SC Interview (Partial)

Announcer - Live from the city center on Terra Prime, you're at Sunny's Diner. Sunny's Diner, the Star Citizen podcast for the rest of us. Joined as always by Gerar, here's your host - Sunny Ravencourt.

Some Asshole - Thank you, thank you, thank you. My name is Sunny Ravencourt. Welcome once again to Sunny's Diner, the Star Citizen podcast for the rest of us. I am joined by two very special people, um... one of them ah... slightly better looking than the other, ah... first I will introduce you to Gerar. G, how are you doing tonight?

Other Asshole - Don't waste your time introducing me, they know who I am - next.

Some Asshole - Fair enough, I am also joined by the VP, although, admittedly she says that nobody is higher in the department of marketing, the VP of marketing for Cloud Imperium Games, I am joined by Sandi Gardiner. Sandi, how are you doing tonight?

Sandi - I am doing great, and I guess, um... G, you're pretty good looking then.

Other Asshole - Um, I tend to think so, and my wife does too, but, not quite at your level... just not.

Some Asshole - Eyes to drown in, this guy has, don't let him be modest.

Other Asshole - You stop it.

Sandi - All right.

Some Asshole - Sandi, it's so nice of you to uh... to join us on the Diner. Um... so you the vice president of marketing for Cloud Imperium Games. Uh... I... Obviously the appetizer, we're going to get in to all sorts of stuff, but just uh... as a uh... as an introduction briefly to yourself before we uh... put you on the couch and dig into your... your past, psychologically. What is it the VP of marketing does for CIG?

Sandi - I actually do quite a lot. Um... and I'm not sure that it all comes under marketing. Uh... because we're a crowdfunded game, it's slightly different, in as much that we do customer service, it's quite personalized; we have concierge, uh... I run merchandizing, um... we're quite big obviously in community, which Ben and I actually work closely together. Um... Don't know if... it's more social marketing... I guess it comes under marketing.

Some Asshole - And you are also the host of the Next Great Starship.

Sandi - I am! Yes.

Some Asshole - Are you having fun with that?

Sandi - It actually... it's actually really good fun, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing because... um... I have my opinions, but I can't really...

Some Asshole - Yeah, you really don't give your opinions very much on this.

Sandi - No, I don't because uh... it's really the judges who, who should be doing that.

Some Asshole - It's funny, sometimes I can tell that you want to interject a little bit, and you say things like 'oh, so a complete workaround on that one then, right?'.

Sandi - Yeah, yeah. Um, actually, David Hobbins is a great judge on the last three. I had a really good time with him. And in Austin... (incoherent)

Some Asshole - I've got to be honest, it looks like you're herding cats. I'm just saying. I would love to see the outtakes, where you're like 'okay, look guys, come on, you know what I mean? Stop it.'. I would love to see that, because I know you have to do it, I can tell. I can tell.

Sandi - They are... They are super distracting, yes. 'Cause I would get all this dialogue that I would have to just spit out, and then, they're in the background just squeaking and squawking, and saying other things, Chris and... Chris Roberts interjects every five seconds 'No no, say this, say that'. I'm like, 'all right, everybody, on three'...

Some Asshole - I get the feeling that Chris Roberts may be the instigator for some of that stuff too.

Sandi - Yeah. Yeah he is. I mean, you need somebody to host it... to... keep the judges flowing along, and...

Some Asshole - Haha, herding cats...

Other Asshole - Herding cats

Sandi - It is like, yeah, it is herding cats... there is... David Hobbins was saying to me this morning, their artists are kind of like actors, so, that's definitely herding cats.

Other Asshole - That's funny.

Some Asshole - Well, tell you what, um... I think that it's about time... it wouldn't be any meal at Sunny's Diner if we didn't start with the appetizer, so, I'm going to go ahead and call this and say bring out the appitizer.

Announcer - Order up, appetizers.

Sandi - Okay.

Other Asshole - That's right.

Sandi - The appetizer is I'm guessing, myself? Um...

Some Asshole - Well no, I mean I... I would be happy to introduce you as the appetizer. It's uh, it's a little known secret here at the Diner that uh... while we record this live, uh, that Sandi can't actually hear our lovely waitress ringing out the appetizer, but I will be happy to ask you the question for the appetizer. Um, and it always is about, uh, yourself. So, tell me about your gaming origins, and go back to the beginning. What is your first gaming memory?

Sandi - My first gaming memory... um... by then, I might be telling my age... no, not really... I'm joking. Uh, a 386. We actually had a... my father's a professor, and we had visitors who came across from Sweden to stay with us and they were complete computer nerds... I think I was about five or six or so. And, um... I found it actually quite fascinating. Mathematics, I was always really good at, and physics, which is kind of interesting, considering I never took that up. Um... and then uh, my mother and I travelled a lot, so we went to Tokyo and Hong Kong, and... Tokyo, I don't know if you're familiar with an area called Akihabara? Which is basically all electronics, and it just used to be mind blowing, I mean, as a kid.

Some Asshole - Is it an area in Tokyo?

Sandi - In Tokyo, where it's all electronics, so I used to play these... they were little cards about the size of a credit card... Um... and it kind of looks like a Gameboy and you would insert the credit card into the back and I would play all sorts of games like, kind of like Street Fighter games... Um, I can't remember the names of them now, but um... kind of like League of Legends.

Some Asshole - Is that where they get the uh... so is the dexterity that causes them to wreak such havoc on the rest of the world later in life with gaming? Is that where it comes from?

Sandi - Maybe! I mean it's just if like... I remember as a kid it just being mind-blowing. I mean, you just couldn't get these electronics anywhere else, and I took this stuff back, um, to the Phillipenes and Australia when I was a kid. People were just going nuts over it. Like I would sell these things for like three or four times what I'd paid for them. People could get their hands on them.

Other Asshole - There's her marketing ability.

Some Asshole - Right. I was going to say. You may not be in to physics, but you learned, uh... you learned import/export at a young age.

Sandi - Yeah, exactly. Uh... yeah, amongst other things, I never had like colored hair, and you couldn't get your ears pierced unless you went to the doctor in Japan, so I used to bring over earrings and all sorts of stuff, so...

Some Asshole - Oh, so you were importing into Japan, and then exporting back to Australia.

Other Asshole - This is awesome.

Sandi - Yeah. Um... but yeah, I used to love... I mean you couldn't get me off that little um, Gameboy thing that I had. I used to... I used to love that, it was all different. But it was... it was mainly kind of Street Fighter stuff. I mean I... Then I kind of had a bit of a hiatus, as a teenager, from computers. Um... and uh... in college, I obsessively played Doom, with another girlfriend of mine who um, she was doing a physics major. And we just used to go crazy over that. I mean, um... it just takes... it takes up so much of your life.

Some Asshole - Now you've brought this up a number of different times and a number of different places. It seems like that's your go-to answer when somebody asks about video games is you talk about Doom. So, I mean... what kind of obsession are we talking about here?

Sandi - Um... you know, like I would say like, 6 PM until probably 5 AM? Five days a week?

Some Asshole - Wow!

Other Asshole - Yes!

Some Asshole - Did you say five days a week?

Other Asshole - That's what she said.

Sandi - Yeah. Yeah, basically. We, we... I mean, you didn't need to sleep back then. I remember those days, now I go 'Damn it, I need to sleep. This sucks'.

Some Asshole - Oh, I know.

Sandi - Back in the...

Some Asshole - I have a kid and I mean, if I'm not in bed by 10 then I'm regretting it, which is just pathetic, but...

Sandi - I never used to... I never used to need sleep. And I am perpetually kind of... um... I'm not uh... you know... I'm not lazy now, but I guess in college I was pretty lazy, and so... uh... I wouldn't do anything until like the last week. I would always like show up at like a week... when they... when they slated the exams, I would be like, 'Wow... what is... you know... wait, I don't remember this', and people were like 'Yeah, hello?'. You have the, the... the books... they're like this thick, and I would like go 'Oh my God'. Like instead of playing Doom for a week, I would do 6 PM until like 5 AM and like read every textbook. And then, you know, I did... I did all right.

Some Asshole - Now did you do your college in Australia, before moving over to the United States?

Sandi - I did. Yup, I got a um... what's called a first-class honors, it's kind of like a... Masters? Where you write a thesis, and um... it's classed as like a 1-A, a 1-B, so basically I got a 1-A, which is the highest one you can get. And um, I got offered um, scholarships around the world for Ph.D.

Some Asshole - Wow

Sandi - I had... yeah...

Some Asshole - And what was it in? ... Sorry

Sandi - It was in marine biology.

Some Asshole - In marine biology?

Sandi - Correct.

Other Asshole - Can I... can I just interject and say a smart woman that played Doom for 8 to 10 hours a day... I'm... I'm seriously going to have to lay down after this.

Sandi - Yeah she... ah... my girlfriend, she still plays video games like crazy, but she... she works... she's just one of those, you know, we used to do all sorts of like... Everything from like Red Dwarf to Monty Python to, you know... we were just such nerds. Um...

Other Asshole - That's not nerdy, that's awesome.

Some Asshole - No, that's nerdy, come on. We have to embrace it.

Other Asshole - No, no... dude, hold on. I was in the army for 11 years. I jumped out of airplanes, I served in combat and... I... too do this whole scenario... and uh, I... that's not nerdy, that's awesome.

Sandi - Yeah, I would call... yeah... yeah, okay... I mean, then, I mean... Me and my girlfriend were both geminis and she's just the one I just distinctly remember, because we would know all of the lines from all Monty Pythons, and uh, what else did we watch...? Like Fawlty Towers, all sorts of like...

Some Asshole - Fawlty Towers...

Sandi - Yeah, I don't remember it... you know, John Cleese obviously...

Some Asshole - Yes.

Sandi - Yeah. A lot of... a lot of English humor, we liked.

Some Asshole - Is that common for Australians?

Sandi - Yes. I think it's common for Australians. We're big into like, Star Trek, um... obviously Star Wars...

Some Asshole - See, now I grew up in Canada, so Fawlty Towers and Monty Python and things like that are very common for Canadians too.

Sandi - Yeah. Yeah, we just, you know everything like satirical, um...

Some Asshole - Is Australia a Commonwealth country or is that just New Zealand?

Sandi - No, we're a Commonwealth country.

Some Asshole - So you get to play in the Commonwealth Games? The little Olympics?

Sandi - Yeah, we do. Yeah.

Some Asshole - So you see, Gar has no idea what we're talking about here. There's like a whole other Olympics for a small set of countries.

Other Asshole - Well can I just say... you can't say 'little Olympics', that's like short bus comedy...

Some Asshole - It is!

Other Asshole - I'm just saying, don't say it like that... Say the 'smaller generalized Olympics' or something, come on man. Think about people's feelings.

Sandi - Australia is the biggest... um... per household... they have the most consoles of any country in the world.

Other Asshole - That country rocks.

Some Asshole - Is that right?

Sandi - Yeah.

Some Asshole - And yet they are constantly in the news for the... uh... the limitations and the censorship as far as gaming goes.

Sandi - Yeah, we... we are kind of a strange bunch. I'm not quite sure what that's about.

Some Asshole - How well is Star Citizen going to go over in Australia?

Sandi - Well, at this point it's been going really well. Um... I was talking to the organizers of PAX Australia, and they were saying like, of all the PAXes, the Penny Arcade Expos, Australia's the biggest purchaser of um... merchandise.

Some Asshole - Really?

Sandi - Yeah.

Some Asshole - The biggest purchaser of merchandise of all the PAXes?

Sandi - Yeah.

Some Asshole - That's pretty much the purpose of PAX. So I would say that they're winning, right?

Sandi - Right. Well, they... they do that for us... they are the third largest spend per person, of all countries.

Some Asshole - Really?

Sandi - We have 99 countries who pledge for Star Citizen.

Some Asshole - So would #1 be the United States?

Sandi - Yep.

Some Asshole - And would #2 be, and I'm guessing here, uh... Germany?

Sandi - Correct.

Some Asshole - Aha. G, would you have gotten that?

Other Asshole - Yes, I would have, thank you very much. I hear your condescending tone.

Some Asshole - I thought I would just kind of lord that one over you, but I'll trust that you say you would have said Germany. I mean I'm getting that from the... largely from the Next Great Starship... it seems like every other group is German, which makes a lot of sense with my, you know, belief that they're superior engineers.

Sandi - Yeah, it was pretty funny when Chris did the first press tour... um... in October 2012 before we launched the crowdfund, and he phoned me from Germany and he was like 'Well, you know how people say they're big in Japan', and he's like 'Well, I'm big in Germany'. 'Cause like, all the press, all the press brought boxes from 1990 to sign, and they were just beside themselves that was coming back to the industry.

Some Asshole - Oh, really? So they brought Privateer boxes and Freelancer and things like that...

Sandi - Yeah, he said they went... they went berzerk. Video, photos, signage... I mean we... we... Gamescom last year, I don't know if you saw the footage, but it was... it was bizzare. I was like, I kept trying to get on the... I just needed to use the bathroom... but I never got there... it was like three hours signing games, autographs, um, everything... people's t-shirts, visors... I was just... there isn't words... it was really something... else

Some Asshole - So were... I mean... I assume they were... they were recognizing him on sight then, over there?

Sandi - Yeah.

Some Asshole - That is, that is amazing. And that's gotta be a cool feeling for, uh... a guy like Chris Roberts, to be like able to, you know... He poured... you can tell that he pours such of... so much of his life into those games in the '90s, and then this far in the future, to come back and see that kind of impact on a whole foreign country has got to be a surreal experience.

Sandi - Yeah. I really hadn't quite seen what it was about until we went to Gamescom.

Some Asshole - Okay, so you went to college in Australia, you got a Master's in marine biology, and then at some point you ended up at UCLA.

Sandi - Yep.

Some Asshole - So, how... how did that happen?

Sandi - Well, I um... Where I wanted to go was the Galapagos Islands to do my Ph.D... off Ecuador... and I got accepted, they actually sent me an invitation, um... but then I got booked on a television show... um... a SCUBA diving show, going around the country, and um... somebody just said to me, 'Well why don't you do a business degree instead?'. Because I have all these other businesses going on, and they're like 'You're just really not cut out to do a Ph.D., what are you going to do? I can't see you stuck in a lab'. This was my... this was... my professor and head of the department, um, at my college. I said 'Yeah, maybe, maybe you're right'. And at that time, I had gone in there with dark sunglasses, this crazy, fluffy jacket, I mean I used to dress pretty loud, um, because I had a fashion company at the time as well. And um... I said 'Yeah, maybe you're right', so I... I applied for scholarships for a Master's in business in Sydney Australia? And um, I was accepted as like one of the youngest MBAs, and also because they take people from um... like I was the only one from a fashion and entertainment background. Everybody else was kind of finance and banking and uh...

Some Asshole - Which makes sense, yeah.

Sandi - Yeah, totally makes sense. And the first subject was marketing, and I just distinctly remember that... because I had no idea what they expected... and I basically put everybody's desks together and I had all these like, you know, Australian supermodels walk all over the desks in my fashion clothes that I designed and like... everybody was like 'What is going on!?'. Like, everybody was speechless, I was like 'Oh my God, is this not what you do?', I was like so... I had no idea, so then when I sat down and everybody was like 'Okay, that was... interesting'. Everybody else did this like, Powerpoint presentation, pie chat... pie charts and graphs, I was like 'Oh man... well... okay'. And then I applied at UCLA for... uh... to do the last part of it, because I was interested in entertainment, so...

Some Asshole - What was your thesis on in... uh... in business school?

Sandi - Um, my busi... Uh it was... it was international marketing. Um... um... moving in to um... Australia, moving in to the Asian markets. Um... At the time. Uh... and vice versa. We had a lot of influx of China into Australia at that point. And I think we actually um... implemented, like, new visas and stuff. I... I think there... I don't know, I've been gone so long, I don't know what it is now, but um... Yeah, it was basically international marketing.

Some Asshole - So you have not one, but two Masters then?

Sandi - Correct. Yeah.

Some Asshole - Wow. That's impressive. And I don't... I don't know uh... G, you're going to school right now. I assume that more or less every day is Australian supermodels walking on desks, right?

Other Asshole - I want to tell you something. You have no idea how awesome that would be, to have that happen one day in class. So, I got, you know, Sandi, for shock and awe, you... you definitely won that battle. I would have given you an A and told you I want to see you again next semester. That's what I would have done.

Sandi - Yeah. You're... yeah... the... the lecturer, she was female though, and quite conservative, but she still... she still gave me a high distinction, it was kind of interesting.

Other Asshole - Well I mean, you know, in thinking outside the box like that's awesome. And I love that. Again, going back to being in the military, I've always been a fan of thinking outside the box, kinda coming up with a new, you know, standard. And for you to put that together and bring that in... that, that's awesome. I'd dig it.

Some Asshole - Yeah, in law school a professor spilled his coffee once, that was pretty exciting. That's about all I've got.

Sandi - Yeah, yeah I did... I really wasn't... I guess after college I didn't do it... because it takes up... it takes up a lot of time, gaming does.

Some Asshole - You mean like 8 hours a day for five days a week?

Sandi - Yeah. Yeah, like it's a full-time job, that's 40 hours a week, right?

Some Asshole - And seriously, Doom of all games? Like is there a uh... a less gentle game than Doom? I mean, that's a... that's a hardcore game, you went right in to that.

Sandi - Yeah. I mean, like I said I'm a pretty extreme personality, so uh... I'm nerdy... I'm nerdy on one hand you know, I'm nice and fluffy... but uh, in the office they don't call me nice and fluffy. Certainly not on customer service. I mean I'm not rude, and I'm not mean, but um... I'm definitely... to the point.

Some Asshole - Is that what that... I'm sorry, go ahead G...

Other Asshole - I was going to say, Sandi, if anybody does say you're nice and fluffy, give them a really quick tiger paw to the throat. That's what I would... Rear naked choke for the win, you know.

Sandi - Yeah, I mean...

Other Asshole - Sorry, I'm obviously the violent one of the two, so I'll stop...

Sandi - Well... most Australians play sport. And um... you know I guess I put my... mine into playing video games.

Some Asshole - I've seen pictures of you with a surf board though. Do you surf?

Sandi - Yeah, I can surf. I'm a pretty decent surfer.

Some Asshole - I've surfed.

Sandi - I'm not great at things that take a lot of... um... physicality and height, and in Australia, women are super-competitive... um... at all sports. And that just wasn't my thing. So, playing computer games was more fun for me.

Some Asshole - Yeah, I dated a girl from New Zealand when I was in college, and she uh, pretty much put me to shame in the sports department. I think she was more or less disgusted by my love of video games, so... you two... you two would not have that in common, I would say.

Sandi - Yeah, no, I didn't really have that in common with Aussie women. Um... surfing, that's different, you don't need to... weight doesn't really, and stature doesn't really help you become a good surfer.

Some Asshole - Finesse.

Sandi - Yeah, just good balance. And... yeah...

Some Asshole - It seems like a little more casual than some of the Australian sports that I see them play. Especially the one where they're rowing? That... boat? There's like 15 people in a boat going through the surf?

Sandi - They make you... in Australia they make you do every single sport there is, and I think that's when I played my most... I was the nerdiest and played video games the most because I just... I wasn't good at that, I'm just like, I don't... I don't get why I'm doing this. I was so cr... I was crap, I was horrible at rowing. I just can't, not good at that. I don't know what it is.

Some Asshole - Well, uh... and that takes you up to... well I guess not necessarily to... I'm sure there was some time in between going to school at UCLA and then working for Cloud Imperium... but that's more or less your professional life, I mean at that point were you pretty much done with... with gaming until you got the call from Chris?

Sandi - Yeah, pretty much. I... I never really got into like, console gaming, um... I can't say I really... no... not really...

Some Asshole - So how did you get the call from Chris? How did you end up working for uh... for Chris Roberts?

Sandi - Well I'd known Chris for a long time, I've known him since I first uh... even when I was studying at UCLA I knew Chris... uh... And I remember the first time meeting him... on a film aspect... I just was like 'Wow, you are amazing... because gaming...', I mean he... I havn't seen somebody... I mean, I have a lot of friends... Like I said, my girlfriend was a major in physics, so they did all sorts of... crazy... formula and all this sorts of stuff... and Chris's coding is like... I mean the guy's pretty brilliant, it's quite impressive.

Some Asshole - Wow, you know back in the day... you, you pretty much had to be.

Sandi - Yeah, I mean, that just kind of stuck in my mind, and he's actually had the... the... idea for Star Citizen for a long time. Um... it's just he... I guess wasn't ready to... uh... create it, so to speak. But he mentioned it to me a couple of times. So, um... he was throwing around other ideas and I just said to him 'I think you should really try this one'. Just... Just the way that he pitched Star Citizen to me just... it wasn't called Star Citizen at the time, it didn't actually have any name... I said 'You should really give it a shot... to... to do it yourself. Why not?'. I said 'I think it's a really brilliant um... idea'. And I guess at the time uh... what was on at the time? I think Double Fine had just... maybe just done their crowdfund. And I can't remember if Project Eternity came right before we launched... maybe... in the timing. Um... and so Chris was... Chris said 'Well, do you think we could, maybe... go to Kickstarter or something?'. He... he kind of felt it was a little risky. Um, and I said 'Well, you know, you're... you're...'. What he... what he does is pretty unique, nobody else can kind of, do what he does, so... if no-one... if no-one appreciates you for Star Citizen then I'm sure you'll get a job... If you would like to do that... I'm sure somebody's going to give you a job if you don't want to go back into film and you'd really like to go back into games, but I think, I think if it speaks to me and, um... I feel like I've got a pretty good instict on what people like... Even I hadn't been a gamer for a while. Um... then we should give it a shot. And then he said 'Well, would you like to do the marketing? And come up with an idea for getting it out there?'. Um... and I said 'Sure'. So...

Some Asshole - And here you are.

Sandi - Exactly. I didn't really have um... a title back then, it was just kind of 'Help me with a plan, execute it, and let's just see where it goes'. It uh, actually didn't think that I would have a job with Cloud Imperium, so...

Some Asshole - Was you getting a title one of the stretch goals? Give Sandi a title?

Sandi - No... Well, I... It just kind of evolved, because I was doing customer service during the campaign, I would always be on Kickstarter... kind of interacting with the community and... there was a lot of... 'Well, she's a... she's a model or an actress'. Well, I've done so many things in my life... Look, I'm talking like it's over... Um... It was like, 'Wow, what does she know about gamers and the community...', I guess it... it's not like I really advertised... I didn't even get on LinkedIn until just recently, because there were so many people saying, 'Hey, join me on LinkedIn'. I was like, 'What is this LinkedIn thing all about? Okay, I'll get on there.' I mean as an actor or model, you don't need any of that... You don't just say 'Hey, I've got a Master's in business and international marketing, and uh... I wrote a thesis in marine biology, does that help?'. So, yeah, It just... that evolved into... I guess I got along really well with all of the like Razers and AMD and nVidia, PsiTek... Um... a lot of partners, which just started making good relationships, and I guess I was the default person because there wasn't any other person at the time. Um... so...

Some Asshole - You know this actually leads perfectly into the main course... um... which I think uh... that we're going to bring out right now, so let's bring out the main course.

Announcer - Order up, main course.

Some Asshole - So, going with the crowdfunding, the unorthodox financial structure of your company... well, not your company but the company that you work for, Cloud Imperium Gaming, which might as well be your company from the way that uh... the upbringing starts... uh, with such a... such a quiet start, um... and then through crowdfunding had such major success. How does... how does that kind of structure affect a marketing strategy?

Sandi - Um... Well... It's interesting in terms of... I'm always very mindful of the community... Um... I... For example... For example I flew to Manchester, I got this super cheap ticket to Manchester, and Chris is like 'Why don't you fly business?', and I said 'Well, I don't know'... I saw this $900 ticket and I thought 'Well, I just fly economy, because I don't want the fans thinking...', and he's like 'Well the fans don't even know... because you've got to be like, confortable'. I said like, 'Yeah, but, you know, I think um... I think it just shows them what you do'. Obviously there's people who say 'Well...', for example with the Next Great Starship there's people who say 'Well, is this what they're spending their money on?', um, but I put together a whole bunch of sponsors for that. So, we're not really spending much at all. Um... so it changes marketing in as much that I'd like, we don't really spend a lot of dollars in the way that other companies... spend on marketing. I get a lot of calls from, uh... this... you know there's always buzzwords... SEO... strategic something something... broadening your reach through the Google sites and things, and I'm a big believer that the community... um... speaks louder than all of those kinds of things. I think there's nothing more powerful than world of mouth... if my friend's going to say to me 'Oh my God, you have to check out this game, it's awesome.', then that's um... pretty much solved. Um... So, we have a really good conversion rate of people who show up to the site and register, and then pledge... much higher than um... any free to play or um... obviously any free to play that... that wasn't a very good argument... but um... That we do have a really good conversion rate of people pledging when they show up and see the stuff. So I'm guessing that is because people share their YouTube videos... um... they... there's the word of mouth, there's the Facebook, the Twitter, I mean there's... we have some of the old-school fans who are like 'Ah, I don't like those social... ways of uh... doing things'... But uh, it's kind of... it's free... Facebook's free. Twitter's free, um...

Some Asshole - Are you at a point with uh, with the game development that you're actively making a push to really try to increase the popularity of this? Or are you sort of taking a step back as the... as the early part of the game is developing?

Sandi - Um... I kind of go by instinct on it? In as much that I don't... I'm not like a pushy salseperson. So, I'd be the person you would see on the showroom floor that would be like 'Well, I believe that I have good product so I'm not gonna chase you down for it'.

Some Asshole - The product's going to sell itself.

Sandi - Yeah. And I feel like... my instict is that... you know we don't have enough of the game out yet for me to make a decent push. My plan was to a couple hundred thousand... actually a hundred thousand people, when I first made a plan for Chris, back in June 2012, was to have a hundred thousand people who were really evangelists for Chris Roberts who would kind of set the foundation of um... just a solid foundation of people who really love his work and love his games and will be there and keep... so when other people show up, they're like 'Wow, okay, this game's got credibility', and there's a foundation there of people who are interacting and having a good time and enjoying the game. But actually, we have a lot more people than I thought we were going to at this stage. And we have a lot of new people, and the demographic is actually skewed a lot younger than I thought it was going to be.

Some Asshole - Really?

Sandi - Yeah, initially, when we... when we closed the campaign our average age... um... and it's based on our sample, obviously, but we have huge sample sizes, more than probably political campaigns do, um... was in early 30s. Around 34, 33. And now it's in the 20s.

Some Asshole - Oh Wow! So a significant drop?

Sandi - Yep. It's a significant drop.

Some Asshole - Now Gerar, you're always talking about how you feel that this community is... is different than some of the other communities that you've taken part in.

Other Asshole - Right. Totally. Um, I think uh, the way that people react to any change is impressive to me from this community. Um... being, for instance I'll use SW:TOR for an example, or even WoW, um... In two instances, if you put something up, like say, for instance, the uh, hangar module, and then the dogfighting. Hangar module's out and everybody seemed to embrace it, there was a little bit of 'Oh my God this and that', but it was nice and then you know the dogfighting module, hey we've got to push it back. Now in a SW:TOR or a WoW scenario, they would have been burning bridges in their hometowns and setting fire to supermarkets, and, and you know beating puppies with hammers. I mean, that's how bad they are.

Sandi - Right.

Other Asshole - But in this community, in our community, the people are just... they just embrace it and are like 'Well, it's not ready.', you know, and that... that's refreshing for me. Totally refreshing for me because you just do not get that in this day and age when it comes to gaming.

Sandi - Yeah.

Some Asshole - I'm sorry... Sandi, if you had to guess, I mean... what causes something like that with this particular community?

Sandi - Well, I think... I mean I won't say that it's... I would say that it's the majority of the community who do that and we definitely, I mean, we have our moments, when something is released we have a few people who 'Woooah, you know, F this, blah, blah, blah, you should stop, what kind of marketing campaign are you running?', and they go on to me and they think that I'll know it's me, and I'm like okay well I run marketing so I... but that's okay, I don't take offense to it... Um... Sorry, there's just somebody...