[BAW]Mephi: i won that lots yeah but i still dont feel like im having a very good gameknowledge or something
Blodir: yeah xd
[BAW]Mephi: or understanding of balance
Blodir: i feel like everyone is insane crap
Blodir: it'd be so much more interesting
[BAW]Mephi: just spamming apm
Blodir: to just have a couple of maps
Blodir: and see
Blodir: who can become the best
Blodir: when its about the details
Blodir: instead of improvising
[BAW]Mephi: dunno if we would get the best results then
[BAW]Mephi: maybe on those maps
[BAW]Mephi: but not overall skill i think
Blodir: what is overall skill
Blodir: it's defined by the community
[BAW]Mephi: if sb would be able to play every map good even without knowing them
Blodir: that's impossible
[BAW]Mephi: such a deep understanding that the map layout doesnt even matter
Blodir: or very close to
Blodir: and imo it makes for boring watching
Blodir: when i watch a game of supcom
Blodir: i have no fucking clue whats going on
Blodir: i dont understand the context of the situation at all
Blodir: because everyone does things differently
Blodir: have different number of factories in different places etc. different buildorders
[BAW]Mephi: i dont rlly understand what you mean
Blodir: when i understand whats going on
Blodir: understand a couple of common things in the metagame
Blodir: like in sc2
Blodir: it gets infinitely more interesting to watch
Blodir: because i have something to relate to
Blodir: theres a metagame i can compare the current events in the game to
Blodir: atm the metagame is so loose i dont really have any context
Blodir: it's kind of hard to describe i guess
Blodir: but i think the most important thing
[BAW]Mephi: i think i get waht you mean
Blodir: is the difference of what the two players are doing
[BAW]Mephi: at least to some extend
Blodir: not the absolute thing they are doing
Blodir: its relative
Blodir: not absolute
Blodir: humans dont understand things in absolute terms
Blodir: everything is compared to something else
[BAW]Mephi: the smal differences
Blodir: thats just how humans work
[BAW]Mephi: a walk route
[BAW]Mephi: a building placement
[BAW]Mephi: a mex upgrade etc.
Blodir: yeah if i can be like "this is how its usually done, oh interesting he does it in a different way" thats way more interesting
Blodir: than just looking at where some building is placed
Blodir: and being like
Blodir: "thats a factory"
Blodir: xD
[BAW]Mephi: thats probably because a lot of stuff is random
[BAW]Mephi: in sc2 every building has a good reason to be where it is
[BAW]Mephi: in supcom thats not so relevena
[BAW]Mephi: t
Blodir: well building placement was just an example
[BAW]Mephi: yeah
Blodir: can be for example timing of a raiding party
Blodir: which matters a ton
Blodir: you can play the metagame a lot with that
[BAW]Mephi: but i think there is also space for improvement
[BAW]Mephi: basemanagement overall
Blodir: yes even if everyone whored syrtis all day, there'd still be people who are just a little bit efficient
Blodir: and those small differences would add up
Blodir: and that'd be cool
[BAW]Mephi: how much engies are walking where to build which building and stuff
Blodir: and there'd be other people
Blodir: who were more focused on micro
Blodir: and would micro their raids all day
Blodir: less efficient in eco, but getting more value out of their units
[BAW]Mephi: yeah but in supcom imo macro has an advantage over micro
[BAW]Mephi: units here are build to be killed
Blodir: yes because everyone has really shit macro
[BAW]Mephi: not like in sc2
[BAW]Mephi: where single units actually matter
[BAW]Mephi: also unit mix isnt important because youre having unlimited supply
Blodir: if everyone was close to max efficiency on macro
Blodir: then obviously the way they interact with the opponent
Blodir: would be more important
Blodir: in comparison
[BAW]Mephi: yes
Blodir: atm you are playing against the game more than your opponent
[BAW]Mephi: yes atm its more like mastering your own busniess than reacting to waht your opponent is doing
Blodir: yeah
Blodir: i just think it would be super cool to see games where people know exactly what they are doing etc
Blodir: and i think with a massive number of different maps its really quite impossible to reach
[BAW]Mephi: ^^
[BAW]Mephi: were often getting to this topic
Blodir: and even if it was possible
Blodir: if there was 2 people
Blodir: who were so insanely good
Blodir: they played near perfect
Blodir: on every map imaginable
Blodir: nobody would be able to really appreciate it
Blodir: because it requires understanding from the viewer
[BAW]Mephi: yes
[BAW]Mephi: but thats the same with everything
Blodir: if theres a metagame, the viewer kinda knows whats normal
[BAW]Mephi: arts, maths, physics
Blodir: sure sure, but its a totally different magnitude
[BAW]Mephi: you cant appreicate something if you dont understand it
[BAW]Mephi: yeah
[BAW]Mephi: the difference in supcom is bigger than in sc2
Blodir: if you saw a lot of super high level games in 1 single map
Blodir: you would develop a sense of metagame
Blodir: even if you are not good yourself
Blodir: you would be able to guess at what they will do next
Blodir: because youve seen it before
[BAW]Mephi: well to some extend were having it here too
Blodir: you may not be able to execute it, but you'll still have something to hang on to
Blodir: yes, theres a little bit of that
Blodir: theres very loose metagames for a few maps
Blodir: that only a handful players even know tbh
Blodir: like loki
Blodir: for example
Blodir: everyone below top 10 does random shit xD
[BAW]Mephi: actually dunno if there is a real meta
[BAW]Mephi: its more like a bo
Blodir: but top 10 theres somewhat standard bo
[BAW]Mephi: which is currently the best
Blodir: well
Blodir: its the bo and general gameflow
Blodir: like theres a lot of variations
Blodir: but the standard is going fast t2 land and some t2 mex
Blodir: pushing with acu to opposite side
Blodir: etc
Blodir: you can kinda tell
[BAW]Mephi: yeah
Blodir: but its very loose
[BAW]Mephi: but i dunno if a very stare meta would be better
Blodir: no, it would simply allow you to see the differences in each others play
[BAW]Mephi: but yeah there are some things that happen in every loky game
Blodir: then you could mess with the meta if you want
[BAW]Mephi: drops behind the base for example
[BAW]Mephi: should happen inevery game tbh
Blodir: yeah
Blodir: and you know what
Blodir: when people started doing that every game
Blodir: then someone realises
Blodir: oh this is the standard timing for the drop on that build
[BAW]Mephi: yeah
Blodir: i'll send inties there pre emptively
[BAW]Mephi: i understand now
[BAW]Mephi: though current builds arent developed far enough for something like that
Blodir: i mean i get where people are coming from when they say that playing same maps is boring etc
[BAW]Mephi: small differences happen everytime
Blodir: but i dont think they usually understand where i'm coming from
[BAW]Mephi: i understand you now
[BAW]Mephi: at least more than before
Blodir: :)
Blodir: maybe i will just start hosting a map pool of 5 maps custom 1v1 constantly
Blodir: but its not really the same as ladder
[BAW]Mephi: establishing new metas? :p
Blodir: yeah
Blodir: well
Blodir: it needs more players than one to establish new meta
[BAW]Mephi: just win all of them and there will be^^
Blodir: ^^
[BAW]Mephi: but tbh if im playing a map multiple times in a row
Blodir: perhaps i will make clan for people who want to whore like i do xD
[BAW]Mephi: im trying to use overall different styles
Blodir: yea
[BAW]Mephi: at least if the last one worked
Blodir: you can have a handful of bo
Blodir: just look at gala xD
Blodir: he had a lot of different bos that were all good
[BAW]Mephi: i was glas seing gala back
[BAW]Mephi: glad
[BAW]Mephi: he evolved sentons basicly
Blodir: yeah, on his games i can see how 1v1 could be
[BAW]Mephi: everybody was just copying what he was doing
Blodir: and i mean
Blodir: hes even a pretty shitty player xD
Blodir: mechanically
[BAW]Mephi: tbh i think i can only judge that to an average level
[BAW]Mephi: dont rlly know how i should measure
Blodir: yeah
Blodir: measuring skill is difficult
Blodir: everyone has their own idea of what they consider skillful
[BAW]Mephi: y
[BAW]Mephi: it even starts with maps
[BAW]Mephi: sb say 5km are more skillfull to play some other say 20km
[BAW]Mephi: every units matter or the big picture does matter
[BAW]Mephi: brnks stream has 90 viewers
[BAW]Mephi: i think thats more than every other supcom stream ever
[BAW]Mephi: at least on faf
Blodir: yeah people define what they want to view as skillful
Blodir: like if we only had a couple of standard 1v1 maps that were rotated in the poll
Blodir: then nobody would give a shit about being good in some random map
Blodir: if all tournaments were held in just a few maps
Blodir: why would anyone give a shit about whos the best at africa
Blodir: and everyone would consider the best supcom player the one who plays best on the maps that are played
Blodir: that do matter
[BAW]Mephi: yeah
Blodir: just like nobody gives a shit whos the best at 40x40km map
Blodir: he has had 120 before or more i'm pretty sure
[BAW]Mephi: would probably also be better for the community
Blodir: and we've had a few other streams at 100 before i think
[BAW]Mephi: if everybody would play the same maps
Blodir: yep
Blodir: it would add some unity
[BAW]Mephi: atm its basicly split
Blodir: you know if i helped you understand my point of view
Blodir: perhaps should copy chatlog somewhere