/log/ - nerds general

8:15 PM  Hide: so what would you guys prefer on Lia's turn, proning that guy or slowing him (Save ends)
8:17 PM  mak556: what would slowing even do
8:17 PM  Riris: Well if you prone him I have combat advantage.
8:17 PM  mak556: OH I CAN MOVE HALF MY MOVE SPEED
8:17 PM  mak556: WHOOPS THE MAP IS TINY SO IT DOESN'T MATTER
8:17 PM  Hide: it does matter mak
8:17 PM  Hide: even if the map is small
8:17 PM  Riris: Slowing isn't so useful here because he's already provoking OAs when he moves so he likely'll just shift.
8:18 PM  Riris: WAit he's stunned.
8:18 PM  Riris: So he probably already grants CA.
8:18 PM  Hide: I was going to prone anyway though
8:18 PM  Hide: yeah he does
8:18 PM  Riris: So I guess I don't care.
8:18 PM  Hide: gee thanks lili
8:18 PM  Riris: Do whatever you like, I can prone him on my turn if you won't.
8:18 PM  mak556: omg my goosebumps are huge
8:18 PM  Hide: guess I'll just slow
8:19 PM  Hide: if i hit
8:19 PM  Riris: Do you have that anti-teleport bolt.
8:19 PM  Hide: also >don't die   >lol
8:19 PM  Hide: yes I do
8:19 PM  mak556: walala thinks she's funny
8:19 PM  Riris: Use that then.
8:19 PM  Riris: Noooo teleports.
8:19 PM  Hide: I was thinking about it, let me look up the stats on those "useless" things again
8:19 PM  Riris: Or well.
8:19 PM  Riris: Stunned+Prone
8:19 PM  Riris: Nevermind, don't use the bolt.
8:19 PM  mak556: Maybe she should have said "Don't die or I'll kill you!"
8:20 PM  Hide: depends on how long the bolt lasts
8:20 PM  Riris: Gonna be one mighty fine specimen to just go lol teleport then.
8:20 PM  Riris: I think until end of your next turn.
8:20 PM  Hide: also, d&d berserker sounds so good
8:20 PM  Hide: other classes are you even trying
8:20 PM  Riris: Skald sounds super boring.
8:20 PM  Riris: Witch is also meh.
8:20 PM  Hide: exactly
8:20 PM  Riris: Only thing I like on Witch is really free familiar + the At-Will that doees 1d10 damage.
8:21 PM  Riris: And then auto-damages for the rest of the encounter.
8:21 PM  Riris: Or until you attack a new target.
8:21 PM  Riris: May be abusable with items/powers that let you sustain as a Minor or less, but pretty meh.
8:21 PM  Riris: Actually.
8:21 PM  Riris: It's probably abusable if you take powers/features/feats/items that let you sustain as a Minor or less.
8:21 PM  Riris: Infinite 1d10 works!
8:22 PM  Hide: yeah, it's until next turn like you said Lili
8:22 PM  Hide: so save it etc
8:22 PM  Riris: Yeah, wait until he's more likely to teleport if he can.
8:22 PM  Riris: If you prone him he needs to shake off Stun, stand, teleport AND somehow attack.
8:22 PM  Hide: well, your turn is right after mine
8:22 PM  Hide: so you should be able to prone him
8:22 PM  Riris: Oh, right, it is.
8:22 PM  Hide: and if he's still slow, yagi can prone him
8:23 PM  Riris: I can Prone on a Free Action.
8:23 PM  Hide: o
8:23 PM  Riris: Getting him down on the ground is easy.
8:23 PM  Hide: sucks that he's going to summon dragon then lolrez though
8:23 PM  Riris: Well if you Slow him, Hidei.
8:23 PM  Riris: Then he can stand on his turn, and Yagi knocks him down again.
8:24 PM  Hide: yup, though it's save ends, so
8:24 PM  Hide: isn't yagi in slow stance already though
8:24 PM  Riris: iunno
8:24 PM  Hide: so shouldn't he be slowed near him
8:24 PM  Hide: bern
8:24 PM  Riris: Wiseman's not Slowed though.
8:24 PM  Hide: wait nm
8:24 PM  Riris: He does have Concealment.
8:24 PM  Hide: yeah, he should be slowed
8:24 PM  Hide: cause he's in range of yagi's stance
8:24 PM  Astarotho: Hahaha, these trap panels are so much fun.
8:25 PM  Riris: yagi needs to hit to slow him
8:25 PM  Hide: though I can slap it on him anyway for regular slow+slowed(save ends)
8:25 PM  Hide: oh
8:25 PM  Hide: derp
8:25 PM  Hide: either way
8:26 PM  Riris: Also Berserker'd be a great class, actually.
8:26 PM  Tohsaka: btw the slow stance only affects basic melee I think
8:26 PM  Astarotho: It does.
8:26 PM  Tohsaka: So that's why they didn't get slowed
8:26 PM  Riris: Level 7 Barbarian Encounter: 3[W] damage as a reaction to getting attacked.
8:26 PM  Riris: For a Defender.
8:26 PM  Riris: That is execllent incentive not to attack them.
8:26 PM  Riris: excellent even
8:26 PM  Astarotho: wut
8:27 PM  Astarotho: You want them attacking you though
8:27 PM  Tohsaka: Since it's primal though it'll activate a fury
8:27 PM  Hide: don't you get to choose whether to fury?
8:27 PM  Riris: True.
8:27 PM  Riris: No.
8:27 PM  Hide: oh
8:27 PM  Riris: Not with the Berserker one.
8:27 PM  Riris: :S He goes into a fury when you use a Primal power.
8:28 PM  Hide: so any barbarian power
8:28 PM  Riris: Yuuuup.
8:28 PM  Hide: lol
8:28 PM  Tohsaka: There are martial encounter powers but well
8:28 PM  Tohsaka: Um
8:28 PM  Hide: seems good besides that
8:28 PM  Tohsaka: Most of the ones I've seen suclk
8:28 PM  Tohsaka: suck*
8:29 PM  Riris: Well Berserker also has nice powers to poach.
8:29 PM  mak556: so in crappy MMO AO, should I wield sword and shield or axe and shield for my tank??
8:29 PM  Riris: Skald powers are almost completely useless to poach aside from a few Encounters.
8:29 PM  mak556: Wait no axe has better defensive skills nvm
8:29 PM  Riris: It's also a very, very boring class design-wise.
8:29 PM  Riris: Since most of its encounters are just "upgraded from previous powers looool"
8:29 PM  Hide: just stop playing AO, problem solved
8:29 PM  mak556: upgraded from previous powers looool
8:29 PM  Astarotho: I wouldn't mind an upgrade to holy smite at some point
8:30 PM  mak556: hide what do you have against AO
8:30 PM  mak556: do you feel it is your duty to inform me that I am doing something dumb
8:30 PM  Riris: Arid Desert is a nice feature for Berserker
8:30 PM  mak556: whe nit doesn't affect you
8:30 PM  Astarotho: whoops, he got stoned
8:30 PM  Riris: +3 to AC when wearing Cloth Armour or no Armour, +2 Reflex
8:30 PM  mak556: or anyone at all besides me, really?
8:30 PM  Astarotho: But that means no second skin
8:30 PM  mak556: tarou stop getting ahead of me in radiant historia
8:31 PM  Tohsaka: It seems to be designed to give you AC as if you were using hide armor and a shield as long as you're not
8:31 PM  Hide: Mak, you're playing a game that requires you to make 5 bot accounts for crafting to get anywhere
8:31 PM  Hide: you ask me
8:31 PM  Astarotho: but is fun
8:31 PM  mak556: Hide not really
8:31 PM  mak556: ya is fun
8:31 PM  Riris: Temperate Land seems kinda meh-ish to me.
8:31 PM  Riris: +2 to damage if you use a one-hand weapon and shield.
8:31 PM  mak556: I'm just making 5 of them to accelerate the process
8:32 PM  Tohsaka: Temperate Land seems to be for shield-users
8:32 PM  Riris: I guess it's nice if you build around it actually.
8:32 PM  Astarotho: i like their design more than the essentials classes anyway
8:32 PM  Riris: Just the loss of a 2H weapon hnnggg.
8:32 PM  Hide: Either way mak, you get my point, though you're free to play whatever you like
8:32 PM  mak556: so plz stop repeating it then
8:32 PM  Hide: i do wat i want
8:32 PM  mak556: k
8:32 PM  Hide: i dont even remember the last time i mentioned you to stop play anyway
8:33 PM  mak556: like yesterday
8:33 PM  Riris: I like Run Down as an At-Will, too.
8:33 PM  Astarotho: lol i'm beating up a tornado
8:33 PM  Riris: Slow on an At-Will alongside Defender Aura.
8:33 PM  mak556: tarou
8:33 PM  Hide: clearly you're letting it bother you too much when someone speaks out
8:33 PM  mak556: you're at the tornado beating up part?
8:33 PM  mak556: I got past you then
8:33 PM  Astarotho: I'm going to that desert place past cygnus
8:33 PM  mak556: desert place past wat
8:33 PM  mak556: It's been forever man
8:34 PM  Hide: also astaroth, where exactly did you get the name wiseman from, one of yer vidya games?
8:34 PM  mak556: I go play radiant historia after walk bear
8:34 PM  Astarotho: also, holy crap i love these trap panels
8:34 PM  mak556: >calling a lich a wiseman
8:34 PM  mak556: YES TRAP PANELS
8:34 PM  Astarotho: Name?
8:34 PM  mak556: THEY ARE SO AMAZING.
8:34 PM  Riris: Trap Panels are the most damaging skills in the game, Atty.
8:34 PM  Astarotho: Pfft
8:35 PM  mak556: Riri, sometimes it's hard to get an enemy on them though
8:35 PM  Astarotho: I stole the whole villain from a vidya game
8:35 PM  Hide: which one
8:35 PM  Astarotho: Guess
8:35 PM  mak556: But man, trap panels
8:35 PM  mak556: I love 'em
8:35 PM  Hide: your rpg card game thing?
8:35 PM  Astarotho: Yes
8:35 PM  mak556: baten kaitos huh
8:35 PM  Astarotho: yerp
8:35 PM  Hide: I was just asking cause there's another "villian" named Wiseman (though it's more of a computer system) from another show i still need to watch
8:36 PM  Riris: .hack// also has a Wiseman.
8:36 PM  Riris: srsly wiseman is a common vidya name.
8:36 PM  Riris: I think Xenogears also has a Wiseman.
8:36 PM  Hide: well I never got to finish .hack unfortunately
8:36 PM  Hide: I got stuck on the first game somewhere
8:36 PM  Astarotho: Be grateful I didn't rip everything off. He got HP back on a lot of his attacks.
8:36 PM  Hide: anyway, I never even really heard a character/villian named wiseman out of the one i mentioned
8:37 PM  Hide: so i was just curious
8:37 PM  Astarotho: You weren't paying attention during the streams iirc
8:37 PM  Hide: 27 should be a hit vs ac against such a silly flimsy lich
8:37 PM  Hide: well duh, i thought baten kaitos was boring
8:37 PM  Hide: even when i played it back in the day
8:37 PM  Voyager: hide r u going to post
8:37 PM  Hide: yes, i'm doing parlor first
8:37 PM  Voyager: oh you're rolling
8:37 PM  Astarotho: blasphemer etc
8:38 PM  Hide: thurr
8:38 PM  Tohsaka: 27 will hit wiseman yes
8:38 PM  Hide: Rin is the Gm now huh
8:38 PM  Voyager: do you have its stat block or something
8:38 PM  Astarotho: Yes she does
8:38 PM  Tohsaka: Well I know his AC
8:39 PM  Hide: well Rin did tell us just about everything about him bern
8:39 PM  Hide: summoning a dragon at half hp, reviving when he dies, etc
8:39 PM  Voyager: so what are its defenses
8:39 PM  Voyager: weakest etc
8:39 PM  mak556: >summoning a dragon
8:39 PM  Hide: you were here too makk
8:39 PM  mak556: rlly
8:39 PM  Hide: weren't you paying attention
8:39 PM  Tohsaka: Fortitude is its weakest at 21
8:39 PM  mak556: probably not
8:39 PM  mak556: >fortitude weakest at 21
8:39 PM  Voyager: ic
8:39 PM  mak556: wat.
8:40 PM  Astarotho: level 10
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: It
8:40 PM  mak556: dear lord tarou
8:40 PM  Voyager: 21 is fairly low imo
8:40 PM  Astarotho: It's lower than standard iirc
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: It's a level 10 solo controller so its defenses are pretty balanced
8:40 PM  Riris: Well can it shake off Stun easy and all?
8:40 PM  mak556: why level 7s versus level 10, level 8, and like six level 7s
8:40 PM  mak556: also >solo
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: It will end the stund at the end of its turn
8:40 PM  Voyager: the statues are minions
8:40 PM  mak556: oh
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: stun*
8:40 PM  Voyager: except the stormwarden
8:40 PM  Hide: the dragon is an elite too isn't it
8:40 PM  Riris: So it's stopped for at least one turn huh.
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: Yeah
8:40 PM  Astarotho: Well yes
8:40 PM  Tohsaka: It  has effectively lost 1 whole turn
8:40 PM  Astarotho: Fighting 2 solos is a bit much.
8:40 PM  mak556: i walk bear ne
8:41 PM  Voyager: bye
8:41 PM  Hide: well I think half of us would have flipped our desks if it was two solos anyway
8:41 PM  Astarotho: Even for you guys
8:41 PM  Tohsaka: It doesn't seem to have a lot of other triggered actions
8:41 PM  Hide: well, more than half really
8:41 PM  Voyager: I wouldn't mind two solos
8:41 PM  Voyager: but maybe others would
8:41 PM  Tohsaka: It's vulnerable to radiant and resists psychic and necrotic
8:41 PM  Hide: well you don't care because you want hard mode everywhere
8:41 PM  Tohsaka: Incidentally my Rebuke Undead will work on it in this form
8:41 PM  Tohsaka: It's undead
8:42 PM  Astarotho: FFFFF
8:42 PM  Astarotho: Sand sword get!
8:42 PM  Hide: a sword made of sand, how does that even work
8:42 PM  Hide: inb4 magic
8:42 PM  Astarotho: iunno
8:42 PM  Voyager: magic
8:42 PM  Tohsaka: The stat block I have says its fly speed is 2 is that right
8:42 PM  Astarotho: er
8:42 PM  Astarotho: that got cut off
8:43 PM  Voyager: oh he meant flight speed 20
8:43 PM  Voyager: obviously
8:43 PM  Astarotho: no
8:43 PM  Hide: i hope not
8:43 PM  Astarotho: actually, it was supposed to be 8. I should have fixed that.
8:43 PM  Hide: >8
8:43 PM  Astarotho: Originally it was 12
8:43 PM  Hide: >12
8:43 PM  Voyager: no hover means we can knock it prone to make it fall
8:43 PM  Astarotho: Yes.
8:43 PM  Astarotho: 12
8:43 PM  Voyager: who cares about flight speed
8:43 PM  Hide: if we were more melee i'd be worried
8:44 PM  Tohsaka: It has hover
8:44 PM  Hide: because "lol party can't reach me"
8:44 PM  Voyager: does it now
8:44 PM  Tohsaka: But prone stil makes it fall
8:44 PM  Voyager: rly
8:44 PM  Voyager: y
8:44 PM  Voyager: is it a Special line
8:44 PM  Tohsaka: Hover just prevents stun from knocking it out of the sky
8:44 PM  Tohsaka: Not proning
8:44 PM  Voyager: rly??
8:44 PM  Tohsaka: Yes
8:44 PM  Voyager: that's strange
8:44 PM  Voyager: I remember reading otherwise maybe I'm remembering wrong
8:45 PM  Tohsaka: All the rules compendium says on the Hover trait is "A creature that can hover, such as a beholder, can remain in the air even when it is stunned"
8:45 PM  Voyager: I see
8:45 PM  Voyager: only stun
8:45 PM  Voyager: convenient
8:46 PM  Voyager: did hide slow the lich
8:46 PM  Hide: yup
8:46 PM  Voyager: no prone??
8:46 PM  Hide: Lili can prone
8:46 PM  Voyager: o ok
8:46 PM  Hide: free action
8:46 PM  Voyager: I'll have fun with my three attacks next turn
8:46 PM  Voyager: with rain of blood bonus
8:46 PM  Tohsaka: I'll try to use Rain of Blood to boost you guys
8:47 PM  Tohsaka: Lowest defense being Fort is good for me because my best attacks target Fortitude
8:47 PM  Voyager: r u saving AP rin
8:47 PM  Tohsaka: I might
8:47 PM  Tohsaka: Depends on how urgently the minions need to die
8:47 PM  Voyager: I'm saving my sacrificial weapon for stage 2
8:47 PM  Voyager: but I think I'll spend most other resources
8:47 PM  Tohsaka: I'll probably save Searing Orb for the 2nd phase
8:48 PM  Astarotho: geez, princess, why such low defenses
8:48 PM  Astarotho: >dresses
8:48 PM  Astarotho: oh
8:48 PM  Astarotho: that's why
8:48 PM  Hide: derp
8:48 PM  Riris: >2nd phase
8:49 PM  Riris: Do I stay in my rage at the very least? '3'
8:49 PM  Voyager: do you have two rages
8:49 PM  Riris: yes.
8:49 PM  Voyager: ic
8:49 PM  Tohsaka: I think Riri was planning to burn the 2nd via rage strike
8:49 PM  Astarotho: I c
8:49 PM  Riris: But Crimson Hurricane is much better.
8:49 PM  Voyager: end of encounter effects don't end until a short rest, by RAW
8:49 PM  Astarotho: Maybe, but that means I'm going to allow stuff like zones to persist as well
8:49 PM  Voyager: but that's not how we've been playing it in limbo
8:50 PM  Riris: Well Rage Strike so useless anyway, guess I'll preserve my other Rage.
8:51 PM  Tohsaka: Well Astaroth a zone ends when its caster dies
8:51 PM  Tohsaka: Regardless of whether or not it lasts "until the end of the encounter"
8:51 PM  Astarotho: i see
8:51 PM  Astarotho: hmm hmm hmm
8:51 PM  Astarotho: I wonder if I should count him as "dead" then
8:51 PM  Voyager: you filthy cheater stop changing powers
8:51 PM  Astarotho: I'm not changing it
8:52 PM  Voyager: if we kill him he's dead right
8:52 PM  Astarotho: Sure.
8:52 PM  Voyager: well there
8:52 PM  Astarotho: After you beat the second part at least
8:52 PM  Tohsaka: Anyway this solo does not have a lot of triggered actions or retribution attacks
8:52 PM  Voyager: I think zones also end if the caster is unconscious anyway
8:53 PM  Tohsaka: No, they don't
8:53 PM  Voyager: wat
8:53 PM  Voyager: that's silly
8:53 PM  Tohsaka: It's specific "A zone ends immediately if its creator dies."
8:53 PM  Voyager: I guess that's to prevent things like Sleep from ending zones
8:53 PM  Tohsaka: Well it's also meant for the benefit of players
8:54 PM  Tohsaka: If you have a zone active you wouldn't want it to end if you just happen to fall below 0 but get right back up right
8:54 PM  Tohsaka: It's the same for conjurations
8:55 PM  Riris: It's fine I'll just not use Rage Strike.
8:55 PM  Tohsaka: If you save your nova for 1 round I can use Rain of Blood to make him vulnerable 5 to all damage
8:55 PM  Tohsaka: And hopefully give you a +4 attack boost too
8:56 PM  Riris: Well if we have another fight after this I'm not Nova'ing at all.
8:56 PM  Hide: oh, imay have forgotten something for my turn but idk if i want to save it
8:56 PM  Riris: I thought fourth encounter was last but if we get a fifth I'll play it conservative.
8:56 PM  Hide: oh wait nvm
8:56 PM  Hide: i'll save it
8:56 PM  Voyager: So if we kill the wiseman and all his minions
8:56 PM  Voyager: he revives
8:56 PM  Voyager: with full HP or something and different name
8:56 PM  Tohsaka: Yes
8:56 PM  Astarotho: second form etc
8:56 PM  lurk: hide nasl is on
8:57 PM  lurk: complexity vs infs
8:57 PM  Astarotho: Don't worry, you'll get some short rest benefits before the second part
8:57 PM  Hide: i haven't watched nasl in weeks so i don't really care much for it anymore
8:57 PM  Hide: especially after what happened to the one team cause of honcast
8:57 PM  Tohsaka: Riri I needed to wonder if you agreed with LDB's interpretation of magic spiked gauntlets, I think it's a good case
8:58 PM  Hide: A team lost sponsorship because the Honcast people running it made up a bunch of lies to the sponsors of that team, cake
8:58 PM  vsvssd: loool infs troll clan
8:58 PM  Riris: What? Magic Spiked Gauntlets? LDB?
8:58 PM  Astarotho: The guy who wrote the fighter handbook
8:58 PM  Tohsaka: Lordduskblade the charop guy
8:58 PM  Riris: >implying I read all that nonsense
8:59 PM  Tohsaka: Anyways
8:59 PM  Tohsaka: The thought is that since an enchanted spiked gauntlet occupies the hand slot, it must be a set of 2 gauntlets
8:59 PM  Riris: Loool no.
8:59 PM  Riris: If it occupies one hand before.
8:59 PM  Tohsaka: Because otherwise it is impossible to dual wield them
9:00 PM  Riris: Enchantnig it doesn't magically make them two.
9:00 PM  Tohsaka: It's more that the enchantment is for a set of 2
9:00 PM  Tohsaka: Because, as I said, otherwise it is strictly worse than the talid, and it's imposible to wear one on both hand
9:00 PM  Riris: See above.
9:00 PM  Tohsaka: Since you can't wear two hands slot items
9:00 PM  Tohsaka: Hey, listen to my case at least
9:00 PM  Tohsaka: Otherwise there is ZERO benefit to using a spiked gauntlet
9:01 PM  Riris: Well why not use talid then
9:01 PM  Tohsaka: Also, there is one enchantment that is spiked-gauntlet only, and it is both described as a set of 2 gauntlets
9:01 PM  Tohsaka: And there's event a picture right next to it
9:01 PM  Tohsaka: Of two
9:01 PM  Tohsaka: even*
9:02 PM  Tohsaka: I don't think WotC would have made that if it was literally impossible to dual wield them
9:02 PM  Tohsaka: Which it would be, if it was just one gauntlet
9:03 PM  Tohsaka: That was Lordduskblade's reasoning and I dunno it seems like a very solid case to me
9:03 PM  Tohsaka: And his guides are some of the best on the forum I think
9:03 PM  Tohsaka: I think he knows what he's talking about
9:03 PM  Riris: Logical fallacy.
9:04 PM  Tohsaka: >player wants something
9:04 PM  Tohsaka: >LOL NO LOGICAL FALLA"CY
9:04 PM  Tohsaka: Riri don't be silly now
9:04 PM  Astarotho: You know she likes to troll.
9:05 PM  Tohsaka: Also, the cbuilder now only lets me equip magical spiked gauntlets in the hands slot
9:05 PM  Voyager: since when do you trust the cbuilder
9:06 PM  Tohsaka: I don't, but that is a deliberate change from before
9:06 PM  Riris: I was just referring to how you said Lordduskblade writes a lot of good guides and therefore his argument related to spiked gauntlets must be good.
9:06 PM  Riris: That's a logical fallacy because the former doesn't necessarily indicate the latter.
9:06 PM  Tohsaka: All I said was that I think he knows what he's talking about.
9:06 PM  Riris: And using that sort of argument deserves to be called out on: writing guides related to classes, mechanics and stuff doesn't necessarily correlate to a good understanding of game design.
9:07 PM  Riris: And besides if it's normally a one-handed weapon and it can be enchanted into a hands slot item I don't see why it'd become a set of two suddenly.
9:07 PM  Riris: That doesn't make any logical sense.
9:07 PM  Tohsaka: And why shouldn't it
9:07 PM  Tohsaka: If every other hands slot item in the game occupies two hands
9:07 PM  Tohsaka: Why does this one not
9:07 PM  Astarotho: Just ask customer support
9:07 PM  Voyager: every other what now
9:07 PM  Voyager: I don't think they all occupy two hands
9:07 PM  Voyager: is it even stated anywhere
9:08 PM  Tohsaka: Well, you can't use two
9:08 PM  Voyager: well magic item slots don't necessarily correlate to physical ability to wear them
9:08 PM  Astarotho: StrikebackS, GauntletS of Blood, Resplendant GloveS...
9:08 PM  Voyager: there are even rules for what happens if you try to wear more than one in the same slot
9:08 PM  Tohsaka: Hands slot items are typically refered to in the plural
9:08 PM  Voyager: typically yes
9:08 PM  Riris: I could wear two belts realistically speaking, or a cape and an amulet together.
9:08 PM  Tohsaka: In fact, they all are
9:08 PM  Riris: But the system also doesn't permit it.
9:09 PM  Hide: okay, this is lazy post on limbo but it's something
9:09 PM  Voyager: there must be at least one exception
9:09 PM  Voyager: like maybe spiked gauntlets
9:09 PM  Riris: Also level 5.
9:09 PM  Riris: Coercive Gauntlet.
9:09 PM  Riris: Where is your god now?
9:09 PM  Voyager: lol there's one
9:09 PM  Hide: there, now we can continue etc
9:09 PM  Tohsaka: Well, that's fine. Though I should note that it's for a very... obscure module
9:09 PM  Tohsaka: And is probably a misprint
9:09 PM  Hide: >lili posted campaign notes
9:09 PM  Hide: WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN
9:10 PM  Riris: Reparation Appartus is also single hand from its description.
9:10 PM  Tohsaka: All right, there are a few
9:10 PM  Tohsaka: It still doesn't make sense though
9:11 PM  Astarotho: Wear a talid and spiked gauntlets at the same time
9:11 PM  Riris: I just don't see why the Spiked Gauntlets are an issue and all.
9:11 PM  Riris: Maybe you can link me to this bloke's arguments rather than describing them so I understand why they would at all be problematic or why the application should be questionable.
9:11 PM  Tohsaka: Here, it's Tigerclaw Gauntlets
9:12 PM  Riris: You're asking me to rule one way or the other on a mechanic I don't really understand the problem of.
9:12 PM  Tohsaka: Even the magical item name is a plural lols
9:12 PM  Riris: Which is fine to confuse and bedazzle me to get a quick answer out of me
9:12 PM  Hide: By the way, I think I didn't really see those monk changes and whatnot added (I think rin said  they were better than the ones she suggested idk) so I might still need to add that to my sheet?
9:12 PM  Riris: but I don't tend to take decisions until I've deliberated.
9:12 PM  Tohsaka: I wasn't attempting to confuse the issue
9:12 PM  Riris: And for that I require a link to the actual argumentation on the issue.
9:12 PM  Riris: And an understanding of WHY this is an issue.
9:13 PM  Riris: It becomes a hands slot item, shazam, done.
9:13 PM  Tohsaka: I will tyr to find it
9:13 PM  Riris: I don't understand the fuss really.
9:13 PM  Voyager: is sariel using a spiked gauntlet
9:13 PM  Riris: Nope.
9:13 PM  Tohsaka: Because I wanted to wear a spiked gauntlet on each hand
9:13 PM  Riris: So just fluff?
9:13 PM  Tohsaka: No, there's a purpose
9:13 PM  Riris: Or do you mean you want to equip a spiked gauntlet as a weapon.
9:14 PM  Tohsaka: The spiked gauntlet IS a weapon
9:14 PM  Tohsaka: It has a +2 prof bonus and 1d6 damage dice
9:14 PM  Riris: I know.
9:14 PM  Riris: But enchanted it occupies hands slot item right.
9:14 PM  Tohsaka: Yes
9:14 PM  Tohsaka: But it can be enchanted as a weapon
9:14 PM  Riris: Quick question.
9:15 PM  Riris: If Sariel wears a spiked gauntlet on her off hand.
9:15 PM  Riris: Does it count as "unarmed" on the off hand.
9:15 PM  Riris: So that she still gets the bonus from Swordmage Warding.
9:15 PM  Tohsaka: Count as unarmed? That depends on the specific wording of swordmage warding
9:15 PM  Voyager: warding says your hand has to be free iirc
9:15 PM  Voyager: a single gauntlet enchant suddenly becoming two is a bit like a double weapon or a paired weapon
9:15 PM  Voyager: are you sure this is intended
9:15 PM  Riris: Not carrying a shield, off-hand weapon, weapon or anything else.
9:16 PM  Astarotho: Well you're not -carrying- it...
9:16 PM  Riris: Other hand must be free.
9:16 PM  Tohsaka: Well, Voyager, I think it has to be, or else the spiked gauntlet has no benefit over the talid
9:16 PM  Riris: Anyway.
9:16 PM  Voyager: the talid is a better weapon then, I guess
9:16 PM  Riris: Like Voyager I think that if you enchant one gauntlet it doesn't magically become two.
9:16 PM  Riris: That'd be silly.
9:17 PM  Tohsaka: I argue that it would be far sillier to present the items to players in such a way that they cannot actually use them
9:17 PM  Tohsaka: Due to game mechanics
9:17 PM  Hide: I don't wanna lose your love, toniiiiight
9:17 PM  Voyager: why can't you use them
9:17 PM  Riris: ^
9:17 PM  Tohsaka: Specifically, I'm referring to the Tigerclaw Gauntlets enchant
9:17 PM  Voyager: sure it goes on one hand
9:17 PM  Voyager: unless you fluff it so it looks like two
9:18 PM  Voyager: but only works as one
9:18 PM  Tohsaka: I've explained why, right? You can't use two magic spiked gauntlets because they occupy the hands slot
9:18 PM  Voyager: oh I see
9:18 PM  Riris: Also the Talid says that enchanted as a magic weapon it doesn't occupy the hand slot.
9:18 PM  Voyager: sure then you can't use two
9:18 PM  Voyager: only one hand
9:18 PM  Voyager: the other has to use a talid or something
9:18 PM  Tohsaka: Which is silly
9:18 PM  Riris: So does it count as Sariel having that hand free if she is wearing a talid on her off-hand.
9:18 PM  Tohsaka: Yes Riri it does
9:18 PM  Voyager: That's like saying you have to use a dagger in each hand rather than just one
9:18 PM  Tohsaka: Voyager no
9:19 PM  Tohsaka: The enchantment is called "Tigerclaw Gauntlets." The picture right next to it on page 80 of AV shows two of them
9:19 PM  Riris: So Sariel can get an extra weapon enchant there, gotcha.
9:19 PM  Tohsaka: The flavor text describes it as a set of gauntlets
9:19 PM  Tohsaka: "These gauntlets, which imbue you..."
9:19 PM  Riris: So basically you want a Spiked Gauntlet equipped to your left hand and your right hand.
9:19 PM  Riris: With one enchantment paired.
9:20 PM  Riris: Link me to this argumentation set etc.
9:20 PM  Tohsaka: I'm searching the thread I remember it in atm
9:20 PM  Voyager: that sounds like fluff to me really
9:20 PM  Voyager: game mechanics wise you can still only use it on one hand
9:21 PM  Tohsaka: Which is dumb
9:21 PM  Tohsaka: I don't think that's what they intended
9:21 PM  Voyager: maybe it is
9:21 PM  Tohsaka: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25095217/Beowulf,_Master_of_Grabs?pg=2
9:21 PM  Astarotho: omg just ask customer support
9:21 PM  Voyager: but spiked gauntlets needs to be labeled "double weapon" for it to do what you want it to do
9:22 PM  Tohsaka: Well, that was not the conclusion the others reached. And if it was a double weapon you wouldn't be able to use one in one hand and a dfiferent weapon in the other
9:22 PM  Voyager: a double weapon that leaves hands free, I guess?
9:23 PM  Tohsaka: Though LDB starts his conslusion on page 3, with:
9:23 PM  Tohsaka: "l: After further review and conference with my fellows in the ##4e channel, we have come to the conclusion that purchasing magic spiked gauntlets gets me a pair of gauntlets, not just one. I will be
9:24 PM  Tohsaka: Anyway if it doesn't work like that for me that's okay
9:24 PM  Tohsaka: I just wanted to make my pitch
9:26 PM  Voyager: I can see a single "off-hand" weapon being wielded in two hands so you're technically wearing a set of gauntlets
9:26 PM  Voyager: but it'd still be just one weapon
9:26 PM  Voyager: and a one-handed weapon at that
9:27 PM  Voyager: it wouldn't be an issue because it doesn't eat up your main hand and off hand slots for more weapons
9:28 PM  Tohsaka: Well there is no such thing as a "main hand" or "off hand" "slot"
9:28 PM  Voyager: really
9:28 PM  Riris: Well, honestly.
9:28 PM  Tohsaka: According to the rules compendium, no
9:28 PM  Riris: If you get enchanted Spiked Gauntlets.
9:28 PM  Riris: You're wearing only one weapon.
9:28 PM  Riris: As far as I care.
9:28 PM  Voyager: I thought you'd normally only have two hands to wield weapons with
9:28 PM  Tohsaka: So in order to use my dual wielding powers I'd need another weapon?
9:28 PM  Voyager: wouldn't that function like slots
9:29 PM  Riris: Yes.
9:29 PM  Tohsaka: I see
9:29 PM  Tohsaka: Oh well, was worth a shot
9:29 PM  Riris: Otherwise Spiked Gauntlets should be a dual-weapon.
9:29 PM  Tohsaka: I'd certainly rule it the other way in my game but this is yours
9:29 PM  Riris: Since there's specifically weapons that are double-weapons I don't see why we should treat Spiked Gauntlets differently.
9:30 PM  Astarotho: Because they don't occupy the hands slot?
9:30 PM  Tohsaka: That'd be it, mostly
9:30 PM  Voyager: has this issue been brought up with things like wrist razors
9:30 PM  Voyager: arms slot items and whatnot
9:30 PM  Tohsaka: why
9:30 PM  Voyager: well you do have two arms
9:30 PM  Voyager: and wrist razors occupies the arms slot
9:30 PM  Riris: wrist razors plural etc.
9:31 PM  Voyager: actually the razors plural are all in one hand
9:31 PM  Voyager: erm one wrist-band-thing
9:31 PM  Voyager: it looks like wolverine's claws
9:31 PM  Tohsaka: Well right, of course, I should point out that "Tigerclaw Gauntlets" is plural too...
9:31 PM  Tohsaka: Anyways, wrist razors would follow the same logic either way
9:32 PM  Riris: Anyway why do you want them to occupy the hands slot anyway.
9:32 PM  Voyager: there's no other choice if you're using spiked gauntlets actually
9:32 PM  Astarotho: They already do
9:32 PM  Voyager: they always occupy the hands slot if enchanted
9:32 PM  Voyager: talids have no such restriction
9:32 PM  Tohsaka: It's not my choice the spiked gauntlets specifically say they occupy the hands slot if they are enchanted
9:33 PM  Voyager: I think RAW it only acts as one weapon
9:33 PM  Voyager: but houseruling would fix any issues like that
9:33 PM  Tohsaka: That is probably the RAW interpretation yes
9:33 PM  Tohsaka: I just don't think it's what they intended
9:33 PM  Tohsaka: Case in point Tigerclaw Gauntlets
9:34 PM  Voyager: RAI I think it's fair to pretend the gauntlet is a double weapon
9:34 PM  anon: evening
9:34 PM  Voyager: hi
9:34 PM  Tohsaka: hey anon
9:34 PM  anon: what are you talking about
9:34 PM  Tohsaka: spiked gauntlets
9:34 PM  Voyager: nerds
9:34 PM  Astarotho: >These gauntlets are special fitted with metal spikes
9:35 PM  Astarotho: >These gauntlets
9:35 PM  Astarotho: >Gauntlets
9:35 PM  Riris: Spiked Gauntlet
9:35 PM  Riris: >One-handed melee weapon
9:35 PM  Voyager: I told you what the RAW would look like
9:35 PM  Riris: >One-handed
9:35 PM  Voyager: it's still one weapon and one-handed weapon
9:35 PM  Voyager: just you can wield it in two hands
9:35 PM  Tohsaka: Anyway if it's ruled that the enchanted spiked gauntlets don't give me a main weapon and off-hand weapon to use I'll use a talid instead
9:35 PM  Riris: Classification
9:35 PM  Tohsaka: And pick up Wrestler's Gloves for my hands slot
9:35 PM  Voyager: talid > gauntlets imo
9:36 PM  Tohsaka: It just means my off-hand weapon will have less damage because I don't have the gold for an off-hand magic gauntlet
9:36 PM  Voyager: what happened to feyslaughter
9:36 PM  Voyager: or is that your main slot
9:36 PM  Tohsaka: Feyslaughter will be my main weapon
9:36 PM  Voyager: ic
9:37 PM  anon: nerds interesting
9:37 PM  Tohsaka: I was trying to look for a reason to use spiked gauntlets instead but ruled that way there is none :x
9:37 PM  Tohsaka: Reported
9:37 PM  anon: good
9:38 PM  Riris: Until someone erratas Spiked Gauntlets to a double-weapon or two-handed weapon it's a one-handed weapon to me.
9:39 PM  Lion: hmmm  I
9:39 PM  Lion: hmmm*
9:40 PM  Tohsaka: Anyway bern, as to what you were saying earlier, main hand and off-hand kind of work like slots but they're not explicitly defined as such
9:41 PM  Voyager: that seems to be the case
9:41 PM  Tohsaka: So in theory you could wield a spiked gauntlet in your main hand and also hold a sword in it
9:41 PM  Tohsaka: And use either one for a main hand attack
9:41 PM  Voyager: a talid would be a weapon that occupies no slots, probably.
9:41 PM  Voyager: so you could use like 400 of them at once
9:42 PM  anon: what
9:42 PM  Voyager: wat
9:42 PM  Astarotho: huh
9:42 PM  Tohsaka: I... guess by RAW...
9:42 PM  Voyager: heh
9:42 PM  Riris: It does say your hand counts as free.
9:42 PM  anon: I prefer hide idea
9:42 PM  Riris: So I guess I'm fine with it.
9:42 PM  Astarotho: pffffhahaha
9:42 PM  Riris: you can wear infinite talids
9:42 PM  Hide: wat
9:42 PM  anon: the paragon path you mentioned some time ago
9:42 PM  anon: unlimited bowgun works
9:42 PM  Hide: i dont even remember
9:42 PM  Tohsaka: Well there's not much benefit to it derp but I guess you could heh
9:43 PM  Ozaki: >bowgun
9:43 PM  Astarotho: You could hit with all of them at once?
9:43 PM  Ozaki: >not blowgun
9:43 PM  Ozaki: Evening
9:43 PM  Lion: >not *****
9:43 PM  anon: lol ozaki
9:43 PM  Tohsaka: Well no Astaroth
9:43 PM  Astarotho: Or stick them all over your body and become a superhero
9:43 PM  Lion: hi ozaki~~
9:43 PM  Astarotho: TALID LAD
9:43 PM  Tohsaka: You can still only use one weapon on a given attack
9:43 PM  Voyager: anon's talking about ocular adept
9:43 PM  Tohsaka: Unless the power says otherwise
9:44 PM  Voyager: and it's not quite unlimited
9:44 PM  Hide: o
9:44 PM  anon: hide mentioned something about making them fly over your head
9:44 PM  Hide: but you can have a bunch of floating weapons with different enchantments
9:44 PM  Hide: and you gain the benefits or something
9:44 PM  Tohsaka: Ocular Adept can do that yes
9:44 PM  Astarotho: Doesn't that require being a seeker
9:44 PM  Hide: yup
9:44 PM  Voyager: or a hunter
9:44 PM  Hide: still requires seeker
9:44 PM  Voyager: also, seeker multiclass on a RBA-focused character with decent str or dex
9:44 PM  Tohsaka: Hunter who MCs Seeker
9:44 PM  Voyager: is an absolute must
9:45 PM  Voyager: no you can be a hunter
9:45 PM  Hide: yeah, hunter who mcs seeker
9:45 PM  Voyager: and take ocular adept
9:45 PM  Voyager: without seeker
9:45 PM  Hide: no, you need seeker
9:45 PM  Tohsaka: Is it just requires primal
9:45 PM  Hide: last i remember it didnt show up til seeker was taken
9:45 PM  Voyager: it says Prerequisite: Hunter or Seeker
9:45 PM  Riris: Anyway Rin if you can write up the Spiked Gauntlets as a double-weapon I'm fine with it.
9:45 PM  Hide: unless they changed it
9:45 PM  Voyager: but seeker has a paragon feat
9:45 PM  Voyager: adds str mod or dex mod to RBA damage
9:45 PM  Hide: either way, seeker is a good multiclass for hunter for a good feat and stuff
9:46 PM  Tohsaka: Write up?
9:46 PM  Voyager: primal eye or something
9:46 PM  Tohsaka: You mean like create it?
9:46 PM  Riris: Yes.
9:46 PM  Astarotho: That's the only good thing seekers have feat-wise sadly
9:46 PM  Astarotho: Also, fun fact
9:46 PM  Riris: I can do it instead but it'll be tomorrow.
9:46 PM  Astarotho: You know that teleport attack Wiseman used?
9:46 PM  Astarotho: That's based on a seeker attack
9:46 PM  anon: rin astaroth got nuts with the wiseman
9:46 PM  Voyager: so losing to him would not only be disappointing but humiliating too
9:46 PM  anon: kill him plz
9:46 PM  Tohsaka: Well it'd probably just be a +2 prof bonus 1d6/1d6 weapon of the unarmed weapon group with the off-hand property that keeps your hands free
9:47 PM  Astarotho: Oh hush, it's not a bad power
9:47 PM  Voyager: sounds fair
9:47 PM  Tohsaka: Occupies your hands slot when enchanted, too, to keep it from overshadowing the talid
9:47 PM  Astarotho: Seekers just have a bunch of levels with bad levels.
9:48 PM  Astarotho: er
9:48 PM  Astarotho: bad choices
9:48 PM  Hide: you mean powers
9:48 PM  Hide: and choices i guess
9:48 PM  Astarotho: yes
9:48 PM  Astarotho: Also, their feats suck
9:48 PM  Voyager: levels with bad powers
9:48 PM  Astarotho: Right
9:48 PM  anon: no but really
9:48 PM  Hide: that paragon feat is good though
9:48 PM  Astarotho: But not for a controller
9:48 PM  anon: wiseman terrible ne
9:48 PM  Voyager: paragon feat just means you have to MC seeker as some other class
9:48 PM  Voyager: like sorcerer
9:48 PM  Tohsaka: Okay so you guys can probably talk with Hide's monk now when you get a chance
9:48 PM  Voyager: you can be a sorcerer MC seeker and do hueg dmg with acid orb
9:49 PM  Astarotho: Seekers actually have a couple nice at-wills that can be used as RBAs
9:49 PM  Voyager: better yet sorcerer|ranger with the feat to take rapid shot in place of ranger at-will
9:49 PM  Tohsaka: Wiseman's power that annoys me the most is his dominate
9:49 PM  Voyager: and use acid orb on area burst 1 within 20
9:49 PM  Tohsaka: But if we play our cards right he shouldn't get more than a few actions
9:49 PM  Hide: wasn't it autosuceed dominate?
9:49 PM  Hide: or something
9:49 PM  Tohsaka: Well, no
9:49 PM  Astarotho: wut
9:49 PM  Tohsaka: It has to hit
9:49 PM  Astarotho: that's just mean
9:49 PM  Hide: oh, good
9:49 PM  Riris: OK I'll just write them out now then as they'll function in my campaign.
9:50 PM  Riris: But that means Spiked Gauntlets confer all the disadvantages too etc.
9:50 PM  Tohsaka: You mean count as a hands slot item?
9:50 PM  Voyager: what are the disadvantages
9:50 PM  Astarotho: I made sure to pack everything
9:50 PM  Riris: Well you can't wield another weapon like a parrying dagger in offhand.
9:50 PM  Voyager: wait what
9:51 PM  Voyager: spiked gauntlets property would free up your hands
9:51 PM  Tohsaka: I wasn't intending to carry any other weapons
9:51 PM  Hide: not if it's double weapon?
9:51 PM  Voyager: well the free hands thing is sort of the exception to the general rule
9:51 PM  Riris: You want it to count as a two-handed weapon right.
9:51 PM  Riris: Or as having two weapons.
9:51 PM  Tohsaka: As wearing a gauntlet on both my main hand and off-hand right
9:52 PM  Voyager: I think rin wants a paired weapon-type thing on the gauntlet
9:52 PM  Astarotho: >hit giant enemy crab's weak point for massive damage
9:52 PM  Astarotho: yay
9:52 PM  Voyager: except as a double weapon the property wouldn't carry over to both weapons
9:52 PM  Voyager: it only works on the primary end
9:52 PM  Tohsaka: wait what
9:52 PM  Voyager: that's how it works with double weapons
9:52 PM  Voyager: enchant properties only work on the primary end
9:52 PM  Voyager: but enh bonuses apply to both
9:52 PM  Riris: ^
9:53 PM  Tohsaka: Well that's fine
9:53 PM  Tohsaka: All it means is I need to hit with my main hand to apply the feyslaughter penalty
9:53 PM  Tohsaka: hmmm don't see double weapon in the rules compendium index
9:53 PM  Tohsaka: I wonder if it dicusses them
9:54 PM  Voyager: the first instance of double weapons was adv. vault?
9:54 PM  Astarotho: check the glossary?
9:54 PM  Tohsaka: Yes, adv vault
9:54 PM  Tohsaka: Yes, okay, I see where it says that now
9:55 PM  Tohsaka: Okay, that is fine
9:55 PM  anon: posted etc
9:55 PM  Tohsaka: I should still be able to say carry my battle standard around right
9:55 PM  Voyager: tabun
9:55 PM  Hide: well, i usually had to free up a hand slot so idk
9:56 PM  Tohsaka: Right but you were using a sword + shield
9:56 PM  Riris: of course not you're holding a gauntlet that hand
9:56 PM  Tohsaka: I'm not holding a gauntlet I'm wearing it
9:56 PM  Riris: That's silly.
9:56 PM  Jyouji: ur silly
9:56 PM  Voyager: it's a glove
9:56 PM  Tohsaka: What are you saying I'm holding the gauntlet and beating them with it
9:56 PM  Riris: Of course.
9:56 PM  Tohsaka: I'm wearing it on my hand and punching them in the face
9:56 PM  Riris: That's what all the other Frenchmen do.
9:56 PM  anon: that looks like a good idea
9:56 PM  Astarotho: pffff
9:56 PM  Voyager: I'd like to see that build
9:56 PM  Astarotho: I say, take that you ruffian.
9:56 PM  anon: haha
9:57 PM  Voyager: you'd need to be an arena fighter to make good use of improvised weapons
9:57 PM  Tohsaka: looool
9:57 PM  Voyager: if you hold a gauntlet in each hand is it a two-handed weapon
9:57 PM  anon: I challenge you to a duel, you scumbag.
9:57 PM  Riris: I'm just joking here Rin obviously your spiked gauntlet hand doesn't count as "occupied" that'd be silly.
9:57 PM  Tohsaka: Okay
9:57 PM  Riris: Even if the rules say otherwise I'm just going to say that that's absurdly silly.
9:57 PM  Voyager: the rules agree
9:57 PM  Tohsaka: No, actually the rules say that your hand is free when you use a spiked gauntlet
9:57 PM  Tohsaka: That's why its so low damage and stuff
9:58 PM  Tohsaka: +2 prof bonus too
9:58 PM  Riris: o ok
9:58 PM  Riris: anyway I jotted down the houserule for it etc.
9:58 PM  Voyager: actually
9:58 PM  Voyager: an arena fighter that uses a battle standard as a weapon
9:58 PM  Riris: Even though the entire argument lordcloudwhatever presented was rather underwhelming
9:58 PM  Voyager: this could work
9:58 PM  Riris: looool flavour
9:58 PM  Riris: But I guess I don't care enough etc.
9:58 PM  Tohsaka: >battle standard as a weapon
9:58 PM  Tohsaka: loooos
9:58 PM  Riris: Arena fighter that grabs an enemy.
9:59 PM  Riris: Then uses them as a weapon.
9:59 PM  Riris: Grab George and use him as a weapon.
9:59 PM  anon: suplex!
9:59 PM  Tohsaka: That could mabye work
9:59 PM  Hide: george is too fat
9:59 PM  Voyager: so if you attack the target you're grabbing
9:59 PM  Voyager: would they be hitting themselves
9:59 PM  Astarotho: 2d8 damage with high crit
9:59 PM  Astarotho: because fat
9:59 PM  Tohsaka: The monk unarmed strike is a different story of course, but that takes a MC feat and I wouldn't be able to use feyslaughter with it
9:59 PM  Tohsaka: So no go there
10:00 PM  Tohsaka: nice loadstates Astaroth
10:01 PM  Astarotho: ahaha
10:01 PM  Voyager: are you cheating
10:01 PM  Hide: cheets
10:01 PM  Astarotho: i luv these trap panels
10:01 PM  Astarotho: whoops
10:02 PM  Astarotho: that's the wrong thing
10:02 PM  Tohsaka: Oddly enough though, it wasn't AV that confirmed that wearing a spiked gauntlet left your hand free, it's in MP2
10:02 PM  Voyager: that's rather late
10:02 PM  Tohsaka: It was in one of the sidebars for the Brawler
10:03 PM  Riris: I'm beginning to regret DMing etc.
10:03 PM  Tohsaka: I guess they didn't worry about it until they had a build that was specifically designed to use the spiked gauntlet
10:03 PM  Riris: Voyee can you take my spot instead.
10:03 PM  Voyager: wat
10:03 PM  Riris: All this talk about how to abuse omg
10:03 PM  Voyager: I'm not even 10% ready
10:03 PM  Astarotho: I already regret it
10:03 PM  Tohsaka: What I'm not abusing anything
10:03 PM  Voyager: 400 talids is hardly abuse
10:03 PM  anon: ahahahaha
10:03 PM  Riris: I think you're just not suited to be a DM for us Atty.
10:03 PM  Riris: No offence intended.
10:03 PM  anon: anyways geez guys
10:04 PM  Riris: I mean Maggie gets to hear how OP her encounters are every day all day.
10:04 PM  Astarotho: None taken. It's just not my thing I guess
10:04 PM  Astarotho: I'm more bothered by how some people don't seem to be having fun at this point.
10:04 PM  Voyager: I think this encounter will be fun
10:05 PM  Hide: Well, this whole adventure has been pretty railroady
10:05 PM  Hide: which is part of it I think
10:05 PM  Voyager: it has to be railroady, hide
10:05 PM  Voyager: it's not a campaign; he just set up a sequence of encounters for us to beat
10:05 PM  Astarotho: pretty much
10:05 PM  Hide: Still, it doesn't HAVE to be railroady bern
10:05 PM  Voyager: when I'm DM I'll remove all the RP elements
10:05 PM  Tohsaka: Astaroth did at least tell me that we were supposed to figure out a different way to free the dragon from its cage and he didn't consider pulling a table over to get up there and open it
10:05 PM  Hide: as long as you reach the endpoint of his campaign that he intended
10:05 PM  Voyager: logging dragons and whatnot
10:05 PM  Voyager: there's no time for that nonsense
10:05 PM  Tohsaka: We were supposed to use the control panel I think
10:05 PM  Voyager: right to the combat right away
10:06 PM  Astarotho: Yeah.
10:06 PM  Hide: I mean, Lili's campaign/encounter thing sounds interesting I just don't really have time or a character to invest into it
10:06 PM  Hide: and Bern's I'll just skip cause sounds boring
10:06 PM  Astarotho: I was facepalming because I couldn't figure out a good way to reach the cage and then you did the obvious
10:06 PM  Voyager: problm
10:06 PM  Astarotho: It made me happy, really
10:07 PM  Voyager: cotton for brains.
10:07 PM  Astarotho: Yes, yes
10:07 PM  Tohsaka: Standing on tables is ingenuity at its finest
10:07 PM  Voyager: leave it to a dwarf to come up with a way to become taller
10:08 PM  Riris: Well in my adventure if no one does any thinking it'd be tough.
10:08 PM  Riris: I mean if you poison the drink of the final boss he'll be poisoned for the fight etcetera.
10:08 PM  Voyager: don't worry we'll leave the thinking to Astaroth
10:08 PM  Riris: You might want to get whatever advantage you can get etc.
10:08 PM  Astarotho: Hey, I came prepared this time.
10:09 PM  Voyager: astaroth make sure the encounter is as difficult as possible ok
10:09 PM  Tohsaka: my character has 8 INT okay
10:09 PM  Voyager: do the thinking etc
10:09 PM  Riris: Well, there's no Evil alignments permitted in my adventure, so.
10:09 PM  Astarotho: I can convince them I'm a wizard
10:09 PM  Voyager: chaotic neutral it is
10:09 PM  Hide: "are you a wizard:
10:09 PM  Tohsaka: I'd need to be an executioner for drink-poisoning shennanigans
10:10 PM  Voyager: I'm considering a lawful good executioner|warlock what do you think
10:10 PM  Astarotho: Yay, new gun
10:10 PM  Tohsaka: sounds legit
10:10 PM  Voyager: where he comes from murder is legal
10:10 PM  Astarotho: Hired by the church, pact with a deity etc
10:10 PM  Astarotho: Licensed to kill?
10:11 PM  Voyager: no you can just kill anyone you want
10:11 PM  Voyager: and it's not against the law
10:11 PM  Hide: herp
10:11 PM  Astarotho: That's... Not how lawful good works
10:11 PM  Hide: yeah
10:11 PM  Voyager: did I mention he comes from the Abyss in the elemental chaos
10:11 PM  Hide: sounds more like chaotic stupid
10:11 PM  Tohsaka: I don't think there's a concept of "law" in the Abyss
10:11 PM  anon: murder is good because people I kill go with god
10:12 PM  anon: perfect plan etc
10:12 PM  Tohsaka: The Abyss is like... the literal manifestation of evertyhing that is not "law"
10:12 PM  Voyager: yes, it was rather difficult to be lawful good there
10:12 PM  Astarotho: That's how they justified stuff like the inquisition and crusades
10:12 PM  Voyager: but he pulled it off somehow
10:12 PM  Hide: Bern
10:12 PM  Hide: Just stop there
10:12 PM  Tohsaka: aaanyway
10:12 PM  Voyager: geez fine
10:12 PM  Astarotho: KILLING THESE PEOPLE IS OKAY EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOTHING WRONG, CUZ THEY'RE ENEMIES OF OUR GOD
10:12 PM  Tohsaka: I'll get to work on my finalized character sheet then
10:13 PM  Hide: wasnt hanyuu joining that game too
10:14 PM  Astarotho: being slightly immune to slow is going to be fun
10:14 PM  anon: I hate slow
10:14 PM  Voyager: srsly am I playing a striker in riri's adventure
10:14 PM  Astarotho: Are you?
10:14 PM  Voyager: I'd hate to leave Astaroth's rogue in the dust
10:14 PM  anon: what u play
10:14 PM  Astarotho: We don't know what everyone's playing yet
10:15 PM  Voyager: we have a general idea
10:15 PM  Voyager: cake has cleric, that's leader
10:15 PM  anon: also
10:15 PM  Voyager: rin is defender
10:15 PM  Tohsaka: Cake said leader if he's stil playing, I'm defender
10:15 PM  anon: >riri prefer half orcs to hide
10:15 PM  Voyager: we actually don't have a controller yet
10:15 PM  anon: geez hide ur screwed
10:15 PM  Hide: lool
10:15 PM  Hide: it's fine, she's a stuck up snob anyway
10:15 PM  Voyager: every party needs a stuck up snob
10:16 PM  Astarotho: Let's play an all snob party
10:16 PM  Tohsaka: I thought voya might play a controller
10:16 PM  Tohsaka: You can finally play full psion
10:16 PM  Voyager: that's my other option
10:16 PM  Voyager: mind blast etc
10:16 PM  Astarotho: Go seeker etc.
10:17 PM  Voyager: also augmented dishearten shenanigans
10:17 PM  Tohsaka: And I just have the perect personality for this fighter it's going to be fun
10:18 PM  Astarotho: I'm playing a con artist
10:18 PM  Astarotho: It should be a fun change of pace
10:18 PM  Voyager: I'm playing an assassin hell-bent on revenge after being conned out of a bunch of money
10:18 PM  Tohsaka: I'll have the whole party annoyed with me by the end of the first encounter
10:18 PM  Astarotho: Why did I see that coming
10:18 PM  Voyager: gj
10:18 PM  anon: lol rin
10:19 PM  Riris: Okay.
10:19 PM  Riris: I guess I'll rewrite my acmpaign a bit.
10:19 PM  Voyager: what happen
10:19 PM  Riris: None of these things sound like they are any bit amenable with my initial opening.
10:19 PM  Riris: D:
10:19 PM  Astarotho: sowwy
10:19 PM  Voyager: I'm not really hell-bent on revenge
10:19 PM  Riris: I thought I could weave them into my initial plan but uh, con artist, and assassin hell-bent on revenge against someone who stole some stuff doesn't sound like it'd fit in an army.
10:19 PM  anon: ahahha
10:19 PM  Riris: Well, con artist may have a place.
10:20 PM  Riris: And an annoying twat is always a requirement.
10:20 PM  Tohsaka: My character would be fine in an army
10:20 PM  anon: ne
10:21 PM  Voyager: lawful good executioner warlock would be a good fit in an army
10:21 PM  Tohsaka: I'm not copying LDB's guide either, he favors knockdown assault over heroic effort but I'm not sold
10:21 PM  anon: heh
10:21 PM  Riris: Basically the idea is that you're the ninth squad in an army laying siege to the Keep of Roaken Gim.
10:21 PM  Astarotho: Nice name.
10:21 PM  Voyager: is that an anagram of something
10:22 PM  Riris: nop.
10:22 PM  Voyager: k
10:22 PM  Tohsaka: It's like Rokkenjima only different
10:22 PM  Astarotho: pffffff
10:22 PM  Riris: Anyway inside the castle is this guy who wants to become king.
10:22 PM  Riris: And he's backed by a powerful Witch.
10:22 PM  Voyager: I'm in it for the gold really
10:22 PM  Riris: It's your task to deny his ambitions because he's a jerk.
10:22 PM  Astarotho: >I got twice as much gold back at my place
10:23 PM  anon: >witch
10:23 PM  Tohsaka: Let's see here, background, background
10:23 PM  Voyager: akanul benefit obv
10:23 PM  Voyager: if not the HP bonus one
10:23 PM  Astarotho: can't
10:23 PM  Astarotho: scales of war only
10:23 PM  Riris: Akanul is Forgotten Realms.
10:23 PM  Astarotho: and general
10:23 PM  Voyager: wat
10:23 PM  Riris: Only General and Scales of War are permitted.
10:23 PM  Tohsaka: You haven't read the notes have you voyager
10:23 PM  Voyager: scales of war only?
10:24 PM  Voyager: where are these notes
10:24 PM  Tohsaka: Scales of war and General only
10:24 PM  Tohsaka: In parlor
10:24 PM  Riris: And no HP modifying ones.
10:24 PM  Riris: No Auspicious Birth.
10:24 PM  Voyager: oh derp
10:24 PM  Voyager: it's a new thread
10:24 PM  Voyager: darned stickies
10:24 PM  Tohsaka: This is why I watch Recent Posts
10:25 PM  Voyager: no bag of holding?
10:25 PM  Voyager: deep-pocket cloak it is
10:25 PM  Tohsaka: I have 22 str it's not a concern for me
10:25 PM  Astarotho: I bought one just for shiggles
10:25 PM  Astarotho: I don't even need it
10:25 PM  Voyager: everyone should wear one it'll be like a squadron uniform
10:25 PM  Astarotho: But I like my reroll thingy
10:25 PM  Tohsaka: still not sure if I want Guardian theme, Mercenary, or Sohei
10:25 PM  Hide: you abandoned your old campaign idea lili?
10:26 PM  Voyager: riri can I take guttersnipe and take discounts on starting items
10:27 PM  Riris: No lol
10:27 PM  Astarotho: I picked son of whatever because the stuff works on a rogue
10:27 PM  Voyager: omg y
10:27 PM  Voyager: geez
10:27 PM  Riris: Because you don't buy stuff.
10:27 PM  Riris: You already had them.
10:27 PM  Voyager: fine
10:27 PM  Hide: Pfft, I think this is the first time I actually saw the enemy caster's NP
10:28 PM  Hide: restores all her health/mana etc wat
10:28 PM  Voyager: let's see
10:28 PM  Voyager: scholar theme for language insight abuse
10:29 PM  Astarotho: Are you trying to build some kind of foil to my character?
10:29 PM  Voyager: what
10:29 PM  Voyager: why would I do that
10:29 PM  Astarotho: No reason~
10:29 PM  Voyager: but no not rly
10:30 PM  Voyager: will I ever get to play a leader in parlor
10:30 PM  Astarotho: You could play a leader sub controller
10:30 PM  Voyager: right
10:30 PM  Voyager: a psion|shaman
10:30 PM  Voyager: MC skald
10:31 PM  Astarotho: wut
10:31 PM  Voyager: two encounter heals and psion control powers
10:31 PM  Astarotho: I was talking about something like a bard
10:31 PM  Voyager: oh nothx
10:31 PM  Voyager: you can solve your own positioning issues
10:32 PM  Astarotho: You do realize that rogues rely on positioning quite a bit, right?
10:32 PM  Voyager: like I said you can deal with that
10:33 PM  Hide: such a helpful party member
10:33 PM  Astarotho: Okay, Voyager's not gonna help. I'll be counting on you, Rin.
10:34 PM  Voyager: geez you can't make me be a bard just because you want help moving around
10:34 PM  Astarotho: I never said you had to be a bard
10:34 PM  Riris: ^
10:34 PM  Riris: Anyway it's moot anyway.
10:34 PM  Riris: The Seven Stakes are the first encounter.
10:34 PM  Riris: And they have a lot of positioning powers.
10:34 PM  Astarotho: I'm just reacting to how you said you wouldn't deal with it.
10:34 PM  Astarotho: So do I.
10:34 PM  Astarotho: Neat.
10:34 PM  Hide: so it is rokkenjima huh
10:35 PM  Riris: Well there's seven of them and only one of you.
10:35 PM  Riris: No it's Roaken Gim.
10:35 PM  Hide: rokengima
10:35 PM  Astarotho: pfft, like they can hit me anyway
10:35 PM  Riris: What's your Reflex at?
10:35 PM  Tohsaka: Diamond Cincture and Dwaren Armor gives me a fair amount of self-sufficiency
10:35 PM  Astarotho: Higher than AC I think
10:35 PM  Astarotho: Oh, wait
10:35 PM  Astarotho: No, 1 point lower
10:36 PM  Hide: aka rokkenjima
10:36 PM  Voyager: I'll be a super defensive psion
10:36 PM  Voyager: maybe I'll wear plate armor
10:36 PM  Riris: Pffft then the Stakes are fine with hitting you.
10:36 PM  Voyager: and a shield
10:36 PM  Astarotho: Did you augment their attack bonuses to spite me?
10:36 PM  Riris: No.
10:36 PM  Astarotho: Reeeeeally?
10:37 PM  Voyager: My guess is that they give up something for accuracy
10:37 PM  Riris: If I made them reliably hit 27 Reflex as standard.
10:37 PM  Riris: Then everyone'd yell at me.
10:37 PM  Astarotho: Because you were kind of freaking out about my 28 AC.
10:37 PM  Riris: On a STRIKER, yes.
10:37 PM  Tohsaka: Which gods are the gods of love again
10:37 PM  Astarotho: so I'm not sure why 27 reflex is not a big deal
10:37 PM  Voyager: sune
10:37 PM  Voyager: idk who else
10:37 PM  Astarotho: Oh geez
10:37 PM  Hide: >all of enemy's caster's stats were at E
10:37 PM  Hide: WAT
10:37 PM  Astarotho: Are you gonna be all LOVE AND PEACE
10:38 PM  Astarotho: like a hippy dwarf?
10:38 PM  Tohsaka: Not... exactly
10:38 PM  Voyager: love and war
10:38 PM  Riris: Why do you think I would raise my encounter's powers just because you happen to invest a lot in AC?
10:38 PM  Tohsaka: Also my character is human
10:38 PM  Tohsaka: My defender only has 27 AC
10:38 PM  Riris: I'm just saying they won't have much difficulty hitting you as you seem to think.
10:38 PM  Hide: inb4 kamina or something
10:38 PM  Voyager: Riri likes magic missile
10:38 PM  Voyager: maybe they have a similar power
10:38 PM  Astarotho: huh
10:38 PM  Astarotho: that's... hmm
10:38 PM  Riris: Oh geez Voyee solved it.
10:39 PM  Astarotho: wat
10:39 PM  Voyager: wat
10:39 PM  Astarotho: No
10:39 PM  Riris: Asmodeus has Magic Missile.
10:39 PM  Astarotho: oh
10:39 PM  Hide: lolll
10:39 PM  Riris: As a Minor Action.
10:39 PM  Hide: how fiting
10:39 PM  Voyager: sou ka
10:40 PM  Tohsaka: The good news is that I am strong against enemies that rely on positioning to perform
10:40 PM  Tohsaka: The bad news is I can't control 7 at once obv
10:40 PM  Riris: 21 auto-damage twice per turn is great right
10:40 PM  Hide: omg all this talking, i have to go to bed, i don't want to miss anything
10:40 PM  Astarotho: >twice per turn
10:40 PM  Voyager: im log
10:40 PM  Astarotho: No.
10:40 PM  Astarotho: Just no.
10:40 PM  Riris: What no. it's fine.
10:40 PM  Voyager: well if it's 21 damage
10:40 PM  Hide: how often do you share the log though
10:40 PM  Voyager: you should use your standard action for it too
10:40 PM  Riris: Asmodeus is clearly the level 12 solo.
10:40 PM  Voyager: erm I'll share this one if you want
10:41 PM  Voyager: no one asks really
10:41 PM  Hide: okay thanx, i slep now and post in limbo when i wake up tomorrow
10:41 PM  Astarotho: Auto-damage at that amount, though?
10:41 PM  Voyager: k
10:41 PM  Astarotho: That's kind of ridiculous.
10:41 PM  Hide: to respond to snob-chan
10:41 PM  Riris: It's fine.
10:41 PM  Astarotho: No, pretty sure it's not.
10:41 PM  Riris: It is.
10:41 PM  Voyager: it's fine ne
10:41 PM  Astarotho: Especially not as a minor action.
10:41 PM  Voyager: we can daze
10:41 PM  Riris: It's totes fine.
10:41 PM  Astarotho: It can't be helped. I'll have to knock her out at the start of the fight.
10:41 PM  anon: sleep well hide
10:42 PM  Voyager: I'm assuming Asmodeus doesn't have things like instinctive action
10:42 PM  Voyager: in exchange for minor action magic missile
10:42 PM  Voyager: which means it's weak to daze
10:42 PM  Voyager: good night hide
10:42 PM  Astarotho: inb4 WROOOOOOOONG
10:42 PM  Tohsaka: night hide
10:42 PM  Astarotho: night
10:42 PM  Voyager: ok if im wrong i cant help it ok
10:43 PM  Riris: No ASmodeus has no instincitive action.
10:43 PM  Voyager: anyway I'll play the attack penalty stacker I never got to play on limbo
10:43 PM  Riris: Belphegor does though.
10:44 PM  Astarotho: So one solo and six elites?
10:44 PM  Riris: Belphegor has an instinctive close blast 5 teleport all her allies
10:44 PM  Voyager: -2 from call forth the spirit world and -5 from dishearten
10:44 PM  Voyager: it's too bad I can't add on psychic lock
10:44 PM  Voyager: because level 10
10:45 PM  Voyager: lol -9 to attack
10:45 PM  Astarotho: mark them
10:45 PM  Voyager: assuming rin's brawler marks
10:45 PM  Voyager: yes that's another -2
10:45 PM  Astarotho: oh right
10:45 PM  Voyager: assuming prone, yet another -2
10:45 PM  Voyager: prone should be achievable if it's a grappler fighter
10:46 PM  anon: attack penalty stacker good
10:46 PM  Tohsaka: I have world serpent's grasp yes
10:46 PM  anon: inb4 crits everywhere
10:46 PM  Astarotho: ...I'm going to assume the battle is between us and 7 elites.
10:46 PM  Voyager: it was my plan for the limbo shaman psion
10:46 PM  Tohsaka: And an encounter power that lets me charge and knock prone
10:46 PM  Voyager: stacking penalties for attack
10:47 PM  Voyager: and fairly often at that
10:47 PM  Voyager: though I didn't have dishearten
10:47 PM  anon: I like that
10:47 PM  anon: I help with twin blade
10:47 PM  Voyager: well 2bad it'll never happen
10:47 PM  anon: derp, strike
10:47 PM  Astarotho: That's about the only way to not break the encounter builder
10:47 PM  anon: ;_;
10:47 PM  Voyager: you have lazylord now
10:47 PM  anon: you have other stuff aside from lazy order us?
10:47 PM  Voyager: let's see
10:47 PM  Voyager: hybrid shaman means I can take the shaman OA
10:48 PM  Voyager: which means I can attack during the enemy's turn
10:48 PM  Voyager: which means static mote is useful with world serpent's grasp
10:48 PM  Astarotho: You'd have to summon spirit as minor action
10:48 PM  Voyager: since when has that ever been an issue
10:48 PM  Astarotho: A few times I think
10:48 PM  Voyager: about never is more accurate
10:49 PM  Voyager: anyway static mote slows during enemy turn
10:49 PM  Astarotho: fffffff
10:49 PM  Voyager: if I need to, I can even take world speaker for theOA
10:49 PM  Voyager: which means spirit stops movement on an OA
10:50 PM  Voyager: another venue of control on top of penalty stack
10:50 PM  Voyager: but using the OA means I'm dumping dishearten
10:51 PM  Voyager: so I'd rely on just the base -2 from dishearten or the -2 single-target from ego whip
10:51 PM  Voyager: but ego whip does have its own advantages
10:51 PM  Voyager: ok end rant
10:51 PM  Tohsaka: Posting my sheeeet
10:52 PM  Voyager: Does the party have any RBA-capable characters.
10:52 PM  Voyager: I think the rogue can throw a dagger
10:52 PM  Voyager: anyone else tho
10:52 PM  Astarotho: I can.
10:52 PM  Tohsaka: I'm pretty much melee only
10:53 PM  Tohsaka: I was gonna carry some javelins if I went the ki focus route but not now
10:53 PM  Voyager: ic
10:55 PM  mak556: im bak
10:55 PM  mak556: sry I was talking with imouto
10:55 PM  anon: hi
10:56 PM  Tohsaka: wb
10:57 PM  Voyager: hi
10:58 PM  mak556: hi
10:58 PM  Voyager: Hmm
10:58 PM  Voyager: Sneak attack is a once-per-turn mechanic now right
10:58 PM  Astarotho: yes
10:58 PM  Voyager: you'll do then
10:58 PM  Voyager: I can dump wisdom again
11:02 PM  Astarotho: whooo, 703 damage
11:02 PM  Astarotho: yay
11:03 PM  mak556: tarou I'll definitely beat you at radiant historia omg
11:03 PM  Astarotho: but i'm the best
11:03 PM  Astarotho: i'm the best at space
11:03 PM  mak556: lol
11:04 PM  Searno: space
11:08 PM  anon: hi fish
11:08 PM  Searno: hi shrimp
11:12 PM  mak556: vsvsdd
11:12 PM  mak556: oh
11:12 PM  mak556: it's vsvsvsd
11:12 PM  mak556: err
11:12 PM  mak556: vsvssd
11:12 PM  vsvssd: ?
11:12 PM  mak556: hi
11:13 PM  vsvssd: hi
11:17 PM  Searno: who's vsvssd
11:17 PM  mak556: no clue
11:21 PM  mak556: rrressssssssssssssszzzzzzzzzfffffffffffffffffvvvvccccc
11:27 PM  vsvssd: ??
11:35 PM  Voyager: ???
11:39 PM  Ozaki: !??!
11:42 PM  vsvssd: What you doin
11:46 PM  Searno: fish
11:48 PM  Astarotho: yay, we win
11:50 PM  vsvssd: gj
11:54 PM  vsvssd: Mack, do you have this series on disc.
11:54 PM  vsvssd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx0smpHoK5k&feature=related
12:17 AM  Voyager: astaroth where's parlor update
12:18 AM  Astarotho: uh
12:18 AM  Astarotho: tomorrow?
12:18 AM  Voyager: omg slo
12:19 AM  Tohsaka: You're gonna put it off all the way until tomorrow?
12:19 AM  Astarotho: can stop playing game
12:19 AM  Voyager: though is riri even here
12:19 AM  Voyager: it's her turn next
12:19 AM  Tohsaka: probably not anymore
12:19 AM  Voyager: good job astaroth
12:20 AM  Astarotho: yay i did good
12:30 AM  Astarotho: faaaaat
12:35 AM  Voyager: Hmm
12:37 AM  Voyager: Maybe a javelin is better than a short spear for chieftain's weapon
12:37 AM  Voyager: or just spear even
1:18 AM  fortknox: o hi
1:20 AM  Searno: hi
1:20 AM  Tohsaka: hello
1:22 AM  Jyouji: hi
1:24 AM  lurk: omg
1:24 AM  lurk: whers people
1:24 AM  lurk: i need to go out
1:25 AM  Jyouji: owo
1:25 AM  lurk: 2 mor hours until shops shut nooo
1:33 AM  Tohsaka: You stream too long Astaroth
1:34 AM  Voyager: im shop for a 400 talid character
1:34 AM  Voyager: weapon powers etc
1:34 AM  Voyager: and a ki focus
1:34 AM  Astarotho: ...wow
1:34 AM  Astarotho: I think you're right
1:36 AM  Tohsaka: Ima stream a little bit of FF4 if people wanna come over
1:36 AM  Tohsaka: http://www.livestream.com/sonozakidungeon
1:36 AM  Astarotho: That's probably enough for tonight
1:36 AM  Tohsaka: thanks fors treaming
1:36 AM  Astarotho: ahaha, no problem
1:36 AM  Voyager: parlor updat
1:36 AM  Astarotho: now i'm going to go pass out for half a day