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Jynx Council Discussion

shnen
Apr 21st, 2012
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  1. 1[15:41] <@NatCounciling> next one!
  2. [15:41] <@DTC> you know what
  3. [15:41] <@Steamroll> what's next?
  4. [15:41] <@Steamroll> :o
  5. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> jynx?
  6. [15:41] <@DTC> fuck tennisace, we need 9 people on the council
  7. [15:41] <@Steamroll> sure
  8. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> ok
  9. [15:41] <@DTC> yeah let's talk about jynx
  10. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> Jynx!
  11. [15:41] <+cbb> Jynx is
  12. [15:41] <@DTC> hold on I'm brb'ing for like 10 minutes
  13. [15:41] <+cbb> annoying
  14. [15:41] <@Steamroll> jynx has one true
  15. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> I don't find it *that* broken
  16. [15:41] <@Steamroll> threatening set imo
  17. 01[15:41] <@NatCounciling> its annoying
  18. [15:41] <+cbb> hold on as in
  19. [15:41] <+Luck> lol
  20. [15:41] <+cbb> stop discussing??
  21. [15:41] <@Steamroll> and that's np
  22. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> yeah
  23. [15:42] <+Djangoo> what
  24. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> np is what sets it apart
  25. [15:42] <+Keiran> Cinccino is an awesome check
  26. [15:42] <@DTC> uhh no
  27. [15:42] <+Luck> how is NP...nvm
  28. [15:42] <+Djangoo> the LK + 3 attacks set
  29. [15:42] <@DTC> I mean if you highlight me and expect to answer
  30. [15:42] <+Luck> ^
  31. [15:42] <+Djangoo> is the most threatening
  32. [15:42] <+cbb> it doesn't _need_ NP
  33. [15:42] <@DTC> lol
  34. [15:42] <+Luck> LO LK 3 attacks
  35. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> yeah
  36. [15:42] <@DTC> yeah it doesn't
  37. [15:42] <%Raseri> Cinccino is a shaky check
  38. [15:42] <@DTC> A lot of Jynx's checks are shaky
  39. [15:42] <+cbb> lovely kiss basically removes one counter from the game
  40. [15:42] <+Luck> has 1 counter
  41. [15:42] <+Luck> metang
  42. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> you mean
  43. [15:42] <+Djangoo> even then
  44. [15:42] <+cbb> thats the main thing I hate about jynx
  45. [15:42] <+Djangoo> LK
  46. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> one defensive counter?
  47. [15:42] <%Raseri> metang can lose to sleep hax
  48. [15:42] <@DTC> like they aren't very good outside of beating jynx
  49. [15:42] <@Steamroll> lol
  50. [15:42] <+cbb> sleep = death in gen 5
  51. [15:42] <@DTC> lk is gay as fuck
  52. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> quagsire can deal with offensive np
  53. [15:42] <%Raseri> spdef magmar
  54. [15:42] <+cbb> unless you have a sleep talker or magmortar
  55. [15:42] <+Luck> mad
  56. [15:42] <%Raseri> owns jynx
  57. [15:42] <+cbb> or MAGMAR
  58. [15:42] <+Luck> sdef magmar
  59. [15:42] <@DTC> nah there is a bit more than magmar and metang
  60. [15:42] <+Luck> loses to psyshock
  61. [15:42] <@DTC> grumpig
  62. [15:42] <@DTC> !
  63. [15:42] <+Luck> although magmar is the king
  64. [15:42] <+Luck> lol
  65. 01[15:42] <@NatCounciling> tbf
  66. [15:42] <+Luck> grumpig is
  67. [15:42] <@DTC> and flareon if no psyshock
  68. [15:42] <+cbb> grumpig is setup bait
  69. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> there are a lot
  70. [15:43] <+cbb> for the LK set
  71. [15:43] <+Luck> setup fodder for subcm
  72. [15:43] <+cbb> js
  73. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> of offensive checks
  74. [15:43] <+cbb> er
  75. [15:43] <+cbb> NP set
  76. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> to flareon
  77. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> *jynx
  78. [15:43] <@Steamroll> lol
  79. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> haha why did i say flareon
  80. [15:43] <@DTC> well it can thunder wave it and signal beam I guess
  81. [15:43] <%Raseri> mono-attacker is still the most common set and is still very good
  82. [15:43] <+Djangoo> well yes but
  83. [15:43] <@Steamroll> jynx hates sucker punch tbh
  84. [15:43] <+Djangoo> one will likely get swept
  85. [15:43] <@Steamroll> and mons that outspeed
  86. [15:43] <+cbb> well all the "checks" except for magmortar
  87. [15:43] <@DTC> sub lk is pretty good too
  88. [15:43] <+cbb> get slept
  89. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> there's a lot!
  90. [15:43] <+Djangoo> and an offensive mon asleep basically means death
  91. [15:43] <+cbb> and then you're one mon down
  92. [15:43] <@DTC> and combination of sub lk, np lk, or lk + 3 attacks is very threatening
  93. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> yah
  94. [15:43] <+Djangoo> also nothing offensive is switching in
  95. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> even the mono attacker set
  96. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> is threatening
  97. [15:43] <+Luck> I don't like NP without sub
  98. [15:43] <+cbb> the only thing that counters jynx
  99. [15:43] <%Raseri> jynx is one of the hardest pokemon to handle
  100. [15:43] <+cbb> is
  101. [15:43] <+Luck> and even with sub...meh
  102. [15:43] <+cbb> restalk metang
  103. 01[15:43] <@NatCounciling> but its not broken imo
  104. [15:43] <+cbb> which is pretty sad
  105. [15:44] <@DTC> monoattacking is annoying too
  106. [15:44] <@DTC> but it's a lot easier to handle
  107. 01[15:44] <@NatCounciling> because of entry hazard weakness + the fact that a few mons can counter it easily
  108. [15:44] <+Luck> well
  109. 01[15:44] <@NatCounciling> there are a lot of faster mons that can KO
  110. [15:44] <%Raseri> "counter"
  111. [15:44] <@DTC> nothing really counters it well
  112. [15:44] <+cbb> counter it easily?
  113. [15:44] <+Luck> that's because in NUthere are things like Lapras that are usable although
  114. [15:44] <+cbb> which ones can
  115. [15:44] <+cbb> "counter it easily"
  116. 01[15:44] <@NatCounciling> cinccino, absol if it doens't have a sub
  117. [15:44] <@DTC> there is no doubt that jynx has counters
  118. [15:44] <+cbb> except for champion metang
  119. [15:44] <%Raseri> switching into jynx is the problem
  120. [15:44] <+cbb> oh checks
  121. 01[15:44] <@NatCounciling> ^
  122. [15:44] <@DTC> however, most of them are bad at checking jynx
  123. [15:44] <+cbb> I thought you meant actual counters
  124. [15:44] <@DTC> err
  125. [15:44] <+cbb> ok
  126. [15:44] <@DTC> bad in general
  127. [15:44] <+Luck> yeah jynx is easy to check
  128. 01[15:44] <@NatCounciling> and that's the thing
  129. [15:45] <%Raseri> cinccino cant switch in at all
  130. [15:45] <+Luck> although lk + sub
  131. [15:45] <@Steamroll> cryo
  132. [15:45] <+Luck> is kinda problematic
  133. [15:45] <+Keiran> METANF
  134. 01[15:45] <@NatCounciling> a lot of offensive pokemon are hard to counter
  135. [15:45] <@Steamroll> makes a good check xP
  136. [15:45] <%Raseri> cryo without haze can lose
  137. [15:45] <+Luck> yeah
  138. [15:45] <%Raseri> will lose
  139. 01[15:45] <@NatCounciling> but easy to check
  140. [15:45] <+Luck> the problem is
  141. [15:45] <+Luck> cryogonal
  142. [15:45] <+cbb> really though my main problem is
  143. [15:45] <+Luck> can't do anything back
  144. [15:45] <+cbb> lovely kiss and sleep in general
  145. [15:45] <@DTC> Jynx isn't that easy to check
  146. [15:45] <@DTC> With Lovely Kiss
  147. [15:45] <%Raseri> regice can even lose
  148. [15:45] <@Steamroll> yeah true luck
  149. 01[15:45] <@NatCounciling> i mean
  150. [15:45] <+cbb> being really annoying
  151. [15:45] <+Djangoo> Lovely Kiss is what breaks jynx
  152. 01[15:45] <@NatCounciling> a smart player
  153. [15:45] <@DTC> If Jynx didn't have Lovely Kiss I wouldn't call it broken
  154. [15:45] <+Djangoo> imo
  155. [15:45] <+cbb> to the point of making it uncounterable
  156. 01[15:45] <@NatCounciling> won't let their counter sleep
  157. [15:45] <@DTC> But with Lovely Kiss, it's fucking annoying
  158. [15:45] <+Luck> that's theorymon
  159. [15:45] <+Luck> lol
  160. [15:45] <+Djangoo> a smart jynx user
  161. [15:45] <+cbb> yeah LK is the worst
  162. [15:45] <+Luck> if it had/didn't have x
  163. [15:45] <+Djangoo> will make sure the counter gets slept
  164. [15:45] <+cbb> also if you don't switch to your counter
  165. [15:45] <+Djangoo> so ok
  166. [15:45] <@DTC> I like when you're fighting a Wartortle
  167. [15:45] <+cbb> whats stopping it from killing the rest of the team
  168. [15:45] <+cbb> or setting up
  169. [15:45] <@Steamroll> it puts you in
  170. [15:45] <@DTC> and you have jynx out
  171. [15:46] <@Steamroll> a losing prediction tbh
  172. [15:46] <@Steamroll> switch out and get slept?
  173. 05[15:46] * Keiran is now known as Generousa
  174. [15:46] <@Steamroll> or stay in and get set up on?
  175. [15:46] <+Djangoo> exactly
  176. [15:46] <+cbb> yeah for all you know
  177. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> yeah
  178. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> but
  179. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> a lot of offensive teams
  180. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> handle jynx v easily
  181. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> imo
  182. [15:46] <+Djangoo> not every team is offensive
  183. [15:46] <+cbb> that is debatable
  184. 05[15:46] * Generousa is now known as Keiran
  185. [15:46] <+Djangoo> and they really really dont
  186. 01[15:46] <@NatCounciling> djangoo the majority are
  187. [15:46] <+cbb> imagine jynx comes in on say
  188. [15:46] <+cbb> emboar
  189. [15:46] <+Djangoo> unless everything is faster than jynx
  190. [15:46] <+cbb> then it kills something with lovely kiss
  191. [15:47] <+cbb> because sleep = death
  192. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> basically
  193. [15:47] <@Steamroll> zard can revenge nonscarf jynx
  194. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> ^
  195. [15:47] <+cbb> and then something else with ice beam/psyshock
  196. [15:47] <@Steamroll> and yeah jynx is basically
  197. [15:47] <@Steamroll> an auto one kill mon
  198. [15:47] <+cbb> also if it restricts a whole playstyle
  199. [15:47] <+cbb> aka stall
  200. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> but its harder to kill two +
  201. [15:47] <+cbb> from flourishing
  202. [15:47] <+cbb> then something is wrong
  203. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> cbb
  204. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> there are metagames
  205. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> where stall
  206. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> just doesn't work usually
  207. [15:47] <+Luck> well let's put it this way: a healthy metagame is reached when all the playstyles are equally viable and no pokemon is particularly strong against any other playstyle, so the fact that Jynx doesn't fare TOO well
  208. 01[15:47] <@NatCounciling> and mons are still allowed?
  209. [15:47] <+Luck> vs offense
  210. [15:47] <+Luck> is kinda irrelevant
  211. [15:48] <+Djangoo> yeah the reason offense is so popular is because its pretty much the only way to cover every threat
  212. [15:48] <+Luck> what kind of metas are you talking about nat
  213. [15:48] <+cbb> I have seen successful stall in all tiers
  214. [15:48] <+cbb> tbh
  215. [15:48] <+cbb> OU, RU, Ubers, UU
  216. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> yeah
  217. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> there are mons
  218. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> that handle jynx
  219. [15:48] <+cbb> even NU, but it still gets wrecked by jynx
  220. [15:48] <%Raseri> DW?
  221. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> on stall
  222. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> yeah basically raseri
  223. 01[15:48] <@NatCounciling> and lc
  224. [15:48] <+cbb> well
  225. [15:48] <+cbb> "handle"
  226. [15:48] <+cbb> unless you mean metang
  227. [15:48] <+Luck> ???
  228. [15:48] <%Raseri> lc is stallable
  229. [15:48] <+Luck> BW LC = stall
  230. [15:48] <+Luck> lol
  231. [15:48] <%Raseri> btw
  232. [15:48] <+cbb> LC is very stallable
  233. [15:48] <+Djangoo> what on stall beats jynx
  234. [15:48] <+cbb> and DW _can_ be stallable too
  235. [15:48] <+Djangoo> reliably
  236. [15:48] <+Luck> sleeptalk metang
  237. [15:48] <+cbb> metang django
  238. [15:48] <+Luck> !!!!!!!!
  239. [15:48] <+cbb> !
  240. [15:48] <+Djangoo> and isn't shit
  241. [15:48] <+cbb> bs
  242. [15:48] <+Keiran> crotang is good
  243. [15:48] <+cbb> argument invalid
  244. [15:48] <%Raseri> it depends on the set
  245. [15:48] <+Luck> metang strong
  246. [15:49] <+cbb> thats another problem
  247. [15:49] <+Ginku> what in the fuck
  248. [15:49] <+cbb> you don't know the set
  249. [15:49] <+Ginku> is a crotang
  250. [15:49] <+cbb> unless its too late
  251. [15:49] <+cbb> RESTALK HONE CLAWS
  252. [15:49] <+cbb> gg nu
  253. [15:49] <+Luck> lol
  254. [15:49] <@Steamroll> lol...
  255. [15:49] <+Luck> calm mind metang
  256. [15:49] <+Luck> does it get it
  257. [15:49] <+Luck> :(
  258. [15:49] <@Steamroll> actually
  259. [15:49] <+Keiran> ResTalk hone claws
  260. [15:49] <+Keiran> GG.
  261. [15:49] <+cbb> no cm
  262. [15:49] <+cbb> o well
  263. [15:49] <@Steamroll> if jynx isn't running sub
  264. [15:49] <@DTC> Jynx can sweep pretty easily
  265. [15:49] <+cbb> but yeah the 2 problems with jynx are
  266. [15:49] <@Steamroll> prankster shuts it down
  267. [15:49] <+cbb> a) unpredictability
  268. [15:49] <@Steamroll> easily
  269. 05[15:49] * Keiran is now known as Mafequeen
  270. [15:49] <+cbb> b) lovely kiss
  271. 01[15:49] <@NatCounciling> its checked by lickiy
  272. [15:49] <@DTC> lol prankster what
  273. [15:49] <+cbb> imo
  274. [15:49] <+Luck> >prankster
  275. [15:49] <+Luck> what prankster mons are NU
  276. [15:49] <@DTC> murkrow
  277. [15:49] <+Luck> murkrow
  278. [15:49] <@DTC> !
  279. [15:49] <+cbb> murkrow switches into psyshock
  280. 01[15:49] <@NatCounciling> murkrow
  281. [15:50] <+Luck> ???
  282. [15:50] <+cbb> and then its gg
  283. [15:50] <@Steamroll> liepard
  284. [15:50] <+cbb> !
  285. [15:50] <+Djangoo> what prankster user is switching into jynx
  286. [15:50] <+Luck> lolk
  287. [15:50] <+Luck> you paralyze the jynx
  288. [15:50] <+Luck> while you die to ice beam
  289. [15:50] <+Djangoo> or
  290. [15:50] <+Luck> lost 1 poke to para jynx
  291. [15:50] <+cbb> that would be a
  292. [15:50] <+Luck> amazing gameplan
  293. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> so?
  294. [15:50] <+cbb> fantastic trade
  295. [15:50] <+Djangoo> you get slept on the switchin
  296. [15:50] <+cbb> for me
  297. [15:50] <+Ginku> prankster taunt sucker punch murkrow
  298. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> that makes it
  299. [15:50] <+Djangoo> ??
  300. [15:50] <+cbb> js
  301. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> helle easy
  302. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> to check
  303. [15:50] <+Ginku> let's get it
  304. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> @ luck
  305. 05[15:50] * Mafequeen is now known as Keiran
  306. [15:50] <+cbb> in all honest though WHO AGREES
  307. [15:50] <@DTC> that's a good tradeoff tbh
  308. [15:50] <+Luck> lol ok
  309. [15:50] <+cbb> but yeah the 2 problems with jynx are
  310. [15:50] <+cbb> a) unpredictability
  311. [15:50] <@DTC> unless you're using stall
  312. [15:50] <+cbb> b) lovely kiss
  313. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> cbb its not that unpredicable...
  314. [15:50] <@DTC> or something that needs every 'mon it oculd get
  315. 01[15:50] <@NatCounciling> imo
  316. [15:50] <@DTC> could*
  317. [15:50] <+cbb> well
  318. [15:50] <@DTC> it's not that it's unpredictable
  319. [15:50] <+Luck> also remember that jynx could always switch out
  320. [15:51] <+Luck> of murkrow
  321. [15:51] <@DTC> it's that it can easily sweep
  322. [15:51] <+cbb> I've seen pokemon such as cryogonal
  323. [15:51] <+Djangoo> pursuit murkrow
  324. [15:51] <+cbb> being brought up
  325. [15:51] <@DTC> lovely kiss helps immensly
  326. [15:51] <@Steamroll> lol
  327. [15:51] <+Luck> lol
  328. [15:51] <%Raseri> jynx is also really weak to status
  329. [15:51] <+cbb> which simply dies to psyshock
  330. 01[15:51] <@NatCounciling> but you're also easily checked by offense
  331. 01[15:51] <@NatCounciling> also guys
  332. [15:51] <+Luck> pursuit thunder wave roost murkrow
  333. 01[15:51] <@NatCounciling> why are we bringing up
  334. [15:51] <@DTC> right, but that's offense
  335. 01[15:51] <@NatCounciling> stupid things
  336. [15:51] <+cbb> I have been running offense a lot on ladder
  337. [15:51] <+Luck> such an amazing set in this metagame
  338. [15:51] <+cbb> all the way to 1460
  339. [15:51] <@DTC> and most offense Pokemon struggle switching into Jynx
  340. 01[15:51] <@NatCounciling> lets keep it relevant and non sucker punch murkrow
  341. [15:51] <+cbb> and, no, offense does not check it easily
  342. [15:51] <+cbb> at all
  343. [15:51] <@DTC> Raseri, what do you think of Jynx?
  344. [15:51] <+Djangoo> because people suggest murkrow as a legit way to beat jynx
  345. [15:51] <@DTC> You use offense a ton
  346. [15:51] <+Luck> also another problem for offensive teams
  347. [15:51] <+Luck> is
  348. [15:51] <+Luck> outspeeding jynx
  349. 01[15:52] <@NatCounciling> also to the people who say jynx beats stall: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3462627 the threatlist for this p much
  350. [15:52] <+Luck> I mean, running 6 pokes that outspeed jynx isn't realistic
  351. [15:52] <@DTC> Yeah, usually Jynx will outspeed 2 mons
  352. [15:52] <@DTC> at least
  353. [15:52] <+cbb> also
  354. [15:52] <+cbb> most scarfers are beaten by jynx
  355. [15:52] <+Djangoo> well the thing is
  356. [15:52] <+cbb> and most unboosted pokemon outsped
  357. 01[15:52] <@NatCounciling> how so?
  358. [15:52] <+cbb> js
  359. [15:52] <+Luck> sub
  360. [15:52] <+Luck> and lack of bulk
  361. 01[15:52] <@NatCounciling> eh
  362. [15:52] <+Luck> I mean ice beam does a lot on most scarfers already
  363. 01[15:52] <@NatCounciling> i mean non sub sets are easy for scarfers
  364. [15:53] <+Luck> like LK + 3 attacks
  365. [15:53] <+Djangoo> LK / Ice Beam / Psyshock / FOcus Blast completely destroys that team mid game
  366. [15:53] <+Luck> but
  367. [15:53] <+Djangoo> provided you can get rid of hypno
  368. [15:53] <+Luck> not much can switch in
  369. [15:53] <@DTC> hey guys
  370. [15:53] <@DTC> SNEASEL!!!
  371. [15:53] <+cbb> also that team beats jynx
  372. [15:53] <+cbb> but is 6-0'd by emboar
  373. [15:53] <+cbb> good trade off
  374. [15:53] <@DTC> umm natgeo
  375. [15:53] <@DTC> If you look down below
  376. [15:54] <@DTC> You'll see that LO Jynx is a massive threat
  377. [15:54] <@DTC> to the team
  378. [15:54] <+Djangoo> lol
  379. [15:54] <+Luck> LO jynx 6-0s that thing
  380. [15:54] <+Djangoo> n
  381. [15:54] <+Luck> unless hypno can switch into ice beam
  382. [15:54] <+Djangoo> 5-0s
  383. [15:54] <+Luck> lolk
  384. [15:54] <+Luck> max sdef hypno with stoss
  385. [15:54] <+Djangoo> hypno beats it but hypno isn't /that/ hard to get rid of
  386. [15:54] <@DTC> lovely kiss / ice beam / fblast / psyshock does a number to that team
  387. [15:54] <+cbb> hypno CAN switch into ice beam
  388. [15:54] <+Luck> fire punch hypno
  389. [15:54] <+cbb> !
  390. [15:54] <+Luck> lol
  391. [15:54] <+Luck> and then it's forced to switch
  392. [15:55] <+cbb> but yeah I doubt theres a single team
  393. [15:55] <@DTC> quagsire has to keep itself at a lot of health
  394. [15:55] <+Luck> it's prone to crits and freezes
  395. [15:55] <+cbb> unless being overprepared as fuck and thus losing to everything else
  396. [15:55] <+Luck> it's u-turn bait
  397. [15:55] <+cbb> that isn't weak to at least one jynx set
  398. [15:55] <+Djangoo> how did that team get to #1
  399. [15:55] <@DTC> I agree that Jynx is easier to beat with offense
  400. [15:55] <+cbb> like REALLY weak
  401. [15:55] <+Luck> lol
  402. [15:55] <@Steamroll> my current team
  403. [15:55] <+Luck> yeah I'm wondering
  404. [15:55] <+cbb> easier, but you still lose ~2ish pokemon
  405. [15:55] <+cbb> if the jynx user doesnt suck
  406. [15:55] <+Luck> the team doesn't look that good
  407. [15:55] <@Steamroll> really relies on jynx not having sub
  408. [15:55] <@DTC> However, against defensive teams, and even against offense teams, it's a huge threat
  409. [15:55] <+Djangoo> also
  410. [15:55] <+Djangoo> it murders balanced
  411. [15:55] <+Djangoo> like
  412. [15:55] <@DTC> You can't deny that Jynx is not a huge threat to NU
  413. [15:55] <+Djangoo> completely murders it
  414. [15:55] <@Steamroll> DTC
  415. [15:56] <@Steamroll> wasn't jynx being used a bit in NU?
  416. [15:56] <@Steamroll> *RU?
  417. [15:56] <@DTC> You have to prepare a lot for it or run a heavily offense teams
  418. [15:56] <@DTC> Yeah
  419. [15:56] <@Steamroll> like enough to go bye bye?
  420. [15:56] <@DTC> It's steadily increasing in usage
  421. [15:56] <@DTC> alright, let's discuss jynx for about 4 more minutes
  422. [15:56] <+cbb> note that offense still doesn't have a guaranteed win against jynx
  423. [15:56] <%Raseri> ugh people are running weird shit today
  424. [15:56] <+Luck> also don't forget that CM jynx
  425. [15:56] <@DTC> then move on
  426. [15:56] <+Luck> can setup on like
  427. [15:56] <+Luck> all the bulky waters
  428. [15:56] <+cbb> just today I was swept by mono attacking ice beam jynx
  429. [15:56] <@DTC> fuck cm jynx
  430. [15:56] <%Raseri> jynx is broken, can we ban it?
  431. [15:56] <@DTC> it killed my regice
  432. [15:56] <+Luck> thanks to dry skin
  433. [15:56] <+Luck> lol
  434. [15:56] <+Djangoo> yes
  435. [15:56] <+cbb> see
  436. [15:56] <+Luck> LK sub CM jynx
  437. [15:56] <+Djangoo> enslave jynx
  438. [15:56] <+cbb> raseri knows his stuff
  439. [15:56] <+cbb> !
  440. 01[15:56] <@NatCounciling> i don't find jynx is broken
  441. [15:57] <@DTC> raseri plays offense a lot too
  442. 01[15:57] <@NatCounciling> -_-
  443. [15:57] <%Raseri> it beats every play style
  444. [15:57] <+cbb> ^
  445. [15:57] <+cbb> my point exactly
  446. 01[15:57] <@NatCounciling> ive never found it to be a problem
  447. 01[15:57] <@NatCounciling> at all
  448. [15:57] <+Keiran> Offense is the bets
  449. [15:57] <+cbb> even offense loses like 2 pokemon unless the opponent is a moron
  450. [15:57] <%Raseri> you run lapras or fast fire types
  451. [15:57] <%Raseri> or lose
  452. [15:57] <@DTC> ok, then let's all start using jynx to show that it's a huge threat to natgeo
  453. 01[15:57] <@NatCounciling> lul
  454. [15:57] <+Keiran> Most of my teams have Mag or Cinccino or both
  455. [15:57] <+cbb> yes
  456. [15:57] <+cbb> you get slept
  457. [15:57] <+cbb> and thats it
  458. [15:57] <+cbb> !
  459. [15:58] <%Raseri> and jynx can bypass its checks with ease
  460. [15:58] <%Raseri> and mag is relying on fire blast
  461. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> a smart player
  462. [15:58] <@DTC> +0 jynx's ice beam to cincinno: 95.89 - 113.35%
  463. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> won't let its counter go to sleep
  464. [15:58] <@DTC> (with lo)
  465. [15:58] <+Luck> lol
  466. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> ok dtc
  467. [15:58] <@DTC> fblast obviously OHKO's
  468. [15:58] <+Djangoo> a smart jynx player will sleep the counter
  469. [15:58] <+Djangoo> ???
  470. [15:58] <%Raseri> fire blast against sub jynx is asking for a miss
  471. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> leftovers?
  472. [15:58] <+Djangoo> so whats your point
  473. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> djangoo
  474. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> it could go either way
  475. 01[15:58] <@NatCounciling> its just a matter of prediction
  476. [15:58] <+Djangoo> precisely
  477. [15:58] <+Keiran> tbolt can probably break its subs
  478. [15:58] <+Djangoo> so saying that is pointless
  479. [15:58] <@DTC> Guys, this isn't the right way to look at whether a Pokemon is broken or not
  480. [15:58] <+cbb> yes
  481. [15:58] <%Raseri> yes but then it can set up more
  482. [15:58] <+cbb> prediction should never go into an argument
  483. [15:58] <+cbb> for all you know he might sub or np
  484. 01[15:59] <@NatCounciling> <@DTC> Guys, this isn't the right way to look at whether a Pokemon is broken or not
  485. [15:59] <+cbb> while you send in sleep fodder
  486. 01[15:59] <@NatCounciling> x100
  487. [15:59] <+cbb> or actually sleep your counter
  488. [15:59] <+Luck> >jynx
  489. [15:59] <+Luck> '-'
  490. 01[15:59] <@NatCounciling> please
  491. [15:59] <%Raseri> ban absol
  492. [15:59] <+Luck> bs I failed
  493. 01[15:59] <@NatCounciling> no greentexting
  494. 01[15:59] <@NatCounciling> ...
  495. [15:59] <+Luck> anyway
  496. [15:59] <+Luck> lol
  497. [15:59] <+Ginku> lol
  498. [15:59] <+Luck> kk
  499. [15:59] <@DTC> Look at its ability to sweep, how devastating it is in practice, how much it makes you over-prepare, what playstyles it does well against, etc
  500. [15:59] <+cbb> I mentioned all that
  501. [16:00] <%Raseri> way to easily, extremely. a lot, every
  502. [16:00] <@Steamroll> it's pretty much what it's good for
  503. [16:00] <+Luck> it does well against everything although I don't think it's that easy to sweep with it
  504. [16:00] <+Luck> it's more of a hole puncher
  505. [16:00] <@Steamroll> you barely need to build a team around it
  506. [16:00] <@Steamroll> for it to be good too
  507. 01[16:00] <@NatCounciling> 1) high ability to sweep 2) mixed results 3) not too hard to prepare 4) does well versus some stall teams w/o tspikes
  508. [16:00] <+cbb> it sweeps or breaks holes really fucking easily, is just as threatening in practice, you ONLY don't get donked by a particular set if you overprepare and it does well against ALL playstyles
  509. [16:00] <@Steamroll> eventually
  510. [16:00] <@Steamroll> jynx will go down
  511. [16:00] <%Raseri> lets all spam jynx so we know its broken
  512. [16:00] <@DTC> ok so let's just name some checks to jynx
  513. [16:00] <+Luck> lol
  514. [16:00] <@Steamroll> it's more of an opportunity to kill thing
  515. [16:01] <+Luck> metang
  516. [16:01] <+Luck> err
  517. [16:01] <%Raseri> magmortar
  518. [16:01] <+Djangoo> yeah imma use jynx on my next team
  519. [16:01] <+Luck> cryogonal unless psyshock
  520. [16:01] <+Djangoo> and rape
  521. [16:01] <@DTC> even if they're shaky
  522. [16:01] <@Steamroll> magmar
  523. [16:01] <+Luck> flareon unless psyshock
  524. [16:01] <@DTC> just mention them
  525. [16:01] <+Luck> magmortar unless psyshock
  526. [16:01] <%Raseri> regice
  527. [16:01] <@Steamroll> lapras to an extent
  528. [16:01] <+Luck> regice y
  529. [16:01] <+Luck> regirock too I guess
  530. [16:01] <@DTC> magmortar takes a lot from +0 lo psychic
  531. [16:01] <%Raseri> opposing jynx
  532. [16:01] <%Raseri> random lum mons
  533. [16:01] <@DTC> lol opposing jynx
  534. [16:01] <@DTC> lum berry golem is such a riduclious concept
  535. [16:01] <%Raseri> outspeed for the sleep :)
  536. [16:02] <+Luck> jynx walls jynx
  537. [16:02] <+Luck> true story
  538. [16:02] <@DTC> but it's quite funny
  539. [16:02] <+cbb> lol opposing jynx
  540. [16:02] <+Keiran> I use Lum Golem
  541. [16:02] <+cbb> I OHKO'd one with +2 psyshock once
  542. [16:02] <%Raseri> CBB you can win RW, i dropped 80 points
  543. [16:02] <+cbb> RW isn't
  544. [16:02] <+cbb> only about laddering
  545. [16:03] <+cbb> I laddered to pass django actually
  546. [16:03] <+Djangoo> and then I dc'd
  547. [16:03] <+Djangoo> fantastic
  548. [16:03] <%Raseri> random Destiny Bond mons everywhere
  549. [16:03] <+cbb> my other alt dropped 100 points because of bs
  550. [16:03] <+cbb> whats your point
  551. [16:03] <@Steamroll> DBond blim
  552. [16:03] <+cbb> anyway
  553. [16:03] <@Steamroll> is annoying as fuck
  554. [16:03] <+cbb> so the majority thinks jynx is broken?
  555. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> no.
  556. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> again
  557. [16:03] <@Steamroll> we're not voting yet
  558. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> we don't have to reach a *consensus*
  559. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> yet
  560. [16:03] <+cbb> I just want
  561. [16:03] <+cbb> a general opinion
  562. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> first of three meeting
  563. 01[16:03] <@NatCounciling> s
  564. [16:03] <+Djangoo> it was just a question
  565. [16:03] <+cbb> i know
  566. [16:03] <+Djangoo> lol
  567. [16:03] <+cbb> lol
  568. [16:04] <@Steamroll> tbh I put it in our final ballot
  569. [16:04] <@Steamroll> *I'd
  570. [16:04] <@DTC> Jynx will be on the major watch-list
  571. [16:04] <@Steamroll> it's really been a top threat even in the gore hype
  572. 01[16:04] <@NatCounciling> yeah ofc
  573. [16:04] <@Steamroll> just we were so gun ho about gore
  574. [16:04] <@DTC> Here, let's look at it this way:
  575. [16:04] <+Djangoo> well its a good gorebyss check too
  576. [16:04] <@Steamroll> that we didn't even consider it
  577. [16:04] <@Steamroll> it's a GREAT gore check
  578. [16:05] <+cbb> its ok
  579. [16:05] <+Djangoo> well
  580. [16:05] <+cbb> I run hp bug these days
  581. [16:05] <+Djangoo> I would say great
  582. 01[16:05] <@NatCounciling> jynx is a great gore check
  583. [16:05] <+Djangoo> but HP bug
  584. [16:05] <@DTC> actually eh
  585. [16:05] <+Keiran> Bibarel is a legit gore counter unless lo
  586. 01[16:05] <@NatCounciling> not many run hp bug.....
  587. [16:05] <+cbb> looking at it that way from now on dtc
  588. [16:05] <+cbb> !
  589. [16:05] <+Djangoo> I know me and cbb both run HP Bug
  590. [16:05] <@DTC> right now I'm the most concerned about jynx
  591. [16:05] <+Djangoo> and it should be more popular tbh
  592. [16:05] <@DTC> then bambi
  593. [16:05] <@DTC> then zard
  594. [16:05] <@Steamroll> I haven't seen to many hp bug jynx
  595. [16:05] <@DTC> hey, let's take a bit of a break
  596. 01[16:05] <@NatCounciling> ok
  597. [16:05] <+cbb> good idea
  598. [16:05] <@Steamroll> is ludi even broken?
  599. [16:05] <@DTC> the next pokemon we'll discuss is braviary
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