01[10:51] <Honko> you're a bum
[10:51] <Oglemi> n u
01[10:52] <Honko> sticking religiously to usage-based tiers is silly
01[10:52] <Honko> when we could improve the quality of both tiers by reintroducing a little bit of judgment into the process
[10:53] <Oglemi> i mean we could theoretically have tiering votes
[10:53] <Oglemi> for stuff that just won't move on usage
01[10:56] <Honko> that's basically what i'm suggesting
01[10:56] <Honko> although "just won't move" implies you think we should wait until it's been stuck for like a year+, and i dont think being that conservative is necessary
01[10:57] <Honko> if ou thinks it should stay ou, it stays
01[10:57] <Honko> if uu doesn't want it, it stays
01[10:57] <Honko> but if they both agree it makes more sense in uu, and its usage is close to the cutoff anyway, bump it down to uu and see what happens
[10:57] <Oglemi> yeah but what uu wants it but ou doesn't want it to drop
01[10:57] <Honko> then too bad for uu
01[10:58] <Honko> if the OU label is accurate
01[10:58] <Honko> then it should stay OU
01[10:58] <Honko> this should only really apply to things that we think are staying OU because of their label alone, not because they have any real value on good OU teams
01[10:59] <Honko> so for example if we were doing this now for RU/NU, i wouldn't agree with dropping Poliwrath
01[10:59] <Honko> even if nu wants it
01[10:59] <Honko> because it deserves its RU label
[11:00] <Oglemi> the only bad thing is that this requires a return of a council to vote
01[11:00] <Honko> im not really sure that's a bad thing
[11:01] <Oglemi> except picking people for the councils was ass
01[11:01] <Honko> it was ass late in our tier because our tier's good people mostly disappeared a year and a half ago
01[11:02] <Honko> i doubt the other tiers had as much trouble
[11:02] <Oglemi> i disliked it the whole time
01[11:02] <Honko> having a council promotes activity and discussion from the best players
[11:02] <Oglemi> no it didn't lol
01[11:02] <Honko> i think if we had gone to a non-fixed-size council earlier, it would have been better
01[11:02] <Honko> no guaranteed spots
01[11:02] <Honko> just the people who clearly participate and know what they're talking about
01[11:02] <Honko> whether its 3 or 12
01[11:03] <Honko> and it did promote discussion early on
01[11:03] <Honko> we just had an unfortunate talent drain fsr
01[11:04] <Honko> but discussions for like honchkrow council and lilli council and peezy council
01[11:04] <Honko> were all very productive
01[11:04] <Honko> and backed up by people actually playing
[11:04] <Oglemi> yeah and that was also when the tier was newer and in flux
[11:04] <Oglemi> and bw was still new too
01[11:05] <Honko> the tier would be in flux more if we had more potential drops...which this would promote
01[11:07] <Honko> in all honesty i haven't been a fan of most of the council discussions in the past year+
01[11:07] <Honko> but i don't think the cost outweighs the possible benefit
01[11:08] <Honko> of reducing stagnation in the tiers
01[11:08] <Honko> and possibly helping improve the playerbase by removing terrible pokemon from being recommended in tiers they don't belong in
[11:09] <Oglemi> yeah i know the benefits are real