Reactionary "They took our Jobs" debunked

<Boilerplate_> Well....I think just heard my Dad actually supports an Anti-Immigration bill but I could be mistaken but I also heard him in the past that "Mexicans are taking American Jobs"
<dorei> ah, like southpark, they took are jobs
<Boilerplate_> "For Cheap slave labor" he also claims.
<dorei> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik
<GameOver> Title: Southpark - They Took Our Job! - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
<Boilerplate_> I heard about that Southpark skit but ironically though
<Boilerplate_> my Dad hasn't seen that although he sometimes watches South Park
<Boilerplate_> Another problem too, this was reinforced when my Cousin told a story or he claimed that he was layed off and he learned he was replaced by a Mexican as I remember hearing.
<Boilerplate_> Of course that was years ago though
<Boilerplate_> Although I wonder if there's any reponse to this though?
<dorei> here, immigrant only do low level jobs, jobs that locals would never do, still a lot of complain that immigrants took their jobs
<Boilerplate_> I also heard that 'illegal immigration' is falling actually
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<dorei> for me is rather simple, since capital can freely move around the globe, so should the workers
<Boilerplate_> Of course as for Mexico's state though...well what's the reason why immigrants from there come to the United States actually
<Boilerplate_> Since I heard something that Mexico is a "third world country" or something like that
<dorei> a friend of mine lives there
<dorei> she tells me that mexico is the most corrupt place she's ever been at
<Boilerplate_> Well actually I remember my Mother actually went to Mexico and she said there's the only rich who live in behind walled fortresses and the dirt poor
<Boilerplate_> or something like that
<dorei> u can always bribe the cops for offences like smoking weed, etc
<Tjis> jobs are not property. They can not be taken like your wallet. You have a job only as long as an employer is willing to pay you. If you wish to blame anyone for 'taking' 'your' job, it is the employer that should be blamed.
<kilobug> fuzzyhorns: nuit *is* a troll who will just spit hatred out of ignorance towards anything "nerdy", be it computer science, science-fiction, maths, engineering, ... and who will draw pride from being utterly ignorant of he criticizes the most heinously
<Tjis> ##marxism pet troll
<fuzzyhorns> kilobug: they are not only a troll though
<fuzzyhorns> nuit: is very smart about some things
<kilobug> fuzzyhorns: like ?
<Tjis> troll doesn't imply dumbness
<fuzzyhorns> nuit: cultural theory, feminism, race, etc
<Tjis> like not seeing math as an absolute mover of the cosmos
<fuzzyhorns> kilobug:  cultural theory, feminism, race, etc
<Boilerplate_> "Jobs as Property" seems to be embedded into american pychology though as if it goes back to the "self made man" myth perhaps?
<kilobug> fuzzyhorns: I don't remember seeing him speak about those topics, only spit hatred against everything "nerdy"; maybe he did while I wasn't paying attention and it's just bad luck
<Tjis> it is the general pattern of reactionaryness.. Those workers that are more well-off lose their jobs, see the lower classes do the same job they did for less money, therefore blame these workers. This pattern has repeated itself throughout history, throughout all crafts and industries. It is due to a lack of class-consciousness.
<nuit> kilobug: i do remember seeing you speak on those topics
<nuit> sadly, much is left to be desired
<Tjis> the real cause is the pressure on the working class to do the same labor for less and less so that profit can be maintained
<dorei> since unemployment is rising, profit is impossible to maintain
<Tjis> wheee crisis
<Tjis> it is almost as if capitalism isn't really beneficial to us and we should try to replace it with something better
<fuzzyhorns> Tjis: lol
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: how are those two connected to you?
<dorei> fuzzyhorns: the only way for the bourgeoisie to have profit is by exploiting workers, since unemployment is rising, this means that the bourgeoisie exploits fewer workers
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: i dont think thats the only way for them to profit, since i dont think they entirely profit only from pure capitalism
<dorei> when unemployment goes to high, there's no way for the bourgeoisie to reach the previous profits by overexploiting the workers
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: profit has a diminishing tendancy regardless
<dorei> so, is there another way for the bourgoisie to make profits other than exploiting the wokring classes?
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: and when unemployment gets high enough wages go down and businesses reinvest in labor but at a lower cost
<dorei> so, the improved profit margin (due to lower wages) should offset the unemployment
<dorei> right?
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: it could appear to do so
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: i do agree ultimately it is about exploiting more workers
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: but in leaner times one can exploit the current workforce more
<Tjis> there's one more factor - all that stuff that is produced must also be bought back
<Tjis> more people unemployed means less people are able to buy stuff
<Tjis> more production, but less things being sold
<fuzzyhorns> indeed
<dorei> even with 0% unemployment all the stuff that is produced cant be bought back
<dorei> not enough money available for that
<Tjis> eh?
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: hm? whats the basis for that?
<dorei> fuzzyhorns: the profit
<dorei> let me a find a way to phrase it
<dorei> it's something like that: the total sum of wages is less that the total sum of all products' prices, because a product's price is wage + profit
<fuzzyhorns> dorei: that makes more sense