Ray McGovern Interviewed by Lee Stranahan pt2 (04/08/2017)

Supplemental document for: "Theory that Roger Stone's back channel to Wikileaks was Randy Credico", link: https://wakelet.com/wake/2d352ae9-febe-44a1-a7bb-51674a2e4bf5

"Ray McGovern addresses the 2017 Syrian gas attack accusations": Ray McGovern interviewed by Lee Stranahan. Upload date: April 8, 2017.

File link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBtXcu5cnZs

LEE STRANAHAN
So, just introduce yourself real quick.

RAY MCGOVERN
Sure. I belong to a movement, that's a mouthful, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, or: VIPS.

STRANAHAN
Okay, Ray, what have you heard about this latest attack that caused Donald Trump to launch missiles? Have you heard anything from operations people who are on the ground there?

MCGOVERN
We have. Now I must tell you, that we have about fifteen active members of VIPS. Some of them are incredibly well plugged into NSA, and in this case, the military on the scene. So, we got word, a day and a half ago, that the attack on that- well, the attack that released the chemicals in Syria, this was not a chemical bombing or missile, or something like that, from a Syrian aircraft. Rather, it was a targeted, it was a targeted bombing, or missile attack, on what was suspected to be an arms depot, in the rebel held territories. You wanna get the arms depot, right? Little did the Syrians know, it was full of phosphate, full of all kinds of chemicals.

STRANAHAN
And you heard that from people on the ground?

MCGOVERN
That's correct.

STRANAHAN
Okay.

MCGOVERN
People in the military. Now, the question is, of course, even though people in the lieutenant captain level know that, and let's say they have the courage to report that up the line, there's no guarantee that other people who fancy themselves as "mad dogs", as does this Secretary of Defense, "Mad Dog" Mattis, are report that [sic] to Washington. We have a guy at CENTCOM who has a kind of bloodlust for Syria, okay? So, whether that got up to the president or not, I can't say. All I can say is, that everyone that I'm connected with, used all the contacts that they had, to make sure that the White House knew. And we are, though other channels, assured that indeed the White House did know that the CIA played it straight, and yet, Trump was persuaded...by whomever...to do what he did last night, and that makes it just a real, well, what's the word...a kind of flashback to some really bad times in the past.

STRANAHAN
And one quick follow-up. What you said is consistent with the AWACS report, showing there were planes that went in...so we know that that happened, right? But knowing that the planes went in, doesn't mean that the gas came from the planes? Am I making sense there, because that's being used as a justification.

MCGOVERN
Well, that's correct, you know. And it was proven that the sarin, and the other chemicals that the Syrian army had, and were accused of using, in August and the earlier months, 2013, were all _surrendered_, _given up_, by Bashar Al-Assad, at Russian behest really, to be destroyed on a U.S. ship, especially outfitted for such destruction. Did that happen? Yeah, it happened. Was it verified? Yes, it was verified. So where's this stuff come from? And is it sarin? Well, if it's sarin, that's a little bit of a problem. There's no indication that Syria has the capability to manufacture these weapon systems since 2013. Matter of fact, they're all twenty years old anyway. Now, what were these chemicals? I don't know. But as long as you have a battle going on, as long as the rebels are in control of this part of Syria, are you going to get UN, are you going to get UN inspectors in there? Give me a break, you're not. Did you get them into Ghouta? Well, not really. They never got to first base. They came back, and said, we don't know what happened, okay? So, it's pretty crass, it's pretty...I dunno, hypocritical, to be accusing Syrians of actually doing this intentionally, when we know on the ground, that there has been a terrible mistake. Now, is there precedent for this? Yeah. I was briefing the PDB, the President's Daily Brief, in 1983. What happened? Korean airliner, KAL 007, was shot down over Siberia. Had it violated Soviet airspace? Yes it had. Had it followed the same trajectory as an earlier RC 135? Yes, it had. That's a spy plane [an RC 135]. Did the Russians find it? Yeah, they saw it on their radar. Was it the middle of the night? Yeah. Did a Russian fighter bomber go up there and try to land, yeah he did. K? Did he get orders to shoot it down? He did! Did he shoot it down? He did! How many people killed? I think it was two hundred and sixty nine. Furor! Okay? U.S. goes to the U.N. The Russians deliberately shot down a civilian aircraft. Now. These half truths are worth a few lies. Did they shoot down a civiian aircraft? Yes, they did. Deliberately? No, they didn't. They thought it was another spy plane, and we know that from the Russian intercepts. Unfortunately, the State Department video guy was only given eight minutes of a sixty minute intercept. And so he constructed this thing where the Russians deliberately shot down a civilian aircraft. Then, ten years later, he writes this book: _Masters of Deceit_ [he means _Warriors of Disinformation_ by Alvin Snyder, which McGovern references in a nearly identical context, on the KAL 007 incident: https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/30/russia-baiting-and-risks-of-nuclear-war/ Amazon link to Snyder's book: https://www.amazon.com/Warriors-Disinformation-Charles-Wick-Videotape/dp/1559703210 Archive link: https://archive.org/details/warriorsofdisinf0000alvi ], he titles it. And he owns up to the fact that when he saw the whole transcript, he realized that this is a terrible mistake, the analogy here, of course, is the Syrian air force making this terrible mistake...[MCGOVERN's phone goes off] in the hitting of the system with the chemical stuff.

STRANAHAN
That's great, Ray, I hear you've got a call. Thanks so much.

MCGOVERN
Well, let me just finish here. What he said was this, the moral is this...he said, from all this, I really was devastated, because I was used. And then he drew this moral. The moral of this story, is this: every nation lies, even our own. When it suits their advantage. The trick is, whoever lies first...wins. That's the moral? Well, in realpolitik, that's the moral. And we saw that in play, yesterday, and today, and tomorrow, to the degree one puts credence into the mainstream media.

STRANAHAN
Thanks a lot, Ray.

MCGOVERN
No problem.