SeiunNov18Chat

Cyberdrive's Seiun IGG Chat log Wednesday November 18.

***General News***
------------------
<CD_tiki> Hey Guys, Pratik from Cyberdrive here. I can start taking questions, Thomas is stuck in a meeting.

<@Narris> CD_Tiki is there any new news on the Seiun, Pro, ProX that we've not heard yet but you'd like to announce here?
 <+CD_tiki> We are also considering a smaller 2.4in touchscreen version (without video features) that will have physical buttons.
 <+CD_tiki> but that will be well after the campaign.
 <+CD_tiki> But seriously that's down the line.

<MarcBR> I'd like to watch some video review of working units of each device. This would help to dispel doubts about the final quality of the products.
 <+CD_tiki> MarcBR we've reached out to a number of reviews who will test the products as the Pre-Mass Production samples come in.

<MarcBR> How long do you think is it going to take before we can watch those video reviews?
 <+CD_tiki> We'll have the Pre-Mass Production Samples for the Pro / PRO X in Early Dec. and the PHA in Mid January.

<Captain_poprocks> Does that mean all of the pre-mass production samples are all gone?
 <+CD_tiki> No the first ones for the Seiun Player come in today/tomorrow.

<MarcBR> May I conclude from this that the first video reviews will not come out before the campaign's end?
 <+CD_tiki> MarcBR__ for the Pro/Pro X - yes those won't be out before the end of the campaign (because it takes time for them to edit and post).

<ABC123__> Will your USB-C to HDMI cable be a proprietary cable?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ initially that cable will be, however we won't be using any proprietary specs, we anticipate that as the market for USB-type-C grows the cable will become standard.

<ABC123__> What will be the cost of replacement USB-C to HDMI cables?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ Sorry, I don't have an estimated price for the cables.

<ABC123__> Will there be any tracking/analytic built-in to your OS?  I.e.  Will you be tracking/profiling our listening habits in order to sell the data to advertisers (or data brokers) ?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ nah...that's super creepy in our book.
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ there will be bug reporting though.

<bp> @CD_tiki: will this campaign end up as another geekwave player?
 <+CD_tiki> bp unofficial answer: http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Hell-Naw-GIF.gif
 <+CD_tiki> bp official answer: no, that's why we've made a lot of decisions we have, we want to avoid delaying the schedule we learned pretty quickly that the crowdfunding community was severely burned by the Geekwave campaign.
 <+CD_tiki> While we have a ton of respect for the LHL team, we've prioritized getting out products made without compromising on quality & commitment schedules.

<ABC123__> There are SOME delays that are worth the wait.  E.g.  aptX support.  :)
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ from my understanding of the technology its an issue of licensing their codec (software) thus could be integrated via software update.
	<ABC123__> CD_tiki:  My understanding is you need hardware support + licence.
	<+CD_tiki> ABC123__ working out those licensing deals, (esp with companies like CSR which is owned by qualcomm) often takes a lot of time.

<ABC123__> Will you change your stretch goals again?  As bad as the previous ones were the new ones are worse.  Stretch goals shouldn't be completely new products that backers have to pay more for, they should be extras/upgrades to the product they already bought.
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ We might consider adding cases for free, however we're still sourcing a manufacture for those.

<bunnypangsai> cool. when will PROTOTYPE of both Seiun ProX and PHA be shown working?
 <+CD_tiki> Soon, we'll have our Pre-Mass Production units in early December.
 <+CD_tiki> for the PHA it will be closer to January time.

<bunnypangsai> will there be any case that allow user to stack both Seiun Pro x and PHA together?
<bunnypangsai> and not get scratched since I assume both are made of aluminium
 <+CD_tiki> bunnypangsai that's a good idea, right now our plan on making a leather sleeve for the player, a sports armband for the player and a bumper case for the Pro/Pro X.

<azuiru> during the last chat, its said you'll upload some more pictures, will it be available soon?
 <+CD_tiki> Azuiru, we uploaded some pictures of the units in different colors, we'll get some more renders soon!
 <+CD_tiki> *along with screen protectors.
	<azuiru> oh...so those WERE the pictures said last time...
	 <+CD_tiki> *but a 'combo case' would be a great idea.

<@Narris> CD_tiki, do you feel you've learned a lot from running this campaign so far? How will it shape future campaigns for your company?
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris next time I'm definitely gonna try and make sure I catch up on sleep before the campaign :P.
 <+CD_tiki> but know seriously, I've learned a ton from running the campaign. I think next time we'll try have a more focused stretch goal plan ahead of time.

***Seiun Player***
------------------

<@Narris> cd_tiki the small Seiun player now has 16gb internal correct?
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris correct the Seiun Player has 16GB, also the colours are all still available for free plus the RAM has been upgraded.

<Captain_poprocks> will the Seiun include speakers or only a headphone port?
 <+CD_tiki> Captain_poprocks we'll have a small speaker for system notifications.

<ABC123__> Does the Seiun Player also have Type-C port, or only the Pro/ProX ?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ the Seiun uses micro USB for charging + connecting to your computer.

<facesso> I see there a some good pics of your Seiun Player on Cyberdrives website. When can we expect to see similar mock photos  for the Pro/ProX?
<facesso> https://cyberdrive.us/index.php/en/seuin-player/view/15:seuin-player
 <+CD_tiki> facesso http://cyberdrive.audio/
 <+CD_tiki> that is our current website, the cyberdrive.us website was one we built when we were exploring switching away from Shopify, but ultimately decided not to go with, sorry for the confusion!

<ABC123__> Will there be some kind of playlist support for the Seiun?  Or just folder based playback?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ the basic Seiun is just folder based playback.
 <+CD_tiki> however the Pro / PRO X will have full playlist (including smart playlist) and play queue functions.

<ABC123__> Is the output of the Seiun good enough to feed into good speakers?  (since it doesn't use the ESS Sabre)
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ yes, allaeius is correct, most speakers have their own amps built in so you'll get great sound out of most speakers.


***Seiun Pro/ProX***
--------------------

<Captain_poprocks> @CD_tiki would you recommend upgrading the internal storage or buying an sd card to upgrade?
 <+CD_tiki> Captain_poprocks, depending on how big/what format your collection is in.

<lo_tse> Just to confirm, the Pro X will be fully functional as a stand alone mini-tablet?
 <+CD_tiki> lo_tse yes it will be fully functional as a standalone mini-tablet (we prefer PMP).

<jdog> Cyberdrive, is there any chance that you all will consider adding an HO amp to the Pro/ProX players, in lieu of the PHA option?
 <+CD_tiki> jdog not in this version of the players because it will delay production of those devices.

<ABC123__> What are the chances you will be able to add aptX and AAC codec support for bluetooth streaming?
<ABC123__> Will you support Chromecast Audio ?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ for both those questions I'll have to check with the software team.

<jdog> So is the advantage of the Pro X the screen and connectivity to streaming sites? and the PHA functions (in addition to DAC and amp) as a contained DAP that will play hi-res music?
<Guest84428> CD-tiki, if no video, just listen Hi res music, PHA is enough?
  <+CD_tiki> Depends, on your personal preferences. At this point, the PHA will have a very basic folder based DAP.

<Captain_poprocks> What type of physical buttons will be on the Seiun Pro/Pro X?
 <+CD_tiki> The Physical buttons on the Seiun Pro / Pro X will be volume, & power on off.
 <+CD_tiki> However the Pro / PRO X will also have a touch screen for navigation - whereas the PHA has no touch screen interface.

<ABC123__> Will the Pro X support face USB3 transfer speeds?  Or are you just using USB2 but with a TypeC connector?
 <+CD_tiki> I'll need to confirm that with R&D, however I believe its USB3.

<ABC123__> Will the Pro X be able to connect to a TV via HDMI and speakers via SPDIF  at the same time?  Or is there no SPDIF available if you are using HDMI?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ yes with the mobile media adapter (included) or the media dock you'll be able to run HDMI + SPDIF at the same time.

<facesso> Unfortunately the mock picture for the Pro/ProX hosted on the Cyberdrive.audio website do not include pictures taken from  all sides.
 <+CD_tiki> facesso we'll upload some updated renders of the latest tooling soon.

<rakan> i just want to listen to my CIEM directly out of the Seiun, is the intergrated dac/amp of Seiun good enough?
 <+CD_tiki> rakan , yes the Built-in Dac/Amp for the Seiun Pro / Pro X is definitely good enough to use with your CIEMs.

<hihihellohihi> +CD_tiki: It is true that the power of ProX can increase? Seem not many people like to carry a amp together.
 <+CD_tiki> hihihellohihi not without increasing size dramatically, the battery capacity is directly proportional to the size of the product.

<jdog> So cyberdrive, what you are saying is the ProX is more than adequate for hi-res music playing and PHA is optional if you want DAC function and additional amp for more power-hungry headphones?
 <+CD_tiki> jdog exactly.

	<facesso> In that case will there be a digital connection over the USB C ports? Or will the devices need to leverage the Audio Line In/Out ports?
	 <+CD_tiki> facesso that diagram should help you understand the interface a little better.

<lo_tse> My apology if this question had been raised - so is there no possibility to improve the amp output of the ProX at this point in time
 <+CD_tiki> lo_tse we've looked into it, unfortunately using a separate amp means we won't meet our targets for battery life (It would also cause delays)

<jdog> Cyberdrive, have any more decisions been made re: line out for the ProX/Pro?  Thanks.
 <+CD_tiki> jdog, yes the line out will be through the 3.5MM port.

<@Narris> does the Pro/X have the same recording abilities and mic that the Seiun player does?
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris , yes the Pro/PRO X does have Hi-Res recording functionality.

<ABC123__> Will you support 4K VP9 encoded video?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ I believe we will support VP9 because its natively supported in all android OS over 4.4.

<AndroUser2> CD_tiki: will the dac chip working by using other android player app such as spotify or vlc player? i am afraid that these app will still call Android's system call to decode but not by dac chip.
 <+CD_tiki> AndroUser2, yes that is why we are modifying the Android Firmware so that all the audio produced through the device is decoded through the DAC Chip.

<allaeius> The Pro / Pro X should be fully hardware decoded right?
 <+CD_tiki> Allaeius yes exactly!


<Guest65256> what is the audio output of pro x?
 <+CD_tiki> Guest65256 its 49mW 32 Ω.
  <Guest65256> is it powerful enough to power a good pair a headphone?
	<+CD_tiki> Guest65256  that's good for most consumer headphones, however if you have a really power hungry pair of cans then it would be a better idea to feed the Seiun PRO X through the PHA first.

<ABC123__> Will the Pro / Pro X support a higher quality external mic?
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ the Pro/PRO X will support in line mics.
 <+CD_tiki> however right now it won't be possible to record higher quality (phantom power) mics through eh 3.5MM.
 <+CD_tiki> you might be able to through the USB type-C OTG port in the future, however at launch we won't have that function.
	<ABC123__> Will that be available in a later software update?
	 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ yes that is the plan right now.
		<ABC123__> Seems useless to support high quality recording if you can't pair it with a high quality mic.

<hihihellohihi> Will you consider add physical buttons for Pro/ProX for music playing? It doesn't mention before.
 <+CD_tiki> Not the current version.

<ABC123__> Will you need a Google account to use the Pro / Pro X ?  (not talking about installing more apps, just whatever comes pre-installed)
 <+CD_tiki> ABC123__ not for default devices.

<ABC123__> So the Pro / Pro X have no physical buttons for volume control?
 <+CD_tiki> It will for volume control, just not for music (play/pause/skip).

<Captain_poprocks> what type of usb c cable will come with the Seiun Pro? will it go to standard usb, or usb c?
 <+CD_tiki> Captain_poprocks for it will be usb c to standard usb.

<@Narris> CD_tiki, what are the unlocking functions of the OS device? will it come fully unlocked android?
<@Narris> this question might of been asked before in prior chat.
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris do you mean Root access? We won't be providing it out of the box, however it will be very close to vanilla android so I'm sure you guys will be able to figure it out ;).

<nexranger> CD_tiki: there will be physical volume control buttons for pro/pro x? just no buttons for skip/repeat?
<@Narris> cd_tiki, have you ever thought about a feature like volume UP-DOWN press and HOLD = skip and pause.
<@Narris> if I'm gunna risk the volume going up and down anyway, I might as well risk a feature like long press stops :D.
<nexranger> which can be programmable in the interface ie long hold of up/ down = skip/stop.
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris that's something we can look into having our software team integrate as an optional setting.


***Seiun PHA DAC/AMP***
-----------------------
<MarcBR> I'm lost on the amount of info lately. My single most important question is whether the Seiun players will be strong enough to drive most usual-impedance phones (including their IMPACT DURA), without this PHA thing.

<@Narris> There does seem to be a lot of confusion about what the PHA's function is in the Seiun product line.
 <+CD_tiki> Hey guys, the reason for the PHA is because integrating the higher power amps many requested into the Seiun PRO X would kill the battery life of the Pro / PROX.
 <+CD_tiki> The PHA (while it does have a basic player function) really was never meant to act as a standalone device, I think that's where some of the confusion stems from.

<@Narris> cd_tiki you guys are aware of the confusion on the spelling of the (correct) PHA vs HPA (incorrect) confusion is because of the graphic in the update?
 <+CD_tiki> Yes, I believe that update is probably still in people's inbox however we reuploaded it with the correct acronym.

<allaeius> What is the PHA actually? Is it actually a DAC/amp combo or another audio player?
<allaeius> Because the reply yesterday said it have a built in player.
	<+CD_tiki> Yes, the Seiun Player/Pro/Pro X will have enough impedance to drive most headphones.
	<+CD_tiki> The PHA is a DAC/Amp with a very basic player function built-in right now. The main purpose of the device is for power users to pair with existing devices.
		<allaeius> By very basic, do you mean there's no way to navigate through the music?
		<+CD_tiki> You can navigate, however the interface is optimized for setting selections.
			<allaeius> Also, is there a prototype ready, or renders of it? Is it ready for mass production?
			<+CD_tiki> We'll have the newest drawings in next week, it's still in ID phase.

<hihihellohihi> +CD_tiki: Is that mean PHA can also be a DAP with limited function? That the UI and function of ProX is much better?
 <+CD_tiki> hihihellohihi yes, exactly.

<lo_tse> So there is a CPU in the PHA that can decode PCM or DSD files then?
 <+CD_tiki> lo_tse yes there is a CPU that will decode PCM (384KHz/32bit) and DSD up to 256.

<allaeius> Will the PHA be delivered on time? March 2016?
 <+CD_tiki> Yes, it will go into product immediately following the Seiun Pro / PRO X and right now the schedule for it is End of March Early April.

<@Narris> What is the estimated size of the PHA screen so people can better grasp the concept?
 <+CD_tiki> The size of the device itself is 80 mm width × 29 mm thick × 140.5 mm length.
 <+CD_tiki> and the size of the LCD is 128px * 32px LCD.

<@Narris> CD_Tiki the PHA will not have any type of wireless connectivity or bluetooth correct?
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris the PHA won't have WiFi or Bluetooth.

<sss> So the PHA will just be a portable version of the multi media dock? I'm assuming the multi media dock comes with its own DAC and AMP?
 <+CD_tiki> sss yeah essentially, however without the home-server features.

<@Narris> CD_tiki is the cost of the PHA being so high based on the the large battery?
 <+CD_tiki> @Narris , yes the battery plays a huge role in the cost of that particular device.

<allaeius> I assume there are buttons for UI operations on the PHA?
 <+CD_tiki> alleius , yes there will be nav keys.

<facesso> A few months ago it seems Cyberdrive posted the following picture of a portable DAC on Instagram. Is this a preliminary design of what we may expect for the Seiun PHA? https://instagram.com/p/5oHmS7sgcI/
 <+CD_tiki> facesso No, that is for another product it eventually became the Feather DAC that is on Amazon / our website right now.

<allaeius> CD_tiki: The PHA perk have free shipping? What if I decided to go just for PHA alone?
 <+CD_tiki> allaeius for the PHA alone we'll end up charging the same $15 international shipping.
 <+CD_tiki> (free within the US).

<nexranger> does this mean PHA is an improved product of Seiun Pro X?
 <+CD_tiki> Hey nexranger it is more like a more powerful version of our Feather DAC.
 <+CD_tiki> we see the player function as an ancillary function rather than the main purpose of the device.

<facesso> Will the Seiun PHA support a digital connection between its Micro USB to the Seiun ProX USB C?
 <+CD_tiki> facesso neither the PHA nor the Seiun Pro X have a Micro USB...
 <+CD_tiki> they both use USB Type C.

<facesso> How to we charge the Seiun PHA battery? Using the USB-C or an external power supply?
 <+CD_tiki> facesso , yes over Type C.

<Guest84428> PHA will bundle USB-C to USB-C cable?
 <+CD_tiki> Yeah all the Type-C products will have cables bundled.

<lo_tse> Using the PHA as a DAP, how can one input music files? There is no mention of micro SD card slot.
 <+CD_tiki> yes, there will be a micro SDXC slot.
 <+CD_tiki> along with the 64gb built in.


<allaeius> CD_tiki: will u consider Pro X + PHA bundle discount?
 <+CD_tiki> Allaeius we'll definitely consider bundle deals after the campaign, however for now both devices are really as cheap as we can sell them without losing money.

<rakan> Is there any picture for the PHA, I am not sure how big it is. If it's quite small and convenient to bring to my work office then I may consider ....
 <+CD_tiki> rakan we'll have renders of both devices together hopefully by friday.
 <+CD_tiki> rakan the dimensions for the device will be 80 mm × 29 mm × 140.5 mm to give you a rough idea.

<bp> any updates?
<bp> how's the PHA gonna look like?
 <+CD_tiki> bp we'll have renders & comparison images soon we're waiting on the design team to finish them up.

<Guest65256> also, do you have a picture of the PHA?
 <+CD_tiki> Guest65256 we'll have renders / pictures soon we're waiting on the design team to finish them up.
 <+CD_tiki> Guest65256 we'll also have comparison images of the Seiun Pro/ PRO X with the PHA so you get a better idea of how these devices are meant to work together.

<lo_tse> Not sure whether anyone has commented on the announced spec of the PHA, the information are very unclear?
 <+CD_tiki> We're working to clear up the info as much as we can (we'll be uploading a better looking version of diagram, along with FAQs about the PHA.
 <+CD_tiki> And ASAP we'll have renders along with size comparisons.

<facesso> In that case will there be a digital connection over the USB C ports? Or will the devices need to leverage the Audio Line In/Out ports?
 <+CD_tiki> https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/HXvLce9qTFW1QML3OTjg
 <+CD_tiki> facesso that diagram should help you understand the interface a little better.

<lo_tse> Again, someone probably have raised the question already - the PHA is a DAC + headphone amp or it is a DAP?
 <+CD_tiki> lo_tse its a Dac + Headphone Amp that's meant to be paired with a DAP.
 <+CD_tiki> that being said it does have a very primitive DAP function on a small 128 * 32px screen.

<allaeius> CD_tiki: Still waiting about the balanced output. Like what cables and connectors.
 <+CD_tiki> allaeius yeah it will be 3.5mm stereo mini jacks for the balanced output.

<allaeius> CD_tiki: that means there will be two 3.5mm jack for balanced?
 <+CD_tiki> allaeius yes.

<bunnypangsai> is PHA another player or just a dac amp or both?
 <+CD_tiki> bunnypangsai its main function is a DAC Amp.
 <+CD_tiki> it has a primitive folder based playback function, however it is in no way 'optimized' to be a player.
 <+CD_tiki> bunnypangsai this should give you a better idea : https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/5vVl5jokR2mKBMX85zJG

<azuiru> but some backer did switched from ProX to PHA only because its a more powerful output, or am I wrong?
 <+CD_tiki> Yup Yup.

<allaeius> With so many jacks, how many holes are there now on the PHA?
 <+CD_tiki> allaeius there are quite a few ports & jacks on the PHA.

<bunnypangsai> so I've backed both the Seiun pro x and PHA. will I receive all of them at a go?
<bunnypangsai> will it be early march, mid march or late march?
<bunnypangsai> or will it march away...
 <+CD_tiki> Ideally yes, we really only the the PHA as a device for power users so we don't really anticipate a huge run of them, so most likely we'll deliver those at the same time as the Seiun PRO X.
 <+CD_tiki> We said March/April to give ourselves a little le-way in case we get more orders than we expected.
	<bunnypangsai> so it MAY have a possibility of arriving in late feb?
	<bunnypangsai> or earliest march?
	 <+CD_tiki> possibly, as long as there are no delays in production (due to QC issues)

<MKAA> I am still quite confusing as someone said the PHA have 64GB storage itself and player function, which seems like it is another DAP which can swith as a PHA as well? Is it truth or it is just simply a PHA only ?
<MKAA> because I don't think people would like to have a PHA that can play music which is meaningless for PHA and cause another issue.
 <allaeius> MKAA: It have a very basic folder based player built in.

<MKAA> yah, 9018q2c is too new for us and no one have tried it yet, although ESS said it got SLIMbus which can be push easily with less power, glad to hear it from you though.
<MKAA>  how the performance with Pro/ProX and that PHA connected together
<bunnypangsai> both. I'm asking both the performance and how it's connected physically.
 <+CD_tiki> I haven't gotten my sample of the PHA yet :(.
 <+CD_tiki> So far only Thomas and the R&D team have got to try it out.

<Halo> Is the PHA only support folder based playback??
 <+CD_tiki> Halo , sorry yes the PHA only supports folder based playback.

<bunnypangsai> technically, if the PHA is able to store 64 gb storage, then I have 256GB on Seiun ProX.
<bunnypangsai> so it's 64+256?
 <+CD_tiki> bunnypangsai I'm not sure about that I'll ask our RD lead and get back to you on that.
 <+CD_tiki> however both the Pro/PRO X and PHA support connecting to HDDs.

<bunnypangsai> oh. but can you guys throw in a cable that is just exact length.
<bunnypangsai> it's kinda annoying when one stacks and the cable is too long. it just dangles like some tail.
<bunnypangsai> possible to do a right angled to right angled.
<bunnypangsai> just for portable stack.
 <+CD_tiki> oh, yeah its connected type-c to type-c.
 <+CD_tiki> I don't think we've ordered those cables yet, so that's definitely possible.

<hihihellohihi> If using 3.5mm jack for balanced output of PHA, it seem doesn't need to separate L/R channel into 2 jacks.
<hihihellohihi> CD_tiki: Is there more detail for the output (Impedance/Power) of ProX can provide shortly?
 <+CD_tiki> hihihellohihi to answer your questions, yes, the PHA does have Video pass-through. So if you have it connected to your Seiun via Type-C then you'll be able to pass though the video and amplify the audio.