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Mike "Muscles" Murphy's How to Blow Up Minazuki

GreekAngel
Sep 5th, 2014
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  1. Muscles “How to blow up Minazuki”
  2.  
  3. Rekka pressure
  4. [11:53:39 PM | Edited 11:53:43 PM] Mike Muscles: not real
  5. [11:53:47 PM] Mike Muscles: don't let them get away with it
  6.  
  7. 99% of the time if a minazuki does rekka rekka rekka as pressure, they're trash
  8. [11:54:48 PM] Mike Muscles: if they ever do one rekka, double tap back afterwards for a free IB, and after that, even SB rekka cannot punish you if you 2B
  9. [11:55:08 PM] Mike Muscles: If he does third rekka you punish, and most char's 2B catches both forward and backwards airdash after unless it's ass
  10. [11:55:13 PM] Mike Muscles: I'm pretty sure yosuke's is good enough
  11.  
  12. [11:55:31 PM] Mike Muscles: Next level of that is they will try to rekka > knife or rekka > teleport
  13. [11:55:53 PM] Mike Muscles: Rekka knife is a "you're respecting me a lot, so I'm gonna do this for a free pressure reset"
  14. [11:56:08 PM] Mike Muscles: 99% of the time if he's thrown out the knife, it's already to late, UNLESS it's the low knife.
  15. [11:56:29 PM] Mike Muscles: High knife beats late mashers, like "oh he threw out a knife his pressure is over I should mash!" but then he's already recovered
  16. [11:56:41 PM] Mike Muscles: B knife has a lot more recovery, so if he throws a low knife and you block it, 5A that fucker
  17. [11:56:57 PM] Mike Muscles: If you IB it's a pure punish if you block normally he's just minus
  18. [11:57:19 PM] Mike Muscles: Teleport, I've tested this from every single move he has, you'll always be out of blockstun in time to 2B
  19. [11:57:36 PM] Mike Muscles: Online it's probably harder, but 2B is without a doubt the answer to this move
  20. [11:58:32 PM] Mike Muscles: Once you get to the yomi layer of SB teleport, you'll have another level of mix to deal with, but after testing it looks like speifically yosuke 2B only loses to jump afterwards, he can't airdash, air backdash, or jB (his normal options from here)
  21.  
  22. [9/5/2014 11:59:21 PM] Mike Muscles: 5[D], 2D, 2C, j2D, jD
  23. [9/5/2014 11:59:42 PM] Mike Muscles: All of these lose to running forward jump, and all have enough recovery that they can be CH punished fullscreen by ~most~ of the cast
  24. [12:00:13 AM] Mike Muscles: If you ever see him pose like a jojo character and you're already in the air or running, go in
  25. [12:00:36 AM] Mike Muscles: To beat 5[D] and j[D] in the air, you'll want to change vertical planes
  26. [12:00:47 AM] Mike Muscles: Because it starts tracking to the vertical of when he pressed the button
  27. So if you're on the ground jump, if you've already jumped, fall and run
  28. [12:02:07 AM] Mike Muscles: j2D, 2D, and 2C always will go a set distance. I advise learning these distances so you can know when you're in range of these and being careful about laggy moves (yos jD/5D) and instead commiting to low risk options and if you see him go for it run in and punish
  29. Yosuke can EX J2C Minazuki Ds for a punish.
  30. [12:02:40 AM] Mike Muscles: The only fear would be: IF you do not punish him, he has FULL aerial mobility afterwards for jD/j2D
  31. [12:02:51 AM] Mike Muscles: so if he's only jumped once, he can jump jB after he recovers
  32. [12:03:40 AM] Mike Muscles: Some people try to run under and get ready to 2D after, but you have to meet him in the air, once he recovered if you're under him 99% of them will try to use some form of teleport to get out of that situation
  33. Supers:
  34. Wave super:
  35. D super is the reversal super, it comes out fast, but is very punishable, even after he lands
  36. C super, comes out slow, BUT IF HE LANDS IT'S ALMOST LIKELY TOO LATE TO PUNISH
  37. [12:05:43 AM] Mike Muscles: Moonsmasher:
  38. A moonsmasher:
  39. THIS CANNOT BE ROLLED ON REACTION
  40. [12:05:47 AM] Mike Muscles: REPEAT
  41. [12:05:48 AM] Mike Muscles: DO NOT
  42. [12:05:49 AM] Mike Muscles: ROLL
  43. [12:05:49 AM] Mike Muscles: THIS
  44. [12:06:07 AM] Mike Muscles: After the flash it has 2 (yes 2 because why the fuck not) frames, which means the invuln for roll will not have kicked in yet
  45. So unfortunately, you gotta block.
  46. [12:06:40 AM] Mike Muscles: If he has 100 it means a free out, but then he's used 100 meter
  47. [12:06:48 AM] Mike Muscles: What you do is roll the ~second~ part of the super
  48. If it goes to the second part he can no longer rapid
  49. [12:07:02 AM] Mike Muscles: Then roll and hit for a punish
  50. [12:07:20 AM] Mike Muscles: You can also 2B if you're manly as fuck because the second doesn't hit until it hits the ground
  51. [12:07:37 AM] Mike Muscles: B version you can roll on reaction, but it goes much further, and you really don't wanna get CH by this one
  52. [12:07:47 AM] Mike Muscles: SB version cannot be rolled.
  53. startup is A version startup with B version damage and distance
  54. [12:08:37 AM] Mike Muscles: Counter super:
  55. Once minazuki is in awakening, be careful throwing out persona moves, because persona moves do count as physical
  56. [12:08:42 AM] Mike Muscles: And can trigger off your persona
  57. [12:08:54 AM] Mike Muscles: Projectiles beat counter clean
  58. Otherwise, go into training mode and figure out when you can CH it
  59. [12:09:25 AM] Mike Muscles: It's unfortunately P4U2's version of P4A yosuke's dp counter
  60. [12:09:34 AM] Mike Muscles: If you don't know when you can punish, you probably won't get the punish
  61. [12:09:39 AM] Mike Muscles: But the punish window is there.
  62. [12:10:34 AM] Mike Muscles: It's 18 frames, but the animation isn't clear when they start or end
  63. [12:10:56 AM] Mike Muscles: C and D version are different too, but the rule of thumb is that when he starts to lower his swords he's CH state
  64. [12:11:10 AM] Mike Muscles: ALSO, THIS LOSES TO TRUE ~NON ACTIVE~ MEATIES
  65. [12:11:18 AM] Mike Muscles: The counter activates frame 4
  66. [12:11:19 AM] Mike Muscles: Not frame 1
  67. [12:11:35 AM] Mike Muscles: So if your move hits frames 1,2,3 and then stops being active, it'll go through it and you'll be safe
  68. [12:11:51 AM] Mike Muscles: So (not sure on frames) but meaty 2A is probably safe from this
  69. [12:11:58 AM] Mike Muscles: (But then you have to worry about moon smasher)
  70. [12:12:18 AM] Mike Muscles: If minazuki's are afraid of being crossed up they'll probably go for D counter/D wave since they're opposites of eachother
  71. [12:12:28 AM] Mike Muscles: So a crossup either way will get a super
  72. [12:12:42 AM] Mike Muscles: At neutral
  73. [12:12:46 AM] Mike Muscles: jB is good
  74. [12:12:56 AM] Mike Muscles: I'd venture to say it might be his best normal
  75. [12:13:13 AM] Mike Muscles: But the downside is because it's so long/active, once he presses it in the air he's locked into that trajectory until landing
  76. [12:13:23 AM] Mike Muscles: Only exception is SJ rising jB will recover before he lands
  77. The two things I have noticed which beat this is of course:
  78. 2B
  79. [12:14:00 AM] Mike Muscles: But more importantly: crossunders
  80. If a Minazuki does IAD jB he will only get ONE slash
  81. [12:14:19 AM] Mike Muscles: because he will land before the second
  82. [12:14:28 AM] Mike Muscles: So normally they'll do fulljump airdash jB
  83. [12:14:39 AM] Mike Muscles: Which fast characters can run under if they go low enough
  84. [12:15:04 AM] Mike Muscles: Alternative, you can go over it, the hitbox is great going down, but not above.
  85. [12:15:12 AM] Mike Muscles: In order to counter this you'll see many minazuki retreating jump jB
  86. [12:15:42 AM] Mike Muscles: If they're doing this the options are manly dash up 2B, or what has seen better success is dash jump airgrab
  87. [12:16:39 AM] Mike Muscles: This isn't a reaction thing though. You can react to his air movements but not the jB itself. If you try to go in once you see the first jB slash, the second jB slash (which has the much better hitbox) will cover him
  88. [12:16:51 AM] Mike Muscles: Next, 5A
  89. [12:17:08 AM] Mike Muscles: The thing minazuki's don't want you to know is that yes, 5A is amazing reach and a great poke
  90. [12:17:10 AM] Mike Muscles: But
  91. [12:17:31 AM] Mike Muscles: #1, it's startup is trash (9 frames) so his only option to get out of pressure is dp or roll
  92. [12:17:53 AM] Mike Muscles: #2, it's mostly illusory. 5A 5A 5A feels scary, but after that we can't really do much off of it
  93. [12:18:17 AM] Mike Muscles: There's so much distance inbetween us and the opponent that in order to really get anything we'll have to reset pressure
  94. [12:18:27 AM] Mike Muscles: Usually with either airdash jB or dash in
  95. 5B can work, but there is a gap. I've been hit out of max range 5A 5B with aki 2A
  96. [12:19:03 AM] Mike Muscles: Next, strings, 5AA 5B 2B 5C
  97. [12:19:10 AM] Mike Muscles: 2B 5C isn't real, you can dp/super inbetween those
  98. [12:19:16 AM] Mike Muscles: 5B 5C isn't real as well
  99. [12:19:32 AM] Mike Muscles: 5C > rekkas is true blockstun, which is why we want to get there, but until then not so much
  100. [12:20:12 AM] Mike Muscles: Sweep is gapless UNLESS you IB the first hit
  101. [12:20:21 AM] Mike Muscles: in which case you can dp the second hit and we cannot do ANYTHING about it
  102. [12:20:52 AM] Mike Muscles: SPeaking of minazuki v yosuke
  103. [12:20:56 AM] Mike Muscles: Minazuki is weak to crossups
  104. [12:21:18 AM] Mike Muscles: DP loses to crossups, and 2B's hitbox (unless done SUPER early) loses to crossups
  105. [12:21:19 AM] Mike Muscles: Yeah
  106. [12:21:22 AM] Mike Muscles: Especially online
  107. [12:21:32 AM] Mike Muscles: But it's def the right decision
  108. [12:21:55 AM] Mike Muscles: Oh, one more note before sb rekkas
  109. [12:21:57 AM] Mike Muscles: air dp
  110. [12:22:05 AM] Mike Muscles: if done low to the ground only has 15 frames of recovery
  111. [12:22:14 AM] Mike Muscles: if you block it go for 5A punish, you unfortunately can't get much more
  112. [12:22:29 AM] Mike Muscles: SB rekkas
  113. [12:22:34 AM] Mike Muscles: First rekka:
  114. 0 on block
  115. [12:22:42 AM] Mike Muscles: which means it's "yosuke" plus
  116. [12:23:14 AM] Mike Muscles: because fastest normal is 2A which is 7 frames. Fastest special is SB command grab which is 5 but you'll have to dash after SB reakka for it
  117. [12:23:19 AM] Mike Muscles: Second rekka, +7
  118. [12:23:23 AM] Mike Muscles: DO NOT DICK WITH THIS MOVE
  119. [12:23:44 AM] Mike Muscles: If he does this move, it's basically saying "I want to get out and I absolutely do not want to be 2B'd"
  120. [12:24:31 AM] Mike Muscles: Some chars he can SB 2nd rekka and then falling jA and they can't 2B if their 2B's head invuln starts too slowly, I'm not sure about yosuke
  121. [12:24:47 AM] Mike Muscles: 3rd SB rekka
  122. [12:24:51 AM] Mike Muscles: And the most important one IMO
  123. [12:25:16 AM] Mike Muscles: So if you've IB'd the second rekka, and that rekka was B, and you 2B and he does this, you'll both wiff
  124. [12:25:30 AM] Mike Muscles: because he'll land before the hitbox, but your 2B makes you head invuln
  125. [12:25:34 AM] Mike Muscles: weird situation
  126. [12:25:43 AM] Mike Muscles: Most dps can be safe jumped with this but not yosukes
  127. [12:25:57 AM] Mike Muscles: But again, most importantly, if he does 2nd rekka as the A version
  128. [12:26:07 AM] Mike Muscles: (difference between A and B is A only does 1 hit B does 3)
  129. [12:26:11 AM] Mike Muscles: then you will get fataled
  130. [12:26:18 AM] Mike Muscles: And it's one of his BEST starters
  131. [12:26:46 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: [12:24 AM] Mike Muscles:
  132.  
  133. <<< So if you've IB'd the second rekka, and that rekka was B, and you 2B and he does this, you'll both wiff
  134. Unless we're talking lengthy spacing, shouldn't it be more like 'Yosuke's 2B will be blocked'?
  135. [12:27:02 AM] Mike Muscles: Err yeah, sorry
  136. [12:27:15 AM] Mike Muscles: Aki's wiffs for whatever reason
  137. [12:27:20 AM] Mike Muscles: But others he'll just block
  138. [12:28:22 AM] Mike Muscles: Speaking of command grab, there's not much to say
  139. [12:28:24 AM] Mike Muscles: It's good
  140. [12:28:27 AM] Mike Muscles: 8 frames startup
  141. [12:28:30 AM] Mike Muscles: steals hp or meter
  142. [12:28:42 AM] GreekAngel5A: if you are a shadow, he'll go for meter?
  143. [12:28:47 AM] Mike Muscles: Usually
  144. [12:28:50 AM] Mike Muscles: Unless he's really low on hp
  145. [12:29:00 AM] Mike Muscles: But the reward for this midscreen is low
  146. [12:29:12 AM] Mike Muscles: All he can get after is D wave, which does 2.25k I believe
  147. [12:29:17 AM] Mike Muscles: Corner it's reward gets much higher
  148. [12:29:31 AM] Mike Muscles: AoA, please don't get hit by this
  149. [12:29:56 AM] Mike Muscles: Go into training mode, have him do it to you 100 times, figure out when it'll crossup and when it won't (he has to go ~fully~ through you to cross up)
  150. [12:30:04 AM] Mike Muscles: but it's 40 frames startup, and that is ~not~ fast
  151. [12:30:45 AM] Jeff | Pssych: What's the frames on 2A?
  152. [12:30:50 AM] Mike Muscles: Instant kill:
  153. Don't roll it
  154. Just jump
  155. Be careful because it can hit behind him though
  156. But just don't get hit by this
  157. [12:31:04 AM] Mike Muscles: 2A is -1
  158. [12:31:11 AM] Kyle: ^ I learned not to roll the hard way
  159. [12:31:12 AM] Mike Muscles: 7 frame startup
  160. [12:31:31 AM] Mike Muscles: Where to burst:
  161. [12:31:43 AM] Mike Muscles: Grab OMC combo, after the backdash when he does the 2C, burst that move
  162. [12:31:51 AM] Mike Muscles: He can't combo after unless he drops the combo there
  163. [12:32:14 AM] Mike Muscles: Any combo into dp > super
  164. [12:32:21 AM] Mike Muscles: BURST BEFORE THE DP STARTS COMING OUT
  165. [12:32:40 AM] Mike Muscles: if the dp hits you once and you start bursting, C wave WILL go through the burst
  166. [12:32:56 AM] Mike Muscles: 5A also loses to vertical hitboxes
  167. [12:32:59 AM] Mike Muscles: so jC
  168. [12:33:01 AM] Mike Muscles: for yosuke
  169. jB and jA are a lot more risky because they can be caught by extended hands
  170. [12:33:18 AM] Mike Muscles: err, hitboxes
  171. If you're gonna burst what you think will be a dp > super combo, burst inbetween first and second rekkas
  172. but it's 40 frames startup, and that is ~not~ fast
  173. Iirc it's faster in the corner
  174. [12:34:50 AM] Mike Muscles: His AoA? I'm not sure on that but I'll check that out
  175. [12:34:54 AM] Mike Muscles: Maybe because he doesn't go as far?
  176. [12:35:01 AM] Mike Muscles: But either way it's probably still above 30
  177. [12:35:10 AM] Mike Muscles: Also it cannot cross up if you are FULLY in the corner
  178. [12:35:15 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: I think so. I can only go off of videos for now, but it seems noticeably faster in the corner
  179. [12:35:17 AM] Mike Muscles: But his grab ~will~ pull you out of the corner
  180. [12:35:32 AM] Mike Muscles: so grab > AoA is a gimmick that works on most people
  181. [12:35:35 AM] Mike Muscles: in corner
  182. [12:36:01 AM] Mike Muscles: Bursting whenever a teleport is coming is dangerous because a teleport can autobait a burst, if you're gonna get hit by any D move then you wanna burst that move immediately before you get too high up
  183. [12:36:16 AM] Mike Muscles: If you burst low to the ground and he still teleports you can actually punish him here
  184. [12:36:22 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: There is no way to manually decide whether his AoA crosses up, correct?
  185. [12:36:30 AM] Mike Muscles: Only distance decides
  186. [12:36:44 AM] Mike Muscles: So learning the distance it will and will not cross up is fairly important
  187. [12:36:50 AM] Mike Muscles: But if you do you can crush him
  188. [12:36:55 AM] Mike Muscles: if they rely on it
  189. [12:37:04 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: Is it Fatal Recovery?
  190. [12:37:13 AM] Mike Muscles: Unfortunately no, it should be, but it's not
  191. [12:37:15 AM] Mike Muscles: Sho's is
  192. [12:37:28 AM] Mike Muscles: But it does have 38 frames of recovery
  193. [12:37:38 AM] Mike Muscles: so if you do block it you usually can do whatever you want
  194. [12:37:46 AM] Mike Muscles: If you're gonna get hit by it, get air hit
  195. [12:37:51 AM] Mike Muscles: his return off air AoA is trash
  196. [12:38:15 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: Air hit AoA is trash for everybody now
  197. [12:38:19 AM] Mike Muscles: next, during pressure, hold down back until you're 99% sure of a gap
  198. [12:38:28 AM] Mike Muscles: He has no highs on the ground that should hit you
  199. [12:39:00 AM] Mike Muscles: 99% will come from 5B1, 5B2, 2B1, 2B2, and some form of jump cancel there, which are all beat by dash 2B
  200. [12:39:28 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: Does Minazuki have any method of fastfall 2A like Sho? Guessing SB Rekka
  201. [12:39:31 AM] Mike Muscles: Also if they see you standing most will try to early cancel into sweep
  202. [12:39:45 AM] Mike Muscles: He cannot SB air rekka without doing the other two rekkas first, unlike Sho
  203. [12:39:50 AM] Mike Muscles: His rekkas are true rekkas
  204. [12:40:00 AM] Mike Muscles: He can't go backwards or start from the second or third
  205. [12:40:21 AM] Mike Muscles: If he wants to do tricky 2A stuff, it'll be off SB teleport, or off his safejumps
  206. [12:40:32 AM] Mike Muscles: His safejumps are off sweep, grab, and teleport ender
  207. [12:40:46 AM] Mike Muscles: If you respect the safejump, he can then go for airdash jB or empty 2A
  208. [12:40:48 AM] Mike Muscles: Yeah
  209. [12:41:07 AM] Mike Muscles: So if you ever get knocked down by teleport, sweep, or grab
  210. [12:41:09 AM] Mike Muscles: Late tech
  211. [12:41:20 AM] Mike Muscles: Late tech ~crushes~ those options
  212. [12:41:32 AM] Mike Muscles: late tech in general is actually pretty tough for minazuki to deal with
  213. [12:41:42 AM] Mike Muscles: Especially mashy ones
  214. [12:41:49 AM] Mike Muscles: Because they'll get impatient
  215. [12:41:59 AM] Mike Muscles: And start mashing 5A or something on your wakeup
  216. [12:42:03 AM] Mike Muscles: which can be reversaled somehow
  217. [12:42:06 AM] Mike Muscles: or mistime their meaty
  218. or mistime their meaty
  219. [12:42:23 AM] Mike Muscles: Also, I found out why jA is so godlike vs yosuke jD
  220. [12:42:26 AM] Mike Muscles: it's active for 7 frames
  221. [12:42:34 AM] Mike Muscles: Reward off it is shit
  222. [12:42:43 AM] Mike Muscles: But holy crap if it isn't good at stopping approaches
  223. [12:43:02 AM] Mike Muscles: If his 5B or 2B wiffs, they're both in recovery for 20 frames
  224. [12:43:16 AM] Mike Muscles: So you can feasibly punish at certain ranges
  225. [12:43:56 AM] Mike Muscles: Also, burst management is incredibly important in this matchup
  226. [12:44:03 AM] Mike Muscles: Not bursting into awakening is usually a fatal mistake
  227. [12:44:21 AM] Mike Muscles: If he has 50 meter ~or~ burst, he can kill through awakening with a 5A
  228. [12:44:59 AM] Mike Muscles: But his high low mixup only exists if you respect it, otherwise it's grab/grab bait
  229. [12:45:09 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: [12:41 AM] Mike Muscles:
  230.  
  231. <<< it's active for 7 frames
  232. This sounds grossly familiar...
  233. [12:45:18 AM] Mike Muscles: He's a lot of smoke and mirrors, but they're good smoke and mirrors
  234. [12:45:39 AM] Mike Muscles: patience usually will make minazukis get frustrated and try for something risking like command grab
  235. [12:45:41 AM] Mike Muscles: or teleport
  236. [12:45:56 AM] Mike Muscles: But most minazuki will just let you hang themselves on their 5A
  237. [12:46:55 AM] ちちんぷいぷいっ: 7f jA. I remember now.
  238. https://twitter.com/Omecross/status/449345559459926016/photo/1
  239. [12:48:29 AM] Mike Muscles: I think that's most of minazuki. In summary, fatal his teleports, go under or over his jBs, his mixup is mostly making you scared in his pressure then grab/grab tech stuff and go into training mode and learn punishes for his supers, AoA, teleport, and if they try to rekka pressure
  240. [12:48:37 AM] Mike Muscles: and that should free you from most trash minazukis
  241. [12:48:38 AM] Mike Muscles: IMO
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