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Charizard knockdown

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Jul 29th, 2016
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  1. Note:
  2. This list assumes perfect timing when hitting each attack meaty, otherwise the aerials can also get beaten out by every character's 8Y in addition.
  3. ? - needs testing
  4. * - needs confirmation
  5.  
  6. Optimal followups
  7. On hit:
  8. jX - 2X, 8A
  9. jA - none
  10. jY - 2X, 8A
  11. 5Y - j6YY, 2X, 8A
  12.  
  13. On block:
  14. jX - 5Y
  15. jA - none
  16. jY - 2Y
  17. 5Y - j6Y
  18.  
  19. On counter:
  20. jX (pierce) - 2X, 8A
  21. jA - none
  22. jY - jA
  23. 5Y - jA
  24.  
  25. Ultra safe (3)
  26. Can pressure with any option on wakeup
  27.  
  28. Charizard
  29. jY - none
  30. 5Y - none
  31. jA - none
  32. jX - none
  33.  
  34. Machamp
  35. jY - none
  36. 5Y - none
  37. jA - none
  38. jX - none
  39.  
  40. Gardevoir
  41. jY - none
  42. 5Y - none
  43. jA - none
  44. jX - none
  45.  
  46. Safe (4)
  47. Can pressure safely with at least one option that's not jX
  48.  
  49. Blaziken
  50. jY - none
  51. 5Y - none
  52. jA - [X+A]/8A
  53. jX - none
  54. - Doing jA too early risks getting caught by the end of Blaziken's X+A and doing it too late allows 8A to beat it, so it's best to use a different option.
  55.  
  56. Weavile
  57. jY - 2X
  58. 5Y - none
  59. jA - 2X
  60. jX - 2X
  61. - Yes Weavile's WAAAH does beat all of Charizard's aerials. Doesn't make a lick of sense but that's how it is. 5Y gets around it.
  62.  
  63. Garchomp
  64. jY - 4A?
  65. 5Y - 4A?
  66. jA - none
  67. jX - none
  68. - 4A no longer starts frame 1 in patch 1.3 so now it loses to meaty aerials.
  69.  
  70. Mewtwo
  71. jY - 8A?
  72. 5Y - 8A?
  73. jA - none
  74. jX - none
  75. - 4AA no longer starts frame 1 in patch 1.3 so now it loses to meaty aerials. Charizard can power through Mewtwo's 8A with jA.
  76.  
  77. Risky (5)
  78. Requires a correct call on a 50-50 between normal and grab
  79.  
  80. Sceptile
  81. jY - 6A
  82. 5Y - 6A
  83. jA - 4A
  84. jX - none
  85. - Unlike the other characters in this group, Sceptile's counters can be beaten by normals if you guess correctly. jY beats Sceptile's 4A and jA beats Leaf Storm.
  86.  
  87. Pikachu
  88. jY - 8A
  89. 5Y - 8A
  90. jA - 8A
  91. jX - none
  92.  
  93. Pikachu Libre
  94. jY - 2A
  95. 5Y - 2A*
  96. jA - 2A
  97. jX - none
  98. - Charizard's aerials can sometimes trade with 2A but it's unreliable.
  99.  
  100. Lucario
  101. jY - 8A
  102. 5Y - 8A
  103. jA - 8A
  104. jX - none
  105.  
  106. Suicune
  107. jY - X+AY
  108. 5Y - X+AY
  109. jA - X+AY
  110. jX - 8A
  111. - Aurora Beam is frame 1 air-invincible so it makes jX whiff. Counter attack (DP version) beats all of Charizard's normals.
  112.  
  113. Support dependent (1)
  114. Has a support online so frequently that it's rare to actually get to challenge it if they run a disrupt support
  115. Braixen
  116. jY - none
  117. 5Y - none
  118. jA - none
  119. jX - none
  120. - Braixen can escape with 4X if Charizard's timing isn't flawless.
  121.  
  122. Unsafe (3)
  123. Beats both normal and grab with the same option
  124.  
  125. Shadow Mewtwo
  126. jY - 8A*, 5AB
  127. 5Y - 8A*, 5AB
  128. jA - 8A, 5AB
  129. jX - 5AB
  130. - Teleport is frame 1 invincible which gets it out of everything on wakeup. If that wasn't enough, its 8A overpowers Charizard's jA, unlike Mewtwo's.
  131.  
  132. Gengar
  133. jY - 8Y, backdash
  134. 5Y - backdash
  135. jA - 8Y, backdash
  136. jX - 8Y, backdash
  137. - Gengar's backdash is frame 1 invincible and its 8Y is frame 1 air-invincible. Charizard cannot do anything to Gengar on wakeup reliably.
  138.  
  139. Chandelure
  140. jY - 8Y, 8A, backdash
  141. 5Y - backdash
  142. jA - 8Y, backdash
  143. jX - 8Y, backdash
  144. - Charizard's jA damages Chandelure through its 8A and then backs off just in time for it to debuff itself. It's hilarious to watch vs scrub Chandelures. Unfortunately the good Chandelures know that its 8Y and backdash have the same invincibility as Gengar's, so Charizard also cannot challenge Chandelure on wakeup.
  145.  
  146. Summary:
  147. - 7/16 characters can be oki'd freely on wakeup: Charizard, Machamp, Gardevoir, Blaziken, Garchomp, Mewtwo, Weavile
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