Pinsir OM Room Discussion P1

[22:16:44] Ranger Mike: WHY IS TS SUSPECTING pinsir
[22:16:45] Ranger Mike: ???
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[22:16:59] %Kl4ng: caps dude
[22:16:59] Kingslayer2779: cause
[22:17:09] Kingslayer2779: its really really centralzing right now
[22:17:19] Kingslayer2779: a third of the field is running it
[22:17:23] Peef Rimgar: because if you dont run something specifically for it you autolose
[22:17:32] Kingslayer2779: and its counters are a little low on the viablity side
[22:17:37] Ranger Mike: that can be said for a ton of things
[22:17:42] Ranger Mike: think about keldeo in ou
[22:17:44] ellipse: ^
[22:17:46] +insanelegend: Also has sped tier
[22:17:46] Peef Rimgar: yes but not to the scale
[22:17:48] +insanelegend: Set up
[22:17:50] +insanelegend: Priority
[22:17:51] Ranger Mike: no
[22:17:54] Kingslayer2779: pirority
[22:17:59] Peef Rimgar: also keldeo has been quicktested so its a bad argument
[22:18:03] Ranger Mike: every ou team needs a ekldeo check
[22:18:03] Kingslayer2779: keldeo don't have pirority
[22:18:12] Ranger Mike: that doesnt matter
[22:18:17] Kingslayer2779: the trouble with Pinsir is
[22:18:21] Ranger Mike: pinsir also has counters
[22:18:22] Peef Rimgar: mike keldeo was tested at the beginning of gen 6 lol
[22:18:23] Kingslayer2779: he beats alot of his so called checks
[22:18:30] Ranger Mike: that doesnt matter
[22:18:35] Kingslayer2779: with different movesets
[22:18:40] Kingslayer2779: then post on it mike
[22:18:44] +0Loyd0: so cant be walled
[22:18:50] Ranger Mike: it can be tho
[22:18:52] Kingslayer2779: we are looking for discussion
[22:18:56] Ranger Mike: bulky archeops is a champ
[22:19:04] +insanelegend: Not being walled wouldnt be problem
[22:19:11] +insanelegend: Except it can easily sweep teams
[22:19:14] Ranger Mike: also why did you post in the viability ranking..
[22:19:15] +0Loyd0: thats true
[22:19:29] Kingslayer2779: i posted on ladder
[22:19:33] Peef Rimgar: mike he didnt lol
[22:19:38] Jadekitten: prankster still works on sableye the turn you mega right
[22:19:45] +0Loyd0: yes
[22:19:47] Ranger Mike: yes he did
[22:19:52] Ranger Mike: wait nvm
[22:19:54] Ranger Mike: lol
[22:19:57] Peef Rimgar: mike show me a relevant mon that can beat it at +1 with rocks up j/s
[22:20:02] Peef Rimgar: +2*
[22:20:09] Ranger Mike: bulky archeops
[22:20:22] Kingslayer2779: last post on viablity rankings was lucina
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[22:20:26] Peef Rimgar: how bulky?
[22:20:26] Kingslayer2779: bulky archeops
[22:20:31] Kingslayer2779: is not meta releveant
[22:20:37] Kingslayer2779: imo
[22:20:37] +0Loyd0: what bulk though?
[22:20:42] Ranger Mike: it is still good outside of checking mega pinsir
[22:20:48] Kingslayer2779: asking for defeatist trigger with bulky
[22:20:51] +insanelegend: High to live 2 after sr
[22:21:04] +insanelegend: So checks
[22:21:15] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Archeops: 231-272 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
[22:21:27] Kingslayer2779: well
[22:21:27] Peef Rimgar: wait nature one moment
[22:21:29] +0Loyd0: rip
[22:21:40] Kingslayer2779: to be fair pinsir can't live the retalation
[22:21:41] Peef Rimgar: whats a +def nature
[22:21:47] Kingslayer2779: bold
[22:21:48] Kingslayer2779: relaxed
[22:21:48] Peef Rimgar: quick atack kills after sr
[22:21:59] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Archeops: 210-248 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
[22:22:12] Kumiromi: as someone who used chops in the 5th gen 252 ev bh, "bulky archeops" is an oxymoron
[22:22:14] Kingslayer2779: i mean defensive archeops
[22:22:20] Kingslayer2779: sure
[22:22:34] Kingslayer2779: that walls
[22:22:37] Kingslayer2779: so does regirock
[22:22:48] Kingslayer2779: the trouble is neither is that good
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[22:22:58] regirock: tfw you're highlighted whenever people are talking about legit mons
[22:22:59] regirock: ;_;
[22:23:04] Kingslayer2779: lol
[22:23:07] +0Loyd0: nice
[22:23:16] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Regirock: 282-332 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
[22:23:16] Kumiromi: if only the regi's got regenerator
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[22:23:29] +0Loyd0: lol peef 0 def ev
[22:23:30] Kingslayer2779: tbh
[22:23:38] GummyPotato: >2hko
[22:23:40] Peef Rimgar: who runs max def regi
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[22:23:47] GummyPotato: av regice in OU
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[22:23:48] GummyPotato: y/n
[22:23:49] Peef Rimgar: that just makes it useless otherwise lol
[22:23:52] Kingslayer2779: since regi murders after the first close combat
[22:24:03] GummyPotato: what if you weaken it
[22:24:08] GummyPotato: like a sabbage
[22:24:11] Kumiromi: unless rock slide troll misses
[22:24:12] +0Loyd0: oh didnt notice it was regi lol
[22:24:13] Kingslayer2779: yeah thats why regirock sucks
[22:24:18] Peef Rimgar: also if we're talking switchins it has none
[22:24:19] regirock: ;_;
[22:24:24] +0Loyd0: lol GJ KS
[22:24:27] Peef Rimgar: rkers sure but it still does damage then
[22:24:29] Kingslayer2779: cri
[22:24:31] Kingslayer2779: sorry
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[22:24:58] Peef Rimgar: lets be real if pinsir hits +2 something died
[22:25:01] Peef Rimgar: dies
[22:25:02] Kingslayer2779: lets go on the basis
[22:25:09] Kingslayer2779: that pinsir only gives one free move
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[22:25:14] Kingslayer2779: either it sets up to 2+
[22:25:21] Kingslayer2779: or it attacks
[22:25:25] Kingslayer2779: it can't do both for free
[22:25:42] Peef Rimgar: that is true
[22:25:50] Kingslayer2779: so regirock can tank the +2 cc and attack back with rock slide
[22:26:06] Kingslayer2779: but as previously mentioned regirock isn't that gud
[22:26:12] Peef Rimgar: but it misses bc im a hax god
[22:26:13] Peef Rimgar: duh
[22:26:18] Kingslayer2779: lol
[22:26:26] Kumiromi: it just cant tank several close combats from repeated switchins, which is why nobody uses da rock
[22:26:30] Peef Rimgar: tbh the only counter to it i would consider fully viable is bronzong
[22:26:42] Kingslayer2779: other counters i have found is Skarmory and rotom heat
[22:26:45] Kumiromi: which is unfortunate since i really like the regi,s
[22:26:50] Kingslayer2779: bronzong gets shreked though
[22:26:56] Peef Rimgar: rotom-h still loses with rocks tho
[22:26:59] Kingslayer2779: doesn't +2 cc 2hko
[22:27:03] Peef Rimgar: nah
[22:27:08] Peef Rimgar: chance to 3hko
[22:27:13] Peef Rimgar: + knock off chance
[22:27:21] Kumiromi: i wish zong got recover
[22:27:40] Kumiromi: would have made a good excadrill counter in 5th gen too
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[22:27:54] Kingslayer2779: +2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 187-220 (52.2 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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[22:27:57] Kingslayer2779: erm
[22:28:00] Peef Rimgar: oh
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[22:28:06] Peef Rimgar: i miscalced then
[22:28:07] Kingslayer2779: unless i did something wrong
[22:28:10] Peef Rimgar: oh im thinking neutral
[22:28:12] Peef Rimgar: nvm
[22:28:24] Kingslayer2779: 0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (134 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 112-133 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
[22:28:30] Kingslayer2779: can't do squat back either
[22:28:49] Kingslayer2779: hippo dies to +2 return if sr is up ifrc
[22:29:01] Kingslayer2779: and he can't do shit back unless Stone Edge
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[22:29:58] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 316-373 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
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[22:30:20] BanGWpl0x: hi
[22:30:24] Muffinman360: Did the 1v1 tour happen yet
[22:30:34] uc alt 6: it happened a while ago
Hack Guy joined
[22:30:41] Hack Guy: o/
[22:30:41] Muffinman360: Shit...
[22:30:42] Kingslayer2779: 0 Atk Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 200-236 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
[22:30:46] Kingslayer2779: sad calc of the day
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[22:30:53] BanGWpl0x: oml
[22:30:53] +insanelegend: Wow
[22:30:56] BanGWpl0x: balkbalkbalkbalk
[22:30:56] +insanelegend: That is sad
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[22:31:09] Kingslayer2779: 0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 272-324 (93.4 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
[22:31:14] Chopin Alkaninoff: This is diggersbyless tor?
[22:31:16] Kingslayer2779: that face you make
[22:31:19] Kingslayer2779: when it can live
[22:31:21] Chopin Alkaninoff: *tour
[22:31:25] Kingslayer2779: stone edge
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insanelegend has lost the match 0 - 3 against Eevee General
[22:31:47] Peef Rimgar: Kingslayer2779 is that real lol
[22:31:50] Kingslayer2779: yes
[22:31:57] Peef Rimgar: thats disgusting
[22:32:04] +insanelegend: ^
A tournament battle between Eevee General and notxipj has started.
[22:32:05] Kingslayer2779: assuming 10+ hp and 5+ def
[22:32:19] GummyPotato: >diggersby without stabmons
[22:32:26] GummyPotato: that's like taking the bread out of toast
[22:32:29] GummyPotato: wait wot
[22:32:30] Kingslayer2779: which is the result of the odd ball mega mechancis
[22:32:45] Kingslayer2779: so yeah i'v done research
[22:32:56] Kingslayer2779: hippo and doublade are shaky as fuq
[22:33:04] Kingslayer2779: zapdos and skarm are great counters
[22:33:14] Kingslayer2779: rotom-h is hazard dependent
[22:33:18] Chopin Alkaninoff: Wobbuffet with its 205/73 defense
[22:33:30] Kingslayer2779: wobbuffet can revenge
BanGWpl0x left
[22:33:33] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 168-198 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
[22:33:41] Kingslayer2779: well
[22:33:46] GummyPotato: who uses return on rotom
[22:33:50] Kingslayer2779: overheat
[22:33:57] Kingslayer2779: and i was theorymonning
[22:33:59] Peef Rimgar: oops
[22:34:00] Peef Rimgar: +2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 203-239 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
[22:34:14] Kingslayer2779: the worth of eq+moldy
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[22:35:05] Kingslayer2779: 252 Atk Mold Breaker Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 296-352 (94.2 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
[22:35:09] Kingslayer2779: so what if
[22:35:18] Kingslayer2779: you do that on switch in instead
[22:35:27] NanoEhh: yo i am back
[22:35:44] Chopin Alkaninoff: Remember that regular pinsir got +10 to attack
[22:35:52] Kingslayer2779: yeah i did that for the calc
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[22:37:04] Peef Rimgar: even if you dont kill on the switch quick attack
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[22:37:38] Peef Rimgar: also Kingslayer2779 run x-scissor for wobb y/n
[22:38:00] Kingslayer2779: seems legit
[22:38:06] Chopin Alkaninoff: Lol who run x scissors?
[22:38:18] Kingslayer2779: no one does
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[22:39:04] Kingslayer2779: but if i was the pinsir used faced with wobb
[22:39:10] Kingslayer2779: i would just set up more
[22:39:18] Kingslayer2779: and see if they went for the encore
[22:39:23] Kingslayer2779: its a 50-50
Eevee General has won the match 6 - 4 against notxipj
[22:39:44] Kingslayer2779: chances are they didn't and you got 4+
[22:39:47] Chopin Alkaninoff: Teg in tor?
[22:39:50] Kingslayer2779: then ohko them
[22:39:58] Kingslayer2779: unless sash
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A tournament battle between Eevee General and ellipse has started.
[22:40:21] ellipse: how long did i take?
[22:40:38] #Eevee General: that one was only like 10-15
[22:40:56] ellipse: i mean in between chlaanege and accepting?
[22:41:01] #Eevee General: oh
[22:41:02] Chopin Alkaninoff: also pinsir has important weakness to sr
[22:41:05] #Eevee General: 10 sec?
[22:41:12] Kingslayer2779: yeah he does need team support for that
[22:41:14] ellipse: actually?
[22:41:20] Kingslayer2779: which does merit discussion
[22:41:30] Kingslayer2779: i'm just not sure SR holds him back enough
[22:42:26] Chopin Alkaninoff: I'm sure it is. Its base form isn't 4x weak, but vulnurable to web and spikes
[22:42:27] Peef Rimgar: honestly a lot of time it isnt a factor
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[22:43:26] Kingslayer2779: well tier shift has access to the very best hazard removal
[22:43:44] • Kingslayer2779 does /dt delibird
[22:43:51] Kingslayer2779: jk
[22:44:03] Peef Rimgar: Lee is god, defog is everywhere
[22:44:24] Kingslayer2779: defog is really easy to get ahold of
[22:45:02] Chopin Alkaninoff: Pinsir also got issues with weather teams
[22:45:12] Kingslayer2779: Empoleon is one the of the better
[22:45:18] Kingslayer2779: defogers ever
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[22:45:26] Kingslayer2779: chopin pray tell
[22:45:27] Peef Rimgar: [22:45:02] Chopin Alkaninoff: Pinsir also got issues with weather teams
[22:45:32] Peef Rimgar: i strongly disagree lol
[22:45:37] Kingslayer2779: I mean Kabutops yeah
[22:45:52] @Dell: what exactly do you mean by "issues with weather teams"
[22:46:00] Chopin Alkaninoff: Most rain teams bring kabutops and thundurus
[22:46:18] #Eevee General: il did you save replay?
[22:46:29] Kingslayer2779: i've seen teams with neither
[22:46:32] Kingslayer2779: but yeah they do
[22:46:40] Kingslayer2779: and they are decent checks