5:05 PM <•dano19> hej hej why we lose JS http://www.phpied.com/files/location-location/location-location.html
5:06 PM <•spaz> hey dano19
5:06 PM <•spaz> how are you?
5:07 PM <•dano19> good, learning c
5:08 PM <•spaz> nice
5:08 PM <•spaz> how is it going?
5:08 PM <•dano19> fine,
5:08 PM <•dano19> i have to take text from SimpleProgrammingLanguage and convert to C
5:08 PM <•dano19> much fun
5:08 PM <•spaz> that for school?
5:09 PM <•dano19> yes
5:09 PM <•spaz> is it hard to learn?
5:10 PM <•dano19> nope, just time consuming
5:10 PM <•spaz> aw
5:10 PM <•spaz> so no vpop updates then?
5:11 PM <•dano19> not until i am done with this, so wednesday
5:11 PM <•dano19> its official date i am breaking up for xmas
5:12 PM <•spaz> what do you plan on doing about the problem
5:12 PM <•spaz> with countries
5:12 PM <•dano19> what countries?
5:12 PM <•spaz> exactly
5:12 PM <venja> hospitals is the problem
5:12 PM <•dano19> i though poland already won the game
5:12 PM <•spaz> they did
5:12 PM <•dano19> so they took over whole world?
5:13 PM <•spaz> I guess
5:13 PM <•dano19> global domination?
5:13 PM <•spaz> I think so
5:13 PM <•spaz> maybe time to end vpop
5:13 PM <•spaz> and start coding something more interesting
5:13 PM <•dano19> well, the vpop will end when someone will take over every single region on the map
5:14 PM <venja> lol
5:14 PM <•dano19> though Klavh told you already
5:15 PM <•spaz> nope
5:15 PM <•spaz> he doesn't tell us anything useful
5:16 PM <•dano19> god damn it Klavh
5:16 PM <•dano19> why u not useful
5:17 PM <•spaz> you should create space themed vpop game
5:17 PM <•dano19> well, i should probably go back to doing stuff
5:17 PM <•spaz> just put planets instead of countries
5:17 PM <•dano19> we got 4/5 different ideas for that
5:17 PM <•dano19> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoPJWCzpPgU
5:17 PM <{{> YouTube Dualistic & NCT - The Unknown | 58618 | 1713 | 17 | http://youtu.be/DoPJWCzpPgU
5:17 PM <•spaz> our solar system
5:17 PM <•dano19> maybe not that far but we will stay on earth for now
5:18 PM <•dano19> maybe include moon into the game as first step to space domination
5:18 PM <•spaz> a few planets are more likely to make the game stable than a bunch of countries
5:18 PM <•spaz> especially considering most players are polish
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5:19 PM <•dano19> well, i think Klavh will be mad if i say this but in new release u will be able to propose your own country
5:19 PM <•spaz> but real countries will still be included?
5:19 PM <•dano19> yes
5:20 PM <•dano19> but u can make spazland!
5:20 PM <•spaz> I don't think that will work very well
5:20 PM <venja> nope
5:20 PM <•spaz> if people wanted their own country they'd just take one over. flag and name aren't all that important
5:21 PM <•dano19> its still will be real life ish based game with new features
5:22 PM <•dano19> we still aim for v1 ish game but with features that won't make it pay2win
5:22 PM <•spaz> but then you will still have same population
5:22 PM <•spaz> resulting in poles winning everything again
5:23 PM <•dano19> your logic is kinda wrong spaz
5:23 PM <venja> hospital rules are flawed
5:23 PM <•dano19> you said yourself flag and name won't matter
5:23 PM <•dano19> so there will be poland country anyway
5:23 PM <venja> once a country becomes dominant, other countries will slowly die off
5:23 PM <•dano19> i don't see how hospitals country improved
5:24 PM <•spaz> dano19 for those who want their own country it doesn't matter, but for those who want to play for their rl country it does
5:24 PM <•dano19> not destroying hospitals while capturing region?
5:24 PM <•spaz> which is most people
5:24 PM <venja> hospital gives too much power
5:24 PM <venja> country without Q5 cannot retain players
5:25 PM <•dano19> well, i don't really remember that countries started to die off in v1
5:25 PM <•dano19> because of hospitals
5:25 PM <venja> well it happened in both versions of vpop
5:25 PM <•spaz> erep v1 was lucky to be well balanced
5:26 PM <•spaz> I mean
5:26 PM <•spaz> alliances
5:26 PM <venja> erep v1 was better balanced with much larger populations
5:26 PM <•dano19> something that we lack
5:26 PM <venja> but the V1 economy was slowly being strangled anyway
5:27 PM <venja> hence why they tried V2
5:27 PM <•spaz> the less people play the bigger advantage over others you get from a hospital
5:27 PM <•dano19> economy is always going to be an issue
5:27 PM <•dano19> you cannot have perfect economy, no such thing exists
5:27 PM <venja> the hospital rules provide too much relative strength
5:27 PM <venja> dano, the problem in V1 economy was lack of diversity
5:28 PM <•dano19> so they added cows and deers
5:28 PM <venja> no they added new work skills
5:28 PM <•dano19> and they killed with personal companies
5:28 PM <venja> lets not confuse V3 with V2
5:28 PM <•dano19> was happiness in v2 or v3
5:29 PM <•spaz> v2 was nice
5:29 PM <venja> V2
5:29 PM <venja> i am not saying V2 had all teh answers
5:29 PM <•dano19> well, at least you didn't heard Klavh idea to marge all skills into 1
5:29 PM <•dano19> now u did xd
5:29 PM <venja> but they were truing to break out of the simple V1 model
5:29 PM <•spaz> I liked the military module but it was buggy and time consuming
5:30 PM <venja> merging skills was one of the bad things erep has done
5:30 PM <•dano19> hex fights won't happen to us for sure
5:31 PM <venja> anyway I think the biggest flaw in vpop is the dominance of hospitals
5:31 PM <venja> if you dont change it, you will keep seeing 1 country quickly become dominant
5:31 PM <•dano19> well, this is race, fastest will win
5:31 PM <•spaz> many countries had q5 hospital
5:32 PM <venja> well all that didnt collapsed fairly quickly
5:32 PM <venja> then it was a case of which country could grind down all of the others
5:32 PM <venja> when a country lost their Q5 it was virtually game over
5:33 PM <•spaz> not enough people left playing to recover
5:33 PM <•dano19> q4 hospital is still quite powerful
5:33 PM <venja> realistically you go from Q5 to Q3
5:33 PM <venja> from there it is very hard to recover
5:34 PM <venja> Your ability to defend is down by 40%
5:34 PM <•dano19> we could possibly let hospitals keep lvl while resistance battle is won
5:34 PM <•spaz> I think you should make hospitals tied to countries, not regions
5:34 PM <venja> your training for ranking up is down 40%
5:34 PM <venja> all could ideas
5:34 PM <•spaz> and have an option to upgrade already built hospitals
5:35 PM <venja> I would prefer to see hospitals have an AoE
5:35 PM <•dano19> wouldn't hospital tied to a country be really, lets say overpowered?
5:35 PM <•dano19> it would mean once you have q5 you have q5
5:35 PM <•spaz> yeah
5:35 PM <•dano19> unless u lose all regions
5:35 PM <•spaz> I guess
5:35 PM <•spaz> hmm
5:36 PM <venja> i definitely think it would be good to re-upgrade a hospital
5:36 PM <•dano19> thats an idea for new features
5:36 PM <venja> having to start a new Q5 from scratch is a very big project for a poor country
5:37 PM <venja> basic problem is that hospitals are too expensive and too powerful
5:37 PM <•dano19> yeah thats what the new construction system will be like
5:37 PM <•dano19> you will have construction company capable of build q1 and upgrade any construction to higher quality
5:37 PM <venja> that would be a good start
5:38 PM <•spaz> maybe changing how hospitals work completely is a good idea
5:38 PM <venja> indeed
5:38 PM <•dano19> in what way
5:38 PM <venja> AoE
5:38 PM <•dano19> yeah because i played like 2h of AoE in my whole life :|
5:38 PM <venja> and change MPP's so that you have to move to a fight
5:38 PM <venja> area of effect
5:39 PM <•dano19> oh, i though you mean Age of Empire
5:39 PM <venja> so you need to be near a hospital to gain its effect
5:39 PM <•spaz> maybe you could redesign work skills and have people work in a hospital, the more people you have working there the more people can heal
5:39 PM <•dano19> spoiler alert: There will be students in vpop xd
5:39 PM <venja> I kind of liked the idea that hospitals wore out as you used them
5:39 PM <venja> so you need to replace them
5:40 PM <venja> have to make them chepaer as welll of course
5:40 PM <•spaz> oh, that could work if you tie them to a country
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5:40 PM <venja> would encourage more hospitals
5:40 PM <venja> bigger countries would have to replace more often etc
5:41 PM <•spaz> yep
5:41 PM <•dano19> let me add it to the list
5:41 PM <Alevenox> yep
5:41 PM <•spaz> that would help prevent domination
5:41 PM <venja> if you make a citizen travel to a fight and hospitals benefit is felt only when you are close to hospital, tactics would be lot stronger
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5:43 PM <•dano19> when you are saying AoE do you mean like place the hospital in the middle of the country and regions 1 square away will be affected by it?
5:43 PM <venja> countries would need to install new hospitals as they expand
5:43 PM <•spaz> change travel system!
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5:43 PM <venja> yes
5:43 PM <•spaz> it's horrible
5:43 PM <venja> cheaper tickets
5:43 PM <•Kriszke> wow
5:43 PM <•Kriszke> so much chat here
5:43 PM <venja> maybe use a cool down
5:44 PM <venja> yes
5:44 PM <venja> so maybe the effect is reduced by 20% for each distance away from hospital
5:44 PM <venja> would encourage multiple hospitals
5:44 PM <•dano19> so if you got q1 it will cover only the main square
5:44 PM <venja> yes
5:44 PM <•dano19> h5 will cover 5 squares away
5:45 PM <•dano19> actually 4*
5:45 PM <venja> something like that
5:45 PM <•spaz> no need to reduce the effect imo
5:45 PM <•dano19> since 5th will be 0%
5:45 PM <venja> there are a few different ways but you have the general idea
5:45 PM <venja> but you need to change MPP rules as well
5:45 PM <venja> pointless if you just stay in hospital region and can fight anywhere
5:46 PM <•spaz> make tickets easy to produce, completely remove MPPs?
5:46 PM <venja> maybe use MPP's for other things
5:47 PM <venja> like link ability to use hospital to MPP'd counries
5:47 PM <•dano19> i never liked MPPs to be honest since it kinda kills reality
5:47 PM <venja> yep
5:47 PM <•spaz> would AoE of a hospital count for enemy regions?
5:47 PM <•dano19> because how can you fight in poland while being in USA
5:47 PM <venja> spaz, I am thinking yes
5:47 PM <venja> but only if your Cz is MPP linked
5:48 PM <venja> Dano, I reckon make soldiers travel to the region of teh battle
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5:48 PM <•dano19> so you are saying if poland will place hospital on the bored with hungary and they are at war hungary can still use this hospital?
5:48 PM <venja> use any hospitals in that area
5:48 PM <•spaz> maybe MPP should give you the ability to move (when there is active battle) without a ticket
5:48 PM <venja> only if Poland and Hungary MPP'd
5:49 PM <venja> if they are at war, then No
5:49 PM <•dano19> so MPPs would only exists to use the hospital
5:49 PM <•dano19> in this country
5:49 PM <venja> well there are probably other ways to use as well
5:50 PM <•dano19> wouldn't this create problem of really close together allies?
5:50 PM <venja> well you would probably get 2 strong alliances
5:51 PM <•spaz> why would that be a problem?
5:51 PM <venja> but the biggest alliance would need more and more hospitals to defend their regions
5:51 PM <venja> the newly conquered regions would be relatively easy to take back
5:52 PM <•dano19> how come?
5:52 PM <venja> a large ampire would in fact be quite difficult to defend
5:52 PM <venja> you would need to spread your troops around teh border regions
5:52 PM <•dano19> yeah in this case AoE hospital sounds pretty good
5:53 PM <•spaz> couldn't you just travel back to hospital region to heal?
5:53 PM <venja> well it needs a bit of work but i think its a better concept that what we currently have
5:53 PM <•dano19> not sure if you said that but what if hospital will apply only to fighters that are 5 squares away from origin?
5:53 PM <•spaz> definitely
5:54 PM <venja> spaz I reckon make tickets fairly cheap and easy to use but impose a cool down
5:54 PM <•dano19> so for example poland in france won't be able to use hospital in poland core
5:54 PM <venja> if you are beyond the range, then you build a new hospital
5:54 PM <venja> i think its best to diminish effect the further you are away
5:55 PM <•dano19> with this idea i can see 1 issues i can have to implement it, squares away
5:55 PM <venja> Poland would then need a network of hospitals to support their empire
5:55 PM <•dano19> the way to determine they
5:55 PM <•dano19> them*
5:55 PM <•spaz> heh
5:55 PM <venja> yeah not sure of the mecahnics Dano, presumably need some sort of network definition
5:56 PM <venja> shortest path
5:56 PM <venja> number of single hops
5:57 PM <•spaz> countries should have equal number of regions in that case
5:57 PM <•dano19> yeah that might be an issues
5:57 PM <venja> yeah that could be an issue
5:57 PM <•dano19> tools for map is gone
5:57 PM <•dano19> so we cannot redefine regions without it
5:58 PM <venja> mayeb a hex map is reqd :D
5:58 PM <•spaz> gone where? who made it?
5:58 PM <•dano19> Patryk made it in beta
5:58 PM <•spaz> you lost it?
5:58 PM <venja> lol
5:58 PM <•spaz> was it Klavh's fault again?
5:58 PM <•dano19> most likely
5:59 PM <•dano19> maybe it is somewhere but i wouldn't have idea how to make it work again
5:59 PM <•spaz> create it from scratch!
5:59 PM <•dano19> yeah sure
5:59 PM <Alevenox> XD
5:59 PM <•dano19> we were thinking of having better map with new framework
6:00 PM <venja> sounds like a plan
6:00 PM <•dano19> but i cannot remember the name of this framework xd
6:00 PM <venja> but i dont like the idea of real countries at same time as made up ones
6:00 PM <venja> stick with one or the other
6:00 PM <•spaz> I agree
6:01 PM <•spaz> how would you place made up countries anyway?
6:01 PM <•dano19> but i wanted to make Vatican a country :/
6:01 PM <•spaz> wherever they choose?
6:01 PM <•dano19> and conquer the world
6:01 PM <•spaz> also
6:01 PM <•dano19> it would be rather like civil war
6:02 PM <•spaz> start with very few countries
6:02 PM <•spaz> 7 is enough
6:02 PM <•dano19> if you start a civil war and you win it you can get new country
6:02 PM <venja> sounds RISKy
6:02 PM <•dano19> with name, flag, currency of your choice
6:02 PM <•dano19> if you lose it, well its gone
6:02 PM <•dano19> you cannot resistance this kind of countries
6:03 PM <venja> Dano, you could try just starting with regions and no countries
6:03 PM <•dano19> maybe but as i said i still want to keep it as real as possible
6:03 PM <venja> real regions
6:04 PM <venja> but they join forces to make countries as they want to
6:04 PM <•dano19> you know that will make mess as hell
6:05 PM <venja> probably
6:05 PM <•dano19> for example, no countries only regions
6:05 PM <•dano19> how do you register
6:05 PM <venja> well you can register for a region
6:06 PM <•dano19> and than you create country by?
6:06 PM <venja> anyway main issue for me is to fix hospitals
6:06 PM <venja> if you going to do anything try something different for hospitals
6:07 PM <•dano19> okey, but i am trying to see if the idea is possible
6:07 PM <•spaz> replace Klavh with venja
6:07 PM <•spaz> you need a useful admin
6:07 PM <•dano19> like i can see problems with market, companies, starting food for ppl
6:07 PM <venja> I would be glad to help
6:08 PM <venja> just need to rebalance hospitals and tickets
6:08 PM <•dano19> vPopulus Team is always open for people with are willing to help
6:10 PM <•dano19> i wrote down all ideas for further discussion
6:11 PM <venja> i would be happy to help explore some of these ideas