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Feb 22nd, 2017
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  1. 17:29 - MemoryThief |4F|: what kind of flavour?
  2. 17:36 - Valentine's Void the Indolant is now Online.
  3. 17:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Check out this bullshit forum thread
  4. 17:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Tell me if I'm being a good person?
  5. 17:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7543111#Comment_7543111
  6. 17:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I'm da postah
  7. 17:50 - MemoryThief |4F|: Starlin is correct here
  8. 17:50 - MemoryThief |4F|: it's basically censorship, and or the ability to degrade the forums by removing real content
  9. 17:50 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And you read my reply?
  10. 17:52 - MemoryThief |4F|: yes
  11. 17:52 - MemoryThief |4F|: you're kinda being out of control ;p
  12. 17:52 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Hmm
  13. 17:52 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Be that as it may
  14. 17:53 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I think it's fairer to say that if the people who think I'm out of control are more numerous
  15. 17:53 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And I'm getting mixed responses.
  16. 17:53 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I showed it to folks on my f'list here and after some discussion, most I've talked to love it
  17. 17:54 - MemoryThief |4F|: well it's somewhat entertaining, but that's the factor that doesn't really pertain to the situation, it's rediculous enough to join, but in the end this is an old topic from long long ago
  18. 17:55 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: So long as you realize the suggestion is for an option to essentially erase all comments on a topic and bump it
  19. 17:55 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And that it can only be used after a certain amount of time has passed since the last comment
  20. 17:55 - MemoryThief |4F|: I've had to deal with this at numerous forums and it's always the same resolve, it's based on a hierarchy of SysOps who've long ago decided the way that a neuteral forums must be run and that flag will be waved until it's proven bad in some way, but it's been a quite advanced flag and it's pretty had to find it's flaws
  21. 17:55 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Meaning it's ancient and nobody's probably going find it.
  22. 17:56 - MemoryThief |4F|: meh, that's based on perspective
  23. 17:56 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: That's the technicals.
  24. 17:57 - MemoryThief |4F|: someone might want to add to it later... and it might make a comeback; however the need to make another topic will refer to yours in some way and at that point you can expect a better continued discussion and rather not repeat certain facets of the old one but point to it
  25. 17:58 - MemoryThief |4F|: the ideas of a forums is that you beat the horse now and then get to the point where that's what happened and if anyone tries it again in the future it's only to your benefit
  26. 17:58 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Yeah but sometimes that horse only reincarnates a long, long time after
  27. 17:59 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: and sometimes it's a good horse that should be reincarnated
  28. 17:59 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But until then, you can't do it yourself
  29. 17:59 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Sometimes, other people can't do it
  30. 17:59 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: No making the same topic twice, right?
  31. 17:59 - MemoryThief |4F|: subject
  32. 17:59 - MemoryThief |4F|: topic can be the same
  33. 18:00 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Same thing, I suspect
  34. 18:00 - MemoryThief |4F|: but you can focus on a different aspect of it
  35. 18:00 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Hmm.
  36. 18:00 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Anyway, the way the forum works is someone might just find it later on
  37. 18:01 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But that's a rare coincidence.
  38. 18:01 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And by the same coincidence nobody but you's very likely to come back and read through it
  39. 18:01 - MemoryThief |4F|: search feature
  40. 18:01 - MemoryThief |4F|: you never know
  41. 18:01 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Yes, that too
  42. 18:01 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And you really don't.
  43. 18:02 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: It's because most people on the forum don't care for the search feature, all they focus on is what's newest.
  44. 18:03 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Most of them do. Thus, the rare chance that someone'll find your ancient ancient thread.
  45. 18:04 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Buried behind the crushed stones of future civilized threads
  46. 18:04 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: All buried by time
  47. 18:12 - MemoryThief |4F|: yep
  48. 18:13 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Now that we've discussed it in a bit more detail
  49. 18:13 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Does your opinion remain unweathered?
  50. 18:14 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: In short summary, the function of the feature would be to allow a thread author to erase all comments and bump the thread to the newest arrivals
  51. 18:14 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But only if the thread's remained dormant and not busy for an agreeable amount of time
  52. 18:15 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And it would probably only be doable 1 or 2 times.
  53. 18:15 - MemoryThief |4F|: that feature comes at the message to an admin to remove that thread at their discresion
  54. 18:15 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I can agree with that.
  55. 18:16 - MemoryThief |4F|: it removes value to the whole thread to have that ability, people could swoop in and come do something constructive and then steal it away and it would ruin the society
  56. 18:17 - MemoryThief |4F|: you must think of the fallout beyond this one assumed use for it
  57. 18:17 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Don't forget, they'd have to wait a good while.
  58. 18:17 - MemoryThief |4F|: what if it was voted to stay?
  59. 18:17 - MemoryThief |4F|: and you had to actively vote, not just passive nos
  60. 18:17 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Hmm
  61. 18:17 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Define actively?
  62. 18:18 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I can see a feature being added that would alert the posters that the author has sent a request for the thread to be "reborn"
  63. 18:19 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And they could vote on whether it's bumped to the new arrivals
  64. 18:19 - MemoryThief |4F|: that means you'll instantly bump the post... if it is allowed to remain in the 'will be deleted in a month' phase and be deleted people can say goodbye to the thread ; however if enough people lets say 20 would like it to stay they should overpower the one trying to remove it as they feel there is some benefit to keeping it and that as a whole is more important for the group than the one individual
  65. 18:19 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But the comments aren't wiped.
  66. 18:20 - MemoryThief |4F|: and the have to vote for it rather than voting against it staying it to get rid of it, but that also would be an interesting segment of purging
  67. 18:20 - MemoryThief |4F|: how is that not bumping it normally?
  68. 18:20 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I guess you're right but
  69. 18:20 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I guess unless the author felt they wanted the comments to be wiped
  70. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: They wouldn't have to vote
  71. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Because the way I see it, if the posters don't mind
  72. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: The author might want the comments wiped to roll the dice persay
  73. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Keep the topic from picking up on the exact same train
  74. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Even if it does deraila gain
  75. 18:21 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: derail again*
  76. 18:22 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: New source material, in other words.
  77. 18:22 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I mean, say you could bump your thread but not wipe it, even if the posters don't care
  78. 18:22 - MemoryThief |4F|: nope, you're convoluting and diluting the purity of the system
  79. 18:23 - MemoryThief |4F|: it's not set by you or me
  80. 18:23 - MemoryThief |4F|: or anyone, it's set by the group as a whole
  81. 18:23 - MemoryThief |4F|: as it's been this way for a reason for a long time and there is no change in the future i see for it
  82. 18:23 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: You said they had to actively vote for keeping the comments if they wanted the comments to stay
  83. 18:23 - MemoryThief |4F|: and I would personally do the exact same in the suituation
  84. 18:24 - MemoryThief |4F|: if it was my forums at least
  85. 18:24 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: If they don't mind, why not let the author wipe the comments?
  86. 18:24 - MemoryThief |4F|: because the ownership isn't purely the author's
  87. 18:25 - MemoryThief |4F|: who topic and the participation and history create society, anthropology and deep community
  88. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Listen.
  89. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: People usually agree that the earth should be saved, right?
  90. 18:25 - MemoryThief |4F|: from what?
  91. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: That we should recycle and remove plastic from the sea
  92. 18:25 - MemoryThief |4F|: from itself?
  93. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: From global warming, from anything
  94. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: From us
  95. 18:25 - MemoryThief |4F|: we get those things out of the earth in reality
  96. 18:25 - MemoryThief |4F|: and that's not saving the 'world' but saving the animals in the ocean
  97. 18:25 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Yes.
  98. 18:26 - MemoryThief |4F|: which is a whole different topic in reality
  99. 18:26 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And those animals are considered to be a part of the world by many.
  100. 18:26 - MemoryThief |4F|: now there is pollution which is a huge improvement over time what we used to be doing
  101. 18:26 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But the question is whether people usually agree that we should deal with those problems, right?
  102. 18:26 - MemoryThief |4F|: 'those problems' is too loosly defined to agree
  103. 18:27 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Okay, pollution and recycling and global warming
  104. 18:27 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: How about that?
  105. 18:27 - MemoryThief |4F|: global warming is a hugely debated topic and whether we're causing it or can change it at this point is very uncertain
  106. 18:28 - MemoryThief |4F|: pollution is a self fulfilling prophecy because it's a detriment to the health of the society and it functions less functionally and is of the benefit of the larger controllers to fix
  107. 18:28 - MemoryThief |4F|: despite WHAT the public thinks about it, but they seem to agree yes that this is a problem in the group think
  108. 18:28 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Okay.
  109. 18:29 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Now, compare the people who say it should be dealt with
  110. 18:29 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And the people who actually actively try to deal with it
  111. 18:29 - MemoryThief |4F|: same people
  112. 18:29 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Which group would you say has ownership of the forum
  113. 18:29 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: That is the problem?
  114. 18:30 - MemoryThief |4F|: there is a tiership
  115. 18:30 - MemoryThief |4F|: the true owner is the one paying for the hosting and domain names and has control of the physical servers
  116. 18:30 - MemoryThief |4F|: that's definate
  117. 18:30 - MemoryThief |4F|: second tier, is the administration tree
  118. 18:31 - MemoryThief |4F|: those who run and also have control over many of those same aspects
  119. 18:31 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Okay.
  120. 18:31 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And what about the people who merely agree that something should be done about it?
  121. 18:31 - MemoryThief |4F|: they also 'own' it by effect of actual control and they must all agree of the decisiveness of what happens
  122. 18:31 - MemoryThief |4F|: they're the third 'public' tier
  123. 18:31 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Who don't actually devote time and action to the cause?
  124. 18:32 - MemoryThief |4F|: no no not them
  125. 18:32 - MemoryThief |4F|: wait
  126. 18:32 - MemoryThief |4F|: the public tier are those who do participate and or throw their two cents in or cross referenace posts
  127. 18:32 - MemoryThief |4F|: they own it by activity and feel ownership of the forums by proxy and activity
  128. 18:32 - MemoryThief |4F|: their mark is left and they basically own that content
  129. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: as it's them who did it and they may refer to the top tiers of ownership in any case of discrepancy
  130. 18:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: In my example, the posters who don't even do that
  131. 18:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: are long gone
  132. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: AT THEIR DESCRESION
  133. 18:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: They came
  134. 18:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: They left
  135. 18:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: They never associated or came back, even after the email alert
  136. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: ok so THEN you have the last group
  137. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: the passive public tier 4th tree
  138. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: those lurkers
  139. 18:33 - MemoryThief |4F|: who only feel ownership by proxy
  140. 18:34 - MemoryThief |4F|: as they can digest the information and use it for their daily life and thus feel ownership by proxy to the information and the forum
  141. 18:34 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: In my example, they came for the meemz, and left for the other meemz.
  142. 18:35 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: There was no constructive discussion about the topic.
  143. 18:35 - MemoryThief |4F|: so you're talking about a 3rd tier ownership of content taking it from the REST of the group that their in, deny the lurkers of experiencing the content and at the same time swipe things from the top tiers without their immediate interaction with a stronger ownership than yourself on the topic
  144. 18:35 - MemoryThief |4F|: they outclass you by ownership and paying money to keep the community
  145. 18:36 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Who does?
  146. 18:36 - MemoryThief |4F|: you have no idea what that is like, and I've lived it I know what I'm talking about, your views are intersting in effect but it would be such a detrimental feature and difficult to impliment that it's really not worth it
  147. 18:36 - MemoryThief |4F|: those who own the server content
  148. 18:36 - MemoryThief |4F|: and access and power on the forums
  149. 18:36 - MemoryThief |4F|: tier 1 and 2
  150. 18:36 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: The feature could only be accessed by contacting one of their employees/moderators
  151. 18:36 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: At their discretion
  152. 18:36 - MemoryThief |4F|: their investment is much higher than yours in the whole scheme of things they should have a say in it no?
  153. 18:37 - MemoryThief |4F|: who would impiment it you?
  154. 18:37 - MemoryThief |4F|: you would be the only one motiviated enough to do it if they even agreed
  155. 18:37 - MemoryThief |4F|: you would need to find the ability for it to LOGICALLY be plugged in
  156. 18:37 - MemoryThief |4F|: before you an even go down the road to have somone program a broken society button
  157. 18:38 - MemoryThief |4F|: lol you're being rediculous
  158. 18:38 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I think you might be overreacting, but that's just me
  159. 18:38 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: In any case
  160. 18:38 - MemoryThief |4F|: I have my views ;3
  161. 18:38 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: I imagine they would advertise the function
  162. 18:38 - MemoryThief |4F|: i've been there before believe me ^^;
  163. 18:38 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And so the moderators would know about it
  164. 18:39 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And probably not be all too unwilling to use it if not hand it out often
  165. 18:39 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: And do I look like I have a pinch on Star Citizen's balls?
  166. 18:39 - MemoryThief |4F|: they can manually do it
  167. 18:39 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: It's a suggestion, not a manifesto.
  168. 18:40 - MemoryThief |4F|: giving the ability to the user isn't nessesary
  169. 18:40 - MemoryThief |4F|: it requires admin interaction and they have the ability to delete posts
  170. 18:40 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Define necessary.
  171. 18:40 - MemoryThief |4F|: that feature is there
  172. 18:40 - MemoryThief |4F|: ...
  173. 18:40 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Okay
  174. 18:41 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: So, why not, and at their discretion?
  175. 18:41 - MemoryThief |4F|: just ask them to delete it and let you recreate the same topic and see if the posts are the same.... they will be. case closed.
  176. 18:42 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Well gosh that's the same thing I was thinking of
  177. 18:42 - MemoryThief |4F|: philosophy way: if you ask the same group of people the same question twice, what are the chances their answers would change with the SAME EVIDENCE
  178. 18:42 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Except done in a different way
  179. 18:43 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Yes, I would like to see if that's true
  180. 18:43 - MemoryThief |4F|: but... it is.
  181. 18:43 - MemoryThief |4F|: because it's illogical for it not to be
  182. 18:43 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Often, it is.
  183. 18:43 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: But the point isn't to get the exact same answer
  184. 18:43 - MemoryThief |4F|: there is certainly a small factor of insecurity
  185. 18:43 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: It's to invite more people
  186. 18:43 - MemoryThief |4F|: and you would likely get different answers in the most resolute of perspectives
  187. 18:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: IF THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE ANSWERED
  188. 18:44 - MemoryThief |4F|: but in the wide scope it would be indistingushable of the answers you get
  189. 18:44 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: IT'S ABOUT VISIBILITY
  190. 18:45 - MemoryThief |4F|: it would be, and it MAY be new ones, but you'll only hear these points I'm making to you now in different ways over and over, it has bee decided long ago by people more wise than I and I agree with them despite how much effort I put into disagreeing logically
  191. 18:45 - MemoryThief |4F|: sorry charlie
  192. 18:45 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: The only point of requesting such a thing
  193. 18:45 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Would be solely for the new ones.
  194. 18:45 - MemoryThief |4F|: i gotta hit the bank and i'll be back
  195. 18:45 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Alright.
  196. 18:45 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Also, as thanks for the discussion
  197. 18:46 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Two funny comments waiting for ya to read
  198. 18:46 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: at the bottom
  199. 18:46 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Gotta refresh, tho. x)
  200. 18:46 - MemoryThief |4F|: just keep teh old topic... it'll bump if it has merrit; you can use this chat if you like ;p
  201. 18:46 - MemoryThief |4F|: ciao
  202. 18:46 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Merit doesn't factor into it if it's invisible.
  203. 20:33 - Valentine's Void the Indolant is now Online.
  204. 20:39 - MemoryThief |4F|: https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2zAxbHbhLLGrBu/source.gif
  205. 20:40 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: What...
  206. 20:40 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: IS that?
  207. 20:53 - MemoryThief |4F|: How stoned I want to be, after our discussion. I must smoke now
  208. 20:53 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: Better find some stronger stuff
  209. 20:53 - Valentine's Void the Indolant: We're gonna have much more rousing ones. x)
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