check to make sure you havea  penis
[09:53:54] <MirrorTrap> otherwise tehy tell you to go away
[09:53:57] <TheBaconFromHell> Its based on the consumer basedtc, and you gatta give it what it wants... who are the consumer? Men, Women & Trans Gender. basedtc
[09:53:58] <@Thidran> based: Show the trees(For example: Hanako games. Why did it take until 2013 to get media coverage of that one?)
[09:53:59] <stealthsuit> hahaha
[09:54:13] <basedtc> moltar nobody is telling consumers what's best for them as far as I know
[09:54:20] <NcTn> http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2ira05/when_lw2s_next_video_drops_please_for_the_love_of/
[09:54:28] <stealthsuit> Well, actually
[09:54:29] <stealthsuit> they are, TC
[09:54:31] <basedtc> by way of analogy
[09:54:35] <meklu> pro-tip: you can complete nicks with the tabulator
[09:54:35] <TheBaconFromHell> Everybody gets what they want to have in the game. It's less risk and more sales.
[09:54:42] <MirrorTrap> my gf managed to sneak in, but only because she used one of those bad dragon dildos
[09:54:54] <basedtc> brb
[09:54:55] <%fotts> Can someone find the video that parodies the Animaniac's Countries of the WOrld with the Names of Female Protagonists
[09:54:58] <@Thidran> Sure thing based.
[09:54:58] <stealthsuit> ok
[09:55:07] <@Thidran> Remember folk, don't mob 'em.
[09:55:16] <Moltar> basedtc but you are essentially ordering people who disagree with this radfem rhetoric to shut up and swallow it, because you know what's best and they don't.  Just look at the rhetoric about entitled manbaby misogynists.
[09:55:22] <%fotts> Because the guy lists hundreds of them
03[09:55:31] * Sorrido_Suneko ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:55:33] <MirrorTrap> i'm pretty sure the sign says "you must have at least one penis to enter"
[09:55:37] <%fotts> Every final fantasy games has women protags
[09:55:41] <TheBaconFromHell> alright imma head out guys
[09:55:43] <Moltar> basedtc it's exactly what you are doing
[09:55:49] <%fotts> Hell, 13 14 15 I think have female protags as the main
03[09:55:55] * Falis ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:55:57] <%fotts> Then there' Starcraft with Kerrigan
00[09:56:00] <DoktorSleepless> 15 is Bro Trip.
[09:56:01] <%fotts> All the fighting games ever
[09:56:06] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "I see @chillmage has been forced to backtrack and apologise for his absurd claim that #GamerGate is "right wing" http://t.co/71FqDeiHiR" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520211135052918785)
[09:56:06] <haegarr> fotts: 14 is the mmo :P
[09:56:07] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/bD36N
[09:56:14] <%fotts> Then there's Chrono Trigger
[09:56:20] <%fotts> haegarr: You can be a women in that
[09:56:23] <MakeNoCent> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMoLCA3GQ4
[09:56:31] <haegarr> fotts: not the samething though
[09:56:37] <MakeNoCent> was that the one you were looking for ?
[09:56:51] <%fotts> Then there's yes
[09:56:52] <basedtc> that's kind of a warped way of looking at it. a lot of people are saying that games portray women in a bad light (hint: just having a woman in a game does not constitute inclusivity)
[09:56:55] <TheBaconFromHell> wait for basedtv
[09:56:56] <%fotts> basedtc: This video http://youtu.be/RXMoLCA3GQ4
[09:57:01] <XavierMendel> Man, I'm still confused about the right wing part of gamergate
[09:57:01] <TheBaconFromHell> that vid
[09:57:06] <stealthsuit> In Crono Trigger
[09:57:06] <Moltar> basedtc how is it warped?
[09:57:10] <stealthsuit> Marle picks up the slack after Crono dies
[09:57:12] <XavierMendel> It seems like all the big names behind it are republicans. Especially Milo.
[09:57:13] <stealthsuit> Chrono*
[09:57:15] <MirrorTrap> Moltar they have penises
[09:57:15] <%fotts> basedtc then ask women in the gaming community what they think
[09:57:27] <MirrorTrap> fotts that's a straw man bc there are none
[09:57:28] <MirrorTrap> lol
[09:57:29] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "I'd never seen the word "overbroad" before, @chillmage. Does it mean "total and utter horseshit"? http://t.co/OUhbZpvJC1" (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520211483138203648)
[09:57:30] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/m7leq
[09:57:30] <MirrorTrap> pwned!
[09:57:31] <%fotts> Kite Tales, Jayd3fox, CH Sommers don't mind
[09:57:32] <stealthsuit> XavierMendel: Milo is British. He's not 'Republican'
[09:57:33] <basedtc> you're framing it as people telling consumers what they should want, this isn't about consumers it's about people -- it's a social reaction that has very little to actually do with video games
[09:57:39] <basedtc> it's a battle that's been fought all over the place
[09:57:41] <basedtc> in the tech industry
03[09:57:43] * Claud|phone ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:57:43] <basedtc> in hollywood
[09:57:45] <XavierMendel> stealthsuit: Right wing, then. Sorry.
[09:57:51] <Moltar> Thidran can you kickban BenedictArnold for the sake of flooding
[09:58:00] <TheBaconFromHell> basedtc, u watching the video?
[09:58:01] <Moltar> just so this conversation is easier to follow
[09:58:05] <haegarr> consumers are people though
[09:58:10] <%fotts> YOu forgot about comic books
03[09:58:12] * kingbumi ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:58:12] <MirrorTrap> no they're not
[09:58:16] <basedtc> no sorry there's a lot going on in here and I'm working at the same time thebaconfromhell
[09:58:16] <%fotts> Or did Maddox tear you a new one
[09:58:17] <haegarr> 99% of the games bought are by people
03[09:58:22] * Blakethebest ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[09:58:32] <XavierMendel> Anyway, right wing ideas usually don't match up with mine. It's odd to be on the same side.
[09:58:33] <MirrorTrap> oh yeah, maddox was right
[09:58:34] <TheBaconFromHell> maybe you should pick a different time for this arguement
[09:58:39] <Moltar> basedtc sorry but this is a free market, and it IS about consumers whether you want it to be or not.
[09:58:44] <MirrorTrap> but he's wrong about the stats thing, you don't convince people with evidence
[09:58:48] <haegarr> you cant say its about the people and not the consumers because you're basically nullifying your statement
[09:59:05] <TheBaconFromHell> u got a twitter basedtc?
[09:59:07] <basedtc> sorry I was unclear, it's not about consumers in the sense of this is not just an economic issue
[09:59:07] <MirrorTrap> haegarr what if he considers consumers to be 1/5 of a person
[09:59:16] <@Thidran> He does.
[09:59:20] <MirrorTrap> you know, like how in the early US when determining votes...
[09:59:31] <TheBaconFromHell> what is it
[09:59:32] <stealthsuit> basedtc: take your time, I understand this can be a bit overwhelming
[09:59:56] <stealthsuit> we should probably let him answer us one at a time, folks
[09:59:59] <%fotts> It's a socioeconomic issue
[10:00:00] <@Thidran> Indeed.
[10:00:06] <TheBaconFromHell> whats his twitter?
[10:00:10] <%fotts> If we truly believe it's wrong, then we'd stop spending money
[10:00:16] <%fotts> same goes for women gamers
09[10:00:19] * Falis ([email protected]) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:00:21] <%fotts> Especially core gamers
[10:00:35] <Claud|phone> So when is the thunderfoot thing going out?
[10:00:40] <TheBaconFromHell> ill send him the video there... for when he has time.
[10:00:42] <Makarios> TheBaconFromHell, https://twitter.com/chillmage
[10:00:51] <%fotts> I don't know, it seems wrong to celebrate women, but not their sexuality, feminimity, form, or their opinion on the matter
[10:00:58] <@BenedictArnold> @CHSommers: "RT @Yohanzor: https://t.co/SAHWkuSgfL Logic 101 vs Feminist Propaganda by the one and only FACTUAL FEMINIST <3 @CHSommers" (https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/520212360305582080)
[10:00:59] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/Ee8hv
[10:01:04] <TheBaconFromHell> there you go verge dude, I sent it to your twitter
[10:01:07] <TheBaconFromHell> cya
[10:01:13] <%fotts> http://youtu.be/RXMoLCA3GQ4 this vid? TheBaconFromHell ?
[10:01:18] <TheBaconFromHell> yee
[10:01:21] <TheBaconFromHell> cuz hes busy
[10:01:22] <TheBaconFromHell> sooo
09[10:01:52] * Claud|phone ([email protected]) Quit
[10:01:56] <Moltar> basedtc so what gives you the justification for belittling the concerns of your consumers.  You can't just hide behind the claim that it's a 'societal reaction' which you have no control over and everyone is just going to have to accept it, don't shoot the messenger guys.
[10:02:06] <basedtc> it's deeply hypocritical to on the one hand demand that people (especially journalists) take video games seriously and on the other hand denounce anything that looks at them critically for what they are (often sexist, sometimes racist, etc)
03[10:02:13] * Broton ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:02:19] <Moltar> this is a very specific rhetoric being pushed with very specific ambitions and implications
[10:02:26] <%fotts> The consumer disagrees en masse
[10:02:28] <Moltar> it should be thoroughly scrutinized and properly so
[10:02:29] <@BenedictArnold> @CHSommers: "RT @KathMaryRosario: Feminist hysteria is causing the infantilization of women | http://t.co/SAhK5imQR3 http://t.co/0RmyQIZr8f" (https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/520212740640489474)
[10:02:30] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/EY4dQ
03[10:02:32] * ctr ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:02:36] <%fotts> So, there's probably a reason for that, basedtc
00[10:02:42] <DoktorSleepless> Oh shit. Based Mom is back.
[10:02:43] <Moltar> and the consumers are going to do that by themselves if the journalists make no attempt
[10:02:45] <Moltar> this is gamergate
[10:02:46] <TheBaconFromHell> yknow the saying "everyones a critic"
09[10:02:50] * OpenGL ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: Blargh)
[10:02:53] <%fotts> lol
[10:03:27] <%fotts> We already have people to replace you, but we don't want you to continue to abuse your consumer base
[10:03:38] <%fotts> We don't think you are deserving
[10:03:48] <%fotts> So there goes your clicks, and your advertisers
[10:03:49] <basedtc> that sounds pretty entitled and childish to be honest
[10:03:55] <%fotts> Not really
[10:03:57] <Moltar> lmao
[10:03:57] <Standard> Pffft.
[10:04:00] <%fotts> I'm a consumer
[10:04:04] <basedtc> so?
[10:04:05] <basedtc> everyone is
[10:04:11] <basedtc> what does that have to do with sexism in video games
[10:04:17] <%fotts> It means it is your job to adequately represent the games to us
[10:04:18] <basedtc> and criticism of it
[10:04:22] <%fotts> If you say they are sexist
[10:04:27] <%fotts> and everyone else disagrees
[10:04:32] <Standard> "You're entitled to think that a website for gamers should not hate gamers"
[10:04:34] <TheBaconFromHell> its ok to criticise games. Just not people.
[10:04:35] <basedtc> that's bullshit if you think adequate representation of video games means no cultural observation
[10:04:42] <TheBaconFromHell> the consumers.
[10:04:46] <@Thidran> Let me step in a moment.
[10:04:51] <TheBaconFromHell> go ahead
[10:04:57] <TheBaconFromHell> imma head out
09[10:04:59] * TheBaconFromHell ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: TheBaconFromHell)
[10:04:59] <%fotts> We represent ourselves, you are supposed to represent the industry, you journo
[10:05:06] <@Thidran> What he's trying to say is, that as a gaming journalist, your job-fotts.
[10:05:16] <@Thidran> Don't label, thanks.
[10:05:21] <basedtc> that is not true fotts
[10:05:27] <Moltar> basedtc so what you're saying is journalists are fully justified in pushing propaganda as long as they see it as some uncontrollable sea of change symbolic of societal evolution, and that anyone who wants that change properly examined, scrutinized, and criticized is an entitled baby?
[10:05:28] <basedtc> I am supposed to represent the truth
[10:05:31] <basedtc> as a journalist
[10:05:35] <basedtc> not any one party
[10:05:41] <@Thidran> Correct.l
[10:05:53] <%fotts> But you aren't, max temptkin, et al.
[10:05:56] <@Thidran> Would you like us to point out factually inaccurate pieces of your article?
[10:06:20] <%fotts> I was wondering when that would've become necessary, Thidran
[10:06:23] <basedtc> lol
[10:06:24] <%fotts> It was always necessary
[10:06:31] <stealthsuit> In a democracy, the wishes of the people represent the manifestation of their interests. What's happening with the fourth estate in gaming right now is an anti-democratic feeling; either journalists learn to balance their ideals with their reporting or their parent companies should hire people with opposing worldviews to make reviews and reporting. What you seem to be missing here is
[10:06:31] <stealthsuit> that the Fourth Estate is meant to be perused with varying sources for multiple viewpoints. We are seeing ONE viewpoint.
[10:06:47] <basedtc> that's not a correct view of journalism
[10:06:56] <basedtc> if you think it exists to align with your interests
[10:07:05] <Drybones> Guys, can I stream non-video game stuff on hitbox?
[10:07:10] <@Thidran> Dry: Yes.
[10:07:26] <@Thidran> based: Alright, how do you represent the truth then in your pursuit of journalism?
[10:07:29] <stealthsuit> But only if you start the stream with One Step Closer
[10:07:31] <Drybones> awesome, gonna put a live stream of my server usage and real time visitor info on it
[10:07:33] <Moltar> basedtc right, but we are alleging that YOU are the one who thinks journalism exists to align to your interests
[10:07:47] <Moltar> we are voicing our concerns as consumers
[10:07:59] <basedtc> and you are not only seeing one viewpoint, there are all kinds of viewpoints being espoused, but there's a history of Gamergate and it has a character based on the outsize response of its biggest trolls
[10:08:00] <Moltar> we don't have the same voice or power that journalists do
[10:08:21] <stealthsuit> No, basedtc, ALL stories, on EVERY game for the past 16 months at least
[10:08:23] <stealthsuit> have had the same party line
[10:08:26] <basedtc> gamers who don't want to hear criticism of games they like are mistaken in thinking they are underdogs
[10:08:29] <stealthsuit> There's no diversity of thought.
[10:08:33] <basedtc> that's hyperbole
[10:08:43] <stealthsuit> Maybe it is.
[10:08:53] <stealthsuit> But so it is to claim we're the patriarchy's children
[10:08:55] <basedtc> let me ask a question here
[10:09:04] <Moltar> go ahead
[10:09:09] <basedtc> what is the opposite of the party line you're talking about
[10:09:14] <basedtc> what is the other viewpoint
[10:09:22] <%fotts> The allegations that Hitman Absolution was about killing hookers was outright
[10:09:23] <basedtc> that no games are sexist? that the industry has no issues?
[10:09:27] <stealthsuit> No
[10:09:29] <@Thidran> No.
[10:09:30] <%fotts> GTA V is a game about killing hookers
[10:09:44] <stealthsuit> Thidran: Care to explain to him? You're more eloquent than I am at the moment
[10:09:52] <@Thidran> GImme a moment.
[10:09:56] <@Thidran> I'll pull up Escapist.
[10:10:00] <DepressionFries> basedtc, where the fuck are taking this bs that gg is about ideological agendas colluding? do you get that ones moving that narrative are the journos?
[10:10:01] <%fotts> And Saints Row
[10:10:04] <@Thidran> And give an example of an op ed I enjoyed.
[10:10:08] <@Thidran> Just a moment Fries.
[10:10:12] <DepressionFries> they do that dodge admiting their conflict of interests
03[10:10:13] * Thidran sets mode: +m
[10:10:23] <%fotts> Welp
[10:10:27] <@Thidran> I'm doing this because people are currently on edge.
[10:10:37] <%fotts> I have a life, that involves not calling everyone around me sexist
[10:10:38] <@Thidran> He is willing to engage, and you should be at least civil.
[10:10:44] <%fotts> So bye
[10:10:49] <@Thidran> Alright fotts.
[10:10:51] <@Thidran> Take it easy.
[10:11:05] <%fotts> Seriously, I've seen no harrassment among the STEM Majors
[10:11:05] <@Thidran> I'll be right back ya'll while I pull an op ed up.
[10:11:11] <%fotts> Why do they keep calling them sexist
03[10:11:16] * Thidran sets mode: +vv Moltar basedtc
[10:11:18] <@BenedictArnold> @Nero: "Opinion aside, this is just lousy writing. http://t.co/4ka8hoxj58 Sites I respect and admire are being really lazy about this. Saddening." (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/520214959440293888)
[10:11:19] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/lhdlc
[10:11:21] <+Moltar> basedtc I have no problem with ideologically driven criticism.  Whatsoever.  IMO the people who are say they want nothing to do with that are just uneducated.  My problem is with the problems of cronyism and nepotism stemming from the homogeneity of that ideology in the industry.
[10:11:23] <@Thidran> In the meantime, you two can continue.
[10:12:07] <+basedtc> Moltar I've just seen no evidence that it exists unless your problem is with companies hiring people that share similar views
[10:12:13] <@Thidran> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12314-The-Methods-of-Journalism-Have-Changed-Doing-It-Correctly-Hasn-t
[10:12:23] <%fotts> Like the Oculus Rift?
03[10:12:35] * Fast ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:12:37] <%fotts> They are starved for Employees, and no women apply ;_;7
[10:12:38] <+Moltar> basedtc this is fascinating to me that you are so insistant this problem does not exist
[10:12:39] <@Thidran> It's not a gaming piece though, but is relevant to the realities of clickbait journalism.
[10:13:00] <%fotts> They are making a new peripheral/medium for gaming
[10:13:11] <%fotts> it feels close enough liek a new console
[10:13:25] <+basedtc> I read this escapist piece, it's another old guy meeting the reality of new media :)
[10:13:26] <@BenedictArnold> @thunderf00t: "RT @RichardDawkins: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads." Quran(8:12) Out of cont…" (https://twitter.com/thunderf00t/status/520215498328653824)
[10:13:27] <@BenedictArnold> -> https://archive.today/mAPW9
[10:13:30] <@Thidran> Indeed.
[10:13:40] <@Thidran> But even if he is an old guy, it's a good viewpoint to look at.
[10:13:55] <+basedtc> sure, I just don't think it's really informative about gamergate per se
[10:14:06] <@Thidran> It is actually.
[10:14:31] <@Thidran> Because it assists in a critical issue in it: What makes good journalism? He is attempting to inform what does.
[10:14:37] <+basedtc> reviews are opinion, not news
[10:14:41] <@Thidran> It doesn't necessarily mean he is succeeding though.
[10:14:49] <@Thidran> Reviews are a mix of opinion and fact.
[10:15:07] <@Thidran> They're inherently subjective, but there are objective criteria you can deploy.
03[10:15:20] * garrod ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:15:22] <@Thidran> (It's a fine balance though.)
[10:15:36] <+Moltar> basedtc I suppose we should ask, even though we've become so used to ignoring the insults, what's with your fetishization of the image of gamers as entitled, privileged, misogynist, white, male, straight, cis, manbaby sociopaths?
[10:15:48] <@Thidran> Moltar: Remember...
[10:15:56] <@Thidran> These folk regularly are stuck seeing trolls day in and day out.
[10:15:56] <+basedtc> sure, but mostly what I'm hearing from GG supporters is that they want "objective" reviews based on only facts (read: no cultural/political analysis)
[10:16:13] <@Thidran> He doesn't usually get to meet even the informed folk, let alone the average joe.
[10:16:48] <@Thidran> In reviews? No, I don't want excessive cultural/political analysis.
[10:16:53] <@Thidran> Those are better served in Op Eds.
[10:16:56] <+Moltar> basedtc that's an idiotic viewpoint and is rightly ridiculed, imo
[10:16:56] <+basedtc> moltar I don't remotely think that represents all gamers, but privileged white men drove mass consumer adoption of video games and video game content reflects their preferences still, even if the makeup of video game consumers looks radically different
09[10:17:02] * Synthovine ([email protected]) Quit
03[10:17:06] * Synthovine ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:17:19] <+basedtc> I'm one of them
03[10:17:29] * Tile121 ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:17:31] <@Thidran> Gimme a moment based.
[10:17:41] <+Moltar> from a purely economic standpoint
[10:17:52] <@Thidran> Oliver Campbell was kind enough to demonstrate an example style on how you can do a review.
[10:17:53] <@Thidran> https://medium.com/@oliverbcampbell/the-purpose-of-a-game-review-and-how-to-write-one-with-minimal-subjectivity-c8fb78d3266
[10:18:17] <+basedtc> so I think there's room for both thidran
[10:18:30] <+basedtc> there are a lot of people who just want what is basically industry hype in news and reviews
[10:18:35] <@Thidran> Indeed.
[10:18:38] <+basedtc> they want to get GameInformer and see the inside scoop on stuff
[10:18:43] <+basedtc> from the mouth of the companies they like
[10:18:44] <+basedtc> I get that
[10:18:54] <@Thidran> I'm a subscriber myself(Although I get it for the discounts than the mag.)
[10:18:54] <+basedtc> I don't think anybody is saying there's no *market* for that
[10:18:57] <+Moltar> from a purely economic standpoint, don't you think you're compromising the duty of journalists to their readers in pushing ideological change within a free market.  What if you're wrong about that change being the right change, for example?
[10:19:23] <+Moltar> you have incredible power to enforce that change after all
[10:19:34] <+basedtc> that's a weird idea moltar, I don't really get it. are you saying it's our job to agree with however people spend money?
[10:19:45] <+Moltar> no
[10:20:15] <+Moltar> all I'm saying is, I don't think you've properly considered the possibility that you might be wrong in using your power to push your rhetoric
03[10:20:30] * BrownElfTrapMaid ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
[10:20:45] <+Moltar> because if you are wrong, then you've grossly compromised your obligation to act in the interests of your readers and in the interests of furthering truth
[10:20:46] <@Thidran> If words aren't carefully placed, they can cause great damage.
[10:20:59] <@Thidran> (See: Gamers are dead articles as an example.)
[10:21:09] <@Thidran> Yes, I read through several of them.
[10:21:18] <+Moltar> you have immense power, in one of the most valuable industries in the world
[10:21:25] <+basedtc> I have no obligation to act in the economic interest of my readers
[10:21:26] <+Moltar> consumers are saying en masse that you're abusing that power
[10:21:32] <+basedtc> that would actually be a form of corruption
[10:21:35] <+Moltar> and yet you dismiss their concerns as nothing at all
[10:21:35] <+basedtc> if I did that
[10:21:44] <+Moltar> you don't even think there could be a danger to your actions?
[10:21:54] <+basedtc> what is the danger? that games become more egalitarian?
[10:22:04] <@Thidran> based: They already are becoming more egalitarian.
[10:22:21] <@Thidran> In fact, I've been supporting said games by putting my money where my mouth is.
[10:22:37] <@Thidran> And not buying games I lack interest in.
[10:22:39] <+Moltar> the danger is that whatever idealization of the change you think you're pushing for might not end up being in the best interests of your consumers
[10:22:48] <+Moltar> and a lot of your consumers seem to think that is the case
[10:22:56] <+basedtc> sorry folks -- I really appreciate the conversation we had this morning but I have to get back to my duties, news cycle is calling me
[10:23:01] <@Thidran> Sure thing.
[10:23:04] <@Thidran> Appreciate your time.
[10:23:10] <@Thidran> Welcome to come back whenever.
[10:23:10] <+Moltar> ^ thanks for talking to us
[10:23:16] <+basedtc> cheers
03[10:23:36] * Theorevery ([email protected]) has joined #burgersandfries
09[10:23:49] * +basedtc ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
[10:23:52] <+Moltar> well that was surprisingly positive and productive