ItzViper482: Name me a few sun counters that arent munchlax
 Plasmagby: got chespin, vulpix-a, hippo
 ItzViper482: ok
 ItzViper482: Chespin may beat non zmove teams of sun (which arent very common now with double chrolo) but it also loses to vulpix
 ItzViper482: Vulpix-a has a hard time switching into bulbasaurs hp fire and both of the sweepers sludges and ofc vulpix can out weather it
 ItzViper482: 196+ SpA Bellsprout Sludge Bomb vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Vulpix-Alola: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 ItzViper482: as seen there
 Plasmagby: true. You have to scout for z-moves and again I'll say vulpix itself is ridiculous itself
 ItzViper482: and hippo loses to bulbasaur as well
 ItzViper482: because bulba uses giga drain now
 ItzViper482: and can set up on sun teams
 Plasmagby: that it does
 Plasmagby: bar lax there aren't any real counters now
 Plasmagby: as sun has evolved more as people have found answers
 ItzViper482: do you feel like this has made sun broken?
 ItzViper482: and do you feel like being forced to run 2 sun checks to beat sun is overcentralizing?
 Plasmagby: has it made sun broken. I'm not sure. I'm about 65-35 on sun being broken for the tier rn. There are soft answers but if the sun player plays well and has proper support I feel they should win the majority of the time
 Plasmagby: I do feel it is overcentralizing.
 ItzViper482: can u elaborate more on the overcentralizing bit?
 Plasmagby: let's take lax for example. the best sun answer by far. The only sun counter rn bar hippo and hoping no gigas
 Plasmagby: if they don't bring sun and you prep your team for sun and they bring let's say fight spam for example. another very popular playstyle rn and a very solid one
 Plasmagby: lax is in my opinion a nuisance in that game due to it being pressured and forcing the team to take big hits whether from timb, scarf HJK's from foo, letting scrag DD up or croagunk plot up
 Plasmagby: lax bar sun is just bad in viability rn
 Plasmagby: sure it checks most of the tier specially but for example +2 236+ SpA Vullaby Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 10-13 (33.3 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 Plasmagby: assuming it has not been knocked already or taken rocks, etc you need to rely on sleep talk rolls
 Plasmagby: which still flinches are things
 Plasmagby: juice is not a great sun answer due to sleep powder and poisnium sprout does 60% min
 ItzViper482: ok u have anything more to say?
 Plasmagby: overall. feel like sun is little absurd
 Plasmagby: I do have reqs but unsure how I'm voting. again leaning towards ban due to the fact of "answers" not really existing imo due to calcs you've been showing and scenarios ofc [: