Vaccinations - April 2014

vaccinations

Rick Cooper

Message 1 of 25 , May 27 2:54 PM[-- Image: Frame1 --]



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Is there a source for DPT singles?



Rick Cooper

  New Canaan

Dr Kendra Becker

Message 2 of 25 , May 27 3:14 PM[-- Image: Frame2 --]



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not to the best of my knowledge.....you can get DT but that is
only
for adults I believe
if you are looking for single DOSE vials there are a number of
sources
I use Sanofi Pasteur (DTaP/ daptcel for kids)
Kendra Becker ND, APRN, BC
Mystic, CT

[email protected]

Message 3 of 25 , May 29 6:00 AM[-- Image:
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Aventis is recently re-issuing tetanus alone.  Not cheap:  about
$24 per dose.  It is not preserved with mercury, but does have a
small amount of aluminum.  It is supposedly marketed for those
over age 7 but it's the exact same thing as in the pediatric
DPT so most pediatricians I've talked to about this are
completely comfortable using the single T in babies.

Cheers,

Emily Kane ND LAc

Juneau AK



www.DrEmilyKane.com

kalliphillips

Message 4 of 25 , May 29 3:26 PM[-- Image: Frame3 --]



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It's my understanding that the rates of sero-conversion are not
as high with first vaccination
to tetanus alone. This is why it is combined with diphtheria and
pertussis. The additive
effect of immune response to D & T increases the immune response
to tetanus. Running a
titer is recommended to be sure of conversion if tetanus is
given alone.

This is from the outer reaches of my memory of immunology, and I
don't have my notes to
consult, so I beg pardon if I'm mis-remembering.

Kalli Phillips ND
NCNM
rainy Eugene, Oregon

Kristin Becker, ND

Message 5 of 25 , May 29 6:53 PM[-- Image: Frame4 --]



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Any ideas on how to help the body/liver excrete the aluminum
after a
vaccination? Liver support? Bentonite? Hydrotherapy? Kristin
Becker, St Paul MN

Winston Cardwell

Message 6 of 25 , May 29 9:55 PM[-- Image: Frame5 --]



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Kristen,



For that purpose, I would consider Malic acid – accding to David
Quigg at Doctors Data there is some new research around malic
acid combined with magnesium (possibly human studies) I came up
with this in a quick pubmed search; not sure how much it helps.





Biol Trace Elem Res. 2007 Winter;120(1-3):257-63.

Reduction of aluminum toxicity by 2-isopropylmalic acid in the
budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Suzuki T, Tamura S, Nakanishi H, Tashiro M, Nishizawa
NK, Yoshimura E.

Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, School of
Agricultural and Life Sciences, The University of Tokyo, Yayoi,
Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-5687, Japan .

The budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae secretes
2-isopropylmalic acid (2-iPMA), an intermediate in leucine
biosynthesis. Because 2-iPMA binds Al(III) in the culture
medium, it is thought to reduce toxicity by Al(III). The
effects of 2-iPMA and malic acid (MA) on Al toxicity were
investigated in a medium with a low pH and low concentrations
of phosphates and magnesium. The reduction in the growth of S.
cerevisiae observed in the presence of 100 muM Al(III) ions was
relieved more by the addition of 1.0 mM 2-iPMA than by 1.0 mM
MA, indicating that 2-iPMA possesses superior Al(III)-ion
detoxification ability. Investigations using the wild type and
the deltaleu4 and deltaleu9 mutant strains indicated that
secretion of a sufficient level of 2-iPMA was required to
enhance the Al tolerance. It is thought that 2-iPMA secreted
from the yeast cells chelates Al ions and prevents them from
entering the cells, resulting in Al tolerance.

1: J Cell Biochem. 2004 Dec 15;93(6):1267-71.

Aluminum decreases the glutathione regeneration by the
inhibition of NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase in mitochondria.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Murakami K, Yoshino M.

Department of Biochemistry, Aichi Medical University School of
Medicine, Nagakute, Aichi 480-1195, Japan .

Effect of aluminum on the NADPH supply and glutathione
regeneration in mitochondria was analyzed. Reduced glutathione
acted as a principal scavenger of reactive oxygen species in
mitochondria. Aluminum inhibited the regeneration of
glutathione from the oxidized form, and the effect was due to
the inhibition of NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase the only enzyme
supplying NADPH in mitochondria. In cytosol, aluminum inhibited
the glutathione regeneration dependent on NADPH supply by malic
enzyme and NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase, but did not affect the
glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase dependent glutathione
formation. Aluminum can cause oxidative damage on cellular
biological processes by inhibiting glutathione regeneration
through the inhibition of NADPH supply in mitochondria, but
only a little inhibitory effect on the glutathione generation
in cytosol. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.



Winston Cardwell N.D., L.Ac.



Spherios Medical Centers

5755 North Point Parkway

Suite 74

Alpharetta, Georgia 30022

(678) 218-4230

(678) 218-4281 fax

www.rethinkyourhealth.com



Wendy Hodsdon

Message 7 of 25 , May 30 4:08 AM[-- Image: Frame6 --]



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I thought that DPT was not available as singles because the
immunogenicity of DPT is dependent on Pertussis. In other
words,
pertussis acts as an adjuvant for Diphtheria and Tetanus. A
significantly smaller response happens in the absence of
Pertusses.
That is what my notes say from the seminar "the vaccine
Balancing act"
that Zwickey and Andrews gave in November of 2005.
I hope that helps -
Wendy Hodsdon, ND
www.portlandalternativemedicine.com

[email protected]

Message 8 of 25 , May 30 4:13 AM[-- Image: Frame7 --]



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Hi Wendy,

That's interesting -- I never heard of that.  The vaccines used
to be available singly, and again recently as I mentioned in
the previous post Aventis is marketing "preservative free"
Tetanus alone which actually is preserved with a small amount
of aluminum.

Emily Kane ND LAc

Juneau AK



www.DrEmilyKane.com

Dr. Virginia Oram

Message 9 of 25 , May 30 4:42 AM[-- Image: Frame8 --]



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Tetanus is definitely available singly.  My colleague at my
office uses it all the time.  It is the only vaccine he gives.

Multi-dose vials always have a preservative - mercury or
aluminum.  I don't think the aluminum is any better.  If one
choses to vaccinate, the single vaccines with no preservatives
are best, I believe.  I think they are available, it is more of
a question of whether their MD is willing to order the single
dose vial (more expensive & possibly a hassle for them to
order).

Sanofi Pasteur makes our tetanus vaccines.

Virginia Oram, ND

virginia@...

400 East 2nd Avenue, Suite 105

Eugene, Oregon 97401

541.343.2384 phone

541.485.3602 fax

www.DrOram.com

Vibrant health is a Natural Path Away!

kimberlylandino

Message 10 of 25 , Mar 17, 2011[-- Image: Frame9 --]



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Hello Fellow NDs-

I have a patient who is choosing to vaccinate her baby ( I wish
she wouldn't...) who already received the HepB after birth last
week and she would like for her baby to receive less
vaccinations at one time in the near future.
Any NDs in the Phoenix area who can refer me to an MD who gives
less vaccinations at once would be helpful.

Thanks!

Kimberly Landino, ND
Tempe, AZ

drdeanna

Message 11 of 25 , Mar 30[-- Image: Frame10 --]



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Hi All,
With the recent outbreaks of measles in NY and California, I am
wondering what people are suggesting to their patients as far
as vaccinations.  I have always been supportive of not
vaccinating, but last summer when my daughter had pertussis, I
started questioning it.  If someone gets measles and ends up
with encephalitis, the consequences of that can be life long.
30% of measles cases develop complications.  (In the recent
outbreak in California, about 1/3 ended up in the hospital)
What about if you end up in the hospital from measles and then
develop another infection.  These infections are all getting
more virulent.  They are mutating, not only due to vaccinating,
but due to GMOs and toxins in the environment.  There are no
ways to get away from these things.  Also, living in lyme
country, so many have a weakened immune system due to lyme and
associated diseases and don't know it.  Anyway, just wanted to
hear other thoughts.
Deanna Berman, ND, CM
Ithaca, NY

greendoc61

Message 12 of 25 , Mar 30[-- Image: Frame11 --]



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HI Dr. Deanna,

I think this is a topic we need to have a serious
profession-wide discussion about. I was just talking with it
about a colleague about starting a thread on natchat.  I was a
geolopgy major before going to ND school and have been peak oil
aware for going on 30 years now.  I strongly believe the future
will not be like the past: we are facing staggering economic,
environmental and energy challenges.  There is even a small
movement amongst allopaths who recognize these threats to
conventional medicine. You can educate yourself here at these
websites;
www.peakprosperity.com (watch the crash course)
or http://www.postpeakmedicine.com/.

Long story short: we can no longer rely on herd immunity to
protect our unvaccinated children.  And it is hard to find wild
cases to expose children to and an appropriate time so they can
have life long immunity. We have a generation of mothers who,
even if they breastfed, do not have high Ab titers as they
never had the diseases.  I think our future will see a
breakdown of current vaccine practices and these now uncommon
UCD's will become "usual" again.  I choose to recently have my
15 year old son vaccinated with MMR.
I was hoping before now we could expose him to a case and he
could have the disease, but no such luck. Who knows what kind
of medical care will be available 20 years from now?  And these
childhood diseases can be more devastating as an adult.  I also
had him vaccinated with DPT several years back when we had an
outbreak of pertussis. Our family regularly associated with
friends with newborn infants and I felt morally and ethically
moved to not be the weak link that could possibly transmit
pertussis to another.

Mind you, my son got no vaccinations for the first 5 years of
his life and was breastfed 4 years.  I had measles, mumps,
rubella and chickenpox as a kid in the 60s.  He had chickenpox
when he was 6, so covered there. We also had him vaccinated for
polio at 7 when we were doing some international travel and
there was the possibility of encountering wild polio. He is
currently healthy as a horse.  I just felt it would be
irresponsible to send him out in to an uncertain future without
giving him some chance of immunity, even if imperfect, but tried
to do it so his immune system could handle in an appropriate way
rather than follow the CDC schedule.

I would love to hear what other NDs with kids are doing, as well
as for patients in their practice. I would also love to start a
dialogue about peak medicine, but that is another thread.

Looking forward to hearing all the wisdom out there, this is
just the path I have negotiated so far.
Claire Green, ND
Santa Rosa, CA

Kristin Cox

Message 13 of 25 , Mar 31[-- Image: Frame12 --]



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I would appreciate a constructive discussion about this, though
I know there are strong feelings on both sides.  My daughter is
10 years old.  She was breast fed for 2.5 years and is very
healthy.  She had not taken an antibiotic until this winter
when I went out of town and she got Pertussis.  It was no big
deal at all for her, and now she has permanent immunity (of
course, I know that I am obligated to keep her away from more
vulnerable infants).  Most of her school classroom had the same
cough, though only the unvaccinated children were tested for
Pertussis.

My intention was not that she benefit from herd immunity and be
protected from getting these illness'.  I wanted her to get
these illness' as a healthy young child when they would affect
her less.  Though it is difficult to contract these illness'
these days.  I tried several times to inoculate her with
varicella and the most I got was one pock.  I hope she has had
the chickenpox and is now immune, but I am not convinced.

Now that she is 10 and hasn't had most of these illness', do I
vaccinate her now, or not?  Her pediatrician recommended
reading Dr. Sears vaccine book and I did.  It actually
convinced me not to vaccinate her since the risks of her
getting these illness are so small now.  I did learn something
that concerned me and that was that giving the MMR after
puberty significantly increases risk for RA.  So if you are
going to vaccinate for MMR it should be done at age 10, before
puberty.

If you haven't read An Epidemic of Absence, by Moises
Velasquez-Manoff, you should.  It doesn't address vaccine
preventable illness and vaccines as much as parasites and other
environmental bacteria, but this is my main concern with
vaccines is the unintended, long-term consequences of not
contracting these infections as children.

Thank you.

Kristin Cox
Juneau, AK



Emily Kane

Message 14 of 25 , Mar 31[-- Image: Frame13 --]



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Kristin

I vaccinated Katherine with MMR mostly so she could not possibly
expose a future conception to Rubella, before she menstruated.
She also got pertussis the disease 2 years ago and the most
helpful remedy, though her cough did last 100 days, was the
salmon DNA Mucolyxir Torrey Smith wrote into NatChat about. I
also gave Katherine the Gardasil series after much deliberation
because Rick Marnelli died of HPV throat cancer and Pam Snider
and John Weeks both nearly died of it. Before we travelled to
Europe together for the first time when she was 11 I gave her
polio vaccine. She has also had tetanus alone at age 18 months
and a booster at age 11. That's it.  To

www.DrEmilyKane.com

www.naturopathic.org

"Let your highest aspiration organize your life."

Emily Kane

Message 15 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame14 --]



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Sorry sent before signing and trimming

Emily Kane ND

just returning from PRP/ozone training :)

www.DrEmilyKane.com

www.naturopathic.org

"Let your highest aspiration organize your life."

Michelle Simon

Message 16 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame15 --]



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Hi Clare,

I appreciate your position.  The AANP Scientific Affairs
Committee has been discussing this topic for the past year.
There is a large evidence base and vaccination technology is
always changing as is epidemiology data and our understanding
of the immune system.  My question to you, and others, is what
would be the best venue for a profession wide discussion on
vaccination?  Some ideas are a conference session, a
preconference summit on the topic, several online continuing
education modules, etc.  What do you think would best serve us
all?



Thanks for your input on this important topic.

Regards,

Michelle

Michelle A Simon PhD ND

drdeanna

Message 17 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame16 --]



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It would be great if we could reach as many people as possible.
What if we had a webinar series with a couple of speakers and
then an online discussion after.  This way it would all be
recorded and if people were not aware of it happening, but want
to join in or read after it already happened, that would be
possible.  We could set up a yahoo group just for vaccination
discussions if there was enough interest.  We could also expand
to discussions of immune system insults due to environmental
toxins, not just vaccinations and the increase in antibiotic
resistant infections.
Deanna Berman, ND, CM
Ithaca, NY

Amanda Richardson-Meyer

Message 18 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image:
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Kristin,

How about checking her titers?

Amanda Richardons-Meyer, ND
Corvallis Naturopathic

Corvallis, OR

Eric Blake

Message 19 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame17 --]



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That is a great question Michelle and a very good idea for such
a very complicated topic

I wouldn't think this forum is the place for organized evolution
of a policy or position. Great place for chatting and hashing
through experience and ideas, but not for more formal positions
to develop.  It is a topic that we need to evaluate in a larger
and more meaningful context that has a variety of positions
that need be represented.  It certainly is not an either /or
ideological position for a lot of us anymore

Dr. Eric Blake
Naturopathic Physician and Diplomate of Acupuncture

J. Claire Green

Message 20 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame18 --]



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I think Natchat/yahoo group not an ideal forum for this topic.
I do think a webinar (with pharmacy CME's!) probably the best
forum.
I did a search on pubmed and found conflicting research..isn't
that always the case!

fully vaccinated as children males get orchitis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24655811

recently vaccinated males get orchitis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20085834

unvaccinated male adolescents makes get orchitis
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100330082722.htm

I would be interested in how ABO types effect immunity or
increase risk of complications.

Also, another topic I hope the AANP is looking into is the
general topic of Peak Medicine or the future of medicine in an
energy constrained world where standards of care decline.

J. Claire Green, N.D.
greendoc61@...
NPI #1679916084
California License #ND-215

707-490-7053 cell
707-544-1362 home
Santa Rosa, CA 95404

drdougcutler

Message 21 of 25 , Apr 2[-- Image: Frame19 --]



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I agree with Eric.

Is the goal of the AANP to change the current position on
vaccines? And other than quackwatch.org is there another source
for the position?

Regards,

Doug Cutler, ND

Southfield, MI

O: 248-663-0165

www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com

jacobschor

Message 22 of 25 , Apr 2[-- Image: Frame20 --]



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Doug,

I can't speak for the entire AANP board but from my corner of
the universe, it appears that many of the thoughts regarding
vaccines I left school with were formulated in the late 1800s
and somehow preserved and handed down to us intact.  I recently
wrote a short review for the Townsend Letter (I should check if
it's been printed yet, i've got it posted on our clinic website
though and will find the link:
 http://denvernaturopathic.com/on-specificeffectsofvaccines.htm )
on the non-specific effects of vaccinations.  I won't detail
that information here, but the bottom line is the action of
vaccines is complex and we have done a lousy job of keeping up
with the data.  My knee-jerk reaction is to distrust them, to
see the entire agenda as a conspiracy and not believe anything
I'm told or read.  Yet in writing this article I was surprised
by some of the fringe benefits vaccinations trigger in immune
function and suspect we should be taking advantage of them
rather than avoiding some of them.

I think it's time that we look at the topic afresh and if
Michelle Simon et al can provide some decent up to date
information, I'd like to get some new perspective on the topic.
 I think as everyone has said so far that nat-chat isn't the
correct forum.  I too am thinking of webinar in combination
with print articles in NMJ (I'm forever looking for material)
that gives us Rx CE (I'm always looking even harder to get
those stupid Rx hours.).

drdougcutler

Message 23 of 25 , Apr 3[-- Image:
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Thanks Jacob, I always enjoy your reads and perspective.

So correct me if I am wrong, it sounds like the AANP is indeed
looking to come up with a new/updated position on vaccines? If
webinars and articles will be the preferred route for that
goal, maybe we can continue to add the possible topics on
NatChat with both sides of the debate?

Personally, I would like to see a topic challenging the entire
concept of vaccines without dismissing it as a "conspiracy".
With that challenge, facts laid out that can obviously be
debated as with any study, expert opinion, etc. But at least
with the final goal (of that challenge) in not giving vaccines
an automatic free pass. To question what we know and don't know
and if we really don't know what we claim to know. To look at
each individual ingredient (thimerosal, aluminum, formaldehyde,
MSG, phenoxyethanol, antibiotics, etc) and why as NDs we would
never allow these toxic ingredients to be in patient's
supplements, food and water - yet we allow them in vaccines? To
discuss why this is so and why generally, there aren't concerns
with these toxic ingredients?

To discuss how we as NDs and as a population see a news story
about a scary outbreak (which really isn't an outbreak) and
then come on NatChat wondering what to do about it. To look at
ways to treat childhood diseases with naturopathic medicine
when needed. To look at ways to improve vaccines which really
are outdated and archaic with the above toxic ingredients and
look for safer alternatives that will help "stimulate" the
immune response or just continue to add a booster to a booster
to a booster. To discuss if "first do no harm" is more
important than "prevention" or vice versa and if vaccines
really even fit in those categories.

And lastly, I would like to see a part of the topic to properly
train docs (who vaccinate) on how they should prepare their
patients for the above toxic ingredients by first addressing
genetic polymorphisms, nutritional deficiencies, food
allergies/sensitivities and parent's toxic burden before
conception. That way, I won't have to continue to see vaccine
injured patients who are very difficult in recovering and
supposedly don't exist in our society.

Regards,

Doug Cutler, ND

Southfield, MI

O: 248-663-0165

www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com

Kristin Cox

Message 24 of 25 , Apr 5[-- Image: Frame21 --]



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Emily, MMR is the one that I think of for my daughter, but then
I think that her chances of getting RA (increased risk from MMR
vaccine) is probably better than getting MMR while she's
pregnant (in the US).

Also, don't you need Pertussis to make the diptheria and tetanus
effective?

I have considered checking her titers.  I'll do it eventually
and before vaccinating her for varicella.

Kristin Cox

Juneau, AK

Anne Van Couvering

Message 25 of 25 , Apr 5[-- Image: Frame22 --]



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nicely said, Doug.

Anne Van Couvering, ND, LMT, CNS

(917) 653-7406

annevanc@...

"It's only work if you'd rather be doing something else."  -
Abigail Van Buren (Dear Abby)