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- [5/1/2014 12:00:08 AM] bo.elder: Guys, I'm about to turn into a pumpkin, but I look forward to reading the scrollback manana...
- [5/1/2014 12:00:13 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ok. I'd like to see this alliance focus on the things that made gents the most fun. Back in stain when we fought out numbered and out gunned. We were effective, had a huge amount of fun, and were vital to the overall effort without being in the huge blobs. I'd like to see this alliance ficus on that kind of skirmish activities. Not elite pvp. Just focus on disruption, quick reaction, highly mobile.
- [5/1/2014 12:00:46 AM] Siggon.k: from what we've seen in gsf, the corps that have a strong corp identity do much better than those without. well, corp identity coupled with active leadership.
- [5/1/2014 12:01:20 AM] Siggon.k: however, the alliance itself is way too big to have any singular identity, hence my oft repeated goons in space thing
- [5/1/2014 12:02:20 AM] Siggon.k: so something like what you suggest could easily be a thing, a highly mobile thing that we can deploy to hotspots
- [5/1/2014 12:02:31 AM] Siggon.k: that's actually something we could really use
- [5/1/2014 12:02:36 AM] Siggon.k: as an aside
- [5/1/2014 12:02:50 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Yes.
- [5/1/2014 12:03:23 AM] Siggon.k: the weird thing about identity is that it can scale. like you can be a gsf member, and a blackops guy, and an eg guy. all have totally different identities
- [5/1/2014 12:03:43 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Even operate mostly deployed. Moving from Don to region. Looking for fight s or helping control or suppress activity
- [5/1/2014 12:03:52 AM] Siggon.k: but at the end of the day, you're flying with people you like and leadership you respect
- [5/1/2014 12:04:06 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: *region to region
- [5/1/2014 12:04:26 AM] Siggon.k: going back to that aside, I'd kill to have a competent fast reaction force right now
- [5/1/2014 12:06:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: :) I think about 6 corps represented here would be very interested in that
- [5/1/2014 12:06:17 AM] Nova Rain: Personally, I think "nullsec PvP without the hassle" is one of the better selling points and identity pillars for this new alliance. It's fairly close to unironically being free from the shackles of sov from how you're descriving it.
- [5/1/2014 12:06:35 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Also agreed
- [5/1/2014 12:06:48 AM] Siggon.k: nullsec pvp without the hassle
- [5/1/2014 12:06:54 AM] Siggon.k: huh
- [5/1/2014 12:06:59 AM] Siggon.k: yeah, it could work
- [5/1/2014 12:07:58 AM] Siggon.k: I have to go to sleep because I'm getting angry glares from the wife, but if you guys kick it around and see what you think of it, I'll catch up on it in the morning
- [5/1/2014 12:13:03 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: K. I just got to work
- [5/1/2014 12:13:58 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Is there anyone else we want to bring into this discussion? Li3 guys?
- [5/1/2014 6:20:15 AM] Gigaplex: Ah i see, the US-TZ is much more active here then EU :)
- The question of the culture of the alliance is something, that is decided mostly by the line members, because leadership has only a little impact on the day-to-day behaviour of the members.
- Every time a new Corp joins the alliance it will bring it's own culture in the alliance and will change it own culture and the culture of the alliance a little over time.
- [5/1/2014 6:29:12 AM] Gigaplex: so the culture question will be a questions that has to be solved in the day to day live.
- The GENTS culture in this current form won't survive entirely in the new alliance but will have a big impact on the new alliance
- [5/1/2014 7:29:32 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I think part of what I'm pushing for in some respect is a clear identity that is distinct from GSF. There are lots of people who are happy to fight with the CFC, while not being part of the GSF. If the alliance is to be just an extension of the GSF, there are many people who will have reservations about being in the alliance. For better or worse, GSF is very polarizing (P0LRizing - gosh Kesper would be proud) and while some are content to fight for the CFC, being more closely identified as a Goon might be more than some are willing to accept. Given that this alliance is to in some case play safety net for corps that get disenfranchised from other non-GSF alliances, it might be worthwhile to make certain that we identify that this alliance is distinct from the GSF. I don't know that I understand psychology enough to know exactly how to accomplish that difference in perception, but I think its a piece of the puzzle that needs to be addressed at some point.
- [5/1/2014 7:29:53 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: back to what the alliance can and should do on a day to day basis.
- [5/1/2014 7:30:31 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Since most corps are tied strongly to their space for infrastructure purposes, it limits the ability to be really flexible with deployments and such
- [5/1/2014 7:31:15 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: if we can focus this alliance on being the QRF for the CFC, and sell the fact that we are PVP without the anchor of sov Maintenance, that is something that is going to be really appealing to many people
- [5/1/2014 7:31:22 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: not just small gang activity
- [5/1/2014 7:32:50 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: but effective, skirmish force that can react and deploy independently of the CFC as a whole to be used as a distraction force, second front, rear guard, advance force, or any other of a number of force projection devices.
- [5/1/2014 7:34:17 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: While not deployed, the alliance could focus on group cohesion, operating in low sec or other areas, either trying to destabilize an area for a larger action, or just out pushing buttons to get a reaction.
- [5/1/2014 7:35:23 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: SOme of the members may want to fly in blue space and guard the low sec entrances like P3EN, and E-O, but I think we can structure the alliance to give it quitr a bit more activity than simply gate camps and blue space roaming
- [5/1/2014 7:35:51 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we'll need a core of active and independent FCs
- [5/1/2014 7:36:37 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Than was something we developed a bit in GENTS, but never got them fully independent or active enough to get fleet activity on a daily basis.
- [5/1/2014 7:36:51 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: But I think that was more a function of our space, than the FCs
- [5/1/2014 7:37:37 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: If we are deployed, and independent, the activity is generated by the FCs. since we would spend more time in hostile areas than in blue areas, or in border areas.
- [5/1/2014 7:37:48 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: still, a strong FC core is going to be key
- [5/1/2014 7:38:17 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: FLexible doctrines are also going to be helpful.
- [5/1/2014 7:38:56 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: one of the strengths of the GETNS doctrines was their ability to fight outclassed to some degree. THat is an aspect I'd like to see perpetuated in this allaince
- [5/1/2014 7:39:38 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I'm not advocating either the number of doctrines or the frequency that we might have changed them, but the overall concepts were sound, even if they were numerous.
- [5/1/2014 7:41:28 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: By pulling initially from GENTS and Li3, plus other faltering alliances (and even from GSF itself, if there were corps that were interested in getting some physical distance from the GSF machine and culture) we'd have a decent sized force that spans at least 2 TZs effectively
- [5/1/2014 7:41:45 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: maybe on the order of 1000 - 1250 chars to start?
- [5/1/2014 7:41:54 AM] Symbiotes: ^ I like a lot of what I read above, though I would caution about having no sov at all, some sov is really handy for those of us doing industry to try and support our corporations
- [5/1/2014 7:42:14 AM] Gigaplex: and sov is important to have a reason to fight for
- [5/1/2014 7:42:32 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: in any case, we need to begin to flesh this stuff out if we want to give people a reason to stick around and wait for this to get going.
- [5/1/2014 7:42:40 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Sym - sov will be necessary
- [5/1/2014 7:42:52 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: PI and tower farms will need it
- [5/1/2014 7:43:11 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: but the overall footprint will be very small compared to other alliances.
- [5/1/2014 7:43:24 AM] Gigaplex: if the CFC gets under pressure, why should i take full effort to fight for it, when i don't have my own home under attack
- [5/1/2014 7:43:34 AM] Symbiotes: I like the idea of a small footprint
- [5/1/2014 7:43:44 AM] Symbiotes: and rapid deployments
- [5/1/2014 7:43:47 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: just enough owned sov to allow the farms and PI folks to do what they need, and enough space for the supercap folks to build
- [5/1/2014 7:43:47 AM] Gigaplex: that's my main concern why we must have sov
- [5/1/2014 7:43:50 AM] Symbiotes: thats something I always liked about our past
- [5/1/2014 7:44:42 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I think this is an opportunity for a bit of a pivot away from the concept of "this is my home"
- [5/1/2014 7:44:56 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: We'd be fighting for the CFC as an entity
- [5/1/2014 7:45:03 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: not so much for the space we occupy
- [5/1/2014 7:45:12 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: since we might be in a lot of different places
- [5/1/2014 7:45:20 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: again - just thinking out loud
- [5/1/2014 7:45:26 AM] Gigaplex: i don't think, that this will work in the long term to motivate people
- [5/1/2014 7:46:22 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: the problem with home space is that it gets awfully quiet
- [5/1/2014 7:46:24 AM] Symbiotes: worked for the longest time for gents, until we got lazy and complacent in vale, having too much sov and being too spread out
- [5/1/2014 7:46:35 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and then its really hard to get people to be active again
- [5/1/2014 7:46:44 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: ^^
- [5/1/2014 7:46:58 AM] Symbiotes: branch wasn't ideal, but at least everyone was close together so that mitigated some of it
- [5/1/2014 7:47:39 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: if we spent a lot of time deployed we'd most certainly be concentrated in a very small area
- [5/1/2014 7:48:04 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: the concepts of multiple alts for scouting, and effective well flown fleet comps rally matters
- [5/1/2014 7:48:05 AM] Symbiotes: I also believe that living more together can help develop a shared culture better
- [5/1/2014 7:48:12 AM] Symbiotes: and influence our overall quality
- [5/1/2014 7:48:17 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: agreed
- [5/1/2014 7:48:20 AM] Symbiotes: because people will more easily be able to support each other
- [5/1/2014 7:48:32 AM] Symbiotes: and our good guys might get more people on their training lessons and fleets ;)
- [5/1/2014 7:48:43 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: gigaplex - not sure who you are - are you a GENT?
- [5/1/2014 7:49:46 AM] Symbiotes: yeah Giga is Kim
- [5/1/2014 7:49:53 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: ahh - kk
- [5/1/2014 7:50:12 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: man this separate coms is tough - lol
- [5/1/2014 7:51:12 AM] Symbiotes: ^^ but the record of discussion helps, prevents some double stuff maybe and makes sure none of us miss out on anything important, gotta get a good feel about where this is heading
- [5/1/2014 7:52:44 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: yes - I logged in on my computer and go the entire back log - which is nice
- [5/1/2014 7:53:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I use my phone a lot - but clearly typing is better for getting out more complex thoughts
- [5/1/2014 7:53:36 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: in any case - I'd like to move the discussion to start to pinpoint the things we want to be able to do, and how we want to do them
- [5/1/2014 7:53:39 AM] Gigaplex: yeah i have to get used to Skype as com, too :)
- [5/1/2014 7:57:06 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: if we get a say in the footprint, I'd vote for 3 constellations max, and maybe just 2. Building off of the GENTS locations, the constellation with TVN- would be my first choice, and recognizing that the Indy guys need secure space and easy access to HS, I thing the N-H pocket also makes sense to have
- [5/1/2014 7:57:46 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: if we had a 3rd, depending on how large the alliance actually is - then I'd add the MY- pocket.
- [5/1/2014 7:58:18 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: but i'd forgo the lower pocket, and the systems further east.
- [5/1/2014 7:59:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that keeps us focused on the pipes in and out of vale, and give the indy guys decent space to do their thing, Ice, roids, and couple fo dead end systems to use
- [5/1/2014 7:59:38 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: TVN- still is the natural choke point, so it makes sense to keep that as the alliance HQ
- [5/1/2014 8:00:11 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that would mean that P3 would need to be alliance space as well - for the JB to work
- [5/1/2014 8:02:51 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: so - that would be the 5yHF constellation and the BUG6- constellation
- [5/1/2014 8:36:50 AM | Edited 8:37:04 AM] Endie H: Chance, you can rename people to appear as whatever you like on skype
- [5/1/2014 8:37:22 AM] Endie H: On the left of the window, in the contacts list, right click and choose "rename"
- [5/1/2014 8:40:59 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ahh. Cool
- [5/1/2014 8:43:57 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Hmm not on phone i guess. But I'll look when ii Hey back to computer
- [5/1/2014 8:45:31 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Endie any thoughts on who the lead corp will be?
- [5/1/2014 8:48:16 AM] Siggon.k: lead corp?
- [5/1/2014 8:49:05 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Founding corp. Sov holder. Executor corp.
- [5/1/2014 8:49:14 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Not sure the correct term
- [5/1/2014 8:50:10 AM] Gigaplex: I think it will be [Insert Alliance Name here] Holding / Exec etc.
- [5/1/2014 8:50:39 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ahh freshly minted corp
- [5/1/2014 8:50:59 AM] Siggon.k: yeah, holding corp of some kind
- [5/1/2014 8:52:48 AM] Symbiotes: I doubt it will be the same as it was in gents with prax being the main corp and caretaker of sov for most of our run while Kesper ran the outposts-holding executor corp
- [5/1/2014 8:52:57 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Are there other people who want to include in the conversation ? As in other corp directors. Or do we want to just keep it as CEOs at the moment.
- [5/1/2014 8:53:17 AM] Symbiotes: I think we're missing plenty of CEO's
- [5/1/2014 8:53:38 AM] Symbiotes: might want to get reps from each corp that is considering the meta alliance
- [5/1/2014 8:53:41 AM] Siggon.k: just ceo's, though you're welcome to pass on information to your director guys and solicit their input
- [5/1/2014 8:53:53 AM] Symbiotes: imho doesn't have to be a ceo char, if a director can speak for them and has more time to talk with us
- [5/1/2014 8:54:08 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: We invited everybody on the first day
- [5/1/2014 8:54:42 AM] Siggon.k: the ones I know we're missing is zebr (who I can't get ahold of) and f-s-j (who are definitely going to tnt)
- [5/1/2014 8:55:17 AM] Siggon.k: if there's any other corps I missed, let me know so I can add them in
- [5/1/2014 8:56:52 AM] Endie H: Yeah the chances of the holding corp being a pre-2009-chic actualy corp with people in it are pretty low
- [5/1/2014 9:02:39 AM] Symbiotes: lets see... I see prax p0lr snre arma ohcrp farsc
- [5/1/2014 9:02:53 AM] Symbiotes: I think Bo represents empin, but not sure on that one
- [5/1/2014 9:02:58 AM] Symbiotes: confusing names nd all ^^
- [5/1/2014 9:03:05 AM] Gigaplex: i try to get ZEBR in here
- [5/1/2014 9:03:10 AM] Symbiotes: I don't see kazo or tfn..
- [5/1/2014 9:03:34 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Zebr and kazoo are off to tnt.
- [5/1/2014 9:03:38 AM] Symbiotes: nor airk tetic ybox or boin4
- [5/1/2014 9:03:54 AM] Gigaplex: maybe they didn't get the ping?
- [5/1/2014 9:04:13 AM] Siggon.k: zebr is planning on staying, I just can't get in contact with their ceo guy
- [5/1/2014 9:04:21 AM] Symbiotes: might be good to do another ping to dapper in that case
- [5/1/2014 9:04:33 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Locii is their CEO
- [5/1/2014 9:04:38 AM] Gigaplex: sometimes i don't get all pings in the backlog
- [5/1/2014 9:05:01 AM] Gigaplex: or overread one when there are many many pings
- [5/1/2014 9:05:08 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I know ybox wants to come
- [5/1/2014 9:05:13 AM] Gigaplex: like towers crying
- [5/1/2014 9:05:31 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ok. I can send a new ping.
- [5/1/2014 9:05:56 AM] Siggon.k: I keep missing locii, and he's busy with real life it sounds like
- [5/1/2014 9:06:20 AM] Gigaplex: maybe we should habe Tash Murka then instead of locii if locii is busy?
- [5/1/2014 9:08:38 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ping dapper if you are a CEO and have not contacted sion to be included in the ongoing discussion regarding the new alliance, please pm him on jabber for invite.
- OK by you?
- [5/1/2014 9:08:53 AM] Gigaplex: ok
- [5/1/2014 9:09:31 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Do we have a prax rep?
- [5/1/2014 9:09:56 AM] Symbiotes: yeah Michael is here at times, I think
- [5/1/2014 9:10:18 AM] Symbiotes: oh and I missed Attoy completely, hiding in the top of the list
- [5/1/2014 9:10:22 AM] Symbiotes: so ybox is represent
- [5/1/2014 9:10:48 AM] Siggon.k: lake is still non-responsive, so oceansea was added in in his stead
- [5/1/2014 9:11:04 AM] Siggon.k: though I don't anticipate prax will join this new thing either
- [5/1/2014 9:11:36 AM] Siggon.k: could have sworn we had a kazo guy in here hrm
- [5/1/2014 9:12:19 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: New ping sent just in case. I thought we had most everyone
- [5/1/2014 9:12:41 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Any thoughts on my wall of texts?
- [5/1/2014 9:12:45 AM] Gigaplex: yeah the different names make things confusing
- [5/1/2014 9:13:03 AM] Gigaplex: do we have any LI3 Guy in here?
- [5/1/2014 9:13:24 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: No li3. That I know of
- [5/1/2014 9:13:31 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I asked yest
- [5/1/2014 9:16:26 AM] Siggon.k: li3 probably doesn't know anything about this other than rumors
- [5/1/2014 9:16:43 AM] Siggon.k: none of that has been worked on at all, still very much up in the air
- [5/1/2014 9:18:34 AM] Symbiotes: have mixed feelings on including them here and now, reaching consensus with these two parties might be easier before we try and add another party, yet I also feel that anyone likely to be included in this project might want to have some influence or at least the ability to field questions/suggestions
- [5/1/2014 9:18:41 AM] Gigaplex: ah ok, i understood that LI3 is collapsing right now. Then it was my mistake
- [5/1/2014 9:20:44 AM] Siggon.k: if it makes you feel any better, there's no expectation that there will be any kind of consensus on this
- [5/1/2014 9:21:01 AM] Siggon.k: one of the benefits of autocracy
- [5/1/2014 9:21:51 AM] Siggon.k: I don't see a lot of discussion about nova's nullsec pvp without the hassle idea in scrollback
- [5/1/2014 9:22:28 AM] Symbiotes: I'm hoping there's going to be consensus between you guys as our new leaders, wouldn't dare suggesting I have to agree for it to be ok ;)
- [5/1/2014 9:22:46 AM] Symbiotes: I think most of us are interested in a sleek agile form of alliance
- [5/1/2014 9:23:09 AM] Symbiotes: but the exact implementation of that is where it gets harder I guess
- [5/1/2014 9:24:25 AM] Symbiotes: a balance of how much sov, what services we can leech off gsol heroes etc.
- [5/1/2014 9:24:44 AM] Siggon.k: what do you think about building it around an idea of 'nullsec pvp without the hassle'?
- [5/1/2014 9:26:12 AM] Symbiotes: I like that, as long as people like me that are more industrially focused have the options to support our corporations with that part ;)
- [5/1/2014 9:26:19 AM] Symbiotes: I think as a marketing idea it would definitely work
- [5/1/2014 9:26:37 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I discussed this earlier, and with my corp, its the concept they like the most
- [5/1/2014 9:26:52 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: what we do with that is what I was trying to work on
- [5/1/2014 9:27:33 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: more than one of my corp members is concerned about being seen as just a pet
- [5/1/2014 9:28:13 AM] Siggon.k: I think what we do if we go with that is build a pvp focused organization with structures to support that. which is doable, as that's what gsf is
- [5/1/2014 9:28:14 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: the focus in a mobile skirmish force gives us leverage away from being perceived as just a subsidiary of GSF
- [5/1/2014 9:28:34 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: since its a totally different model of operation that the blue blob
- [5/1/2014 9:29:15 AM] Siggon.k: well, no matter what people on the outside are going to see and call this new thing as a pet. they say that about cfc alliances like gents already
- [5/1/2014 9:29:34 AM] Siggon.k: that's entirely unavoidable
- [5/1/2014 9:29:58 AM] Siggon.k: what's important is that the people inside don't feel like pets, and aren't treated like pets
- [5/1/2014 9:30:14 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: agreed
- [5/1/2014 9:30:15 AM] Siggon.k: personally, I hate the word, and I hate the concept
- [5/1/2014 9:31:42 AM] Siggon.k: realistically, this new alliance thing would almost certainly function the same as any other cfc alliance: very little demands placed on it outside of a proper bloc war, free to do whatever as you see fit during downtime. now, if what you see fit to do is build up a fighting org that can be deployed to hotspots to crush people
- [5/1/2014 9:31:58 AM] Siggon.k: well, that would be kinda awesome
- [5/1/2014 9:32:05 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: :)
- [5/1/2014 9:32:10 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: my guys are all set for that
- [5/1/2014 9:32:33 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and others I've talked to about what we might be able to do here are as well
- [5/1/2014 9:34:00 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that kind of focused activity would be quite a bit of fun - not like sitting arounf waiting for the next neutral group to wander into home space.
- [5/1/2014 9:34:26 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: by being out and more proactive, the FCs will be needed to really keep momentum
- [5/1/2014 9:34:38 AM] Siggon.k: yeah, and you wouldn't have to worry about space politics either
- [5/1/2014 9:35:07 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we cant go out, then sit and wait for something to develop. they FCs need paramaters, but need the autonomy to just pull the fleet together and go
- [5/1/2014 9:36:39 AM] Siggon.k: autonomous is good. in general, mittani gives people a broad set of goals as marching orders and let's people accomplish it as they wish. so in this case, that might be something like "help the sw cfc crush lucia and pasta" or "go make hero's lives miserable"
- [5/1/2014 9:37:18 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: If we use the GENTS FCs, most of our rookie FCs had gotten very good with our cruisers and HAC doctrines, in addition to Harpies, and inties, and our Retributions. We'd have a [retty decent FC corps to build of off, given the right conditions
- [5/1/2014 9:38:11 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: our Junior FCs had developed pretty well - but we'd had limited exposure to more straight up fights - which we would see more of, I hope
- [5/1/2014 9:38:28 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: so some tactical awareness training is going to be needed
- [5/1/2014 9:40:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and ENdie - i cant see how to manually change a name now that I'm on my laptop. Im using W8 in full screen, no options I can see for individual name resets
- [5/1/2014 9:42:46 AM] Symbiotes: need to add everyone to your contacts, and then you can rename them depending on the client
- [5/1/2014 9:45:12 AM] Endie H: lawl windows 8
- [5/1/2014 9:45:17 AM] Endie H: You're on your own, kid
- [5/1/2014 9:46:20 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: heh - i'm old fashioned, I'll just write down a list somewhere that I can lose later
- [5/1/2014 9:49:20 AM] Endie H: Less chance that way of a chance screenshot of your game client showing, in the background, that you've renamed someone "rumpleforeskin"
- [5/1/2014 9:49:38 AM] Endie H: (Sorry Sion it just helps me remember you better)
- [5/1/2014 9:53:17 AM] Siggon.k: surprised you noticed, what with me coming in from behind and all
- [5/1/2014 9:54:06 AM] Gigaplex: you have the guy add ass contact to change his name
- [5/1/2014 9:54:10 AM] Gigaplex: *as
- [5/1/2014 9:55:27 AM] *** Siggon.k added wilkco -AIRK ***
- [5/1/2014 9:56:28 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Apophis Encounter [-AE-] (name optional - obviously)
- Null CFC Space Alliance - All the PVP action you want without the hassle of maintaining the Sov.
- Outmanned, behind the lines, first in line to the fight - looking for a little more excitement in your PVP, fly with APOPHIS, and fly with some of the best CFC corps in a new paradigm in alliance structure and operation.
- [5/1/2014 9:57:30 AM] Siggon.k: so hrm. does anyone have any objections to framing this around nullsec pvp without the hassle?
- [5/1/2014 9:59:00 AM] Siggon.k: it would give a "why" of "to have fun and shoot dudes" and an identity of "nullsec pvp without the hassle"
- [5/1/2014 10:00:31 AM] Siggon.k: okay, well, if you do have an objection, feel free to raise it later, or if you have an idea for something different
- [5/1/2014 10:00:53 AM] Siggon.k: as is, I think you're right in wanting to switch over to what nullsec without the hassle would look like chance
- [5/1/2014 10:02:55 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: id like to use that as the working basis of the alliance and move forward to work on other aspects - as i'm not sure we can get buy in from folks until we have a better grasp of what we going to do on a day to day basis.
- If we can demonstrate that logging in might actually result in more daily combat, as opposed to using trusty JFs and Rorquals to service towers and such, we can generate some genuine excitement.
- [5/1/2014 10:03:31 AM] Symbiotes: I agree completely with that message as long as it doesn't forbid such trusty jf or rorqual based side activities ^^ have heard some of us want to start daytripping more into wormholes and other such activities
- [5/1/2014 10:04:17 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: i posted above that I thought the core constellations should be TVN- and the BUG6 const
- [5/1/2014 10:04:24 AM] wilkco.thefirst: the main thing to have is a good direction you want to take the allaince and make sure everything is aimed towards that
- [5/1/2014 10:04:30 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that gives us a power base in vale and an idy base in cale
- [5/1/2014 10:04:32 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: *vale
- [5/1/2014 10:04:59 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we need enough sov to give the indy guys what they nee
- [5/1/2014 10:05:13 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: since that is mostly in BUG6 now, may as well keep it there
- [5/1/2014 10:05:49 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and TVN is still the choke point for Vale, so it makes sense to keep that constellation as wel
- [5/1/2014 10:06:33 AM] Gigaplex: what i missed in GENTs was a cheap throw away doctrine with allrounders, which can used to get comfortable with the whole fc thing
- [5/1/2014 10:06:40 AM] Gigaplex: like T1 Cruisers or BC's
- [5/1/2014 10:06:50 AM] Gigaplex: not ScyFy
- [5/1/2014 10:07:27 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: more sov than that probably not needed, if we are out and about. Also - if we have access to blue space in general for ratting activities as needed, which we discussed earlier, we don't have to make certain that there is ample room locally. FOlks can set up their ratting alts wherever is convenient for them, not necessarily at home base.
- [5/1/2014 10:08:04 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: We had it for a while - and the scyfi fleet was supposed to be that.
- [5/1/2014 10:08:10 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we had carcals for a while
- [5/1/2014 10:08:16 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and we had moas
- [5/1/2014 10:08:32 AM] Siggon.k: it's probably a good bet that this new thing will have sov over some of that core space of tvn and around, for just the reasons you say. there's no desire to quash industrial dudes, and no reason to either. if that's what people find fun, and so long as a corps stats are good or if they provide essential services to the alliance, it's no worries
- [5/1/2014 10:08:39 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: but the game moved away from those, and we had isk to replace losses
- [5/1/2014 10:08:56 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: what we'll need now is a solid pvp platform that we are ok taking losses in
- [5/1/2014 10:09:08 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: one that can fight outnumbered
- [5/1/2014 10:09:17 AM] Siggon.k: cheap doctrines or more disposable learning doctrines are definitely a positive
- [5/1/2014 10:09:21 AM] Gigaplex: Hurricanes! :D
- [5/1/2014 10:09:28 AM] wilkco.thefirst: something like stabbers or ruptures would be a good way t ogo
- [5/1/2014 10:09:52 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: the Cerbs do that well, but with t1 doctrines, you wind up with either not quite enough punch or DPS, or both
- [5/1/2014 10:10:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Ruppies are nice
- [5/1/2014 10:10:09 AM] wilkco.thefirst: but it is good for junior fc's to fly
- [5/1/2014 10:10:25 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: what would be nice is a doctrine that can be upgraded easily
- [5/1/2014 10:10:44 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: mixing some of the more powerful ships in with the t1s
- [5/1/2014 10:10:50 AM] wilkco.thefirst: nothing to bad if they loss a fleet but allows them to deveolp skills with the big fleets
- [5/1/2014 10:10:52 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: T1s wind up being about numbers
- [5/1/2014 10:11:10 AM] wilkco.thefirst: and that is what we need to get back to
- [5/1/2014 10:11:20 AM] Siggon.k: peacetime reimbursement would be a thing too
- [5/1/2014 10:11:40 AM] *** Siggon.k added Martin Wojas ***
- [5/1/2014 10:11:44 AM] Gigaplex: how is this peacetime/ strat op reimbursement working?
- [5/1/2014 10:11:48 AM] Gigaplex: i never got that
- [5/1/2014 10:12:27 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: i'd like to see us keep the doctrines small - and relatively close to the GSF doctrines to avoid having to haul lots of ships all over the place
- [5/1/2014 10:12:52 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: no one is going to want to haul 2 or 3 carrier loads of ships all over the place
- [5/1/2014 10:13:12 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: its a hassle, and makes it hard to get in place and ready to fight quikcly
- [5/1/2014 10:14:26 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: the guys who just joimed, can you post your EVE names?
- [5/1/2014 10:14:33 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Paul and Sneak?
- [5/1/2014 10:14:46 AM] Siggon.k: peacetime reimbursement is a baseline payout for people who run things like home defense gangs, roams, whatever. it tends to be slightly different rates, but ensures that anytime someone loses a ship in pvp they get paid for it
- [5/1/2014 10:14:49 AM] wilkco.thefirst: should be changed now
- [5/1/2014 10:14:58 AM] wilkco.thefirst: wilkco was paul
- [5/1/2014 10:16:24 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Gents reimbursed anything lost fighting in a fleet run by and FC
- [5/1/2014 10:16:33 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we just had 1 rate
- [5/1/2014 10:16:40 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and updated it weekly
- [5/1/2014 10:17:10 AM] Siggon.k: fighting at all is covered by peacetime stuff in gsf, even solo ganking
- [5/1/2014 10:17:38 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: one of our guys built a spreadsheet that had all the fittings and such tied to the evemarket data, so once a week we'd update the reimbursement pricing.
- [5/1/2014 10:17:55 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: ahh - nice - we did not cover solo stuff
- [5/1/2014 10:17:58 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that was up to the corps
- [5/1/2014 10:18:19 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: so - presumably we'd be covering everything, as GSF does - cool
- [5/1/2014 10:18:23 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: folks will like that
- [5/1/2014 10:18:58 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I love my Deimos - now I wont have to worry as much when I lose my Deimost, Rpaier, Falcon trio
- [5/1/2014 10:19:05 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: :)
- [5/1/2014 10:19:48 AM] Siggon.k: incentivizing pvp is a big thing to us, as is space socialism
- [5/1/2014 10:19:58 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: in GSF - are the sigs setting up their own doctrines, in addition to the unified doctrines?
- [5/1/2014 10:20:15 AM] Siggon.k: sigs often have their own doctrines
- [5/1/2014 10:20:26 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: k - so we'd be free to develop a set that works for us
- [5/1/2014 10:20:53 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: so - T1 cruisers, or a dessie gang - I'd love to see a dessie gang doctrine
- [5/1/2014 10:21:13 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: we ran a few Thrasher fleets - love those
- [5/1/2014 10:21:52 AM] Gigaplex: i would like to see T1 Dual prop Armor Cruisers^^
- [5/1/2014 10:22:00 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: who was sneak? El Sneako?
- [5/1/2014 10:24:27 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: one of the things I found tiresome in GENTS was the waiting for something to happen - either waiting for neutrals, or waiting for someone to set up a roam. If we operate more or less permanently deployed, and have to operate in closer proximity to hostiles, we wont have the need to wait around for activity
- [5/1/2014 10:24:57 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: if we work closely with the Skyteam - we can poke in places that need poking, or respond to areas that seem to be detabilizing
- [5/1/2014 10:25:07 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: less station spinning, more shooting
- [5/1/2014 10:29:03 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Symbiotes, how do you want to see activity developed for this alliance?
- [5/1/2014 10:29:09 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Gig?
- [5/1/2014 10:29:59 AM] Symbiotes: sorry I gotta run for a dinner appointment, else they eat all the bbq without me -.- I'll toss in feedback later!
- [5/1/2014 10:30:11 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: o/
- [5/1/2014 10:31:12 AM] Gigaplex: what we need are little goal to work for to get activity, besides being the QRF
- [5/1/2014 10:31:41 AM] Gigaplex: something like having some dudes we want to punch the faces again and again
- [5/1/2014 10:31:48 AM] Gigaplex: like Black Core Alliance :)
- [5/1/2014 10:32:22 AM] Gigaplex: It's working well in my corp
- [5/1/2014 10:32:24 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: a couple of guy looking at the maps and keeping us moving around to new spots to shoot it up would be great
- [5/1/2014 10:34:07 AM] Siggon.k: well that's the one nice thing, lots of people hate us so there's always someone to punch in the face
- [5/1/2014 10:34:25 AM] Siggon.k: and normally more faces to punch that people to do the punching
- [5/1/2014 10:34:32 AM] Siggon.k: *than
- [5/1/2014 10:34:48 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: hehe - ok im falling into my keyboard. I'll follow the backlog later when i wake up.
- [5/1/2014 10:35:28 AM] Endie H: Gigaplex, IRC used to be that special somebody
- [5/1/2014 10:35:35 AM] Endie H: then razor ruined it for everyone :(
- [5/1/2014 10:35:40 AM] Siggon.k: oh also, can you dudes ensure the ceo's just getting added to this get the full scrollback?
- [5/1/2014 10:36:07 AM] sneakernyc: Yes preety please :)
- [5/1/2014 10:36:16 AM] Gigaplex: he
- [5/1/2014 10:36:23 AM] Gigaplex: we killed IRC by accident
- [5/1/2014 10:38:35 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: i can copy it all i suppose - where should I dump it - i don't want to dump it in dapper channel or the forum - too many eyes
- [5/1/2014 10:41:20 AM] Siggon.k: to ceo's individually as they ask, would probably be for the best
- [5/1/2014 10:42:10 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: see if this works - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dF_e8NNiM2_aVYnKDDCkPej5w-1vwVQLiKCpQNsNtA8/edit?usp=sharing
- [5/1/2014 10:44:19 AM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: ok - im off to sleep
- [5/1/2014 10:44:37 AM] sneakernyc: Perfect - tyvm
- [5/1/2014 10:44:42 AM] Siggon.k: g'night
- [5/1/2014 10:44:51 AM] sneakernyc: Im gonna read it after work :P
- [5/1/2014 10:44:55 AM] sneakernyc: Nite nite
- [5/1/2014 11:40:58 AM] *** Siggon.k added Manu Propria - (vadenastorian) ***
- [5/1/2014 12:33:37 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Just read all the backlogs. Nothing that I really disagree with, though I feel some it might be a bit overly ambitious from the get-go.
- [5/1/2014 12:34:44 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: There's a fine line between "this is who we are" and "this is what we want to do" - as is evidenced by Insideous Empire run under N3 - when the "this is what we want to do" is not accomplished in a timely manner it leaves the alliance feeling defeated.
- [5/1/2014 12:38:25 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Our primary concern in my opinion should be operating under what is best for the coalition, even if that means feeding the meatgrinder, and then try to string together an organic rapid response culture secondly.
- [5/1/2014 12:48:14 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Also, I would consider adding the F-V9QW constellation to the potential sov list so we don't create an intel dead zone for CO2 up in tribute. Their staging system borders T-ZW in that constellation.
- [5/1/2014 12:59:15 PM] Attoy [ybox]: what a backlog... I'll read it after dinner :/
- [5/1/2014 12:59:29 PM] Attoy [ybox]: just a couple of question so I know who are who :P
- [5/1/2014 12:59:44 PM] Attoy [ybox]: Martin Wojas? Michael Gilbert?
- [5/1/2014 12:59:52 PM] Attoy [ybox]: bo.elder = Rhay?
- [5/1/2014 1:00:30 PM] Martin Wojas: Martin Wojas = Dope Boy [B-HS]
- [5/1/2014 1:02:01 PM] Attoy [ybox]: awesome, tnx, added and renamed ;)
- [5/1/2014 1:03:32 PM] Martin Wojas: ;)
- [5/1/2014 1:07:18 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Totally unrelated, but long time no see Martin, flew with you a few years ago :)
- [5/1/2014 1:07:41 PM] Martin Wojas: :)
- [5/1/2014 1:07:49 PM] Martin Wojas: Good to see familliar faces
- [5/1/2014 1:53:48 PM] Attoy [ybox]: reading the backlog...
- [5/1/2014 1:54:09 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I guess we still miss a TETIC representative in here, am I right?
- [5/1/2014 1:55:17 PM] Attoy [ybox]: boin4 too, I can get in contact with boin4, however there will be some comunication issues as they are not so fluent in english
- [5/1/2014 1:55:25 PM] Attoy [ybox]: well, I'm not so fluent too :P
- [5/1/2014 1:56:53 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I think TETIC's CEO might be just a figurehead, never met the guy. But they have two dudes that I would consider trustworthy.
- [5/1/2014 1:56:59 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: If we want to bring one of them in
- [5/1/2014 1:58:06 PM] Attoy [ybox]: never talk to the guy either, but I guess we could ask them what are they planning for the future, don't know if they are interested in this project or if they are already joining some other alliance
- [5/1/2014 1:58:53 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I speak to Phineas regularly. They are interested, but only have the (limited) information that I've been providing him.
- [5/1/2014 1:59:05 PM] Attoy [ybox]: i like the 'motto' "nullsec pvp without the hassle" :)
- [5/1/2014 1:59:14 PM] Attoy [ybox]: Phineas is TETIC?
- [5/1/2014 1:59:26 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Yup
- [5/1/2014 1:59:35 PM] Attoy [ybox]: damn, need to use 'show info' more in game :P
- [5/1/2014 1:59:49 PM] Attoy [ybox]: he's a good guy, I guess he should be here with us
- [5/1/2014 2:00:28 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: In spite of an active CEO in TETIC, I don't know what the situation is there, but I consider Phineas and X4ver to be running the show with them.
- [5/1/2014 2:02:19 PM] Attoy [ybox]: if you're already in contact with them I guess you can ask who will be the corp representative to get an invite here
- [5/1/2014 2:02:47 PM] Attoy [ybox]: it seems Sion gave us a "go" to invite corp representative, or we should wait for him?
- [5/1/2014 2:03:21 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Well, last I heard it was CEOs only so I'm inclined to wait for Sion
- [5/1/2014 2:03:41 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: At the very least I will clarify the CEO situation with Phineas and figure out how they run shit
- [5/1/2014 2:04:13 PM] Attoy [ybox]: yeah, I don't use show info to allymate, true
- [5/1/2014 2:04:32 PM] Attoy [ybox]: however I'm pretty sure I never saw Hexentanz...!
- [5/1/2014 2:05:00 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Ive never seen him, never talked to him, he doesnt exist to me. Its a confusing situation.
- [5/1/2014 2:06:49 PM] Attoy [ybox]: ok I read the backlog
- [5/1/2014 2:07:21 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I'd like to keep it simple, let me explain better, I love the 'motto'; I'm scared about the doctrines topic
- [5/1/2014 2:08:11 PM] Attoy [ybox]: are we going to adopt CFC doctrines and add some like SIGs do, or are we going to have a new doctrines set at all?
- [5/1/2014 2:09:52 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I see also a proposed list of constellation, I guess it's official that we will hold sov, so are we going to propose which constellation we wanna hold?
- [5/1/2014 2:11:32 PM] Attoy [ybox]: quote Senshi - "and then try to string together an organic rapid response culture secondly."
- [5/1/2014 2:12:44 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I agree completely I'd like it, rapid response culture to be able to be deployed efficiently and fastly wherever the military wing decide
- [5/1/2014 2:13:03 PM] Attoy [ybox]: do I understand what you meant Senshi or am I wrong?
- [5/1/2014 2:14:09 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: In principle you read it correctly, though the message behind that statement was that we don't rush into any such culture. Let the foundation be put in place, integrate with GSF best practices and THEN hone in on our rapid response directives.
- [5/1/2014 2:14:40 PM] Attoy [ybox]: hah ok
- [5/1/2014 2:15:05 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Though our end goal should be a rapid response culture. That is a good angle, and one that I can see us executing in the long haul
- [5/1/2014 2:15:33 PM] Attoy [ybox]: rgr that
- [5/1/2014 3:17:06 PM] Attoy [ybox]: Sion o/
- [5/1/2014 3:20:48 PM] Siggon.k: had to swap computers
- [5/1/2014 3:21:02 PM] Siggon.k: and then it took forever to get it up and running, woo
- [5/1/2014 3:21:34 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I hate even when I need to reinstall the OS... :P
- [5/1/2014 3:22:48 PM] Siggon.k: if phineas should be in here, by all means
- [5/1/2014 3:26:05 PM] *** Siggon.k added marcus allen ***
- [5/1/2014 3:26:55 PM] Siggon.k: for the folks just recently joining: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dF_e8NNiM2_aVYnKDDCkPej5w-1vwVQLiKCpQNsNtA8/edit?usp=sharing
- [5/1/2014 3:27:52 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: i'm keen to have the activity of the alliance framed up front, because I think its a selling point for foks who are going to be shy of being just another GSF. We have people who really are going to want to have a clear identity separation, and making it clear that the activity should surround a QRF model, even if it takes some time to get there, is going to be important
- [5/1/2014 3:29:15 PM] Siggon.k: as I mentioned earlier, I'm not too worried about that. identity as a function of size means that it will only be natural that it'll be something else
- [5/1/2014 3:29:54 PM] Michael Gilbert: I like the meta alliance identity, why not embrace that?
- [5/1/2014 3:30:53 PM] Siggon.k: the idea currently floater per nova is 'pvp without the hassle'
- [5/1/2014 3:31:09 PM] Michael Gilbert: yes, it really sounds great
- [5/1/2014 3:31:19 PM] Michael Gilbert: first responders ect
- [5/1/2014 3:31:22 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: i guess what i'm trying to emphazise is that it gives us a goal to work towrd, which is what ultimately killed GENTS. We lost the narrative that help the alliance together
- [5/1/2014 3:32:05 PM] Michael Gilbert: we stayed together functioning because we liked each other, isnt that enough to start with?
- [5/1/2014 3:32:44 PM] marcus allen: what killed gents is in activty at leadership level.
- [5/1/2014 3:33:12 PM] Michael Gilbert: thats my point, the members still had fun together
- [5/1/2014 3:33:34 PM] Michael Gilbert: we generally enjoy spending our time together
- [5/1/2014 3:34:30 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: that works at the corp level, but al the level of an alliance with 1500 people, its not enough. You don't get enough relationships across corp identities to hold it all together. You need some sort of common goals. So that way, no mattet when you log in, no matter who is on at the time, you hae a shared sense of purpose that is tangible - not just "fight for mittani" which might be noble, but is not enough of narrative, or else GENTS would have stayed together
- [5/1/2014 3:36:55 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: and we absolutely enjoyed spending time together, else we would not be here trying to re-from in some new way
- [5/1/2014 3:39:36 PM] Siggon.k: narrative only gets you so far. you can take a loose goal like "goons in space" and drive it to a successful space empire if you prioritize results
- [5/1/2014 3:39:48 PM] Michael Gilbert: you can have the best narrative or concept and have a shitty group and it will fail. I think we have the most important part...us
- [5/1/2014 3:42:21 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: prioritize results = short term and medium term goals - which is something people can conceptualize. "successful space empire", again is a noble goal, but too nebulous and lofty to be compelling on a daily basis.
- [5/1/2014 3:52:27 PM] marcus allen: im catching up on back log.. but is there some kinda firm out line of things as it stands?
- [5/1/2014 3:55:08 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Cosmo from boinas eve mailed me. He's interested.
- [5/1/2014 4:02:54 PM] Siggon.k: I dare say our membership does okay with the space empire goal
- [5/1/2014 4:03:13 PM] Siggon.k: it's subsidiary to having fun though
- [5/1/2014 4:05:46 PM] Siggon.k: I guess my suggestion is that if you want something with concrete walls between it and gsf, that you leave the cfc entirely. as is, there's nothing in the coalition that is totally isolated from gsf, and it will be impossible to build such an entity
- [5/1/2014 4:07:38 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Agreed. fun = null space pvp without the hassle. Daily activity to grow from there
- [5/1/2014 5:10:21 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: And yet we can't decide on something as trivial as a name. Heh, eve is a complex machine.
- [5/1/2014 5:11:06 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I love it.
- [5/1/2014 5:14:56 PM] Michael Gilbert: I like the name "Chance", it says it all
- [5/1/2014 5:17:18 PM] Siggon.k: I'm terrible at name stuff too
- [5/1/2014 5:25:01 PM] Michael Gilbert: I read in the backlog that you do not think Prax will join this new alliance. I have not heard from Lake and of course it is his decision in the end. With that being said, he told us in the begining that where we went as a corp would be up to us(members). We are very interested in this new alliance and though I have not taken a poll, most of the conversation is pro meta alliance. Most of us want to stay with our friends from gents.
- [5/1/2014 5:29:29 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: So if I understand correctly, R16s aren't given out in GSF, its basically you probe them you tower them you pay the taxes?
- [5/1/2014 5:31:19 PM] Siggon.k: it's first come first sever, whoever owns the moon first owns it
- [5/1/2014 5:31:25 PM] Siggon.k: no taxes
- [5/1/2014 5:31:40 PM] Siggon.k: the alliance holds all the r64's and some tech
- [5/1/2014 5:32:04 PM] Siggon.k: so if something isn't nationalized, it's free game
- [5/1/2014 5:32:06 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Tax free R16s is a beautiful concept
- [5/1/2014 5:32:15 PM] Siggon.k: r32's too
- [5/1/2014 5:32:29 PM] Siggon.k: tax free all moons. they're either tax free or totally nationalized
- [5/1/2014 5:32:30 PM] Siggon.k: oh
- [5/1/2014 5:32:52 PM] Siggon.k: so yeah, if you are on r16's or r32's, I'd recommend not de-towering them
- [5/1/2014 5:33:57 PM] Gigaplex: i don't think that first come first serve is a good concept to distribute towers. Especially if it is planned that the alliance get more corps
- [5/1/2014 5:34:31 PM] Gigaplex: in the end the starting corps will have all moons and new corps will get nothing
- [5/1/2014 5:34:56 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I gave my r32's to GSOL, but I wont lie, as an opportunist ive got my entire corp moon-scanning R16s
- [5/1/2014 5:35:04 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Because they're bored.
- [5/1/2014 5:35:47 PM] Siggon.k: unless the r32's were tech, no reason to
- [5/1/2014 5:36:04 PM] Siggon.k: the tech might get nationalized in vale, not sure yet
- [5/1/2014 5:36:22 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Its okay. The towers I gave over were in renter space and I really hated the logistics..
- [5/1/2014 5:46:02 PM] Attoy [ybox]: back again, I read the backlog
- [5/1/2014 5:47:57 PM] Attoy [ybox]: I know, I'm bad with names... Who's Marcus Allen?
- [5/1/2014 5:48:41 PM] Attoy [ybox]: nvm ;)
- [5/1/2014 6:45:58 PM] bo.elder: back - Attoy, yes, it's me ... Rhaybeck [EMPIN]
- [5/1/2014 6:46:00 PM] bo.elder: ;)
- [5/1/2014 7:33:56 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: In pursuit of a name, can we have everyone in here make 1 proposal?
- [5/1/2014 7:51:14 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Ziggybee Federation [ZIGGY] - "Though low-powered, ZigBee devices can transmit data over long distances by passing data through intermediate devices to reach more distant ones, creating a mesh network", pretty much summarizes the meta-GSF relationship, a small power communicating through a series of networks/delegation
- [5/1/2014 7:51:19 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: ^^ my proposal
- [5/1/2014 7:54:05 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: (only because The State is taken)
- [5/1/2014 7:55:32 PM] *** bo.elder added Catlos Jeminjees [EMPIN] ***
- [5/1/2014 8:04:18 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Phoenix Federation [-PE-]
- [5/1/2014 8:05:00 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I like that too.
- [5/1/2014 8:06:07 PM] Catlos Jeminjees: How about something along the lines of The Crows from Game of thrones
- [5/1/2014 8:06:50 PM] Catlos Jeminjees: Hello Im Catlos o7 Im the Co-CEO of EMPIN
- [5/1/2014 8:07:14 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: o/ catlos
- [5/1/2014 8:07:53 PM] Catlos Jeminjees: Chance (heart)
- [5/1/2014 8:11:15 PM] *** Senshi [ohcrp] added [TETIC] Phineas Freak ***
- [5/1/2014 8:11:22 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Got a TETIC rep here now
- [5/1/2014 8:12:20 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: 0/
- [5/1/2014 8:12:28 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Luc? Eve name?
- [5/1/2014 8:13:27 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: phineas freak
- [5/1/2014 8:13:38 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: i can change it, just had this one handy
- [5/1/2014 8:16:03 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I changed it on my end
- [5/1/2014 8:18:37 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I vouch for him while TETIC's CEO is at fanfest, hes a good dude
- [5/1/2014 8:21:03 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: yup i am good in sense that you know all have my public skype account. i'll handle that later
- [5/1/2014 8:22:19 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: HEXENTANZ and X4ver are at fanfest,we talk daily and even though hex went afk 6 months ago he is in the loop.
- [5/1/2014 8:23:31 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: That explains why nobody seems to know who he is lol
- [5/1/2014 8:24:13 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: ye
- [5/1/2014 8:24:21 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: I trust you more than I trust him. No offense intended to hex.
- [5/1/2014 8:24:44 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: that fine you can not trut him if you never spoke to him
- [5/1/2014 8:28:40 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: but he is a really fine dude. since he is not interested in eve at the moment x4ver and me lead the corp, kataira is an equal director too but off shore many weeks in a row on survay boat
- [5/1/2014 8:29:42 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: remind to to enable spell check here before endie bites my head off
- [5/1/2014 8:30:10 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Haha
- [5/1/2014 8:31:46 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: ok my girl is fst asleep so i got ome time, just no voice atm or i''ll wake her up
- [5/1/2014 8:32:06 PM] bo.elder: we're doing IM for the time being
- [5/1/2014 8:32:36 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: cool
- [5/1/2014 8:36:24 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: It all im. That way we have the backlog
- [5/1/2014 8:38:11 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: transscribing voice recordings is terribly annoying work. text rules.
- [5/1/2014 8:43:38 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Can someone link the backlog doc for them?
- [5/1/2014 8:44:35 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dF_e8NNiM2_aVYnKDDCkPej5w-1vwVQLiKCpQNsNtA8/edit?usp=sharing
- [5/1/2014 8:44:53 PM] Lukas Schmallegger: what i can say is that all tetic directors want to give a "new thing" a try as proposed by senshi to us, of course there are certain questions unanswred bt canw ait until after fanfest and longer if required.
- [5/1/2014 8:45:01 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Thanks senshi
- [5/1/2014 8:45:20 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: we declined all other offers so far or put them on hold
- [5/1/2014 9:01:24 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Same
- [5/1/2014 9:02:00 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: halfway through the backlog :)
- [5/1/2014 9:02:56 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: i see the reasoning behind the proposal and it is something i embrace because it takes weight off my shoulders
- [5/1/2014 9:04:10 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: eve is not dying, it simply has many vets piled up on one side or another who can't find anything intersting to do anymore and stop logging in for daily/weekly chores and fun.
- [5/1/2014 9:04:43 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: offering the actives a new project is more encouraging than splitting up and start to grab from the limited recruitment pool there is
- [5/1/2014 9:08:43 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: brave newbies/love squad/rvb get hundred of people in a fleet to save a tackled harbinger. of course this won't last, but a little bit of that excitement and socialising via pvp could be carried over to cap pilots too and make kcolor happy again. i don' want us to end up like ncdot.
- [5/1/2014 9:12:21 PM] *** Siggon.k removed Catlos Jeminjees [EMPIN] from this conversation. ***
- [5/1/2014 9:12:50 PM] Siggon.k: let's not start adding in co-ceo's and other directors to this
- [5/1/2014 9:13:29 PM] Siggon.k: you're welcome to communicate this information to them, but this will swiftly get a bit too big if we start adding in multiples for corps
- [5/1/2014 9:19:42 PM] Nova Rain: Playing with the idea of "nullsec PvP without the hassle" a bit, the next step seems to be to figure out what the hassles actually are and figure out how you'd mitigate them. Cost can get covered by reimbursement (although that's not sufficient, folks still want income), towers and infrastructure being managed by GSOL removes that overhead, deployment could get covered by formalizing the freight hangar and cyno chain system, etc.
- [5/1/2014 9:21:09 PM] Nova Rain: An extreme of that idea -- although I'm not sure if it's viable -- would be to actually not give this new alliance any sov, but instead give the right to crash on the couch of other CFC/PBLRD/whatever space to do PvE, with the understanding that they shouldn't stay somewhere too long.
- [5/1/2014 9:22:10 PM] Nova Rain: Actually holding space is more of a hassle than a value if you have the ability to actually generate income without it. Not having a centralized place for a distraction to hit you would also be attractive. Half the problem GENTS had deploying was that we still had to defend the homeland, which forced split attention a lot.
- [5/1/2014 9:22:15 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Sovless wont work
- [5/1/2014 9:22:18 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: i think a combination of the way gsf handles this nd what gents did would work fine, we do not have to reinvent the whell. or do we? i hvae no insight in how many helping hands keep cfc combined ops running
- [5/1/2014 9:22:19 PM] Nova Rain: I'm not entirely sure what I think of that yet, but I wanted to toss it out there.
- [5/1/2014 9:22:27 PM] Nova Rain: Senshi: Why not?
- [5/1/2014 9:23:32 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: We can't treat line members like second class citizens. No home, nothing to fight for. There is a split between corps at the moment willing to serve the coalition and those who want their own image. And the side that wants a home holds the clear advantage at the moment.
- [5/1/2014 9:23:49 PM] Nova Rain: I'm not sure how not having sov makes you second class.
- [5/1/2014 9:24:12 PM] Nova Rain: Holding sov yourself -- rather than relying on sov held by allies -- doesn't actually confer much benefit.
- [5/1/2014 9:24:32 PM] Nova Rain: There's certainly a messaging issue, but I don't think spinning no sov as a good thing would be as hard as you think.
- [5/1/2014 9:24:51 PM] Nova Rain: And it's not that corporations couldn't have a "home" somewhere, it just might not be the same across the alliance. Home is where the industry is, I suppose.
- [5/1/2014 9:25:35 PM] Nova Rain: I also strongly disagree that you need a home to have "something to fight for". Most folks interested in PvP don't actually care about the space that much, they just want to shoot dudes. It's way more fun to wreck someone else's space than to defend your own.
- [5/1/2014 9:26:28 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: i could live without sov, but i also like to learn all aspects of the game at some point. so do many players, the majority even i think. it's not the matrial benefit or pride of seing your banner ona poco/ tcu that matters - lmiiting the possibilities makes many people feel they are being restrained. i'd fight for anything because that in itself provides "content"
- [5/1/2014 9:29:22 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: My line members lack motivation. I motivate them by telling them that the CFC gave us Vale, and we have space to defend. And when its not under attack, we help the people who gave us our space.
- [5/1/2014 9:29:42 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Without that narrative or something similar, not everyone folows the "i just want to kill people for the sake of killing people" mantra
- [5/1/2014 9:30:08 PM] Symbiotes: I have... some trouble with that kind of motivation
- [5/1/2014 9:30:20 PM] Nova Rain: It's easy to build a bit of narrative around "we live here, it's home, let's protect it"... but that's ultimately really boring to do.
- [5/1/2014 9:31:44 PM] Nova Rain: You could alternatively build your narrative around "we're nomads who shoot up other people's space", and really play the whole "free from the shackles of sov" card while having the support of a sov-holding bloc.
- [5/1/2014 9:32:46 PM] Nova Rain: It's a lot easier to generate content -- and narrative -- when you have the initiative.
- [5/1/2014 9:33:19 PM] Nova Rain: The whole idea rests on the ability to basically hijack the space of other CFC entities for PvE purposes, though, which might not even be viable.
- [5/1/2014 9:36:40 PM] Siggon.k: there's definitely going to be some sov
- [5/1/2014 9:37:01 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: even npc 0.0 or low sec based alliances usually are very territorial for as long as they stay in one place) and enjoy ruining the day of those who are overstaying their welcome. the setback is they are usually smaller and not as stable imho (with few exceptions). tl,dr the "new alliance" might raise the bar for their members mindest quite a bit.
- [5/1/2014 9:37:20 PM] Siggon.k: based on the feedback in here and the idea of 'pvp without the hassle', it will probably be a small footprint though
- [5/1/2014 9:37:29 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: mindest? mindset
- [5/1/2014 9:39:12 PM] Siggon.k: that is, there will be some sov
- [5/1/2014 9:39:27 PM] Siggon.k: there's too much quality of life stuff that goes along with it
- [5/1/2014 9:42:06 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: ok good to hear. i do not need it but the majority of people does to be motivated to stick around, for one reason or another.
- [5/1/2014 9:43:07 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Ive already build a "fortress" in C-FP to give my guys narrative to protect our "home", it's as flimsy of a narrative as you can get, but it gives them a reason to log on and not evacuate
- [5/1/2014 9:43:12 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: built, rather
- [5/1/2014 9:44:09 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: heh. what kind of corp size/activity will be required after the transition phase/grace period has passed? (a rough estimate will do)
- [5/1/2014 9:44:30 PM] Nova Rain: Geography based identity is fairly brittle. It leads to very little content, and ultimately you're going to lose it.
- [5/1/2014 9:45:01 PM] Nova Rain: Any time Vale got attacked -- even in fairly casual ways -- you'd have a corporation or two would who evac everything to lowsec and start looking at other alliances.
- [5/1/2014 9:45:52 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: good point nova which is why i think regular smaller deployments aka new sigs people can get into would be awesome. we never really established a working blops team in gents (evn though various people kept working on it)
- [5/1/2014 9:47:34 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: i'll give you a straight number: out of 100 ppl in tetic 20 MAINS did not log in for 3 months (aka since the vale def). i woudl have kicked them by end of may anyway.
- [5/1/2014 9:47:59 PM] Nova Rain: SIGs are great, but there's a difference between "nullsec PvP without the hassle" and "access to GSF SIGs without the hassle". Both are probably viable, but the former would benefit from a bit of alliance cohesion while the latter would never have a strong identity.
- [5/1/2014 9:48:11 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: Build the identity around what we do not where we live. Itd much more flexible.
- [5/1/2014 9:48:26 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: and i doubt they will becoem more active whatever we do, sov or not.
- [5/1/2014 9:48:34 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: and yes what chance said
- [5/1/2014 9:48:46 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: more "gentlemen on the road" style
- [5/1/2014 9:49:48 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: that requirespeople who attract pilots that want to fly with them because it is fun. to have that these fc's should not be tripple tasked as dg's, tower fueers and ceo#s
- [5/1/2014 10:01:09 PM] Siggon.k: corp size and activity probably won't be looked at at all for at lease the first few months
- [5/1/2014 10:02:06 PM] Siggon.k: a transition in management is hard enough, a transition into something no one has ever tried before, even harder
- [5/1/2014 10:02:47 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: Which is why we should remain as open-minded and flexible as possible
- [5/1/2014 10:03:19 PM] Siggon.k: yeah. the real key here is going to be looking to the future and not dwelling on the past
- [5/1/2014 10:03:55 PM] Siggon.k: not that the past shouldn't inform decisions, but I have little interest in carrying the corp rivalries you guys have expereinced in some cases to this new thing
- [5/1/2014 10:04:12 PM] Siggon.k: anyone who signs up, on the same team
- [5/1/2014 10:04:40 PM] Siggon.k: and people can disagree without being disagreeable so long as we're working toward roughly the same goals
- [5/1/2014 10:05:13 PM] Nova Rain: Not sure we had any actual corp rivalries (maybe I missed them), just a fair number of pissing matches between individuals.
- [5/1/2014 10:05:33 PM] Siggon.k: which increasingly, it sounds like we are working toward, which is good
- [5/1/2014 10:06:45 PM] Siggon.k: well, not too worried about that. I'm just saying I'm not invested in any past grudges. my only goal is this thing working effectively
- [5/1/2014 10:07:57 PM] Siggon.k: the good part is that we've gone from "I dunno" to an actual idea of why this thing will exist and what kind identity it might have
- [5/1/2014 10:08:29 PM] Siggon.k: the rest is details, important details, but we've already cleared the highest hurdle
- [5/1/2014 10:08:36 PM] Siggon.k: so hooray for that
- [5/1/2014 10:08:39 PM] Siggon.k: okay wait no
- [5/1/2014 10:08:44 PM] Siggon.k: the name might be the highest hurdle
- [5/1/2014 10:11:05 PM] Symbiotes: I'd say preferably something classy while referencing the 'idea' behind the alliance, but nothing comes to mind right away, definitely a high hurdle
- [5/1/2014 10:13:29 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: afk a bit red needed a lgi anchor, bl trying to break out
- [5/1/2014 10:26:11 PM] Chance el'Allin - P0LR: I've put up 2. I'll keep poking at the name. Need to do some reading. Something that is not s gimmick.
- [5/1/2014 10:26:34 PM] Rhaybeck [empin]: ^^
- [5/1/2014 10:27:16 PM] Symbiotes: agreed
- [5/1/2014 10:34:25 PM] Senshi [ohcrp]: The only gimmick I wouldve been fond over was Zombie Outbreak Response Team [-ZOR-] but its taken.
- [5/1/2014 10:41:09 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: haha
- [5/1/2014 10:41:34 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: what does Li3 stand for btw
- [5/1/2014 10:41:40 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: i never bothered so far
- [5/1/2014 10:42:16 PM] [TETIC] Phineas Freak: (apart from lithium of course)
- [1:04:49 AM] Attoy [ybox]: Li3, I never thought to Lithium :P I always read it as 'LIE' written in 'leet' mode with the 'E' switched with a '3'
- [1:13:25 AM] Attoy [ybox]: as a summary can we say in a not precise order:
- 1. Definitely sov-holding, little footprint (I guess it means few systems);
- 2. Null-sec pvp without hassle applied as a strategic/quick response unit alliance;
- 3. Management structure exported from GSF;
- 4. FCs structure similar to CFC; skirmish FC, FC, bloc-FC;
- 5. Doctrines inherited from CFC plus custom doctrines;
- 6. no big deal on participation for the first couple of months to facilitate the transition;
- 7. (possibly) R32, R16 and below FFA;
- 8. sov infrastructure managed by GSOL (no mandate tower, no JB tower, no staging tower);
- 9. -most important thing- no grudges between corps, let's start with a clean slate
- did I miss something?
- Oh yeah, the name... can we extend the pool and ask our memberbase to think about a name and then write them here?
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