Beret IRC, Dec. 13 2011

[14:45] == Leylite_ [813115bb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.49.21.187] has joined #beret
[14:45] == Leylite_ has changed nick to Leylite
[14:45] <ircdearia> Leylite_, I see you connected again instead of joining this channel also.
[14:45] <ircdearia> You could have simply typed /join #beret
[14:46] <Leylite> Yeah, that's what I would have done if I were using an IRC client on my home computer.
[14:46] <Leylite> I wasn't sure how exactly the Freenode website was handling it, though.
[14:46] <Leylite> No harm done, though.
[14:46] <ircdearia> The command is standard for all IRC clients including qwebirc at http://webchat.freenode.net/
[14:47] <ircdearia> Mmkay, I just thought I'd mention it in case you were new to IRC.
[14:47] <Leylite> I've been using IRC chat for years, I'm just new to using a web-based chat interface.
[14:49] <Leylite> Next time I'll probably just connect to this server using the IRC client I already have installed on my computer instead of going through all this rigamarole.
[14:50] <ircdearia> Mm, it may be interesting also to integrate support for IRC chatting into Beret or Kiwisauce's next game ^_^
[14:50] <Leylite> That's an interesting idea
[14:50] <Leylite> On a somewhat related topic, I was pleasantly surprised to see larrymurk post a quick review of beret
[14:51] <Leylite> Both he and I came from a forum for another puzzle game
[14:51] <Leylite> and that game actually does have IRC chat in it as part of a paid subscription service
[14:51] <ircdearia> mm, DROD?
[14:52] <Leylite> Yes, that's the one
[14:52] <ircdearia> That's where I came from also.
[14:53] <Leylite> Anyway, larrymurk is a highly notorious DROD puzzle designer who makes pretty tricky puzzles, so I am hoping in a year or two he may end up making some Beret puzzles.
[15:13] <Leylite> Hmm, I think I found another link block bug.
[15:13] <Leylite> I'll have to build another one of those test rooms so I can isolate it.
[15:14] <Isocitration> Can you explain it? I'm curious.
[15:14] <Leylite> Okay, so here's the premise.
[15:14] <Leylite> We already know that pink link blocks can only have one "target block"
[15:14] <Leylite> which is the block they'll move according to how they themselves move.
[15:15] <Leylite> So what I did was I got a whole bunch of pink link blocks in a row, evenly spaced apart, and a stone block at the end.
[15:15] <Leylite> I linked one pink block to the stone block.
[15:15] <Leylite> Then I linked another pink block to that pink block.
[15:16] <Leylite> So far, so good - that results in one pink block which, if you move it, moves the other pink block, which itself moves the stone block.
[15:16] <Leylite> That alone results in some puzzle potential, but that's another story.
[15:16] <Leylite> Anyway, so I extended this to get about seven link blocks in a chain, ending with the stone block.
[15:17] <Leylite> This also works pretty predictably - the one pink block controls all the others in a chain.
[15:17] <Leylite> That's the premise. Here's the bug.
[15:17] <Leylite> Apparently some weird stuff starts happening once I start destroying pink blocks in the middle of this chain.
[15:18] <Leylite> For instance, when I cut the chain in half such that one half consisted of the last pink block and the stone block, and the other half was the remaining pink blocks,
[15:18] <Leylite> for some reason the last pink block just hovered in mid-air, as though the block I destroyed was still there.
[15:19] <Leylite> Some other cut I made resulted in a pink link block that I could move using telekinesis, but would still try to return to its ideal location once I stopped moving it, like a normal link block target block.
[15:19] <Leylite> So I'm going to try and isolate this behavior in a bug demonstration level.
[15:19] <Isocitration> huh that's bizarre...
[15:20] <Leylite> It'll make more sense once I have a simpler scenario.
[15:20] <Leylite> And when I show the puzzle I was trying to do that led me to discover the bug.
[15:21] <Leylite> Erm, the puzzle I was trying to design, that is.
[15:22] <Leylite> So that's the story!
[15:23]  * Isocitration trying it for myself
[15:24] <Leylite> Anyway, one of the interesting puzzle-potential uses of these pink link-block chains is that, for example,
[15:24] <Leylite> if one of the middle pink blocks in the sequence is blocked from where it would like to go (say by some floor) then the rest of the chain following that block is similarly displaced.
[15:28] <Isocitration> Wow this glitch is actually pretty annoying...
[15:29] <Leylite> Yeah, when I first thought of the idea I thought splitting a chain would result in two independent chains that could both be moved like the original.
[15:29] <Isocitration> If I had designed a puzzle using this, I would have expected it to work and I'd have been sorely disappointed that this happened...
[15:29] <Isocitration> Exactly
[15:30] <Leylite> I didn't quite get all the way to the "enforce splitting the chain exactly how I want the player to" part of the design, but yeah, that's what happened.
[15:31] <Isocitration> hm...
[15:33] <Isocitration> Try delinking some in the editor itself and see if you get the result I'm getting with the shorter chain
[15:33] <Isocitration> (ie I can't move anything at all)
[15:34] <Leylite> I've been messing around with a simple chain of two pink blocks and an "end block" so far.
[15:34] <Leylite> Destroying the middle pink block creates the expected result (two absolutely normal blocks)
[15:35] <Isocitration> I was going to check to see how many chained blocks it takes to create the bug, but...
[15:35] <Leylite> destroying the end block reproduces the behavior where the pink block that linked to the end block becomes free to move but still linked to by the other pink block
[15:36] <Isocitration> When I shortened the chain using the editor, the bug effect persisted
[15:36] <Isocitration> Without destroying any blocks!
[15:36] <Leylite> and destroying the first block produces extremely weird levitation in the second block, and the second block couldn't be moved by telekinesis
[15:36] <Isocitration> I cannot even move the now unlinked blocks
[15:37] <Leylite> So my extremely scientific conclusion is that linking a pink block to another pink block that already had a link to some other target block causes bugs.
[15:37] <Leylite> The bug is probably something hilarious involving pointers.
[15:39] <Isocitration> How strange, the bugged blocks will say bugged until they are deleted and replaced...
[15:39] <Leylite> Okay, extending the chain to three pink blocks or longer doesn't seem to create any new behavior that I didn't know about from the two pink block chain.
[15:40] <Leylite> Oh yeah, and when I deleted the head block of the chain using the editor I got your problem, Iso, where I couldn't move any block in the smaller chain.
[16:06] <Leylite> Alright, the bug demo level is submitted and is awaiting authorization.
[16:06] <Isocitration> Alright, cool
[16:07] <Isocitration> Did Kiwisauce end up fixing the other link block bugs?
[16:07] <Leylite> Yes he did.
[16:08] <Isocitration> Even the 'more than one pink/blue link block per object' one?
[16:09] <Leylite> No, he didn't fix that one
[16:09] <Isocitration> Aw...
[16:09] <Leylite> If I remember right, he said that the way he coded links makes behavior like that impossible to specify properly
[16:10] <Leylite> I'll go check if he put a warning in the editor about it
[16:10] <Isocitration> He's being coaxed into making Beret open source so maybe someone will be able to provide a fix someday
[16:11] <Leylite> Ha ha, maybe someday.
[16:11] <Leylite> We can dream of it :)
[16:11] <Isocitration> A beautiful new world where link blocks can share their slaves...
[16:12] <Leylite> Nope, still no warning.
[16:12] <Leylite> Oh well.
[16:12] <Leylite> It's just one of those things that the community will have to tell new architects about
[16:13] <Isocitration> Tell ircdearia about all your suggestions :P
[16:13] <Leylite> All of them?
[16:13] <Isocitration> Well...
[16:13] <Leylite> You mean, even my suggestion that they put more mustard on the sandwiches on Deli Night?
[16:13] <Isocitration> Maybe>
[16:14] <Isocitration> Perhaps
[16:14] <Leylite> Well, I just did, so.
[16:14] <Leylite> Seriously, though, what do you mean by "suggestions"?
[16:15] <Isocitration> For the game
[16:15] <Isocitration> Like...
[16:16] <Isocitration> Fixes+ new features
[16:16] <Leylite> Oh, like for example some of those facetious suggestions I made a few days ago back when Kiwisauce was in the chat.
[16:16] <Leylite> er, well, it was probably a bit longer ago than that, but anyway.
[16:17] <Isocitration> If you really want your facetious suggestions in game, go for it :P
[16:18] <Leylite> Ha ha ha, I doubt that would happen, but if I were to do something like that I'd make a post on the forum instead of telling Kiwisauce over IRC
[16:18] <Leylite> You might need to remind me what exactly happened, because the only suggestion I remember was the "fake framework"
[16:19] <Leylite> which would allow for the possibility of any Beret object or tile being a fake
[16:19] <Isocitration> I don't actually remember anything you suggested
[16:19]  * Isocitration cough
[16:19]  * Leylite coughs
[16:20] <Isocitration> I wait now that you mention it
[16:20] <Isocitration> I do remember the 'everything can be fake'
[16:20] <Isocitration> Suggestion
[16:20] <Leylite> I think it was actually Kiwisauce who suggested "fake cups"
[16:20] <Isocitration> Haha
[16:21] <Isocitration> Which reminds me that I want boss objects to be in the editor...
[16:22] <Isocitration> And shield generators + shields to be objects in normal levels
[16:22] <Leylite> Oh yeah, that would be nifty - a purple telekinetic shield for any object or enemy
[16:23] <Leylite> so you could have five purple shield generators protecting a crate, for instance
[16:23] <Isocitration> Yes!
[16:23] <Leylite> and you'd have to disable the generators before you could move the crate with telekinesis
[16:23] <Isocitration> YES!!!
[16:23] <Isocitration> Also I think that they shouldn't have to be in the same room to deactivate a shield
[16:24] <Leylite> Whoa, hey, now we're getting back into engine expansions rather than new objects or code reuse.
[16:24] <Leylite> No other objects affect objects in different rooms.
[16:24] <Isocitration> Well the game can already tell if all enemies are killed...
[16:25] <Leylite> Actually, yeah, that would lead to some really crazy stuff. Like if you had a pink link block in one room that controlled a stone block in another room
[16:25] <Isocitration> That's getting a bit... Insane xD
[16:26] <Isocitration> Though actually... That'd be neat as well!
[16:26] <Leylite> Well, the way the game knows when to give Beret the red medallion is if all rooms in the level are cleared.
[16:26] <ircdearia> Leylite, Actually, I suggest documenting them in a forum thread instead.
[16:26] <Leylite> To do that, it has to have a list of all rooms in the level, which is what that .meta file is.
[16:27] <ircdearia> That way they can be preserved more than just in our IRC logs for others to read until they are implemented
[16:27] <Leylite> ircdearia, I guess I haven't been making myself very clear here - the "fake framework" suggestion, as well as whatever mess Isocitration and I just got ourselves into, is pretty facetious.
[16:28] <Leylite> But, sure, before I go I can archive this whole discussion on Pastebin and post a link to the paste in the IRC thread.
[16:28] <ircdearia> Leylite, I haven't been paying attention to the actual conversation.  I only noticed the messages including my nick.
[16:28] <Leylite> That's fine.
[16:28] <Isocitration> I like to think my suggestions are serious :(
[16:29] <ircdearia> why so serious?
[16:29] <Leylite> That will be for posterity to decide
[16:29] <Isocitration> I CAN DREAM
[16:29] <Leylite> those Internet anthropologists from the future, studying the writings of the mysterious Isocitration
[16:29] <ircdearia> http://ermanoj.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/why-so-serious-by-ericartman10293847561.jpg
[16:30] <Leylite> trying to figure out just what motivated him to create his famous Pancake Sculpture
[16:30] <Isocitration> 'I just felt like it.'
[16:30] <ircdearia> Leylite, 'because he can' is the only motivation necessary
[16:31] <Leylite> Give me a break, I can't predict the future that accurately.
[16:32] <Leylite> Maybe he will have had created it as a rebuttal to some other author or LPer.
[16:32] <Leylite> Who can tell?
[16:33] <Isocitration> 'These pancakes represent mankinds desire for internet fame.'
[16:33] <Isocitration> 'The fork sticking out of the top represents a fork.'
[16:35] <Leylite> "The skyscraper is symbolic of the need of the unknown author to make connections with those who are already fabulously wealthy in order to achieve wealth himself."
[16:35] <Leylite> "Art afficianados are still puzzled by the maple syrup."
[16:38] <Isocitration> Just noticed there's no 'cent' symbol on my keyboard.
[16:38] <Isocitration> I feel cheated.
[16:39] <Leylite> On my Macbook, I can press Option-4 to get the cent symbol. I'm not sure what your options are, though.
[16:40] <Isocitration> hmm
[16:40] <Isocitration> Nope no options
[16:40] <Leylite> Oh well. Here, have a cent symbol: ¢
[16:41] <Leylite> You can copy it into a text file and save it, then copy and paste whenever you need it :)
[16:41] <Isocitration> Føtex er da noget nær den værste lorte butik jeg har været udsat for. Jeg handler altid om formidagen fordi der er færrest mennesker, men af og til kommer jeg sent hjem og mangler en eller anden ting som jeg så styrter til den nærmeste butik for at købe. Men i Føtex? Ve den der kommer et minut for tidligt eller for sent. Aldrig er jeg blevet jaget så meget rundt med i et supermarked
[16:41] <Isocitration> og det er umuligt at få hjælp til en skid. Der er heller ikke meget hjælp at hente i de andre butikker som Netto eller Spar, men de lader i det mindste en komme ind hvis man siger til dem at man kun skal hente én ting selvom de egentlig har lukket og man er den sidste der kommer. I Føtex har jeg prøvet at blive skældt ud fordi jeg *GISP!* stod og kikkede på nogle vare som jeg ville købe
[16:41] <Isocitration> når de åbnede resten af butikken (udover bageren) to minutter senere, og jeg har set dem irettesætte en gammel dame og jage hende væk fordi hun *GISPGISP!!!* stod og kikkede på nogle blomster lige overfor deres bager som var åben. Hvis de er så pisse bange for at folk skal stjæle så spær dog de område af der ikke er bageren, eller endnu bedre, lad være med at lukke folk ind overhoved.
[16:41] <Isocitration> Kunderne kan tydeligvis rende dem i røven og man skal pænt spøger om lov til at give dem sine penge.
[16:41] <Isocitration> Men nu gider jeg ikke deres pis længere. Fra nu af handler jeg kun hos dem hvis jeg ikke kan få en ting andre steder, og det er edermanme få ting.
[16:41] <Isocitration> *dyb indånding* Okay, slut på sur galle herfra.
[16:41] <Leylite> O_o
[16:41] <Isocitration> Whoops just ejaculated my 'paste' all over IRC
[16:42] <Leylite> That's a terrible choice of words, and I am no longer interested in the context.
[16:42] <Isocitration> 1¢ yay!
[16:42] <amiller> yay
[16:42] <Leylite> Hooray! Now repear for infinite money.
[16:42] <Leylite> *repeat
[16:43] <Isocitration> 1¢
[16:43] <Isocitration> 1¢
[16:43] <Isocitration> 1¢
[16:43] <Isocitration> 1¢
[16:43] <Isocitration> 1¢
[16:43] <Isocitration> Ok I'll stop
[16:43] <Leylite> Maybe you should be taking those to the bank instead :)
[16:43] <Leylite> the IRC text-to-coins bank
[16:43] <Isocitration> My 6¢ will follow me forever!
[16:44] <Isocitration> Forever trailing behind as I stride into the setting sun...
[16:44] <Leylite> Like ducklings, or like RPG party members?
[16:45] <Isocitration> Like bugged out link blocks
[16:46] == Beret [beret@canonical/beret] has left #beret ["Ex-Chat"]
[16:47] <Isocitration> hmm new humble bundle
[16:48] <ircdearia> Earlier from private messages:
[16:48] <ircdearia> <mizerydearia> Hello Beret.  Are you using #beret channel?  If not, is it possible it could be used by a growing community with the same name?
[16:48] <ircdearia> <Beret> yes, it's possible
[16:48] <ircdearia> <mizerydearia> Okay.  Thanks.
[16:48] <ircdearia> <Beret> what community btw?
[16:48] <ircdearia> <mizerydearia> http://kiwisauce.com/beret/
[16:48] <ircdearia> <Beret> sweet
[16:48] <ircdearia> <Beret> yes, absolutely
[16:49] <Leylite> Sounds good
[16:51] <Isocitration> I like how happy s/he was when you linked the website.
[16:55] <Isocitration> http://forum.starmen.net/forum/General/BFG/Hatoful-Boyfriend
[16:59] <Leylite> Alright, on a completely unrelated note to Isocitration's link, I'm going to go get some food.
[16:59] <Isocitration> Fine, be that way! xD