The intricacies of the social system explained with Rimworld

#rimworld
<tubuliferous> So I've only been playing for a few days...
<Fleischy> I see I see
<tubuliferous> but I read an article about anger directed at Rimworld from the LGBTQ community
<Fleischy> then you might just want to play vanilla for a while
<tubuliferous> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking n
<Fleischy> lol theyre always angry at something, overprivileged spoiled children
<tubuliferous> Well, I don't know...
<tubuliferous> it's kinda funny...
<tubuliferous> and maybe also grimly realistic
<Fleischy> rimworld is a work of art and dont let any gender bender crybaby tell you otherwise
<tubuliferous> So the specific issue...
<tubuliferous> and maybe this has been modified since early access...
<Fleischy> rimworld is the tool that lets our inner sadistic cannibal/organ merchant/corpse eater out
<tubuliferous> was basically that gay people were making colonists sad
<tubuliferous> there weren't many gay characters...
<Fleischy> they make me sad when they make stupid claims like that
<tubuliferous> so they couldn't easily pair off...
<Fleischy> they've ruined so many movies, tv shows, games because of their whining
<Fleischy> i don't know why people even care about what they say
<tubuliferous> and the advances of straight characters were therefore rebuffed again and again...
<Fleischy> kinda realistic, isn't it
<tubuliferous> right...
<tubuliferous> and so the upshot...
<tubuliferous> was that gay characters made colonies sad overall
<Fleischy> I meaaaaaaan
<Fleischy> they probably would irl
<tubuliferous> and there was incentive to imprison and execute them
<Fleischy> a colonist doesnt need to be gay for me to imprison and execute them
<Fleischy> i do that to anyone
<tubuliferous> hahaha
<tubuliferous> right...
<Fleischy> i'm fair like that
<tubuliferous> but the point was that there was actually consistent incentive to target gays specifically
<Fleischy> wah wah wah
<tubuliferous> so this brings up some interesting questions...
<Fleischy> they always like playing victim for no reason
<tubuliferous> is there a real-world parallel?
<tubuliferous> but I'm thinking...
<Fleischy> probably
<Fleischy> you gotta ask yourself why are all the conservative cultures even today are strongly against LGBT
<tubuliferous> maybe gayness in a community is only a problem when its hidden
<Fleischy> in fact most of the world is, aside from the western culture (western europe and north america)
<tubuliferous> right...
<tubuliferous> why does anybody care?
<tubuliferous> and maybe this is it
<Fleischy> it's only a problem when whiny kids keep playing the victim card when it's really a personal problem, not a sexual preference one
<Fleischy> it's a fake issue
<tubuliferous> maybe on some level having gay people people actually does hurt society
<tubuliferous> which sounds like a terrible thing to say...
<Fleischy> now hold on there hitler junior
<tubuliferous> but hear me out...
<tubuliferous> in the rimworld universe it would only be a problem if it wasn't obvious that a character was gay...
<Fleischy> I dont think that's something that's easy to hide
<Fleischy> even in survival conditions
<tubuliferous> if a person was openly gay in rimworld, I'm guessing, that character wouldn't cause so much sadness
<Fleischy> yeah I have a gay character in my current colony but she's one of my top skilled colonists and never causes problems
<tubuliferous> the straight characters would no not to try with those gay characters
<tubuliferous> I'm thinking that dynamic might have been adjusted...
<tubuliferous> because of the negative press
<Fleischy> rimworld has a lot of absurd mood debuffs
<tubuliferous> So anyway, my thesis is...
* kmaj (~kmaj@kmaj.users.quakenet.org) has joined
<tubuliferous> open gayness is better for society =D
<kmaj> hmm
<Fleischy> hmmm?
<tubuliferous> sorry, kmaj
<tubuliferous> you came in at a weird time
<kmaj> understandable
<Fleischy> i think kmaj can help us reach a solution
<kmaj> yes splendid
<Fleischy> don't you mean open gayness is better for the LGBT?
<Fleischy> not necessarily for the entire society
<Fleischy> do you see gay people hitting on straight people irl
<tubuliferous> Long story short, Rimworld received some negative press because of an unintentional social dynamic that favored the elimination of gay Rimworld characters
<Fleischy> i think the eliminations part is the fault of the players not the game
<Fleischy> like the game doesnt force you to kill your own colonists
<tubuliferous> Oh sure...
<Fleischy> as I said, rimworld lets our inner satan out
<tubuliferous> but basically it did unintentionally make gay characters undesirable to the group
<tubuliferous> in Rimworld gay people actually did erode society
<Fleischy> for example I like to imprison and beat the shit out of colonists that develop drug addictions
<kmaj> they could have avoided the controversy by not adding gay colonists in the first place, think about it
<tubuliferous> Yeah, but that's less interesting, kmaj
<Fleischy> that would cause an even bigger uproar
<Fleischy> think of all the modern games today that have a large playerbase
<kmaj> there can't be an uproar if there's no event to trigger it
<Fleischy> remember BF5
<tubuliferous> I actually love that these weird little social dynamics emerge from fairly simple rules
<Fleischy> you gotta have your quota of cripples gays blacks and asians or you'll get shat on
<tubuliferous> but I was extrapolating to society at large...
<tubuliferous> I mean real human society
<kmaj> bf5 was like that because ea wanted it like that
<tubuliferous> I think Rimworld might have hit on something...
<kmaj> this says a lot about our society
<Fleischy> well gays have never been eliminated from any human society, even the ultra conservative ones
<tubuliferous> Oh, they absolutely have
<kmaj> not even in chechenia
<tubuliferous> People have been executed for homosexuality in particularly hardline societies
<tubuliferous> and I've always been confused about why anybody cares that much
<Fleischy> yes but that's only a small part
<Fleischy> well it's probably just the way they behave
<tubuliferous> even in less hardline societies...
<tubuliferous> people seem to care about it more than they should
<Fleischy> and also because they're not "part of the majority"
<Fleischy> since the majority is still straight and white
<tubuliferous> and the question is...why?
<tubuliferous> depends on the society =D
<tubuliferous> I'm guessing you're American
<Fleischy> well ok i'm still mostly talking about the western world
<Fleischy> indeed
<tubuliferous> anyway, I'm utterly fascinated by this...
<tubuliferous> of course Rimworld can't actually model the full complexity of the real human world...
<Fleischy> as I said, whether it's sexuality or anything else, the majority is always disgusted at minorities, depending on what it is we're talking about, in varying degrees
<tubuliferous> yet...hahaha
<tubuliferous> but...
<tubuliferous> maybe there are some interesting insights that shone through uninentionally
<tubuliferous> *unintentionally
<Fleischy> such as............
<tubuliferous> Like some hints to why homosexuality is attacked
<Fleischy> odd question
<tubuliferous> Yeah
<Fleischy> first of all, just because it's different to the majority's setting is enough to be targeted
<tubuliferous> but I'm not seeing anybody asking it
<tubuliferous> what is the root of anti-homosexual sentiment in society?
<Fleischy> second of all it reduces birth rates which has been very important for countries in the previous centuries, it's not that important now
<tubuliferous> do you think it's just an interfacing thing?
<tubuliferous> I mean...
<tubuliferous> people want social elements standardized to make life easier, maybe
<tubuliferous> like how we all want the same electronic ports standardized...
<Fleischy> thirdly it goes against the "overall assumption" as to how youre going to live your life
<tubuliferous> just for simplicity
<Fleischy> see in conservative societies your entire life is planned out for you by the society
<Fleischy> and being gay and everything involved in that is not part of the plan
<tubuliferous> I suppose that's more efficient in some ways
<tubuliferous> because everybody knows what to expect
<Fleischy> yes
<tubuliferous> and they can talk the same social language
<Fleischy> thats why everyone wants to get you to try to be "normal"
<Fleischy> so that you can be predictable
<Fleischy> which makes you easier to surpass
<tubuliferous> I suppose the risks in such societies are due to a lack of robustness
<tubuliferous> I mean, if conditions change...
<tubuliferous> and the old paradigms don't work...
<Fleischy> work for hwat
<tubuliferous> there isn't a diverse pool of alternative social strategies to draw from
<Fleischy> is there a goal of any society other than to exist
<tubuliferous> for survival of the group, I suppose
<tubuliferous> good point...
<Fleischy> and in modern times in the western world there is no threat to existing, sort of
<tubuliferous> and now we have to get into a discussion of hierarchies of nested evolutionary selection
<Fleischy> I mean there's the nuclear end of the world but that's outside of the control of individual societies
<tubuliferous> and hence the beauty of Rimworld...
<tubuliferous> and now I can justify playing it
<tubuliferous> it forces an examination of social dynamics
<Fleischy> there was no justification needed
<Fleischy> it simply must be played
<Fleischy> forever