loftar mid-late 2013 dev info

2013 November 10
(11:58:28) <loftar> Well, as you may know, Hostile, Jorb and I are busy rewriting Haven.
(11:58:38) <loftar> I expect the next "world reset" in Haven to be when we replace it with the rewrite.
(11:58:51) <loftar> If nothing else comes in the way and we have to do a reset for the current Haven, that is.
(12:04:26) <Hostile> aha, let me put it another way
(12:04:50) <Hostile> could you take a wild guess about the amount of time needed to rewrite Haven?
(12:05:08) <loftar> Not really :)
(12:05:17) <Hostile> :<
(12:07:33) <Hostile> thanks anyway :3 gl with rewriting and I hope you finish it sometime soon
(12:09:21) <loftar> Thanks :)
(12:09:49) <loftar> If anything, I think it's safe to say that Salem will see a major update before Haven becomes playable, so look for it as a milestone. ;)
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(13:25:02) <loftar> Well, if it makes you feel better, I think I can guarantee that its beehives won't have the same problems. ;)
(13:25:26) <Tonky> oh good to hear that :3
(13:25:53) * Schro has joined #haven
(13:25:58) <Tonky> how can you be so sure as to guarantee it?
(13:27:04) <loftar> Well, almost all those silly little problems are just the result of early implementations, when I wasn't sure how to use all the systems properly.
(13:27:12) <loftar> The tanning tub bug is another prominent example.
(13:27:25) <Tonky> right
(13:27:56) <Tonky> so we will see when you finish coding the haven 2?
(13:28:37) <Tonky> its just silly that you want an alt logged in to gain better quality wax, you know?
(13:29:00) <loftar> Well, a project like Haven is never "finished", if that's what you mean. :)


by loftar » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:34 am
It has already been mentioned at some length here. To summarize somewhat, I don't think it's any secret that there's both one or two things that are kinda wrong with the current version of Haven (personal beliefs, the vomiting/diarrhea/whatwillyou aspects of eating, the farming mechanics, various aspects of curiosities & LP, AI, &c&c&c), so when I'm going to rewrite the server infrastructure anyway, we're going to revisit mostly everything and replace it wherever we feel it beneficial, while staying true to our original vision of the game (which may or may not match your vision of the game). Read more in the linked post.

2013 October 27
(09:37:58) <loftar> Hm? Did Jorb tell you I moved? :)
(09:38:12) <Tonky> yup :)
(09:38:32) <loftar> I see. Well, it's quite fine so far, though I can't say I've settled in yet.
(09:38:48) <Tonky> still organizing stuff at new place?
(09:38:52) <loftar> As for Jorb, he's probably immersed doing something for the new Haven. :)
(09:39:01) <loftar> As I am most of the time. :)
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(09:39:35) <Rehpic> Does Jorb program in C/Java or is do you guys have a higher level design language?
(09:39:47) <loftar> Jorb doesn't program. ;)
(09:39:50) <loftar> Only I do.
(09:39:58) <loftar> And yes, it's C for the server and Java for the client.
(09:40:02) <Tonky> jorb scripts, right?
(09:40:23) <loftar> Well, there isn't really any "script language". To the extent that he does that, he writes C code.
(09:40:34) <loftar> Mostly following patterns that I've established.
(09:40:46) <Rehpic> does he have data files to define the design of elements of the game?
(09:40:48) <Tonky> you should teach him moar :p
(09:41:05) <loftar> Not to any great extent.
(09:41:09) <loftar> There is some data in the resources, of course.
(09:41:30) <loftar> But they don't relate to any mechanics, since they're mostly used client-side.
(09:41:38) <Rehpic> so how does he "do stuff for the new haven"?
(09:41:54) <loftar> Well, you know, he draws tilesets and objects and stuff.
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(09:43:37) <loftar> As Jorb says in www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31289&p=406178#p406178 , "We wish to paint more vivid and varied pictures of nature in general." :)
(09:43:44) <loftar> So that would include new art. :)


2013 October 26
(06:32:01) <loftar> There is progress, for sure.
(06:32:11) <loftar> I'm not sure just what I should say about it, though.
(06:32:25) <Alg> hmm
(06:32:27) <loftar> As I just posted on the forums, it's a bit like having travelled five years into the past. :)
(06:32:37) <loftar> We have a player walking around and are pretty happy with just that. :)
(06:33:02) <Alg> thats progress
(06:33:26) <Alg> please tell me the client will preform better then the current one
(06:33:51) <claeyyy> no custom clients pls
(06:33:55) <Ella> O_O
(06:33:57) <claeyyy> everyone should be equal
(06:34:07) <loftar> Haven't we been over this?
(06:34:11) <Alg> its not possible
(06:34:18) <loftar> There's no way we could prevent custom clients even if we wanted to.
(06:34:19) <Alg> if someone wants to mod a client
(06:34:22) <Alg> they will
(06:34:31) <Ella> but
(06:34:37) <claeyyy> okay, but make sure people don't start to make script engines
(06:34:38) <claeyyy> for bots
(06:34:46) <Alg> yet again
(06:34:46) <loftar> Also, I think there is a fair and reasonable scope for custom clients. There's no one-size-fits-all UI.
(06:35:04) <Ella> i think custom clients arent a problem
(06:35:13) <claeyyy> but bots are :)
(06:35:23) <loftar> Sure, but that's *mostly* because the game mechanics suck.
(06:35:32) <loftar> I fully understand, really, that people bot farming, because farming sucks.
(06:35:48) <claeyyy> Farming is okay, but botting bluebells all day long?
(06:35:52) <loftar> Doesn't mean I like it, of course, but it kinda is what it is.
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(06:38:24) <loftar> Well, I agree that it sucks, but the root of the problem is the mechanics.
(06:38:39) <Alg> bluebells wilt
(06:38:44) <Alg> in b4 secret patch
(06:38:53) <Ella> make curios decay =P
(06:39:01) <loftar> Certainly, that's one option.
(06:39:12) <claeyyy> well, the bots are okay, but forage bots - not
(06:39:16) <loftar> We do have a few ideas stored up that we plan to explore, however.
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(06:40:17) <loftar> Arguably, one of the basic problems is that the world is far too lenient.
(06:40:31) <Alg> time to go ban people botting loftar
(06:40:32) <loftar> It shouldn't really be possible to have a dumb bot running around in the wilderness without dying.
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(06:42:45) <Ella> or get some kind of debuff when on a swamp tile that causes damage every time the char moves?
(06:42:47) <Ella> oh i dunno
(06:42:54) <Ella> i know nothing about this sort of thing
(06:43:53) <Alg> nothing can really be done
(06:44:04) <loftar> There are tons of things that could possibly be done. :)
(06:44:08) <Alg> the mechanics just make the game inheritantly bottable
(06:44:15) <loftar> Though not in the current Haven.


2013 September 19-21~
(19:25:35) <Tonky_> ah have you been back to school, loftar?
(19:26:12) <loftar> No, not yet, Tonky. I'm considering doing that one of these weeks, however.
(19:27:33) <Tonky_> once you start school, we will be missing you more here i guess? :/
(19:27:50) <loftar> Nah, I've never let school take up any majority of my time. ^^
(19:28:12) <Tonky_> cool :) just receive the receipt of your time investment
(19:28:21) <Tonky_> (degree)
(19:29:04) <loftar> Well, I don't *really* think I need it; it's the norm in the CS departments for students not to graduate. ;)
(19:29:11) <loftar> They usually get jobs before graduation. :)
(19:29:30) <loftar> Which is a problem for Swedish universities, since they get paid by the state only when students to graduate. ^^
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(20:33:40) <Colesie> So how has haven 2.0 been coming?
(20:33:53) <Colesie> Still doing backend stuff for months?
(20:34:28) <Colesie> And do you have any ideas for possible changes you'd like to add along the way
(20:34:50) <loftar> Well, we've been playing with it, but I'll have to admit I'm still trying to wrap my head around everything.
(20:35:00) <loftar> It's beginning to feel a bit large with three different codebases swinging around.
(20:35:51) <Colesie> 3 being salem, current haven and haven 2.0?
(20:35:54) <loftar> Yeah
(20:36:03) <Colesie> Understandable lol
(20:36:21) <loftar> Then again, I've been playing a whole lot of catchup, as well. Perhaps that might be drawing to a close now that I've replaced both the forum and website.
(20:36:26) <Colesie> Must be hard to switch between games and think based on the different mechanics in each
(20:36:33) <loftar> And with the latest Salem client developments that I've been irking for literally years to do.
(20:36:40) <loftar> Yes, quite. :)
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(20:53:06) <loftar> Meh. There's a large part of me that doesn't care a whole lot about the game experience of you guys running around playing world domination. ^^
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(20:55:40) <loftar> Well, tea canisters would be nice. Unfortunately, this is Haven, and there's no good way to handle substances.
(20:55:46) <loftar> This is one of the reasons for rewriting it.
(20:56:00) <Colesie> seedbag type item for storing silk filaments?
(20:56:22) <loftar> Well, to be honest, the sheer amount of items that might result in worries me slightly.



2013 August 15
(21:06:48) <Dickson> waht kind of stuff are you guys currently working on?
(21:07:34) <loftar> Well, rewriting Haven is the main project.
(21:07:41) <nightfly> loftar: Thank you, and thanks for making such a unique game
(21:07:45) <loftar> But I've spent most of my time just cleaning up code and stuff like that.
(21:08:31) <Dickson> lol are u going to abandon salem?
(21:08:50) <loftar> No, of course not; but we still haven't managed to think of how to fix the gluttony system.
(21:09:03) <loftar> And before we've done that, most everything else seems a bit pointless.
(21:09:25) <ChildhoodObesity> loftar m8 do you have any plans 2 change the combat system at all
(21:09:49) <loftar> In Haven? Salem?
(21:09:56) <ChildhoodObesity> haven
(21:10:26) <loftar> That depends on what you mean. When we rewrite Haven, I'm sure the combat system will turn out different. :)
(21:11:12) <ChildhoodObesity> CooL
(21:11:42) <Dickson> well the haven system is awesome, maybe u can just turn salem into a 3d haven
(21:11:57) <ChildhoodObesity> lol
(21:11:57) <Seizure> Are you kind of suspending adding anything to the game until the rewrite is all wrapped up?
(21:12:02) <Dickson> or just use the same features for the food system and stuff
(21:12:46) <loftar> Not necessarily, Seizure, but we probably won't be making any *larger* changes, at least.
(21:12:52) <loftar> That would seem a bit wasteful.
(21:14:10) <Seizure> Yeah, I figured as much. Good to know we might at least get a few additions to spice things up, even if they are 'small'
(21:15:45) <Colesie> Hey loftar
(21:15:48) <Colesie> How's it going lol
(21:15:59) <Seizure> I was a little afraid of, because of the rewrite, nothing might be added in to the game because of possible incombatabilities
(21:16:04) <loftar> Well, ya know, lol, I've just expounded on that. ^^
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(21:19:10) <Seizure> wait... Is Haven 2.0 a seperate game all together? or am I just reading too much into that? xD
(21:21:06) <loftar> Well, I guess that's a matter of definition. I (and Jorb) consider it the natural evolution of Haven, but since it's a rewrite of all the content, it's not like you couldn't argue that it's a new game. :)
(21:21:38) <loftar> I don't consider it a separate game, though.
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(21:29:15) <Oddity> (21:21:48) <Colesie> Please keep a backup of haven as it is in w6 <-- And W3
(21:30:42) <loftar> Well, everything is in Git. If I wanted to, I could run the version where you could only cut down trees and pick up the log to your inventory.