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coinmama2014

IRC Chat- Q&A with Max & Adam

coinmama2014
Aug 4th, 2014
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  2. [20:00:08] <@iamfx> we will wait some additional 5 minutes for those who are late, is that fine for everyone?
  3. [20:00:10] <quarkcheck> Is Julie here yet
  4. [20:00:16] <quarkcheck> yes
  5. [20:00:19] <MaxGuevara> nice to be here, see some new names here, welcome
  6. [20:00:32] <@cashmen> hello max
  7. [20:00:49] <Orm> Maybe introduce ourselves
  8. [20:00:55] <@cashmen> nice too meet you :)
  9. [20:00:57] <Orm> in short?
  10. [20:01:29] shakezula [~adam@andarazoroflove.org] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  11. [20:01:30] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] hat den Modus +o shakezula gesetzt
  12. [20:01:32] <@iamfx> MaxGuevara, just as an intro: I am going to moderate the session. I thought it would be good to address questions first that I think are quick to answer. Then we can jump into discussions later, will that be ok for you?
  13. [20:01:40] <@cashmen> hi adam
  14. [20:01:42] <MaxGuevara> hi shake
  15. [20:01:45] <@shakezula> allo allo
  16. [20:01:47] <Orm> Hi adam
  17. [20:01:51] <@cashmen> nice to see you
  18. [20:02:16] <MaxGuevara> ok, who is julie?
  19. [20:02:17] <@shakezula> thanks!
  20. [20:02:19] <Netnox> Hi all
  21. [20:02:25] <@cashmen> julie isnt here
  22. [20:02:28] <@cashmen> coinmama
  23. [20:02:35] <MaxGuevara> ok
  24. [20:02:40] <@iamfx> Maybe you can use the time that we are still waiting to peek into the mail that Julie just wrote. We can start shortly after.
  25. [20:02:54] <@cashmen> i made e email to her
  26. [20:03:01] <@cashmen> and said we waitng here
  27. [20:03:02] <@cashmen> :D
  28. [20:03:34] <Orm> women :P
  29. [20:03:49] <@cashmen> oh yes
  30. [20:03:55] <Orm> ;)
  31. [20:03:57] <@cashmen> always need to wait for them ;D
  32. [20:04:08] <@cashmen> but if they come .......
  33. [20:04:12] <@cashmen> fnn
  34. [20:04:14] <@cashmen> fun
  35. [20:04:15] <@cashmen> :)
  36. [20:04:22] <Orm> :)
  37. [20:04:24] <@iamfx> cashmen...have you read Julies statement yet?
  38. [20:04:57] <@cashmen> doing now
  39. [20:04:59] <@cashmen> see email
  40. [20:05:57] <@cashmen> olk i have
  41. [20:06:07] <@cashmen> main thign is clear
  42. [20:06:12] <Netnox> I just wanted to introduce myself since in case Max wondering. I'm the mod at Quark Reddit and also a top 29 holder, you can read about my quark journey here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260031.msg8074768#msg8074768
  43. [20:06:37] coinmama [44c7cb06@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.199.203.6] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  44. [20:06:42] <@cashmen> nice Netnox
  45. [20:06:43] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> hi julie!
  46. [20:06:48] <coinmama> hey all:)
  47. [20:06:49] <@cashmen> hi julie
  48. [20:06:50] <@cashmen> :D
  49. [20:06:53] <quarkcheck> Nice Nethox
  50. [20:06:54] <coinmama> sorry I am late!!
  51. [20:07:10] <coinmama> is everyone here?
  52. [20:07:12] <MaxGuevara> Netnox, thanks for the introduction
  53. [20:07:13] <@iamfx> Ok, I think we can start in a second. Another short intro: I think the last weeks have been bit confusing for large parts of the community. This meeting is certainly one way to get some clearance. You will also see the need for clarity in some of the questions that have been askes by some members. We will go through a list soon. Before, I would like to have everyone introduce in the order of the chatlist, if thats fine
  54. [20:07:13] <@iamfx> for everyone.
  55. [20:07:21] <Orm> hi Julie!
  56. [20:07:25] <@QuarkieFM> where is kolin?
  57. [20:07:26] <MaxGuevara> hi julie
  58. [20:07:34] <coinmama> hey Max:)
  59. [20:07:43] <@iamfx> Cashmen sharts
  60. [20:07:58] <@iamfx> just shortly please
  61. [20:08:23] <fkinglag-mobile> I am a food vendor who accepts 6 cryptos, I put qrk as the first option ahead of BTC because I favor it. My name is also max but call me fkinglag :)
  62. [20:08:25] <@cashmen> hi, i am founder from quarkuniverse and i am top holder of quark and i am since day 1 in quark
  63. [20:08:43] <@iamfx> QuarkieFM?
  64. [20:08:51] <MaxGuevara> fkinglag-mobile: nice, where are you located?
  65. [20:09:09] <fkinglag-mobile> I am working the fair circuit and have a summary of crypto taped up in my Window. I am located in Minnesota, usa
  66. [20:09:27] <fkinglag-mobile> Currently working so I will lurk
  67. [20:09:29] <MaxGuevara> brilliant
  68. [20:09:31] <@iamfx> shakaezula please proceed QuarkieFm seems to be afk
  69. [20:09:48] <@shakezula> im shakezula
  70. [20:09:49] <@shakezula> or adam
  71. [20:09:51] <Orm> Orm, active for Quark since December/January by doing translations for Quark in dutch. Also try to get people interested for Quark by visiting bitcoin meetings in the Netherlands.
  72. [20:09:54] <fkinglag-mobile> I'll try to do what I can to be involved in this discussion
  73. [20:09:59] <fkinglag-mobile> Very busy
  74. [20:10:06] <@shakezula> i do a lot of stuff, and stuff, i also run coinworks.info and we take quark too
  75. [20:10:07] <@shakezula> :)
  76. [20:10:20] <@iamfx> Josh?
  77. [20:10:40] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> Hello, I am the editor of quark universe and i also write for cryptocoinsnews. Quark was the first coin I ever held.
  78. [20:11:03] <@iamfx> Julie
  79. [20:11:21] <coinmama> Julie -active also since december, launched the mobile wallet project, help with promoting and fundraising for different projects--I am a physical therapist in my real life
  80. [20:11:40] <@iamfx> Netnox
  81. [20:11:48] <coinmama> also on Quark Foundation, which needs a bit of structure, lol
  82. [20:12:02] <Netnox> I'm the mod at Quark Reddit and also a top 29 holder, you can read about my quark journey here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260031.msg8074768#msg8074768
  83. [20:12:03] <coinmama> sorry netnox:) go!
  84. [20:12:28] <quarkcheck> I am Hai from QuarkPressTeam, I responsible all the press release in Chinese section and inviting members to Join the Press Team.. and active on Julie's Quark Planet Trello board as well
  85. [20:12:29] <@iamfx> And Quarkcheck
  86. [20:13:07] <quarkcheck> done
  87. [20:13:26] <@iamfx> I am Peter, i became involved in late January and started several promotion projects (videos aso). I am political scientist/sociologist and part time designer
  88. [20:14:03] <@iamfx> So as I said, I will address some quick questions and it would be cool if MaxGuevara could answer them
  89. [20:14:21] <MaxGuevara> ok go ahead
  90. [20:14:29] <@iamfx> First section would be about current events around Mimiccoin
  91. [20:15:02] <@iamfx> We have no knowlege about who coded it but there were some indications that it was some of the Quark coders
  92. [20:15:06] <@iamfx> is that correct?
  93. [20:16:06] <@shakezula> max, was it based on B9?
  94. [20:16:18] <@shakezula> if it came from B9, I wrote it
  95. [20:16:47] <MaxGuevara> i am not associated with mimic, but as far as i can see it is a straight clone of quark/b9 without much change. it would have been easy to create.
  96. [20:17:12] <@shakezula> i didn't write Mimi specifically, but the B9 source was my doing
  97. [20:17:20] <@iamfx> Yes, it really looks like based on B9 but there were some changes needed. So if I understand you right, noone of you was involved creating Mimiccoin out of B9, right?
  98. [20:17:25] <@shakezula> not hard to search/replace the name
  99. [20:17:34] <@iamfx> I was once on a chat with Adam and he said he was working with you Max on testnet for a merge mining coin. We couldnt really track back to what this was referring. B9 probably?
  100. [20:17:41] <@shakezula> that was B9
  101. [20:17:42] <@shakezula> yes
  102. [20:17:45] <MaxGuevara> yes
  103. [20:18:03] promethium [~Promethiu@123-243-123-106.static.tpgi.com.au] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  104. [20:18:17] <@iamfx> Hi promethium. We only started with one question
  105. [20:18:22] <quarkcheck> hi promethium nice to see you here
  106. [20:18:25] <@iamfx> maybe you can shortly introduce yourself to the others
  107. [20:18:32] <coinmama> hey promethium:)
  108. [20:18:34] <promethium> Hi everyone!
  109. [20:18:43] <Orm> hi promethium
  110. [20:19:14] <promethium> I've spent the last 5 miniutes trying to figure out where this meeting is supposed to be!
  111. [20:19:27] <@cashmen> it was wroten in trello
  112. [20:19:33] <@cashmen> with link to here
  113. [20:19:36] <coinmama> was it announced?
  114. [20:19:43] <@cashmen> yes i did it
  115. [20:19:52] <@iamfx> I also want to add (just to be clear) that I wont address all questions that were collected in advance, as I feel like being able to answer them on my own. If you feel like I missed some, you can ask them after I finished.
  116. [20:20:13] <quarkcheck> thanks Peter..
  117. [20:20:13] <coinmama> besides trello? is this open to all and does Kolin know?
  118. [20:20:20] <@cashmen> yes
  119. [20:20:24] <@cashmen> all on teello knows it
  120. [20:20:44] <@iamfx> I was away all day and busy laest 3 days so I couldnt take care of that. Hopefully someone else dod
  121. [20:20:45] <@iamfx> did
  122. [20:20:47] <coinmama> ok can we proceed?
  123. [20:20:50] <@iamfx> Ok, next question
  124. [20:20:53] <@cashmen> wait
  125. [20:20:57] <@cashmen> who is promethium
  126. [20:21:11] <promethium> I am me
  127. [20:21:15] <coinmama> lol!
  128. [20:21:17] <@cashmen> nice
  129. [20:21:22] <@cashmen> good to meet you
  130. [20:21:36] <@iamfx> oh, so we all introduced ourselves. Maybe you can drop a line (thought you already did)
  131. [20:21:39] <promethium> It is a pleasure to meet you also
  132. [20:21:44] <coinmama> promethium is a Quarker involved with the song contest, etc..
  133. [20:21:49] <@cashmen> nice
  134. [20:21:50] <@cashmen> thx
  135. [20:21:50] <coinmama> and very supportive!
  136. [20:22:13] <@iamfx> Ok, I think I can move on :)
  137. [20:22:14] <quarkcheck> nice promethium..glad to meet you here
  138. [20:22:18] <coinmama> helped very much with the mobile wallet thread too, very constructive!!
  139. [20:22:22] <quarkcheck> yes.. Peter
  140. [20:22:23] <quarkcheck> Thanks Max and Adam for answering the first question.. So it is clear that Someone else has coded Mimic coin based on B9
  141. [20:22:28] <quarkcheck> right?
  142. [20:23:03] <@iamfx> Max, are you aware of Kolins behaviour with regard to mimiccoin? There were some posts that read as if you would have already agreed to merge mine with mimic
  143. [20:23:20] <@iamfx> however
  144. [20:23:26] <coinmama> Kolin makes it sound that way yes..
  145. [20:23:38] <@iamfx> as far as I see, no changes have to be made with Quark when it comes to merge mining, right?
  146. [20:23:49] <MaxGuevara> there is nothing that can be done to prevent another coin to merge mine with Quark
  147. [20:24:05] <@iamfx> Ok, thats what I thought
  148. [20:24:41] <@iamfx> Next question is with regard to checkpointing
  149. [20:24:44] <@iamfx> in Quark
  150. [20:24:46] <Orm> no
  151. [20:24:47] <quarkcheck> Max, Do you mean that there is no need for Quark code change at all for merged mine to work?
  152. [20:24:53] <@iamfx> ok sorry, go ahead
  153. [20:24:54] <Orm> peter
  154. [20:25:32] <MaxGuevara> yes
  155. [20:25:37] <Orm> first question is not answered
  156. [20:25:49] <MaxGuevara> only the merged mined coin need special changes
  157. [20:26:01] <@iamfx> Orm, could you point out, please?
  158. [20:26:21] <quarkcheck> then how will quark increase its hash rate as well by the merged mined coin?
  159. [20:26:23] <@cashmen> [20:23:03] <@iamfx> Max, are you aware of Kolins behaviour with regard to mimiccoin? There were some posts that read as if you would have already agreed to merge mine with mimic
  160. [20:26:24] <Orm> Max, are you aware of Kolins behaviour with regard to mimiccoin
  161. [20:26:37] <coinmama> here is the link to Mimic- if anyone is following? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=657528.100
  162. [20:26:39] <@iamfx> ok, one after another. First Hai, then Orm
  163. [20:27:07] <coinmama> the link was in regards to behaviour
  164. [20:27:23] <MaxGuevara> yeah, we can't really control what he says can we.
  165. [20:27:32] <quarkcheck> Yeah, I was saying how could Quark increase the hashrate by the merged mined coin without any code change?
  166. [20:27:51] <quarkcheck> do they share the same block chain?
  167. [20:27:57] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> Also, see Mimic's post this morning: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=657528.100
  168. [20:28:11] <@iamfx> please, people, one after another
  169. [20:28:21] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> sorry
  170. [20:28:43] <MaxGuevara> when another coin merge mines with quark, the quark hash rate increases by the hash rate of the other coin
  171. [20:29:27] <MaxGuevara> no, they each have their own block chain
  172. [20:29:53] <quarkcheck> sorry, i am just asking dummy questions, but how did quark hash rates increased by the other coin?
  173. [20:30:03] <quarkcheck> they have to share sth, don't they?
  174. [20:30:14] <MaxGuevara> sth?
  175. [20:30:22] <@iamfx> quarkcheck, it just means: When you mine Xcoin you also mine Quark
  176. [20:30:23] <quarkcheck> some connections
  177. [20:30:30] <quarkcheck> ok
  178. [20:30:31] <quarkcheck> got it
  179. [20:30:36] <quarkcheck> thanks Peter
  180. [20:30:45] <@iamfx> ok, then re: Orms question
  181. [20:30:46] <quarkcheck> Now I understood thanks Max as well
  182. [20:30:54] <@iamfx> I think Max commented on it already
  183. [20:30:55] <Orm> is answered Peter
  184. [20:31:00] <@iamfx> right
  185. [20:31:11] <@iamfx> then we proceed with the checkpointing
  186. [20:31:20] <coinmama> In regards to the statement I have sent out in advance of this meeting--Max, are you in favor of a project in which there is clear manipulation of the commuity going on, that may cause a loss of public face in the community, as well as key members?
  187. [20:31:50] <@iamfx> this is re: mimiccoin, so I give it a pass ;)
  188. [20:32:01] <@iamfx> sorry if I am going to fast
  189. [20:32:30] <MaxGuevara> i do not publicly endorse mimiccoin, i only endorse quark, but as i said, there is nothing stopping mimiccoin from merge mining with quark. i don't know how many miners they have, so it might not even be a big boost to quark.
  190. [20:33:06] <@iamfx> also coinmama, fact is that nothing can be done to "prevent" merge mining
  191. [20:33:16] <@iamfx> it is only a question of personal endorsement
  192. [20:33:49] <quarkcheck> Got it..
  193. [20:34:01] <@iamfx> can I proceed?
  194. [20:34:14] <quarkcheck> I guess we are still used to the idea of "No way of preventing merged mine form other coin"
  195. [20:34:30] <quarkcheck> I mean in process of get used to
  196. [20:34:36] <quarkcheck> Yes Peter , I think so
  197. [20:34:39] <@cashmen> peter what about quastions ? should we not better ask in end our quastions ?
  198. [20:34:45] <quarkcheck> Unless Julie has other questions
  199. [20:34:48] <@cashmen> cause so we will not proceed
  200. [20:34:58] <coinmama> ok, I suppose my concern is that Kolin speaks as if this is a project in which u are supporting, when he makes statments like "we will let you know what we come up with"
  201. [20:35:04] <@iamfx> cashmen. You can add them to the document or ask them after I finished
  202. [20:35:35] <coinmama> he in indicating u in the "we" to the observer- so I was just clarifying that
  203. [20:36:03] <coinmama> ok proceed
  204. [20:36:08] <@iamfx> There were indications that checkpointing havent been done by you personally but by another hired developer other than Adam. Is that correct?
  205. [20:36:30] <MaxGuevara> i've done all the checkpoints so far
  206. [20:36:38] <quarkcheck> Nice
  207. [20:37:23] <@iamfx> so there was no other coder involved
  208. [20:37:59] <MaxGuevara> no, i do the manual checkpoints and run the dynamic checkpointing node personally
  209. [20:38:07] <@iamfx> coinmama, can you quote from the email you forwarded with regard to checkpointing?
  210. [20:38:32] <@iamfx> in the meantime I will address one of my questions re: checkpointing
  211. [20:38:49] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat den Server verlassen: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
  212. [20:38:51] <coinmama> kolin indicated that he hired someone somewhere because it wasnt beign done and we were under threat
  213. [20:39:46] <MaxGuevara> no, i'm the only one with access to the github
  214. [20:40:06] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  215. [20:40:11] <coinmama> I figured it was just something that he had done to assist u and that u added it to the git
  216. [20:40:20] <coinmama> the code, via the git i mean
  217. [20:40:58] <coinmama> seemed reasonable to me
  218. [20:41:45] <MaxGuevara> nah, you can see from the git history if the code was from a pull request or directly from me
  219. [20:41:52] Die Verbindung zum Server wurde verloren
  220. [20:42:01] cashmen [cashmen@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-exqtcndzatygmddl] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  221. [20:42:01] Channel-Thema ist: welcome to quarkuniverse team
  222. [20:42:01] Das Thema wurde von cashmen!~cashmen@199.175.50.35 am Do. Apr 10 08:22:50 2014 gesetzt
  223. [20:42:02] <quarkcheck> I think Max
  224. [20:42:04] <@iamfx> I think that would help
  225. [20:42:07] <quarkcheck> just confirmed it
  226. [20:42:08] kornbluth.freenode.net [*@*] hat den Channel-Modus +cnt gesetzt
  227. [20:42:08] Der Channel wurde am Mi. Apr 9 10:39:55 2014 erstellt
  228. [20:42:11] Channel in 10.0 Sekunden synchronisiert
  229. [20:42:24] <quarkcheck> I think Max just confirmed it is his own code
  230. [20:42:55] <@iamfx> Anyway i could be good so there is no misunderstanding that the information from the mail was incorrect
  231. [20:43:00] <Orm> i'm not blowing my own horn here - but at a critical period in the like of Quark - I took action and paid a developer because i knew at that time Max was laming it and wouldn't do it in time - so i found this guy that i had a bit of a relationship with before - we sourced out the code and we got - automatic dynamic checkpointing installed in Quark - and we got Sunnyking to look at it - basically it was the thing that probably save
  232. [20:43:20] <@shakezula> hahaha
  233. [20:43:36] <@shakezula> the git commit logs don't lie
  234. [20:43:42] <@shakezula> people do.
  235. [20:43:49] <coinmama> so this is an untrue statement?
  236. [20:44:18] <MaxGuevara> the story with dynamic checkpointing is that i personally ported it from 0.6 peercoin code base to 0.8 quark code base. i actually got sunnyking's official go-ahead (copyright wise) to use his code in quark.
  237. [20:44:26] <@shakezula> one can simply visit the github and look back through the commits to see who plugged in the code
  238. [20:44:32] <promethium> Who's made that statement?
  239. [20:44:37] <@iamfx> Kolin
  240. [20:44:41] <@shakezula> and as max just stated, the copyright info is directly in the code
  241. [20:44:58] <@iamfx> its good to have this confirmed
  242. [20:45:01] <@shakezula> it was right after we changed the branding from Quarkcoin to Quark
  243. [20:45:10] <quarkcheck> Glad we got that clear up
  244. [20:45:31] <@iamfx> I dont see anything to add so can I proceed?
  245. [20:45:35] <MaxGuevara> kolin was pestering me every day to add new checkpoints though. he was convinced someone was going to attack quark.
  246. [20:45:35] <coinmama> yes, because it actually seemed like a reasonable statement, and now I see it is another lie--what else is new? naive me i guess, haha
  247. [20:45:40] <promethium> It was probably the mushrooms going around at the time
  248. [20:45:51] <@iamfx> :)
  249. [20:46:05] <@iamfx> may I?
  250. [20:46:08] <quarkcheck> yes
  251. [20:46:17] <@iamfx> As you are the one who does the checkpointing, do you understand that people consider this fact as "centralized" as it depends on actions of an individual (you)
  252. [20:47:19] Orm [~QuarkFan@dhcp-077-248-126-074.chello.nl] hat den Server verlassen: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
  253. [20:47:29] <MaxGuevara> yes, this is the best of a bad situation. wallets can actually run without checkpointing if they do not trust the source of checkpoints. the alternative is no checkpoints, which makes attacks much more likely.
  254. [20:47:59] <@shakezula> not really though, the autocheckpointing does rely on privelaged nodes, but one doesn't have to input them manually
  255. [20:48:20] <@shakezula> its not much different from max adding a checkpoint to github and pushing a new build hourly
  256. [20:49:19] <@iamfx> can you shortly explain how automated checkpointing works and in how far this would diminish the role of an individual person?
  257. [20:50:26] <MaxGuevara> basically like shakezula said, it is like adding a checkpoint with every new block that is mined. the network can continue without checkpoints, but then it is solely protected by the hash rate
  258. [20:51:34] <@iamfx> The question is once we rely on checkpoints (which we do due to a low hashrate) do we rely on safety granted by an individual?
  259. [20:52:01] <@iamfx> if not, that¥s fine, if yes this would somehow tackle the idea of a decentralized network.
  260. [20:52:23] <MaxGuevara> it is unfortunately the nature of checkpoints, they are centralised. even bitcoin adds checkpoints centralised.
  261. [20:52:33] <@iamfx> ok
  262. [20:52:49] <@iamfx> to me thats what I expected, so I have no more answers on this issue.
  263. [20:52:55] <@iamfx> Anyone else? Otherwise I proceed
  264. [20:52:57] <quarkcheck> so right now
  265. [20:53:03] <quarkcheck> who maintains
  266. [20:53:10] <quarkcheck> that privelaged nodes
  267. [20:53:11] <quarkcheck> ?
  268. [20:53:16] <MaxGuevara> me
  269. [20:53:26] <quarkcheck> ok.. thanks Max ..
  270. [20:53:34] <@iamfx> Right
  271. [20:53:34] <quarkcheck> No further questions from me
  272. [20:53:49] <@iamfx> I think this leads to questions regarding the hashrate which also includes the general question about the future of Quark
  273. [20:54:31] <@iamfx> The main problem seems to be that due to the quick decrease of block rewards and a currently low value we will have to deal with a low hashrate.
  274. [20:55:04] <@iamfx> Do you see other options than having another coin to merge mine/"work" for Quark e.g. forking to PoW/PoS?
  275. [20:55:10] <@iamfx> just asking technically
  276. [20:55:16] <@iamfx> not if you have the time to do it
  277. [20:55:45] <fkinglag-mobile> Would increasing transaction fees attribute enough incentive to mine?
  278. [20:56:27] <MaxGuevara> from the suggestions i've heard, i'm not opposed to a random lotto-type reward, as long as it doesn't increase inflation to much, i.e. some random blocks have reward higher than 1
  279. [20:56:52] <@iamfx> are you referring to superblocks?
  280. [20:57:13] <MaxGuevara> yes
  281. [20:57:19] <quarkcheck> But that also means hard fork of Quark no?
  282. [20:57:23] <MaxGuevara> yes
  283. [20:57:28] <promethium> If they were spaced out enough there would be little impact on inflation
  284. [20:57:43] <MaxGuevara> yes, that's what i was thinking
  285. [20:58:29] <@iamfx> Could you comment on the implementation of PoW/PoS? I know that this step would be bigger than just changing the reward structure but it is possible that we need to deal with harsh measures
  286. [20:59:17] <MaxGuevara> i'm not a big fan of PoS, due to some security concerns.. dynamic checkpointing was initially developed to deal with shortcomings in PoS.
  287. [20:59:53] <coinmama> This is interesting! re: changing the rewards
  288. [21:00:15] <@iamfx> I recently talked to tacotime, the developer of MC2 because I really liked the vote-with-coins concept. He is developing PoW/PoS with advantage given to PoW. Do you know the whitepaper (have been around for some time)
  289. [21:00:43] <@iamfx> ?
  290. [21:00:43] <promethium> No PoS
  291. [21:00:44] <MaxGuevara> no i have not
  292. [21:00:48] <@iamfx> ok
  293. [21:01:12] <@iamfx> Could you shortly address the security issues you see with POS?
  294. [21:02:46] <MaxGuevara> sorry, i'm not an expert on PoS, i know how it fundamentally works, but i have read credible posts regarding attacks against PoS
  295. [21:03:07] <coinmama> I did not realize that u would consider a fork to change the rewards--If this is possible to be implemented, would u consider suggestions put forth by the community? If so, I can bring it forward as a discussion.
  296. [21:03:36] <coinmama> sorry Peter if u had other questions on POS, I hit enter too soon maybe, lol
  297. [21:03:41] <@iamfx> no
  298. [21:03:47] <@iamfx> was fine
  299. [21:04:13] <@cashmen> what attacks on pos? wich exactly?
  300. [21:04:34] <MaxGuevara> yes coinmama, we can discuss with the community. the superblocks should be large enough to encourage people to mine (like a lotto winning), but sparse enough so that inflation doesn't go too high
  301. [21:05:51] <coinmama> yes this sounds like it could be reasonable--however would it require any changes re: exchanges or changing any infrastructure we currently have
  302. [21:05:52] <coinmama> ?
  303. [21:07:17] <MaxGuevara> pools and exchanges just need to update to the latest daemon
  304. [21:07:35] <MaxGuevara> android wallets and such will require changes to their code
  305. [21:07:55] <coinmama> When the original merge mine project was being discussed I thought a new coin might be able to have something like this to increase the hashrate..but again I was advised that u would probably not consider such an idea--always best to go to the source, lol
  306. [21:08:18] <coinmama> ok I see
  307. [21:08:47] <Netnox> How much reward should we approximately imagine for a superblock by meaning more then 1
  308. [21:09:02] <coinmama> good question
  309. [21:09:39] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat den Server verlassen: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
  310. [21:10:17] <MaxGuevara> we will have to look at the inflation and see how much we're willing to make it rise, but maybe blocks of up to 512 qrk reward or such.. i'm open to suggestions, we just have to do the calculations.
  311. [21:10:18] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  312. [21:10:55] <@iamfx> ok
  313. [21:11:34] <@iamfx> can we come back to the question of cashmen? To get more into detail on the POS flaws
  314. [21:11:57] <Netnox> yes
  315. [21:11:58] <@iamfx> then we can move on
  316. [21:12:56] <MaxGuevara> regardless of flaws or not in PoS, it is a substantial change which i'm not really supportive of
  317. [21:13:55] <@iamfx> because it is changing to much?
  318. [21:14:30] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat den Server verlassen: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
  319. [21:14:34] <MaxGuevara> yes
  320. [21:15:22] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  321. [21:15:31] <@iamfx> Cashmen?
  322. [21:15:36] <@cashmen> yes
  323. [21:15:39] <@iamfx> can I move on?
  324. [21:15:42] <@cashmen> yes we can
  325. [21:15:45] <@iamfx> ok
  326. [21:15:49] <@iamfx> One issue that was raised was an outlook to Quark. Currently people are looking for a prospect that would save their investments. So if we come up with a solution people want it to be as safe as possible. Beside the hashrate issue people need to be sure about the dedication of the developers. Most of us are very pleased that this conversation we are having takes place at all. From what we understood both of you, Max and
  327. [21:15:49] <@iamfx> Adam, you have other projects and dedicate time to this once you have a free slot. Do you see the possibility to become more active if the community pays you?
  328. [21:18:37] <MaxGuevara> i only work on the core wallet code, which i do for free and will continue to do for the foreseeable future. i unfortunately do not have time for other projects (e.g. web related work, pools, promotions, social media, etc)
  329. [21:19:14] <@iamfx> Ok then my next question may be obsolete
  330. [21:19:31] <@iamfx> I will ask it anyway
  331. [21:20:14] <MaxGuevara> on the point of payment, you are free to pay another developer to assist. i will gladly work with anyone.
  332. [21:20:21] <@iamfx> In another conversation you (Max) suggested that you would respect the opinion of the QuarkFoundation. As you may know, there are plans to create the Foundation as a democratic entity that would guide the development of Quark as a currency. For this developers who are regularly active are important, however we also need developers who accept changes that are wished by the community. Could you imagine doing that as it
  333. [21:20:21] <@iamfx> would also mean sharing access and agreeing to changes that you are (at least in theory) not supportive of
  334. [21:23:13] <coinmama> .
  335. [21:23:16] <MaxGuevara> i will definitely consider the opinion of the quark holders, and as i said, i'll work with any developers (if you choose to bring in other developers). i will accept github pull requests from any developer (after reviewing the changes). if a developer regularly submits good changes, i will consider sharing github commit access.
  336. [21:24:27] <@iamfx> "good changes" means that you will reject them in case you find them wrong even though the community supports them?
  337. [21:24:45] <MaxGuevara> no, with "good changes" i mean technically good (good code)
  338. [21:25:01] <@iamfx> i have no more question on this issue
  339. [21:25:05] <@iamfx> someone else?
  340. [21:25:09] <coinmama> I understand the lack of available dev time is where certain people have come in to help with promotions etc---regarding this B9 in testnet phases- clarifying that it is currently in testnet, and if so are there plans for this, or would u Adam consider working with the foundation on a merge project if it came to that as something that we would supp
  341. [21:25:09] <coinmama> ort as a project??
  342. [21:25:28] <promethium> can I present some figures on superblocks?
  343. [21:26:35] <MaxGuevara> i don't mind working with adam on a foundation supported coin
  344. [21:26:37] <@iamfx> please go ahead promethium
  345. [21:26:41] <promethium> 0.5% inflation would create 1,240,000 quarks per year 1,051,200 are actually being created. Adding superblocks to the value of 188,800 quarks would still fall within the 0.5% range; A superblock of 3630 Quarks every week would still maintain the original perview.
  346. [21:26:43] <coinmama> Re what I said above this is something that can be discussed in another chat, just was wondering if the option was there
  347. [21:27:06] <@cashmen> i am sorry to say guys but for me it seems like this: with this dev quark has 0% future sorry to say this. why i say it? cause see other dev like cloak and co how want we be on same level with such profesional dev? and how we want survive?
  348. [21:27:11] <coinmama> good to know max-
  349. [21:27:44] <MaxGuevara> cashmen: what do you propose?
  350. [21:27:56] <@cashmen> idk but extremly changes
  351. [21:28:02] <@shakezula> yea, what pull requests have you submitted to the cause?
  352. [21:28:38] <@iamfx> shakezula, cashmen is an investor in Quark, he does not submit changes, but he submits liquidity
  353. [21:28:47] <@QuarkieFM> same here
  354. [21:28:50] <@cashmen> i am big investor
  355. [21:28:53] <@cashmen> and QuarkieFM too
  356. [21:28:56] <@shakezula> yea i got that
  357. [21:29:12] <@iamfx> just as info, sorry to interrupt
  358. [21:29:16] <@cashmen> np
  359. [21:29:21] <@cashmen> guys i love quark
  360. [21:29:25] <@cashmen> but this way is wrong
  361. [21:29:31] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat den Server verlassen: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
  362. [21:29:33] <@cashmen> we need solutions to be on same level with other dev
  363. [21:29:41] <MaxGuevara> example
  364. [21:29:42] <MaxGuevara> ?
  365. [21:29:44] <@cashmen> POSa
  366. [21:29:48] <@cashmen> maybe that ?
  367. [21:29:53] <@cashmen> POS anon
  368. [21:30:20] <@shakezula> changing to the fad of the month doesn't really bode well for this long-term coin though
  369. [21:30:21] <@cashmen> look like market go crazy for anon features
  370. [21:30:36] <@cashmen> who say it ? you ? can you read future?
  371. [21:30:39] <@shakezula> quark is one of the most technically sound proof of work coins by a long shot
  372. [21:30:56] <@cashmen> this i call speculation
  373. [21:30:59] <@shakezula> i'd pose the same question back to you
  374. [21:31:13] <@cashmen> people need to see facts
  375. [21:31:16] <@cashmen> not speculations
  376. [21:31:25] <@iamfx> I agree with Adam, that the fancyness shouldnt be an argument. However we should discuss measures just in case all other options (merge mining, superblocks) arent working
  377. [21:31:28] <@cashmen> and fact is other dev is much more active
  378. [21:31:43] <coinmama> going back just for a second on the idea of a foundation supported coin... I have one thing to say..had this been previously not halted by the Mimic scam thing it might have been much easier to go forward- now might take a bit more work, but could be something to discuss still in topic also with considering Quark fork for added rewards...can both o
  379. [21:31:43] <coinmama> f these be done together or would it be a matter of one or the other
  380. [21:32:12] fkinglag-mobile [~fkinglag@166.137.111.121] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  381. [21:32:25] <MaxGuevara> i would prefer one feature per hard fork at a time, it is safer
  382. [21:32:35] <coinmama> I mean i know technically both could happen just wanted to know ur thoughts
  383. [21:33:17] <@iamfx> Ok guys, I am sorry, but my daughter keeps me from moderating properly. Can some of you overtake moderation? I placed all question I noted, so we would pass to free discussion anyway
  384. [21:33:18] <coinmama> ok so of course if there was a fork to add a feature then the merge coin would have to adapt to this?
  385. [21:35:03] <@QuarkieFM> Guys im sorry but if quark cant compete at the same level as the rest of newer coins its done for.
  386. [21:35:09] <MaxGuevara> depends. mostly the coin can continue without the change. we need a special pool to do merge mining. i don't have expertise in this, so we'll need an experience pool operator to help with that
  387. [21:35:11] <coinmama> or is that the case necessarily?
  388. [21:35:15] <@QuarkieFM> dumping 1 million coins coming weeks
  389. [21:35:18] <@QuarkieFM> bye guys
  390. [21:35:23] QuarkieFM [quarkie@2604:180::49d5:c845] hat #teamquarkuniverse verlassen: "Leaving"
  391. [21:35:25] <@shakezula> l8r
  392. [21:36:09] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> i have a question re: superblock
  393. [21:36:24] <quarkcheck> go ahead Josh
  394. [21:36:33] <coinmama> ok good to know re: the pool-- thanks for the reply, go josh
  395. [21:36:54] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> would having superblocks caause the hashrate to fluctuate wildly? E.g. if there was an average of 1 superblock every week wouldnt people quit mining quark after the superblock had been mined and then resume 5ish days later?
  396. [21:37:25] QuarkieFM [quarkie@2604:180::49d5:c845] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  397. [21:37:25] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] hat den Modus +o QuarkieFM gesetzt
  398. [21:37:28] <@QuarkieFM> I had hope in Quark from the start, and I am saddened to see it's demise. In my point of view, everyone still left in the team should sell, cut their losses, keep their friends, and take their talents elsewhere."
  399. [21:37:32] QuarkieFM [quarkie@2604:180::49d5:c845] hat #teamquarkuniverse verlassen: "Leaving"
  400. [21:37:42] <@shakezula> oh good grief
  401. [21:38:04] <promethium> leaving twice?
  402. [21:38:06] <MaxGuevara> Y3llowb1ackbird: the superblocks are random, so people won't know when the next one will be. they could be on average once a week, but nothing prevents two from happening right after each other
  403. [21:38:20] <coinmama> this is a good question from Josh- probably better to have it be random-
  404. [21:38:30] <@iamfx> coinmama, can you moderate?
  405. [21:38:33] <coinmama> oh ok i keep replying too late, I cant type fast!
  406. [21:38:35] <@iamfx> sorry if I missed an answer
  407. [21:38:50] <promethium> a random block size, upt to a maximum per week?
  408. [21:39:18] shakezula [~adam@andarazoroflove.org] hat den Modus -o shakezula gesetzt
  409. [21:39:20] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> Thanks Max
  410. [21:39:27] <coinmama> I dont have any list of questions quarkfx, are we through the list?
  411. [21:39:52] <promethium> the list was completed
  412. [21:40:22] <coinmama> we are holding up self moderating- ok any other questions on the superblock?
  413. [21:40:28] <@iamfx> ok
  414. [21:41:40] <coinmama> re- promethiums question- thoughts on a maximum per week? It sounds max like u have been considering this for a while maybe?
  415. [21:42:03] <@iamfx> I have another superblock question
  416. [21:42:56] <MaxGuevara> the nature of randomness is that we can say aim for 52 super blocks per year, but it doesn't mean it will happen exactly every week. it could happen once a week, then twice in one day, but on average we'll get 52 a year.
  417. [21:44:12] <Netnox> I'm not sure if people would mine for 500 quarks once a week at these current prices, it's of course a nice feature though but i could imagine people dropping out if they don't get any superblock
  418. [21:44:21] <@iamfx> From my understanding of economics I would expect a rise in hashrate, but I don¥t expect it to be sufficient to keep the network stable. If we want the network to grow Quark needs to be able to save the funds of large investors.
  419. [21:44:28] <@iamfx> yes, agreed Netnox
  420. [21:44:29] <coinmama> ok, I wonder if this would be enough incentive- i.e, how much of a block would this be, sorry if this was already mentioned---go quark fx
  421. [21:44:40] <@iamfx> yeah, that was my question
  422. [21:44:46] <MaxGuevara> yeah, the number is just for illustration. we'll have to work out exactly how much and how regular we can make these super blocks.
  423. [21:46:16] <quarkcheck> But I have to say this lottery block idea is not that bad
  424. [21:46:32] <quarkcheck> maybe quark community can even take some percentage
  425. [21:46:33] <MaxGuevara> if we say give out 1 million qrk per year in super blocks, it would be around 20,000 per week
  426. [21:46:35] <quarkcheck> for development?
  427. [21:46:38] <promethium> A block could be as large as 3,630 quarks per week and still maintain the inflation rate
  428. [21:47:15] <@iamfx> which one?
  429. [21:47:27] <MaxGuevara> sounds reasonable, somewhere between 2000 and 10000 maybe
  430. [21:47:28] <@iamfx> we shouldnt forget that there is no 0.5 inflation rate.
  431. [21:47:33] <@iamfx> there is 1 Mio per year
  432. [21:47:39] <@iamfx> which is 0.4 and decreasing
  433. [21:48:01] <quarkcheck> can we also take some percentage of the super block for community development project?
  434. [21:48:12] <quarkcheck> or it is a bad idea
  435. [21:48:23] <@iamfx> i dont think that is possible Hai (for good reason=
  436. [21:48:32] <@iamfx> those will receive the coins who get the superblock
  437. [21:48:51] <coinmama> well is there a way to code it differently?
  438. [21:49:07] <coinmama> such that part of any superblock reward includes a separate block for development?
  439. [21:49:38] <coinmama> I like the idea very much if it is feasible
  440. [21:49:54] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> that would look really bad most likely
  441. [21:49:56] <@iamfx> it wouldnt be really fair coinmama as this would mean a sort of centralization
  442. [21:49:58] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> quark already has a bad rep
  443. [21:50:00] <@iamfx> yeah
  444. [21:50:02] <MaxGuevara> it can be done, but it's almost like a pre-mine after the fact. i know these days people don't mind it, but quark had no pre-mine.
  445. [21:50:32] <quarkcheck> ok..worth a thought
  446. [21:50:55] <quarkcheck> i was thinking like a charity donation
  447. [21:51:10] <quarkcheck> to the quark development
  448. [21:51:11] <@iamfx> yeah but this again would be centralized sort of
  449. [21:51:15] <@iamfx> an institution
  450. [21:51:26] <quarkcheck> ok..
  451. [21:51:28] <@iamfx> there is no way to guarantee good will
  452. [21:51:39] <coinmama> hmm not to beat a dead horse but this mimic coin thing is exactly that-as it is being mined in advance-- and that is why I think it should not be supported..but back on topic(!) it would have to be transparent use of funds
  453. [21:51:53] <promethium> Get the foundation to do some mining and win it's own superblocks
  454. [21:52:15] <quarkcheck> promethium good point
  455. [21:52:36] <MaxGuevara> yeah, i know funding is difficulty, but maybe the foundation should try and build up a fund for developments
  456. [21:52:37] <coinmama> yeah this should be a plan regarding any merge mine coin as well- I agree with u promethium there
  457. [21:53:33] <quarkcheck> Max, we have a discussion going on with Peter's new fundation proposal
  458. [21:53:43] <quarkcheck> every member will buy shares
  459. [21:54:10] <quarkcheck> Would you consider join?
  460. [21:54:27] <MaxGuevara> i would
  461. [21:54:29] <quarkcheck> however you as dev, I would say get automatics shares
  462. [21:54:49] <quarkcheck> Perfect
  463. [21:55:16] <quarkcheck> Would you agree that any major changes or decision regarding Code changes for Quark, should be discussed openly
  464. [21:55:20] <quarkcheck> transparently?
  465. [21:55:22] <MaxGuevara> if the foundation can get a kitty of around 5-10 btc, it would go far to promote quark. maybe ask quarkers for donations, who knows what you might get.
  466. [21:55:46] <MaxGuevara> quarkcheck: sure
  467. [21:56:44] <shakezula> shares are interesting
  468. [21:57:02] <MaxGuevara> we should also try and be represented at conferences
  469. [21:57:04] <shakezula> long-term revenue generation and accumulation could be possible
  470. [21:57:11] Orm [~QuarkFan@dhcp-077-248-126-074.chello.nl] hat #teamquarkuniverse betreten
  471. [21:57:17] <coinmama> anything is possible if we put our heads together for a good cause
  472. [21:57:18] <shakezula> yes, conferences with presentations
  473. [21:57:19] <coinmama> ORm!
  474. [21:57:28] <Netnox> Very good point Max
  475. [21:57:30] <quarkcheck> Welcome back Orm
  476. [21:57:35] <quarkcheck> Also Max, there are lots of disagreement with Koin.. his secret plans..what's your take on this matter?
  477. [21:57:38] <@iamfx> Well anything is possible if we get people into the boat who are willing to pay for it
  478. [21:57:40] <Orm> thanks and sorry
  479. [21:58:11] <@iamfx> Guys, I need to go. My short finishing statement: I think we should leave the result of this chat open to discussion for the community. I think many people will have a word on what was said in this conversation. I also think that we need to see how people decide to support Quark and then look for options. If any new idea does not solve the situation we need to come up with other solutions.
  480. [21:58:32] <@iamfx> well the last sentence was sorta tautological, but you know what I mean
  481. [21:58:58] <MaxGuevara> thanks iamfx
  482. [22:01:02] <promethium> Cya iamfx
  483. [22:01:06] <coinmama> Thanks Qfx yes Max regarding Quarkchecks question--We undersatnd u dont come forward to support any plan in particular- but this one is detrimental to Quarks reputation as it shows forethought and intent to deceive- as I have detailed in the statement prior to the meeting
  484. [22:02:12] <MaxGuevara> in regards to Kolin, i say don't let him upset you, he's going to do what he wants anyway. he doesn't represent quark. i think the foundation members has a much better reputation. he obviously has a big stake in quark, so he's going to stay vocal no matter what.
  485. [22:03:23] <quarkcheck> Thanks Max, yes I think a new proposed transparent well represented Quark Foundation will unite the community
  486. [22:04:17] <promethium> Max, can you make a comment about the blockreward resetting to 2048 in two years
  487. [22:04:59] <MaxGuevara> promethium: yes, thanks, that was a well spotted bug. i applied the patch that was submitted. it will be included in the next build.
  488. [22:05:00] <coinmama> and I agree re: making the chat public- The issue with the plan is that he also keeps indicating ur involvement with the "we" statements- hmm promethium this is an interesting idea!
  489. [22:05:33] <coinmama> oh well i thought it was a proposal not a bug, haha
  490. [22:05:41] <promethium> Good to know, Thanks Max
  491. [22:06:05] <coinmama> Anyone have other questions?
  492. [22:06:12] <quarkcheck> Max I know this has been discussed before.. but what is the best way to contact you?
  493. [22:06:28] <MaxGuevara> max.guevara.452@gmail.com
  494. [22:06:28] <promethium> That's very humorous coinmama
  495. [22:07:49] <coinmama> haha--Ok and max what about the possibility of you checking in periodically on quarktalk.org? this would be very helpful
  496. [22:08:11] <MaxGuevara> ooh, so many quark sites :)
  497. [22:08:27] <MaxGuevara> i check out the reddit from time to time
  498. [22:08:31] <Netnox> While the superblock and shares are interesting ideas, i do think that Quark needs to update itself with new feasible technologies and indeed be more present to the public like conventions and conferences.
  499. [22:08:32] <coinmama> they have created it from scratch and working out an area for you specifically to make it easy for u to communicate with everyone
  500. [22:08:55] <coinmama> well forum quark.cc is pretty much dead
  501. [22:09:04] <coinmama> trello is being moved there as well
  502. [22:09:19] <MaxGuevara> yes i'll check out quarktalk.org
  503. [22:09:37] <coinmama> so probably if the updates are in one particular place we can pass on the info- you dont have to worry about this at all
  504. [22:09:46] <coinmama> ok thank u Max
  505. [22:09:48] <MaxGuevara> cool
  506. [22:09:49] <quarkcheck> nice idea coinmama, maybe a thread with questions for Max to answer periodically
  507. [22:10:18] <promethium> Thanks Max
  508. [22:10:23] <coinmama> yes, this was the gist..not to bombard u max- just to have one method of communicating regularly that is easy for everyone
  509. [22:10:26] <MaxGuevara> just want to say thanks to all of you who approaches this with a positive attitude
  510. [22:10:41] <MaxGuevara> you're doing great work
  511. [22:10:52] <quarkcheck> Thank you Max and Adam come along, cause this has cleared out
  512. [22:10:57] <quarkcheck> a lot of major concerns
  513. [22:11:11] <coinmama> thank u very Much Max Adam and all:) much appreciated.
  514. [22:11:19] <Netnox> Thanks guys
  515. [22:11:39] <promethium> Thanks everyone, time to go back to sleep
  516. [22:11:48] <MaxGuevara> good day/night all
  517. [22:11:54] <coinmama> haha nitey nite promethium and all
  518. [22:11:58] <quarkcheck> Talk soon
  519. [22:12:13] <@Y3llowb1ackbird> have a good day everyone
  520. [22:12:18] <quarkcheck> who will send on the chat log?
  521. [22:12:20] <quarkcheck> cashmen?
  522. [22:12:24] <quarkcheck> good day Josh
  523. [22:12:27] <@cashmen> i can do it
  524. [22:12:33] <quarkcheck> awesome
  525. [22:12:46] <coinmama> FOr all who are here there is another Quark meeting that is till planned for next Sunday for anyone wanting to attend
  526. [22:12:47] MaxGuevara [b9038792@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.3.135.146] hat #teamquarkuniverse verlassen
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