IRC Aug. 1, 2015

4:26:27 PM	 (Connected)
4:26:28 PM	 (You joined the channel)
4:26:28 PM	 The topic is: http://hektor-heresy.forumotion.co.uk/t12-wine-and-cheese-with-papa-lumey.
4:26:28 PM	 Topic set by Froggy on Sat Aug 01 2015 14:47:45 GMT-0700 (US Mountain Standard Time).
4:26:38 PM	Froggy  Hi Brennus.
4:26:42 PM	Brennus  Howdy!
4:26:52 PM	JaegerWolf  Sorry, I was having a brief discussion about future career options on a drill rig. How's it going Brennus?
4:27:12 PM	Aubrey  Good idea.
4:27:17 PM	Brennus  Nice big crowd here. Pretty good today, I am baking muffins and not working overtime.
4:27:21 PM	Aubrey  Brainstorming is my jam doe
4:27:33 PM	Brennus  How's everybody today?
4:27:40 PM	Froggy  We're just pausing to consider a dry proposal about the future of these meet-ups.  I suggested that someone should take responsibility for writing something up from the brainstorming, otherwise we're just spinning our wheels.
4:27:47 PM	Alexandri  I'm in favor of it Lumey.
4:27:53 PM	Alexandri  Uriel already agreed to getting organization.
4:28:13 PM	Brennus  That sounds like a smart plan, I approve
4:28:15 PM	Alexandri  Thinking of people being in charge of different sections with a whip on those people in charge of different sections.
4:28:21 PM	Alexandri  But never gained steam.
4:28:33 PM	Alexandri  Assignments sounds better.
4:28:39 PM	Alexandri  Gives people a goal, a progress to grow.
4:29:04 PM	Brennus  Setting goals can definitely motivate people, no question there
4:29:10 PM	Froggy  OK, then.  How about Alex gets the assignment for writing up the birth of the Not-Black Legion?
4:29:24 PM	Froggy  I think he has the best handle on it anyway.
4:29:49 PM	Uriel  ah I have to go to sleep. Early start tomorrow. Will the results of this chat be posted in the forum?
4:29:53 PM	Brennus  I'm in favor if Alex is
4:30:14 PM	Froggy  OK, Uriel.  I'll make sure to post the highlights.
Brennus  NIght Uriel, have a good one!
4:31:11 PM	Arelex  seems ok to me
4:31:19 PM	Uriel  thanks. I loosened permissions on the Announcements page. If there are any other suggestions/observations on the forum, let me know and i'll sort it out soon as I can. Anyway, night guys
4:33:04 PM	Froggy  Alexandri?  I'm pretty sure that nobody else objects to you writing this thing, but if you can't do it that's a moot point.
4:34:59 PM	 Uriel has quit: Ping timeout.
4:36:05 PM	Brennus  Maybe he had to step away.
4:36:30 PM	Froggy  I'm guessing so.
4:38:00 PM	Brennus  Well, we still have a boatload to do, so perhaps we can talk about some other area of development
4:39:27 PM	Aubrey  Also in terms of the subject beforehand.
4:39:31 PM	Froggy  Just to recap, then.  We seem to be thinking that:
4:39:32 PM	Froggy  1.  The first post-Heresy Chaos Incursion is inspired/led by Aubrey the Grey only a few centuries after the death of Hektor.  It ends in the death of Aubrey and Brennus, and soon after the remaining Loyalist Primarch(s?) disappear.
4:39:34 PM	Froggy  2.  The Traitor Legions splinter for a period before establishing some kind of core organisation (Alex suggests the Primordial Brotherhood as a sort of Chaos Deathwatch).  Uriel suggested that the Sacred Band attempt to stitch up a leadership that collapses prior to the formation of the Primordial Brotherhood.
4:39:57 PM	Alexandri  No no
4:39:58 PM	Alexandri  They take notes from Deathwatch but they're like
4:40:03 PM	Alexandri  Black Legion had a baby with Deathwatch.
4:40:37 PM	Aubrey  aye sounds good.
4:40:57 PM	Brennus  That sounds pretty interesting. So there's more of a council of leaders than just one tyrant
4:41:00 PM	Brennus  ?
4:41:32 PM	Alexandri  Yes but then one of them is able to become Tyrant and then leads a Black Crusade.
4:41:34 PM	Alexandri  "The Crimson Horde"(Dark Red, Light Red, Gold), "The Golden Host"(Gold, White, and Red), "The Transhuman Cohort"(Blue, Dark Blue, White).
4:41:44 PM	Brennus  First Chaos incursion sounds good. I have a few ideas about that.
4:41:46 PM	Alexandri  These were my original ideas.
4:41:52 PM	Froggy  OK.  I guess it's a thing that needs to be written out to be properly understood, but that's fine.  Alexandri, now that you're back, I was asking if you were OK taking the first assignment and making it the birth of the Primordial Brotherhood?
4:41:52 PM	Brennus  Oh ho, I see. Yes, that's good
4:41:54 PM	Alexandri  Transhuman Cohort is basically proto-PB.
4:41:56 PM	Aubrey  brb
4:42:04 PM	Alexandri  Yes.
4:42:09 PM	Froggy  Cool.
4:42:35 PM	Froggy  Umm... I have nicked the name "Transhuman Cohort" for the warband that gathers around Pallas Eugenesis.
4:44:11 PM	Froggy  (And I thought that was appreciated! :) )
4:44:35 PM	Alexandri  It was.
4:44:39 PM	Brennus  I thought that's who he meant, and that they were involved with this leadership council thing
4:44:40 PM	Alexandri  I'm just citing origins here.
4:44:44 PM	Alexandri  https://archive.moe/tg/thread/34916605/#34918654
4:44:48 PM	Alexandri  My idea for the Transhuman Cohort
4:44:52 PM	Alexandri  Became my idea for the PB
4:44:54 PM	Alexandri  It was a name change.
4:44:58 PM	Alexandri  Wait no
4:45:00 PM	Froggy  Right, right.  OK.
4:45:02 PM	Alexandri  I'm remembering my own ideas wrong
4:45:13 PM	Alexandri  The Crimson Horde is proto-PB
4:45:14 PM	Alexandri  I'm a dumb.
4:45:26 PM	Alexandri  Transhuman had totally different themes on Astartes supremacy over regular man.
4:45:52 PM	Froggy  So I guess the missing bit is what happens after Aubrey's Crusade.
4:46:55 PM	Brennus  Well, Aubrey is supposed to be the kind of new figurehead, from what he's told me, so his death might lead to an unusually long period of relative peace
4:47:41 PM	Froggy  For the Imperium?  Kinda, they have other stuff to deal with (The Beast, Vetrovnak, maybe other threats).
4:47:59 PM	JaegerWolf  http://hektor-heresy.forumotion.co.uk/t16-primordial-brotherhood#71
4:48:32 PM	Brennus  I sort of forgot about them fellas. But those forces, powerful as they are, don't seem to cause quite the havok that chaos does
4:49:42 PM	Froggy  Also the Harakians and Cult of Krenz, though they're smaller time troublemakers.
4:50:05 PM	Froggy  But yeah, Chaos will need to get its shit together after the death of Aubrey.
4:51:45 PM	Brennus  If they can't really present a united front for a few centuries, the Imperium is going to grow complacent about their threat, so that leaves the gate wide open for some warlord to make a big push
4:51:47 PM	Arelex  So, am I correct in thinking that Aubrey's death is kind of like Chaos's watershed moment when they realize "Hektor failed, Aubrey failed, we have to change the way we do things from here on"?
4:51:57 PM	Brennus  I would say so, yes, Lex
4:52:11 PM	Arelex  And then some of them split off to go FULLCHAOS.exe, and some try to reform into a Black Legion kind of deal?
4:52:14 PM	Froggy  Yeah, that's the way we seem to be heading.
4:52:23 PM	Arelex  mmk
4:52:59 PM	Brennus  I think the traitors should mostly have the sort of "the Primarchs failed so they are not much use" attitude
4:53:17 PM	Brennus  Except for the ones with daemon Primarchs, who are probably fanatics
4:53:23 PM	Arelex  So, Pre-Aubrey could be thought of as one "era" for the Traitors, and Post-Aubrey could be thought of as another "era"? That might be a good peg to mark the timeline on, and the shifts in how Chaos Marines view themselves.
4:53:45 PM	Arelex  Since that will come with broad changes in "are we still a Legion?" "Do we obey the Primarchs?" "If not them, then who do we follow?"
4:53:57 PM	Arelex  The Imperium has its own reformations, maybe Chaos does too, for a while.
4:54:08 PM	Arelex  Before the Heresy is a distant memory.
4:55:30 PM	Arelex  (before they're all too insane to think about things in a half-linear manner) :P
4:55:31 PM	Brennus  The Primordial Brotherhood would be great as a sort of self-elected ruling council; since we decided that was how Hektor's rebellion started, it would make sense for the marines to form something similar when they became independent.
4:55:35 PM	Froggy  I think the long-run view on Chaos is that the Primordial Brotherhood is a partial success - they get a decent core together and have good relations with some of the other warbands, but can't unify the full might of the Traitors behind them.  Elenkor's arrival on the scene is the harbinger of a united Chaos threat remerging in the End Times.
4:56:05 PM	Arelex  It feels like the Primordial Brotherhood is kind of like the Weimar Republic. Something that only barely works, for a short time, and is swept away eventually by a dynamic leader and his "warband".
4:56:31 PM	Arelex  Something that is a significant event, but ultimately fails because it's still too much of the mentality of the original Legions, not something that accepts the fluidity of Chaos.
4:56:32 PM	Froggy  Well, it's around from M31 until M37.
4:56:38 PM	Arelex  A transitory thing, maybe.
4:56:44 PM	Arelex  hmm. That's quite a while.
4:56:50 PM	Brennus  That seems long
4:57:14 PM	Froggy  The original verse has His Armlessness in charge for even longer.
4:57:44 PM	Arelex  true. Are we wanting to do it that way?
4:57:56 PM	Brennus  Yes, it does, but sometimes it seems forced
4:58:28 PM	Arelex  I'm just saying, the themes of transition here seem stronger than the themes of permanency. It feels like this Primordial Brotherhood could be a cool intermediate step, showing how the Traitors evolve from Loyalists to the Chaos of the "modern era".
4:58:39 PM	Arelex  That was the impression I got, is all.
4:59:03 PM	Froggy  But storyline-wise, I think the Primordial Brotherhood is there to scrap with the Imperium and seem a bit threatening but also lose.  The BIG THREAT side of Zeke gets farmed off to a new kid, who doesn't have to get beated by the Imperials for thousands of years before gathering his hordes to storm Terra.
4:59:33 PM	Froggy  Because basically, Chaos has to be failing for thousands of years.
4:59:45 PM	Froggy  But also seem like a credible threat in M41.
5:00:49 PM	Froggy  So if we bring Elenkor on the scene too early, he either does nothing ("plots and waits until the time is right" - whatever) or gets beaten.
5:00:51 PM	Brennus  Well, a council of differing chaos leaders would lead to a plethora of weaker warriors leading crusades that are doomed to failure
5:01:18 PM	Arelex  "Intermediate" could still span centuries, or maybe even a millennia, after all. I'm just not sure it should endure for 6,000 years.
5:01:30 PM	Brennus  It helps if the actual makeup of the Brotherhood changes fairly frequently
5:01:55 PM	Froggy  Yeah, if they run through some different leaders it might make the thing seem more credible.
5:02:20 PM	Brennus  They all adhere to the conventions (to a lessening degree as the millenia fall away) until Elenkor sweeps it all away
5:03:50 PM	Arelex  Lol, go with a "dying empire" feel. Seems decent, since Chaos isn't known for its ability to keep things together and intact over time. Play to the theme.
5:04:14 PM	Arelex  "Doomed from the start" might even be a good theme to use. "The fate of those who defy their nature"
5:04:24 PM	Arelex  "The price of Chaos".
5:04:29 PM	Brennus  That sounds cool, I like it
5:04:39 PM	JaegerWolf  Thoughts?
5:04:40 PM	JaegerWolf  http://hektor-heresy.forumotion.co.uk/t17-the-iron-rangers#73
5:04:43 PM	Froggy  Alexandri, does that work with your plans?
5:06:38 PM	Brennus  I think that fits the IR quite well Merrill. Big flashy ceremonies would not work with their aesthetic.
5:09:45 PM	Froggy  Just thinking out loud - if we don't want to make the Primordial Brotherhood total failsauce, they could be kickass warriors but lack credibility as the leaders of Chaos.  Then they could play an important role in the "Bellum Ultima" as Elenkor's shock troops.
5:11:23 PM	Arelex  Weren't they led by Aubrey?
5:11:28 PM	Arelex  And/or some Chaos high rankers?
5:11:35 PM	Arelex  They had legitimacy, IIRC.
5:11:59 PM	Aubrey  Aubrey was a sort of pope/vatican
5:12:27 PM	Aubrey  Who just spoke the word of god and blessed certain people with leadership.
5:12:50 PM	Arelex  ah
5:13:09 PM	Arelex  Well, I don't think succumbing to the weight of history/Chaos is "failsauce".
5:13:24 PM	JaegerWolf  And from how I can picture this as is, these guys seem to be a bit forward thinking, which does not mix well with zealotry.
5:13:34 PM	Arelex  It's more of a way to show how dominating Chaos is over its pawns, I would say.
5:13:49 PM	Arelex  The struggle is real, but eventually the current will drag you under.
5:14:04 PM	Arelex  And then you avoid pulling Chaos' fangs.
5:14:12 PM	Arelex  By showing how the Gods hammer mortals under.
5:14:27 PM	Arelex  Spin it as a triumph of the Gods, not a failure of mortals.
5:14:59 PM	Brennus  Like, Chaos grinding itself down only to totally renew its power and make an unseen strike?
5:15:47 PM	Arelex  Sort of. Also like Chaos forever renewing itself with the blood of the old guard.
5:15:54 PM	Arelex  Aside from maybe Nurgle's adherents.
5:16:05 PM	Arelex  They might provide some "unchanging" continuity, of sorts.
5:16:50 PM	Arelex  But yeah, that's why I saw this Brotherhood as a transitory entity, bridging the evolution from "Heresy Veterans" to "Modern Chaos Marines".
5:17:14 PM	Froggy  I get where you're going but in pro-wrestling what you're describing is a jobber with an interesting gimmick.  (If that's too jargon-laded: They lose all the time but are kinda entertaining.  Fans regularly mock Black Legion for being jobbers - although they also get mocked for being bland.
5:18:00 PM	Arelex  Well, maybe. I feel like it would stand up to scrutiny just because it's a very Chaotic idea, at least.
5:18:12 PM	Arelex  There are victories aplenty, but the STRUCTURE cannot hold.
5:18:31 PM	Arelex  Eventually, it simply falls apart like Legos, and like Legos are reassembled by the next Warlord to take the reins.
5:18:34 PM	Arelex  Or some such.
5:18:40 PM	Aubrey  brb
5:20:05 PM	Froggy  If you go back to the source material, the idea of Chaos as constant change isn't really correct.  Moorcock describes the victory of Chaos as meaning only stagnation, while it's Order that can actually develop.
5:20:05 PM	Brennus  So even though the actual content of the Brotherhood would change, as well as methods and many other things, the conceit would remain throughout the whole time that they were some kind of tradition stretching back to the time of the Heresy
5:20:28 PM	Froggy  And I think the OU inherits that conception with the Traitors still being led by guys from the Heresy.
5:20:36 PM	Brennus  If I remember he describes worlds where Order and Chaos rule entirely as very similar
5:21:38 PM	Froggy  Well, Elric thought that Chaos would mean stagnation and has really positive thoughts about the prospect of a world more dominated by Order. :)
5:21:42 PM	 Aubrey has quit: Ping timeout.
5:22:08 PM	Arelex  Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking, brennus. The dream of a vast Legion again, juxtaposed over Chaos' degradation of such a thing.
5:22:19 PM	Arelex  A little like people claiming to be the Heirs of Rome, maybe
5:22:38 PM	Arelex  From the Eastern Empire, to the Holy Roman Empire, to the Ottoman Empire, all the way down to places like Romania.
5:23:04 PM	JaegerWolf  Okay, now I'm lost again. Are we still talking about the PB?
5:23:04 PM	Arelex  With the legitimacy of such a thing getting thinner and thinner, held up only by the strength of the Warlord, not any real historical claim.
5:23:09 PM	JaegerWolf  Chaos as a whole?
5:23:12 PM	JaegerWolf  What?
5:23:12 PM	Brennus  You can hardly blame him given his particular experiences with Chaos. That's why you should always kill jealous cousins. Yeah, I think that would work pretty well Lex
5:23:28 PM	Froggy  Still on PB, with the question of how long they rule and in what way.
5:23:42 PM	Froggy  Although with Alex seemingly AFK this may not be the most productive discussion.
5:24:23 PM	JaegerWolf  Okay, maybe this discussion should be recorded for the forum?
5:24:33 PM	JaegerWolf  I even built a discussion bor specifically for this.
5:24:58 PM	Froggy  It should be getting logged.
5:25:02 PM	Brennus  At least we'll have plenty of ideas to bounce off him. I've been copying it out JaegerWolf.
5:25:12 PM	Arelex  idk how IRC works, so do what you think is best.
5:25:24 PM	Froggy  OK, cool, so long as someone is logging it.
5:25:25 PM	JaegerWolf  Excellent.
5:25:26 PM	Brennus  I'm just copying and pasting into notepad
5:25:36 PM	Brennus  It works pretty well
5:26:12 PM	Alexandri  Sorry everyone
5:26:14 PM	Alexandri  I was away
5:26:19 PM	Alexandri  Had to pick up food.
5:26:21 PM	Brennus  S'all good
5:26:33 PM	Alexandri  What I miss?
5:26:43 PM	Alexandri  I'm imagining the PB rule for quite some time
5:26:52 PM	Alexandri  And their rule marks the end of the Legionary Wars.
5:27:08 PM	Brennus  Yes, until M37 is the current length of time
5:27:08 PM	Froggy  Lots of discussion about PB.  Did your IRC client pick up the discussion while you were away?
5:27:41 PM	Froggy  Well, M31-M37 was plucked out of the air, but something like that.
5:29:04 PM	Alexandri  Should I read all of it or can I get a summary?
5:29:06 PM	Alexandri  Just want to know
5:29:08 PM	Alexandri  Eating
5:29:56 PM	Froggy  Probably best to skim it over, there might be ideas that kick off something for you in there.
5:37:39 PM	Froggy  While we wait for Alex, is there anything recent that we want to review?  I'm not too sure what has been written in my absence (a lot of Green Man stuff with continuity issues?) but without the writer here I'm not sure it's worth going over.  If people haven't looked at the Komra, or have ideas on developing them, we could talk Dorf.
5:38:11 PM	Arelex  Sure. Remind me again where they wound up living? Are they still the Squats in the Core, or what?
5:38:41 PM	JaegerWolf  I have largely hit a creative road block, followed by more life road blocks.
5:38:51 PM	Froggy  Their homeworlds are in the Core, but only two of their old worlds survive to the Heresy.
5:39:04 PM	Alexandri  Seeing ARelex ideas.
5:39:37 PM	Arelex  Are they hostile to the Imperium? And did they wind up allied to that Tau coalition or whatever it was?
5:39:46 PM	Froggy  I wanted the Komra somewhat dispersed so that a theoretical cross-over campaign with all factions wouldn't have to stay in one area.
5:41:07 PM	Arelex  Mmk. Well, if they're in the Core, then that sounds like a thing that the War Scribes would confront at some point, if they're hostile abhumans.
5:41:18 PM	Arelex  Is that correct?
5:41:22 PM	Froggy  They get conquered shortly before the Heresy.  The Cult of Krenz are hostile to the Imperium but probably have an understanding with the Dark Eldar.  Chelob Hold and her colonies are quasi-Imperial.
5:41:40 PM	Brennus  They sound like client states
5:41:47 PM	Froggy  Komra aren't exactly hostile.  They're actually quite reasonable.
5:42:16 PM	Arelex  Mmk. Well, what else needs to be written for the Komra, then?
5:42:17 PM	Froggy  Yeah, they have a lot of experience in being clients of a larger Empire.
5:42:42 PM	Froggy  I'm not sure why you're asking me. :-/
5:43:06 PM	JaegerWolf  Still would have preferred traditional Space Dwarves...
5:43:48 PM	JaegerWolf  Although if they're spread out as you describe, I'm sure there's some area where they could be...
5:43:55 PM	Froggy  Merrill, what bits of the traditional image are the biggest losses for you?
5:44:03 PM	Alexandri  Okay.
5:44:11 PM	Alexandri  So people are seeing the PB as a transitionary period?
5:44:28 PM	Alexandri  I was thinking of having them more prominent. A formation that starts off strong then begins to fall off.
5:44:31 PM	JaegerWolf  I just really enjoy the traditional Tolkeinian Dwarf...
5:44:39 PM	Alexandri  I got it.
5:44:43 PM	Alexandri  Seljuks
5:45:00 PM	Alexandri  Are a good example. A massive empire that fell in later years and gave rise to Osman.
5:45:25 PM	JaegerWolf  Sounds good.
5:45:28 PM	Froggy  Back to Tolkein?  That would mean kicking a lot of Warhammer stuff, too. :-/
5:46:22 PM	JaegerWolf  I mean the Warhammer version, of course. The drunken, ass-kicking, grudge-bearing, 4-foot assholes.
5:46:47 PM	JaegerWolf  Full Tolkein is more a thinly-veiled Jewish stereotype.
5:48:06 PM	Arelex  So, why exactly do we want the Komra to be straight Dorfy?
5:48:15 PM	Arelex  Just because the idea originates from Squats?
5:48:31 PM	Froggy  Right.  Well, I did include red-haired slayers and thinly-disguised Chaos Dwarves.  The grudge match thing is much harder in 40k's scale, but they do have generational wars with the Orks and definitely have heat with the Imperium.
5:48:33 PM	Brennus  Yeah, I think this example works Alex
5:49:22 PM	JaegerWolf  I'm just stating that bit. I recognize Lumey's creation, and I'm not arguing it, just stating my preference that it would have stayed pretty much the same as the Squats.
5:50:03 PM	Froggy  Err, hold on.  Do you want them to be pretty much the Squats, or pretty much WHFB Dwarves In Space?
5:50:23 PM	Froggy  Because the Squats really aren't much like their FB counterparts.
5:50:28 PM	JaegerWolf  I don't have the juice, ability, and am certainly not going to try and force it on anything. The group likes them, and that's fine by me. I'm just opinionated.
5:50:31 PM	Alexandri  Why is anyone complaining about the Komra? They're perfectly fine.
5:50:42 PM	JaegerWolf  And in that case I am grossly misinformed, then.
5:51:05 PM	Froggy  Ease off there, Alex.  I just wanted to know what Merrill felt was missing.
5:51:06 PM	Brennus  Do Cult of Krenz psykers eventually turn to mechanical bits, or solid metal?
5:51:29 PM	JaegerWolf  And I just bitch about things in general.
5:51:59 PM	Froggy  Brennus, I think I wanted them to be petrified (turning into Krenz stone).
5:52:27 PM	JaegerWolf  I officially take back some of my misgivings.
5:52:55 PM	Froggy  I would rather people keep their misgivings on the table, it's helpful to know what doesn't work.
5:54:38 PM	Froggy  All I want to do is get to grips with what you're missing.  "Would prefer Squats" isn't that helpful unless you're saying that EVERYTHING about the Squats is better (including their name?).
5:54:38 PM	Alexandri  Go ahead. I thought you were telling him how to change it Merril.
5:54:42 PM	Alexandri  Then you posted the other thing.
5:56:17 PM	 Golgothos has quit: Ping timeout.
5:59:04 PM	Brennus  They're pretty cool, I don't think I'd seen the Cult before.
5:59:21 PM	JaegerWolf  No, my apologies if it came across that way, I was just vocalizing my own personal preferences.
6:00:32 PM	 Aubrey joined the channel.
6:00:44 PM	Froggy  It didn't come across like that and I'm not annoyed.  I just wanted to get something more specific from you.  At the moment, it just comes across as a complaint - I can't do much with that feedback, can I?
6:00:44 PM	Aubrey  Ok I'm back
6:00:59 PM	Brennus  Hello Snakeman
6:01:14 PM	Froggy  Welcome back.  We have been discussing Komra briefly, although that was because Alex was catching up on the PB discussion and he seems to be caught up now.
6:01:31 PM	Froggy  So, thoughts on Spess Dorfs or back to the Weimar Traitors.
6:01:45 PM	Aubrey  That's Lord Snake Man to you loyalist. Spess Dorfs are always fun.
6:01:57 PM	Aubrey  It's a way of re-introducing runes other than brennus
6:02:20 PM	Aubrey  It's my belief that using runes is like sealing magic.
6:02:24 PM	Froggy  Hmm.  I don't currently have them doing a rune thing.  Is that a big omission?
6:02:34 PM	Brennus  It doesn't have to be runes
6:03:02 PM	Aubrey  Dorfs have always kinda known for not being magical/magic resistant.
6:03:17 PM	Aubrey  I think that the dorfs should be semi-blank, if you catch my drift.
6:03:23 PM	Brennus  The Thunder Kings have kind of evolved to use notOgham script, maybe the Komra can have hieroglyphs or something
6:03:57 PM	Froggy  Yeah, I've given them that by having them quite resistant to the touch of Chaos and with fairly limited psykers.
6:04:10 PM	Froggy  (They are human, so they have the psyker gene in the bank.)
6:04:33 PM	Aubrey  Yeah, I always believed that dorfs can't really use magic, so they kinda seal it in runes which allows them to access it like one would bottle water.
6:04:35 PM	JaegerWolf  The rune thing is something I've always liked.
6:04:48 PM	Aubrey  Good runes last for a while.
6:04:55 PM	Aubrey  Bad ones are only good for a limited time.
6:05:03 PM	JaegerWolf  And Aubrey has a good way of decribing/using that.
6:06:20 PM	Froggy  OK.  So their psykers are warp sensitive and can do astro-telepathy (because if you can't do that in 40k you're a non-entity), but their other stunts are about slowly accumulating warp force into a runic structure?
6:06:54 PM	Froggy  Which means they're pretty good with dorf staples like wards and protections, no help with force lightning.
6:07:17 PM	Brennus  At least, not without some kind of lightning stick
6:08:02 PM	Brennus  But, yeah, that sounds good overall for their approach to psykery
6:08:19 PM	Froggy  And all of this may be because the Necrons have subtly meddled with them.
6:08:33 PM	 Alexandri twiddles his thumbs.
6:09:35 PM	Froggy  Alright, alright.  Any other big misses on the Komra?  I'll add the runes and we need to come back to them and the Scribes later.
6:10:09 PM	Aubrey  Question!
6:10:15 PM	Aubrey  What the fuck is a Komra.
6:10:35 PM	Froggy  http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Komra
6:10:57 PM	Alexandri  Come on Aubrey.
6:11:07 PM	Alexandri  I've only linked them myself like a thousand times.
6:11:19 PM	Aubrey  OH THESE FUCKERS
6:13:49 PM	Aubrey  Yeah I like 'em
6:14:15 PM	Aubrey  Are they as independant as the squats?
6:14:25 PM	Aubrey  Do they but heads with the Mechanicus alot?
6:15:19 PM	Froggy  They vary.  Cult of Krenz are more independent than the Squat (they are their own nasty thing).  Chelob Hold is an Imperial client state.  Haven't decided on their relationship with the techpriests, but no doubt it's complicated.
6:15:49 PM	Brennus  I would imagine that when the Mechanicus usually doesn't look to hard at the Komra, but when they do they start getting a bit pissy
6:16:40 PM	Brennus  The Mechboys get pissy, that is
6:16:46 PM	Arelex  Perhaps.
6:16:53 PM	Froggy  The fact that they don't use full AI is the Komra's saving grace.
6:17:11 PM	Arelex  Alternately, remember *which* Mechanus they're more likely to see day-to-day. The ones allied with Atalantos.
6:17:18 PM	Arelex  So they're going to be somewhat more "liberal".
6:17:25 PM	Froggy  So they're committing venal tech sins, not mortal ones.
6:17:34 PM	Froggy  Oh, pre-Heresy things would probably be quite rosey.
6:18:06 PM	Froggy  Like the Mechanicum would be all, "Woah, you guys have been doing interesting things, maybe we could have a chat about our different approaches?"
6:18:09 PM	Alexandri  I read that as
6:18:13 PM	Alexandri  >The mechboys get pussy
6:18:20 PM	Alexandri  Sorry, continue on.
6:18:23 PM	Alexandri  I just have nothing to add.
6:18:28 PM	Froggy  But post-Reformation the Komra are probably on Mars' shit list.
6:18:33 PM	Aubrey  Praise the Omnissiah
6:18:45 PM	Froggy  ...
6:18:55 PM	Froggy  Unless they get claimed as part of the domain of Mars?
6:19:20 PM	Aubrey  I'm guessing the Dorfs would tell them to piss off.
6:19:27 PM	Brennus  Hahaha, very amusing. I think Mars might TRY to claim them, but the Komra might be able to resist that claim
6:19:35 PM	Alexandri  >Resist
6:19:37 PM	Alexandri  Yeah nah
6:19:42 PM	Alexandri  It'd be a bloody affair all around.
6:19:45 PM	Alexandri  Maybe, just maybe.
6:19:48 PM	Froggy  Last time they fought the Imperium their greatest world got shattered by orbital bombardment.
6:19:55 PM	Arelex  Don't the AdMech consider the entire Imperium "The Domain Of Mars" in terms of tech stuff?
6:19:58 PM	Froggy  So I'm not sure they'd be up for another round.
6:20:00 PM	Alexandri  THe Komra could resist well enough to make them think it's not worth the effort.
6:20:04 PM	JaegerWolf  So, we have no section on the forum to discuss Primarchs.
6:20:05 PM	Arelex  Or are you literally talking "An enclave of Martian rule"?
6:20:17 PM	JaegerWolf  Why aren't all of us admins?
6:20:18 PM	Froggy  Formally "Industrial Worlds".
6:20:29 PM	Aubrey  So we have three tech factions in the Imperium.
6:20:33 PM	Froggy  Similar status to Knight Worlds sworn to Forge Worlds.
6:20:34 PM	Arelex  Also, the Core is an awful long way away.
6:20:37 PM	Brennus  I don't know, perhaps we should suggest that to Uriel
6:20:42 PM	Aubrey  We have the Mechanicus who are about tradition.
6:21:00 PM	Aubrey  The Dorfs who are probably about experimentation and progress.
6:21:09 PM	Aubrey  And the Atlantos Worlds who are about?
6:21:19 PM	Brennus  Preservation
6:22:04 PM	Aubrey  I think at some point a treaty would be punched out.
6:22:08 PM	Froggy  Well... I'd rather not burn the Mechanicus.  Having the Komra subordinate to them helps, while still making the techpriests dicks.
6:22:28 PM	Aubrey  Partners works better.
6:22:46 PM	Froggy  Oh, sure.  The same way they're partners with the Knights. ;)
6:22:49 PM	JaegerWolf  Treaty would work.
6:22:50 PM	Arelex  Atalantos is about preservation, and expansion. Find the blueprints, build the blueprints, export the finished products Imperium-wide.
6:23:00 PM	Aubrey  The Mechanicus officially recognises them as a part of the Greater Mechanicus.
6:23:17 PM	Arelex  And then make copies of the blueprints.
6:23:31 PM	Froggy  So the Dorfs give up their rights to colonise new worlds and have to pay material tithes but get "home rule", or something?
6:23:38 PM	Aubrey  As well as the Atalantos worlds, in return they share resources and limit some experimentation, while also watching eachothers backs.
6:23:41 PM	Brennus  Yeah, that would work well
6:24:07 PM	JaegerWolf  Any way to have a private side chat with Lumey, Alex, and Aubrey? I'd like to discuss an idea Aubrey gave me, but don't want to clutter the large-picture important thread.
6:24:11 PM	Brennus  Home rule lets the Mechanicus not worry about them while still profiting
6:24:20 PM	Froggy  And they're like, "Fine, sure, whatever, our main thing is to kill the shit out of the Cult of Krenz."
6:24:33 PM	Brennus  I'm sure you could create some kind of private room, but I don't know how to create channels
6:24:57 PM	JaegerWolf  #brainstormsession
6:25:17 PM	JaegerWolf  click the link.
6:25:27 PM	JaegerWolf  see if this works.
6:26:14 PM	Alexandri  Or do this
6:26:15 PM	Froggy  Merrill, if you want my attention then that's going to derail discussion on the Komra anyway.  Let's just move on to your idea.  I have stuff to work with.
6:26:20 PM	Alexandri  ./join #Channel
6:28:37 PM	JaegerWolf  Alright, so we know Merrill had kind of a shitty childhood growing up, and blahblahblah. Skip to the idea that a good chunk of his issues is that at some point, his "father" tries to kill him. Merrill defends himself, murdering the dude in the process, and laying down some serious trust issues for later.
6:30:42 PM	Brennus  Probably gonna be suspicious of Emps for that reason
6:30:42 PM	JaegerWolf  As it stands, the three people he trusts would be Aubrey, Uriel, and Hektor. That being said, I'm thinking for someone like Merrill, that takes more than "being close and helping out," it would take some serious action to PROVE that you're worth his trust.
6:31:28 PM	JaegerWolf  Oh, absolutely. Dude's basically absent his entire life, shows up out of nowhere, tells him his history and drops him in the middle of an army of strangers in one swoop.
6:33:06 PM	Brennus  What do the three of them do to earn his trust?
6:33:25 PM	JaegerWolf  Obviously I can't discuss options with Uriel, Aubrey seems to like taking the role of a kind of younger brother, and Brennus hits the question on the nose.
6:33:42 PM	JaegerWolf  Any idea what we could have Hektor do to cause this?
6:34:15 PM	Brennus  Hektor could be the reliable, trusted older brother that Merrill kind of adopts as a self-chosen father figure
6:34:24 PM	Froggy  Well, the Primarchs weren't just found and given command of their Legion.  Usually they went back to Terra to be tutored by Malky and/or the other Primarchs.
6:34:43 PM	Brennus  Hektor shows up right at the start of Merrill's career, teaches him, helps him, answers questions...
6:36:42 PM	Froggy  Really, it's more difficult to see what Aubrey did to get Merrill's trust, as he turns up thirty years later.  Uriel and Hektor are there at the start to mentor him.
6:37:06 PM	JaegerWolf  Yeah, you're right about the going back to Terra for the majority of them, I can adjust things on Merrill's bio to accomodate. Although he was found later in the Crusades.
6:37:12 PM	Brennus  Aubrey, hast thou a suggestion?
6:37:50 PM	Aubrey  Aubreys a caring person by nature.
6:38:04 PM	Froggy  Alternatively he could be inducted into Hektor's Crusade Fleet and learn from the master, with Uriel assigned as his "mentor" (i.e. to check up on him) after Merrill takes command.
6:38:05 PM	Aubrey  Perhaps he simply communicated more with Merrill and frequently.
6:40:06 PM	JaegerWolf  My thoughts are that they would still have to do something or series of somethings that would cement enough of an idea to bring about trust.
6:41:25 PM	Froggy  Well, if he basically gets welcomed into Hektor's household for a couple of years, treated as family (for realsies, not the kind of toxic relationships he's used to), that would be quite a thing.
6:42:30 PM	Brennus  Yeah, it would take a while, but that kind of environment would certainly foster trust
6:42:51 PM	JaegerWolf  If you've ever dealt with trust issues, that's baggage that stays attached for a long ass time and rears its head at the slightest provocation. I'm not knocking anything down, I think it adds an excellent basis for future work. I will continue to think on this stuff and get back to you guys.
6:43:23 PM	Froggy  OK.
6:43:27 PM	Aubrey  Well if Merrill is close to Hektor, Aubrey would come into conversion a number of times after Aubrey is found.
6:43:30 PM	Brennus  Cool
6:43:47 PM	Froggy  Alexandri, we're all very sorry.  Please bring us back to talking about the Primordial Brotherhood.
6:44:56 PM	Brennus  I think the PB should have some sort of constitution that makes the position of "Tyrant" official; the great leaders mostly abuse it, which contributes to the gradual decline
6:45:01 PM	Alexandri  NO
6:45:11 PM	Brennus  :(
6:45:13 PM	Brennus  Ok
6:45:34 PM	Alexandri  YOU DON'T GET TO TREAT ME LIKE THIS THEN EXPECT ME TO WALK BACK LIKE A TWELVE DOLLAR - So the Primordial Brotherhood is probably started by the a unsuspected Legionary commander.
6:45:59 PM	JaegerWolf  HEY, GUYS, I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA, LISTEN TO ME AND NOT ALEX!
6:46:01 PM	Alexandri  The reason Atmir stuck out to me was no one would suspect the Gorgers to bring shit together but there you go.
6:46:29 PM	Alexandri  Their unique sort of, internal philosophy, apprehension to Chaos worship, and other facets made them stick out to me for being a unifying force.
6:46:37 PM	Alexandri  At the moment, I have no one who could slot in like that perfectly.
6:46:44 PM	JaegerWolf  I hated Atmir at first, but he was a decent concept.
6:46:50 PM	Alexandri  So I'm open to suggestions. Perhaps the Iron Rangers? Who knows.
6:46:53 PM	Alexandri  Why'd you hate him?
6:46:54 PM	Alexandri  I'm curious.
6:46:59 PM	Brennus  Can Atmir fit into any other legions?
6:48:26 PM	Alexandri  Nope.
6:48:36 PM	Alexandri  I was thinking having a commander from the Iron Rangers though.
6:48:37 PM	Aubrey  The only other person who I could see as a Unifying figure is Tithonus and even then he's in it for the money.
6:48:51 PM	JaegerWolf  I didn't like him because he came from the CT, I just thought that would be the worst fit.
6:48:56 PM	Froggy  How about a non-psyker from the Black Augurs?
6:48:57 PM	Alexandri  But Atmir is sort of that, ancient warrior. Focused. Wise, in his own way. Knows what works, and knows what he must do.
6:49:04 PM	Alexandri  Why them, Lumey?
6:49:09 PM	Aubrey  Tithonus only really deals with Slaanesh because they have a common goal..
6:49:11 PM	Froggy  Least expected.
6:49:14 PM	Brennus  The Rangers have kind of an accepting enough philosophy, I feel, that one of them could pull a lot of others to his banner
6:50:08 PM	JaegerWolf  I think that post-heresy they become much more of wild cards.
6:50:37 PM	Froggy  Also, you can tell a bit of a story about what it's like to be a non-psyker in the psy-dominated Legion.
6:50:39 PM	JaegerWolf  and an IR commander over everything else might work, but there's no way to sell it.
6:51:19 PM	Froggy  (Added bonus: if the Primordial Brotherhood is all about ditching the word of the Primarchs, the Augurs would be early adopters.)
6:52:07 PM	JaegerWolf  I can see that.
6:52:48 PM	JaegerWolf  Even if he's only got some minor psychic abilities, their uses of clairvoyance would make them good commanders.
6:53:13 PM	JaegerWolf  Alternately, he could be granted powers due to the Mark of TZ.
6:53:41 PM	JaegerWolf  Considering he would be the chosen of the gods.
6:54:01 PM	Froggy  Nah, have him get NOTHING.  And not rise above Battle Brother until the Legion Wars.  But once things break up, his natural qualities rise to the fore and the guy is the most successful warband commander.
6:54:22 PM	JaegerWolf  hrm...
6:54:40 PM	JaegerWolf  That sounds intriguing.
6:54:49 PM	Brennus  Yeah, I like that
6:54:55 PM	Froggy  Because the Primoridal Brotherhood is meant to be about reforging the Traitors, right?
6:55:14 PM	Froggy  Alex, does that work for you?
6:55:26 PM	Alexandri  Got pulled away, reading
6:56:11 PM	Alexandri  I like it.
6:56:18 PM	Alexandri  It captures what was unique about Atmir.
6:56:39 PM	Alexandri  The sort of qualities where in the post-Legion world they show their prowess.
6:56:53 PM	Alexandri  Now for Atmir, he had the foresight to make it more about a collective rather than placing himself at the head.
6:57:04 PM	Alexandri  Is this the same?
6:57:07 PM	Alexandri  Actually
6:57:13 PM	Alexandri  Does everyone REMEMBER what Atmir did?
6:57:26 PM	Alexandri  Because I can run through it.
6:57:31 PM	Brennus  Yes please
6:58:37 PM	Alexandri  Atmir takes the majority of the geneseed for the Gorgers, builds up their strength while everyone fights. The rest of the Gorgers not beneath Atmir become various warbands doveted to various Gods while his own force stays Undivided.
6:59:15 PM	Alexandri  He then saves the gene-seed of the Ramparts, the main successors of the Bulwark by sooping down and killing the warband stealing it.
7:00:02 PM	Brennus  Ok. That explains how he'd get their support
7:00:03 PM	Alexandri  This endears the Ramparts to him. After that he gathers up the Mastodontii and collects one of the Homotimos from Hektor's inner circle, and they go on a massive raid into the Imperium with large amounts of loot.
7:00:18 PM	Alexandri  After this, they bring in the bigger Legions/Warbands into the Primordial Brotherhood.
7:00:52 PM	Froggy  The first bit is really easy to translate.  NewAtmir is able to appeal to the ordinary battle brothers of the Black Augurs while the Wizards make for their towers.
7:01:13 PM	Froggy  And a Black Augur lying in wait is - well, it's their thing, right? :)
7:01:22 PM	JaegerWolf  So why did LCK scrap Atmir?
7:01:45 PM	Froggy  Because Atmir wasn't part of LCK's homebrew chapter.
7:02:07 PM	JaegerWolf  ...Are...
7:02:16 PM	JaegerWolf  Are you fucking kidding me?
7:03:42 PM	Alexandri  Yeah.
7:03:46 PM	Alexandri  Along with everything else from the Gorgers.
7:04:00 PM	Froggy  Well, LCK posts on Bolter and Chainsword as "Sheesh Mode", and advertises his Chapter Name as "Cannibal Pact" there.
7:05:35 PM	JaegerWolf  Alright, back to the story.
7:06:06 PM	Alexandri  That's it.
7:06:16 PM	Alexandri  Atmir founds the Council then steps down, he also gets Aubrey to join on.
7:06:16 PM	JaegerWolf  So, he manages to unite the battle brothers, how about he waits on the psychers in their towers?
7:06:31 PM	Alexandri  Oh, we're talking translating.
7:06:40 PM	JaegerWolf  yeah.
7:07:08 PM	Froggy  Not sure that NewAtmir should set the stage for Aubrey.  I think that weakens both of them.
7:08:08 PM	Alexandri  What do you mean?
7:08:11 PM	Alexandri  He let's Aubrey in
7:08:16 PM	Alexandri  Gives the Brotherhood clout.
7:08:44 PM	JaegerWolf  Idea: He wants the Augurs psychics, but realizes that digging them out will be near impossible with the force he arrays, and they wouldn't necessarily be willing to discuss things.
7:08:55 PM	 Golgothos joined the channel.
7:08:59 PM	JaegerWolf  So who would be the next logical step for assistance?
7:09:18 PM	JaegerWolf  Still having problems, golgy?
7:09:57 PM	Froggy  Characterwise, having Atmir set up the gang for Aubrey kinda implies that the Primarch couldn't get a Crusade going on his own.  And needing to get Aubrey onboard to set up his "new order" isn't exactly looking to the future.
7:10:00 PM	Brennus  Which traitors have the second-most psykers?
7:10:23 PM	Aubrey  Ah I have an answer for that.
7:10:53 PM	JaegerWolf  Idk, I think having tactical superiority and a display of force to get them to willingly bend the knee would take precedence.
7:10:58 PM	Aubrey  The only reason that the other warbands haven't attempted a coup on Aubrey is because the EZ have been heading the slave trade.
7:11:11 PM	Aubrey  They are a major power in the eye, a very tolerated one.
7:11:27 PM	Aubrey  No one will help them in combat, but they maintain trade relations for resources.
7:11:48 PM	Aubrey  The reason why the EZ is hated is because everyone blames their problems on the primarchs fucking up.
7:12:02 PM	Aubrey  And the EZ are the only ones with a mortal primarch.
7:12:12 PM	Aubrey  But not JUST a mortal primarch, it's the arch-traitor himself.
7:12:45 PM	Brennus  And that's a very convenient scapegoat
7:13:06 PM	Aubrey  If they bring Aubrey in, they get a couple of things from eachother.
7:13:09 PM	Arelex  Arch Traitor I thought belonged to Hektor. Since he's... you know... the dude. Aubrey's the First Traitor.
7:13:51 PM	Froggy  Isn't the First Traitor Uriel?
7:13:53 PM	Aubrey  Aubrey can get people to stop hating him, making his ambitions easier. and the rest of Chaos get a general boost in man power and slave power.
7:14:47 PM	Brennus  But people don't know Uriel is the first traitor
7:14:51 PM	Arelex  Maybe Uriel is, yeah.
7:14:52 PM	Froggy  I still kinda think that having Atmir get his act together after Aubrey makes things cleaner.
7:15:02 PM	Arelex  But either way, I don't think anyone but Hektor is the Arch-Traitor.
7:15:18 PM	Froggy  I'm not sure that people would know that Aubrey is "the first Traitor" either...
7:15:33 PM	Brennus  Hmm, yeah
7:16:03 PM	Aubrey  Didn't we discuss that Aubrey took that role.
7:16:03 PM	Brennus  Probably people think of Hektor as Arch-Traitor. Nobody gives that title to Lorgar, after all
7:16:48 PM	Aubrey  Him Hektor and Uriel decided he was going to be the man to reveal his existence to the Imperium in a grand specticle to draw a lot of attention.
7:19:17 PM	Alexandri  Alright.
7:19:21 PM	Alexandri  Let's drop the Aubrey link.
7:19:31 PM	Aubrey  mhm
7:20:26 PM	Froggy  Y'know, NewAtmir could come to the rescue of the leaderless and depleted Eternal Zealots after Aubrey's Crusade.
7:21:35 PM	Aubrey  He'd probably have to contend with Tithonus later on and that would be so fucking interesting for me.
7:22:03 PM	Aubrey  Tithonus is built up to be this Huron Blackheart styled character, but he's seen it all from the start.
7:23:23 PM	Aubrey  Tithonus would be pissed to see his old legion in new hands. Especially, non-zealot hands.
7:23:48 PM	Froggy  Possibly NewAtmir rescues the Zealots FROM Tithonus?
7:24:38 PM	Brennus  Or at least rescues a certain portion of them; those who don;t meat Tithonus' standards, perhaps
7:25:10 PM	Brennus  *meet
7:25:17 PM	Brennus  Also *don't
7:25:51 PM	Froggy  I mean, we should establish the guy's credibility during Aubrey's crusade, possibly as the rearguard during the retreat, or alternatively his warband carry out a feint and are widly succesful, only having to withdraw to the Eye of Terror when the main force is defeated?
7:26:27 PM	Aubrey  Oooh~ drama.
7:26:50 PM	Brennus  I like it
7:28:20 PM	Aubrey  Ok ok, so just before the crusade is about to kick off, Tithonus. Aubreys right hand, the 1st captain, the most competent man in his entire forces, backs out, takes his company, and a good few others from other companies and a fuck ton of naval power, then peaces out. Sorry just thought I'd throw this in as one of the reasons the Crusade ends up failing.
7:28:26 PM	Aubrey  But yes, I like that idea Lumey.
7:28:56 PM	Froggy  Man, people are going to hate Tithonus.
7:28:58 PM	Arelex  Seems fairly Chaosy. I'll give it my thumbs up.
7:29:11 PM	Aubrey  Tithonus is a dick.
7:29:28 PM	Aubrey  All he does is plunder the materium and be a space pirate all day long.
7:29:39 PM	Froggy  Does he just chillax while the Crusade is going down, or go do his own private marauding in an entirely different area (taking advantage of the disruption)?
7:29:41 PM	Aubrey  He refuses any calls to arms he receives, if he ever receives it.
7:29:48 PM	Aubrey  Exactly.
7:29:54 PM	Aubrey  He feeds off of the crusade.
7:30:06 PM	Aubrey  But stays a long way away from it.
7:30:13 PM	Aubrey  Until he hears about the EZ under new management.
7:30:25 PM	Aubrey  He hadn't even heard of Aubreys death he's been away for so long.
7:30:42 PM	Aubrey  And returns, the full Black Sails Armada.
7:30:59 PM	Aubrey  Right behind him.
7:31:02 PM	Brennus  That is really cool. This does make a good Huron replacement
7:31:25 PM	Froggy  If there's a time lag, the EZ probably get pummeled by their old enemies and get an interim leadership as they try to survive.
7:31:46 PM	Aubrey  Makes sense.
7:31:54 PM	Arelex  The advantage to having Chaos fragments break off periodically is that every one can be a story, and a good reason for the (whatever) to fail without looking too jobbed. After all, Chaos is nothing if not selfish and opportunistic.
7:32:06 PM	Arelex  You can't really blame a warlord wannabe for striking out when his boss isn't looking.
7:32:14 PM	Brennus  Chaos loves betraying itself
7:32:14 PM	Froggy  Or alternatively, we could have NewAtmir show up right when the first old rival takes a swing (I'm guessing the Sons of Fire would be taking revenge early and often).
7:32:28 PM	Arelex  Nor the writers for adhering to the themes of Chaos.
7:32:29 PM	Arelex  exactly.
7:33:18 PM	Alexandri  The Sons of Fire break up after the Betrayal of Sudden Flame.
7:33:24 PM	Alexandri  They cease to be an entity.
7:33:27 PM	Brennus  If NewAtmir is going to be an Black Augur with no powers he needs a suitable title
7:33:33 PM	Alexandri  Thought that was clear, maybe I should go rewrite it.
7:33:36 PM	Froggy  NewAtmir will need to get an indisputable solid victory over the Imperium, though.
7:33:53 PM	Froggy  No "we withdraw having completed my plan after all".
7:33:59 PM	Alexandri  He doesn't.
7:34:05 PM	Alexandri  They stick around, but the Imperium comes down hard.
7:34:16 PM	Alexandri  The Second Black Crusade, which is successful, reclaims all they lost and more.
7:34:32 PM	Froggy  That will not do.  He has to sacrifice every inhabitant of a Hive World to the Ruinous Powers, including the Space Marine Chapter sent to stop him.
7:34:35 PM	Alexandri  Which becomes even more unstable and they all implode into Petty Fiefdoms that the Imperium swallows up in separate campaigns.
7:34:47 PM	Alexandri  He does that to multiple places.
7:34:57 PM	Alexandri  Sorry if I'm not conveying my ideas clearly.
7:35:45 PM	 Golgothos has quit: Ping timeout.
7:35:49 PM	Brennus  It sounds like he is more about fomenting unrest and discord with his campaigns
7:36:03 PM	Froggy  How big are you imagining the "Second Black Crusade"?  (Recommended retitle to something related to Atmir's name.)
7:36:43 PM	Alexandri  Second Black Crusade is held by a character we'll think up later as an example of the Primordial Brotherhood's strength.
7:37:21 PM	Brennus  :( I hope Golgo's computer will work better soon. I feel his title should be something that works both as an insult and something to be proud of. I can't for the life of me think of what that IS, but I'm wracking my brain as we...type.
7:38:08 PM	Alexandri  It's always been wack
7:38:29 PM	Alexandri  ANYWAYS
7:38:59 PM	Alexandri  All I'm saying here as a stepping stone for the Brotherhood's ability and then the subsequent crusade is an example of their downfall and then stagnation before Elenkor comes in.
7:39:41 PM	Froggy  OK, but I still need to get an idea for how big the PB's first incursion is.  You said they got it all back and more?  Like they get as far as Isstvan?  Luna?
7:41:14 PM	Brennus  0_0 I would think they don't get as far as Luna. How about, say, an early, but temporary, conquest of Cadia?
7:41:28 PM	Alexandri  No no no
7:41:41 PM	Alexandri  They take Cadia and the various surrounding systems first. They take double/triple that the second time.
7:42:07 PM	Froggy  Is this before Cadia gets turned into a Fortress World?
7:43:27 PM	JaegerWolf  Actually, you guys suggested a second campaign, and I got two votes to have an IR guy do that. With a pre-existing leadership, that might happen. He could pull a Stalin and assassinate or otherwise remove other rivals from play, but isn't able to hold everything together as well. He's too cautious for the Khorne types, too inelegant for the Slaaneshi, not doing whatever enough for the followers of Nurgle and Tzeentch, so he gets
7:43:35 PM	Arelex  Are we still assuming Cadia is the lynchpin of the Eye?
7:44:00 PM	Froggy  We could mess with the Cadian Gate but it's a pretty big change.
7:44:00 PM	Alexandri  Yes Froggy.
7:44:04 PM	Alexandri  They can't take Cadia the second time
7:44:06 PM	Alexandri  They just sorta
7:44:07 PM	Alexandri  Surround it
7:44:19 PM	Froggy  Besiege it?
7:45:40 PM	Brennus  Just make sure no Jedi get down to the surface
7:46:27 PM	Brennus  But Seriously, I don't think it's that bad of an idea to mess with the gate, as long as we cement the Imperials as holding it by M41
7:46:59 PM	Alexandri  Yes.
7:47:08 PM	Alexandri  But the first time they take it because there is nothing there.
7:47:20 PM	Alexandri  No one realizes how badly they need to hold it till after the Imperials force them out.
7:47:28 PM	Alexandri  Think of it like the first 3 crusades situation, sorta, kinda.
7:50:03 PM	Brennus  Overall failures that netted advantages for later tries?
7:50:40 PM	JaegerWolf  I think it should change hands several times by M.41, ending up in the hands of the Empire. It makes a lot of sense to want to take it quickly early on in a campaign, it's a foothold, and sets up a precedence as to WHY every man, woman, and child is conscripted. If it's always successful, such extreme measures would never fully develop.
7:51:18 PM	JaegerWolf  It also makes for an excellent initial foothold due to its proximity to the Eye.
7:51:43 PM	Arelex  Chaos occupation would wreck the fortifications of Cadia though
7:51:55 PM	Arelex  so you'd never really get to build it up like you need for a credible defense.
7:52:17 PM	Arelex  You need time, and you need to not have Tzeentch rubbing his balls on it, to keep it an Imperial world.
7:52:43 PM	Arelex  Cause of the corruption thing.
7:52:53 PM	Arelex  Chaos is hard to remove, once it gets the slightest foothold.
7:53:04 PM	Brennus  *shudder* There's a mental image that won't leave for a good while
7:54:18 PM	Alexandri  Yeah.
7:54:29 PM	Alexandri  I don't think they take it only except for the beginning though before it's fortified.
7:54:34 PM	Alexandri  But I want to switch topics.
7:54:38 PM	Alexandri  Lumey, you there?
7:54:47 PM	Froggy  Did GeeDubs ever tell us what else was in the Cadian system?
7:55:08 PM	Alexandri  Yes
7:55:16 PM	Alexandri  Namely the shit that Abby blowed it up.
7:55:18 PM	Alexandri  http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1438423352132.jpg
7:55:21 PM	Alexandri  But I want to ask
7:55:26 PM	Alexandri  Do you feel up to talking Sisters?
7:55:43 PM	Aubrey  I sent something to skype
7:55:44 PM	Aubrey  Enhoy
7:55:46 PM	Aubrey  enjoy*
7:55:58 PM	Aubrey  I spent a good two hours on it.
7:56:26 PM	Froggy  Umm... we could discuss the Adepta, I guess.
7:56:27 PM	Brennus  Lemme get on the Skype
7:56:37 PM	Brennus  I'll talk Sisters some, sure.
7:57:06 PM	Aubrey  Oh Sisters are an interesting subject
7:57:10 PM	JaegerWolf  And you're right about the taint and rebuilding the defenses, but we have like 9,000 years to work with.
7:57:57 PM	Brennus  It's like...Cthulhu-helm
7:57:58 PM	Arelex  It's more that every defeat, no matter how slight, and every touch of Chaos, no matter how short lived, means that all future fights become that much easier. Especially if Chaos is actualy kinda *focused* on something.
7:58:20 PM	Arelex  So if you don't write about that weakening effect, it feels like you're just too cool for Chaos's shit.
7:58:45 PM	Froggy  We could pull the "Touch of Chaos" thing on the second crusade, where the Imperial garrison just goes Heretic as soon as the Traitors show up.
7:59:06 PM	Aubrey  Cthulhu helm?
7:59:33 PM	Froggy  And when the Imperials return they basically give the world to the Inquisition for the next thousand years to ruthlessly purge early and often.
7:59:36 PM	Brennus  Yes. The hangy down bits remind me of face tentacles, which reminds me of Cthulhu
7:59:48 PM	Froggy  Not that the Inquisition doesn't do that anyway, but - more so.
8:00:00 PM	Froggy  Heck, it could be a signal event in the Inquisition getting more Inquisitiony.
8:00:39 PM	Arelex  I could buy that. If there ever WAS a world whereupon the Imperium might actually try to "beat/purge" Chaos, it'd be Cadia.
8:00:41 PM	Froggy  (I'll talk Sisters when Alex lays out the idea.)
8:00:42 PM	JaegerWolf  That...Might actually work for the story.
8:00:56 PM	Arelex  You'd get one failed defense from the Imperium, where the planet's getting corrupted for a while.
8:00:57 PM	Brennus  Seems legit, I like it.
8:01:02 PM	Arelex  Then you'd get the reconquest at some point.
8:01:04 PM	Alexandri  I was thinking of going more indepth to their importance, touch upon the idea that they keep Chapters in line, and other such things.
8:01:17 PM	Arelex  And then the Inquisition goes "Shit, we need to get SERIOUS here".
8:01:41 PM	Arelex  And that influences them for the rest of history, and cements the "WE MUST DEFEND THIS PLANET" in the Imperium's bueraucratic mind, to the point where it's basically dogma.
8:01:47 PM	Arelex  As the Imperium often does.
8:02:02 PM	Arelex  And then it's a self-fulfilling prophesy for "why is Cadia so important?"
8:02:06 PM	Froggy  OK.  Well, I assume that we want to go with pretty serious quantities of Adepta, like at least twenty per Imperial Planet?
8:02:07 PM	Arelex  Because it just IS, to the Imperium.
8:02:17 PM	Brennus  That's kind of an interesting idea, Alex, Sisters as doctrinal enforcers for Astartes. It might explain why they use similar gear
8:03:29 PM	Alexandri  I think the idea you laid out a while back is a good one.
8:03:33 PM	Alexandri  Lemme find it.
8:03:35 PM	 Golgothos joined the channel.
8:03:51 PM	Brennus  Hi Golgothos
8:04:02 PM	Alexandri  http://1d4chan.org/wiki//tg/_Heresy_31k-40k_Dump
8:04:13 PM	Alexandri  Proposal 1: Full Sororitas.
8:04:51 PM	Brennus  Sexy Jesus Look
8:05:07 PM	Froggy  Sexy Jesus stuff is key.
8:05:21 PM	Aubrey  Oh god
8:05:49 PM	Froggy  Having the Church-based army be the most overtly sexualized is the kind of thing that 40k used to be more about.
8:06:04 PM	JaegerWolf  So, if they fight in a vacuum does that make them sexy space Jesuses?
8:07:29 PM	Froggy  Obviously.
8:07:40 PM	JaegerWolf  Alright, I gots to get going. Have fun talking smack behind my back.
8:07:57 PM	Froggy  Nah, I'll save the smack talk for next time. ;)
8:08:02 PM	Brennus  They are Brides of the Emperor, but it's an open marriage. Later dude, take care
8:08:10 PM	JaegerWolf  You I believe.
8:10:04 PM	Froggy  OK, so other than the "equality" stuff, how do people feel about the proposal to make the Adepta a massive army, bigger than the Mechanicus' armed forces?
8:10:25 PM	Alexandri  All for it.
8:10:47 PM	Brennus  Yeah, that sounds fine'
8:11:12 PM	Brennus  The superior technology of the Mechanicus will allow them to retain an equal place in the hierarchy of the Imperium
8:11:50 PM	Froggy  The Ecclesiarchy is meant to be the most powerful single organisation in the Imperium, although the Inquisition does have more clout.
8:12:09 PM	 JaegerWolf has quit: Ping timeout.
8:12:39 PM	Froggy  That said, a Titan Legion is hard to compare to anything else.
8:13:07 PM	Arelex  See, I would have called it the other way round.
8:13:17 PM	Arelex  Ecclesiarchy has the clout, because morality
8:13:28 PM	Arelex  and Inquisition has the power, but they're not well known.
8:13:37 PM	Arelex  Because sekret police without rules or limits.
8:13:40 PM	Froggy  Getting ten percent of everything is kind of a big deal.
8:13:53 PM	Brennus  And the velvet glove around the Titan Legion's iron fist is the correct rituals and knowledge to make mundane tech work right
8:14:05 PM	Froggy  Whereas Inquisitors can turn up and say, "By the Authority of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind" and you'd better hop to it.
8:16:06 PM	Brennus  They all have different advantages in the Imperial system
8:16:36 PM	Froggy  Anyway, was there a particular mechanism by which you wanted them to regulate the Adeptus Astartes?  Or are they just a counterweight?
8:16:36 PM	Brennus  They're like wobbly legs holding up a rickety chair
8:18:42 PM	Arelex  "regulating" Astartes is gonna be tricky.
8:19:31 PM	Alexandri  I think they know how to fight them, trained to fight them, and other such things. They also have power armor and heavy weaponry the guard doesn't have in spades.
8:19:34 PM	Brennus  You need the weight of numbers, and equivalent (if not superior) tech.
8:19:41 PM	Froggy  I guess Inquisitors being able to say, "And if you step out of line, I will drown you in musclenuns" does help.
8:19:43 PM	Alexandri  They can be a good, strong hand of the Inquisition.
8:20:18 PM	Brennus  Unless the chapter is falling to Slaanesh, Froggy. That might just be an encouragement. ;)
8:20:55 PM	Froggy  That does imply that a lot of the fighting against Renegade Marines from M37 onwards is done by the Adepta.
8:21:23 PM	Brennus  It's a good way to make them more prominent, if we wanna do that
8:22:04 PM	Froggy  Although the Inquisition does "start play" with the Grey Knights and the Eyes of the Emperor.
8:23:54 PM	Alexandri  I think it's a good way to bring them into the forefront of the setting doing something that's almost necessary.
8:25:27 PM	Froggy  ("Chamber Malleus" and "Chamber Oculus"?)
8:25:31 PM	Brennus  They could be almost an advance warning system of chapters about to fall
8:27:50 PM	Froggy  I dont' know about advance waring, that's getting too close to the Inquisition's own turf.  Remember that the Adepta Sororitas are part of the Ecclesiarchy, only required to work for Inquisitors in the same way as any other Imperial Citizen.
8:30:00 PM	Brennus  Yes, but the Ecclesiarchy has to have at least some interest in making sure the Astartes are not developing heretical beliefs, given their central nature in protecting mankind.
8:30:15 PM	Brennus  Or reporting on them if they do develop those beliefs.
8:31:22 PM	Froggy  Hmm.  The OU Astartes are hardcore heretics, maintaining Chapter Beliefs way outside of the Imperial Faith.
8:32:25 PM	Brennus  Do we want to keep that, or change things up?
8:33:40 PM	Froggy  With the shape of the Loyalist Legions, I would be a bit surprised if they went orthodox.
8:33:50 PM	Arelex  I say we may as well keep it. Astartes have a massive range of beliefs as it is, some loyal, some religious, some iconoclast, some just not giving a fuck.
8:33:55 PM	Arelex  No need to limit ourselves.
8:34:24 PM	Arelex  Probably the Scribes will adhere pretty close to orthodoxy, if not closest, but they won't be the religious ones either.
8:36:20 PM	Alexandri  It's more the Chapters follow slightly modified Truth doctrine.
8:36:30 PM	Alexandri  And the Ecclesiarchy's revival happened around them, and without their consent.
8:38:10 PM	Brennus  Perhaps they get grandfathered in, and the Sisters simply watch for full blown Chaos worship?
8:39:09 PM	Froggy  Well, they also have wars of faith to wage, right?  There are going to be schismatics all the time, and the Sororitas need to beat them back into line.
8:39:45 PM	 TheWaywardGuardsman joined the channel.
8:40:19 PM	Alexandri  Yes.
8:40:24 PM	Alexandri  I was thinking that too
8:40:24 PM	Brennus  Hey there WG
8:40:29 PM	Alexandri  Wayward, we're discussing the Sororitas.
8:40:37 PM	Froggy  Hi Wayward.
8:41:27 PM	TheWaywardGuardsman  Sup thar
8:41:37 PM	TheWaywardGuardsman  Bolterbitches, eh?
8:41:43 PM	TheWaywardGuardsman  Whats the current word on them then?
8:42:05 PM	Froggy  http://1d4chan.org/wiki//tg/_Heresy_31k-40k_Dump
8:44:58 PM	Alexandri  Okay Lumey.
8:45:01 PM	Alexandri  You want me writing on the PB?
8:45:09 PM	Alexandri  I think I can get a big write up done tonight
8:45:50 PM	Froggy  Well, it was the main topic of discussion today, so I think there should be plenty to go on.
8:46:55 PM	Alexandri  There is.
8:47:11 PM	Alexandri  I'm thinking the NewAtmir doesn't disclose what Legion he and his men are from.
8:47:17 PM	Alexandri  Wait no that's dumb.
8:47:20 PM	Alexandri  Forget that.
8:48:37 PM	Brennus  I dunno, that's not so dumb
8:49:07 PM	Brennus  Especially if he is a non psyker Black Augur
8:49:46 PM	Alexandri  Hmm.
8:49:55 PM	Alexandri  The PB is about shaking off the old Legions.
8:50:02 PM	Alexandri  To create one singular Legion.
8:50:16 PM	Alexandri  It doesn't ever achieve that dream though because if it did bye bye Imperium and Elenkor would have fuck all to do.
8:50:39 PM	Brennus  Yeah, the individualistic tendencies of Chaos always spoil the plan
8:51:23 PM	Aubrey  And the 13th happens.
8:51:31 PM	Aubrey  The Black Sails decide to say fuck it.
8:51:52 PM	Aubrey  Their full Naval might and their many many slaves come to the side of the Black Legion.
8:52:30 PM	Alexandri  13th?
8:52:31 PM	Alexandri  13th what?
8:52:37 PM	Aubrey  Black
8:52:38 PM	Aubrey  Crusade
8:52:49 PM	Alexandri  There are only 4 now.
8:52:57 PM	Aubrey  The last one
8:53:11 PM	Alexandri  That's Elenkor, sons of Hektor's show.
8:53:30 PM	Aubrey  Then he has back-up.
8:53:32 PM	Aubrey  Wait...
8:53:37 PM	Aubrey  We can work with that.
8:53:40 PM	Alexandri  He disbands the Council of Warmasters and makes the Primordial Brotherhood his personal Legion with the Transhuman Cohort as his personal guard.
8:53:52 PM	Alexandri  Lumey!
8:53:55 PM	Alexandri  What's a good size for the PB?
8:54:31 PM	Aubrey  Then maybe he sends out an Invitation to Tithonus?
8:54:56 PM	Aubrey  Not to be a meat puppet, but to actually be someone who will be heard.
8:56:52 PM	Alexandri  Froggy
8:56:55 PM	Alexandri  What's a good size of the PB?
8:57:02 PM	Alexandri  90,000?
8:58:43 PM	Alexandri  Man this got quiet.
8:58:50 PM	Alexandri  Or maybe I'm just hyper and excited.
8:58:53 PM	Arelex  I still don't like either of those names very much, but 90k Marines under one person's command is pretty damned huge, for a not-Primarch deal.
8:59:10 PM	Arelex  That's a lot to ask Chaos to keep in one place for more than 5 minutes before imploding.
8:59:46 PM	Brennus  Yeah, probably it would be smaller than that, but with a lot of traitorous humans, and some daemon backup
8:59:50 PM	Alexandri  Black Legion is 200,000
9:00:07 PM	Alexandri  And the Corsairs under Blackheart are something like 130,000
9:00:27 PM	Aubrey  So if we we're going in the ball park of Tithonus is coming back.
9:00:50 PM	Aubrey  Picking up the pieces of the EZ and deciding to throw in his lot, that would be a substantual number.
9:01:08 PM	Aubrey  not including regular human man-power.
9:01:21 PM	Arelex  But how many of those 200k are actually "under control" and not just "some dudes in the same area"?
9:01:40 PM	Arelex  cause that's as many as the entire Ultramarines Legion at full strength.
9:01:43 PM	Arelex  That seems like a LOT.
9:02:09 PM	Brennus  It really does
9:02:28 PM	Alexandri  What's wrong with the names Arelex?
9:02:35 PM	Alexandri  I can talk to you about that while we wait for Lumey
9:03:01 PM	Aubrey  Because they are all spread out.
9:03:20 PM	Aubrey  They don't all attack Cadia, because that would just be a huge clusterfuck
9:03:34 PM	Aubrey  There would be no ground combat, it would be ship on ship blockades.
9:03:35 PM	Arelex  They just feel cumbersome and awkward. "Transhuman" isn't a word I associate Marines with thinking of themselves as, or knowing in general. They're just Marines.
9:03:47 PM	Arelex  It sounds like a different flavor of sci-fi, basically.
9:04:06 PM	Brennus  The Transhuman Cohort are the ones most closely associated with Pallas, so that's why that name
9:04:13 PM	Aubrey  to me Marines are demi-gods
9:04:17 PM	Aubrey  Or Demi-daemons
9:04:21 PM	Arelex  "Primal" might at least be better than Primordial. "Primordial Brotherhood" is a hard thing to make a battlecry out of, you know?
9:04:44 PM	Arelex  The two names sound pompous and overblown, I guess. Idk.
9:04:59 PM	Arelex  Oddly intillectual.
9:05:15 PM	Froggy  I would just say "tens of thousands of Traitor Marines recognise the authority of the Primordial Brotherhood".
9:05:18 PM	Alexandri  ...Arelex.
9:05:40 PM	Alexandri  Transhuman Dread is literally a pschological condition in 40k.
9:05:49 PM	Arelex  Just sounds weird on the tongue, is all.
9:06:15 PM	Froggy  It is an odd flow of vowels.
9:07:14 PM	Alexandri  Hrm
9:07:17 PM	Arelex  yeah, when you sound it out it has so many syllables, and the cadence feels off.
9:08:01 PM	Arelex  I guess... it sounds like a "tryhard" name, for a more pretentious, actually "transhuman" sci fi game, like Eclipse Phase or something. It brings to mind high tech and bio-catgirls, not SPESS MEHREENS.
9:08:03 PM	Froggy  Like, "Transhuman Squadron" sounds OK but isn't quite "high-falutin'" enough.
9:08:06 PM	Alexandri  Also the idea behind Primordial Brotherhood is to be the big pompous powerhouse in the room.
9:08:19 PM	Alexandri  Like another big overblown name
9:08:28 PM	Alexandri  Holy Roman Empire. Which is what inspired them.
9:08:49 PM	Alexandri  A loose collection of tribes confederated under a singular ruler who has a hard time reigning them in. But when he does, oh man.
9:09:01 PM	Froggy  That said, the Transhuman Cohort is the post-Luna outfit, doing Fabulous Bile stuff.  They're not primarily about kicking people's teeth out.
9:09:20 PM	Arelex  Could you maybe Gothic the name up a bit? That might help.
9:09:39 PM	Arelex  Make it sound less "near future"?
9:11:25 PM	Froggy  ... Novamarines? :D
9:12:21 PM	Alexandri  Every google search I can to give me ideas is failing me.
9:12:41 PM	Arelex  Lol, Novamarines is pretty good. :P
9:12:53 PM	Arelex  Hmm..
9:13:24 PM	Brennus  Marines Transcendant?
9:13:45 PM	Alexandri  That's a good one.
9:13:51 PM	Alexandri  I want to replace Marines.
9:14:05 PM	Alexandri  Order Militant Transcendant?
9:14:09 PM	Alexandri  No.
9:14:12 PM	Alexandri  Argh.
9:14:18 PM	Arelex  Transkendos Legio? Astrancendos?
9:14:21 PM	Brennus  Knights Transcendant?
9:14:29 PM	Arelex  Marinus Innovatum?
9:14:37 PM	Arelex  Novastartes?
9:14:46 PM	Alexandri  Astartes Transcendant.
9:14:50 PM	Alexandri  There we go.
9:15:02 PM	Alexandri  Now the Primordial Brotherhood...
9:15:05 PM	Brennus  Yeah, that works
9:15:35 PM	Arelex  Eclipse is a synonym for Transcend. Maybe that'd work for something.
9:16:06 PM	Brennus  Eclipse Brethren?
9:16:15 PM	Arelex  Primordial Brotherhood: Cult of the First? The Firstborn? Adherents of the Truth?
9:16:28 PM	Arelex  Sight-Blessed?
9:16:41 PM	Froggy  Ultimarines.
9:16:58 PM	Arelex  Primus Oraculum?
9:17:02 PM	Froggy  Unfortunately everyone would slur it into smurfs, so it won't work.
9:17:13 PM	Arelex  yeah. amusing idea though.
9:17:13 PM	Froggy  Wolves of Dusk.
9:17:43 PM	Arelex  Subastrans.
9:18:00 PM	Arelex  Like submarines, but sub-Warp.
9:18:06 PM	Arelex  or some similar wording.
9:18:17 PM	Arelex  "Those that gaze deeply" or some such.
9:18:52 PM	Froggy  Actually, Eclipse might be the right track.  Eclipse Warriors?
9:19:16 PM	Arelex  "Occluded" something?
9:19:30 PM	Arelex  Light-eaters?
9:19:54 PM	Arelex  (The Blacklights) :P
9:20:04 PM	Froggy  The Blackhearts.
9:20:07 PM	Brennus  Haha nice
9:20:16 PM	Brennus  To both of those
9:20:17 PM	Alexandri  Blackheart Brotherhood?
9:20:58 PM	Alexandri  What about mine?
9:21:13 PM	Arelex  mine what?
9:21:15 PM	Brennus  Yeah, that's good
9:21:19 PM	Froggy  Blackhearts is not an option, even if the Traitors do love rock and roll.
9:21:42 PM	 TheWaywardGuardsman has quit: Ping timeout.
9:22:40 PM	Brennus  Maybe the Band of the Blackhearted?
9:23:40 PM	Froggy  ... would they have Joan-class Jets? :D
9:23:48 PM	Brennus  Hahaha
9:24:34 PM	Alexandri  :v
9:24:54 PM	Arelex  Before I get too spun around, remind me again the core purpose of the Primordials?
9:25:03 PM	Arelex  What is their most essential "thing"?
9:25:34 PM	Alexandri  Replacement of the Black Legion. Believe in pure service to the Pantheon of the Chaos Gods, and that the various Legions during the Heresy fucked over the Traitors by being too fractured.
9:25:39 PM	Alexandri  So they form a brotherhood of the primordial.
9:26:01 PM	Alexandri  A coalition of Marines rallied behind the pure essance of the universe...
9:26:02 PM	Alexandri  CHAOS
9:26:46 PM	Froggy  Undivided... Brotherhood/Cohort?
9:27:06 PM	Alexandri  Undivided Brotherhood could be a good one.
9:27:12 PM	Arelex  Well, that puts me in mind of the "Primordial Truth" that Chaos is described as.
9:27:23 PM	Arelex  Maybe focus on the more "religious" aspects of Chaos?
9:27:35 PM	Arelex  It might be what holds them together instead of fragmenting so easily, after all.
9:27:49 PM	Froggy  It's a pity we can't call them the Wordbearers.
9:28:29 PM	Arelex  Seers, Deep Gazers, The Learned, The En"dark"ened.
9:28:49 PM	Brennus  The Abyssal Seers
9:29:18 PM	Arelex  The White Eyes, like how seers often have cataracts and are blind and such?
9:29:23 PM	Arelex  or something similar?
9:29:45 PM	Arelex  Go full Sauruman's "White Hand" style?
9:30:23 PM	Arelex  Or maybe in mockery of the Imperium, call them "The Purified/The Pure/The Cleansed/The Unstained"?
9:30:29 PM	Brennus  The White Spirals
9:30:45 PM	Brennus  I like "The Unstained"
9:33:11 PM	Arelex  Mmk. Unstained Lords, Unstained Legion, Astartes Unstained, Legio Imaculat (untarnished in Roman)
9:34:31 PM	Aubrey  So what, they reform the fractured EZ?
9:34:42 PM	Alexandri  The Immaculate Host?
9:34:49 PM	Alexandri  No, they reform various Legions.
9:34:52 PM	Aubrey  remake them into the bearers of the gods they were.
9:34:55 PM	Froggy  The Unstained is pretty good.
9:35:15 PM	Aubrey  i'm outta here.
9:35:26 PM	Froggy  Yeah, get some sleep man. :)
9:35:41 PM	Arelex  Sure. The Unstained it is.
9:35:42 PM	Brennus  Catch you later, sleep well
9:35:49 PM	Aubrey  But soon Lumey
9:35:51 PM	Aubrey  Soon.
9:35:55 PM	Arelex  Or some similar Gothic version, should anyone have a brainwave.
9:35:55 PM	Aubrey  You.
9:36:27 PM	Aubrey  Wait Lumey question
9:36:36 PM	Aubrey  Merely curiousity, where the fuck do you live?
9:36:58 PM	Aubrey  Uriel and I are britbongs
9:37:11 PM	Aubrey  And you respect the 'U'
9:37:19 PM	Aubrey  Unlike these other...heathens.
9:37:25 PM	Froggy  I'm back in New Zealand.  For me this meetup has been a leisurely midday chat.
9:37:30 PM	Alexandri  I want something else to go along with Unstained
9:37:31 PM	 Golgothos has quit: Ping timeout.
9:37:31 PM	Alexandri  And then I'm sold.
9:37:43 PM	Aubrey  Snake Bearers.
9:37:59 PM	Aubrey  Guardians of the Serpent.
9:38:20 PM	Alexandri  >:|
9:38:36 PM	Aubrey  ... Lizard Feet.
9:38:45 PM	Froggy  Viper Warriors
9:38:51 PM	Aubrey  Eyyy!
9:38:53 PM	Froggy  Ophidian Knights
9:39:00 PM	Arelex  what does "go along with" mean? Like another name, or an addition to the name, or what?
9:39:10 PM	Froggy  Cobra. Commanders.
9:39:19 PM	Aubrey  Lumey
9:39:25 PM	Aubrey  Is my favourite person now.
9:39:43 PM	Alexandri  UNSTAINED
9:39:44 PM	Alexandri  SOMETHING
9:39:46 PM	Alexandri  That's what I mean.
9:40:01 PM	Aubrey  Unstained Fangs
9:40:04 PM	Aubrey  Tails
9:40:05 PM	Froggy  Unstained Asps
9:40:06 PM	Aubrey  Eyes
9:40:10 PM	Aubrey  Venom
9:40:12 PM	Aubrey  Snakes
9:40:14 PM	Aubrey  Snakes?!
9:40:20 PM	Aubrey  SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAKESSSS?!?!
9:40:25 PM	Alexandri  TAils Eyes Venom Snakes Snakes
9:40:27 PM	Alexandri  Is now their name
9:40:30 PM	Alexandri  I hope you're happy.
9:40:31 PM	Brennus  Unstained Host?
9:40:38 PM	Alexandri  That's good.
9:41:54 PM	Arelex  seems ok
9:43:27 PM	 Aubrey has quit: Ping timeout.
9:43:36 PM	Froggy  Unstained Pythons?
9:43:40 PM	Arelex  lol
9:44:18 PM	Froggy  Untarnished Elapids?
9:44:37 PM	Arelex  I gotta say, this has been a decent conversation, although it does make the thread look somewhat embarrasingly empty.
9:45:02 PM	Alexandri  Speaking of threads
9:45:08 PM	Alexandri  I was thinking of making it we have weekly threads
9:45:13 PM	Alexandri  So everyone knows when they're on
9:45:20 PM	Arelex  seems ok
9:45:27 PM	Alexandri  And we start getting a more permanent presence again.
9:45:34 PM	Alexandri  So one on Tuesday, one on Saturday?
9:45:39 PM	Alexandri  That way we have Weekend and Weekday threads.
9:45:59 PM	Brennus  That sounds like it would work well, I like it
9:46:14 PM	Froggy  Sure.
9:46:36 PM	Alexandri  Lumey, like prog-rock?
9:47:30 PM	Alexandri  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CEYzC-RqxI
9:47:34 PM	Alexandri  This song makes me think Elenkor
9:48:02 PM	Alexandri  Right
9:48:03 PM	Alexandri  Unstained Host?
9:48:08 PM	Alexandri  I think I can work on it now.
9:49:18 PM	Brennus  Cool
9:50:27 PM	Brennus  Damn, this is really good. I like prog metal
9:50:56 PM	Froggy  OK.  How about we call time on the meetup and aim to chat again in a week?  That should be time for the Unstained Host material to get drafted and read.